Full Show Podcast: 06 September 2026

This week on the show, ZB's Resident Builder Pete Wolfkamp discusses the latest issues impacting the world of construction - and answers questions!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Resident Builder Podcast with Peter Wolfkamp
from Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Turning uh-ohs into she'll be right.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
The Resident Builder with Peter Wolfkamp and independent building supplies.
The future of Kiwi building today.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Call 0800 80 1080. Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
The house is a hole even when it's dark.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Even when the grass is overgrown in the yard. Even
when the dog is too old to bark.

Speaker 4 (00:47):
And when you're sitting at the table trying not to stop,
a house is a home.

Speaker 5 (00:55):
Even when we've up and gone, even when you're there alone, a.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
House, a house is a home.

Speaker 6 (01:11):
Thank you.

Speaker 7 (01:27):
Locals whisper when they're going to leave the neighborhood.

Speaker 8 (01:30):
A house is a home.

Speaker 5 (01:34):
Even when we're up and gone.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Even when you're there alone.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
A house, a house is a home.

Speaker 9 (01:48):
And a very, very good morning and welcome along to
The Resident Builder on Sunday here at Newstalk ZB. You're
with me, Pete Wolfkamp, The Resident Builder, and this is
your show. I think without wanting to be over the
top about it, in a way perhaps that other radio
shows are not. This is completely and utterly about you,

(02:09):
about your projects, about your interests, about the challenges that
you might face in terms of building, renovating, maintaining, just
those everyday jobs. I was at a cafe yesterday, I
was in Wellington yesterday for the Wellington Home and Garden
Show on at Henry Stadium, still on today, great show.
And as is my want, flew down early in the

(02:30):
morning on Air New Zealand, found a little cafe near
Lyle Bay, popped in there for a bit of breakfast
and a coffee and I'd do a bit of paperwork
and do some notes and that sort of thing. And
as you do when you're sitting at a table alone,
you're slightly tuned into other conversations and heard a delightful
group next to me talking about cleaning out the gutters,

(02:51):
about how long it took, how much debris was in
the gutters, that there was grass, there was sufficient sediment
in the gutters in order for grass to start growing there.
And look, we've all been there, right? But it was
just that sort of reminder in a way that we're
all busy with looking after the places that look after

(03:13):
us so if you're doing some work on your property
or you're doing that basic maintenance and in some cases
that deferred maintenance that maybe we're all in the habit
of going look it seems to be working okay I'm
not going to get up there and do anything until
I really really need to do anything i.e. I can
see the grass growing out of the top or every
time it rains I can see the water pouring over

(03:35):
the front of the spouting so If you've got tasks
to do, jobs to do around the house and you'd
like to talk about it, we can do that absolutely
on the programme this morning. The lines are open already.
It is, let me see, just gone 10 minutes after six.
0800 80 10 80 9292 or ZBZB for the text.

(03:56):
And if you'd like to send me an email, you're
more than welcome. It's pete at newstalkzb.co.nz. So a couple
of things that have been going on or that I've
been part of this week. It's been actually a good week,
kind of busy week, but a good week. Wellington yesterday,
home and garden show, little presentation on what does good

(04:17):
look like. Including, actually, I was able to upload and
use a photograph that was sent to me during the
course of the week. We've had a couple of conversations
over the last little while about people looking into the
roof space and seeing condensation. potentially seeing mould, seeing excessive

(04:38):
moisture in that roof space. And it was a conversation
we were having a couple of weeks ago, and then
someone took the time to email me some photographs from
some recent inspections that they've done on, interestingly enough, relatively
new buildings, like we're talking 18 months to two years old.
So new buildings built to the building code, they've been

(04:59):
issued with their certificate of code compliance, and there is
excessive moisture in that roof space, condensation on the underside
of the roof wrap or the roofing underlay. It's quite
a lot of detail in that, but it was interesting
to take the photo. He sent me the photographs. I
haven't declared where I got them from or which house

(05:19):
it is, but I was able to use it in
the presentation yesterday to go, Hey, if we're talking about
what good looks like, this is not it. Um, And
it's a conversation that I've had with a number of
people during the course of the week about, you know,
have we noticed this with some of the new builds
and do we have a problem? And to be blunt,

(05:40):
I think we've got a fairly significant problem for certain
types of buildups, let's say, certain types of methods of
assembly of these roof spaces. And the result is like
it's undeniable and it is frankly quite shocking to see.
the amount of condensation that collects in those spaces and
the impact on those buildings is going to be quite severe.

(06:03):
So that's something to bear in mind. That was a
conversation we were having. Lots of conversations Thursday, Friday. I
appreciate the fact that I was invited to attend the
Master Builders Conference, annual conference, in the same way that
I attended the Certified Builders one earlier in the year.
Master Builders one was on in Auckland the last two days,
some Some speakers, some political speakers, of course, given that

(06:26):
we're not that far away from an election, including Chris Bishop,
Chris Hipkins, Arena Williams, and Simon Watts as the new
Minister for Building and Construction. So an opportunity to hear
and listen to all of those players, which was interesting

(06:46):
in its own way. Happy to talk a little bit
of politics, I guess, later on. And I did have
the opportunity to catch up briefly with Simon Watts, who
I've met on a couple of occasions, but not in
his role as the new construction and housing minister, extended
enough to come onto the show. So I think sometime
in the next couple of weeks, he's indicated that he's

(07:09):
happy to come into the studio. So we'll get a
chance to talk to him before all of the politicians
move into election mode, which I think happens around the
24th of September. So we'll talk with him in his
role as the new Minister of Building and Construction. And
then I'm starting to think about a way of perhaps
interviewing representatives from all of the major parties around their

(07:34):
building and construction policies in the lead up to the election.
So I'm just working on that at the moment, having
discussions with the bosses here at ZB how we do that. Rightio,
on the show this morning, a little bit later on too,
there is a fairly significant change to licensing and inspections

(07:54):
that happens tomorrow, becomes law tomorrow. And this is the
self-certification for plumbers and drain layers have been self-certified for
a while, but plumbers and drain layers in the same
way that gas fitters have been self-certified. So we're going
to talk with Greg Wallace, who's the CEO of the
Master Plumbers and Gas Fitters Association. He's going to come

(08:16):
on the show after eight o'clock to just unpack exactly
what that means. But the impression that I have, as
I understand it, basically, if you think about doing building
work at your property that has a building consent, so
whether it's a new build or a significant alteration that
requires a building consent, as typically as part of those

(08:36):
building consents, you have inspections for different parts of work.
So the builder will need an inspection for the footings,
for example, or a pre-line inspection. And often with a
pre-line inspection, there'll be a piping inspection or a plumbing
inspection and if you notice in the past there's never
any inspections for the electrical work so electricians who are

(08:59):
registered and licensed electricians will do their work and they
self-certify well plumbers now are going to be able to
do exactly the same thing so in the past where
you might have had to wait for a plumbing inspection
Going forward, you won't. I'm going to check those details
with Greg Wallace. He's going to join us after 8
o'clock this morning. I've got a bunch of people to

(09:20):
thank as well. I've had quite an extraordinary week of
meeting just thoroughly good people. And it's actually been really,
really heartening. And I had a lovely moment in Wellington
yesterday that I'll tell you about a little bit later
on in the show. And I was thinking about these
people that I've encountered. And look, most of the time

(09:42):
we meet people every day who are, you know, most
people are lovely, right? I've been a hell of a
lot more nice people than I have people that I
dislike or that rub me up the wrong way or
something like that. But this week has seemed to have
been an abundance of really good people floating around. And
I was wandering around trying to describe it the other

(10:03):
day and I thought it's that old phrase, salt of
the earth. I must look up what that actually means
and why we attach such significance to it. I kind
of know, but I'm going to just double check it.
But I would describe some of the people that I've
met this week as just the salt of the earth,
and I'll tell you a bit more about that. And
it kind of is related to building and construction and
stuff like that. Rightio, let's get amongst it. 0800 80 1080.

(10:24):
Good morning, and also, happy Father's Day. If you are
a dad, like I'm a dad, then I would say
happy Father's Day to you. And if you've got a dad,
whether they're around or not, like my dad's not anymore,
certainly thinking of them as well. So happy Father's Day
to all the dads out there as well. It is

(10:44):
16 after six. Let's get amongst it. Kerry, good morning
to you.

Speaker 10 (10:48):
Good morning. How are you?

Speaker 11 (10:49):
Greetings.

Speaker 9 (10:49):
Very well, thanks.

Speaker 10 (10:51):
I've got one of those situations of a old villa with,
and I know it's not just your standard plasterboard. It's
got those little batten things on the inside of the wall.
And it's got a dent in the wall that's about
the size of the palm of your hand that I
need to fix. And I know it's got like a paper,
like it would be like wallpaper that's been painted over.

(11:14):
And I can feel when I press into it that
that paper moves. And so I'm guessing it's not going
to be a case of just being able to put
some plaster on. into it and then paint over the top.
That is the paper I'll obviously want to pull off.
So I was wanting to check on whether is that
something where I need to put some little cuts in
it and try and put some glue in to make
the paper sort of sit back again or do I

(11:35):
need to cut it out and actually put a new
piece of, you know, jib board or something into that
hole or what's the best approach?

Speaker 9 (11:45):
So, okay, a couple of questions in. We're definitely talking villa,
not bungalow.

Speaker 10 (11:51):
Or I could be wrong. It's definitely a very old building.

Speaker 6 (11:56):
Okay.

Speaker 9 (11:57):
And when you, so the original villas, so we're talking
1880s to about 1910, 1915, something like that, would have
timber framing. So timber studs that have wide boards fixed
horizontally over those. And then they used to hang hessian

(12:19):
over that. And then onto the hessian, that was kind
of the reinforcing for the wallpaper. And that's how almost
all buildings at that time were constructed or finished off.
And I have to say, it's kind of unusual, given
the time that's elapsed, like 110 years or so since

(12:41):
the last of those were constructed, that there's not many
of them still floating around where someone hasn't. remove that
over time and fix some sort of other board to it,
most likely plasterboard, most likely jibboard. So when you press
that area where there's the dent, it doesn't, like if
you could open it up, you wouldn't see any plaster,
you wouldn't see any plasterboard there. It's definitely wallpaper that's

(13:05):
been painted and then that's on some sort of sacking
material and then behind that is some timber or nothing
behind there.

Speaker 10 (13:16):
I only know from having been up in the roof
and looking down through in between. It's one of those
situations where there actually isn't any studs or anything like that.
You can look down from the top all the way
down to pretty much the ground, if that makes any sense. So, yeah,

(13:38):
you could be right. I'm just trying to remember about
the boards and what the width of those boards were.

Speaker 9 (13:42):
Yeah, the width will be about 12 inches, so 300 mil,
and they'll only be half an inch thick, so about
12 mil thick. They're often rough sawn, and they're not
closely abutted or anything like that. They've got a little
gap in between them, and essentially it was just a
way of bracing and lining the inside of the building,
and then because that's kind of rough and so on,

(14:04):
they would hang this hessian on it. I just wonder
whether if it is a situation, and there's another thing
that happened sort of in the 1960s 30s, 1940s, where
in some cases there was a thing called whakatane board,
or that's what I've come to understand it, which is
like a heavy-duty cardboard that came in, it seems like

(14:25):
a three-foot by six-foot sheet. And I guess that was
the upgrade from Hessian. And then that was applied, kind
of roughly stopped and then painted. And then, you know,
we've had plasterboard for decades. getting close to 100 years
now in one or other variation. And early plasterboards were

(14:48):
quite thin. It was about six mil thick or something
like that. So it may even be a very early plasterboard.
So all of this sort of historical investigation probably doesn't
help you fix the problem. But I'm wondering whether if
it's really a surface that's quite unstable and you're not
sure what's behind it, I wonder whether you cut like

(15:09):
just a cross pattern in there, fold that open gently,
try and get a piece of more rigid cardboard, slide
it through and effectively back block that area. Put some
PVA glue on there. It should be able to adhere.
And once it's done, just with some filling compound, like
you have to be really gentle with it because if

(15:30):
you put too much pressure, you'll push that backing block
away again. Kind of water down the product a little
bit so it's easy to apply, that you don't have
to put too much pressure on with a broad knife.
Let that set, very light sand, and then a repaint,
I guess, is probably how I would go about doing it.
If I don't know what my substrate is, if there's

(15:50):
nothing to actually, you know, typically if you said to me,
I've got a hole, a dent in a jib board wall,
if the jib's still in reasonable condition, you can use
a patch and apply it. Or you can cut it out,
put a piece in, etc. But it's just because you
don't know what you've got behind there that you might
have to do a little bit of reinforcing with a
bit of card or something like that.

Speaker 10 (16:10):
Good suggestion. I know I have done the other options
before with jib boards. It was just the fact that
I knew this was different and I thought I'd give
you a call. But I appreciate your help with that.

Speaker 9 (16:19):
It feels like one of those sorts of things where
you just need to give it some reinforcement behind there,
whether that's a really thin piece of MDF, like, you know,
two or three mil. You can't get three mil, I think,
is the narrowest or thinnest MDF or a bit of hard,
you know, cardboard or something like that, just to bond
that and then just very gently bring it up from there.

(16:41):
Fun and games, eh? Old houses, got to love them.

Speaker 10 (16:44):
You do.

Speaker 12 (16:45):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 8 (16:45):
Thanks.

Speaker 9 (16:46):
Nice to talk with you, Kerry. Take care.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
Bye-bye then.

Speaker 9 (16:48):
0800 80 1080 is the number to call. It is
23 minutes after six. Back in a moment.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
Helping you finish that five-minute fix you started. The Resident
Builder with Peter Wolfcamp and independent building supplies. The future
of Kiwi building today. Call 0800 80 1080. Newstalk ZB.
Just an observation, but it's one of those.

Speaker 9 (17:10):
Things that I guess we're aware that campaigning has now started.
for the general election. And I'm not sure if I'm
the only one that pays, it seems, an incredibly close
attention to the competency of politicians when they are suddenly
given sledgehammers, hammers, impact drivers, and so on, to assemble

(17:31):
their placards, which have popped up all over the place
in the last little while. But I have to say,
quite honestly, I was quite impressed with just a brief
clip the other day that had actually Chris Hipkins hammering
in what looked like a four inch nail through a
bit of 4x2 as a brace onto the frame and

(17:53):
at about you know face height head height that can
be disastrous right for something that's moving around and I
for what it's worth I was reasonably impressed by his
competency with a hammer so anyway just just an observation Oh,
800-80-10-80 is the number to call. I notice, though, it's

(18:14):
a sign of the times. Not that many are using
hammer and nail anymore. It's impact driver and tech screw, basically,
seems to be the go-to for most politicians grabbing that
moment in the camera, popping up their placards, their hoardings
around the country. Judy, good morning to you.

Speaker 8 (18:37):
Good morning, and happy Father's Day to you.

Speaker 9 (18:39):
Well, thank you. That's very kind.

Speaker 6 (18:41):
Thank you.

Speaker 8 (18:41):
Right. Now, I've got a problem.

Speaker 6 (18:43):
Yes.

Speaker 8 (18:44):
I live on a heavily treed park. I've got about
nine big trees, largely oak in front of me. They're
all deciduous, and the council don't want to remove them.
Along the front of my house, I've got a bay window,
which means there's no surface outside the window. When the
gutters block, the water cascades down the inside of the window.

(19:06):
I've had plumbers, builders, old Uncle Tom Copley and all around,
and their solution is keep the gutters clear.

Speaker 9 (19:14):
Good solution.

Speaker 8 (19:15):
I'm in my late 70s, and I've lost my nerve
on the roof, but for the last few years, I've
been happy to go up and down a ladder, move
it with a hose and flush it. But now I've
got arthritis, and I'm struggling with the ladder. I've read
about these mesh guards, the circular brush things, And I'm wondering,

(19:37):
particularly the mesh guards, they seem to be attached to
the roof. So if you put them on, don't you
need to flush out the gutter every so often? Or
would they be successful in my case?

Speaker 9 (19:52):
Yeah, I don't know. gosh i'm not normally sort of
hesitant around advice right but um like i i know
all of those different systems and i've i've either had
them or used them or seen them or repaired them

(20:13):
or whatever over the years. So in the last little while,
I actually, you know that bristle stuff, right, that you
pop in?

Speaker 8 (20:19):
Yes, which appears to fall apart and block the downpipe.
But go on.

Speaker 9 (20:23):
Yeah, look, you know, again, I talked about this a
little while ago. I had my son up from Christchurch
for the mid-semester break, and we went and cleared out
spouting around a couple of brick and tile units. Now,
one of them had those bristles in it, Um, and I've,
I've ripped those out and I haven't replaced them. Now
that's just my personal choice to do that. Um, and

(20:46):
this particular instance, um, I'm going to get some gutter foam, uh,
which is another material.

Speaker 8 (20:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (20:54):
Um, so that's on my list to go back and
install that. And I guess what attracts me about that
is it's not fixed to anything. I can install it.
It provides a surface on the top where the leaves
will rest and then probably just get blown off. Um,
So that's what I'm going to try in this particular instance.
I know other situations where, particularly like in your situation,

(21:16):
where they've got the, you know, you've got big trees
and lots of leaves and especially oak leaves. I mean,
they're huge, right?

Speaker 8 (21:24):
I know, I know. And it sounds about playing ball.

Speaker 9 (21:27):
Having something that sits on top and ensures that you
don't get in, I guess the challenge with that is
when inevitably there will be sediment in the spouting area,
How do you get to that?

Speaker 8 (21:38):
But then you could lift that out and flush it,
couldn't you?

Speaker 9 (21:41):
You could with a gutter foam one, but, you know,
if you're talking like the mesh guard ones. I've heard
some people say that there is a bit of a
concern around fixing the mesh guard down onto the iron
and what that does over time.

Speaker 8 (21:55):
Well, I've actually got a 1990 Decremastic tile.

Speaker 10 (22:00):
Right, OK.

Speaker 8 (22:01):
There's some residue coming off, but.

Speaker 6 (22:02):
Not a lot.

Speaker 13 (22:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (22:06):
So actually, no, that foam, it's sort of, yeah.

Speaker 9 (22:12):
I think with a lot of these things, there's actually
sometimes more than just one solution, right? So then it
becomes a case of, is that something that you could
install yourself? Is it something that, you know, how long
it's going to last? I'm not sure. I'll let you
know once I've installed it. But we're still doing the
show in five years' time. But anyway.

Speaker 8 (22:33):
Well, my problem is, It's the winter.

Speaker 6 (22:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (22:36):
I mean, the autumn. I can clear the gutters.

Speaker 9 (22:38):
Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 8 (22:39):
Three or four times a week. And it can be
8 o'clock in the morning. It can be 8 o'clock
at night. It depends on Mother Nature.

Speaker 6 (22:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (22:48):
You know, you get one of those blustery winds followed
by rain, and I've had it.

Speaker 9 (22:52):
I'll tell you what I did see. Actually, it was
in Wellington yesterday at the Home and Garden show that
I went down to is some spouting kind of in
a European style. Quite wide and the brackets are on
the outside of the spouting. So you know how often
with all sorts of different spouting types, the bracket is concealed, right?

(23:14):
In which case it comes up from behind the spouting,
runs across the top of it and clips into the
inside of the front edge. which also means, and there's
benefits of that, but when you do go to clean it,
it just means that every 500 or 600 mil, you've
got this barrier to sort of cleaning and getting your
hands in there. So I tend to, I'm looking at

(23:35):
this for another project thinking, actually, one where my clips
are on the outside and I've got no impediment to
getting my hand or a little scoop. I went and
bought one of those little orange scoops that are just
wide enough to fit inside there, the other day when
I was doing some gutter cleaning. That made a big difference.

Speaker 8 (23:54):
But my problem is me getting up to the gutter.

Speaker 9 (23:58):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 8 (23:59):
The bugger getting old. And I don't want to move
and I don't want to go through a garden village.

Speaker 9 (24:08):
So I could.

Speaker 8 (24:08):
Get that professionally installed.

Speaker 9 (24:10):
Yeah, and I've noticed there's a couple of gutter cleaning
crews around. And one of the ones that I saw
a little while ago, instead of just jetting a heap
of water through there and blowing the stuff all over
the place, they've actually just got a wet and dry
vacuum cleaner with a nozzle, like a U-bend on it,
like a periscope type thing, right? A snorkel. And so

(24:31):
they literally go along and suck all of the debris
out of the gutters.

Speaker 8 (24:36):
Which would be great.

Speaker 9 (24:37):
That's awesome.

Speaker 8 (24:37):
But the trouble is, you know, nobody wants to come
out on a Sunday afternoon at 6 o'clock and clear
my gutters because we've just had a.

Speaker 9 (24:45):
Friday, I'm sure it lasts more than just a couple
of days.

Speaker 8 (24:48):
I know, but what happens? You get one of the
specialty snorthlies come through, and within an hour, the gut
is full.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
Right, yes, yes, I'm with you. And it's got to
be cleared then and.

Speaker 8 (24:58):
There, otherwise I've got water in the house.

Speaker 9 (24:59):
You've got water overflowing.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (25:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (25:03):
So that foam, yeah, I'd be happy to give that
a go.

Speaker 9 (25:08):
Yeah, I think I'm going to give it a go
as well. So we'll compare notes in a year, eh?

Speaker 8 (25:13):
Okay, well, thank you very much.

Speaker 9 (25:14):
Lovely to talk with you. All the very best. Bye-bye then.

Speaker 13 (25:17):
Bye.

Speaker 9 (25:17):
Take care. 0800 80 1080, the number to call. Cathy,
hang on, I've hit the wrong bit. Cathy, g'day.

Speaker 14 (25:26):
Good morning.

Speaker 7 (25:28):
I live in a very old house and I'm There's
quite a few faults, but there's one thing I wanted
to ask you. On the outside of the building, there's
black mould everywhere and, like, fences.

Speaker 14 (25:46):
And stuff outside, it's all rusty.

Speaker 10 (25:49):
Yep.

Speaker 7 (25:49):
And there's also little plants going out of the concrete
on the outside of the walls outside. At this stage,
the inside of the house.
I haven't found any black mould it has been painted
but is there a possibility that the black mould will
get into the inside of the house because I've got

(26:14):
a hole in the roof as.

Speaker 9 (26:15):
Well I guess everything is possible but I think that
the picture that I have of what you're describing is
essentially just a an almost complete lack of maintenance to
a property, right? So is this a house that you

(26:36):
own or is it a house that you're renting?

Speaker 14 (26:38):
I'm renting and I didn't do it properly and now
I'm noticing all the faults and I'm getting everything sorted
at a time.

Speaker 9 (26:51):
With your tenancy agreement, do you have a healthy homes
assessments report?

Speaker 7 (26:58):
I do, but I don't really want to query it
because at the moment I just want to keep myself
safe in the house because also there's a heat pump
and the heat pump's got grain on it on the outside.

Speaker 13 (27:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (27:18):
Look, the impression I'm getting essentially, and I'll be really,
really honest with you, is that the landlord, is basically
that they're not doing sufficient maintenance to the property, right? Now,
whether that's insufficient maintenance in terms of the standards that

(27:39):
we might expect in terms of the healthy homes standard,
or whether it's just care and attention to the property. So,
you know, if there's black mould on the exterior of
the building, you know, buildings that are south-facing, buildings that
are exposed to the elements, buildings that don't get washed regularly,
will develop that. The building itself might be kind of okay.

(28:01):
And if you're getting weed growth and those sorts of things,
that's just lack of maintenance to a large degree. But
I also understand that tenants often feel that they are
vulnerable in terms of their relationship with their landlord and
that making what seem to be reasonable demands in terms
of regular, minimal amounts of maintenance is are sometimes difficult

(28:27):
and so on. So I fully appreciate where you're coming
from in terms of not wanting to rock the boat.
What I've never understood with landlords in this instance is
it is your asset, right? And if you don't maintain
your asset, it's going to deteriorate. So surely it's in
the landlord's interest to listen to feedback from a tenant

(28:50):
to say, hey, look, I've just noticed that we're starting
to get this black mold on the exterior of the building.
I've been here a couple of years' time. With the
greatest respect, I've noticed that in that time, no one's
come to wash the outside.

Speaker 10 (29:03):
Of the building.

Speaker 9 (29:04):
So everybody would accept that minimum requirements are, ideally, you
want to wash the exterior of the building once a year.
So if you've been there a couple of years, no
one's ever come to wash the outside of the building,
depending on the cladding type and all the rest of it,
you'd go, again, respectfully, it's the landlord who's just not

(29:25):
maintaining the building. And it's to their detriment, I would
have thought. But look, most of what you'll describe, I mean,
if there's a hole in the roof, that's a maintenance issue, right?
And that's actually contrary to the conditions that are in
a healthy homes standard, which talks about moisture ingress, right?
So where there is unreasonable or excessive moisture ingress, it's

(29:49):
a failure of the building and it's on the landlord
to fix it. Yeah, but, you know, lack of maintenance
does that to buildings.

Speaker 7 (30:01):
I was just wondering if maybe when I moved in,
it was only half finished. I mean, I'm not making excuses.

Speaker 15 (30:11):
No, no, no.

Speaker 9 (30:12):
I hear what you're saying.

Speaker 10 (30:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (30:15):
Because I haven't had a problem when I report faults.

Speaker 6 (30:20):
Okay.

Speaker 9 (30:20):
Then I think if you can, as much as possible,
engage with the landlord, encourage them to come and do
what seems to me some fairly basic maintenance, that will
change the condition on the outside of the house quite significantly.
I hope it goes well for you, Cathy. It's not

(30:41):
a conversation that's unusual, unfortunately, but it does kind of
rile me up when you hear stories like this where
landlords are just bad landlords, basically. 6.40 at Newstalk CB.
We'll take a short break. We'll be back straight after
the break with Heather. Where DIY gets unstuck. Call 0800

(31:05):
80 1080.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
The resident builder with Peter Wolfcamp and independent building supplies.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
The future of Kiwi building today. Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 9 (31:14):
Rightio, we're into it. 0800 80 1080 9292 or ZBZB
for the text and pete at newstalkzb.co.nz if you'd like
to fire off an email. Heather, a very good morning
to you.

Speaker 8 (31:28):
Good morning.

Speaker 9 (31:29):
Greetings.

Speaker 15 (31:30):
Hi. I live in a, well, it's probably a 1950s home, rented,
and the exterior is that fiber light, which I believe
is best of, and that's the second part of my question.
But the first part is I need to replace the
straps on a downpipe from the gutters.

Speaker 6 (31:51):
Yes.

Speaker 15 (31:52):
And I've twice gone into hardware stores to get the
right drill bit. The first one just clearly wasn't right
and broke. The second time, they said, oh, you just
use the ordinary drill bit and press harder.

Speaker 6 (32:10):
Fantastic.

Speaker 9 (32:11):
Okay. Yep.

Speaker 6 (32:13):
Yep.

Speaker 15 (32:13):
I'm with you. So I didn't even waste the drill
bit on that one. Anyway, I'm at the point now,
you know, we've got high winds. Yeah.

Speaker 9 (32:20):
And it's banging around and it's annoying.

Speaker 6 (32:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 13 (32:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 15 (32:24):
Well, the original strap has broken.

Speaker 8 (32:27):
Yes.

Speaker 15 (32:27):
And so I've got the new one ready to replace.
And so I need to drill fresh holes because it's
going to be hard to get the screws out of
the old one and also the holes are probably shot.

Speaker 8 (32:39):
Yes.

Speaker 15 (32:39):
So what do I ask for when I go to
probably a number of hardware stores? But, you know, I've
got a little hand one.

Speaker 10 (32:51):
Which is not very strong.

Speaker 9 (32:52):
Cordless drill.

Speaker 15 (32:54):
But I've got an electric one which I can use,
which I should be able to do the job.

Speaker 9 (33:01):
I mean, in the end, the fiber light cladding on
the outside of the building is probably only six or
maybe seven mil thick, right? So it's actually not a
lot of drilling to do. And if you did have
an older standard high speed bit, you could do it
and it'll probably do you two holes. It'll be a

(33:21):
bit blunt. You just kind of throw it away. So
You could actually just use a standard metal bit, but
if you wanted to get something else, you could use
a masonry bit, so a small say 4 or 6,
maybe a 5 or 6 mil masonry bit, which will
have a harder tip to it, and then that'll get
you through. You could also, you can buy those funky

(33:42):
sort of bullet shaped diamond bits for drilling through tiles,
that would be another option too. But To be fair,
if I was doing it, I'd probably just get a
slightly older drill bit and I've got a whole bunch
of them in a drawer and just push through with
that as long as the drill bit's not already completely blunt, basically.

(34:06):
But we can't ignore the fact that that material is
likely to be asbestos or have asbestos fibres in it.
So it's ACM, asbestos containing material. There are some very
good sensible guidelines around how you protect yourself and protect
other people when you're drilling through that. So for you,

(34:30):
you'd want to make sure that you're wearing a mask,
that ideally you should be collecting the material. Now, whether
that's if you have a small vacuum cleaner and you can,
as you're drilling, you're collecting that material, then you've got
to dispose of that at the appropriate tip site or
in a way that's not going to contaminate the environment.

(34:52):
I noticed some people doing work. So one of the
places where there's often asbestos in boards is older meter
boxes and distribution boards, the backing panel behind the fuses.
And so I noticed some electrical inspectors doing a reconnection
the other day and they identified the fact that there
was asbestos there. They had a special container or just

(35:17):
a plastic bag that is highlighted asbestos. you know, warning asbestos.
And so when they were drilling all of the material,
they made sure it went into that bag and then
they obviously take that back to the yard and it's
disposed of. So I know that two holes doesn't seem
like a lot and I'm sure that people are listening

(35:37):
who go, look, I've drilled holes and it's not a problem.
But in the end, you're going to drill a hole
through asbestos, it's going to release the fibres, you should
capture that, you should dispose of it responsibly.

Speaker 15 (35:48):
Right, so I've got those little hand vacuum cleaners, good ones.
So I just have that beside me.

Speaker 9 (35:56):
Yeah, and that's good. That makes sense because then you're
not spreading that material all over the place, but then
you've got to go, what do you do with that
when you go to clean the vacuum cleaner out? And also,
on a technical level, the filters on those are not great.
So what you might find at a microscopic level is
material those fibres are being drawn into the vacuum cleaner,

(36:18):
but then they're just being expelled out the vent at
the back, right? So there are different classes of vacuum
cleaners that we use for hazardous work. A little handheld
vacuum cleaner won't have a rating for that type of thing.
I know it sounds like I'm being overly pedantic, but
there are actually risks. In fact, there was a story

(36:40):
last week, I think, in Stuff, a guy who's probably
in his 40s, an electrician, now has essentially a terminal
diagnosis from exposure to asbestos. It's impacted his lungs. And,
you know, I think most of us have this impression
that it was stuff that happened to people a long
time ago. You know, in this instance, he's younger than me.

(37:02):
He's been in the trade less than me. And yet
he's still been exposed to sufficient amount of asbestos for
it to cause a shortening of his life, right? So
let's not underestimate the risks. So be considerate of what
it is that you're doing and where you're going to
dispose of that material at the end.

Speaker 13 (37:23):
Right.

Speaker 15 (37:24):
I have a mask which looks like one of those
ones from World War whichever. And I used that when
I used to use oxalic acid to clean the bath
when we had a water problem.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
Yeah, sure.

Speaker 15 (37:41):
So will that be suitable for me?

Speaker 9 (37:43):
Yeah, and again, it's not a lot of material. It's
not like you're taking a skill saw through the entire
sheet or something like that. You've got to balance the risk,
but there is still a risk. And so a mask
and somewhere to dispose of it and then ensuring that
you don't just put that bag in the rubbish bin
because then it becomes somebody else's problem. Take it somewhere

(38:04):
where they take hazardous material.

Speaker 10 (38:08):
All righty.

Speaker 9 (38:09):
All the very best to you, Heather. Good luck with that.

Speaker 15 (38:11):
Great.

Speaker 9 (38:12):
Take care.

Speaker 15 (38:12):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 9 (38:13):
Bye-bye then. We'll try and do some texts straight after
the break.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Measure twice. Call once. On 0800 80 1080.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
The Resident Builder with Peter Wolfcamp and Independent Building Supplies.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
The future of Kiwi building today. Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 9 (38:31):
Some fantastic texts and I just want to quickly grab
a few of them. But in fact, Craig, we might
have to just hold you for after the news if
that's okay and I'll try and address these. Just on
the conversation I've just had with Heather, so we are
talking about potentially drilling a hole through material that is
likely to contain asbestos, in which case the great risk

(38:55):
with asbestos is releasing those fibres, those fibres become airborne
and then they can be breathed in and that can
have and does have a terrible impact on your health
and it can be fatal.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
Right?

Speaker 9 (39:08):
So let's not underestimate the risk that's here. A couple
of very sensible texts have come in. Pete, you can
get linear drill bits. They're about eight bucks for a
three or four mil size. It's a nicer cut than
a masonry bit. I'll have a look at that. And
he goes, we use shaving foam on the drill and
then we wipe it up and dispose of it. So
if you imagine spraying some shaving foam, then drilling through it,

(39:30):
those fibres are essentially captured by the foam. Then we
wipe that up and we dispose of it. You get
a cheap vacuum and you risk spreading the dust. And
someone's got a little bit more information on that. Says Tony,
please tell that lady that a normal vacuum cleaner must
not be used for asbestos. It won't contain the fibres
as they're too small and the cleaner would need to
be discarded. Suggests Googling it. Look, I agree with you, Tony.

(39:52):
I think that a regular vacuum, in the same way,
that if you've ever used your household vacuum cleaner to
vacuum up jib dust, if you've done a little bit of,
you know, painting, decorating, a little bit of patching, and
then you use the old vacuum cleaner, you will kill it.
I've killed so many vacuum cleaners. Well, not anymore because
I got myself a decent one. Right, a couple of
other things. Pete, we've purchased a two-year-old house covered by

(40:15):
a guarantee. I won't tell you which company. I noticed
the hob extractor's open to the roof space and not
connected to a vent in the soffit.

Speaker 10 (40:23):
Bad.

Speaker 9 (40:24):
That's not acceptable and should be fixed when the garage
door opens the water holds in the panels and then
falls inside is this covered by the guarantee i wouldn't
imagine that with regard to the garage door i think
that's just one of those things that happens with a
sectional door when you lift it but you could get
the company to come back and just check that it's
it's okay it should have a seal in there that

(40:45):
stops most of that water sitting in the grooves of
the top edge of the panel But the extractor, if
the hob is not connected, if it doesn't vent to outside,
that's a fault and it should be corrected. Absolutely.

Speaker 6 (41:01):
What else?

Speaker 9 (41:02):
Linear drill bits we've done. Building code. November 2026 building code.
Would you please discuss the major changes, i.e. the need
to add insulation to a wall when renovating? Do you
need consent for re-roofing or sealing as well? I'll come
back to you on a couple of those issues straight
after the news.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Fixing what they forgot to mention on that YouTube video.
The Resident Builder with Peter Wolfcamp and independent building supplies.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
The future of Kiwi building today.

Speaker 11 (41:30):
Call 0800 80 1080.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 3 (41:50):
Lately I've been noticing I say the same things he
used to say And I even find myself acting the
very same way I tap my fingers on the table
to the rhythm in my soul And I jangle the
car keys when I'm ready to go But every day

(42:14):
I see a little more of my father in me

(42:47):
there were times i thought he was being just a
little bit hard on me.

Speaker 5 (42:57):
But now i understand he was making me become the
man he.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
And everything he ever did, he always did with love
And I'm proud today to say I'm his son When
somebody says.

Speaker 5 (43:15):
I hope I get to meet your dad I just
smile and say, you already have The older I get,
the more I can see How much he loved my
mother and my.

Speaker 4 (43:27):
Brothers I said to Lydia this morning that at some
stage I'd like to play a sort of Father's Day
song and left that up to her choice.

Speaker 9 (43:38):
That's an outstanding song. So that's Keith Urban.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (43:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (43:45):
Happy Father's Day to the dads that are out there.
And to those of us that don't have our dads anymore. Look,
my dad got to 98. So I'm incredibly grateful to
be an old man when my dad passed. but that's
not something that everyone gets the pleasure of having in
their life. So to all the dads, happy Father's Day, guys.

(44:07):
0800 80 1080 is the number to call. We'll talk
about the building code in just a minute, but Craig
has been very patient. So, Craig, very good morning to you.

Speaker 10 (44:16):
How are you?

Speaker 13 (44:18):
Morning to you, Peter. Yeah, pretty good, buddy. Issue, listening
to one of your shows earlier in the year about
some gutter leaks and stuff like that, we've got an
internal angle leak. And I say the internal, I think
it's an acute angle on the roof at 90 degrees.

(44:39):
And we've always had a drip from it, and it
got to the point where it was just enough was enough.
So I listened to your show, went out and got
some of that ADOS or CRC.

Speaker 10 (44:48):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 13 (44:49):
Or leak stop, sorry.

Speaker 10 (44:50):
Yep, yep.

Speaker 13 (44:52):
Um some uh gorilla silicon remover got up there and
cleared like literally with picks the whole lot cleared everything
out put the stop the leak stop in there and
um it's like a waterfall.

Speaker 9 (45:10):
Look and it's it's one of those things like i
had a leak um And I used it and it
hasn't leaked since. So I go, okay. All right. Just
in terms of what the buildup is of this. So
sometimes when people talk about internal gutters, what they're actually
talking about is concealed spouting behind a metal fascia.

Speaker 13 (45:33):
When I say internal, sorry, I mean it's an external
gutter system.

Speaker 6 (45:38):
Yes.

Speaker 13 (45:39):
But the corner is a corner pointing in towards the
house as opposed to out from the house.

Speaker 12 (45:44):
Yes.

Speaker 9 (45:45):
The spouting is hanging on fascia and then the roofing
iron overhangs and then there. So it's outboard of the building.
So when it leaks, it doesn't leak into the building
as such. It's just running out the bottom of it.

Speaker 6 (45:56):
Okay. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Speaker 9 (45:59):
And that metal, it's a sort of quarter round or
a overload profile, you know, standard sort of profile metal spouting?

Speaker 6 (46:07):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 9 (46:10):
When it was originally installed, was it riveted together?

Speaker 6 (46:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 13 (46:14):
It's riveted at the joins.

Speaker 9 (46:17):
Yes.

Speaker 13 (46:18):
So there's a bracket at the join where it hangs
in the corner.

Speaker 6 (46:24):
Yep.

Speaker 13 (46:24):
And that's riveted on. So, like, I mean, I went
through and got every bit of silicon from inside and
outside of that join using that silicon remover and picks
and stuff.

Speaker 6 (46:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (46:40):
Okay, and then did you use the, tube or the
um spray the tube tube okay um.

Speaker 6 (46:51):
And there's lots of it.

Speaker 9 (46:56):
Well you see sometimes i think that that can be
part of the problem because sometimes when when you've got
you know a surface like the bottom of a gutter
or something like that and then suddenly there's great big
wadges of silicon in there. It just creates a dam
which stops water flowing and potentially it's found another exit. Gosh,

(47:19):
I wonder whether maybe a membrane of some description would
work better in there. Now, it does mean having to
scrape out any excessive silicon that's in there. And then, like,
you know, I seem to spend a lot of time
sort of fixing little leaks around the place. But I
used a product called Endurus the other day on a

(47:43):
flat roof at the back of a sort of 1960s
brick and tile, you know, those classic little two-bedroom units,
and they've got the little jutty out bit on the side,
flat roof on it, developed a leak, not surprisingly, because
it was flat to the point where it was holding water.
And I just coated the whole thing in this Endurus product.
I'm not sure if you can buy it in small

(48:05):
enough containers to make it worthwhile just to do the inside,
but there are other similar products. So you could do
like a bandage, which is you could go, you know,
four inches in either direction and just apply like a
liquid membrane over that entire area. I wonder whether if,
you know, like the people that would have installed the
spouting in the first place, whether they would say drill

(48:28):
out the rivets, open... the gap up again, get your
sealant in there, and then redo the rivets. The only
thing is, of course, you can't get to the rivets
at the upstand at the back.

Speaker 10 (48:40):
No.

Speaker 9 (48:40):
I suppose you could, but you'd do it from the inside,
which is not ideal. Maybe the membrane is the better one.

Speaker 8 (48:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 16 (48:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (48:49):
And look, I had the situation where a big, long,
typical old villa with two roof pitches, so they come
down into a central valley, And then that valley runs
the length of the building and exits into the spouting.
So you're talking about six or seven meters. Been there
for 15, 20 years, and suddenly it springs a leak, right?

(49:12):
And I'm like, what the? Anyway, just because the sheet's
got an overlap of 150 mil. And again, I happen
to use that ADOS no leaks or stop leak stuff.

Speaker 3 (49:24):
Worked.

Speaker 9 (49:25):
It hasn't in your case. Maybe just a membrane there or... Yeah. Yeah,
I'd go a membrane in that corner.

Speaker 6 (49:33):
Oh, I'll have a bit of a look-see at that. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 13 (49:35):
And I'll get up there and spend another three hours
clearing all the leak stop away.

Speaker 9 (49:39):
Got to love it. Got to love it.

Speaker 14 (49:41):
All right, mate.

Speaker 9 (49:41):
Take care.

Speaker 6 (49:42):
Cheers, Pete.

Speaker 9 (49:42):
All the best to you.

Speaker 13 (49:43):
Thanks, buddy.

Speaker 9 (49:43):
See you, bud. Bye-bye. Right, a couple of quick texts
before we talk to Rick. This is the one that
I mentioned just before the news. Hey, Pete, the November
2026 building code. Will you please discuss major changes? Need
consent to add insulation to the wall when renovating? Do
you need a consent for re-roofing or sealing as well? Jude,

(50:06):
there hasn't really been a change to the building code
in 2026 to the best of my knowledge. There is submissions, well,
the building code does change regularly and there's updates all
the time. I was reading through a whole bunch of
them earlier this week. So Will you please discuss major changes? Yeah,

(50:26):
if you tell me what they are. Need a consent
to add insulation to the wall when renovating. You've always
needed a building consent to add insulation to existing exterior walls, right?
That's been the case for, I guess, since the Building
Act was introduced in 92. Certainly it's always been part
of the building code. That hasn't changed. So that's always there.

(50:47):
Do you need a consent for re-roofing? Really interesting, actually.
I ended up reaching out to the new executive chair
or the executive officer for the Roofing Association, Luke, who
is going to join me on the show in a
couple of weeks' time. And we can talk about that perfectly.
The other thing that the Roofing Association has, and it's online,

(51:09):
so if you just search for Roofing Association, they've got
a best practice guide. They've also got a best practice
guide for re-roofing. and they have a little app or
a little checklist where you can see whether or not
your re-roof requires a consent. So if you want a
bit more information, go and have a look at the
Roofing Association of New Zealand's website, and like I say,

(51:32):
we will have Luke, the new boss, basically, at Roofing
Association on the show in a couple of weeks' time,
in the same way that we'll probably have Simon Watts,
the new-ish Building and Construction Minister there, in the studio
in the next couple of weeks and in the next
hour Greg Wallace from the Master Plumbers Association will be

(51:55):
talking about a fairly significant change to legislation and inspection
regimes and so on this is self-certification We'll be talking
about that after 8 o'clock this morning. Right, we talked
about cutting through old fibrolite, which is likely to contain
asbestos and what you need to do. Don't use your

(52:15):
domestic vacuum cleaner for that sort of thing. Matt says,
happy Father's Day. Much appreciated, Matt. Best method for stopping
birds in the guttering. I had some very persistent starlings
that really liked jumping into the spouting, ducking down, popping
up underneath the iron, over the fascia board and into

(52:38):
a little kind of soffit on a bull-nosed veranda. It
was the perfect habitat for them. It took me about
three seasons of nesting to finally dissuade them from making
a nest in that little cavity that's part of that construction.
And I ended up just getting that plastic mesh with
about 10mm gaps in it. and I just cut that

(52:59):
into strips, laid it over the top of the brackets
for the spouting. The first year, they lifted those away
to get underneath. So I ended up having to use
little cable ties to fasten it down, but they were
incredibly persistent. So that's what worked for me on that one.
People have been talking about different sort of gutter protection systems.

(53:23):
I've just removed one type, and I'm going to try
some of that gutter foam when I get back to
that particular property, so that's on my list as well,
and says, David, just wondering about the moisture in the
roof cavity that you were talking about. Is the problem
with the code, the materials, or the standard of construction?
Regards from David. Look, I'm typically not terribly sort of,

(53:48):
let's say hysterical, you know, alarmist about, you know, we
often have cases where people go, oh, every single building's
rubbish and the building code's terrible and all the rest
of it. I don't typically go down that pathway. But
in this instance, I've seen, I had a long discussion
with some people at the Master Builders Conference this week.
I've had a long discussion with a guy who's been

(54:09):
investigating roof spaces on new builds, right? So we're talking
18 months, two-year-old buildings built in accordance with the current
building codes that received their CCC. So tick from the
council that the building is code compliant. And there is
just incredible, and I say this, you know, deliberately, incredible

(54:34):
amounts of moisture that is collecting in that roof space.
So if you think about a conventional assembly in New Zealand,
we do framing, maybe two stories of framing, maybe three
stories of framing. We get trusses, big triangle bits, drop
them on top there. Typically over the top of the truss,
you do a purlin. Over the top of the purlin,
you do the roofing underlay and then lay typically long

(54:57):
run profile over the top of that. Then inside that
roof space, once you've finished all the construction, you lay
insulation over the top of the ceiling and that's it basically.
And so in that environment where there's still vapour diffusion,
so there's moisture from inside the building that goes through

(55:17):
the ceiling, collects in that roof space, you've made that
roof space particularly cold because you're not getting When we
didn't have as much insulation in our ceilings, R3. 6 for example,
now the most recent changes said that it's got to
be R6. 6. Now that's going, but right now there's a

(55:38):
whole lot of houses that have been built in the
last couple of years with R6. 6 insulation as required by
the building code in those ceiling spaces. There's very little airflow.
That space has become colder because there's not heat transfer
from below through that insulation layer into the roof space.
That space is now cold, it's condensating, and literally you

(56:01):
can see the moisture, the condensation, hanging on the underside
of the roofing underlay on essentially a brand new building.
It's a problem, and it's not a small problem. And
so I think this is going to become one of those, well,

(56:26):
there's lots of talk that it's leaky buildings 2.0, right?
So to some degree, we've got ways of ensuring that
moisture doesn't get into our buildings from the outside, a
la leaky claddings and so on. That was leaky building 1.0,
leaky buildings 2.0, lack of, knowledge, lack of processes for

(56:49):
dealing with internal moisture, and our buildings are literally leaking
on the inside now. 0800 80 1080, the number to call. Rick,
good morning to you.

Speaker 10 (57:02):
Morning.

Speaker 16 (57:02):
You were talking about replacing flashings on stucco houses last week.

Speaker 9 (57:07):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 16 (57:08):
I've got a lot less invasive way of doing it.

Speaker 9 (57:11):
Go for it.

Speaker 16 (57:13):
Basically... if the window frame is level with the top
of your stucco, then just cut a piece of, say,
50 by 10, about 45 degrees on the top and
fix that level and hold that temporally on the surface

(57:33):
and then just have a disc grinder with a concrete
cutting blade and cut in, say, 20mm. And then as
long as your flashing fits all right, then fill the
gap up with sealant and you can just slide your
new flashing up into the gap and seal it. So

(57:56):
you don't have a big mess where you have to
break anything up to do that.

Speaker 9 (57:59):
Yeah, and look, I hear what you're saying, and that's
kind of a pragmatic approach in the sense that if
it's the flashing that's deteriorated and it's often that leading
edge of the flashing... then what you're doing is essentially
removing the old one that started to corrode and putting
a new one in like that. I suppose, you know,
in terms of we all know that, you know, how
flashings work now is they go back to the building line,

(58:23):
they go up, they're taped to the roof, you know,
to the building underlay, those sorts of things. So we
know that you're not able to do all of that
in this instance. But in terms of is, I guess
it's almost like a Hippocratic Oath type thing, right? First
do no wrong.

Speaker 13 (58:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (58:40):
So in repairing the cladding, do you make a larger
repair which has more potential for leakage, or do you
do sort of a targeted approach like what you're discussing,
which is you cut a line, you know you've probably
got 20 mil of solid plaster to deal with, you
can be a little bit surgical with how far you
go into the cut, fill, you know, bead of sealant,

(59:04):
and I'm very cautious about the use of sealant, bead
of sealant in there, press the flashing into it, sealant
at the front edge again and you're right, it's a
less disruptive method of dealing with those corroded flashings after
that call last week someone did text her and just
went come on mate surely it's got to be at

(59:25):
a reclad stage I don't know I think some of
these old places like there will be issues with moisture
getting in and decay behind the plaster I think when
you go into these houses and actually really start pulling
them apart, you'll find that there's reasonably extensive decay in

(59:46):
those areas, but they still hang up. And I remember
working on a place that had, you might recall it,
a product called Victory Board, which was like a concrete
panel that was fixed directly to the timber framing on
the outside. And then it was a substrate for a
solid plaster. Apparently it was developed sometime in the 1940s

(01:00:08):
when maybe other types of cladding were not as available,
hence the Victory Board reference, I think. And I worked
on a property where it was really sound on the
outside because it was like 50 mil of solid concrete
panel on the exterior. But because there was no damp
proof course between the concrete and the timber on the inside,

(01:00:30):
almost all of the studs for building you know, between
5 to 15 millimetres of that face that was attached
to the concrete had started to decay. House was still
standing up, but it was like, ooh, shivers. We might
just be a little bit gentle about how we work
on this. So you wonder whether with an old plaster
house you might have similar issues.

Speaker 16 (01:00:52):
Well, I guess it depends how long you leave your
flashings on before you replace them.

Speaker 9 (01:00:56):
Well, that's right. And this is the challenge with certain
types of, of building materials and methodologies is, is some
of them are relatively straightforward, um, to maintain. And I'm
thinking about, you know, a weatherboard typically on an older house,
you know, the head flashing just extends up and underneath
the overlapping board, uh, in the event that that head

(01:01:17):
flashing deteriorates, you kind of punch the nails or pull
the nails out, pry the board forward, pull the flashing out,
new flashing up and under job done.

Speaker 8 (01:01:25):
Right.

Speaker 9 (01:01:26):
Um, so that would qualify in areas or with a,
where you only got a 15 year durability, but if
you've got a 50 year durability as required by the
building code, you'd have to look at those flashings and go, well,
they've got to be a lot more durable. So they
need to be stainless steel.

Speaker 8 (01:01:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:01:43):
It's an interesting one. Hey, appreciate the call and the insight, Rick. Um,
thank you very much for that. Can I just say, I,
I mentioned at the beginning of the show, um, I've
had a kind of, well, I've had a good week actually. Um,
And part of that is because I've encountered a couple
of people this week who are just outstanding, and I'd
describe them as salt of the earth. So we've, over

(01:02:04):
the years, collected bits and pieces of antiques, and sometimes
we buy and sometimes we sell. And I've had an
old metal gate that we bought because I was going
to make a project and use it, and I didn't
because that's typically me. And so we put it online
and we sold it, and Grant and Bridget, who run
a little antique store, a homewares store called So Unique

(01:02:25):
in the Hawke's Bay, came up, and they were fantastic.
They were just the most delightful people. It turns out, though,
that Bridget's mum and dad, I think, Dawn and Larry,
are regular listeners to the show, and thank you, and
quite enjoy it. So to Dawn and Larry, you've done
an outstanding job with your kid, who's not a kid

(01:02:47):
my age now. And to Grant and Bridget, we had
a fantastic, this is one of those classic sort of
trade me slash marketplace pickups where you end up talking
for an hour just because people are good people. So
it was awesome. So thank you. It was a delight
to meet you. And to Dawn and Larry in the
Hawke's Bay, a very good morning and lovely to have

(01:03:07):
you listening to the show this morning.

Speaker 6 (01:03:09):
It is 7.28.

Speaker 9 (01:03:09):
Back in a moment.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
Turning uh-ohs into she'll be right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
The Resident Builder with Peter Wolfcamp and independent building supplies.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
The future of Kiwi building today. Call 0800 80 1080.

Speaker 6 (01:03:22):
Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 9 (01:03:25):
Rightio, lines are open. We've got a couple of spare
lines now for the first time in ages. So 0800
80 10 80 is that number to call. Says Lee
on the text. Morning, Pete. Question came up yesterday at work.
Rediscolouration in one of the residential areas. Bleach came up
as an option. I mentioned lime, but I do recall
on your show sometimes that you were going to scrub
an old toilet. Any help? If it works, I might

(01:03:49):
get a pay rise for good knowledge. Oh, that's fantastic, Lee. Look,
there's all sorts of different ideas out there and all
sorts of home remedies. I found at a hardware store
at the supermarket little tablets. It's almost like denture cleaning.

Speaker 16 (01:04:09):
I don't know.

Speaker 9 (01:04:10):
I don't have dentures, but I remember Dad did, and
every now and then they'd be in the bathroom in
a jar, and he'd put in some little fizzy thing
that helped clean them up. I don't know if that's
still a thing, but anyway. But you can buy little
tablets like that that you put into the toilet bowl
that help dissolve that kind of built-up grime at the

(01:04:30):
bottom of the bowl. So maybe that's an option for you, Lee.
If you get a pay rise, good on you. A
couple of other texts that have come through. Pete, in
regard to the condensation issue in roof spaces, would that
affect a ventilation system? Example, smart vent taking air from
the roof space. I mean, arguably, the addition of some

(01:04:56):
airflow in there might actually help the condensation issue, potentially.
And increasingly, a lot of these ventilation systems, what you
want to do is draw air from outside and vent
air to the exterior as well. So fresh air in,
stale air out, as in out of the building, not

(01:05:17):
just out of one part of the building envelope and
into another one.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
As well.

Speaker 9 (01:05:22):
But like I say, I think it's one of those
things where this is going to be, I think this
is a fairly significant issue that we're going to have
to address quite quickly given the number of houses that
have been built in the last year, two years, three

(01:05:44):
years maybe, that have exactly that type of build-up. Someone
else has said vents in the soffits. I know what
you're saying with regard to that, but if, for example,
there's not a pathway for ventilation from the soffit, if
you've got one, and not all buildings do have soffits anymore,
how do you then get airflow? Yes, it would help,

(01:06:05):
but you also need to actively create a pathway for
that ventilation to occur. And ideally, you need somewhere for
it to come in and go out. So if you
were just to go around, let's say the perimeter of
the building, installing soffit vents, letting air into that space,
where is it getting out? Can you then go and

(01:06:28):
change the roof, the ridge flashing to install a ventilated one?
But typically we do our roofing paper up and over
the top of the trusses and back down. So air
that's on the underside of the roofing underlay doesn't actually
have a pathway there. It It will help possibly a
little bit, but it's nowhere near a good solution. My

(01:06:52):
house was built in the 1970s. There's this text that
the water is coming through the block retaining wall in
the basement. My builder has advised me to apply Ardex
300 on the inside of the block. Is this suitable
for negative tanking, waterproof membrane? It's an important distinction, negative tanking.
There are lots of waterproof membranes that work. when they're

(01:07:13):
on the outside of the surface and the water is
pushing against it, as in it's pressing the waterproofing against
the block wall, for example, or the masonry wall, they
don't necessarily work when they're on the inside and the
water is coming through the material and pushing it off.
So in this instance, in that situation, the hydrostatic pressure,

(01:07:34):
the pressure of the water, is pushing the waterproofing onto
the wall that you're waterproofing. as opposed to pushing through
that wall. So that's why that whole negative pressure thing
is important. The Hydropoxy WMP300 from the technical data is
a water-based epoxy polyamide membrane barrier coating, and it is

(01:07:55):
sufficient and suitable for those negative pressure systems where the
water's coming through the wall and you're applying it to
the inside face, and what you want is it to
stop the moisture at that point. So not all of
them work. I've used those other crystalline solutions where it's
a cementitious material that goes from the inside surface through

(01:08:17):
the wall. That's good as well, but then you can't
apply any other coatings over the top of that. So yeah,
it seems like your advice is reasonably sound on that
one for that Ardex 300. Certainly I'll be having a
look at that myself. Oh, 800, 80, 1080. We can
talk condensation, we can talk discoloration, we can talk flashings,
we can talk I suppose taking sensible, reasonable precautions when

(01:08:40):
you're having to drill or cut or remove material that
may contain asbestos. And if you caught a news story
last week, it was a tradesperson, I think it was
an electrician, probably in his late 40s, maybe early 50s,
who now has, is it myelosephalonia? I can't pronounce it properly.

(01:09:03):
Basically a lung disease that is has a direct result
of exposure to asbestos fibres. So, you know, I think
it's easy to get a little bit complacent around asbestos,
that it's something that used to be around and that
it used to be a problem, but it's not. It's
still out there. And in fact, we might be talking
with someone a little bit more about the asbestos later on.

(01:09:26):
So as I say, after the news, we're going to
be talking with Greg Wallace from the Master Plumbers Drain
Layers Association around a fairly significant shift to building legislation
that will allow self-certification for plumbers from tomorrow. So it
all changes from tomorrow. So ahead of that, We're going
to talk to Greg Wallace after the 8 o'clock news.

(01:09:46):
Now's a good time to call. 0800 80 1080 is
that number to call.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
Helping you finish that five-minute fix you started. The Resident
Builder with Peter Wolfcamp and independent building supplies. The future
of Kiwi building today. Call 0800 80 1080. Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 9 (01:10:06):
As happens on the show sometimes, you hit sort of
a theme, right? And so it's prompted a number of
texts with regard to cleaning. You know, the toilet pan
can get a little bit grimy over time, let's be honest.
Dishwashing tablet works well for those stains in the toilet.

(01:10:27):
Cheap one's okay, says Jason. Someone else mentioned Scalex. You
put it in a couple of days if you're away.
Just leave that in there bubbling away from my tent,
about $ 12 or so. I think you may.

Speaker 6 (01:10:41):
Very cool.

Speaker 9 (01:10:43):
I've tried out one of these little foam drain cleaner
things that you can buy I think they're at Mitre
10 as well actually so it's like a little foam
dispenser and you just put it like a plunger on
top of your waste in the kitchen sink or whatever
and it foams and then works away and then you rinse,

(01:11:04):
leave it there for 30 minutes but the beauty of
it is when you've got the overflow you know how
most sinks now have got an overflow at the back
whether it's the vanity or whatever So if you do
it in the main waste outlet, it fills up all
of the pipework to the point where it goes back
up through the overflow and you can see it sort
of coming out the top. So it's cleaning all of

(01:11:24):
that as well. It's amazing how dirty they get. But anyway,
that's become a small, mild obsession on my part, going
around foaming all of the vents and traps in the house. Rightio, anyway,
enough about me. Ron, good morning, good morning, good morning.

Speaker 12 (01:11:40):
Good morning, Pete.

Speaker 8 (01:11:40):
Greetings.

Speaker 12 (01:11:41):
A couple of things. We've got a 100-year-old rental house
and toilet out in the shed as well as inside,
but the one out in the shed was concreted down
to the floor. And I thought, oh, God, you know,
quite a drama to do it. The old galvanised water

(01:12:03):
pipes that used to come into the houses and they
get rusty and and dribbled into the system's leak down
and put staining from the system into the bowl.

Speaker 9 (01:12:15):
Yes, like rust stains, eh?

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
Essentially, yes.

Speaker 12 (01:12:19):
What did fix it, and it absolutely amazed me, was CLR.

Speaker 9 (01:12:23):
Oh, yep, yep.

Speaker 12 (01:12:25):
And I couldn't believe it. It came up like new.
And so I've had to replace it and things, but
that worked really well. The other thing is we, regarding
condensation on the windows and things like that, same age
of house, which we live next door to, and we

(01:12:48):
used to get single-glazed windows, and we had the old
Fisher ranch sliders there at one stage. We're on the
southern side, and it would sheet water every day, and
there were towels and God knows what along the bottom.
dehumidifier just filled up every day I bought a it

(01:13:11):
was the early type of DVS type I think it
was an English one just with a fan that runs
all the time and ran that through into several places
in the house completely stopped it it runs permanently and
we get no condensation whatsoever we don't use a dehumidifier
anymore it's made a heck of a difference so it

(01:13:33):
sort of sucks the air in from the roof and, uh,
being single glazed and, uh, you know, exits, uh, all
over the place and probably through the bathroom, uh, fan system, uh, too.
So it's been really good for probably 20 years or more.

Speaker 9 (01:13:50):
And I think it's one of those things, um, kind
of fits into that, um, good, better, best type, you know,
approach to, to buildings and so on. So, you know, uh,
Right now, and this is a genuine blind spot, a defect,
a deficit in the building code as it exists today,

(01:14:11):
is there is very little requirement for ventilation. There is
requirements for extraction. You must have an extractor in the bathroom,
those sorts of things. But in terms of actually ventilating,
actively ventilating our houses, there's no requirement. And almost by default,
our houses have become a bit more airtight than they

(01:14:31):
were in the past. but we've done one part of
the equation, we haven't done the others, and we're starting
to see the unintended consequences. The consequences are quite obvious.
I think lots of people have been saying this is
what's going to happen inside our buildings going forward, but
now we're starting to see that.

Speaker 12 (01:14:51):
So with the insulation under the iron in the roof
where it normally sat underneath and then exits into the spouting...
um surely the you know there's a lot of us
the gap between there and in the older systems but
now they're just making them so airtight the places there
yeah it's overboard isn't it uh no no air tightness

(01:15:13):
is a good thing right let's be really clear about
that um achieving air tightness doing a blower door test
on a house prior to completing the house is is
really good if you want a house that's going to
keep you warm, dry, comfortable, not leak lots of energy
and all the rest of it.

Speaker 9 (01:15:29):
You want to be airtight or get close to airtight.
But if you're going to do that, you also need
to provide ventilation and you need to be aware that
you need to control the moisture. So I think the
way in which we've looked at roofing underlays has been–
We've got metal roofing in many cases. You'll get some
condensation underneath that. You've got to capture that and direct

(01:15:49):
it out. So we're doing that, and most roofing underlays
work well to do exactly that. The issue that we're
now seeing, and this is the photographs that someone sent
to me this week, is moisture collecting in that roof
space and being on the underside of that roofing paper,
that roofing underlay. And then it collects there, and then

(01:16:09):
it drops down on top of the insulation and and
then literally the insulation over a period of time potentially
becomes saturated. That then transfers through to the plasterboard. The plasterboard,
because there's excessive moisture in there, will develop mould, and
you'll see black mould growing on the ceiling of a
relatively new house. That's a failure.

Speaker 12 (01:16:29):
The other thing is the soffits. The buildings we're building now,
no soffits on. Opening the tops of the windows to leak.
We've just.
I don't know, they look blimmin' awful too without soffits.

Speaker 9 (01:16:45):
It's funny, I'm tossing up around that whole thing around.
I mean, I agree with you. I think you look
at a more conventional building methodology and you've got 600 soffit, right?
You stand out there when it's raining and go, okay,
so in effect that soffit is providing shade, which is good.
It's also providing shelter, right? Windows hardly get wet unless

(01:17:10):
it's driving rain. And the other day, actually, I've been
doing some work at home and a little laundry and
some casement windows. And I tidied up the windows and
I pulled the head flashing off and I replaced it
with a head flashing that's about 160 millimetres long, right?
So just a longer piece of timber. And I was
looking out at that the other day when it was
raining and the window was just open a little bit

(01:17:30):
for a bit of ventilation. But because I'd extended, made
this little eyebrow effectively over the top of the window,
no moisture on the window, right? So it's raining. It's humid.
I've got some ventilation in there and I'm protecting from
moisture ingress just by having a deeper head flashing. Simple
as that.

Speaker 12 (01:17:49):
How's your penetrol working for you?

Speaker 2 (01:17:52):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:17:53):
Hey, look, I'm going nuts on the old penetrol.

Speaker 2 (01:17:55):
I know.

Speaker 9 (01:17:57):
Oh, actually good on you for mentioning it. So I've
got into this habit. Oh, we've got time.

Speaker 6 (01:18:02):
This is great.

Speaker 9 (01:18:03):
Uh, I, I'll tell you about my conversation with Colin
and Linda in Wellington yesterday, but I popped in to
see the people that run Ad & Vintage in Wellington.
It's a fabulous little store. And then we got talking
about workshops and that. Anyway, so I've got into this
habit now where I'm doing some stuff in the workshop
and I'll have like my primary task, right, which will

(01:18:24):
be fixing the door or whatever it is that I'm doing.
But then in between that, I've started looking around. And
so I grabbed my hand plane, which I've had. I
actually think I bought it before I started my apprenticeship
or before I started building. As a kid, I had
my own little workshop at home and that sort of thing.
So I've got this footprint hand plane, just a little

(01:18:44):
eight-inch hand plane. I've had it for longer than I
can remember. And I've got a crappy workshop. I've got
lots of moisture. It gets lots of rust. So I
pulled it apart and I sanded it all back and
I got rid of all the rust. And then I
had a quick look online going, what can I use
to stop the rust coming back? And I found this
little product called Black Wax. It comes in a little pottle.

(01:19:08):
And I read about it. You get it from Barnes
Distributors in Auckland. I ordered it online. It turned up
the other day. And the recommendation is that you clean
all the surface rust off, hence the penetrol, and then
you warm the metal, just getting rid of the last
of the moisture, and then apply this black wax over it,
very thin coating, and then leave it for just a

(01:19:29):
little while and then polish it up. Anyway, it's worked
a treat. The hand plane looks awesome. I stripped all
the coating off the handles and just oiled the handles
instead of having lacquer on them. sharpened up the blade,
put it all back together again. I'm not going to
tell you how long I spent on it, but I
did get some other jobs done. But, man, the pleasure

(01:19:51):
in just, you know, getting some tools cleaned up, getting
rid of the rust, applying a coating to them. Bloody awesome.

Speaker 12 (01:19:59):
The penetrol would have done the whole thing and just
leave nothing else over the wooden handle and everything.

Speaker 6 (01:20:06):
Oh, OK. OK.

Speaker 9 (01:20:07):
Oh, I quite like the idea of a bit of
Danish oil or actually Brywax on the handle. So that's
what I used.

Speaker 12 (01:20:15):
Well, the other thing is aluminium windows. Put the penetral
on a rag and go round the aluminium windows. It'll
bring up powder coating like it's absolutely brand new.

Speaker 6 (01:20:26):
Brilliant.

Speaker 9 (01:20:26):
Hey, sorry, I've got to run. But thanks for your
topic about the CRL too, because some of the C-C-L-R-L, no,
that's the rail which opens next week, which I'm kind
of excited about. CRL, which is the product that you
mentioned about getting rust stains off, that might work for
the texter as well who said, hey, look, how do
I remove rust stains off a concrete driveway? Large area,

(01:20:48):
about 10 square metres. I would have a go at
the CRLR as opposed to the CRL, which opens next week,
and I'm kind of tempted to go on the train
next week as well. Right, I need to take a break.
Back after the break.

Speaker 1 (01:21:02):
Where DIY gets unstuck. Call 0800 80 1080. The resident
builder with Peter Wolfcamp and independent building supplies. The future
of Kiwi building today. Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 9 (01:21:16):
So after the news today, a quick catch up with
Greg Wallace, chief executive of the Master Plumbers, Gasfitters and
Drain Layers New Zealand Incorporated. just to catch up on
a fairly significant change to legislation that governs basically who
can self-certify and who can't. So we'll catch up with
that after the break. I just mentioned when we were
chatting with Ron, I was in Wellington yesterday for the

(01:21:38):
Home and Garden Show, which was great. I pop in
and see Colin and Linda, who run Ad Plus Vintage,
a small sort of mid-century store. Bought a few little
bits and pieces from them. Colin, God bless him, I
was listening to the show a couple of weeks ago
where I mentioned a Yankee screwdriver and that it's hard
to find an adapter that you can use like crosshead

(01:21:59):
and square drives and that sort of thing. So I
arrive in the store yesterday, sit down for a bit
of a catch-up and that sort of thing, and he
reaches over and hands me an adapter that he had
made himself. He is a very, very skilled craftsman and
metal worker. But I was just struck by the tremendous
consideration that someone listens to a conversation and knows that

(01:22:20):
I'm popping in and gives me that gift, which I
will treasure. So to Colin and Linda at Ad Plus Vintage,
thank you. That was a tremendous moment of kindness, and
I'm greatly appreciative. Back after the break.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
Measure twice. Call once. On 0800 80 1080.

Speaker 1 (01:22:37):
The Resident Builder with Peter Wolfcamp and independent building supplies.

Speaker 2 (01:22:42):
The future of Kiwi building today. Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 9 (01:22:46):
Well, we're talking all things building and construction on the
show this morning. And then, as a chippy, we're going
to be talking about plumbing in just a moment. But
before then, ladies and gentlemen, as always, on a Sunday morning,
just after the 8 o'clock news, it is, of course, Lufthansa. Yes, indeed.
So for those of you who might have heard this

(01:23:07):
alarm just for the first time, the idea is that
you get up in the morning, you open a couple
of doors and windows, maybe front door, back door, Allow
all that stale air that's built up overnight to be
vented out and allow a little bit of fresh air
to come into the house, then close it up. I
know it's starting to warm up. I mean, it was 12,
13 degrees when I left home this morning. But the

(01:23:30):
idea of just a little bit of ventilation, whether you
call it blast ventilation, burping the house as the Americans do,
or the European luft in time. I'll stick with luft
in time. That's a good thing to do.

Speaker 10 (01:23:42):
Rightio.

Speaker 9 (01:23:43):
So on the program this morning, we are going to
be talking with Greg Wallace from the New Zealand... I'm
just checking the number. Greg Wallace from the... There's quite
a long lead-up to this, which is that it is the...

(01:24:07):
master plumbers gas fitters and drain layers new zealand incorporated
uh and the reason that we're going to have a
chat with him is around a change to legislation that
takes place from tomorrow with regard to self-certification so we'll
we'll have a bit of a chat with greg shortly
on that um we've got a couple of texts as
well just around leaking and so on it's this whole

(01:24:29):
thing probably try and do a couple of posts on
social media with some photographs to explain what it is
that I'm talking about or what's been also shown to
me as well in terms of this issue seemingly with
some relatively new builds where there is excessive moisture accumulating
in the roof space that's forming condensation on the underside

(01:24:50):
of the roofing underlay which is fairly conventional in New
Zealand and then condensating and dripping down so it's a
some of the photographs that I've seen, it is a
considerable amount of moisture that's accumulating in that roof space,
which is not where it should be and potentially, um,

(01:25:10):
has some fairly significant impacts as well on the health
and the durability of the building. So we'll talk about
that over the next couple of weeks. Um, and as
I mentioned, I had the opportunity this week to go
along to the master builders, uh, association, the annual conference, um,
fair amount of sort of political discussion there, as you

(01:25:31):
would expect, including the opportunity to listen to Simon Watts,
who's the new building and construction minister. I was able
to join him for lunch along with a whole bunch
of other people and kind of get an insight into
some of his background. And then off the back of that,
I said, look, how would you feel about coming into
the studio? So sometime in the next couple of weeks.
we should have the new building and construction minister in

(01:25:54):
the studio. So that'll be in the next few weeks
as well. 0800 80 1080 is that number to call.
We'll just take a short break and come back to
you in just a moment.

Speaker 1 (01:26:03):
Fixing what they forgot to mention on that YouTube video.
The resident builder with Peter Wolfcamp and independent building supplies.
The future of Kiwi building today.

Speaker 2 (01:26:13):
Call 0800 80 1080. Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 9 (01:26:14):
13 minutes after 8, remember, Rude Klein passed from 8.30
this morning. So self-certification for plumbing and drain laying is
a new opt-in scheme that lets endorsed plumbers and drain
layers self-certify, i.e. sign off, eligible work that complies with

(01:26:35):
the building consent. To join me on the show this morning,
Greg Wallace from the New Zealand Master Plumbers, Gasfitters and
Drain Layers New Zealand Incorporated. A very good morning and
thanks for joining me this morning, Greg. How are you?

Speaker 6 (01:26:52):
Good morning, Peter. Great to be on.

Speaker 9 (01:26:53):
Yeah, cool. So I guess the picture, the way in
which people might relate to this is if you've ever
had work done that requires a building consent, we all
know that we have to get council inspectors to come out,
whether as a chippy that's waiting for them to do
a pre-line inspection or a wrap inspection or whatever. But
then if you're a plumber, you're also waiting for them

(01:27:14):
to come and check the way that you've plumb the
mixer in or the way that you've done the terminal
vent to the toilet or whatever needs to be done.
So potentially from tomorrow, that's going to change.

Speaker 6 (01:27:28):
Yeah, it is.

Speaker 11 (01:27:29):
And look, it's been a long battle to get here,
but it is great collaboration that we've had with the
government and MV and the regulator to to prove the
point that we've got great quality tradespeople in New Zealand,
and particularly the plumbing trade, which does a five-year qualification,

(01:27:51):
so three years to sit an exam for tradesperson, and
then another two years to get certified. It's a little
bit unusual. They sit two exams, they get a a
qualification to say they're certified, but they.

Speaker 6 (01:28:05):
Actually can't certify a new building.

Speaker 11 (01:28:08):
So, and same for drain laying, you know, they do
a two-year exam, then another year to get certified. And
it's really important that we get some productivity gains in
the construction industry for New Zealand.

Speaker 9 (01:28:20):
Because, you know, God bless building inspectors and councils and
all the rest of it, but, you know, everyone that
you talk to in the trade goes, look, I want
to backfill this trench, but I can't get an inspection
for three days. And in the meantime, no other work
can continue. So I guess that productivity gain potentially can
come from eliminating the time spent waiting for those inspections.

(01:28:45):
The other thing just by way of sort of, I suppose,
to try and paint a picture for our listeners is that,
you know, for years now, electrical work. So again, think
about a renovation, think about a new build. Electrician turns up,
they run all the cables, they connect to the distribution board,
they fit off all of that. They self-certify. if they

(01:29:06):
have the suitable qualifications. So I guess in a sense,
it's not dissimilar to a regime that already exists for
electricians up to now and for gas fitters, interestingly enough.

Speaker 11 (01:29:17):
Yes, so gas-fitting has been self-certifying since 2013. And a
lot of people would argue that there may be a
high risk for gas-fitting for obvious reasons.

Speaker 9 (01:29:28):
Yes.

Speaker 11 (01:29:29):
But the reality is, I think your point is right.
You said three to four days to wait for an inspection.
When we knew after COVID and still today, we can
wait to.

Speaker 6 (01:29:39):
10 to 14 days.

Speaker 9 (01:29:41):
I'm being generous.

Speaker 6 (01:29:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (01:29:44):
I spoke to a drain layer the other day. He
said he basically has sleepless nights, particularly in Auckland with
your weather, where he's got an open trench. He's laid
his pipes.

Speaker 6 (01:29:55):
It can be up to 100 metres.

Speaker 11 (01:29:57):
And he's lying awake at night thinking that his pipes
are going to be floating away. Now, that's not practical.
And with new technology, including apps, video, and photography, we're
actually also trialing a tool which is an AI tool
which takes those images, drops it into an AI tool,

(01:30:18):
and then it proves that the installation is compliant.

Speaker 6 (01:30:23):
Brilliant. Brilliant.

Speaker 9 (01:30:24):
Now, the other thing in reading this and reading some
of the government papers on this, it's an opt-in scheme.
So can you just work me through? So it's saying
it's for eligible. So self-certification, it's an opt-in. So endorsed
plumbers and drain layers. What does that endorsed actually mean?

Speaker 6 (01:30:48):
Yeah, that's a good question.

Speaker 11 (01:30:50):
Peter, we have a plumbing gas fitting drain layer regulator.
And look, you will have to be able to apply
on Monday. And we imagine we'll get a lot of
our practitioners applying. You will then have to prove that
you have appropriate assurance. You'll have to prove that you
have a.

Speaker 9 (01:31:09):
Can we just focus in on that? Because this is
something kind of new to the industry. So what you're
saying is in order to become endorsed... You need to apply.
You need to prove that you have insurance.

Speaker 6 (01:31:22):
Yes, you do.

Speaker 11 (01:31:24):
And particularly around indemnity insurance. Now, just about all master
plumber practitioners have to have a minimum insurance level for
our membership. The one that has always been a bit
grey is indemnity insurance. And indemnity insurance is when you're designing. Now,
the reality is when we're getting residential builds, we don't

(01:31:45):
always get a plumbing design as part of that. And
so when you're designing a system, it's really important that
you have indemnity insurance. So you're designing and doing the insulation. Now,
you'll know on site things change.

Speaker 9 (01:31:59):
Sure.

Speaker 11 (01:32:00):
Builders put things in the way or practical solutions have
to be worked out on site. And that's actually just design.
It's just knowing which is the most practical place to
put the water pipes, to put the sanitary plumbing, and
then working that through with the builder and the architect.

Speaker 6 (01:32:21):
So there's that.

Speaker 11 (01:32:21):
There's also a quality assurance program. So we've got members
in Queensland and Wanaka using drones to take images of
all the pre-slab work. And so we've got great technology
that's actually helping.

Speaker 6 (01:32:37):
And then our.

Speaker 11 (01:32:38):
Practitioners will also have to do a two-hour training scheme
online just so they're understanding the evidence that they'll need
to provide to make sure the consenting authorities are accepting
that the work meets the relevant standards.

Speaker 9 (01:32:57):
I think it's great. So in terms of, obviously... Plumbers
and drain layers and gas fitters have been doing maintenance
work forever, right? And if it doesn't require a consent,
there's obviously no reason to get a plumbing inspector to
come and have a look at the work. So this
is for work that requires a building consent, but it

(01:33:19):
will be able to be signed off by the endorsed
plumber who's proved their competency in this area. So at
the end of the job, what's the... What's the sort
of approval? What's the assurity for the homeowner? Is it
a producer statement as per what we've been doing already
or is there a new document to prove that self-certification thing?

(01:33:40):
I'm thinking about electricians who might issue a COC at
the end of the job.

Speaker 11 (01:33:45):
Yeah, there still will be a PS3 required for most jobs.
But I suppose the advantage of this job is we're
going to use an app created by brands called Artisan.
We'll take photos on that app. We'll have a digital record.
You'll also have the practitioner that has signed that off.
And that stays as a record of work for that dwelling. Now,

(01:34:07):
the advantage of that is the photos or the video
evidence will be uploaded to the cloud. And then a
homeowner who purchased that property will be able to exactly
know what plumber did it, what year it was, and
have the imagery to back that up.

Speaker 6 (01:34:27):
Now, when there's... When there's a leak or a nail
goes through the pipe, it's actually very helpful to have
the digital records. Now, we haven't had that.

Speaker 11 (01:34:35):
Before, so we think this is a huge improvement, able
to look back at work that's been done over decades.

Speaker 8 (01:34:43):
Yep.

Speaker 9 (01:34:44):
And this is where the technology's actually become useful now.
And Artisan is a great app. And again, for people listening,
Artisan can be used by builders in terms of remote
inspections as well. That's one of those things that's in
the pipeline for us, pardon the pun, for us as well.
But obviously, I mean, look, I think it's a good thing.

(01:35:05):
I think that, you know, I guess from a consumer
point of view, we want to make sure that it's
not open slather, right? That somehow because the inspector's not
looking over your shoulder, that the work's not going to
be done well or correctly. Because I think also, you know,
often with plumbing and drainage work and that sort of thing,

(01:35:26):
we underestimate the complexity. And I think, too, as consumers,
we sometimes underestimate the safety element, the health element to it,
that when it does go wrong, it can have quite
severe impacts on either the people inside the house or
neighbours or, you know, someone's got, any raw sewage floating
across their section because somebody left out a junction. You know,

(01:35:49):
we want to make sure that we don't see that.

Speaker 6 (01:35:52):
Yeah, look, I absolutely agree.

Speaker 11 (01:35:54):
I think the point that you made about renovations, so
in New Zealand, any plumber can come to an existing
bathroom renovation. You can move the fixtures all around the
existing bathroom. You can pre-pipe it. You can change the
sanitary plumbing and refit that out. Now, under Schedule 1,
you'll know this, you don't need a plumbing consent or

(01:36:17):
a drainers consent.

Speaker 6 (01:36:18):
So all we're.

Speaker 11 (01:36:19):
Doing really is, so we have been self-certifying for renovations
and repairs for decades. All we're doing is taking some
new technology and putting that into the new construction process.
I think, you know, the Prime Minister has said this
many times in construction forums. It is 50% cheaper to

(01:36:40):
build a house in Australia than it is New Zealand. Now,
we know we've got earthquakes, we know we've got weather conditions,
but they've got productivity gains, Peter, and those gains we
need to get in the construction to actually bring construction
costs down.

Speaker 9 (01:36:54):
Yeah, I mean, look, we can have a long discussion
about that. I think sometimes you look at Australian building
quality and it's pretty poor. to be blunt. But just
before we go, I knew this was going to happen,
so a person listening to this has ticked through, and
I'm just going to read it out verbatim, right?

Speaker 8 (01:37:12):
Yes.

Speaker 9 (01:37:12):
Hey, Pete, surely anyone can see that self-certification is a
disaster waiting to happen. It's a licence for rogue tradies
to run riot, and it's only there so that councils
can advocate their enforcement responsibility, talking about letting the lunatics
run the asylum from ROM. Your response?

Speaker 11 (01:37:33):
Look, we've got an amazing qualified industry. For PGD, it
takes seven years to get the qualifications. They're backed up
by evidence, which is photographic evidence. They have to go
through training.

Speaker 6 (01:37:49):
They have to submit it.

Speaker 11 (01:37:51):
I mean, when I go to the doctor, I don't
go and get another doctor to come and assess if
he's given me the right penicillin. We're trying to make
the tradespeople responsible for the work, and they.

Speaker 6 (01:38:05):
Will be held to account. There are audits, there are
processes in place, and there's safety checks.

Speaker 13 (01:38:11):
Okay.

Speaker 9 (01:38:12):
Look, I tend to agree with you. Because in the end,
what we're talking about, and again, reading from the building.gov.nz website,
It's an opt-in scheme for endorsed plumbers and drain layers, right?
So not everyone's going to reach the threshold. There will
be people working who just won't be allowed to sign
off their own work. So now for a homeowner or

(01:38:35):
a person commissioning a new build, how do you know
if your plumber has been endorsed and is eligible to self-certify?

Speaker 11 (01:38:44):
So it has to be part of the consenting process.

Speaker 6 (01:38:46):
So there will be a tick box to.

Speaker 11 (01:38:48):
Say, do you want to self-certify the plumbing and drain
laying on this property? Now, Homeowners can choose not to
do that, but they will get all the additional costs
and time delays on that. What we're saying is, isn't
it best that the trades people are responsible for their work?
And look, they are responsible for renovation and repairs, and

(01:39:11):
so there's no balance in check for that.

Speaker 6 (01:39:12):
And we haven't had five years across.

Speaker 11 (01:39:14):
Renovation and repairs. So all we're doing is taking this
program to new builds, The other point I'll say, in Australia,
particularly in Victoria, they've had the scheme for 20 years, right?
There's been no failures of any significance, particularly in Victoria,
with this program. You know, it also moves into light commercial.

(01:39:38):
And so some plumbers are having to get four inspectors
as inspections to just put a little kitchenette in.

Speaker 10 (01:39:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 11 (01:39:46):
In a cafe. And look, if we can't, if the
industry can't put a kitchenette in a cafe and do
that efficiency, then we've got more problems than this scheme.

Speaker 6 (01:39:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:39:58):
Look, I think that the scheme seems to be well
worked out. It's going to be robust. It is opt-in.
You do have to be endorsed. You do have to
provide evidence that you've got insurance, and there are some
checks and balances, and using the technology to then determine.
You can look back in a year and go, well, actually,
that bloody Y junction's facing the wrong way. No wonder

(01:40:19):
it's blocking, right? So I think, broadly speaking, it's a
great idea. Thanks for all the work that you've done
on this, because I know, as you mentioned, it takes
a while to get the wheels in government moving on
things like this. But your work and the work of
your team to get this underway is great. And people
should read a little bit more, maybe go to your
website or have a look at the building.gov.nz website. It's

(01:40:42):
got quite a lot of information as well. Greg, thanks
very much for your time this morning. Really appreciate it.

Speaker 6 (01:40:46):
Thanks very much, Peter.

Speaker 9 (01:40:48):
Pleasure to talk. Take care.

Speaker 1 (01:40:53):
Where DIY gets unstuck. Call 0800 80 1080, the resident builder,
with Peter Wolfcamp and independent building supplies.

Speaker 2 (01:41:03):
The future of Kiwi building today. Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 9 (01:41:14):
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Speaker 1 (01:42:16):
Turning uh-ohs into she'll be right the resident builder with
peter wolf camp and independent building supplies the future of
kiwi building today call 0800 80 1080 news talk zb
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