The current Police Minister's standing by his criticism of the Police Commissioner while in opposition, and believes things have changed.
Andrew Coster will lead the new Social Investment Agency, exiting the role of Commissioner earlier than anticipated.
During the last Labour Government, National's Mark Mitchell slammed Coster's approach to policing, once suggesting it was like having cups of tea with gang members.
Coster's acknowledged there's a view he was 'soft'.
Police Minister Mark Mitchell told Mike Hosking the Commissioner has to serve the Government of the day.
He says in opposition he didn't agree with the Government's policy direction.
Labour’s Ginny Andersen believes he went above and beyond to do everything he could do while in the job.
She said that he did a great job in the role and had some really challenging things to deal with.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ginny Anderson is with us along with Mike Mitchell. Good
morning to both of you too. Good morning now, Jinny.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm still in shock. I'm still in shocked that you
actually played Katie Perry coming to tempt.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Yeah. It's a bit much, isn't it. We try and
be a bit hip and groovy every now and again,
just to go for the younger demo. Anyway, Now, what
were you meaning in your press release here? Sometimes tense
relationship between Costa and Mitchell. It was always going to
be hard for a dog handler and a detective to
(00:32):
see eye to eye on these big, over arching strategic issues.
Now what what sort of knife were you pulling out
of your sheath there and stabbing it into his back?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I think another all, I just think that they came
to the job front perspectives and that came out pretty
clear right from the start.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Okay, were your thoughts your thoughts on.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Well, firstly, that was a clear swe again clus it
didn't Jenerson make it personal clear swe at the door
the correspondent, Well, you can explain it to Jenny Butt.
And now that the correspondence out there and the dog
section is hilarious, they think that it's very funny that
an ex civilian worker from P and HQ is having
a swipe at the dog section are actually out there
(01:14):
doing that, Mark. And by the way, Jenny, if I'm
going to talk about public service, I'll tell you what.
I'll measure you up against sergeants who burge the oc
of the woman we dog section that said who I
was with last week we actually actually doing the hard
yards and doesn't really appreciate. I don't think the dogs
section really appreciate being criticized for the work that they're
(01:36):
out there doing. And by the way, the other thing
that's really puzzling about this whole thing, Mike, is that
I'm pretty sure Ginny Nson married an ex police dog handler. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
It just goes to the point, Mike, doesn't it that
I wasn't being critical at all of the dog section.
My point was they had different operational perspectives. And if
Mark so sensitive that he takes that to heart and
I apologize.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
So well, it was an unneess seried personal swap, Jinny,
and you've got a habit of doing those, so I'd
just say, just spook it down a little bit, doesn't I'm.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Sorry that your sense to him and I don't want
to hurt your feelings.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I didn't mean to apology and minutes past eight, what Jenny,
your thoughts? Your thoughts on Costa.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
He's a great guy, like he's intelligent. He worked incredibly
hard and I worked alongside of him when I was
in police when he was an assistant commissioner and irate him.
I think he's a good person who did a great job,
and he went above and beyond to do everything he could,
and he had some really challenging things to deal with.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Was one of them your government.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
One of them was a protest for sure, and I
think his comments around COVID and what that did asciata
and what that did to crime in New Zealand was
one of the big things that he had to grapple with.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
The interesting thing that he said yesterday, his most defining moment,
or his proudest moment, was where they cleared that protest out.
My argument would be he should never have let the
protests get to where it did in the first place.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
It's really difficult in hindsight to see operation what could
have been done better. I've heard, I mean from police
that when met big Dove come in, that big reign
that really made an impact on the tense that that
was an opportunity that could have been used. I mean,
in hindsight is twenty twenty vision of what could have
been done better. But I think whatever happens, both parliament,
MP's and the police all entt a lot from how
(03:20):
we could do things better next time.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Mark, is it fair to suggest, and particularly Luckson's comments
yesterday as well as yours, that you've either changed your
mind or you're so glad he's leaving that you couldn't
help yourself but being nice because what you did say
and what you said yesterday are two completely different things.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
No. I think in opposition was very clear that I
didn't agree the direction on which the government was taking
us as in terms of their policies in public safety
will rapidly as the commissioners set himself, he's got to
serve the government of to day. That is difficult, but
I would say that as the incoming government, and as
I released my very clear leader of expectation, which I
(03:56):
released publicly so that old country could see, he's responded
to that without a doubt, and he's put a shoulder
to the wheel and like you said to himself, we're
starting a sense of good early results from them. We've
got a long way to go. It's a lot more
we have to do, but you know, there's definitely been
a response.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Okay, Jinny Richard Chambers and is it jabonevon mix Skimming Ginny?
You know those two?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yes, I know them.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
They would they make good commissioners.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Either of them be great. They're both good, good police
officers who have done many years of operational police service
in the organization very well, different set of skills, but
they're both great.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Mark, Yeah, I agree, as I work very closely obviously
with Givin and Mike Rolls Burster. I don't know Richards
as well, but he's also got a very big reputation
in a lot of experience. And you don't get to
be an assistant commissioner or a deputy commissioner without having met.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
And so they will present you with a couple of options.
You and the Prime Minister will make the choice, is
my understanding.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yeah, yeah, that's right. So it goes to a panel.
Now the Public Service Commission runs that process. They'll come
with recommendation to myself which I then take to the
Prime Minister and ultimately the Prime minister and I make
the decision on who will be appointed as our next
police commissioner.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Fantastic, Jenny. Do you have a view on four year
terms or not?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Well, my recollection is I have for my sins a
week for Judith Colins. When I was in police she
was minister and that was when National FOOSK came in
in two thousand and eight and I'd been working previously
as a an in the Beehive and you and what
struck me was when you had a new government coming in,
it took them a full year to just understand how
(05:35):
the system worked. And I'm not being critical at all,
it was just people had never been ministers before coming
in trying to come to terms with it. Then they
had about a year to do stuff and then you
had a year of campaigning. So, especially when you're a
first term government, even harder when you're in a coalition
because you've got three different parties with three different agendas.
Trying to deliver stuff is becoming harder and harder. And
(05:57):
so I think that a four tune you will be
at a way for foot New Zealand to procrease in
see continuity over time.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
What do you reckon well, I don't accept for a
minute that Juith Collins needed a year.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
They all and I'm not saying labor as well.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
There's there's nonsense that I wish you shouldn't be a minister,
you shouldn't be a missile government. Well there, I look.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
At you guys. You're a year and now right, and
you've done a lot of stuff. Simeon Brown's announced more
things than he's actually done. I mean, that guy's held
more press conferences than he's put through legislation. And you're
still working through a lot of what you want to do,
and you'll need all of this one year plus you'll
need all of next and then at the end of
the next year, presumably you'll go, look what we've done.
Here we go, let's have an election campaign.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
The first part is in terms of continuity, and I
think favor I've sort of moved into four year space
as well in terms of getting things done, though certainly
in my portfolio we're getting things done within six feet state,
six st eight weeks. Changes were starting to take and
then I can point to those. So I just don't
expect if if you're seriously saying that you can't give
(07:11):
anything done in the twelve months. You've got to have
a look at yourself.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
On Okay, let me give you a couple of examples.
Where are the.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Fairies the fairies decision that's just that. Well, let me
give you some examples in mind portfolios.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Why are we doing one hundred and twenty gas on
the roads of national significant significance?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Yet do you see more beat officers on the.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Street were incredible. What I'm saying is point. I mean,
there's a lot of stuff you haven't done.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
You've been there a year, So I'm not saying that
or so you in it one minute. What I'm saying
is that I don't think the text parts of this
country expect a government to change and then everyone's sit
around for twelve months and not doing anything. There's been
an enormous legislation program underway that's now this lot done
in the first eight months of this government. There had
been some big fundamental changes made. We do have a
(08:03):
world class public service that will adapt and start to
deliver on that. I just think that to accept the
fact that Judith Collins came and then couldn't do something
in twelve months that's redisted before. Of course you could
so do it.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
In conclusion, both of you, both of you would favor
a four year Probably.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
You get more time, You get more time to because
it's a crazy rush and you see, you know, things
being done like, for example, announcements being made just that
sound good or for the face of it without actually
really delivering things. And if you're serious about making long
tum change on infrastructure, on important things like transport, you
need a longer period of time to deliver those properly.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Okay, would you, Jenny, while I've got you work from home,
would you do you broadly agree with what the government's
done or you don't mind?
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Well, yeah, it's a bit of a how many hours
from home because they don't know that for sure. I
did find it interesting that the day they don't meet,
but you know, they check out child poverty targets and also,
chron McKey, you put stuff through cabinet that loosens up
gun ranges that the stand up and cabinet is all
about making public servants go back to work. So I
think it's politics of distraction, to be honest, but people
(09:12):
definitely should go to work. I'm more concerned about the
six thousands who don't have jobs in Willington in the
state of the Wellington local economy as a result of that.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Mike Well, I just thought that, you know, it's at
the end of the day, working from home arrangements that
should not be seen as entitlement. There should be some
flexibility in the system, but it should be a genuine
agreement between the employee and the employer. I think that
there is definitely absolute value and being in the office,
building those relationships, getting mentoring from more senior colleagues around
(09:43):
experience and personal growth. I think there's a whole lot
of reasons why, very good reasons why that connection is
really important. And so, you know, and I completely totally
support what the Minister's done.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Good stuff, go well and we'll see next Wednesday, Mike Mitchell,
Ginny Anderson.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
For more from the mic O Mosking Breakfast, listen live
to news Talks at b from six am weekdays, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Ginny Anderson is with us along with Mike Mitchell. Good
morning to both of you too. Good morning now, Jinny.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm still in shock. I'm still in shocked that you
actually played Katie Perry coming to tempt.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Yeah. It's a bit much, isn't it. We try and
be a bit hip and groovy every now and again,
just to go for the younger demo. Anyway, Now, what
were you meaning in your press release here? Sometimes tense
relationship between Costa and Mitchell. It was always going to
be hard for a dog handler and a detective to
(00:32):
see eye to eye on these big, over arching strategic issues.
Now what what sort of knife were you pulling out
of your sheath there and stabbing it into his back?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I think another all, I just think that they came
to the job front perspectives and that came out pretty
clear right from the start.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Okay, were your thoughts your thoughts on.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Well, firstly, that was a clear swe again clus it
didn't Jenerson make it personal clear swe at the door
the correspondent, Well, you can explain it to Jenny Butt.
And now that the correspondence out there and the dog
section is hilarious, they think that it's very funny that
an ex civilian worker from P and HQ is having
a swipe at the dog section are actually out there
(01:14):
doing that, Mark. And by the way, Jenny, if I'm
going to talk about public service, I'll tell you what.
I'll measure you up against sergeants who burge the oc
of the woman we dog section that said who I
was with last week we actually actually doing the hard
yards and doesn't really appreciate. I don't think the dogs
section really appreciate being criticized for the work that they're
(01:36):
out there doing. And by the way, the other thing
that's really puzzling about this whole thing, Mike, is that
I'm pretty sure Ginny Nson married an ex police dog handler. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
It just goes to the point, Mike, doesn't it that
I wasn't being critical at all of the dog section.
My point was they had different operational perspectives. And if
Mark so sensitive that he takes that to heart and
I apologize.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
So well, it was an unneess seried personal swap, Jinny,
and you've got a habit of doing those, so I'd
just say, just spook it down a little bit, doesn't I'm.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Sorry that your sense to him and I don't want
to hurt your feelings.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I didn't mean to apology and minutes past eight, what Jenny,
your thoughts? Your thoughts on Costa.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
He's a great guy, like he's intelligent. He worked incredibly
hard and I worked alongside of him when I was
in police when he was an assistant commissioner and irate him.
I think he's a good person who did a great job,
and he went above and beyond to do everything he could,
and he had some really challenging things to deal with.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Was one of them your government.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
One of them was a protest for sure, and I
think his comments around COVID and what that did asciata
and what that did to crime in New Zealand was
one of the big things that he had to grapple with.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
The interesting thing that he said yesterday, his most defining moment,
or his proudest moment, was where they cleared that protest out.
My argument would be he should never have let the
protests get to where it did in the first place.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
It's really difficult in hindsight to see operation what could
have been done better. I've heard, I mean from police
that when met big Dove come in, that big reign
that really made an impact on the tense that that
was an opportunity that could have been used. I mean,
in hindsight is twenty twenty vision of what could have
been done better. But I think whatever happens, both parliament,
MP's and the police all entt a lot from how
(03:20):
we could do things better next time.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Mark, is it fair to suggest, and particularly Luckson's comments
yesterday as well as yours, that you've either changed your
mind or you're so glad he's leaving that you couldn't
help yourself but being nice because what you did say
and what you said yesterday are two completely different things.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
No. I think in opposition was very clear that I
didn't agree the direction on which the government was taking
us as in terms of their policies in public safety
will rapidly as the commissioners set himself, he's got to
serve the government of to day. That is difficult, but
I would say that as the incoming government, and as
I released my very clear leader of expectation, which I
(03:56):
released publicly so that old country could see, he's responded
to that without a doubt, and he's put a shoulder
to the wheel and like you said to himself, we're
starting a sense of good early results from them. We've
got a long way to go. It's a lot more
we have to do, but you know, there's definitely been
a response.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Okay, Jinny Richard Chambers and is it jabonevon mix Skimming Ginny?
You know those two?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yes, I know them.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
They would they make good commissioners.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Either of them be great. They're both good, good police
officers who have done many years of operational police service
in the organization very well, different set of skills, but
they're both great.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Mark, Yeah, I agree, as I work very closely obviously
with Givin and Mike Rolls Burster. I don't know Richards
as well, but he's also got a very big reputation
in a lot of experience. And you don't get to
be an assistant commissioner or a deputy commissioner without having met.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
And so they will present you with a couple of options.
You and the Prime Minister will make the choice, is
my understanding.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yeah, yeah, that's right. So it goes to a panel.
Now the Public Service Commission runs that process. They'll come
with recommendation to myself which I then take to the
Prime Minister and ultimately the Prime minister and I make
the decision on who will be appointed as our next
police commissioner.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Fantastic, Jenny. Do you have a view on four year
terms or not?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Well, my recollection is I have for my sins a
week for Judith Colins. When I was in police she
was minister and that was when National FOOSK came in
in two thousand and eight and I'd been working previously
as a an in the Beehive and you and what
struck me was when you had a new government coming in,
it took them a full year to just understand how
(05:35):
the system worked. And I'm not being critical at all,
it was just people had never been ministers before coming
in trying to come to terms with it. Then they
had about a year to do stuff and then you
had a year of campaigning. So, especially when you're a
first term government, even harder when you're in a coalition
because you've got three different parties with three different agendas.
Trying to deliver stuff is becoming harder and harder. And
(05:57):
so I think that a four tune you will be
at a way for foot New Zealand to procrease in
see continuity over time.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
What do you reckon well, I don't accept for a
minute that Juith Collins needed a year.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
They all and I'm not saying labor as well.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
There's there's nonsense that I wish you shouldn't be a minister,
you shouldn't be a missile government. Well there, I look.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
At you guys. You're a year and now right, and
you've done a lot of stuff. Simeon Brown's announced more
things than he's actually done. I mean, that guy's held
more press conferences than he's put through legislation. And you're
still working through a lot of what you want to do,
and you'll need all of this one year plus you'll
need all of next and then at the end of
the next year, presumably you'll go, look what we've done.
Here we go, let's have an election campaign.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
The first part is in terms of continuity, and I
think favor I've sort of moved into four year space
as well in terms of getting things done, though certainly
in my portfolio we're getting things done within six feet state,
six st eight weeks. Changes were starting to take and
then I can point to those. So I just don't
expect if if you're seriously saying that you can't give
(07:11):
anything done in the twelve months. You've got to have
a look at yourself.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
On Okay, let me give you a couple of examples.
Where are the.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Fairies the fairies decision that's just that. Well, let me
give you some examples in mind portfolios.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Why are we doing one hundred and twenty gas on
the roads of national significant significance?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Yet do you see more beat officers on the.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Street were incredible. What I'm saying is point. I mean,
there's a lot of stuff you haven't done.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
You've been there a year, So I'm not saying that
or so you in it one minute. What I'm saying
is that I don't think the text parts of this
country expect a government to change and then everyone's sit
around for twelve months and not doing anything. There's been
an enormous legislation program underway that's now this lot done
in the first eight months of this government. There had
been some big fundamental changes made. We do have a
(08:03):
world class public service that will adapt and start to
deliver on that. I just think that to accept the
fact that Judith Collins came and then couldn't do something
in twelve months that's redisted before. Of course you could
so do it.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
In conclusion, both of you, both of you would favor
a four year Probably.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
You get more time, You get more time to because
it's a crazy rush and you see, you know, things
being done like, for example, announcements being made just that
sound good or for the face of it without actually
really delivering things. And if you're serious about making long
tum change on infrastructure, on important things like transport, you
need a longer period of time to deliver those properly.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Okay, would you, Jenny, while I've got you work from home,
would you do you broadly agree with what the government's
done or you don't mind?
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Well, yeah, it's a bit of a how many hours
from home because they don't know that for sure. I
did find it interesting that the day they don't meet,
but you know, they check out child poverty targets and also,
chron McKey, you put stuff through cabinet that loosens up
gun ranges that the stand up and cabinet is all
about making public servants go back to work. So I
think it's politics of distraction, to be honest, but people
(09:12):
definitely should go to work. I'm more concerned about the
six thousands who don't have jobs in Willington in the
state of the Wellington local economy as a result of that.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Mike Well, I just thought that, you know, it's at
the end of the day, working from home arrangements that
should not be seen as entitlement. There should be some
flexibility in the system, but it should be a genuine
agreement between the employee and the employer. I think that
there is definitely absolute value and being in the office,
building those relationships, getting mentoring from more senior colleagues around
(09:43):
experience and personal growth. I think there's a whole lot
of reasons why, very good reasons why that connection is
really important. And so, you know, and I completely totally
support what the Minister's done.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Good stuff, go well and we'll see next Wednesday, Mike Mitchell,
Ginny Anderson.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
For more from the mic O Mosking Breakfast, listen live
to news Talks at b from six am weekdays, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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