June 10, 2026 • 7 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And we've reported extensively about forty four year old Brent Graham,
(00:04):
the man who escaped from the Darwin Local Court on
Friday from under the supervision of private security firm G
four s Now. It raised questions about the capability of
well of that company taking over some responsibilities from the
Corrections Department, but the Deputy Chief Minister and Corrections Minister
Jared Maylee dismissed those concerns on the show on Tuesday
(00:26):
and said, look at some processes had been undertaken to
prevent anything similar in the future happen. But the Community
and Public Sector Union say that the incident highlights the
risks of outsourcing public sector jobs. Now joining us on
the line is the cps u's regional secretary, Suwan Adamson.
(00:46):
Good morning to Suan. Just having an issue there with
that phone line. Let's see if we can get it
up and running. Good morning to you, Suaran.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Good morning, Katie, thanks.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
So yeah, good morning, I'm really good. Thank you so
much for your time this morning. Now tell me this
was a pretty brazen escape by this prisoner. Does the
union feel it wouldn't have happened had corrections been in control?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Also from from our end, are we sort of we're
even concerned around the danger of outsourcing sort of correction
jobs to private security companies like t for us, and
this was this is sort of a weeen this recent
escape and the capture that plays that's played out this
week for the prisoner escape. I like the risk of
outsourcing publics at the jobs and a sort of the
safety and webbing it has on sort of community. From
(01:33):
our end, our members have been very clear to us
that's sort of when jobs are maintained within the Northern
Textic government, the sort of your your tax pay money
has then been able to then be used to sort
of fund training support rather than it becoming sort of
a profit for a foreign company like GFLUS.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Now, tell me, has the union received any feedback regarding
concerns about the work of G four s, so you know,
like from our correctional officers or from others at this point.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Oh, yes, no, definitely. My member speaks to me every
single day. Regained the importance of maintaining sort of jobs
within the Northern Territory government. It is sort of really
really key within sort of department corrections or across the
Northern Arrectorate government. That these sort of jobs are sort
of sort of public service jobs rather than jobs that
you're outsourced, which then run the risk of sort of
(02:21):
lower service delivery. We sort of the members being very
very clear that these jobs really sort of need to
be Northern Charrectory.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Government jobs and tell me, I mean we we actually why.
I asked the minister who's also the Deputy Chief Minister,
Jared Mayley about this on the show on Monday. He
said that, you know that they've done a bit of
a review. I don't know if they're going to be
looking into it further, but he'd sort of indicated that
he didn't have any real concerns about the management by
G four as I mean, what do you say to that.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Sort of sort of it is sort of I guess
that's the government's progative. Yeah, that's the pro government's progative.
And I sort of with this, we have we have
seen risk, would have seen sort of a prisoner escape
and then has to be sort of recaptured by Northern
Territory police from our from their land. Our members are
very sort of clear that's sort of that they they
sort of want their unions to advocate for strong public
(03:13):
services and jobs that still remain within the public service.
If whether it's in the Department correction, department health, and
then sort of then we are able to then sort
of provide that sort of strong service delivery that's the
territory and territory into rely on every single day. These
are critical services, whether it be in department correction, is
protecting protecting our community, whether it be for a sort
(03:33):
of department health instead of supporting sort of supporting a
health these are sort of job that really sort of
it's really key that we do maintain within within some
normal unship government. Otherwise us that have run the risk
of sort of of a foreign company which is driven
by a sort of profit in seat of reducing services
of Brest.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Now tell me, I mean with this contract with g Forest,
did this contract signal to you the union that if
this partnership was successful or effective at saving money, that
the CLP government would look to more privatization opportunities.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, yeah, definitely. The sealthy government has looked towards more
further privatizations opportunities within department corrections as well, and within
this exact same section of Department corrections in transfer prisoners.
So they've got to sort of pen that out sort
of a five years for one hundred million dollars for
this sort of yet within this area.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Tell me, I mean to play Devil's advocates. What could
correctional officers have sort of done differently in this brazen
escape versus what G four S officers did Because from
you know, the way that it was reported, and we're
just up the road from where this happened, he's jumped
over the you know, he's jumped over the barrier and
he's absolutely legged it. Like I don't you know, I'm
(04:45):
certainly not a police officer. I don't have the background info.
But it also seemed like he was being helped by
other people. So I just don't know that our correctional
officers could have managed it any differently.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Oh that sort of a members have been sort of
a clear sort of by being sort of by being
nomentitary government public. So then today after that have the
ability sort of additional training and that support and that
which is not the fault of the G for S
worker to ben then be able to do their job
to the best of the ability. When you sort of
when when governments sort of looked to sort of outsource
like they're sort of done and this is not the
(05:17):
first time I got government to look for outsourls. We
look at the ste having at Victoria and you stup
Wales and stuff like that. You've seen over time a
fall and sort of in sort of services we and
then you've even looked at those governments and then then
to gone full circle and then gone back to insourcing.
So we sort of were members of clear that has
been very clear to me to advocate that we don't
want to have we don't we don't want to put
(05:38):
territories at risk and to go through that full circle
of outsourcing all these roles. Then you're having a lot
of reduced service and then having to insource it like
like New South Wales and Victoria have gone through.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
So one are you concerned? Is the CPSU concerned that
you know that we could see more of this kind
of thing when we have got a privatized workforce dealing
with you know, with prisoners there at the courthouse.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I think sort of, yeah, we're definitely. Our members have
been very clear that they are concerned in around produced
reduction of sort of public services and sort of then
the ability to provide services when works are been outsourced.
So if you look at sort of g versus sort
of Portulan Prison, we've sort of seen either report from
the Victorian or order the general look at sort of
how they're sort of there's been exposed weaknesses and sort
(06:25):
of been managing security risks. Our members are within the
Department Corrections. They speak to their colleagues in Victoria, South
Australia across across the and they get that feedback, and
the feedback has been very clear from public correction offices
in other territories in other states that sort of outsourcing
is not the way to go if we want to
protect territory, territorianes, so so on.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
From what you're saying, in some of those other states,
have they gone from it being you know, public service
jobs to then going to you know, to private jobs
and now they're going back.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yep, that's correct, right, So we've seen sort of yeah,
because we've seen a sort of a Jurish service delivery.
So I think the Victorian example, you sort of see
you'd see sort of a French whips being closed down,
then they opened up Port Phillip and then now that
they've opened Western Plains and then sort of you've seen
in Queens and they've gone members tell me that sort
of they've gone from a privatized model and investing in
sourcing it because what they've found is key public services
(07:21):
like corrections cannot be sort of done to the same
level once they're outsourced. They really need to be public
service jobs, which sort of sort of and also jobs
that are within the character and not fly and play out,
which sort of our sort of developed territories rely on,
but also sort of families can rely on to be
sort of being employed here well.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
So on Adamson, CPS you into Regional Secretary. I really
appreciate your time this morning. Thanks for having a chat
with us and giving us a bit of a different.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Perspective anytime, Katie, have a good one, you two.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Thank you
And we've reported extensively about forty four year old Brent Graham,
(00:04):
the man who escaped from the Darwin Local Court on
Friday from under the supervision of private security firm G
four s Now. It raised questions about the capability of
well of that company taking over some responsibilities from the
Corrections Department, but the Deputy Chief Minister and Corrections Minister
Jared Maylee dismissed those concerns on the show on Tuesday
(00:26):
and said, look at some processes had been undertaken to
prevent anything similar in the future happen. But the Community
and Public Sector Union say that the incident highlights the
risks of outsourcing public sector jobs. Now joining us on
the line is the cps u's regional secretary, Suwan Adamson.
(00:46):
Good morning to Suan. Just having an issue there with
that phone line. Let's see if we can get it
up and running. Good morning to you, Suaran.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Good morning, Katie, thanks.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
So yeah, good morning, I'm really good. Thank you so
much for your time this morning. Now tell me this
was a pretty brazen escape by this prisoner. Does the
union feel it wouldn't have happened had corrections been in control?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Also from from our end, are we sort of we're
even concerned around the danger of outsourcing sort of correction
jobs to private security companies like t for us, and
this was this is sort of a weeen this recent
escape and the capture that plays that's played out this
week for the prisoner escape. I like the risk of
outsourcing publics at the jobs and a sort of the
safety and webbing it has on sort of community. From
(01:33):
our end, our members have been very clear to us
that's sort of when jobs are maintained within the Northern
Textic government, the sort of your your tax pay money
has then been able to then be used to sort
of fund training support rather than it becoming sort of
a profit for a foreign company like GFLUS.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Now, tell me, has the union received any feedback regarding
concerns about the work of G four s, so you know,
like from our correctional officers or from others at this point.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Oh, yes, no, definitely. My member speaks to me every
single day. Regained the importance of maintaining sort of jobs
within the Northern Territory government. It is sort of really
really key within sort of department corrections or across the
Northern Arrectorate government. That these sort of jobs are sort
of sort of public service jobs rather than jobs that
you're outsourced, which then run the risk of sort of
(02:21):
lower service delivery. We sort of the members being very
very clear that these jobs really sort of need to
be Northern Charrectory.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Government jobs and tell me, I mean we we actually why.
I asked the minister who's also the Deputy Chief Minister,
Jared Mayley about this on the show on Monday. He
said that, you know that they've done a bit of
a review. I don't know if they're going to be
looking into it further, but he'd sort of indicated that
he didn't have any real concerns about the management by
G four as I mean, what do you say to that.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Sort of sort of it is sort of I guess
that's the government's progative. Yeah, that's the pro government's progative.
And I sort of with this, we have we have
seen risk, would have seen sort of a prisoner escape
and then has to be sort of recaptured by Northern
Territory police from our from their land. Our members are
very sort of clear that's sort of that they they
sort of want their unions to advocate for strong public
(03:13):
services and jobs that still remain within the public service.
If whether it's in the Department correction, department health, and
then sort of then we are able to then sort
of provide that sort of strong service delivery that's the
territory and territory into rely on every single day. These
are critical services, whether it be in department correction, is
protecting protecting our community, whether it be for a sort
(03:33):
of department health instead of supporting sort of supporting a
health these are sort of job that really sort of
it's really key that we do maintain within within some
normal unship government. Otherwise us that have run the risk
of sort of of a foreign company which is driven
by a sort of profit in seat of reducing services
of Brest.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Now tell me, I mean with this contract with g Forest,
did this contract signal to you the union that if
this partnership was successful or effective at saving money, that
the CLP government would look to more privatization opportunities.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, yeah, definitely. The sealthy government has looked towards more
further privatizations opportunities within department corrections as well, and within
this exact same section of Department corrections in transfer prisoners.
So they've got to sort of pen that out sort
of a five years for one hundred million dollars for
this sort of yet within this area.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Tell me, I mean to play Devil's advocates. What could
correctional officers have sort of done differently in this brazen
escape versus what G four S officers did Because from
you know, the way that it was reported, and we're
just up the road from where this happened, he's jumped
over the you know, he's jumped over the barrier and
he's absolutely legged it. Like I don't you know, I'm
(04:45):
certainly not a police officer. I don't have the background info.
But it also seemed like he was being helped by
other people. So I just don't know that our correctional
officers could have managed it any differently.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Oh that sort of a members have been sort of
a clear sort of by being sort of by being
nomentitary government public. So then today after that have the
ability sort of additional training and that support and that
which is not the fault of the G for S
worker to ben then be able to do their job
to the best of the ability. When you sort of
when when governments sort of looked to sort of outsource
like they're sort of done and this is not the
(05:17):
first time I got government to look for outsourls. We
look at the ste having at Victoria and you stup
Wales and stuff like that. You've seen over time a
fall and sort of in sort of services we and
then you've even looked at those governments and then then
to gone full circle and then gone back to insourcing.
So we sort of were members of clear that has
been very clear to me to advocate that we don't
want to have we don't we don't want to put
(05:38):
territories at risk and to go through that full circle
of outsourcing all these roles. Then you're having a lot
of reduced service and then having to insource it like
like New South Wales and Victoria have gone through.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
So one are you concerned? Is the CPSU concerned that
you know that we could see more of this kind
of thing when we have got a privatized workforce dealing
with you know, with prisoners there at the courthouse.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I think sort of, yeah, we're definitely. Our members have
been very clear that they are concerned in around produced
reduction of sort of public services and sort of then
the ability to provide services when works are been outsourced.
So if you look at sort of g versus sort
of Portulan Prison, we've sort of seen either report from
the Victorian or order the general look at sort of
how they're sort of there's been exposed weaknesses and sort
(06:25):
of been managing security risks. Our members are within the
Department Corrections. They speak to their colleagues in Victoria, South
Australia across across the and they get that feedback, and
the feedback has been very clear from public correction offices
in other territories in other states that sort of outsourcing
is not the way to go if we want to
protect territory, territorianes, so so on.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
From what you're saying, in some of those other states,
have they gone from it being you know, public service
jobs to then going to you know, to private jobs
and now they're going back.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yep, that's correct, right, So we've seen sort of yeah,
because we've seen a sort of a Jurish service delivery.
So I think the Victorian example, you sort of see
you'd see sort of a French whips being closed down,
then they opened up Port Phillip and then now that
they've opened Western Plains and then sort of you've seen
in Queens and they've gone members tell me that sort
of they've gone from a privatized model and investing in
sourcing it because what they've found is key public services
(07:21):
like corrections cannot be sort of done to the same
level once they're outsourced. They really need to be public
service jobs, which sort of sort of and also jobs
that are within the character and not fly and play out,
which sort of our sort of developed territories rely on,
but also sort of families can rely on to be
sort of being employed here well.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
So on Adamson, CPS you into Regional Secretary. I really
appreciate your time this morning. Thanks for having a chat
with us and giving us a bit of a different.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Perspective anytime, Katie, have a good one, you two.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Thank you
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