April 3, 2026 • 8 mins
As we approach the Easter break —a time typically filled with texts, chocolate, memes, and quick check-ins— new research from 2degrees suggests Kiwis may be craving something more meaningful. The study reveals a modern contradiction: Kiwis have more ways to stay in touch than ever, but two thirds say meaningful conversations are harder to come by.
While texting and social media have become the default, a phone call still has the greatest emotional impact - 77% say they feel meaningfully better after speaking to someone close to them, yet only 15% regularly pick up the phone.
Always on, rarely connected:
- 67% of Kiwis say meaningful conversations are harder to come by despite having more ways to stay in touch than ever
- Nearly one in three (32%) are making fewer calls than five years ago
- 23% of Kiwis can't recall a single phone number apart from their own
How Kiwis use their phones to communicate:
- 68% say text-based messaging is their primary way of keeping in touch vs just 15% who default to a phone call
- When asked where their thumb instinctively reaches in a spare moment, 45% said social media vs just 5% who make a call, meaning Kiwis are nine times more likely to scroll than call.
Top reasons Kiwis don’t call more:
- Messaging feels easier (31%)
- Not wanting to interrupt (27%)
- Feeling too busy for a proper conversation (20%)
- Or a phone call feeling too awkward or unexpected (19%)
The case for calling:
- 77% feel better after a phone call with a loved one
- 59% say there is someone in their life they wish they called someone more often
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast
from News Talks, there'd be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Doogle Sutherland from Umbrella Well Being, our clinical psychologist is
with us this morning talking meaningful connections this Easter weekend,
get a Google.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Cure to Jack. Yes, it seems the perfect time, really,
doesn't it, to be connecting with people. I was just
listening to your interview with some Stephen k Amos around.
You know, the connecting power of humor around laughing, And
I think in this sort of day and age, the
more that we can get connections with other people, the better. Frankly,
I think it would help many many things in our
(00:44):
lives and in our world.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Isn't it of the digital age? We are more connected
than ever and yet somehow less connected than ever. It
is that this great tragedy of the of the technical
and technological innovation of the last few decades.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
One hundred percent, And this new survey from from two Degrees,
it says exactly that they say like to are the
key finding. Sixty seven percent of us would like will
say that a meaningful conversation is hard to come by.
So that's two thirds of us say that, and yet
(01:19):
we are nine times more likely to scroll on our
phones than to pick up the than to use the
phone and actually call someone. So we're kind of this
where it paints a picture of sort of us desperately
wanting human connection and just not kind of getting there.
We just sort of get distracted by the phone and
(01:40):
the well, not the phone. The phone's not the problem.
It's the scrolling, really, and you get tied up in
your social media and the endless scroll. You know, once,
can you ever get to the bottom of your chosen
social media platform? Probably not, but doing that at the
expense of actually calling people and just having a meaningful conversation,
(02:00):
which is I think so much more important than just
scrolling around on your social media.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
So I reckon there are a couple of upsides to it, like,
for example, I think one of the great things for connectivity,
at least in my experience. I mean, obviously it's easier
to keep in touch with people who are overseas and
you know, that kind of thing that was in the past.
But I one thing I really like is in our family,
we run a we have a WhatsApp chat. Yeah, we
can all kind of contribute to it, and it does
(02:26):
seem to me like it's really easy for the family
to have kind of family wide communication in a way
that we never were able to before, and that there
is something meaningful on that. Like even for example, like
we just share like silly photos or you know, like
in jokes. WhatsApp Chat is a really good place for
sharing in jokes, and that is meaningful connection. But like
(02:49):
you say, like the number of times I speak on
the phone compared to what we were down twenty years ago,
compared to just a text or something, Yeah, it's yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
I agree. I think those sort of things like the
texts and the and the and the social media stuff
are I always think they're a bit like postcards. You know,
back in the day, you would send a postcard and
it's just an update on what my life is like.
But it's not really that interactive communicate that interactive thing,
and sure it can supplement it. But interesting this two
(03:21):
degrees studies said that seventy seventy seven sorry percent of
us feel better after we've had a phone call with
a loved one. So it does have that payoff, I think.
And you know, if you've been catching up with you know,
if you've been monitoring people via social media, monitoring is
possibly not the right word, sounds of it sort of
nineteen eighty four US. But keeping up with them then
you've got more to chat about when you actually do
(03:42):
ring them and have a call. But it's and the
sad news too, is that it seems worse for gen Z.
Gen Z reports sort of higher rates of of having
meaningful conversations and even higher rates of feeling better when
they actually talk on the phone, and they probably scrolling
(04:03):
more than the rest of us. But I would say
when I read that, I thought it's easy to bag
on gen Z. But but I remember, and I was
talking about this to somebody in the office during the week.
I remember my first job when I was sort of
early twenties, and the anxiety that was filled with actually
having to make a phone call to somebody. It was like, oh,
(04:26):
and you know you'd write it down. My name is
Dougle and I am a clinical and you know it
have it all written down so that I could And
there's nothing better for social communications and reading out a scripted.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Fluid.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Yeah. So I think that's a bit of a generational thing,
and actually the survey results kind of backed that up.
But by saying that people often don't call because I
think I might interrupt somebody, or you know, it might
not be okay for them, or they might not know
who I am. But you know, you can always text
that stuff and you know, say hey is it you
know you could to talk now, or this is who
(05:01):
I am, and then follow it up with a phone call.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
So yeah, with the funny is that I would also
say that even though we don't speak on the phone
as much, when when you do, have good conversations, because
the barriers to communication so much lower than they, yeah,
cost and everything, you can actually like, I'll happily just
ring someone sometimes yes, and they'll be like, hey, I've
got like three minutes and then I got a shoot
(05:24):
and nobody like yeah, you're good, you know, And it's
not like in the past, where you know, people overseas
you'd have to shedule the time and arrange to talk
on the phone, and you know, it's a really big
and every second you're thinking, right, okay, this is costing
me a dollar a minute.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
And you can divestright into right because you know you've
you've perhaps been catching up with their life and you've
seen something, Oh look, you know they've they've done such
and such they've had such a big experience or or
this bad things happen. Actually I'll call them. And I
think that's our challenge, is actually giving people a ring.
And I think perfect to be talking about it over Easter,
right because almost all of us have got a couple
(06:02):
of days extra off where when when lots of things
are closed, everything's closed or most things are closed again
tomorrow on Sunday, and perfect opportunity, I reckon to actually
call somebody and look, I've had this experience of getting
into the habit. My mum is getting a bit older,
and I've started to get into the habit of giving
her a call every week on a Sunday, just kind
(06:25):
of a regular thing just to hear her voice and
for her to hear mine. It's actually been really nice.
I've really started to enjoy it. And last Sunday, I
think we spent like an hour and a half on
the phone just talking and it was like, good Lord,
who would have thought that? But you know, just that
will be my challenge to people this Easter weekend, as
if you know, pick up the phone and make it
(06:46):
if you're not sure, if you're not sure, if it's
going to be right, just like I'm a text and
say hey, you know it was going to call you
sometime this weekend, win suits and then give them a
call and see what a difference it makes.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Can you remember people's phone numbers? Can you do that?
Speaker 3 (07:01):
No? No? Have you ever tried to go in and
fill out of form or form online and they say
what's the phone number of your next of kin? Then
I say R A, C, H E L And what's
the phone I don't know what the phone number is,
but yeah, no, no, and you have to pull out
your phone and go two two what yeah? Two O? Yeah, no,
(07:25):
I can't think.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I can remember maybe three, including my own. I can
remember mine, my wife's and maybe my mum's as well.
That might be yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Well I don't know if it's helpful, but I can
remember my phone number when I was from when I
was about eight living in Dunedin, but it only yeah,
it had only had five digits. Yeah, yeah, but I
don't think it's used anymore, so it's no, it's not
particularly helpful at all, but it's it's embedded in my
long term memory.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
I've got that same feeling with our childhood phone number.
In fact, every time. I you know, even like we'll
go through stuff that's kind of survived, you know, the generations,
be it booker boards or tramping packs and that kind
of thing, and often and huge letters is burned in
with the most permanent, permanent markets as much after phone number,
(08:11):
you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Something like that.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Great.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I'm really glad that dad did this because yeah, we get.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Little We used to get printed out labels, I think,
and you could sew them, you know, your mum would
sew them into your clothes with so that it had
your surname and your phone number on the back of
your school jersey in case in case you lost it,
which you would ever did at some point. But no,
we don't do really that much anymore. So yeah, so good.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Hey, love that. Hey, thank you very much. Have a
great Easter weekend and we will catch you again soon.
Google Sutherland there from Umbrella Well Being.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live
to news talks that'd be from nine am Saturday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast
from News Talks, there'd be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Doogle Sutherland from Umbrella Well Being, our clinical psychologist is
with us this morning talking meaningful connections this Easter weekend,
get a Google.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Cure to Jack. Yes, it seems the perfect time, really,
doesn't it, to be connecting with people. I was just
listening to your interview with some Stephen k Amos around.
You know, the connecting power of humor around laughing, And
I think in this sort of day and age, the
more that we can get connections with other people, the better. Frankly,
I think it would help many many things in our
(00:44):
lives and in our world.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Isn't it of the digital age? We are more connected
than ever and yet somehow less connected than ever. It
is that this great tragedy of the of the technical
and technological innovation of the last few decades.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
One hundred percent, And this new survey from from two Degrees,
it says exactly that they say like to are the
key finding. Sixty seven percent of us would like will
say that a meaningful conversation is hard to come by.
So that's two thirds of us say that, and yet
(01:19):
we are nine times more likely to scroll on our
phones than to pick up the than to use the
phone and actually call someone. So we're kind of this
where it paints a picture of sort of us desperately
wanting human connection and just not kind of getting there.
We just sort of get distracted by the phone and
(01:40):
the well, not the phone. The phone's not the problem.
It's the scrolling, really, and you get tied up in
your social media and the endless scroll. You know, once,
can you ever get to the bottom of your chosen
social media platform? Probably not, but doing that at the
expense of actually calling people and just having a meaningful conversation,
(02:00):
which is I think so much more important than just
scrolling around on your social media.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
So I reckon there are a couple of upsides to it, like,
for example, I think one of the great things for connectivity,
at least in my experience. I mean, obviously it's easier
to keep in touch with people who are overseas and
you know, that kind of thing that was in the past.
But I one thing I really like is in our family,
we run a we have a WhatsApp chat. Yeah, we
can all kind of contribute to it, and it does
(02:26):
seem to me like it's really easy for the family
to have kind of family wide communication in a way
that we never were able to before, and that there
is something meaningful on that. Like even for example, like
we just share like silly photos or you know, like
in jokes. WhatsApp Chat is a really good place for
sharing in jokes, and that is meaningful connection. But like
(02:49):
you say, like the number of times I speak on
the phone compared to what we were down twenty years ago,
compared to just a text or something, Yeah, it's yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
I agree. I think those sort of things like the
texts and the and the and the social media stuff
are I always think they're a bit like postcards. You know,
back in the day, you would send a postcard and
it's just an update on what my life is like.
But it's not really that interactive communicate that interactive thing,
and sure it can supplement it. But interesting this two
(03:21):
degrees studies said that seventy seventy seven sorry percent of
us feel better after we've had a phone call with
a loved one. So it does have that payoff, I think.
And you know, if you've been catching up with you know,
if you've been monitoring people via social media, monitoring is
possibly not the right word, sounds of it sort of
nineteen eighty four US. But keeping up with them then
you've got more to chat about when you actually do
(03:42):
ring them and have a call. But it's and the
sad news too, is that it seems worse for gen Z.
Gen Z reports sort of higher rates of of having
meaningful conversations and even higher rates of feeling better when
they actually talk on the phone, and they probably scrolling
(04:03):
more than the rest of us. But I would say
when I read that, I thought it's easy to bag
on gen Z. But but I remember, and I was
talking about this to somebody in the office during the week.
I remember my first job when I was sort of
early twenties, and the anxiety that was filled with actually
having to make a phone call to somebody. It was like, oh,
(04:26):
and you know you'd write it down. My name is
Dougle and I am a clinical and you know it
have it all written down so that I could And
there's nothing better for social communications and reading out a scripted.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Fluid.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Yeah. So I think that's a bit of a generational thing,
and actually the survey results kind of backed that up.
But by saying that people often don't call because I
think I might interrupt somebody, or you know, it might
not be okay for them, or they might not know
who I am. But you know, you can always text
that stuff and you know, say hey is it you
know you could to talk now, or this is who
(05:01):
I am, and then follow it up with a phone call.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
So yeah, with the funny is that I would also
say that even though we don't speak on the phone
as much, when when you do, have good conversations, because
the barriers to communication so much lower than they, yeah,
cost and everything, you can actually like, I'll happily just
ring someone sometimes yes, and they'll be like, hey, I've
got like three minutes and then I got a shoot
(05:24):
and nobody like yeah, you're good, you know, And it's
not like in the past, where you know, people overseas
you'd have to shedule the time and arrange to talk
on the phone, and you know, it's a really big
and every second you're thinking, right, okay, this is costing
me a dollar a minute.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
And you can divestright into right because you know you've
you've perhaps been catching up with their life and you've
seen something, Oh look, you know they've they've done such
and such they've had such a big experience or or
this bad things happen. Actually I'll call them. And I
think that's our challenge, is actually giving people a ring.
And I think perfect to be talking about it over Easter,
right because almost all of us have got a couple
(06:02):
of days extra off where when when lots of things
are closed, everything's closed or most things are closed again
tomorrow on Sunday, and perfect opportunity, I reckon to actually
call somebody and look, I've had this experience of getting
into the habit. My mum is getting a bit older,
and I've started to get into the habit of giving
her a call every week on a Sunday, just kind
(06:25):
of a regular thing just to hear her voice and
for her to hear mine. It's actually been really nice.
I've really started to enjoy it. And last Sunday, I
think we spent like an hour and a half on
the phone just talking and it was like, good Lord,
who would have thought that? But you know, just that
will be my challenge to people this Easter weekend, as
if you know, pick up the phone and make it
(06:46):
if you're not sure, if you're not sure, if it's
going to be right, just like I'm a text and
say hey, you know it was going to call you
sometime this weekend, win suits and then give them a
call and see what a difference it makes.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Can you remember people's phone numbers? Can you do that?
Speaker 3 (07:01):
No? No? Have you ever tried to go in and
fill out of form or form online and they say
what's the phone number of your next of kin? Then
I say R A, C, H E L And what's
the phone I don't know what the phone number is,
but yeah, no, no, and you have to pull out
your phone and go two two what yeah? Two O? Yeah, no,
(07:25):
I can't think.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I can remember maybe three, including my own. I can
remember mine, my wife's and maybe my mum's as well.
That might be yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Well I don't know if it's helpful, but I can
remember my phone number when I was from when I
was about eight living in Dunedin, but it only yeah,
it had only had five digits. Yeah, yeah, but I
don't think it's used anymore, so it's no, it's not
particularly helpful at all, but it's it's embedded in my
long term memory.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
I've got that same feeling with our childhood phone number.
In fact, every time. I you know, even like we'll
go through stuff that's kind of survived, you know, the generations,
be it booker boards or tramping packs and that kind
of thing, and often and huge letters is burned in
with the most permanent, permanent markets as much after phone number,
(08:11):
you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Something like that.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Great.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I'm really glad that dad did this because yeah, we get.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Little We used to get printed out labels, I think,
and you could sew them, you know, your mum would
sew them into your clothes with so that it had
your surname and your phone number on the back of
your school jersey in case in case you lost it,
which you would ever did at some point. But no,
we don't do really that much anymore. So yeah, so good.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Hey, love that. Hey, thank you very much. Have a
great Easter weekend and we will catch you again soon.
Google Sutherland there from Umbrella Well Being.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live
to news talks that'd be from nine am Saturday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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