It’s been a busy start to the week, and Mark Mitchell and Ginny Andersen are back with Mike Hosking to delve into some of the biggest political stories so far on Politics Wednesday.
They discussed Labour’s Future Fund policy, which is light on the details, Winston Peters’ idea to buy back BNZ, and the Government’s cuts to and plans for the public service.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Jenny Mark, Morning, Morning Mike. Now with this future fund, Ginny,
what's gone wrong here? What's with the big secret squirrel?
Until after the election? With your treaty problems and stuff,
Why can't you get this sorted out before election day?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I think we've been clear from the start that we
would not give the which ones would be in because
we needed that advice as being in government, that was
pretty clear. And to those market sensitivities include whether or
not there's a covenant on it, because in my day
we entreaty settlements. I think it's Section twenty seven. You
have the ability to put a covenant over a property
(00:36):
if it's a state owned asset, and so having access
to that information from cruisery is important to be able
to make well informed decisions before we put things into
a future.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Can you explain it to people who haven't followed this well,
So what's the department that would generate income for you?
Like would the Investment in New Zealand Investment Fund? Could
that be part of the future Fund or is that
completely separate?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
So any state owned asset attems to government is potentially
able to be put in And let's.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Make a simple one. So TV and Z could potentially
pay your dividend that could be in the future.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Fundure potentially potentially anythink that is a state owned asset
that's administered under that act and that pays a dividend
to government, and you need to take advice as to
what can come in or not because there will be implications.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Threaty link at TV and ZB potentially that would prevent
you from putting them in that fund. I mean, what
is it that's been committed to that would stop that happening.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Probably not TV and Z unless they own property. So
in my time working as a negotiator for the Office
of Treaty Settlements, one of the abilities of that E
we can do is I think it's pretty sure it's
Section twenty seven that you can place a covenant over
a state owned asset and so that's unable to be
sold or anything you know, transferred until you're engaged with
(01:53):
that EB and that will prevent and so I think
you need some Treasury advice on first of all, does
that have a covenant on it or not? And also
what happens if you lift that or go around that,
So in order to not make decisions that further expose.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Our country to risk.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
We want to be able to do all of that
homework to make sure it's in place.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Should should remind this, should remind people how bad labor are.
This is their corner stone.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Really, Okay, that's a surprise that you said that.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Well, on Ginny, you can you can't say who's going
into it, you can't say how many dividends you're going
to guess, and you can't say how you're going to
replace those dividends to fund health, education and police. It
is ridiculous. It is a complete you're saying you're and
you're telling people that you're not going to tell them
to after the election. It is a It is a comical.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
It is what some of those companies, I mean some
of those companies we see even in those factory closures,
whether or we see big New Zealand companies that are
earning a good capital for people, that are earning paying.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Good wages, whether they're sy.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Steamer, whether their picks peanut butter.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
We've seen forty two you can name.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
It detail company.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
You can't do that go off shore and take what's
some keepy jobs and we want to keep them here.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
We can.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
So the Future Fund would buy I wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Buy them, but it would provide deeper capital markets here
in New Zealand, and that's been one of the big
problems with our economy over time.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
How can you say that? Explain your polity? You know
the capital markets like detail, don't you? You know that
they like to have detail. Where's the detail? Jimmy no
I said.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
All I said was we need deeper capital here in
New Zealand to the same under to grow to it.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
We don't know what we're buying now, but surely as
a politician you can understand if you don't know what
you're voting for, who to vote for it.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Well, I'm unlike National We're actually going to do the
work instead of cut for tobacco company now where they
can't pay for the fairies and they can't pay for
things because they didn't do the homework. We're not going
to fall into those famous We won't make.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
The series out billions of dollars.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I think Jenny David makes a good point in the
text ee ability to Covenant is limited. I think it's
first writer refusal and from memory. I think that's right,
isn't it? So you're going to sell something? They go, yeah,
we either wanted or don't. Isn't that right?
Speaker 3 (04:16):
That's right?
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, well what are you worried about them? Why don't
you get on with your policy?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Given covenant on it?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
What's your?
Speaker 3 (04:25):
What's your?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
And it's funny though I went on.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
The national Past of the day. No policies on there
either something no one's talking about.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
No policy it out, We've we've rolled out heats of policies.
You've just you've just.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
A posted is done. There's no election policy, Mark, not one.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
In all fairness, I'm sure that Chippy's slipping peanut butter
on his toast, on his beautiful toaster.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Up what you're going to say? Where's he going to
slap a peanut butter? Mark?
Speaker 5 (04:56):
Are you?
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I don't want you to make policy on the hoof here, Jenny,
God forbid? But is the one percent of public service
so one percent of the population.
Speaker 5 (05:06):
Would you reverse that or not?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
I'm not committing to reversing it, but we deeply consumed
about those jobs and everyone. I'm not going to say
that now because I'm not the Minister of Finance and
I haven't got the budget in front of me yet,
so I can't make that commitment. But it is important
to note that people said of sometimes think that these
are Wellington bureaucrats sitting at a disk. These are customs workers,
(05:32):
these are health workers. These are people on the frontline
of New Zealand. People will lose their jobs. We've gone
through No they am, they cannot. We've looked at those numbers.
We think frontline will go on those numbers.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
Even though they said they weren't going to go. You can't.
You can't go.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Last time they did.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
They said that last time. Last last time we're in government,
we were we had a very good record of making
sure that all of our focus in support when to
frontline services delivered to qywis. Yes, we have got absolutely
outstanding public servants on one myself, But the reality of
it is this jinny previous guilt. Under the previous government
(06:12):
you added sixteen thousand public servants and guess what happened?
Hospital waiting time, sword student achievement plummeted, thirty percent, increase
in violent crime. So numbers do not.
Speaker 6 (06:23):
Equate to better public services for the public focused on
doing Can I ask this the meeting that was held
in Queenstown a couple of days ago, So you don't
have any policies, Jenny, And this is your problem at
the moment.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
It's getting worse by the week, as far as I
can work out as the closer we get to the election.
So Megan's at the meeting and she goes The first
thing she says is, I'm not here to announce a policy.
So what's the point of having meetings and having discussions
if your only contribution or the labour pay is anty
contribution to something? Is we haven't announced or I'm not
going to announce a policy because increasingly we want to
kind of know what's going on.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Well, I think King, we need to know whether is
going to be a feature or not. Because the government
did announce it. You're killing they then they've backed away
from your book, and so that happening or not.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
You're not saying anything. All you're telling me is the
stuff you won't do. We know what you're not going
to do. When do we get to know what you
are going to do? So when I go to an
energy meeting and I go, what's your energy policy? Megan
doesn't go, well, I'm not going to announce that today.
Otherwise I've wasted my time.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
All we've said right early on that we want the
budget in place to know what the books are before
we'll commit to large scale policy. And that's important to
do that so that we don't make promises we can't keep,
and like what National have done, I want to make
sure what funded actually can here.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
So the week after the budget we will be getting policy.
Is that fair or no?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
I can't say that. I'm not the energy spokesperson, but
I know they're working on all those areas now and
once we have the books and we've done the analysis,
where will have the ability to make policies.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
But I've got one more point.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
I would like what more points on the public servants.
It's important.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
I'd like to make those shout outs. I'd like one
shout I never do them. I would like to do
a shout out to garyl from High five Maintenance in Newlands.
Not High five Maintenance.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
They do all your.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Handy helping outwork, lawns, you name it, rental properties. He
is sixty. He has his weekly petrol bill went from
a monthly petrol bill went from seven hundred to fourteen
hundred and he's had to let a couple of his
guys go because of that. But what's made it worse
is because of the job cuts. In Wellington, people were
(08:29):
getting their lawns cut maybe once a week. They've changed
that to once a month or not at all, and
they're delaying maintenance on their house because they can't afford
it because someone's lost their job. And he's a great
example of when there are job cuts, whether they're the
public service or wider ones, they impact the local economy
and we have felt that to the bone and willing Yon.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Because most because most ques understand that we're all in
it together and we're got our shoulders to the wheel,
that we're facing global headwinds and we're all doing all
that we can to get ours country through this and
back in some strong positive growth again.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Campaign quick question is not buying that one quick question
to win? This is the B and Z idea from
Winston Peters. The stupidest policy in the history of stupid
policies in election campaigns. Mark your answer.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
It might have been at New Zealand verse speak to.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
You.
Speaker 5 (09:29):
Do you think anyone's going to buy the B and Z?
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (09:34):
How are they're going to go? So we're we're completely
focused on ki Bank, making sure that Kyi Banks is
competitive as it can be, and it takes on the
big Bussie banks.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
What about you?
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Do you think that's a stupid idea or would you
put the b in z in your future fund once
you've discussed future fund.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Well, if you don't sell it, it could be, but
we who knows. I thought, I thought you're going to
sell it.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
It was beaks on the future fun got one of them.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I didn't say that.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
I do think though, that out of all of the ideas.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Winston's head, I wouldn't give this one number one.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Let's say that.
Speaker 5 (10:22):
Okay, fair enough. Nice to see both Ginny Anderson Mark Mitchell.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news Talks It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Jenny Mark, Morning, Morning Mike. Now with this future fund, Ginny,
what's gone wrong here? What's with the big secret squirrel?
Until after the election? With your treaty problems and stuff,
Why can't you get this sorted out before election day?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I think we've been clear from the start that we
would not give the which ones would be in because
we needed that advice as being in government, that was
pretty clear. And to those market sensitivities include whether or
not there's a covenant on it, because in my day
we entreaty settlements. I think it's Section twenty seven. You
have the ability to put a covenant over a property
(00:36):
if it's a state owned asset, and so having access
to that information from cruisery is important to be able
to make well informed decisions before we put things into
a future.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Can you explain it to people who haven't followed this well,
So what's the department that would generate income for you?
Like would the Investment in New Zealand Investment Fund? Could
that be part of the future Fund or is that
completely separate?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
So any state owned asset attems to government is potentially
able to be put in And let's.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Make a simple one. So TV and Z could potentially
pay your dividend that could be in the future.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Fundure potentially potentially anythink that is a state owned asset
that's administered under that act and that pays a dividend
to government, and you need to take advice as to
what can come in or not because there will be implications.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Threaty link at TV and ZB potentially that would prevent
you from putting them in that fund. I mean, what
is it that's been committed to that would stop that happening.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Probably not TV and Z unless they own property. So
in my time working as a negotiator for the Office
of Treaty Settlements, one of the abilities of that E
we can do is I think it's pretty sure it's
Section twenty seven that you can place a covenant over
a state owned asset and so that's unable to be
sold or anything you know, transferred until you're engaged with
(01:53):
that EB and that will prevent and so I think
you need some Treasury advice on first of all, does
that have a covenant on it or not? And also
what happens if you lift that or go around that,
So in order to not make decisions that further expose.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Our country to risk.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
We want to be able to do all of that
homework to make sure it's in place.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Should should remind this, should remind people how bad labor are.
This is their corner stone.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Really, Okay, that's a surprise that you said that.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Well, on Ginny, you can you can't say who's going
into it, you can't say how many dividends you're going
to guess, and you can't say how you're going to
replace those dividends to fund health, education and police. It
is ridiculous. It is a complete you're saying you're and
you're telling people that you're not going to tell them
to after the election. It is a It is a comical.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
It is what some of those companies, I mean some
of those companies we see even in those factory closures,
whether or we see big New Zealand companies that are
earning a good capital for people, that are earning paying.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Good wages, whether they're sy.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Steamer, whether their picks peanut butter.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
We've seen forty two you can name.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
It detail company.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
You can't do that go off shore and take what's
some keepy jobs and we want to keep them here.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
We can.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
So the Future Fund would buy I wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Buy them, but it would provide deeper capital markets here
in New Zealand, and that's been one of the big
problems with our economy over time.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
How can you say that? Explain your polity? You know
the capital markets like detail, don't you? You know that
they like to have detail. Where's the detail? Jimmy no
I said.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
All I said was we need deeper capital here in
New Zealand to the same under to grow to it.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
We don't know what we're buying now, but surely as
a politician you can understand if you don't know what
you're voting for, who to vote for it.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Well, I'm unlike National We're actually going to do the
work instead of cut for tobacco company now where they
can't pay for the fairies and they can't pay for
things because they didn't do the homework. We're not going
to fall into those famous We won't make.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
The series out billions of dollars.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I think Jenny David makes a good point in the
text ee ability to Covenant is limited. I think it's
first writer refusal and from memory. I think that's right,
isn't it? So you're going to sell something? They go, yeah,
we either wanted or don't. Isn't that right?
Speaker 3 (04:16):
That's right?
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, well what are you worried about them? Why don't
you get on with your policy?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Given covenant on it?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
What's your?
Speaker 3 (04:25):
What's your?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
And it's funny though I went on.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
The national Past of the day. No policies on there
either something no one's talking about.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
No policy it out, We've we've rolled out heats of policies.
You've just you've just.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
A posted is done. There's no election policy, Mark, not one.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
In all fairness, I'm sure that Chippy's slipping peanut butter
on his toast, on his beautiful toaster.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Up what you're going to say? Where's he going to
slap a peanut butter? Mark?
Speaker 5 (04:56):
Are you?
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I don't want you to make policy on the hoof here, Jenny,
God forbid? But is the one percent of public service
so one percent of the population.
Speaker 5 (05:06):
Would you reverse that or not?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
I'm not committing to reversing it, but we deeply consumed
about those jobs and everyone. I'm not going to say
that now because I'm not the Minister of Finance and
I haven't got the budget in front of me yet,
so I can't make that commitment. But it is important
to note that people said of sometimes think that these
are Wellington bureaucrats sitting at a disk. These are customs workers,
(05:32):
these are health workers. These are people on the frontline
of New Zealand. People will lose their jobs. We've gone
through No they am, they cannot. We've looked at those numbers.
We think frontline will go on those numbers.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
Even though they said they weren't going to go. You can't.
You can't go.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Last time they did.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
They said that last time. Last last time we're in government,
we were we had a very good record of making
sure that all of our focus in support when to
frontline services delivered to qywis. Yes, we have got absolutely
outstanding public servants on one myself, But the reality of
it is this jinny previous guilt. Under the previous government
(06:12):
you added sixteen thousand public servants and guess what happened?
Hospital waiting time, sword student achievement plummeted, thirty percent, increase
in violent crime. So numbers do not.
Speaker 6 (06:23):
Equate to better public services for the public focused on
doing Can I ask this the meeting that was held
in Queenstown a couple of days ago, So you don't
have any policies, Jenny, And this is your problem at
the moment.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
It's getting worse by the week, as far as I
can work out as the closer we get to the election.
So Megan's at the meeting and she goes The first
thing she says is, I'm not here to announce a policy.
So what's the point of having meetings and having discussions
if your only contribution or the labour pay is anty
contribution to something? Is we haven't announced or I'm not
going to announce a policy because increasingly we want to
kind of know what's going on.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Well, I think King, we need to know whether is
going to be a feature or not. Because the government
did announce it. You're killing they then they've backed away
from your book, and so that happening or not.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
You're not saying anything. All you're telling me is the
stuff you won't do. We know what you're not going
to do. When do we get to know what you
are going to do? So when I go to an
energy meeting and I go, what's your energy policy? Megan
doesn't go, well, I'm not going to announce that today.
Otherwise I've wasted my time.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
All we've said right early on that we want the
budget in place to know what the books are before
we'll commit to large scale policy. And that's important to
do that so that we don't make promises we can't keep,
and like what National have done, I want to make
sure what funded actually can here.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
So the week after the budget we will be getting policy.
Is that fair or no?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
I can't say that. I'm not the energy spokesperson, but
I know they're working on all those areas now and
once we have the books and we've done the analysis,
where will have the ability to make policies.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
But I've got one more point.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
I would like what more points on the public servants.
It's important.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
I'd like to make those shout outs. I'd like one
shout I never do them. I would like to do
a shout out to garyl from High five Maintenance in Newlands.
Not High five Maintenance.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
They do all your.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Handy helping outwork, lawns, you name it, rental properties. He
is sixty. He has his weekly petrol bill went from
a monthly petrol bill went from seven hundred to fourteen
hundred and he's had to let a couple of his
guys go because of that. But what's made it worse
is because of the job cuts. In Wellington, people were
(08:29):
getting their lawns cut maybe once a week. They've changed
that to once a month or not at all, and
they're delaying maintenance on their house because they can't afford
it because someone's lost their job. And he's a great
example of when there are job cuts, whether they're the
public service or wider ones, they impact the local economy
and we have felt that to the bone and willing Yon.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Because most because most ques understand that we're all in
it together and we're got our shoulders to the wheel,
that we're facing global headwinds and we're all doing all
that we can to get ours country through this and
back in some strong positive growth again.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Campaign quick question is not buying that one quick question
to win? This is the B and Z idea from
Winston Peters. The stupidest policy in the history of stupid
policies in election campaigns. Mark your answer.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
It might have been at New Zealand verse speak to.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
You.
Speaker 5 (09:29):
Do you think anyone's going to buy the B and Z?
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (09:34):
How are they're going to go? So we're we're completely
focused on ki Bank, making sure that Kyi Banks is
competitive as it can be, and it takes on the
big Bussie banks.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
What about you?
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Do you think that's a stupid idea or would you
put the b in z in your future fund once
you've discussed future fund.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Well, if you don't sell it, it could be, but
we who knows. I thought, I thought you're going to
sell it.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
It was beaks on the future fun got one of them.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I didn't say that.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
I do think though, that out of all of the ideas.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Winston's head, I wouldn't give this one number one.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Let's say that.
Speaker 5 (10:22):
Okay, fair enough. Nice to see both Ginny Anderson Mark Mitchell.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news Talks It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb
Joy is essential. And it's also elusive. You can't order it, borrow it, or simply hope it into life. But now, there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence: The Joy 101 Podcast with Hoda! Best known for her Emmy-winning work and co-anchoring Today, Hoda Kotb infuses her authenticity, curiosity, and warmth into conversations with the world’s most fascinating people. Entertainment legends, sport icons, wellness experts, and everyday folks will share how they find, allow, and experience joy. Hoda will offer her own tips and takes on seeking a more balanced, harmonious life. If you're craving inspiration, support, and useful tools to maximize your joy, tune in to these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Joy after a breakup, joy as an empty-nester, joy after loss, joy as a caretaker — Hoda's new podcast will speak to you. Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb, an iHeartPodcast.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com