Andrew Hampton: SIS Director-General warns that national security challenges have intensified over the past year

The Security Intelligence Service warns our national security challenges are intensifying as geopolitical tensions heat up. 

Its report finds public and private sectors are being targeted by foreign states attempting to access our critical assets. 

It also suggests Chinese military intelligence has been using job sites to target current and former government officials holding secrets.   

SIS Director-General Andrew Hampton told Mike Hosking our connections and innovations make us valuable to foreign powers.  

He says in the past year, wars have broken out and a range of countries are engaging in geostrategic competition, negatively impacting the threats we face. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
News from our spy service. Things are not looking flash.
Our security threat is intensifying. I'm not sure if it's
news when they say the geopolitical upheaval is increasing the
risks we face in this country. Foreign states are targeting
our tech, there's interference in the Asper communities, and then
we get to the violence extremism. Andrew Hampton is, of
course the nz sas Director General, enders with us. Good morning.
Might the warnings that you issue this morning, are they

(00:21):
broadly applicable to all Western countries or can you isolate
out specific things for us?

Speaker 2 (00:28):
I think there's some general global trends that are impacting
on New Zealand, for example, increase foreign consperance, deterioration and
the global threatscape. But I think there are some things
particular to us. Our geographical location makes us a prime
site for people who want to establish satellite equipment in

(00:51):
New Zealand, and we've seen examples of that. We're also
located in the South pacifics which is becoming a recently
contested area. So those are some specific things to us.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
A really simple scale of one to ten, Because you've
been a round a while, how worried are you? Teen?
You're freaking out one. Don't worry about it.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Look, I still think New Zealand is probably one of
the safest countries to live in. But we say that
the thread environment is definitely intensifying, and that's been driven
by global events, and we've seen in the last year
Wars breaking out, a range of countries engaging in geostrategic competition.

(01:34):
So all of that is impacting in a negative way
on our own threatscape.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Our membership of the Five Eyes does that enhance our
standing in the world in that sense?

Speaker 2 (01:44):
On New Zealand gets huge benefit from being part of
the Five Eyes. We get access to intelligence, to technical
capabilities that we simply wouldn't be able to access otherwise.
At the same time, New Zealand makes a pretty unique
and highly valued contribut too that partnership.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
But it makes no good target.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
I don't I don't think so it's certainly the benefits
we get from it out weighs the disadvantage. What I
really want to emphasize, though, Mike, is everything that we
do in that Five Eyes context is on New Zealand's terms.
It's in accordance with our own priorities, our own legal requirements.
No one can ask us to do anything we can't

(02:24):
legally do ourselves.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
The interesting comment you may well, you made a number
of interesting comments, but the d Aspera comment interests me.
Which d Aspera? And how worried are you?

Speaker 2 (02:35):
New Zealand has a very diverse social makeup. We've got
people who have come from all around the world. Unfortunately,
we are seeing several states trying to exercise a degree
of control over people in New Zealand, often people they
perceive as dissidents, and we include case studies in this report.

(02:57):
Our biggest concern continues to be the people's republic or
and when it comes to foreign experience.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yea and getting worse.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
We what it says that there is progress being made
in countering foreign experience. I think there's a lot more
awareness at the political level than there has been previously,
but that tends to push it elsewhere. So we're worried
about foreign inference, targeting local government, targeting universities, and targeting

(03:28):
dash for community. So possibly not getting worse, but certainly changing.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
What about that bloke in Russia the other day. I'm
sure I'm not going to tell us about it, but
I mean, is that part of this, I mean, that's
that was a fine line between comical and I'm assuming
in some way real.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Well, n z sas we do have a foreign intelligence
mandate where a human intelligence agency, we do operate offshore.
In terms of that specific story, I'm not going to
comment on what may and not may not be operational matters,
but Russian state media is probably not the best best source.

(04:08):
I was pleased to see though that the Russian ambassador
did acknowledge that we are a capable agency who provide
value for money for the New Zealand taxpayer.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Exactly random question from me, but if you were looking
to cause trouble in this country, would you go after
Chris Pink disaffected politician, just been sacked, angry man. Is
that the sort of thing you target.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
I've got no reason to think that he would be
particularly targeted. But the general point we make in our
report is politicians, people of influence are targeted for foreign interference,
and when we come into that election period where people
are more available to the public, that risks increases.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
I appreciate your time. Andrew Hampton from the n z SIS.
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