Steve Joyce: Former Finance Minister expects more taxes following National's Budget Responsibility Rules

National's under pressure to come clean on what new taxes it could be considering.

The party's unveiled its budget responsibility rules, promising to deliver a surplus and rein in spending.

But finance spokeswoman Nicola Willis has only ruled out higher taxes on working people, leaving the door open to other tax increases.

Former Finance Minister Steve Joyce told Mike Hosking that bed and fuel taxes are the most likely options.

LISTEN ABOVE

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So the Nets use their Sunday get a headline for
election year outing to offer up some fiscal guard rails
and to challenge mainly labor to reduce a few of
their own. Broadly, the plan is to get us back
to surplus in twenty eight twenty nine, debt below forty
percent of GDP and the government spending back towards thirty
percent of GDP. Then we got the no new taxes
for working people lines. So we'll talk to the Prime
Minister about that shortly. Stephen Joyce, former Finance Minister of

(00:20):
Courses back with a Stephen Morning, Morning, Mike, how are
you very well? Indeed, if you were the campaign manager,
which of course you have been, what role does get
exactly what role does debt and its vibrancy among the
electorates play when it comes to attracting votes at this
time of year.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Well, I think it's all about how you describe it, frankly,
and you've got to keep it fairly simple. If I
were there, I'd be reminding everybody how debt has more
than doubled in the last seven years. It's well more
than doubled, and it's got to come down. And anybody
who's going to the election with promises to spend more money.

(00:59):
You should be caught on that because as a country
we're not in drastic debt. But if something happened, as
unfortunately seems to happen periodically, like earthquakes and things, we'll
be in trouble. So that's a bit to focus.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
On the National Party's reputation though in announcing what they
did yesterday is they have borrowed more and they haven't
got us to surplus. So do they have a reputational issue?

Speaker 2 (01:24):
No, I don't think so, because most people realize that
when your economy or when the government's got up ahead
esteem that it actually takes a while to online it.
And the same thing happened to us is that our
debt kept rising even after you've reduced spending, because you've
got the tail of existing expenditure. I mean, you need
to remember the big lift in spending that occurred in

(01:46):
twenty to twenty three is phenomenal and winding that back
is not easy. And as we've seen in the last
three years, as we used to say, there's a constituency
constituent see for every doll that's spent, and you've sort
of got a fight to reduce it, and so you've
got to bend the curve down. That's what you're talking

(02:07):
that's what we're talking about doing here, that's what the
government's talking about doing. And you know, because a little
bitimate debates to whether it happens fast enough or not. Now,
I'm on record of saying I think they should have
gone harder earlier in their term. But I think you're
also unconscious that coalitions are a lot more complicated than
they were when we were around as well.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Exactly no new taxes on working people, what's that mean?

Speaker 2 (02:30):
Well, they're going to have to define that, and you
know they're going to get dragged to what they actually
mean over the next few weeks. I'm sure, what do
you excitt, What do you suspect?

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Is it bid tax and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
I think it is probably just those things like bed
tax and also fuel tax increases. But look, fuel tax
increases all the time because that's what pays for the roads.
I don't think they should allow themselves to be caught
up in that. The taxpayers union people are that nuts
on that stuff, and I think you know, you don't

(03:05):
want to stuck up your tax definition just because of
the exercise, will go up to pay for roads and
transport or not. That does happen periodically. It's just the
nature of inflation. So I would be if it was me,
I'd be saying no new taxes. But to them of course,
of course.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
Good to talk to you appreciate it. Steven Joyce, former
Finance minister campaign Manage.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
It for more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live
to news talks.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.