Paul Goldsmith: Justice Minister on the rapid review being launched into the Ministry of Justice and its spending in the wake of the Russell Harrison revelations

A possibility some Ministry of Justice staffers could lose their jobs as a rapid review's launched. 

It comes after former Lotto host Russell Harrison was kept on the payroll for five years after he was arrested on money laundering charges, just days into starting his ministry job in 2021. 

Documents obtained by the Taxpayers Union reveal four other ministry employees are on leave while facing the courts or misconduct investigations. 

Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith told Mike Hosking consequences are on the cards. 

He says there needs to be accountability, as people need to have confidence the public sector values every dollar. 

Goldsmith says he's angry as anything —as most New Zealanders are— when they grasp the series of almost comical mistakes made over five years. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So the Ministry of Justice hardly enhanced the public services reputation.
Of course, So we've got this rapid review. It's underway
after they managed to have Russell Harrison on more than
half a million dollars in salary over five years, despite
the fact he didn't actually do any work. Paul Goldsmith
as a man who's called the review Justice Minister morning.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Good morning, Mike.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
So you've got an apology. Does that mean anything?

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Well, yes it does. It shows that the Ministry and
the Secretary takes it seriously. But obviously, you know, I'm
angry as anything, as most New Zealanders are when they
read of the kind of series of almost comical mistakes
made over five years that have meant that money has
been wasted, and you know it kind of undermines people's confidence.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
No kidding. So what's the point of a rapid review?
But I mean, it's not going to find out what
we already know. Isn't it that they're a bit useless?

Speaker 2 (00:49):
No? No, No, it's it's broader than that. I mean, look,
I've had high levels of confidence in the Ministry of
Justice and the Secretary for the last two and a
half years. We've made great progress on restoring law and order.
We've passed huge amounts of legislation that have made progress
sort of speeding up the processes of the court. So
I mean they've been working extremely hard. I've been working
them hard, and so you know, I have been confident,

(01:11):
but it's been shaken by this particular incident. And so
what I'm doing is saying, well, you know, let's take
a look at this particular instance, but also get some
external review of the operations of the court and make
sure that things are going properly, whether this is a
one off or it's more systematic of a deeper problem.

(01:32):
To do you worry it's a systemic problem, I do well,
I want to reassure myself that you know, the operations
of the court system, you know, the payments of reparations,
all those basic sort of things, the nuts and bolts
of the ministry have been handled properly. And I've had
some concerns in that area. And that's why getting a
couple of independent people and take a cold hard lookover

(01:54):
four to six weeks, come back and here we go.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Do you reckon? Anyone's going to lose the job over this?
Apart from Russell Harrison of course.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Well, you know, I mean that's a possibility absolutely. I
mean there needs to be accountability because you know, people
need to have confidence at the public sector really values
every dollar and there need to be consequences. But ultimately
that's something for the chief executive to determine.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
While I got you, did you read the Debra Chambers
piece in the Herald over the weekend? Read the Kim
dot concas.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
No, I haven't, but I usually enjoy her articles immensely.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Well, you wouldn't have enjoyed this because basically, she said,
the judicial process in this country is a farcical joke
and is set up for your Kim dot COM's basically
to take the mickey and never get extra diet. And
why do we run a system like that?

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Agree wholeheartly. I mean obviously this particular instance, I you know,
I can't comment on that and has to go through
the law as it is. But if I'm re elected
and we're back in government, I will certainly be changing
the extradition laws to reduce the quite ridiculous amount of
time that's been put into this.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Why didn't you change them over the last three years?

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Well, it wouldn't have affected.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
His I'm not talking about him, I'm just talking generally.
I mean, we've set ourselves up to be a joke.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Well yeah, you'd be're probably arguing because we're in urgency
all the time in Parliament. I've been putting through an
enormous amount of legislation in the justice space to restore
or and order, toughen consequences for crime, doing a whole
lot of things, and you know we'll get to it,
but we can't do everything all at once.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
All I appreciate it, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith. For more
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