August 5, 2026 • 9 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Northern Territory governments made no secret its desire to attract
data centers here, but that may have hit a snag
after the Federal Energy Minister, Chris Bowen yesterday confirmed plans
Commonwealth legislation will force new AI data centers to be
powered by renewable energy and banning those fueled by gas.
(00:20):
It comes after the colp and backed plans for a
hyperscale facility at Woodell powered by Bterloo gas, but mister
Bowen said if centers are powered solely by gas, then
they will not meet minimum standards and will not be
able to proceed. Now joining us on the line is
the National Secretary of the Electrical Trades Union, Michael Wright.
(00:42):
Good morning to you, Michael.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
You're good, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yeah, good to have you on the show. Michael. What's
been the etu's reaction to the Minister's plans for data centers.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Look, we were very supportive of what the Minister's saying.
The data center build is really important for our members.
As of today, we have ten percent of our membership
employed building data centers, and that's up from roughly zero
percent a couple of years ago, so that we are
worried about the stress they're putting on the group, and
(01:13):
also we're worried about the workforce shortage that we've got.
So you know, it is a really important step that
the cris Boone announced.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I guess more solar I would assume needs more work
for Sparky's but up here, the Northern Territory has already
got a significant take up of rooftop solar and our
issue has been the stability of our greed. I mean,
wouldn't that push the problem a bit further for us?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
No, well, it's the good. Stability in Northern Territory has
been an issue for a little while now it is
something that we take seriously. I think the other part
of the minister bone announced around the expanding the and
this is the problem with energy policy, you turn into
acronyms as soon as you start talking about it. But
the SRAS so you can go up to the your bunnings,
(02:01):
your industrial parks, and that can start putting rooftops a
or on unlocks even more generation for us. And the
battery roll out that we see is providing a hell
of a lot more stability. I mean half a million
or so or thereabout new bat new household batteries is
it's been a bit of work, but it's having a
good impact on the grid.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Look, I guess we kind of look at it as
well here in the Northern Territory from a bit of
a different perspective in some ways, in terms of, you know,
we've got the gas, we've got the bee Loo, we're
able to you know, to help other states as well
with the abundance of gas that we've got. And I
certainly understand, you know, the concerns when it comes to
the environment, but I suppose for us we're thinking, well,
(02:42):
why can't we use our gas for data centers here
in the Northern Territory If that's the path that we're
going to go down.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Look, I love the top end, and you've also got
a fair bit of sunshine. It's I think when it
comes to renewables, like, yeah, the climate issue is obviously important,
but also Australia has got a part start playing to
what it's competitive advantages, Like we're we're in an ugly
old world and we have the best renewable resources anywhere
on God's green oath. So if we're not leaning into this,
(03:12):
ultimately we're going to lose Michael, do.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
You reckon like a hybrid mix could work? Could we
have a bit of both?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Look the problem like, there's obviously a place for gas.
Gas is used right now, we've got members working on it.
But it is also the most expensive form of electricity going.
That's just the simple truth. And our concern is always
going to be baking in high cost when there's a
low cost alternative. I'm not going to say that any
of this is easy. If it was easier, that'd already
(03:41):
be done. But that's that's the concern with gas.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
So tell me, is the Electrical Trade Union seeking that
you know? Like, are you seeking that it's one hundred
percent green powered for any data centers? Like or could
you know? Like what do you want? I suppose for
us here in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Number one thing that we want on, particularly when it
comes to the data centers we want Apprentice's I found
out this morning that there's one data center get them
built in Sydney that's going to take two and a
half thousand sparkies. You compared that to Impacts. We topped
out on the Impacts build at fourteen hundred electricians.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
And so is that because of like is that because
of the solar element you reckon, Michael, or what's the like,
why is that?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Why do we So we've had a temporary shortage of
electricians since nineteen eighty one, so it's not a new problem,
but it's blowing out because yeah, it's the solar build,
it's wind, it's battery, but it's also everyone. You know,
you see the rise of electric vehicles, the data center build,
like it blows the mind. We're trying to get over
the next eighteen months, we're trying to get an extra
(04:44):
five and a half dousand electricians just into Victoria. It's
insane and it's and we need to start treating workforce,
start treating skills as you know, a serious national issue.
Now when we see you know, when we are when
our employees put up ads for hiring an apprentice, the
ratio is up to six hundred applicants per apprenticeship. So
(05:07):
there's no shortage of people wanted to come in, but
we need to have better and more pathways for them
to actually come in, for young workers, for reskilling Australians
to come and get a come and get a start
on our trades.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, hey, Michael, tell me I guess, for argument's sake,
given the Northern territory isn't connected to the national greed,
should there be some allowances made for the extra use
of gas to power businesses, given that solar has destabilized
the greed in the past.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah, Look, the good stability or like I say, is
a member of the powers power and order have been
working or hard on good stability for you know, as
long as I've been in this game. It's the problem
of the concern, right, is that the more you rely
on gas, the more you're baking the long term higher
(05:52):
power prices. Like that's just that's just a concern. Like
there's already you know, territorians already pay more than they
should for you know, basic goods and services relying on gas.
You know, I was doing a radio interview yesterday and
live the host went and checked her app and found
out that the solar on her power prices at that
(06:14):
stage were minus three cents What should get paid to
turn on a dishwasher? Like this is a weird world
that we're entering into where we've got this abundance of electricity.
The more we rely on gas, the more we're not
future prison.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, and look I know, as I say, I know
it's a hard one. So I know that you know,
I can certainly understand the environmental concerns that people have got,
and I get it that you know that solar is
a great path for us to go down. I suppose
what I can see though, and what I've certainly spoken
about quite a bit in the end is is you
know that the abundance of gas that we've got to
(06:49):
and the way that we might be able to utilize
both the.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Look, it's not for me to make decisions for the territory.
That's her territory. But the concern is going to be priced.
I mean, you guys already pay over the odds compared
to the East Coast or even wa It's gas is
just always going to be more more expensive than sunshine
because once you're over that initial capital costs, the sunshine's free,
(07:16):
the wind's free. I'm not trying to say this is easy,
but whichever way you go, it's going to be a challenge.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Michael, I mean from the etu's perspective, like, obviously there's
that element of it that you're concerned about it, but
it sounds like the biggest concern is the workforce.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Now we've been three years ago. We found out what
we were told that there is a forecast shopful of
forty two and a half thousand electricians by twenty thirty, right,
so four years time, that's twenty five percent of the trade.
And that's before the data center's kicked offs. We're looking
at having, you know, tens of thousands of workers on
data centers on the build. And then the thing with
(07:54):
these data centers as well, because I know you, is
that they need to be retrofitted on a Sometimes it's
five years, sometimes it's three years because the chips burn out.
So there's all of this more and more work coming
away at the same time as where electrifying driving, rise
of air conditioning, rise of induction crooktop. I mean not
want this to be over. So I stopped sounding like
(08:15):
a Harvey Norman salesman, right, fact, mat, do you know
what I doing?
Speaker 1 (08:20):
You know what I'm hearing in my head. I'm thinking, shit,
I need my son to sign up to do a trade,
to be a.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Sparky one hundred percent welcome a book.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
That's what I'm hearing. I'm thinking, goodness, But it sounds
like there's a lot of work if you want to
be an electrician. But I you know, I totally understand
what you're saying as well, and I think it's like,
I think it's a really interesting part of the discussion
to have because obviously the gas and the data centers
is big on the agenda at the moment in the
Northern territory. So I think it is an important discussion
(08:49):
to have.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
One hundred percent, and looking in terms of the workforce,
it's also a good problem. Like I've been in this
game twenty twenty five years, I've dealt with redundancies. Redundancies
are no fun. I'm trying to figure all we're all
trying to figure out how to get more young Australians,
more reskilling Australians into good trades that will see them
out for life.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah. Hey, Michael right, the National Secretary of the Electrical
Trade Union. I appreciate your time this morning and and
sort of you know, bringing a different part of the
discussion to us.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Look, thank you very much for having me
Northern Territory governments made no secret its desire to attract
data centers here, but that may have hit a snag
after the Federal Energy Minister, Chris Bowen yesterday confirmed plans
Commonwealth legislation will force new AI data centers to be
powered by renewable energy and banning those fueled by gas.
(00:20):
It comes after the colp and backed plans for a
hyperscale facility at Woodell powered by Bterloo gas, but mister
Bowen said if centers are powered solely by gas, then
they will not meet minimum standards and will not be
able to proceed. Now joining us on the line is
the National Secretary of the Electrical Trades Union, Michael Wright.
(00:42):
Good morning to you, Michael.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
You're good, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yeah, good to have you on the show. Michael. What's
been the etu's reaction to the Minister's plans for data centers.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Look, we were very supportive of what the Minister's saying.
The data center build is really important for our members.
As of today, we have ten percent of our membership
employed building data centers, and that's up from roughly zero
percent a couple of years ago, so that we are
worried about the stress they're putting on the group, and
(01:13):
also we're worried about the workforce shortage that we've got.
So you know, it is a really important step that
the cris Boone announced.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I guess more solar I would assume needs more work
for Sparky's but up here, the Northern Territory has already
got a significant take up of rooftop solar and our
issue has been the stability of our greed. I mean,
wouldn't that push the problem a bit further for us?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
No, well, it's the good. Stability in Northern Territory has
been an issue for a little while now it is
something that we take seriously. I think the other part
of the minister bone announced around the expanding the and
this is the problem with energy policy, you turn into
acronyms as soon as you start talking about it. But
the SRAS so you can go up to the your bunnings,
(02:01):
your industrial parks, and that can start putting rooftops a
or on unlocks even more generation for us. And the
battery roll out that we see is providing a hell
of a lot more stability. I mean half a million
or so or thereabout new bat new household batteries is
it's been a bit of work, but it's having a
good impact on the grid.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Look, I guess we kind of look at it as
well here in the Northern Territory from a bit of
a different perspective in some ways, in terms of, you know,
we've got the gas, we've got the bee Loo, we're
able to you know, to help other states as well
with the abundance of gas that we've got. And I
certainly understand, you know, the concerns when it comes to
the environment, but I suppose for us we're thinking, well,
(02:42):
why can't we use our gas for data centers here
in the Northern Territory If that's the path that we're
going to go down.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Look, I love the top end, and you've also got
a fair bit of sunshine. It's I think when it
comes to renewables, like, yeah, the climate issue is obviously important,
but also Australia has got a part start playing to
what it's competitive advantages, Like we're we're in an ugly
old world and we have the best renewable resources anywhere
on God's green oath. So if we're not leaning into this,
(03:12):
ultimately we're going to lose Michael, do.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
You reckon like a hybrid mix could work? Could we
have a bit of both?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Look the problem like, there's obviously a place for gas.
Gas is used right now, we've got members working on it.
But it is also the most expensive form of electricity going.
That's just the simple truth. And our concern is always
going to be baking in high cost when there's a
low cost alternative. I'm not going to say that any
of this is easy. If it was easier, that'd already
(03:41):
be done. But that's that's the concern with gas.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
So tell me, is the Electrical Trade Union seeking that
you know? Like, are you seeking that it's one hundred
percent green powered for any data centers? Like or could
you know? Like what do you want? I suppose for
us here in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Number one thing that we want on, particularly when it
comes to the data centers we want Apprentice's I found
out this morning that there's one data center get them
built in Sydney that's going to take two and a
half thousand sparkies. You compared that to Impacts. We topped
out on the Impacts build at fourteen hundred electricians.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
And so is that because of like is that because
of the solar element you reckon, Michael, or what's the like,
why is that?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Why do we So we've had a temporary shortage of
electricians since nineteen eighty one, so it's not a new problem,
but it's blowing out because yeah, it's the solar build,
it's wind, it's battery, but it's also everyone. You know,
you see the rise of electric vehicles, the data center build,
like it blows the mind. We're trying to get over
the next eighteen months, we're trying to get an extra
(04:44):
five and a half dousand electricians just into Victoria. It's
insane and it's and we need to start treating workforce,
start treating skills as you know, a serious national issue.
Now when we see you know, when we are when
our employees put up ads for hiring an apprentice, the
ratio is up to six hundred applicants per apprenticeship. So
(05:07):
there's no shortage of people wanted to come in, but
we need to have better and more pathways for them
to actually come in, for young workers, for reskilling Australians
to come and get a come and get a start
on our trades.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, hey, Michael, tell me I guess, for argument's sake,
given the Northern territory isn't connected to the national greed,
should there be some allowances made for the extra use
of gas to power businesses, given that solar has destabilized
the greed in the past.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah, Look, the good stability or like I say, is
a member of the powers power and order have been
working or hard on good stability for you know, as
long as I've been in this game. It's the problem
of the concern, right, is that the more you rely
on gas, the more you're baking the long term higher
(05:52):
power prices. Like that's just that's just a concern. Like
there's already you know, territorians already pay more than they
should for you know, basic goods and services relying on gas.
You know, I was doing a radio interview yesterday and
live the host went and checked her app and found
out that the solar on her power prices at that
(06:14):
stage were minus three cents What should get paid to
turn on a dishwasher? Like this is a weird world
that we're entering into where we've got this abundance of electricity.
The more we rely on gas, the more we're not
future prison.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, and look I know, as I say, I know
it's a hard one. So I know that you know,
I can certainly understand the environmental concerns that people have got,
and I get it that you know that solar is
a great path for us to go down. I suppose
what I can see though, and what I've certainly spoken
about quite a bit in the end is is you
know that the abundance of gas that we've got to
(06:49):
and the way that we might be able to utilize
both the.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Look, it's not for me to make decisions for the territory.
That's her territory. But the concern is going to be priced.
I mean, you guys already pay over the odds compared
to the East Coast or even wa It's gas is
just always going to be more more expensive than sunshine
because once you're over that initial capital costs, the sunshine's free,
(07:16):
the wind's free. I'm not trying to say this is easy,
but whichever way you go, it's going to be a challenge.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Michael, I mean from the etu's perspective, like, obviously there's
that element of it that you're concerned about it, but
it sounds like the biggest concern is the workforce.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Now we've been three years ago. We found out what
we were told that there is a forecast shopful of
forty two and a half thousand electricians by twenty thirty, right,
so four years time, that's twenty five percent of the trade.
And that's before the data center's kicked offs. We're looking
at having, you know, tens of thousands of workers on
data centers on the build. And then the thing with
(07:54):
these data centers as well, because I know you, is
that they need to be retrofitted on a Sometimes it's
five years, sometimes it's three years because the chips burn out.
So there's all of this more and more work coming
away at the same time as where electrifying driving, rise
of air conditioning, rise of induction crooktop. I mean not
want this to be over. So I stopped sounding like
(08:15):
a Harvey Norman salesman, right, fact, mat, do you know
what I doing?
Speaker 1 (08:20):
You know what I'm hearing in my head. I'm thinking, shit,
I need my son to sign up to do a trade,
to be a.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Sparky one hundred percent welcome a book.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
That's what I'm hearing. I'm thinking, goodness, But it sounds
like there's a lot of work if you want to
be an electrician. But I you know, I totally understand
what you're saying as well, and I think it's like,
I think it's a really interesting part of the discussion
to have because obviously the gas and the data centers
is big on the agenda at the moment in the
Northern territory. So I think it is an important discussion
(08:49):
to have.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
One hundred percent, and looking in terms of the workforce,
it's also a good problem. Like I've been in this
game twenty twenty five years, I've dealt with redundancies. Redundancies
are no fun. I'm trying to figure all we're all
trying to figure out how to get more young Australians,
more reskilling Australians into good trades that will see them
out for life.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah. Hey, Michael right, the National Secretary of the Electrical
Trade Union. I appreciate your time this morning and and
sort of you know, bringing a different part of the
discussion to us.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Look, thank you very much for having me
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