Neil Beales: Corrections Deputy Commissioner says voluntary segregation in prisons is on the rise

Fears for safety in our prisons may be pushing more inmates to seek out segregation.

The number of voluntary segregations surged 66-percent from almost 7,300 in 2018 - to more than 12 thousand in 2023.

Corrections Deputy Commissioner Neil Beales says it's largely driven by the perception of gangs and their activity.

He says our prison population is also growing - which affects people's perception of safety and the prison's ability to manage people.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We've got some stats from inside our prisons. We've got
a sixty six percent increase in the number of prisoners
asking for segregation. Twelve thousand separation requests were approved in
the twenty three twenty four financial year. This is in
a prison population of just over twenty thousand. Neil Bills,
as the Corruption Corruption Corrections Deputy Commissioner enders with us Neil,
very good morning to you.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Good morning Mike.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
That twenty thousand is a turnover, isn't it? Because the
musters at about ten am. I right in saying that
it is a turnover.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
The must it currently is ten six hundred and ninety two.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Okay. Is all of this gang related?

Speaker 2 (00:31):
No, it's not all gang related, but it is largely
driven by gangs and sourso largely driven by the perception
that some have coming to prison of what gangs can do.
So quite a complex mix. Yes, there is violence in
prisons and no doubt, and there are more prisoners in
prison than we have seen before so only o the
verast few years. That comes with a cost in terms

(00:53):
of people's perceptions of safety, and it also comes at
a cost in terms of our ability to manage the
numbers in the ways that we always have all the
complexities with romand security classifications, mental health issues, etc.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
And when you talk about perception, is that what some
of the requests are based on. I think I might
get gang therefore I need to be stuck in the
corner please.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah. Well, some people come into prison might be the
first time, there might be a low level offender. They
know that going into some of the more mainstream units
are quite heavily gang populated, they don't want to go
in there. They don't want to get into that situation,
so they immediately ask for voluntary segregation. Some prisoners get
themselves into debt from the gangs, and then they will
run from that debt. And there's also a hierarchy in prison.

(01:34):
I think Jared Gilbert in his report refers to that
as well, that you know, depending on the offense type
that you're in for, you might feel more threatened than otherwise.
So it's a very complex ecosystem in prisons, which and
it's very dynamics. So you've got a place like Mount
Even which is turning what thirty six thousand people through
their doors every year. You know, you could have a

(01:54):
unit in the morning which is being run perfectly fine,
everything's calm, there's no problems. You move one prisoner to
there from a different can it upsets the balance, and
all of a sudden in that afternoon you've got all
sorts of problems.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Which is what I was going to ask next. Is
it remand is high security or is it across the board?

Speaker 2 (02:10):
Across the board that we are see more romands than
ever before. So we're currently sitting in ten six hundred
and ninety two number and forty six of those are remand,
which is you know, that creates an immense amount of
flux through the prison system right across the state, but
particularly in those big urban areas, and that brings with
it some significant challenges because a we don't know the

(02:31):
people very well when they come in, they might only
be with us for a short time. We haven't got
a lot of time to do assessments on it. And
they moved through us quite quickly, and they can be
quite disruptive in that time as well, So very very difficult.
I take my hat off to the staff who work
in those units who do that because of exceptional complex work.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Exactly good on you, Neil, appreciate it. Neil Bial's Corrections
Deputy Commissioner and despite the ed campaign, who would do
the job? I mean, obviously people do, but goodness math.
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