November 26, 2025 • 10 mins
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now we know it's been a big year for corrections,
(00:02):
with record prisoner numbers and plenty of work undertaken in
an effort to bring additional space online, additional beds online. Now,
the government also yesterday announced that they'd be strengthening frontline
corrections capability further, with forty three local G four S
officers commencing this month. Now, with the addition of the
new G four S officers, the government's workforce will they
(00:25):
say it's going to stand, the Northern Territory Workforce, I
should say, is going to stand sixty eight employees across
the territory. Now joining us in the studio to give
us a bit of an update after what has been
quite a big year for corrections. The Deputy Commissioner for
Custodial Operations Kim McKay, Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
To you, Good morning, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah, great to have you in the studio.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Now, tell me before we get into an update on
those prisoner numbers, how are things going in terms of
prisoners being involved in the cyclone cleanup?
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Yeah, Look, you know we're actively engaged in that space
and I think one of the things that you'll list
and its probably forgets or doesn't know is our staff
were hunkered down during the cyclone and we're one of
those twenty four to seven services that you know, our
staff are committed to maintaining community safety, you know, rain,
hail or shine. But after the cyclone, you know, our
work continues and at the moment, we've got thirty six
(01:17):
of our work party team members out there, so that's
five or six work crews out every day helping out.
And the guys went out and helped set up Marara
and the cool Linger Recovery centers to get started. And
then over the last few days, you know, they've moved
about five tons of waste from different houses and they've
even been dropping in on some of the you know,
the survivors for cyclone, Tracy, some of our regulars and
(01:40):
just making sure they're all right, because the boys want
to make sure that, you know, everyone who might be
traumatized by that event has some support. And they've also
been doing about five or six a day like emergency
call out, so some of our regulars will ring up
and say, look, I really need some extra help right now,
and as we can, we're sending out teams to help
those those people in need.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I reckon.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
That's an excellent thing to do, I think, you know,
to me, it seems like a fantastic thing to do
in terms of you know that rehabilitation and being part
of the community and you know, helping.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Others after you've gotten.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yourself maybe into a you know, into a situation where
you've wound up in a correctional facility. But being out
there and able to be a constructive part of the community.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, I think it is really important.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
I think the idea of being a member of the
community and being an active member of the community is
really important. But the other piece is the work the
guys do with the pensioners. So we know that the
elderly sometimes is frightened of crime. So to get a
different aspect from the men and see them in a
different line and get some help from them, I think
is a really important community partnership.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Hey, can you touch on this a moment ago.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Obviously all of your staff, all the prisoners hunkered down
throughout the cyclone. How did things go at our top
being correctional facilities.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Yeah, all of our infrastructure held up and it was
really a good test for us to be back into
the old Berama side and you know, all of our
security systems held up, our infrastructure, held up, all of
our additions in their held water tight, which was really good.
And you know, we shuffled our people around as we
do during cyclone, and we got it back the next day,
back into normal operations as quickly as we could. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Hey, in terms of you know, of our correctional facilities,
how full of the prisons at the moment, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Look at you know, we're still in that in that
growth period, but it's a stable period. So you know,
this time last year we were talking about two hundred
and ninety seven prisoners and today we're sitting at you know,
twenty eight hundred and twelve, and that fluctuates twenty or
thirty every day, but overall, that's in twelve months an
increase of five hundred and thirty four. And you know,
(03:46):
I think early in the year we were talking crisis.
I think we've got through it, you know, and we've
got it through it because the connected system has pulled
together and the improvements that.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
The system has made.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
You know, it's not just about on more beds, it's
about the rest of the services and systems that go
around that to keep people out and stop them from
coming back.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
They're massive numbers.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
So I mean, when you look at that growth over
a twelve month period, it is a huge amount of
additional prisoners for correctional staff to be dealing with. You know,
talk us through how you've really managed to, you know,
to deal with those numbers. So I know, there's been
quite a bit of work that's happened within corrections over
the last twelve months.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
I think when we were talking, you know, in March
right through to the middle of the year, we were
talking about a system in crisis, and I think that
was our theme, and you know, and that included the
work that our staff had to do in watchouses and
the extra work that police had to do in watch houses.
And you know, we were talking, you know, hundreds, one
hundred and sixty hundred and fifty people in watchouses. And today,
you know, I think is a really good example. We're
(04:47):
twelve in watchouses today. I think yesterday we were nine
in watchouses, you know, and that's a significant amount of
investment from the government, a significated amount investment from our staff,
and you know, in a significant amount investm from the
community to start to drive our system into the right direction.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So talk us through those numbers in the watch houses.
I know you just touched on it, but did you
say twelve twelve?
Speaker 4 (05:08):
So six in Catherine, three in Alice Springs and three
in Palmerston. And those numbers fluctuate based on the activity
of police. And historically, if we're moving back to where
we would see a normal trend, we would expect to
see an uplift of about eighty prisoners over the.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Christmas New Year's period and we're ready for that.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
We've got two hundred beds empty ready to go. We've
got you know, we brought on a significant amount of
beds in this process. So from November last year we
brought on seven hundred and forty six beds already, So
that's six hundred and fifty brand new beds out at Berrima,
it's ninety six brand new beds in Alice Springs. We've
got the continuation of our master infrastructure plan to bring
(05:47):
on more beds and we'll see Berrama go up into
that eight twenty mark early next year. We'll see the
women's infrastructure start to come online. So you know, some
of the infrastructure we've got built Sector eleven will come
online and that's not in those numbers, So that's next
to eighty eight beds we've got out there being worked.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
On, yep.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
And then the Alice Springs youth conversion to the women's
which is you know, it's taking its time, but we've
got to get that right. You know, eventually we'll have
ninety five women outside of the infrastructure up there as well,
you know, in that first quarter of next year.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
So how big the difference does that make, you know,
bringing all of those additional beds online so that you
can actually facilitate the increased number of prisoners. How big
a difference does that there make in terms of managing
those increased numbers and also you know, trying to still
make sure you're delivering programs so that when they leave
prison they're better humans.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Not better crims.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
I think that's a really important point, Katie, And I
think you know, it's easy to go, oh, well, you know,
there's more beds than there is prisoners, But we're working
through a process of maintaining our infrastructure. We're working through
a process of removing surge capacity. So we've got people
in locations where we normally wouldn't hold people that we're
still working through moving out.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Of that space.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Okay, and that's all the important work we do to
balance our system, which reduces risk and then opens up
our capacity to deliver more services. But inside that, you know,
we've been recruiting heavily in our rehab and reintegration space.
We've been recruiting in our education and employment space. You know,
we've increased the amount of education services that we've done
(07:18):
on previous years. We've increased the amount of people participating
in programs. In particular, over the last few months, we're
starting to see jumps in that in those services.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
I mean, as a deputy commissioner, are you are you
sort of satisfied with the programs and things that are
running now? Do you feel as though there is enough
for those that are in our correctional facilities.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
I think twenty twenty six is our year to come
back to you, Kadi and say we've made a big
jump forward. We're continually moving in the right direction, and
we've come out of multiple years of significant challenge. And
it takes time to do that because you know, as
you guys know, as your listeners know, it's not an
easy place to recruit to in the territory so we've
got a significant amount of recruitment coming. We've been recruiting
(08:01):
hard and we're going to continue to recruit hard across
our system. But in those first phases of risk, you
focus on your front end, You focus on your frontline
services and community safety, and the second phase, which we're
significantly and now, is really looking at those enabling services
and that's where we'll start to see the changes in
rehab and reintegration.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Now, in terms of the additional G four S officers,
I know that there's some more set to commence this month,
that's according to the government yesterday. How are things tracking
with G four EAS and in terms of you know,
taking away I guess some of the load on our
correctional staff.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Yeah, so our plan around you know, embedding some support
from G four S into our system is really coming together.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
So you know, our court services are.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Here in the territ in Darwin really going really well,
and you know, you want to find your feet and.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
You want to manage those risks.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
You're bringing on services like this for the first time
we've done that and G for us have done that well.
They've just finished a significant recruitment program here and they're
employing locals YEP to fuell gaps in their services to
open up the Darwin Transitional Center, which is the old
police watchouse. So they were looking at that starting up
in mid December early December. That'll be a huge piece
(09:13):
for us because that'll enable prisoners to get to courts.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
And so that'll be here in our cbdep.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
So we currently house fifty prisoners in there, and what
we're going to be doing is converting that to a
model that enables better transition through courts, so people are
getting access to court faster and they get their remand
services and then they can push out to us back
into the prison when they get sentenced.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah. Right, So a bit more of a remand center
rather than sort of keeping them there for.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Very short term.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Very court enabling is the focus h and it's very
similar to what we're doing in Alice Springs. So the
first step in Alice Springs is to step into the
court services and that'll be up and running early December,
and then we'll start to see what the impacts of
that and we'll grow that out with a goal to
be actually supporting hospital escorre as well.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
At some stage it.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Sounds like it's going to be another busy year for
you guys, but it's been a massive year, you'd have
to say, four corrections in the Northern Territory with those
prisoner numbers really going right up and having to do
a lot of work to accommodate those additional prisoners. Deputy
Commissioner four Custodial Operations, Kim McKay, it's always good to
catch up with you.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
I really appreciate your time this morning.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Thanks Katie.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
We're really proud of the work that our staff do
and thank you for your support through the year.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Thank you
Now we know it's been a big year for corrections,
(00:02):
with record prisoner numbers and plenty of work undertaken in
an effort to bring additional space online, additional beds online. Now,
the government also yesterday announced that they'd be strengthening frontline
corrections capability further, with forty three local G four S
officers commencing this month. Now, with the addition of the
new G four S officers, the government's workforce will they
(00:25):
say it's going to stand, the Northern Territory Workforce, I
should say, is going to stand sixty eight employees across
the territory. Now joining us in the studio to give
us a bit of an update after what has been
quite a big year for corrections. The Deputy Commissioner for
Custodial Operations Kim McKay, Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
To you, Good morning, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah, great to have you in the studio.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Now, tell me before we get into an update on
those prisoner numbers, how are things going in terms of
prisoners being involved in the cyclone cleanup?
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Yeah, Look, you know we're actively engaged in that space
and I think one of the things that you'll list
and its probably forgets or doesn't know is our staff
were hunkered down during the cyclone and we're one of
those twenty four to seven services that you know, our
staff are committed to maintaining community safety, you know, rain,
hail or shine. But after the cyclone, you know, our
work continues and at the moment, we've got thirty six
(01:17):
of our work party team members out there, so that's
five or six work crews out every day helping out.
And the guys went out and helped set up Marara
and the cool Linger Recovery centers to get started. And
then over the last few days, you know, they've moved
about five tons of waste from different houses and they've
even been dropping in on some of the you know,
the survivors for cyclone, Tracy, some of our regulars and
(01:40):
just making sure they're all right, because the boys want
to make sure that, you know, everyone who might be
traumatized by that event has some support. And they've also
been doing about five or six a day like emergency
call out, so some of our regulars will ring up
and say, look, I really need some extra help right now,
and as we can, we're sending out teams to help
those those people in need.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I reckon.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
That's an excellent thing to do, I think, you know,
to me, it seems like a fantastic thing to do
in terms of you know that rehabilitation and being part
of the community and you know, helping.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Others after you've gotten.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yourself maybe into a you know, into a situation where
you've wound up in a correctional facility. But being out
there and able to be a constructive part of the community.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, I think it is really important.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
I think the idea of being a member of the
community and being an active member of the community is
really important. But the other piece is the work the
guys do with the pensioners. So we know that the
elderly sometimes is frightened of crime. So to get a
different aspect from the men and see them in a
different line and get some help from them, I think
is a really important community partnership.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Hey, can you touch on this a moment ago.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Obviously all of your staff, all the prisoners hunkered down
throughout the cyclone. How did things go at our top
being correctional facilities.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Yeah, all of our infrastructure held up and it was
really a good test for us to be back into
the old Berama side and you know, all of our
security systems held up, our infrastructure, held up, all of
our additions in their held water tight, which was really good.
And you know, we shuffled our people around as we
do during cyclone, and we got it back the next day,
back into normal operations as quickly as we could. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Hey, in terms of you know, of our correctional facilities,
how full of the prisons at the moment, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Look at you know, we're still in that in that
growth period, but it's a stable period. So you know,
this time last year we were talking about two hundred
and ninety seven prisoners and today we're sitting at you know,
twenty eight hundred and twelve, and that fluctuates twenty or
thirty every day, but overall, that's in twelve months an
increase of five hundred and thirty four. And you know,
(03:46):
I think early in the year we were talking crisis.
I think we've got through it, you know, and we've
got it through it because the connected system has pulled
together and the improvements that.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
The system has made.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
You know, it's not just about on more beds, it's
about the rest of the services and systems that go
around that to keep people out and stop them from
coming back.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
They're massive numbers.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
So I mean, when you look at that growth over
a twelve month period, it is a huge amount of
additional prisoners for correctional staff to be dealing with. You know,
talk us through how you've really managed to, you know,
to deal with those numbers. So I know, there's been
quite a bit of work that's happened within corrections over
the last twelve months.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
I think when we were talking, you know, in March
right through to the middle of the year, we were
talking about a system in crisis, and I think that
was our theme, and you know, and that included the
work that our staff had to do in watchouses and
the extra work that police had to do in watch houses.
And you know, we were talking, you know, hundreds, one
hundred and sixty hundred and fifty people in watchouses. And today,
you know, I think is a really good example. We're
(04:47):
twelve in watchouses today. I think yesterday we were nine
in watchouses, you know, and that's a significant amount of
investment from the government, a significated amount investment from our staff,
and you know, in a significant amount investm from the
community to start to drive our system into the right direction.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So talk us through those numbers in the watch houses.
I know you just touched on it, but did you
say twelve twelve?
Speaker 4 (05:08):
So six in Catherine, three in Alice Springs and three
in Palmerston. And those numbers fluctuate based on the activity
of police. And historically, if we're moving back to where
we would see a normal trend, we would expect to
see an uplift of about eighty prisoners over the.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Christmas New Year's period and we're ready for that.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
We've got two hundred beds empty ready to go. We've
got you know, we brought on a significant amount of
beds in this process. So from November last year we
brought on seven hundred and forty six beds already, So
that's six hundred and fifty brand new beds out at Berrima,
it's ninety six brand new beds in Alice Springs. We've
got the continuation of our master infrastructure plan to bring
(05:47):
on more beds and we'll see Berrama go up into
that eight twenty mark early next year. We'll see the
women's infrastructure start to come online. So you know, some
of the infrastructure we've got built Sector eleven will come
online and that's not in those numbers, So that's next
to eighty eight beds we've got out there being worked.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
On, yep.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
And then the Alice Springs youth conversion to the women's
which is you know, it's taking its time, but we've
got to get that right. You know, eventually we'll have
ninety five women outside of the infrastructure up there as well,
you know, in that first quarter of next year.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
So how big the difference does that make, you know,
bringing all of those additional beds online so that you
can actually facilitate the increased number of prisoners. How big
a difference does that there make in terms of managing
those increased numbers and also you know, trying to still
make sure you're delivering programs so that when they leave
prison they're better humans.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Not better crims.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
I think that's a really important point, Katie, And I
think you know, it's easy to go, oh, well, you know,
there's more beds than there is prisoners, But we're working
through a process of maintaining our infrastructure. We're working through
a process of removing surge capacity. So we've got people
in locations where we normally wouldn't hold people that we're
still working through moving out.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Of that space.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Okay, and that's all the important work we do to
balance our system, which reduces risk and then opens up
our capacity to deliver more services. But inside that, you know,
we've been recruiting heavily in our rehab and reintegration space.
We've been recruiting in our education and employment space. You know,
we've increased the amount of education services that we've done
(07:18):
on previous years. We've increased the amount of people participating
in programs. In particular, over the last few months, we're
starting to see jumps in that in those services.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
I mean, as a deputy commissioner, are you are you
sort of satisfied with the programs and things that are
running now? Do you feel as though there is enough
for those that are in our correctional facilities.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
I think twenty twenty six is our year to come
back to you, Kadi and say we've made a big
jump forward. We're continually moving in the right direction, and
we've come out of multiple years of significant challenge. And
it takes time to do that because you know, as
you guys know, as your listeners know, it's not an
easy place to recruit to in the territory so we've
got a significant amount of recruitment coming. We've been recruiting
(08:01):
hard and we're going to continue to recruit hard across
our system. But in those first phases of risk, you
focus on your front end, You focus on your frontline
services and community safety, and the second phase, which we're
significantly and now, is really looking at those enabling services
and that's where we'll start to see the changes in
rehab and reintegration.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Now, in terms of the additional G four S officers,
I know that there's some more set to commence this month,
that's according to the government yesterday. How are things tracking
with G four EAS and in terms of you know,
taking away I guess some of the load on our
correctional staff.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Yeah, so our plan around you know, embedding some support
from G four S into our system is really coming together.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
So you know, our court services are.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Here in the territ in Darwin really going really well,
and you know, you want to find your feet and.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
You want to manage those risks.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
You're bringing on services like this for the first time
we've done that and G for us have done that well.
They've just finished a significant recruitment program here and they're
employing locals YEP to fuell gaps in their services to
open up the Darwin Transitional Center, which is the old
police watchouse. So they were looking at that starting up
in mid December early December. That'll be a huge piece
(09:13):
for us because that'll enable prisoners to get to courts.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
And so that'll be here in our cbdep.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
So we currently house fifty prisoners in there, and what
we're going to be doing is converting that to a
model that enables better transition through courts, so people are
getting access to court faster and they get their remand
services and then they can push out to us back
into the prison when they get sentenced.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah. Right, So a bit more of a remand center
rather than sort of keeping them there for.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Very short term.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Very court enabling is the focus h and it's very
similar to what we're doing in Alice Springs. So the
first step in Alice Springs is to step into the
court services and that'll be up and running early December,
and then we'll start to see what the impacts of
that and we'll grow that out with a goal to
be actually supporting hospital escorre as well.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
At some stage it.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Sounds like it's going to be another busy year for
you guys, but it's been a massive year, you'd have
to say, four corrections in the Northern Territory with those
prisoner numbers really going right up and having to do
a lot of work to accommodate those additional prisoners. Deputy
Commissioner four Custodial Operations, Kim McKay, it's always good to
catch up with you.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
I really appreciate your time this morning.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Thanks Katie.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
We're really proud of the work that our staff do
and thank you for your support through the year.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Thank you
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