Sir Lockwood Smith: Former Speaker of the House on the vote on Te Pati Māori's behaviour in the house

A former Speaker of the House has been worried Parliament's standards have been slipping over the past few years. 

It comes as the Privileges Committee report on Te Pati Māori's behaviour during last year's Treaty Principles Bill vote, will be debated and voted on this afternoon. 

It proposes a 21-day suspension for the party's leaders, and a seven-day suspension for MP Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke. 

Former Speaker Sir Lockwood Smith told Mike Hosking a decision to close the public gallery is wise. 

He says this will be a test for Speaker Gerry Brownlee because his judgement will be critical. 

Smith says it’s up to him to make sure this debate, which will be watched by many, shows Parliament to be a better place than it’s been in the last couple of weeks. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Could be another day of shambled as the Privileg's Committee
recommendations around the Murray Party rule breaking get debated. In
the Postcap Press yesterday. There was no shortage of questions
as to whether the government wants to cut a deal.
The Privileges Committee make that decision. They are empowered. We
have representatives as every party does in the Privileges Committee,
and the determination from the Privilege Committee we support exactly

(00:21):
former Speaker at the House of Lockwood Smith back, whether
it's Lockwood Morning, Morning Mate, the Jerry Browne reaction, I
got mixed messages either he seemed sympathetic. He seems sympathetic
to the Maurory Party. Hence everybody speaks and everyone gets
an amendment and they speak to that amendment. The suggestion
from the Prime Minister on this program yesterday as those
are the rules and he couldn't do anything about it.
What's the truth?

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Well, in fact, the Speaker can do something about it, Mike.
I mean the first thing that obviously the speak would
have tried to do is get the Business Committee to
agree to how to handle the debate, and obviously that's failed.
It seems from what we've heard that's failed. So, but
then the speaker has controlled because if the debate becomes

(01:04):
futileland and just abuse a tirade, the speaker can accept
a motion that the question be now put and so
so much will depend on the speaker's judgment of the
quality of the debate because a member can only speak once,
but if an amendment has moved, a speaker can a

(01:24):
member can speak again. So it could go on for
a long time, but the debate must be of good
quality for the speaker to accept that the speaker has
huge power in Parliament.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Well, I'm glad to hear that. I just wasn't seeing
it from him the other day, and I don't want
to get you in trouble for criticizing the speaker, but
he seems to have fallen short here at a moment
he could have owned it more, he didn't. Is that
fair or not?

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Well? He made the point that it is important for
a speaker to take note of the of the needs
of the minority in Parliament and not just support automatically
a majority as speaker always if anything on the balance,
supported the opposition if you like, where there was a
judgment of balance, but where a debate falls into just

(02:12):
abuse and something that's not up to the stands of Parliament.
The Speaker can accept as a motion that the question
had been output and then the House votes on that,
and the majority will win that vote. And so the
Speaker's judgment here is critically important and I think it's
up to the Speaker to make sure of this debate

(02:33):
that will be watched by many people actually shows Parliament
to be better than had been in the last couple
of weeks.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
Would you have closed the public gallery.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
I think given the risks around this, it probably is
wise because if it'd got untidy, of course you'd have
to hold Parliament for a while while the gallery was cleared.
And so I suppose that it is why since everyone
can watch, as you just said, on television, that's so important.
And but this I think will be a test of

(03:06):
Speaker Brownley, because this is one where the Speaker's judgment
is actually going to be critically important. People must see
him to be ruling in a fair manner. But you know,
Parliament shouldn't just degrade into a mess. And I've been
worried for some time that the standards in Parliament have
slipped hugely in the last few years.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Could not agree more. It's sort of a moment in
time in many respects, isn't it. Lockward appreciate your time
as always the Lockward Smith, former Speaker of the House
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