Full Show Podcast: 02 August 2026

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Resident Builder podcast with Peter wolf
Camp from News Talks.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
D B turning up those into She'll be right.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
The Resident Builder with Peter wolf Camp and Independent Building
supplies the future of Kiwi building Today.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Call eight hundred eighty News Talk said b.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
A house sizzle even when it's dark, even when the
grass is overgrown in the yard, and even when a dog.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Is too old to barn, and when you're sitting.

Speaker 4 (00:48):
At the table trying not to starve.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Sissor home even when we.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
Are then, even when you're therellone.

Speaker 4 (01:08):
Years old.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
House is a home even when those ghost even when you.

Speaker 5 (01:17):
Got around from the world you love your.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Most scream, those broken.

Speaker 6 (01:23):
Paints appeel in front of the world.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
Locals visible when they're gone and leaving the neighbor.

Speaker 4 (01:31):
House is a home even when wilburn, even when you're
in there alone years old.

Speaker 7 (01:59):
Well, very very good morning and welcome along to the
Risident Builder on News Talk ZP. That's me Pick wolf
came Resident Builder here to take your calls, to listen
to your questions, your inquiries, to do a little bit
of musing about all things building and construction. So if
you've got a project that, I guess maybe even a

(02:19):
little bit like the one that I kind of tackled
this week, where I was pretty sure I thought I
could do it, and maybe, you know, like a day
and a half, two days something like that. I think
maybe initially I might have even thought that I could
do it in a day, But little things get added
to the task. Maybe the condition's not quite as good
as you expected. Perhaps it takes longer for things to

(02:41):
dry at this time of year, which is a genuine consideration.
Perhaps you discover that actually what I'd like to do
is do you know, the scope of the project widens
you go, Actually, what I'm going to do is I'm
going to do, in my case, take the old front
door off, replace the lock. And because I'm taking the
door off, it's a good opportunity to address some issues,

(03:02):
which is the house has moved over one hundred and
something years, so there's a an uneven gap between the
bottom of the door and the sill because sometime the
house probably leaned the other way and someone took a
bit off the bottom of the door, and then the
door started jamming in the top corner, and so they
took a bit of off the top of.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
The door there, and.

Speaker 7 (03:21):
Then you know, there used to be this type of lock,
then there was another type of lock. So that one
came off, you have to patch that. Then the other
one that's come out, and I've got to patch that,
and then I've got to prepare for installing the new
Yale digital lock that I wanted to install, excuse me.
And then I'm thinking, gosh, the gap down the side
has always been quite large, so I need to even
that up as well. So you end up trimming the

(03:42):
bottom of the door off, trim the side of the
door off, get the door back in. Then realize the
top's not great either, so next time I take the
door off and take that top off. Then I've got
to sand and fill and prep everything. Then I'm going
to replace the little beads. Then I'm going to change
the color on the outside, so I need to SAMD
that back. I need to ring the mate j at
razine and just figure out which way I'm going to

(04:04):
go from acrylics to enamels. I got to get the
right type of paint for that. Then I'm going to
hang the door. Then I've got to do the door lock,
and then I've got to replace some of the architraves. Anyway,
that's a long winded way of saying sometimes jobs take
longer than you expect, and that's okay. But maybe you've
got a job that's of a larger scale, or perhaps
a slightly smaller scale than that, that you'd like to

(04:25):
talk about, or perhaps some new ideas. I was in
the perfect situation this week, as it happens, I've been
invited to attend and partake in a cup in sort
of a panel discussion, and then deliver a presentation to
the Passive House Institute in New Zealand. They had their
annual conference two days here in Auckland. It was actually outstanding.

(04:49):
It was great, and there was a really good number
of people there, really good mixture of designers, I guess
enthusiasts and builders who are doing this incredible work around
elevating the standard of our construction by adopting these passive
house principles. But there was also in that room a
whole lot of people that understand building science, understand what

(05:13):
happens with moisture inside buildings, etc.

Speaker 8 (05:15):
Etc.

Speaker 7 (05:16):
So I was thinking back to a call that we
had last week where someone goes, hey, look I've got
this roof space and when I go up there, I
see condensation on the underside of the roofing paper. What
do you think's going on? And I'm like, I've been
an environment where a whole bunch of people are going
to have an opinion about that, So an opportunity to
discuss it. Air leakage seemed to be the consensus there.

(05:38):
We can go into that a little bit more detailed,
but if you'd like to ask questions of a building,
construction products, legislation, rules and red tape that kind of
bind us into a project. Had the classic yesterday of
someone who called me I know them, said, look, we've
done some work on the house, including taking out a

(05:59):
wall and they used to be a chimney there, and
we did it and we kind of didn't ask for
a building consent. Do you think we're in a position
now where we could suggest to a prospective purchaser that
maybe we could do that work under Schedule one of
the Act, which allows for certain types of building work
to be done without necessarily requiring a building consent. So

(06:22):
kind of a look at that and a bit of
a question about well, what was here, what's there now?
What evidence do you have that the work complies with
the building code even if you didn't get a building consent,
and then do you think you need a consent? So
I've got a little bit of research to do tomorrow,
but those sorts of questions we can talk about as
well now later on in the morning. Every now and then,

(06:44):
certainly I have conversations with people, and it's a kind
of conversation I'm having with myself. Around there's a lot
of chat about a transition away from gas residentially anyway,
or gas use residentially to electric basically for a number
of different reasons. Is there enough gas? Is it a
good thing to have gas in our houses in terms

(07:06):
for the environment and so on? And I know we've
had a couple of conversations over the last little while
with people who are going, hey, look, we think it's
a really good idea energy conservation pathway to carbon zero,
all of those sorts of things. But I figured it
would be good to talk, not quite to the other
side of the argument, but to get another view. So

(07:27):
Jeffrey from gas end Z, he's the chief executive, will
be joining me after eight o'clock. So if you've got
a specific question that you might have around gas in
New Zealand, gas supply, residential gas use, that sort of thing.
Feel free to fire them through and if I've got
time in the conversation, I'll see if I can get
that into the conversation as well. But the chief executive

(07:50):
of Gas in z will be joining us after eight
o'clock this morning to chat about residential gas because lots
of people have got gas califont gas heating, maybe gas
cooking massive. I'm having conversations seemingly every week with people
who are going I'm thinking about going rooftop soler. I'm
thinking about maybe putting in an energy efficient hot water

(08:12):
heat pump. I had a conversation with someone yesterday I
took to Grant from Steeble Outron while we're at the
Passive House conference. You know, there's lots of conversations about this,
but I figured it's good to get both sides of
the story if in fact, it feels like they're competing
with each other, and I'm not sure that they necessarily are.
So that conversation after eight o'clock, but right now, from

(08:33):
now right through to eight o'clock, it's your opportunity to
talk all things building and construction, so big projects, little projects,
medium sized projects. I guess well, actually changing door and Joe,
I wonder how that we had a call? Was it
last week? Week before? Two weeks ago? From a woman
who said, look, I've asked a company to supply me

(08:54):
with a new door. They've taken my fifty percent deposit,
but I haven't heard from them for months, and I
hope they're arriving this week to do it. But they
wanted to be paid upfront before they arrived to do
the job. I wonder how that job went as well.
Wouldn't mind a quit call in a bit of an
update on that one oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty
nine two nine two or zbzb on the text for

(09:16):
any of your text questions or responses or questions or comments,
and if you feel like emailing, well you're more than
welcome to do that. It's Pete at newstalksb dot co
dot nz. So Pete Pte at Newstalk SB dot co
dot nz. All of your questions are welcome and just
you know, general constructions about building construction, some of the

(09:38):
changes that are coming up to legislation as we tack over.
We're now officially the second of August, which means September's next,
which means that the introduction to home warranties is just
over a year away. And certainly there's been some fascinating
discussion in the media and I suppose in the in

(09:58):
the space of public discourse around what it's going to
look like for small independent building company. And when I
say independent companies that perhaps have they've operated their business
for a number of years, they've never taken association with
either Master builders or certified builders. How are they going

(10:20):
to be able to provide a home warranty? What's their
pathway to being able to provide that? There are a
couple of providers out there, but will basically, are there
gaps in the system that might not be filled by
next year given that the deadline is September twenty twenty seven,
and seemingly there's broad cross party consensus that this is

(10:43):
the pathway forward. So regardless of the outcome of the election,
I think this is going to happen next year, which
isn't a long way away. So the home warranty scheme,
so one of those things, like I say, I was
at the Passive House conference Thursday and Friday, part of
the day and chatting with builders about Hey, this is coming,

(11:05):
are you prepared? And I guess for homeowners, what conversations
are you having with your builders if you're looking to
build sometime at the end of next year. Oh eight
hundred eighty ten eighty lines are open number to call
right now because we've got a couple of spere lines
Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty back in a month.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Helping you finish that five but it fixed.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
You started the resident builder with Peter Wilfcamp and Independent
Building Supplies the future of Kiwi building today call oh
eight hundred eighty ten eighty news Talks there'd be.

Speaker 7 (11:37):
I have a sense that the person that writes those
little sweepers, those little bits that play just at the
end of the ad break, has done quite a lot
of DIY themselves, and that classic you know, I think
it will take me five minutes. Whether it's five minutes
or five hours or five days, you always know it's
going to take longer, but you don't because you don't
tell yourself that because then you wouldn't start the project.

(11:59):
And this is me talking about something that I started.
I think I started on Tuesday because I kind of
ran out of time on Monday, and then by the
time I pulled the door off taking it into the workshop,
started work on it, then got it back in, which
meant that we didn't have a door lock that night,
so I had to scrawl block across the door frame
to keep the door closed. And then it's still like that, right,

(12:21):
So I still I've got everything ready. I've done the
old mortar thing, and I've got everything set up, and
I was working away on the door jam yesterday, putting
in I guess the recess for the bolt and the
striker plate and so on, but also the architraves because
they'd been butchered over time by different locks being put in.
Now he just very no. I'll tell the story in

(12:44):
a minute. We'll get on some calls. But if you've
ever thought should I hang on to this? You know
that moment in the workshop where you look at something
you go don't know, you know, should I throw that out?
And then you choose to do it, and then you
know that you're going to need it next week. Anyway,
we'll talk about that a little bit later on Marian,

(13:04):
Good morning, Welcome with.

Speaker 9 (13:06):
Mine, Pete.

Speaker 10 (13:07):
Pete.

Speaker 11 (13:07):
I phoned you about two weeks ago, I was asking
you why, why would it might be that I have
double glazing and yet I could still feel dross coming
through a couple of windows. You suggested that I call

(13:30):
I live in christ Church, and you suggested that I
might call Exceeds.

Speaker 8 (13:35):
Ye.

Speaker 11 (13:37):
So I followed your advice and I phoned Exceed and
I had a gentleman fronic seed called Roth that came
out in the middle of week, just just far and
I have to take and he went right through the house,
the doors, the locks, everything, and I have to tell

(14:01):
you that he was the most professional curson and and
he he explained it. In the aluminium in every window
there's there's little little parts built in where it's for
the drainage, just as any if any took too much

(14:23):
condensational whatever, So a little, a little bit of there
comes through that there was nothing wrong with any of
the steals except for the front door and some of
the catches, the little catches that you open you used
to open the windows needed replacement. But I just needed

(14:46):
to tell you that I couldn't believe how professional he was,
and I wanted to ring to thank you for putting
me under this company.

Speaker 7 (14:56):
Look, I guess I'm always delighted to be fair that
if I you know, because all I'm talking about is
my own experience, right So in in some situations in
the past, I've said, this is a company that can
come and sort you out. And I guess the benefit
for Exceeder is that they are nationwide. Typically they've got
in their vans all the little bits and pieces that

(15:18):
they might need, seals and brackets and screws and bits
and pieces. So look, I'm delighted because to be fair,
every now and then it doesn't go that way. And
you know, we all have a bad day as tradees, and.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
I know that.

Speaker 7 (15:32):
You know, sometimes I'll go, oh, such and such, and
then they'll just have a bad day and I don't
feel great. But look, I'm delighted.

Speaker 11 (15:38):
And more importantly, he went away and I'll give you
a quote for the things that need doing. I've accepted
the quote, and and I just couldn't be happier with
dealing with this company.

Speaker 12 (15:53):
Great.

Speaker 6 (15:53):
I would let you know, thank you.

Speaker 7 (15:55):
I really appreciate it. And it's quite good to hear
too that someone comes through and you know, very professionally
gives you an assessment of what's there. And because I
think we all know that is those situations sometimes where
someone comes and they end up kind of quoting or
persuading you to do work that might not be necessary.
So it's really nice to hear that, hey, these are

(16:15):
the things that we need to fix. These things are okay,
but at least now you know that someone else has
cast an eye over it, they've looked at it and
gone okay. And really good comment from him around the drainage,
because I think sometimes people forget that different types of
joinery performed in different ways, and like having those drainage passages.
If there is condensation on the endside of the window

(16:36):
with old conventional aluminium, then that should be able to
drain out. And so he might have said, look, make
sure you keep those clean. Often sliding doors that sort
of thing people, the tracks get filled up, the moisture
can't escape, and so you get a little bit of leakage.
So and Marian, I really sincerely do appreciate you calling
through to say in this instance someone's turned up and

(16:57):
done a great job. I really really do appreciate that.
Thank you. And that was the other thing that was
quite interesting, being I guess in the room with the
Passive House Institute. This was Thursday Friday, and I saw
their Thursday afternoon and then Friday afternoon for a bit
because I think sometimes we have discussions around you know, builders,
trades people, plumbers, electricians, and so on, and they can

(17:20):
tend to focus on the negative. You know, such and
such left a whole lot of rubbish or such and
such a bad job, or they overcharged or whatever. But
the reality is there is a huge number of trades people,
whether that's builders, plumbers, electricians, rufers, tilers, waterproofers, whoever, who
do great work every day and leave with customers that

(17:42):
feel really good about the work, happy that they've engaged
with them, They've had professional service. You know, it's worked well,
probably more so than the negative story. But unfortunately, I
guess the way the world is, we hear the negative stuff.
But again, Marian really appreciate that. Brian, good morning to you, sir.

Speaker 13 (17:59):
Good morning Pete.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
How are you you very well?

Speaker 7 (18:01):
Actually in yourself?

Speaker 8 (18:02):
Good? Good?

Speaker 13 (18:03):
Hey, Pete's got I'm doing up a shower. Yes, it's
a tile shower. It's onto Hardie's yep backing. The waterproofing
has gone. The bottom timber plate has rotten out. Now
I want to know the exterior it's on an exterior wall. Yes,
what the exterior clouding is in good condition? Is there

(18:28):
any way to reattach the cladding back onto the framing
without having to rip the exterior cladding off?

Speaker 7 (18:37):
Okay? What type of cladding is it?

Speaker 13 (18:40):
It looks like a stucco hardy pictured?

Speaker 7 (18:46):
How how extensive is the rot in the bottom plate?

Speaker 13 (18:52):
It's probably the width of the shower, say fifteen hundred
in the corner either side, oh, corner shower.

Speaker 7 (19:05):
I presume that the building work that's now failed basically
is more than ten years old.

Speaker 13 (19:13):
Correct, it's a nineteen eighties house.

Speaker 7 (19:17):
Yeah, okay, I suppose there's a couple of things going on.
I'm starting to wonder whether whether you can do this
as repairs and maintenance or because it's structural. Would you
need to go for a building consent because you're replacing
part of the building that's failed within the durability requirements

(19:42):
of the building, and your framing is supposed to last
fifty years, right, But because your waterproofing has failed, your
framing has failed effectively. All right, Let's I think, if
I'm really honest, if I was in your shoes. I
would probably go and do the work to the requirements

(20:03):
of the code, but I wouldn't necessarily go for a
building consent given the limited scope of it. The challenge
is if it's when you say it's a render, is
it a rigid backing? Is it polystyrene on the exterior?
Is it lath with plaster, with plaster on a cavity?

Speaker 9 (20:25):
No?

Speaker 7 (20:25):
No cavity direct fixed as well, wouldn't it correct? Yeah,
So the situation is you'll pull all of the shower
will come out, the lining will come out, The insulation
is probably all a bit soggy as well in there,
and then the bottom plate is saturated and saturated and
decayed to the point where it's no longer load bearing.

Speaker 12 (20:46):
Correct.

Speaker 7 (20:48):
How much of the studs are rotten as well?

Speaker 13 (20:51):
I haven't quite ripped it out yet, but I'm thinking
thinking it's well, what I've seen is totally black. I've
seen a bit of the stud it's about one hundred
high where it's decayed.

Speaker 7 (21:03):
Yeah, okay, so you've got to do some I.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
See.

Speaker 7 (21:10):
I think you're going to have to take the cladding
off the outside, okay, because you know, practically speaking, the
bottom of that cladding will have been fixed through the
rib lath or whatever structure it is. And the rib
lath is you know those sheets that there used to
be about seven eight hundred wide. They're an extruded metal

(21:30):
galvanized sheet with like a ribbed pattern on it, and
you fix that to the framing and then you filled
that up with plaster. Basically it provided a substrate that
would allow the plaster to adhere to it because it
was profiled and penetrated. So when you take the and
that would have been fixed in, so when you end

(21:51):
up pulling the bottom plate away, you'll expose the nails
that are fixing that cladding in. And there is this
kind of no realistic way of being able to put
a new piece of timber in and then get that
to adhere to it without penetrating the cladding. So yeah,
single story, double story, single story. Okay, I'm just thinking

(22:18):
about now remediating the outside because the challenge with remediation
to solid plaster like that is, you know, where do
you make the join right? You end up maybe having
to strip it all the way to the underside of theft,
or go up high enough and then do an under

(22:39):
and over flashing so you get a flashing up behind
the existing cladding if you can pry that off slightly
and then bring your other render up. But that's a
tricky joint, a cold joint in the exterior cladding to do. Yeah,
and then inside, well, if it's fifteen hundred, so the
shower is probably nine hundred by nine hundred. So over time,

(22:59):
the waters on a concrete slab on concrete. Yep, thank
goodness for that. That's the best part of the story
so far, isn't it. Yeah, you know what I mean.
Imagine if that was timber framing, you know, over the
time it would have saturated into the framing, the floor
would have started to rot out. Crikey. Yeah, look, I.

Speaker 13 (23:21):
I had an idea, you know, like if I could
clean it away properly and then possibly drill some holes
in screw fix then using apoxy and then take them
over to seal it.

Speaker 7 (23:41):
I actually, I tell you what the other because obviously
behind the rib lath will be some building paper which
will get damage when you take out the bottom plate.
But I wonder whether in fact what you might be
able to do is grind a certain amount of the
exterior render off, grind it and then then chip it

(24:02):
off to expose the rib lath right that that shoting
and then in that bottom area and then fix through
the rib lath into your new bottom plate and studs
and then patch the render up. But because you haven't
taken the rib lath off, you could bond the new
render to the old render because you've got that metal substrate.

Speaker 14 (24:26):
There.

Speaker 7 (24:28):
There's a guy if you need to talk to someone
about it, there's a guy filled from pro Clad who
would probably be able to give you a bit of
advice around there. I hope I'm not dropping a minute,
but I met him on site where he was doing
some repairs the other day and he had a really

(24:49):
good practical approach to it. So happy to actually if
you leave your number of like you through Phil's number
and he might be able to help out. All right, producer,
But yeah, I think I think being able to strip
some of that exterior plaster off, like knock it off
and expose the reblat do you repair fixed through with
new fixing so that you've got a solid fixing at

(25:11):
the bottom and then repair the render. I think you
might actually have reasonable.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
Luck with that.

Speaker 13 (25:17):
Okay, that's great, Yeah, I am replacing the tiles of
a plastic line shower.

Speaker 7 (25:23):
I mean, look, you know, I think sometimes we kind
of talk about these things, and yes, there have been
failures with waterproofing systems under tile. It would be really
interesting to see whether you could identify what the cause
of the failure was, you know, whether it's poor application,
whether there's been movement, whether you know, things like bond

(25:47):
breaker tapes weren't installed, all of those sorts of things.
Just as a just as a scientific inquiry, I'd be
fascinated to know. But you know, I know plenty of
nineteen eighties waterproofing that still works well today. But yes,
when they fail, the results are significant. And again talking
about sched you one of the act and work that

(26:08):
requires a consent. You can see why counsel require a
building consent typically for waterproofing and a tile shower, because
if they do fail, the consequences are significant. That's what
you're finding.

Speaker 13 (26:23):
Yep, yep, I got to I've got two bad from
Zezek the same to do.

Speaker 7 (26:28):
Oh mate, oh the bills, yeah, I know, but what
I mean again, with respect, you're probably in twenty five
thirty grand to do the repairs, I.

Speaker 13 (26:39):
Would say, so, yeah, it's one of those open check
books until you look at it.

Speaker 7 (26:45):
Yeah, absolutely absolutely is this Sorry for asking these kind
of slightly personal questions, but when you bought the house,
did you think there might have been a problem, or
have you bought this property knowing that there's a problem.
I'm just going to have to fix it?

Speaker 13 (26:58):
Or I've been asked to do the work?

Speaker 7 (27:00):
Okay, all right, you've been asked to all right, sures yep.
And it's it's you know, like as a contractor, it's
kind of heartbreaking having to go back to people and go, look,
I'm really sorry, but this is the extent of the work.
And then as a contractor you then have a professional
obligation to say, you know, there's no shortcuts here, right,

(27:22):
we either do it properly or we don't.

Speaker 13 (27:25):
Yeah, what starts off as smalling, ye is?

Speaker 7 (27:29):
Oh oh mate, Hey, good luck and really appreciate the call.
I'll grab Philm's number for you all the very best.
Hold on there, we bid take a short break. Oh
eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number. Call puit
of an update on the door too. This is awesome.
That'll be straight after.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
The break where di y gets unstuck.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
Call oh eight eight ten eighty the resident builder with
Peter Wolfcam and Independent Building supplies the future of ki
We Building Today News Dogs, there be.

Speaker 7 (28:00):
A quick update on that story that we had a
couple of weeks ago, and thank you Ruth for texting through.
So Hey, Pete, I am the woman that had the
door that had been waiting fifteen months. I didn't realize
it was fifteen months. After paying the deposit and not
hearing anything. After refusing to pay any more money, they
said I could go and see the door at the workshop,
which I think was suggestions that came up when we

(28:23):
were chatting. So they said I could go and see
the door at the workshop, which we did, and I
met the installer who's different to the owner who came
to quote. We paid forty percent and they did turn
up to install the door. The installer just said that
the owner's not great at communicating and that's why it
took so long. He's taken on too many jobs. Yeah, okay, look,

(28:43):
the main thing is Ruth, thank you, and hopefully the
door went in. It works. It's exactly what you expected.
And while you know, to be absolutely honest, it's not
great that you waited fifteen months for a front door
after paying a deposit.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
You know that.

Speaker 7 (29:00):
But at least it's in and your door probably got
installed quicker than I'm able to do my own door.
But that's another matter. Oh eight, one hundred and eighty
ten eighty is the number to call now. I did
mention that Jeffrey Clark, who is the chief executive of
gas end Z. So gas in Z are basically an
organization that speaks on behalf of I suppose gas suppliers

(29:20):
and gas users and gas and stallers and companies and
manufacturers in New Zealand. So it seems like in conversations
that I'm kind of having with people, you know, as
I'm chatting to people about houses and that sort of thing,
gas comes up quite a bit. And certainly in the media,
there's lots of conversations around a transitioned from gas to electric,

(29:44):
questions about gas supply. People talking about, look, I've moved
into a new suburb and they won't install gas here,
or they won't provide for gas supply, et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera. So I figured, well, why not just talk
to gas in Z directly. So Jeffrey Clark will be
my guest after eight o'clock. He's the chief executive, and
I did mention that if you had a specific question

(30:05):
you could fire it through. I could pretty much just
leave you guys to do the whole interview, which is awesome.
I've had some great questions, so if we get a moment,
I will definitely try and put those to Jeffrey, just
in terms of it's obviously a conversation that lots of
people are having around I've got gas and I'm thinking
about changing or I'd like to have gas, but I

(30:26):
don't know if there'll be gas. And someone pointed out too,
can you please differentiate between South Island bottled LPG and
North Island natural gas? So yeah, there's two different types
of gas supply. If we're in the South Island, your
gas is different to us in the North Island. So
we'll talk about that as well as I say, Jeffrey
Clark from gas en Z, which is a sort of

(30:49):
august An industry body representing the interests of gas users
and I guess gas as an energy source and looking
at that whole space around renewable gas, which is kind
of new to most people. So we'll talk with him
after eight o'clock this morning. Cameron, good morning to you.

Speaker 12 (31:07):
Good morning. Better have an interesting problem to and to resolve.
This is in Wellington. It's my daughter's actually duplex nineteen
seventies and timber with the boarder on the outside. Leaking

(31:30):
window that started probably a couple of years ago. Recent
got a quote for repair, basically replacement of the top flashing.

Speaker 15 (31:48):
That was.

Speaker 12 (31:51):
Required, scaffolding because it's on a second level.

Speaker 8 (31:57):
It was done.

Speaker 12 (32:00):
The well. The initial window was about two point four
by one point one point five size. There was a
second window which was not leaking at the time. Recommended
that the flashing was replaced because of the duke at

(32:23):
the age of the unit ye and so flashing replaced,
silicon around it, painted. It started leaking. The second windows
started leaking internally into custom board and so my daughter

(32:49):
got the builder back. Well sorry that the first repair
is now a builder on site doing a renovation as
he said, not this practice in the Wellington area, driving

(33:10):
rain data and so second repair done, still leaking. How
do we go about? The builder seemed to come with
recommendations and it's getting to a point where we've daughters

(33:36):
paid Hey Todd thousands get the initial repair done, the
builder wanted to be paid for second repedial work, and
we're back to third remedial work.

Speaker 7 (33:56):
I suppose the first question would be, was anyone absolutely
clear about where the leak was coming from? H?

Speaker 12 (34:06):
Well, the the initial league wasn't in the second window.

Speaker 7 (34:11):
No, okay, So after the repair the window started leaking. Yes, right,
Look I shouldn't laugh by that. You know, that's the classic,
isn't it. It was fine then I repaired it. Now
it's failing. Okay. So and and that original contractor is
going to come back to do the remediation.

Speaker 12 (34:32):
Well, that's done, an initial remediation, and my daughter and
I are sort of in a dilemma of.

Speaker 8 (34:44):
What.

Speaker 12 (34:47):
As I said, there's a there's a major renovation going
on at the so she wanted the windows repaired before
the renovation, of course, and.

Speaker 7 (34:58):
That renovation does that include removing like interior wall linings
around the window? Okay? Well that The reason I mentioned
that is that's quite good in terms of seeing where
the leaking is, because sometimes if the interior linings there,
it's harder to see. But if they've been stripped off
that effectively you've got timber framing you've got the window,
you've got the facing, So it's timber framing. What type

(35:20):
of cladding.

Speaker 12 (35:23):
External clatting is just do you call it shipboard? Just
timber shipboard?

Speaker 7 (35:32):
Is it vertical rather than hot horizontal?

Speaker 5 (35:34):
No?

Speaker 12 (35:35):
Horizontal?

Speaker 7 (35:35):
Horizontal? Okay?

Speaker 13 (35:37):
Oh?

Speaker 7 (35:37):
Ship lap weatherboards, which is none usual profile? Yep, Okay, well.

Speaker 12 (35:43):
It's it's that what it wanted to be one fifty
by twenty with a slight devil on one inch.

Speaker 9 (35:56):
Yep.

Speaker 7 (35:56):
They called the black No, but it just sounds like
standard weatherboards. So again, you know, sort of a nineteen
seventies building with timber windows, I presume, or aluminum windows, timber, timber.

Speaker 12 (36:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (36:10):
Generally they're quite straightforward, right, and generally they're quite robust,
So I would have thought that any failure in the
sense of water getting in would be quite obvious, because
in general that sort of bulletproof, right, So I guess
I would have assumed that identifying the cause of the

(36:32):
leaking would be relatively straightforward, and because they're a relatively
straightforward composition, repairing them should be straightforward. I just wonder
whether in this instance, maybe reaching out and going to
a local joinery supplier or to another builder that you
might know who's got experience with remediation. To have them
provide some oversight could be quite handy because I wonder

(36:55):
whether when you actually turn up on site, you'll be
able someone with a suitable experience will be able to
identify what the problem is and how to fix it,
and that you know, maybe the flashing it really shouldn't fail.
I just wonder whether finding another experienced person to come
and visit might be your best solution going forward.

Speaker 12 (37:19):
There is another builder on side, yeah, who's got an
opinion about it?

Speaker 7 (37:24):
Or yes, okay, yeah, I because like.

Speaker 12 (37:30):
These just how firm should she be? You've repaired, you've
done a repair.

Speaker 7 (37:36):
Oh look, if you've done a repair and it's failed,
then that's on the contractor to repair it, you know,
and the only the only out for the contractor might
be that in some instances, and I've had this where
you go, okay, there's a leak, we'll fix the leak.
But it turns out there were in fact two. So
if if and that happens sometimes right, it's rare, but

(37:58):
it can happen. So potentially in this instance, someone's come,
they've repaired something, but in fact there were two leaks
and the other leaks still active, and so they've got
to repair that. Now, if they can provide you with
some evidence and it's believable, then you'd go, okay, fair enough.
I understand that you've done what I asked you to
do properly, and but there's actually two leaks. But I
think if if what it was was that they inadvertently

(38:22):
made a change somewhere which caused a leak which wasn't
there before, then I think that's on them and you
or your daughter shouldn't be paying for that. I've got
to run for a break. But let us know how
you got on, because that's I can understand the frustration,
and that six poin fifty here at News Talks the
B back after.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
The break measure twice call once on eight hundred eighty
ten eighty. The resident builder with Peter Wolfcamp and Independent
Building supplies the future of Kiwi Building Today.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
News Talks by.

Speaker 7 (38:54):
News Talks B and lines are open for you. Oh,
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to
call Marie quick couple of calls, quick chat before the news.

Speaker 14 (39:03):
How are you is that?

Speaker 9 (39:05):
Me?

Speaker 7 (39:05):
Kid A Nyri has things?

Speaker 2 (39:07):
HI good?

Speaker 14 (39:07):
Thank you Peter, I called for a couple of reasons.

Speaker 8 (39:15):
Have been listening to this.

Speaker 14 (39:16):
I have called you some time ago about being you know,
about me building my archie pick in my house, and
I listen. I've got a good I got a good
I got a good thing. I want you to tummy.
Do you think this is a good idea? It's nothing
to do with building materials.

Speaker 6 (39:33):
Now I have.

Speaker 14 (39:35):
I have been to the whole of this and the
other I wondered what you would think. I want you
to tummy. Do you think wooden or steal? I'm going
to go and by the next three weeks, I'm going
to go purchase a hammer, not a hammer, not a
hammer with rubber on. I want you to tell me

(39:57):
what sort of hammer will I purchase and go see
my friend or do it at the back of my house.
And I want to differ, no, seriously and proper, proper
solid gold, and then I will ready and I know

(40:17):
I'm not bringing there, and I'm going to differ and
as much gold as I can.

Speaker 7 (40:23):
Yes, do you have lots of gold floating?

Speaker 12 (40:26):
Yes?

Speaker 14 (40:27):
I do, good and so, but I want to tell
you I want to gift it to you when it's finished.
I put it in a cabinet because that's our passionate.
I am about hammers throughout.

Speaker 7 (40:43):
My whole life, and I actually get where you're coming from.
And I actually I very much appreciate the fact that
you might think of me as a suitable recipient for
a golden hammer. I think that's delightful. I think if
you're going to do it, you'd go for a traditional
wooden handled claw hammer and end that in gold would
be the way to go. I've got what have I

(41:03):
got one of those titanium hammers that I use the days.
I've had it for about ten years. It's been awesome.
But I think if you're if you're going to do
something traditional, I know that it's all but funky. With
the young kids with the Instagram, they're all back into
the wooden hammers and that sort wooden handled hammers. We
can talk about that after the break, right, we got
News Top of the Hour at seven back with Morgan Paulson.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Vexing what they forgot to mention on that YouTube video.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
The Resident Builder with Peter Wolfcamp and Independent Building Supplies
the Future of Kiwi Building Today Call eight hundred eighty
ten eighty News Talks baselfs.

Speaker 7 (42:01):
Alrighty over, Molly, welcome back to the show. Eight hundred
eighty ten eighty is then bit a call you can text,
and had some great texts actually because I mentioned that
Jeffrey Clark from gas en Z is going to be
my guest after eight o'clock, and had obviously the conversations
that I'm having other similar conversations that you might be
having either with yourself or with friends and neighbors or

(42:23):
contractors around so much discussion around what's the role for
gas in the future, Will there be gas in the
future for residential use, should we transition, is there a
genuine reason to transition from gas to electric, et cetera,
et cetera. So I figured, well, we'll get both sides
of the story. We've had a couple of people on
from Eker and so on. So Jeffrey Clark from gas

(42:47):
in Z it's going to be my guest after eight
o'clock and again and Ira, thank you very much for
your call before the news. It got me thinking about
hammers and spending quite a bit of time in the
workshop at the moment while I'm redoing the door and
I've got a little rack with a whole lot of
different hammers in it, just hanging up So typically I've
got I've got a Martinez titanium hammer that I bought

(43:08):
ten years ago that I keep in my oproen and
the back of the truck. Then inside the workshop, I've
got this little rack and I'm just thinking. I got
like a small graphite composite hammer that I bought in France,
I think twenty odd years ago that I keep just
for fine work, small work. Then there's an old sixteen
ounce est wing that I've had forever that's hanging up there.

(43:30):
Then I've got like a double headed hammer, which is
kind of like a dead blow hammer, which is quite
useful for things like closing paintlets or nailing them, banging
them down. I think I've got, oh, like a metal
worker's hammer for chipping off slag from arc welding. This
is one of those hanging up there. There's a rock hammer,

(43:52):
an east wing rock hammer, which is quite useful if
you're doing brickwork or just sort of tidying things up
from a masonry point of view. I think there's one
other hammer hanging up there as well. Oh, and then
there's my mallet that I bought that I made almost
Shivers forty eight years ago or something like that and
would work class, which I was using the other day

(44:12):
while I was working doing chopping in a mortise for
this new lock. So I've decided to bring my front
door into the twenty first century, that's where we're at now,
a twenty first yeah, twenty first century by going for
a digital lock. And I've installed them before and found
them quite useful. This is kind of that, plus more

(44:33):
in the sense that this gale digital lock that I'm
putting in has also got a dead bolt, which I
quite like, or a dead latch in there as well.
And so I've chopped in the mortars into the door.
Yesterday I did the chopping out. I'm sure there's a
more technical way of that chopping out for the striker

(44:54):
plate and the recesses into the door. JAM did that yesterday.
So today, after I finished pane of the door, hopefully
I'll be able to put that digital lock together, program
it to my phone, etc. Job done. Shoes a password,
all that were pass code whatever it is, but this
one's got you can obviously a lot of them. You

(45:15):
can link to your phone now so that if someone
comes to the door and you need to let them in.
You can do it from your phone, but also a
proximity sensor so it will automatically open if it registers
your phone. So if it's in the back pocket, you're
standing at the doorstep with bags of shopping in both hands,
the door opens. Well, asn't it unlocks. It doesn't open
for you, but it unlocks. That's pretty cool anyway. I'll

(45:35):
put up some photos when I finished doing that particular
Yale lock right, yah, ten minutes half to seven, as
I say, guest after eight o'clock, so this is your
hour to chat. Pete. Love you work. But they are
hammers that you know that no one cares unless you're
a builder. Well, no, I think that people can get
passionate about hammers, even if they're not builders. I think

(46:00):
personally it's kind of that one of those objects that
pretty much everyone's got in the house. Even if you
don't have many tools, you probably have a hammer. Wouldn't
you floating around somewhere in the house. I think you would? Ellen,
Good morning to you, Ellen, Ellen, talk to me talking,

(46:20):
he me go for good good good.

Speaker 6 (46:23):
Yeah, I've got a nice little Amma. It's an upholster's
numbers to the end and a tiny little claw and
you just you know, all of tacks, pick it up,
stack it in and the whay you go. That's not
what I'm That's not what I'm phoning about. But I've
got a standard radiot of deck which I want to

(46:44):
raise up about ninety millimeters just so it's closer to
the to the door of the right slider at the
end of the house. It's six meters by three meters
and I was and it's got a retainable on the
other side, so it just sits on ledges sure now
and retainable. So I was thinking of just laying like

(47:04):
seventy millimeter joyce straight over the top of the existing
deck and putting new planks over the top of that. Yep,
you're seeing issues with that.

Speaker 7 (47:15):
Not really, no, I mean, I suppose the only slightly
challenging thing is like, could you I'm just thinking, could
you do it with a timber that you could find
at your local merchant as opposed to something that you
might have to rip down, because it's quite a lot
of timber to rip down. But I guess if you
went for as long as you can find an h

(47:36):
three point two treated seventy five by x seventy five
x fifty, which has ends up being about sixty nine
by forty five, So sixty nine plus you're decking on top.
That would get you to that ninety mil, wouldn't it.

Speaker 6 (47:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

Speaker 7 (47:53):
And then fixing I've seeing it down. How would you?
What are you thinking about fixing them down?

Speaker 6 (47:59):
Well, I just maybe just screwing it right through the
new rail, through the old deck planks, get into the
old joys, even just missing me where the screws go
for the plank sometimes.

Speaker 7 (48:11):
Yeah, I think that's a sensible way of doing it,
because a ninety mili nail driven through the top won't
give you the purchase, whereas if you got let's say,
a one fifty screw suitable for exterior use because they
are going galve or there's some Actually, one of the
guys from there's a company called Simpson Strong Tie that

(48:32):
make all sorts of fixings or supply all sorts of fixings,
and one of their guys drop me off a couple
of boxes a little bits and pieces to the workshop
this week, including some like one fifty long structural screws.
So have a look for that, but yeah, I would
just fix them down. The other thing that I'm curious

(48:52):
about at the moment and just fallow Like most people
I know, watch some stuff online, some little videos, and
I see overseas American builders tend to use a tape
over the top of their joys before all they put
down their decking. Now I've not seen anyone really in
New Zealand do it. To be fair, I don't even

(49:15):
know whether you can get that type of decking tape,
and I've always wondered about its effectiveness in terms of
is it a genuine concern that when we fix decking
down to the top of joists that the fact that
that's two flat surfaces pushing together, you're trapping moisture in there.
Will you get decay because that's an area that won't ventilate.

(49:37):
And I guess that's what that decking tape is for.
But I've never used it, but I am kind of
curious now.

Speaker 6 (49:44):
Well, funnily enough, i've seen those.

Speaker 7 (49:48):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 6 (49:51):
I've built a timber staircase and half of the deck
which I'm now extending. This is what I'm talking to
you about using that tape, Okay, because I I've replaced
the decking planks and the planks on the stairs, a
couple of arms, and and what I found is all
the the what do you call back the steps on

(50:14):
the stringers because they've had multiple nails and screws, and
they do collect water and they do rot. So I
I put new strings in, and I put tape over
all the stairs and the and the and the vertical droppers,
and a new deck just put when I'm extending the

(50:36):
other one, which I've got to step in there on
the minute step between the two decks. That's what I'm
talking to you. I've used the tape all across there too.

Speaker 7 (50:45):
How interesting. I must have a bit more research on
that and find out, you know, is the area.

Speaker 6 (50:50):
I think it's better with screws because it's kind of
binding itself into the tapes and you get a bit
of seal.

Speaker 8 (50:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (51:00):
Interesting, because like I I there's one job where I
built the deck. It was probably nineteen ninety one ninety two, right,
and then I was back there in two thousand and
the decking, which was the radiator Pine, had kind of
reached the end of its life, so that was fine.
We just ripped all of the decking off, and the

(51:22):
Joys themselves was still in actually pretty good condition, so
I didn't need to do anything with the Joye kind
of change the shape of it a little bit and
then relayed new What did I use? I think it
was Vitex over the top, But I reckon those joys
will last. Well, They've already lasted close to thirty years,
so I don't see why they wouldn't last at least

(51:44):
another ten or fifteen probably.

Speaker 6 (51:47):
And probably the treatment these days of.

Speaker 7 (51:51):
Yeah, maybe the treatments, but certainly fixing your decking down
with screws and then in your instance, if you can
find some h three point two seventy five y fifty
and then screw fixed that down kind of, I suppose
you try and work out where your decking is and
make sure the screws through where it's going to be

(52:11):
covered by the decking. And then yeah, the decking tape
so someone's taxed through it's a waterproof membrane. I get
that part. I'm just thinking about in the end, you've
still got two flat surfaces sitting against each other, right,
But all you're doing is stopping the potential for moisture
to soak through the joist because you've got that waterproof
tape on top of it.

Speaker 6 (52:32):
Yeah, yep, I guess is dimortel go. Yeah. Actually, now
that you're talking about this in detail, when I was
picking up my last load of decking planks from the
Droos store, they go said, the actual the ridges, you know,
the grip tread. Yes, the ridges should go on the

(52:56):
underneath because they're not there for grip. They're there to
help the moisture drip off on the underneath condensation.

Speaker 7 (53:03):
And to be fair, I've had well, this is really
interesting because I've had so many conversations about this over
the years. I have always used the grip shread grippy
side up, the grooves up for things like treads right
or perhaps around the border just to give a visual differential,
or maybe on a landing or something like that where

(53:24):
you want it to have some slip resistance. But it
does make a lot of sense if you flip that
up the other way, then what you're doing is creating ventilation.
So you're allowing for drainage in that surface where you've
got two bits of timber fastened against each other, where
they will get wet, and if they're not sealed, that
will cause rotting, so I think I think it's one

(53:47):
of those things. You can use it either way, but
there is an advantage to having the grooved or the
grip side down so that you're not trapping moisture between
those two surfaces. Interesting. Hey, much appreciate all enjoy that job.
It'll be awesome. And like I say, just have a
look at Simpson Strong Tie for those fixings. You'll find
those screws there awesome, the very best.

Speaker 8 (54:10):
Take care.

Speaker 7 (54:12):
I think I might have started something about the hammers
as well. Did my carpentry apprenticeship forty years ago with Fletcher's.
Still got my twenty ounce est wing, says Patrick. I
had for many years a sixteen ounce est wing when
I first started building. Then I can recall getting a

(54:35):
twenty two ounce straight claw st wing, which, to be fair,
I loved to bits until one day somebody walked into
the office and or to the site shed and went, hey,
can I borrow your hammer? I was like, yeah, all right,
and I never saw it again. I can't remember who
that person was because I would hunt you down, to

(54:56):
be fair, But anyway, that prompted me to go out
and spend at that time what I felt was a
lot of money, about three hundred bucks buying one of
these Martinez titanium hammers, which I have to say has
actually proved to be pretty damn good. But I still
miss my twenty two ounce est wing from back in

(55:16):
the day straight Claw. I like the straight Claw, but
the Martins has been quite good, just quietly. But they
are eyewateringly expensive now. I think they're about six hundred
bucks these days. But I love you fire three year
texts about your hammers. I quite like that. Pete tools
in general, just never throw them away. I got boxes

(55:38):
and boxes of old tools that I'm slowly working through
and making them nice then putting them up on the
walls of the shed. I'd say two thousand hand tools
and the tools I actually use for it on shadow
boards three meters wide and two meters high, so I
don't have the wall space for that. I love the
idea of a shadow board, but I just find you

(55:59):
can get far more tools into a draw than you
can onto a shadow board. It just takes up. I
just don't have the space. My shoot is pretty choker,
to be fair. Two thousand hand talks. Oh, I'm not
sure that I want to go there. I think I've

(56:20):
got enough, and I think I actually went through the
other day and gave a bit of stuff away because
I forget it's just enough. But then again, whenever I
go to the flea market and I find a nice chisel,
I also can't resist, So I feel your pain. I
eight hundred eighty ten eighty the number. Call twenty one
minutes after seven will take short Bak. We'll be back
with Tash straight after.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
The break, turning ohs into She'll be right the resident
builder with Peter Wolfcam and Independent Building Supplies a future
of Kiwi building today.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Call Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty News Talks.

Speaker 7 (56:54):
B Oh, Look, I think I've I've had a stream
of conversation here that we could spend quite a long
time on with the hammers. I seriously, I love the
text about it, and please indulge me because I just
wanted to read this text out without being all about me.
But Zara has sent through this text. Hello, mister Wolfcap,
that's very formal. I listened to you on Sundays. I'm

(57:15):
fifty five and I've got a hammer that belonged to
my dad, which he had from the early nineteen sixties.
Wooden't handle and I treasure it. Side note, my son
came to I think it was a Mity ten show
when he was ten years old and he wanted to
sort of say hello, and he did and got a photo.
Apparently that's very nice. From ten years ago, he's now
twenty in a qualified builder. Thanks for your show, Zara.

(57:39):
That's a very very kind text. Thank you very very
much for that. That's made my day to be fair. Yes,
I'll go back and have a look at some of
these texts about hammers in just a moment. But first up, Tash,
good morning to you.

Speaker 6 (57:56):
Oh thanks for the core.

Speaker 14 (57:59):
I have.

Speaker 9 (58:02):
Two. I need to get my house up to their
Healthy Standards series out and I need extractor fans in
the main bathroom in an on Sweet, Yes bathroom. The
on Sweet bathroom is an extension that's been built onto
the end of the house. Yes, so I think it's
got well I don't know what it's called, but the

(58:24):
outside wall. But you can't get through it in the ceiling,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 8 (58:31):
Like it's and then the extensions built.

Speaker 9 (58:33):
So in the extension part for the bathroom and the bedroom,
there's no way to get into the ceiling. So I'm wondering,
now do I have to? So first I want to
know is it okay to use those extractor fans that
go straight through the wall, yes, instead of the ones

(58:53):
in the ceiling and go out.

Speaker 14 (58:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (58:55):
I mean, look, I would argue that potentially they're not
quite as effective, but in terms of compliance with healthy homes, yes,
So as long as it's the right size, it's probably
got to be about one hundred and fifty meter diameter,
then yes, you can go through the wall.

Speaker 9 (59:11):
So I know nothing about them, but I searched them
last night on Google.

Speaker 13 (59:14):
Yep, what powers them?

Speaker 8 (59:15):
I couldn't figure out what powers them?

Speaker 7 (59:17):
So you will need to get power to it, so electricity.
So typically, and this is one of the reasons that
we often do them through the ceiling. So if you're retrofitting,
there's going to be a light anyway in the ceiling
and the electrician you'll need to get an electrician to
do this work, can run a cable from the light
to the fan in some cases and power it from there,

(59:38):
or they might be able to get a separate cable
back down to the switch. But if they can't, then
they can just power it off. The light circuit and
a couple of things there without wanting to make it
terribly complicated. There's a new type of extractor that's available,
which is it sensors the humidity and the room and

(59:59):
comes it might run at a low rate all of
the time, which I think is an advantage, and then
it ramps up extraction when the humidity rises in the room.
So rather than relying on it in this instance the
tenant to turn the fan on, it can stay on
and it ramps up when needed. And so have a

(01:00:19):
look at sam x Stommas. They've got a range of
fans for that. So through the walls, okay, through the
ceilings probably better. But you might find that the electrician,
when you get them to come and have a look
at it, they might say, actually I can go, I
can do a roof kit and I can go through
the roof. But obviously then you might need to get
a roofer to add some flashings, et cetera.

Speaker 9 (01:00:41):
Yeah, okay, so, oh my gosh, I don't even know.
Now do I need to get a builder and an
electrician to get this done? And what kind of costs
am I looking at?

Speaker 7 (01:00:54):
I depending on sort of you know, I mean, some
electricians will say, look, I'm happy to do a penetration
or something like that. Certainly, going through the wall, if
it's you know, conventional framing and maybe weatherboards, most electricians
will be happy making a penetration through there. If you
were to go through the roof, I think most of

(01:01:14):
them would probably say, look, you need to get a
roof to do a flashing and to put a what
they call a witch's cap around the penetration or a
flexible flashing around there. So certainly going through the wall
might be simpler and should be able to be done
by an electrician.

Speaker 9 (01:01:30):
You know how I said that you can't get into
the ceiling if I go through the wall. I'm sorry,
I have no idea. How's the electrician going to get
from the light to the outside wall. When the lights internal.

Speaker 7 (01:01:44):
Wall, there's always gaps, right, so there'll be you know,
on the underside of the ceiling, there'll be rafters, there
will be ceiling strapping, and then the plaster board, and
there might be a passageway that they can go through
the light with a little feeder or they use a
little camera or something like that and they can find
a way down. Or it might be that they look

(01:02:05):
at it and go, actually, know what, I'm really sorry.
I'm going to have to cut a couple of holes
in the ceiling that you're going to have to patch
up later on. So these jobs and that's why I'm
probably not able to give you a ballpark figure. Yeah,
because depending on access and so on. So I I
think start with an electrician. There are some specialists who

(01:02:26):
just do extraction, so you might want to go down
that path if you're looking in your area, but generally
an electrician will be able to do that work for you.

Speaker 9 (01:02:36):
Yeah, because that's the bathroom on Sweet is the only
place left in the house with those what are they
called the rectangle boards that slot together.

Speaker 8 (01:02:47):
I'm thank you.

Speaker 7 (01:02:48):
We might have the.

Speaker 9 (01:02:51):
Yeah, okay, go down and another boy ceiling.

Speaker 7 (01:02:55):
Well, that would make your life simpler too if you
ended up saying, hey, look, this is an opportunity to
regrade it. And in fact I did something quite similar
two or three weeks ago. An old plaster ceiling that
willn't holding paint anymore, and I changed the extraction, went
for one of these cimics fans with a humidity sensor,
and then I replaced the ceiling lining.

Speaker 13 (01:03:14):
At the same time, it's probably good luck with that
it will.

Speaker 7 (01:03:18):
Make a big difference. But I really do, especially for
rental properties. To be really honest, I like the idea
that the fan runs all of the time and ramps
up when it's texts for humidity in the room. I
think it's great. All the best, take care all. Then
Harry talk to me about Hell's Mate.

Speaker 16 (01:03:39):
Oh yeah, right, So where did the story start?

Speaker 9 (01:03:43):
Me?

Speaker 16 (01:03:44):
Me and my family. We were up heading up to
Pecton to go camping up there, and anyway, Dad's a builder,
so you think a builder would bring a hammet, you know,
bring the pigs, the pigs and where to go buy
a hammer on the way, So that hammer has been
living a pretty useless life up until a couple of

(01:04:05):
days ago. It's just and is a sphere.

Speaker 8 (01:04:07):
But anyway, so.

Speaker 16 (01:04:09):
I had a teacher only day on Friday, and I
do a bit of work for dad, and then out
of school and weekends and all that kind of stuff.
But anyway, so I decided I'll go give him a hand.
And he was doing quite a quite a high dick
since it's on a bit of a hell side, and

(01:04:30):
we got all the piles where it's you know, you've
got to have all your bracing and nail plates. And yeah,
there was a nail and the snail plate, which I
didn't really like where it was. I thought, I'll try
and tell you out. So long story short, my hammer
slipped off. The slipped off the nail and towards me

(01:04:53):
and knocked my front teeth out.

Speaker 7 (01:04:58):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I can see it. I can see it.

Speaker 16 (01:05:02):
Yeah you can see it happening, can't you. I went
over to death and I dad, what I do not
a good chunk of these front two, you know, my
two middle front teeth out and he goes, oh, I'll
call mum nom, and my mum called the dentist, and anyway,
were shot down to the dentist and they they they

(01:05:23):
patched them up. They look quite good, but I'm not
sure of their structural integrity. But anyway, what was more
so the concern? I said. It was my school formal
that night, and yeah, anyway, and all got fixed stuff
and I was telling people there and they couldn't believe it.
So yeah, public space.

Speaker 7 (01:05:44):
Well yeah I can. I can just see it happening.
You'd want to kind of keep that hammer and just
hanging on the wall. Somewhere, wouldn't you to remind you
of that? Harry appreciate the story. Oh, eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty. If you'd like to talk building and construction,
we'll take your calls up to eight o'clock. We have
a guest after eight o'clock. It's Jeffrey Clark from gas

(01:06:05):
en Z getting some quite interesting texts some questions for
him as well. Take sure break will come back with
Andy in just a moment.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
Helping you finish that five butte fixed.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
You started the resident builder with Peter Wolfcamp and Independent
Building Supplies the future of Kiwi building today Call eight.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
News Talks quick.

Speaker 7 (01:06:27):
Text from Karen Morning Peak. That Yale lock that you mentioned,
would it work on a fire door? Possibly? The best
bit is just to give Yale a New Zealand the call,
So ask for Ronnie. He'll sort you out. I'm pretty sure,
um and ah, someone's been to see the Frank House
that I was at last week in why can I

(01:06:50):
You're right, it is beautiful. I'll tell you a bit
more about that in the moment. But Andy, greetings.

Speaker 12 (01:06:56):
Greetings to you.

Speaker 5 (01:06:57):
Yes, two things, First thing I heard you mentioned flea market. Yes,
much though Bob Brown's Bay. He's got four lockers full
of tools and he goes every week telling.

Speaker 7 (01:07:07):
Old Tools which market is This is the one at
Browns Bay. I haven't been there yet.

Speaker 5 (01:07:13):
He's been going there for over twenty years. He's part
of the furniture.

Speaker 7 (01:07:17):
Where's the market in Brown's Bay? I do love a
good market.

Speaker 5 (01:07:20):
It's right opposite New World.

Speaker 7 (01:07:22):
Yeah, on a Saturday or Sunday.

Speaker 5 (01:07:24):
It's on Sunday.

Speaker 7 (01:07:26):
Ah, normally I go.

Speaker 5 (01:07:28):
To Central Many Tools. He's got a regular customers that
go back. He's been doing the markets for over thirty years.

Speaker 7 (01:07:35):
Then right, I'm just going to make a note to self.
What's his name, Bob Bob?

Speaker 5 (01:07:39):
You can't miss him. It's he He's got four great,
big tables full of tools.

Speaker 7 (01:07:44):
Did he used to be at the Tekapoona market.

Speaker 5 (01:07:47):
I think he may have done. Yeah, he's in his
seventies now. But you can't he's like a weed. You
can't kill him.

Speaker 12 (01:07:54):
All right.

Speaker 7 (01:07:54):
I know we're not going to encourage that.

Speaker 12 (01:07:56):
All right.

Speaker 7 (01:07:56):
That gives me something to do next Sunday. Thank you.
Right now, to your point, this is the main thing
I want to do.

Speaker 5 (01:08:01):
Yes, go, there's a there's a little hole in the
in the roof where the plaster is when I say
from ceiling, and also there's it's got dvs. Now, the
first thing, it's only a little hole, about probably half
an inch in diameter, and it's not far from the
smoke alarm. Now, I thought I could put smoke alarm

(01:08:26):
over the hole and then you wouldn't see it.

Speaker 7 (01:08:29):
But what about the holes that from the screws that
held the smoke alarm to the ceiling.

Speaker 5 (01:08:36):
They're very very tiny screws, very tight, but you probably suggest.

Speaker 7 (01:08:45):
The other thing is you've got to go is the
whole leer because there was an old light fitting or
something like that? Is the whole lear because I've got
a leak and the ceiling stand to fall apart.

Speaker 5 (01:08:55):
No, there was, there was a minor leak and the
league was repaired.

Speaker 7 (01:08:59):
Okay, yep. To be fear, whether you have to patch
two screws or a teen millime hole, it's probably the
same amount of work in the sense that a little
bit of stopping compound fill that sand it, and then
if you're really lucky, you might be able to blend
in some new paint. But chances are you're repainting the

(01:09:21):
whole ceiling because you'll see that patch. Oh no, most
likely unless the paint's relatively new, but typically new paint
over old paint, it will just because old paint wears
out right in a sense, you'll always see that. So
I think either way you're probably up for a little
bit of a repair and a paint of a reasonably

(01:09:42):
large section of the ceiling. All the best for that,
and thanks for the tip about Bob Browns Bay Market Tools.
It's hard for me to walk past a nice chisel,
funnily enough, and so for all the work that I've
been doing the last couple of days, where I've been
doing quite a lot of chiseling, I'm using a random

(01:10:04):
collection of old chisels, old Sheffield steel, which is all
some of them squared rather than than beveled on the sides,
most of them with wooden handles. Some of them have
been you know, they are a lot shorter than they
were probably when they were made. But that's that's the
beauty of old tools and that quality old steel. Matt,

(01:10:26):
good morning to you.

Speaker 5 (01:10:30):
Here.

Speaker 15 (01:10:31):
Hi, I'll sit there, I'll put a smoke over a hole,
but but then you've still.

Speaker 7 (01:10:38):
Got the screw holes from where you fitted the smoke
detectors to the ceiling. But that's maybe easier.

Speaker 15 (01:10:44):
To How can I help a guttering problems. I've got
a lockwood house. I've only got one corner that I've
got a tin water train and in the other exact
opposite corner it started to overflow. And because there's no

(01:11:07):
downpipe in that corner, so I think the piles might
have yeah, yeah, and so there's not much room between
the gutter in the the iron there's only about two inches.
That's real difficult to clean it out, but I do
it every year enough. But we're drilling a hole through

(01:11:32):
and somehow trying to put a down pipe in be
an idea?

Speaker 5 (01:11:38):
Or what?

Speaker 15 (01:11:38):
What do you reckon?

Speaker 8 (01:11:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (01:11:40):
Well, I mean it's a practical solution, isn't it. So
if the water is holding in one area, unless you
want to take all of the spouting down and re
refix it with fall to the outlet, then just creating
an outlet where it happens to pond is not a
bad idea. What type of spouting is it metal or PVC?

Speaker 15 (01:12:00):
PVC?

Speaker 7 (01:12:01):
Okay, well, then that's relatively straightforward because typically all of
those systems is basically only Mali that I think is
readily available. They'll come with like outlets and droppers, so
you just cut their section out install the factory made dropper.
But then the question is what are you going to
do with all that water? Because I guess there's no

(01:12:23):
stormwater connection below that, So you then want to kind
try and connect your down pipe to your existing storm
water somehow. You don't want it just going onto the ground.

Speaker 15 (01:12:34):
Yeah, because I'm rural, and okay, the tanks on the opposite,
it's probably I don't know, for away to the tank,
so I wouldn't run these to the garden or.

Speaker 7 (01:12:48):
Get another little tank, you know, just hock up you know,
well seriously, I mean it's you know, water conservation is
a good thing, right, So get a little thousand liter
tank and just pop that underneath that new downpipe and
capture that water rather than wasting it.

Speaker 15 (01:13:05):
I've got a two hundred to drum under it at
the moment, catching trips.

Speaker 7 (01:13:11):
If it works, it works, right, So yeah, it.

Speaker 15 (01:13:19):
Doesn't take long. No, it doesn't pay long to fill.

Speaker 7 (01:13:22):
No, well it's true too. Look, I think in the end,
you know, the best solution would be take all the
spouting down rehang it, put it all back up, and
with that, if it is Marley, for example, the PVC,
you could probably reuse about eighty percent of it right.
You might break a few clips, and you might have
to put in adjoint somewhere, but you could disassemble it

(01:13:43):
and get it to flow the right way. But if
you can't, they're just putting an outlet where it's hanging,
where it's holding water, and then collecting that water making
sure it doesn't become a nuisance. It's not a bad solution.
So hey, good luck with that, Matt, and all the
very best. The other thing that I noticed when I
was doing some work the other day, and I think

(01:14:06):
I put up a little video or something about me
cleaning out the spouting. The little plastic ham scoop that
you can buy. I think it's raven. It's a bright
orange thing, just the right size for getting in that
gap between in my case, the concrete tiles and the
spouting to clean it out. That worked really, really well.
But what I had noticed over time is often with

(01:14:27):
the older Marley clips, you just fix them in with
a galvanized clout, and they had started to literally walk
their way out, which meant that the brackets were hanging down,
which meant that the spouting was deflecting and so on.
So while I was cleaning out the gutter myself and
my son, where I could, I would take those screw
those nails out and replace them with a little stainless

(01:14:48):
steel screw and that kind of pulled the bracket back up,
which made the spouting look better. And that will last
longer than those nails. It's amazing. Just nails will just
walk their way out of the timber over time. So
there you go. That's another little tip. But those little
orange handled sort of gutter scoop turned out to be
quite a good investment. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
We'll be back with Chris after the break where di

(01:15:11):
Y gets unstuck.

Speaker 1 (01:15:13):
Cal eight eight The resident Builder with Peter Wolfcamp and
Independent Building supplies the future of Kiwi Building Today.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
News Dogs b.

Speaker 7 (01:15:24):
Oh I mew. Someone started on saws? Hey, Pete? Can
I get your started on saws? Got my first carpentry
toolkit many years ago, which included two distant saws from
the USA. I bet you've got them, yeah, I think
I do still have some old hand saws. To be fair,
I did get rid of a few others because I
figured that just in the end, it's just taking up space, right.

(01:15:47):
I mean, I still use handsaws regularly, just the old ones.
Oh maybe I didn't get rid of them. I suspect
that I didn't. I keep thinking that I'm getting rid
of stuff, but I don't. I just keep accumulating tools
because they speak to you. I think they do. Certainly
a good chisel at a flea market. I can't go

(01:16:09):
past that anywhere. Now I'm off to Bob's probably to
go and see this this Browns Bay market. Maybe not
some maybe next week. Yes, I might do that. Chris,
Good morning to you, ello, Chris, Chris, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 10 (01:16:26):
Yeah, get a I'm looking for a solution.

Speaker 16 (01:16:28):
I don't know whether I need.

Speaker 10 (01:16:30):
I don't know if I need NASA or I've got
a hairline crack in a hardy linear weatherboard.

Speaker 12 (01:16:40):
Yep.

Speaker 10 (01:16:42):
And I think I know how it happened. About four
years ago, the wind mouled scriber going underneath the aluminium window.
I needed to get that replace that's sort of north facing.
And I got a so called handyman into sort of
few of them out and I was quite concerned when
he was doing it because he was using the old
nail gun and the impact, the impact, and actually he

(01:17:05):
split a couple of the wind mold described as the
new ones. I had lucky, I had a few more, right,
but I was concerned about them using the nail gun
and the impact. I don't know how you're supposed to
install those. But any rate, four years later, over hairline crack,
what do I do about it?

Speaker 7 (01:17:21):
Look, I think if it's a hairline crack, you could
just use some UV stabilized paintable silicon sealant and just
fill the crack with that and paint over it. Right,
if it's a hairline one.

Speaker 5 (01:17:35):
There's no gap there.

Speaker 15 (01:17:36):
You know, I'm with you.

Speaker 10 (01:17:38):
As soon as your fingernail you can't get.

Speaker 12 (01:17:40):
Anything in there.

Speaker 7 (01:17:42):
Uh yeah, you could still fill what's there with a
bit of sealant if you wanted to. The Other thing is,
if you're just concerned about weather tightness, you could just
get a little flashing made up and just put a
like a flat soaker you'd see on weatherboards. I've done
it on a number of occasions where it's just a

(01:18:02):
practical solution to preventing moisture, ingress, preventing water getting in there.
It's just a flat soaka over the top, you know,
and then just painted into the wall color. Otherwise your
next step is potentially replacing the board. But you know,
some fiber cement products can get a little bit fragile
over time, and so you risk you know, cracking or

(01:18:25):
damaging other boards while you're trying to replace the one
that you want to get fixed up.

Speaker 10 (01:18:32):
Can you sand that.

Speaker 7 (01:18:35):
The fiber cement board, Yeah.

Speaker 10 (01:18:40):
Cracks got a little bit proud in one.

Speaker 7 (01:18:44):
Yeah, it'll it'll swell a little bit when there's a
bit of moisture in there, So yes you can. I'd
take a sort of, you know, fairly cautious approach, but yes,
a little bit of paper, send it and you'll be fine.

Speaker 10 (01:18:56):
And what about the nail gun installing this bit of
a wind moldscriber?

Speaker 5 (01:19:00):
So that happened.

Speaker 7 (01:19:02):
I think like when you say nail gun, I presume
that what he's using is a finishing gun and rather
than a framing gun. So let's say he's using a
finishing gun, hopefully using stainless steel fasteners. I have to
say my preference is still to pre drill and use
a galvanized nail or these days often a jolt screw

(01:19:25):
for something like that.

Speaker 10 (01:19:27):
Yeah, that's what I thought you would do. And when
he because he actually split to them and lucky I
had some spearway.

Speaker 7 (01:19:32):
Yeah, yeah, I think you know, if I mean, I
know that I've got several nail guns and I use
them all the time and that sort of thing. But
I think for some of this type of work, it's
not ideal. And also sometimes people are you know, they
might not change the nail, right, so they've used a
nail to do skirtings on the inside of the house

(01:19:54):
and then they use the same nail on the outside.
That'll only last a couple of years before it starts rusting, right,
So let's hope that that's not what they did. There
are exterior grade nails and ideally stay in the steel nails.
They are eye wateringly expensive, but that's what you should
be using for the exterior.

Speaker 15 (01:20:12):
Cool.

Speaker 7 (01:20:13):
Thanks nice chatting, Thank you all the best, Take care, Chris,
your neused talk, said b a couple of quick texts. Actually,
actually this one might have been from last last week,
so parapologies for the delay. Darren House built about fifteen
years ago, five degree iron roof with a large buttanyl
internal gutter. When should we look at having the buttanyl

(01:20:34):
areas checked to ensure the integrity is okay? Also, how
would they do this regards from Darren, I guess someone
who's familiar with the product is the best person to
go and have a look at it. And what you're
looking for is whether or not there's any bubbles, whether
or not any of the fixings from the substrate have
started to lift and visible, and whether all of the

(01:20:57):
laps are still well sealed. If you if you are
concerned about the durability, there are products that can be
overcoated on the buttantyl to give you a longer life.
So that's a good idea if you want to take
that approach. The Frank House at why can I This
is where I was two weeks ago. So Frank else
are off site manufacturer, so they make the panels in

(01:21:19):
the factory. They use the Flexi House system, so Flexi
House is kind of the ideas behind it. Frank Dwayne
and his team from Frank House will do the building
in their factory and then transported to site. And in
this instance I know they use the J and L
J frame, which is why I was down there. Interesting too,
they're also they've gone high performance joinery, so they've gone

(01:21:39):
the ambience joinery, which looked really amazing in this place.
And this is a house that's not completed yet. They
did a blower door test and they're at point four
air exchange or point four to six air exchanges, which
is pretty friggin awesome as well. So you get in
touch with the guys Frank House down and why can
I if you want to go and have a look
at it, I'm sure Dwayne would take you around right,

(01:22:00):
oh eight hundred and eighty. Actually, after the news, we've
got Jeffrey Clark from gas en Z, so we're chatting
with after the news, and I've got a couple of
updates about Dry July for you as well. We'll talk
about that after eight o'clock.

Speaker 3 (01:22:14):
Come on.

Speaker 2 (01:22:24):
Just measure twice, call once on eight.

Speaker 1 (01:22:35):
The resident builder with Peter Wolfcamp and Independent Building supplies
the future of Kiwi Building Today News Talks.

Speaker 7 (01:22:43):
B Mark, my producer is on fire this morning in
terms of his music choice, So taking a Walsky meet

(01:23:04):
is appropriate given that will Drive July got wrapped up
for me on Friday, So thank you to those people
who did contribute. I really really appreciated it. I set
myself a target of trying to raise one thousand dollars
for cancer support and research. Exceeded that. Actually it ended
up being close to just over seventeen hundred dollars. So

(01:23:25):
again to those people that contributed, thank you really do
appreciate it, and look, it was a good thing to do.
So drive your eyes wrapped up and we'll see what
decisions we make from here on in. But right now,
at seven minutes after eight, it is, of course loft
and time. So this is a little alarm clock that says, hey,
you know, it's a good idea. If the house has

(01:23:46):
been shut up overnight, go open a couple of doors
and windows a couple of minutes, just to let some
fresh air in. That's what in Germany anyway, they call
luften time. I think in America they've turned it into
burping the house in the morning. I think we'll come
up with a slightly more refined phrase, but for now
we'll stick with lift and time, which I encourage you

(01:24:06):
to do on a daily basis. In the morning's just
open the house up five ten minutes, close it up again,
get some fresh air in. It's a really good thing
to do radio eight minutes after eight and over the
last It's got to be a couple of years, but
it seems to be something that's front of mind for
a lot of people at the moment. And there's lots
of talk about transferring from essentially fossil fuels to renewables,

(01:24:32):
making a transition. Lots of New Zealand houses have got
either mains or bottled gas, maybe for water heating, you know,
the classic califont on the outside of the building. Maybe
you're cooking with gas on your hobs, or perhaps you're
using gas as part of your heating as well. And
lots of conversations around transitioning and so on. So I

(01:24:53):
know we've talked with ECA around sort of energy efficient
hot water heat pumps and the role they can play.
We've had discussions about SOLA, but I figured that it's
fair to get essentially both sides of the argument. So
they reached out to me, and I wanted to have
a chat with gas in z And so Jeffrey Clark,
the chief executive of Gas in ZED, joins us this

(01:25:14):
morning in a very good morning to you, Jeffrey.

Speaker 17 (01:25:16):
Good morning Peter, and it is a beautiful Wellington morning.
I have to say that Harbor is a mill pond.
There is a big round moon and not a breath
of wind. So just note that there is not a
breath of wind in Wellington and.

Speaker 7 (01:25:27):
It is that classic. You know, you can't beat Wellington
on a good day, and I wholeheartedly agree. I love
the city. Hey Jeffrey, just just first up, what is
gas in z and what do you do as an organization?

Speaker 8 (01:25:40):
Yeah, great question.

Speaker 17 (01:25:41):
Look, we're an industry association and we represent the whole
of the gas energy sector. So we have a vision
of a sustainable, zero missions New Zealand where Kiwi, household
and businesses can enjoy gas as a reliable, affordable energy source.
So we represent the producers, transmission, distribution, the retailers, the installers,

(01:26:01):
pretty much the whole right across the gas.

Speaker 8 (01:26:03):
So for financial gas, LPG and renewable gas.

Speaker 7 (01:26:07):
Can I just pick up on one thing because and
just an explanation from you that one of the I
guess one of the reasons that we're looking at transitioning
to renewable energy and in New Zealand because we produce
so much electricity from hydro. I guess from an environmental
point of view, from a pathway to carbon zero, we're going, okay, well,

(01:26:28):
let's get rid of the gas because that's fossil in
some cases, and we'll move to maybe rooftop sol or
hydro and I'm going to rip out my gas califont.
I'm going to put in a highly efficient energy hot
water heat pump because I want to get to carbon zero.
But you're saying that there is also low carbon or
carbon zero solutions for gas.

Speaker 12 (01:26:49):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 17 (01:26:50):
Something New Zealand is a bit behind the rest of
the world in this. So people will be familiar with
composting and the fact that gas is produced from landfills yep.
And that gas is methane. It's the same gas that
natural gases, and some people have moved to capture the
gas from landfills, but it's actually much more efficient if

(01:27:11):
you take your waste and New Zealand produces a lot
of organic waste from crop production, food production, green waste
from the cities, all of that. If you capture it
and intentionally collect it and put it into what's called
a digest you can produce very significant quantities of renewable gas.
So that's gas that's not adding additional carbon to the

(01:27:32):
environment because it was already waste stream that was going
to decompose anyway.

Speaker 8 (01:27:37):
And people have said, well, that's pie in the sky.
That's not really going to make a difference. I beg
to differ.

Speaker 17 (01:27:44):
In Denmark at the moment, they have a target of
producing one hundred percent of their natural gas needs from
renewable gas, and they hit that target on it for
a day last week and they are aiming to be
one hundred percent by twenty thirty five. Now we only
have one renewable gas facility here in Auckland, which is
in New Zealand, which is the amazing Reperoa facility which

(01:28:06):
takes Auckland's green.

Speaker 8 (01:28:07):
Waste and turns that into gas.

Speaker 17 (01:28:09):
Around the world, they are now producing these plants at scale,
and we have figured out that in New Zealand we
can produce five petadules of gas by twenty thirty five.
Now that's almost as much as all residential consumers use,
and twenty five petadules by twenty fifty, which are about
half what we currently use for industrial purposes.

Speaker 7 (01:28:30):
And in terms of using that gas captured from a
renewable source as in waste composting material. You don't need
to change the pipes and change the fittings to use
that gas, not at all.

Speaker 17 (01:28:44):
It is exactly the same molecule, but it's effectively a
version of the molecule that doesn't involve getting fossil gas
and introducing fossilide carbon to the atmosphere. You're just taking
carbon that's just grown in the last couple of years
on plants and trees. So it was taking its carbon
out of the atmosphere, and when you use it, it
goes back into the atmosphere. So from a carbon accounting
point of view, it's considered metzero zero.

Speaker 7 (01:29:07):
Okay that I mean, and look, I just through on
to stray down this, but I know that there's been
criticism in Auckland, you know, the food scraps recycling and
so on. I think it's a great scheme and I
would encourage people to use it because as I understand it,
it does go to reper they're capturing that gas there,
they're creating composts and they're using the gas. It's a
great idea.

Speaker 17 (01:29:26):
I think I used to be pretty skeptical about this
concept of the circular economy.

Speaker 9 (01:29:31):
YEP.

Speaker 12 (01:29:32):
Actually it's real.

Speaker 17 (01:29:34):
You know, you're you're avoiding waste, you're taking stuff that's
otherwise going to go to landfill, You're generating energy, you're
generating fertilizer and repero. They're actually putting heat into a
glasshouse and the CO two from the process to make
the tomatoes grow fast.

Speaker 8 (01:29:48):
It's amazing.

Speaker 7 (01:29:49):
Yeah, I think it is too. So again, you know,
I find myself in the situation where I'm having conversations
with homeowners and with builders and so on about I
guess the general perception is somewhere out there, we're going
to run out of gas, right, and that because we
haven't invested in explore and so on. We keep hearing

(01:30:09):
stories about, you know, large manufacturing. There's organizations that require
significant amounts of gas going. We don't know that there's
going to be regular supply or guaranteed supply. And I
look at that and go, okay, Well, as a homeowner
that actually is connected to gas, should I transition and
go for renewables ie electricity, in order to allow for

(01:30:33):
more gas to go to industry where they really need it.
Does anything that I might do make any difference at all?

Speaker 17 (01:30:44):
It will make a very very very tiny difference, but
you need to get these things in perspective.

Speaker 7 (01:30:49):
Okay, So if you're.

Speaker 17 (01:30:51):
Thinking about the country as a whole, you know, the
natural gas that we're talking about, it's an important part
of it, you make. It's about fourteen percent of the
energy we use New zeal so there's quite a lot there.
But the residential use of natural gas is small, it's
just six percent of the total. So there's ninety four

(01:31:11):
percent of the gas that's being used is being used
by commercial and industrial users, and some of those use
more than all three hundred thousand natural gas households use,
so you've got a few big consumers.

Speaker 8 (01:31:23):
So it's a question of balance.

Speaker 17 (01:31:25):
And you know, if a residential household decides not to
use gas, well then it will make a very very
very very very tiny difference to the amount of gas used.
Obviously across three hundred thousand household it'll make a bigger difference,
but really it's nowhere near as big as the total
amount used by individual, large, large industrial consumers. So really, yes,

(01:31:50):
it comes down to choice, but it's not going to
make a big difference. And I do appreciate that there's
a lot of conflicting information out there that makes it
really hard for users. So what I whatever I can
do to help clarify that, I'm happy to do.

Speaker 3 (01:32:06):
So.

Speaker 7 (01:32:07):
Where you know, in terms of large commercial industrial users,
do you get a sense from some of them that
they are concerned about whether or not there will be
gas for their businesses lets in ten years time?

Speaker 17 (01:32:19):
Absolutely they are, and you know they are right to be.
Some of those businesses they use a lot of gas
and they have very inflexible demand for it. So if
you're melting glass, your melting steel, you need the very
high fast heat that a flame can produce. It's very
hard to switch to an electric source instead. Many businesses can,

(01:32:43):
and you know they should if they can, if that
makes sense.

Speaker 8 (01:32:46):
For their business model.

Speaker 17 (01:32:48):
And probably what's happening with the large industrials, they're saying, well,
we know our current plant has eight years of its
life left. Let's think what our energy source is going
to be in eight years time. Will it be electricity?
Will we still be using gas now? I should just
be clear that there is still going to be gas
available in the future, and don't take it from me.

(01:33:09):
The Commerce Commission, who is one of the regulators of
the gas sector, recently concluded a gas sector study, and
they said, and I'm quoting here, domestic gas production is
declining faster than anyone expected. Yet natural gas, including some
biogas blends, remains an essential fuel for many homes of businesses.
We expect gas used to continue for at least twenty years.

(01:33:31):
So yes, some of the big old fields are coming
to an end, but there are smaller, newer fields that
still have life left in them and they will continue
to produce gas for quite some time. So from the
industry's point of view, residential consumers are great. They have
a very predictable load, they're distributed around, and there's a

(01:33:53):
lot of them, so they're a very attractive customer segment
for retailers. So retailers are going to want to keep
supplying the gas it's available to residential households for a
long time.

Speaker 7 (01:34:05):
One of the other things. But I guess it's that
conversation around the moving from your existing gas connection. In fact,
I've got a text if you don't mind. This is
because I did say, hey, look, Jeffrey's going to be
on the show if you've got a question. So here's
a classic from a gentleman, Mark who's text through a
question for the gas man, that'd be you. He makes

(01:34:25):
a comment about labor letting us down in terms of
considering transitioning. One of the problems I have is the
high line charge. Is if I transition slowly, I'm still
stuck with a gas line charge. If I do all
the appliances in one hit, there is a hefty disconnection fee.
Does your guest know if the government are going to
do anything to reduce this cost. When we installed gas

(01:34:45):
fifteen years back, there was a big push that this
was the way to go. That's from Mark, So I
guess that's a genuine real life situation. What happens if
I transition and I didn't realize there was a significant
Is there a significant disconnection fee?

Speaker 17 (01:35:02):
Well, unfortunately it differs from loss the country, So there
are different retailers and there are different distribution networks and
the cost that gets passed on to the retailer onto
the consumer. This is depending on precisely where what their
chads are.

Speaker 2 (01:35:19):
On the whole.

Speaker 17 (01:35:21):
Those that there has been a lot of hysteria about
those disconnection charges, with some extreme outliers on the whole.

Speaker 8 (01:35:29):
Talk to your retailer.

Speaker 17 (01:35:30):
That's the best place to go. Don't rely on he said.
She said, ask your retailer what are the options? Can
you just cap the meat at your property? Do you
need to disconnect and find out what are the charges?
They will know what the charges will be and they
can tell you.

Speaker 7 (01:35:44):
Okay, So it may well vary. The other thing that
seems to vary this is from Ireland to Ireland. Someone's
picked up on this. Can you please differench between South
Island bottled LPG in North Island natural gas?

Speaker 8 (01:35:58):
So absolutely?

Speaker 7 (01:36:00):
What's that? How did we arrive at a situation where
there's two types of gas fly in New Zealand.

Speaker 17 (01:36:06):
Well, let me just differentiate between the gases in the
first place. So, yes, in New Zealand we have both
natural gas and alpag and that's especially true for residential
In the North Island there is natural gas and there
is LPG. Natural gas always comes through the pipes that
are connected to your house. Yes, LPG almost always comes

(01:36:28):
in cylinders, although in some places in the South Island
it is connected through pipes. But in the South Island
there is only LPG. The gas that comes to you
in delivered in cylinders and bottles. And in Wan a
contineered in christ Church, you can get it through the pipes.
So they are pretty much interchangeable. Natural gas and LPG.
They are used the same in your house, same appliances,

(01:36:52):
but they have very different supply chains. It's kind of
like apples and pears. They're both nice, crunchy fruit. You
can stick them in your lunch boxes, you can bake
pies out of them, but they have completely different supply chains,
so they come from different orchards. When you Zealand are
having a supply problem with natural gas because the natural
gas fields are.

Speaker 8 (01:37:10):
Declining, yep.

Speaker 17 (01:37:11):
But we are not having a supply problem with LPG,
and we won't have a supply plub supply problem with
LPG already. About half of that LPG is important. It
comes mostly from Australia, and there is a huge supply
of LPG available in the world, so there really is
no question of shortage. If you're on LPG and you're
hearing conversations about shortage of gas supply, I think, oh,

(01:37:35):
they're talking about natural gas in the North Island.

Speaker 7 (01:37:38):
Right, Okay, So and I know people that you know
in particular, they like the idea of having a gas
hob and so they might they might be a fully
electric house, but they love having gas in the kitchen,
and so they'll just run that off a dedicated bottle.

Speaker 17 (01:37:53):
That's right, And it's actually pretty simple to if you're
on natural gas and you're concerned about natural gas, you
can pretty easily switch your appliances over to LPG. For
a hob and your kit it's almost always just a
matter of changing a little burning units yep's on top.
For the Califont, it's a little bit more complicated. Often

(01:38:14):
people say, well, the new ones will automatically switch between
the gases, and a lot of people say, well, I'll
just switch my Califon out that way. I don't even
change any piping anything else. I'll just switch it over
to an LPG one could be relatively cheap, so if
you are on natural gas, you can just switch over
to LPG.

Speaker 2 (01:38:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:38:35):
In terms of I suppose I'm fascinated by the renewables,
is that something that you genuinely see extending, because I
mean the reperi site I guess arguably works because it's
tied into the food scraps collection in Auckland Council. So

(01:38:56):
if other councils don't adopt this, or you can't get
sufficient resource to create the gas, so the composting material. Like,
do you know of any other renewal gas generation that
might be in the pipeline? Pardon the pun.

Speaker 2 (01:39:13):
It look yes.

Speaker 17 (01:39:14):
We did a big piece of work this year and
the government asked us to come up with a strategy
for biomethane and we produced a biomethane Strategy and action
plan for renewable gas. There is a huge amount of
the organic what we call fed stock, the materials that
you need available.

Speaker 8 (01:39:34):
In some ways.

Speaker 17 (01:39:35):
The municipal waste, the food scraps and so on, is
one of the harder ones to use because it's very mixed.

Speaker 8 (01:39:43):
You have the process that you got to get packaging
out of it, and so on.

Speaker 17 (01:39:46):
Around the world, the vast volume of renewable gas production
is generally done from either agricultural or industrial waste streams.
Where you know, it's a meat works, it's got a
steady stream of effluent coming out of it, and that's
very high energy and it's mostly going to waste, or
it's a food manufacturing facility and it has waste material

(01:40:08):
coming out of but that's all good organic stuff which
could go to landfill or compost.

Speaker 8 (01:40:12):
But could also be used.

Speaker 17 (01:40:13):
So that's why, you know, in our strategy we said, look,
we know that we have the resources in New Zealand
to very quickly produce five pedadules of gas, and we
believe we can get up to twenty five peda duels
by twenty fifty because we know the resources are there.
What it needs is some leadership from the government to say, okay,

(01:40:33):
we want this to be part of our future. In
response to your question, are there people out there trying
to make a reality?

Speaker 8 (01:40:41):
Absolutely there are.

Speaker 17 (01:40:42):
There are lots of developers at the moment who are
a scoping these plants, who are talking with the suppliers
of waste and so on.

Speaker 7 (01:40:49):
Because I mean, you know, again, I know that circular economy,
the notion kind of feels a bit hippy and all
the rest of it. But the reality is, you know,
if we're really honest, right, But the reality is is
that as it becomes more expensive to dispose of your waste,
finding somewhere where you can turn waste to resource is
a really good thing.

Speaker 17 (01:41:10):
Absolutely, And so one of the elements that we propose
to the government is that as a country, we shouldn't
be sending to landfill things that could usefully be used
for another third of purpose. So we said, look, the
landfill operators, they've got a good business model, they've invested
in good faith. Don't pull a rug from under them,
but signal now that in ten years time there won't

(01:41:32):
be any new organic material going to landfill. If it
can go into anaero digestion to produce energy and fertilizer.

Speaker 8 (01:41:38):
And so on, it should.

Speaker 17 (01:41:40):
So set a signal now and say, okay, we're going
to phase it out over the next ten years. And
in a few years time the stuff that's closest to
the city is and easier to will use that. In
a few more years time, a larger part of the
country won't be able to see it to landfill. And eventually,
in ten years time, none of this rich, valuable material
will be.

Speaker 8 (01:41:57):
Going to waste. It'll all be used to generate energy.

Speaker 17 (01:41:59):
And that will give the developers confidence that they can
invest now in a plant that's going to cost them
twenty million dollars and they know there will be a
supply of ways to come into it.

Speaker 7 (01:42:09):
Brilliant, Jeffrey, Thank you very much. And I'll tell you what.
It's generated a great deal of interest from the listeners
have sent through a whole lot of techs, So if
you don't mind, I might reach out again before the
end of the year and we'll get you back on
and answer a bunch more questions. But really appreciate it.
Under and for people that are interested, have a look
at gasenz dot org dot m Z just to get
an idea of what your organization represents and what the

(01:42:32):
goals are. So again, Jeffrey, thank you very much for
your time this morning. Thanks you very much appreciated. Take
care your news talk ZDB. We're going to jump into
the garden, so if you've got questions for it, you
should call right now. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
We'll be back straight after.

Speaker 1 (01:42:47):
The break beigting what they've forgot to mention on that
YouTube video The Resident Builder with Peter Wilfcamp and Independent
Building Supplies the future of Kiwi Building Today call oh
eight hundred eighty ten eighty News Talk ZB.

Speaker 7 (01:43:02):
We'll talk to rud in just a moment. But I
want to pick up on one thing and thank you
for all your text because it generated quite a lot
of interest in my conversation with Jeffrey Clark from gas
en z just as a way of putting a balanced
picture to energy needs. Right, So, if we're talking about
being able to create gas from renewables, basically using food
scraps at an industrial scale to generate gas that you

(01:43:27):
can then use in industry or households, I think is
a good idea and it's prompted a whole lot of
people to go, hey, look, you know that I'm in Taupo.
We don't have a food scraps collection repro as part
of the wider area. Absolutely ridiculous. I'm going to go
and talk to the new mayor. All good on you.
And I know in Auckland it's been a bit poop
pooed and that sort of thing. I actually think it's
been a really good thing. And I've noticed for my

(01:43:48):
own waste that the binner's lighter because I'm not putting
my food scraps in there, and I know you can
compast and Rod's probably going to give me a hard
time about that, but that's all right. We'll talk to
Rid in just a moment. If you want to talk
to Red, you should call us right now. Oh eight
hundred eighty ten eighty.

Speaker 2 (01:44:03):
Turning those into sh You'll be right.

Speaker 1 (01:44:07):
The Resident Builder with Peter Wolfcamp and Independent Building supplies
the future of Kiwi building Today. Call OH eight hundred
eighty ten eighty News Talk SEDB for more from the
Resident Builder with Peter Wolfcamp. Listen live to News Talk
SEDB on Sunday mornings from six, or follow the podcast
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