July 7, 2026 • 10 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm pleased to say joining us on the line. We're
wondering if she was having some issues with her phone.
It is Kesier Puric. Good morning to youa Kesier.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Morning, Katie. Yes, I was having issues. I had the
old SOS on my phone for a while. But since
you've cleared now so.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Detail I know. Well, luckily we got inside. Hey Kesy,
We've been talking a lot this week about the member
for your Arafura after he held this press conference was
aimed at really clearing the air, but unfortunately it sort
of did anything. But and you've been the you were
clearly the former speaker of the Northern Territories legis Litive Assembly.
(00:37):
You also, as I understand, are on that renuneration tribunal.
So I understand there might be some things that you
can't sort of go into correct but I do want
to ask. I mean, have there been a few occasions
where members have landed in hot water over the years
over vehicle use and fines and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Well, well, no one's been fine. I mean members have entitlements.
I mean I get a bit cranky, a bit annoyed
with people who think members of Parliament should work for nothing.
Get nothing paid for everything themselves, you know, and that's
just not the case. Yes, it's a good remuneration package
that members of parliament get here in the church as
well as elsewhere, because it's a particular and a difficult
(01:18):
type of job at times. Other times it's a really
good job. So that's the first thing. The second thing
is members of parliament also bloody taxpayers too. You know.
I hear people say, oh, you know, tax dollars are
paying this. Well, I paid a lot of tax in
my time during them when I was a member of parliament,
you know, So let's be clear about that. We're not
in this little well. Politicians aren't in this little isolation
chamber and get everything and do nothing. The other thing, Katie,
(01:41):
is when you're a member of Parliament and you get
an allowance like you can have a fully maintained car
or you can take the car allowance, Now that's just
not a free gift. If you do not ecquit that
allowance with the taxman, you are taxed on it. And
that's what happened in my situation because I couldn't expend
all the money of the allowance, or I couldn't expend
(02:04):
or account for all my elect allowance with receipts, so
it just gets added to your tax, So to say
it's a tax free gift is not correct, whatever the
allowance may be. And I think also there is a
bit of misunderset, including by members themselves, of how their
entitlements work, what they're entitled to, what the entitlements say
(02:25):
you can and can't have, and quite honestly, if it's
not in the entitlement description, you're not entitled to it.
Now in this case with Manuel Brown, the member for
a refewre and there's lots of other members who have
dwellings in Darwen and also received the four hundred or
so dollars. I mean, I understand Joe Hersey was being
talked about on ABC radio. I know Robin Lamley has
(02:48):
a unit in Darwin and they come up to darn
for sittings and other parliamentary business and are receiving this
allowance as well.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
I guess do we know if they're claiming that money?
Speaker 2 (03:02):
No, No, I wouldn't know. You'd have to check with
a speaker on that because that would be done through
the Assembly. All the Tribunal does is review members in
titlance on an annual basis. So I'm saying that anyone
out there, if they feel that they've got something to contribute,
or they don't like what members of Parliament greed, or
they think they should be different, put in a submission.
(03:23):
We put ads in the paper, We put things out
there to let people know the reviews on. If you
want to have your two Bobsworth, go for it.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I mean that is the situation here as well, isn't
it that if if the government chooses to or that
you know, if somebody I don't know, if a member
of Parliament chooses to that we can sort of we
could see a review of those entitlements, but that would
need to be something that was put to the tribunal.
You guys can't.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yes, yes, I mean I heard it on ABC. They said, oh,
you know, I think the tribunal should do this, that
and everything else. Well, put it in a bloody submission,
don't talk about and expect it mysteriously magically to just
be taken up. But you know, the document is there
for the public to look at. Contact that leads to
the Assembly. It's on the website. You know, the salaries,
(04:12):
the percentage to get extra if you're an office holder,
like a beaker or a minister or the government whip,
opposition whatever how much is for travel, he has the
thing Crecadian people will fully aware. Accommodation up here is
not cheap. You know. So if you've got members of
parliament coming from our springs or wherever and having to
stay at our hotels, you know peak tourists, and you know,
(04:35):
they bump them up to three four five hundred dollars
a night, the same as if they have to travel
into state full parliamentary business to attend conferences or other parliaments.
Accommodation in those big capital cities is also not cheap
by what we call cheap standards. They're five six hundred
dollars a night. So Emmanuel Brown has to tread where
his home base is, which is Jabaru. And so if
(04:56):
he's traveling to dar and the Tribune or the Parliament
has no sale where a person and stays, they stay
wherever they choose to stay in a drag, a tent
or in a hotel.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
With that four hundred and fifty dollars, does that cover
accommodation or does that gate? So it's the accommodation that
that covers, and any incidentals.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
And incidentals like your meals like so much is allocated
for lunch, breakfast, dinner and incidental So you know that
paid through the legist of Assembly to the member they
either put a tam in before or after their travel
for whatever reason. But the other thing too, Katie, is
members of Parliament, particularly those in a political party, are
(05:35):
allocated so many trips internally per year for parliamentary business
associated with their party, if that makes sense. So they
come up for parliament, you know how many days a year.
Then they might have a caucus meeting in Tenant Creek,
Catin or wing meetings at colp in various locations, you know,
to get around the territory. They are allocated so many
(05:56):
of those trips per year the parties, and that also
attracts trouble allowed. So it's not just coming in for parliament.
There's a whole, right, There's a whole and it's in
the tribunal document from members anyone to listen and get
a copy of. And those in times are then administered
by the speaker, you know, the tribunal sets them and
views them. It gets tabled in Parliament, it can be
(06:18):
talked about or debated if members choose to, but generally
they don't, and then it's up to the Speaker's office
and they send me to to what's the word put
those intilts into place? Kisia?
Speaker 1 (06:30):
What's the process? And you sort of touched on this earlier,
but what's the process then if those entitlements were to change,
So does somebody have to put in a formal sort.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Of request heading in change you.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Say, you know, like say, obviously there's a lot of
discussion at the moment where people are saying, oh, it
doesn't you know, it doesn't necessarily pass the pub test
some elements of it. Right, So if then the government
said okay, or does it need to be the government
that then says okay, we're going to do We're going
to ask the renewal Tribunal to do a review or
does the renuneration Tribunal have to determine whether the review
(07:06):
would be done?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Who's well? As I said, every year, the intitance of
members are reviewed. We are instructed by the administrator to
review members in Titlan's the Tribune, and also reviews local
court judges in tilments and also local council. So it's
not just members of Parliament alone, and there's possibly some
other things that the tribuneal is going to be asked
(07:27):
to do. I understand. So it would be the party
like the CLP may put in a review, the Chief
Minister may request something. But it's not just it's there's
a legislative basis to this. These entitements come under a
piece of legislation. So and I understand that in legislation
is called the amsor act association members in toilaments, et cetera.
(07:50):
Whatever that is under review at the moment. As normal,
legislation gets reviewed from time to time to ensure that
it's up to pace and contemporary. So if there's an issue,
then someone brings it to the Tribune or the Tribe
doesn't ask for it, and then we look as if
it's within our powers. So the Tribune has certain powers
(08:12):
and it has certain things that we can't do or
it can't do. So if members or you know, a
particular agency or someone wants to review something, then put
pen to paper and then it will be explained to
them how they can go about that.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Teazer, I know people are questioning this morning. You know,
if it passes the pub test, the fact that a
Polly can claim that money to stay in a place
that they own.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Well, I mean that's probably a philosophical argument that member
is entitled to claim that, as are all the out
of town members or when members travel, they're entitled to
claim that. We're not a police officer. The Assembly is
not really a police officer. You know. It's up to
individuals to ensure that they stick within the guidelines of
whatever they're entitled to. How they spend it is their business, well, yes, anything.
(09:00):
You know, if you take a fully maintained car as
part of your entitlement, then it's beholded upon you to
you know, drive it safely, look after it, don't trash it,
as has happened in the past, you know, because if
you misuse or abuse your entitlements, then you do stand
to lose those entitlements. Some some entitlements A car is
(09:21):
a classic example, and when I was a speaker, we
did take a car away from a member right because
it was being abused and the fuel car that was
being abused. I was a previous member for our refuera.
So the speaker has certain powers to do certain things,
but generally, I mean it's a very very unusual thing
when a member misbuses something like a car. I mean,
(09:43):
it's just that was an extraordinary situation anyway in the past,
and most members are pretty good when it comes to,
you know, receiving things as part of their entitlements or
part of their job, like looking after your electoral office.
Make sure you don't use your electoral office for purely
political purposes. Your elected office there for the benefit of
the community, not you, not you politically well.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Kesier Puric, I always appreciate your insight and always appreciate
that bit of background. So thank you for having a
chat with us.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
As any questions people, I'm happy to help, you know,
if they want to send me a private message or
a note if they've got a specific question within you know,
as past speaker, or try and help best I can.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Well, Kesier, we appreciate.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
It or a better understanding.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah, that's which I think is important for people to,
you know, to get a bit of that background. I'm
sure we'll get plenty of messages easier.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Thank you will all right, Okay, thanks place, talk soon.
I'm pleased to say joining us on the line. We're
wondering if she was having some issues with her phone.
It is Kesier Puric. Good morning to youa Kesier.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Morning, Katie. Yes, I was having issues. I had the
old SOS on my phone for a while. But since
you've cleared now so.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Detail I know. Well, luckily we got inside. Hey Kesy,
We've been talking a lot this week about the member
for your Arafura after he held this press conference was
aimed at really clearing the air, but unfortunately it sort
of did anything. But and you've been the you were
clearly the former speaker of the Northern Territories legis Litive Assembly.
(00:37):
You also, as I understand, are on that renuneration tribunal.
So I understand there might be some things that you
can't sort of go into correct but I do want
to ask. I mean, have there been a few occasions
where members have landed in hot water over the years
over vehicle use and fines and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Well, well, no one's been fine. I mean members have entitlements.
I mean I get a bit cranky, a bit annoyed
with people who think members of Parliament should work for nothing.
Get nothing paid for everything themselves, you know, and that's
just not the case. Yes, it's a good remuneration package
that members of parliament get here in the church as
well as elsewhere, because it's a particular and a difficult
(01:18):
type of job at times. Other times it's a really
good job. So that's the first thing. The second thing
is members of parliament also bloody taxpayers too. You know.
I hear people say, oh, you know, tax dollars are
paying this. Well, I paid a lot of tax in
my time during them when I was a member of parliament,
you know, So let's be clear about that. We're not
in this little well. Politicians aren't in this little isolation
chamber and get everything and do nothing. The other thing, Katie,
(01:41):
is when you're a member of Parliament and you get
an allowance like you can have a fully maintained car
or you can take the car allowance, Now that's just
not a free gift. If you do not ecquit that
allowance with the taxman, you are taxed on it. And
that's what happened in my situation because I couldn't expend
all the money of the allowance, or I couldn't expend
(02:04):
or account for all my elect allowance with receipts, so
it just gets added to your tax, So to say
it's a tax free gift is not correct, whatever the
allowance may be. And I think also there is a
bit of misunderset, including by members themselves, of how their
entitlements work, what they're entitled to, what the entitlements say
(02:25):
you can and can't have, and quite honestly, if it's
not in the entitlement description, you're not entitled to it.
Now in this case with Manuel Brown, the member for
a refewre and there's lots of other members who have
dwellings in Darwen and also received the four hundred or
so dollars. I mean, I understand Joe Hersey was being
talked about on ABC radio. I know Robin Lamley has
(02:48):
a unit in Darwin and they come up to darn
for sittings and other parliamentary business and are receiving this
allowance as well.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
I guess do we know if they're claiming that money?
Speaker 2 (03:02):
No, No, I wouldn't know. You'd have to check with
a speaker on that because that would be done through
the Assembly. All the Tribunal does is review members in
titlance on an annual basis. So I'm saying that anyone
out there, if they feel that they've got something to contribute,
or they don't like what members of Parliament greed, or
they think they should be different, put in a submission.
(03:23):
We put ads in the paper, We put things out
there to let people know the reviews on. If you
want to have your two Bobsworth, go for it.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I mean that is the situation here as well, isn't
it that if if the government chooses to or that
you know, if somebody I don't know, if a member
of Parliament chooses to that we can sort of we
could see a review of those entitlements, but that would
need to be something that was put to the tribunal.
You guys can't.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yes, yes, I mean I heard it on ABC. They said, oh,
you know, I think the tribunal should do this, that
and everything else. Well, put it in a bloody submission,
don't talk about and expect it mysteriously magically to just
be taken up. But you know, the document is there
for the public to look at. Contact that leads to
the Assembly. It's on the website. You know, the salaries,
(04:12):
the percentage to get extra if you're an office holder,
like a beaker or a minister or the government whip,
opposition whatever how much is for travel, he has the
thing Crecadian people will fully aware. Accommodation up here is
not cheap. You know. So if you've got members of
parliament coming from our springs or wherever and having to
stay at our hotels, you know peak tourists, and you know,
(04:35):
they bump them up to three four five hundred dollars
a night, the same as if they have to travel
into state full parliamentary business to attend conferences or other parliaments.
Accommodation in those big capital cities is also not cheap
by what we call cheap standards. They're five six hundred
dollars a night. So Emmanuel Brown has to tread where
his home base is, which is Jabaru. And so if
(04:56):
he's traveling to dar and the Tribune or the Parliament
has no sale where a person and stays, they stay
wherever they choose to stay in a drag, a tent
or in a hotel.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
With that four hundred and fifty dollars, does that cover
accommodation or does that gate? So it's the accommodation that
that covers, and any incidentals.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
And incidentals like your meals like so much is allocated
for lunch, breakfast, dinner and incidental So you know that
paid through the legist of Assembly to the member they
either put a tam in before or after their travel
for whatever reason. But the other thing too, Katie, is
members of Parliament, particularly those in a political party, are
(05:35):
allocated so many trips internally per year for parliamentary business
associated with their party, if that makes sense. So they
come up for parliament, you know how many days a year.
Then they might have a caucus meeting in Tenant Creek,
Catin or wing meetings at colp in various locations, you know,
to get around the territory. They are allocated so many
(05:56):
of those trips per year the parties, and that also
attracts trouble allowed. So it's not just coming in for parliament.
There's a whole, right, There's a whole and it's in
the tribunal document from members anyone to listen and get
a copy of. And those in times are then administered
by the speaker, you know, the tribunal sets them and
views them. It gets tabled in Parliament, it can be
(06:18):
talked about or debated if members choose to, but generally
they don't, and then it's up to the Speaker's office
and they send me to to what's the word put
those intilts into place? Kisia?
Speaker 1 (06:30):
What's the process? And you sort of touched on this earlier,
but what's the process then if those entitlements were to change,
So does somebody have to put in a formal sort.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Of request heading in change you.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Say, you know, like say, obviously there's a lot of
discussion at the moment where people are saying, oh, it
doesn't you know, it doesn't necessarily pass the pub test
some elements of it. Right, So if then the government
said okay, or does it need to be the government
that then says okay, we're going to do We're going
to ask the renewal Tribunal to do a review or
does the renuneration Tribunal have to determine whether the review
(07:06):
would be done?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Who's well? As I said, every year, the intitance of
members are reviewed. We are instructed by the administrator to
review members in Titlan's the Tribune, and also reviews local
court judges in tilments and also local council. So it's
not just members of Parliament alone, and there's possibly some
other things that the tribuneal is going to be asked
(07:27):
to do. I understand. So it would be the party
like the CLP may put in a review, the Chief
Minister may request something. But it's not just it's there's
a legislative basis to this. These entitements come under a
piece of legislation. So and I understand that in legislation
is called the amsor act association members in toilaments, et cetera.
(07:50):
Whatever that is under review at the moment. As normal,
legislation gets reviewed from time to time to ensure that
it's up to pace and contemporary. So if there's an issue,
then someone brings it to the Tribune or the Tribe
doesn't ask for it, and then we look as if
it's within our powers. So the Tribune has certain powers
(08:12):
and it has certain things that we can't do or
it can't do. So if members or you know, a
particular agency or someone wants to review something, then put
pen to paper and then it will be explained to
them how they can go about that.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Teazer, I know people are questioning this morning. You know,
if it passes the pub test, the fact that a
Polly can claim that money to stay in a place
that they own.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Well, I mean that's probably a philosophical argument that member
is entitled to claim that, as are all the out
of town members or when members travel, they're entitled to
claim that. We're not a police officer. The Assembly is
not really a police officer. You know. It's up to
individuals to ensure that they stick within the guidelines of
whatever they're entitled to. How they spend it is their business, well, yes, anything.
(09:00):
You know, if you take a fully maintained car as
part of your entitlement, then it's beholded upon you to
you know, drive it safely, look after it, don't trash it,
as has happened in the past, you know, because if
you misuse or abuse your entitlements, then you do stand
to lose those entitlements. Some some entitlements A car is
(09:21):
a classic example, and when I was a speaker, we
did take a car away from a member right because
it was being abused and the fuel car that was
being abused. I was a previous member for our refuera.
So the speaker has certain powers to do certain things,
but generally, I mean it's a very very unusual thing
when a member misbuses something like a car. I mean,
(09:43):
it's just that was an extraordinary situation anyway in the past,
and most members are pretty good when it comes to,
you know, receiving things as part of their entitlements or
part of their job, like looking after your electoral office.
Make sure you don't use your electoral office for purely
political purposes. Your elected office there for the benefit of
the community, not you, not you politically well.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Kesier Puric, I always appreciate your insight and always appreciate
that bit of background. So thank you for having a
chat with us.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
As any questions people, I'm happy to help, you know,
if they want to send me a private message or
a note if they've got a specific question within you know,
as past speaker, or try and help best I can.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Well, Kesier, we appreciate.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
It or a better understanding.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah, that's which I think is important for people to,
you know, to get a bit of that background. I'm
sure we'll get plenty of messages easier.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Thank you will all right, Okay, thanks place, talk soon.
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