Jo McKenna: Italy Correspondent on the dispute between Donald Trump and Pope Leo, growing rift between Trump and Giorgia Meloni

There’s astonishment at the Pope standing up for himself against Donald Trump. 

The US President accused Pope Leo of being terrible for foreign policy on Monday after the pontiff's criticism of the war on Iran and immigration crackdowns. 

Italy correspondent Jo McKenna told Mike Hosking the Pope's reaction was quite incredible. 

She thought he'd avoid the matter, but confronted it head on instead, showing he has no fear of Trump. 

But the fallout from the rift between the US President and the Pope is growing, as one of Trump’s closest allies speaks out.  

Italy’s Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni says she disagrees with his comments, meanwhile, Trump says Meloni lacks courage, in light of her failure to join the US attacks on Iran. 

McKenna told Hosking it's fair to say the honeymoon stage is over, but this could be a gift for Meloni, as her voters generally don't like her relationship with Trump. 

LISTEN ABOVE 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
In Italy Jode Morning, Good Money, make so the whole
christ like thing, truth, social, yad, YadA, YadA are globally
significant in the past few days.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
How's it played in Italy?

Speaker 3 (00:11):
Oh? I think it's been huge in Italy, as it
has been everywhere else. I think people are outraged by
what they've seen, particularly when you look at the party breakdown.
The supporters of Georgia Maloney, the more conservative right wing voters,
are very upset by this.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah, and so he's not one.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
And then we get to the business advance and how
she's Interestingly, she's distanced herself, hasn't she. I mean, she
was once that conduit between Europe and Washington and something.
She had that spell or that magic that Trump allured Trump,
and now it's it's all up and smoke.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Yes, indeed, I think it's fair to say that the
honeymoon's over. But this could actually be a gift for
Georgia Maloney when you think about that referendum loss and
her voters didn't like her relationship with President Trump. Very angry.
A large majority of people in Italy across the party spectrum,
angry about President Trump's action in Iran. So this could

(01:08):
actually turn into her favor as let's just see what
evolves in the next few months. But let's not wipe
her off just yet.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
And what do we make of Leo, Because I mean,
it's not the first time a pope has ever been outspoken.
But what he said and how he said it on
the plane the other day was quite something, wasn't it.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
I was astonished. And I think we've seen this building
for quite a while, haven't we, Mike, You know, this
sort of simmering tension. But I just thought it broke
open so openly this week's with such an explosion, and
his reaction on the plane was quite incredible. I thought
he would avoid it, but he confronted it head on,

(01:45):
and he said he had no fear of Trump and
would continue to preach the gospel. And when you talk
to the experts, they say, look, remember he comes from Chicago.
It's a tough city, you know, It's a city where
you have to stand up for yourself. He spent twenty
years in Peru at a time when that country was
very divided, so he knows what it's like to stand

(02:05):
up for himself. And we're going to see more of this,
I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
It's interesting explain this business with Israel, the defense agreement.
Are you guys seeing Lebanon as separate or all part
of it? And you're just against Israel per se.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
Yeah, it seems to me that in all the comments
I've seen that the Prime Minister Georgia Maloney has been
particularly critical of Israel's action in Lebanon, and I think
this is something that she seized upon, again reflecting what
her voters think. But it's interesting that they've taken such
drastic action to end this defense agreement with Israel. It's

(02:42):
been in place and renewed every five years since two
thousand and five. But Italy certainly wants to send a message.
And I think they've been upset too because the peacekeepers
came under attack in Beirut, so another reason to be
upset with Israel.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
And has Israel said anything about this.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
I haven't seen any reaction, but certainly it's been a
big issue in Italy.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
Okay, so the downgrade that's coming for the economy, I mean,
how much growth did you have anyway?

Speaker 3 (03:10):
Yeah, I think it was shaky at the best of times,
but now they've got to get their budget in order
to satisfy EU guidelines keep that budget deficit below the
three percent threshold. That's going to be tough because they've
got defense spending on the go and a lot more
expenses with energy prices.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Is their political fallout on this, because here's what's happening here.
I mean, everyone's being hit by the wall right economically,
but no one blames the government here. It's not the
government's fault that Trump decided to blow up a run.
So does Maloney get away with that or did she
have economic problems beforehand? And that goes back to her.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
I don't know that voters have yet made the connection,
but the latest polling certainly shows the main concern for
Italians right now is energy prices and protecting businesses and
families from rising prices. So that's going to be the
big challenge for her over the next year.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
All right, Joe, go, well, catch up next. Sense. They
appreciate it very much.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
The Israeli Foreign Minister, by the way, is it will
not affect them.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
What does that mean?

Speaker 1 (04:06):
Does that mean it will not affect them specifically, or
it will not affect the relationship their security won't affect
their security, so they're not talking about the relationship For
more from The Mike Asking Breakfast, listen live to news
talks it'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio