Shane Jones: Associate Energy Minister on the fuel crisis, businesses seeking long-term certainty

The Government’s looking at ways to give businesses long-term certainty about fuel. 

Latest figures show we have 56 days of petrol, 45 of diesel, and 47 of jet fuel either here or en-route.  

Associate Energy Minister Shane Jones told Mike Hosking officials are considering what additional information they can release. 

He says the real plague is uncertainty, and it's not a bad idea to further mend the uncertainty in the business community. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The fuel story. Questions got raised yesterday at that stock
update around delays, potential delays, whether or not we could
have more clarity about where we're at. Businesses apparently want
less talk about supply and more about long term confidence. Anyway,
Shane Jones, Associate Minister of Energy, is back with the
Shane Morning.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Yeah, the one ship.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Delay thing that's sort of got made a thing yesterday
and as I ran some people and they said, this
is like not even a thing. Do we know what
the hell's going on? You know, not you guys, But
from the media's point of view and from the information
flow point of view.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Oh, other PM addressed this the other day and he said, look,
there's congestion up in Singapore. There's a massive re orientation
taking place as they trying to find feet, stock and
crude supplies from different sources. So there's always going to
be a few logistical challenges. I don't think people should
accaggerate the significance of the event.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
Do you are you pulling every lever you can information wise?
A business is we need to know more? Can you
give us more as there more to be given?

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yeah, I think that's a damn good point. So the
situation is that we do operate a high trust model
with the oil import companies. If I can describe them
in that vein and officials are examining, Okay, what additional
info can we give? Because the real plague upon us
there's always going to be risks, But the real plague

(01:25):
is uncertainty. And if we can plug the gaps of
uncertainty in the business community with a further additional information
being provided by the oil companies within a constructive relationship
with our officials, it's not a bad idea.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Okay, they do they have stuff they could give you
that you want to know about, and if so, what
is it.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
Well, if we were to ring, for example, Channel, they
can easily tell us what vessels are docked and booked
to bring the fuel and disforge the fuel at Marsden Point.
And if that's the nature of the information that peak
industry bodies would like to see and hear to give
them some certainty as to how they cope over the

(02:07):
next two or three months, A lot of that information
already exists. We've just got to work through with the
fuel companies how much of it can be provided. And look,
although there's no clear legal obligation for them to be
exhausted in the info they give us. Public trust trumps
and their anxieties.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Indeed, is your relationship with them, and there's with yours.
What would you pick a word? Robust, healthy, happy, loving.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, well, it's got to bear in mind this is
a high trust model. This is a deal that our
government entered into in twenty twenty four that the country
would never be never be left stranded. These are sophisticated,
herculean sized organization with global reputations that have never once
said to us that fuel will not be delivered, and

(02:57):
we have substantial penalties of law in the event that
they don't observe their statutory obligations.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
You've told us this before as an exercise in asking you.
Should they go, hey, we can't do it anymore? Would
you take them to court with a view to.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
What well the law lays out what the process is.
But look, I think we should maintain our confidence that
although the supply is sticky and the prices are large,
there is no way that any of them will see
any upside in not observing their statutory obligations.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
The swaps, the tickets, the deals. We started talking about
a couple of weeks ago, where are we at with
that and how close to some sort of fruition.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Well, the PM said the other day that supply remains
a key outcome and there are arrange of options and
when the time is right then we can obviously be
a bit more transparent as to what commercial arrangements the
Crown could or could not operate with it. But the
most important thing is that we don't want to do

(04:02):
anything that undermines the capacity or the obligation upon the
fuel companies to maintain their word to New Zealanders, and
officials will give us advice as to if the Crown
is to take a stake and increase the buffer, what
are the steps we ought to take.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
But you would know that already, wouldn't you. I mean,
you've had two weeks.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
We've got a bunch of options. But you'd be the
first person to complain if I was recklessly revealing commercial
matters on your show without Cabinet authority.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
Well, I'm not sure i'd quite like that if you
wouldn't mind, but there you go. I'm just interested. Is
it a real, live option that can materially change the picture,
or it may never come to pass?

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Well, we've already committed to re establishing and recommissioning ninety
tw one hundred million liters worth of storage and Marston Point.
So that's the first thing. If you bring more fuel
into the country, what do you do with it? Do
you leave it on a ship bobbing and the tide
or do you put it on shore? And that nine
you had millions, about eight to nine days worth of diesel,
So you know, I think it's a positive step, shows

(05:07):
that there's a level of agility within the crown. But
at the same time, we too threw twelve million dollars
worth twelve million liters every day of diesel, So these
are large amounts that we're talking about.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Good to have you on the program. Change Jones, Associate
Minister of Energy. He's done a very good job on this,
the same way Mark Mitchill has done a very good
job on the weather. He's done a very good job
in the oil And I keep going back and it's
not even I'm not trying, I'm not even actually trying
to be political about It's just I don't care who
runs this country. Happens to be a government at the
moment that you know, you might like you might not,
but my point being, I don't know that you can
necessarily fault them to this point in the way that

(05:41):
they've conducted this particular operation. And as regards the back
and forth yesterday with the journalists with the Prime minister,
they were trying desperately to make this delay of one
ship a thing, and it struck me because I watched
it live. It struck me that some of them at
least didn't actually know what they were asking about. They
didn't actually get why they were asking the question or

(06:04):
what the point of the question was, and therefore it
didn't seem to be a thing. So we rang Simon Perham,
who's the Wytimo book boss that we get on periodically.
Here he's up in kl at the moment, presumably looking
for oil. He says, this was a ship that was
delay by now, so it's not like a ship's not coming.
It was delayed by an hour. So anyway, he says,

(06:25):
it happens regularly. It's about loading or unloading time. So
just think about the size of these things, for God's sake.
I mean, you don't pull into a car park and
just whip a few boxes off and then he's on
his way this is these are massive ships, so unloading
and loading. Weather can play a part. Of course, the
cyclone last week there was a small delay as a
result of that. I wouldn't blink twice. His words, not mine.

(06:48):
I wouldn't blink twice upon hearing about that delay. It's
an hour. It's like GE's no worries. That's what Simon says,
because he's our mate as Gee's no worry, so if
he's not worried, I'm not. For more from the Mic
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