September 10, 2026 • 14 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
There's plenty going on around the Territory at the moment.
But we know that the CLP, well, they're holding their
central council... This weekend with the Nationals leader, Matt Canavan,
arriving in Darwin to attend and he joins me in
the studio this morning. Good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Morning, Katie. How are you? Yeah, very good.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Good to have you back in the studio. We've spoken
to you on the phone a few times but haven't
seen you in Darwin for a little while.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
It is so good to be back up here in Darwin.
I love the place. It's even better when you arrive
from Canberra.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
It's a bit of a contrast.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
It's nice and warm, isn't it? No, it's a beautiful
time of year.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
It's a great place and I think it's a bit
of a beacon of hope and opportunity for our country.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Up here at the moment because it's a bit tough. elsewhere.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
And I'm sure your people are struggling too with the
inflationary pressures, all those things.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
But there's a lot going on here too. Yeah, there is.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
With the Beetaloo gas, first gas event. We need that.
We need energy. We need investment.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
So all power to the territory, whatever I can do
to support.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
There is plenty going on. There's no doubt about that.
What is on the agenda while you're here? I know
that you obviously are attending the CLP Central Council, but
what's on the agenda for you?
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Yeah, look, I'm primarily up here for that meeting, but
I've got a lunch with some businesses, catching up with
them after this. And then I'll be straight into the conference.
I've only got a quick trip here this time because
we are between sitting weeks in Canberra. So got up
here on the red eye last night and back on Sunday.
So it's a shame. I will be back up here
for more time. But the main thing, as I say,
(01:23):
is to send that message that we have to back
the territory right now as a country.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
We need it.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
We need some some hope, and I think you guys
are providing that. And it's just I'm very excited about
the opportunities up here. I've been very passionate about northern Australia,
as you know, for many years. And it just feels like,
you know, on the cusp of something big up here.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Well, let's talk gas. I know that we've seen the
federal government soften on the gas reservation policy by now
requiring Australian gas producers to supply up to 20% for
the domestic market. What's your take on this backtrack?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Well, it's some....
Speaker 3 (02:00):
If it moves in the right direction, that's for sure.
I always got the impression the government's policy, and I
had a few goes at this, it was all a
bit confusing, but it seemed a bit of an ambit claim.
But what we see this week is the recognition that
the Northern Territory and Western Australia are different markets. I
always recognised that as Resources Minister. The first goal of
(02:20):
this policy, what was proposed, was basically treating the Northern
Territory like it was Western Sydney. You know, it was
going to have to supply gas, 20% gas, of its
gas to Eastern Australia potentially. And I don't think the
opportunities here in the Beedaloo should be used as a
bailout for failed energy policies in Victoria and other states.
(02:40):
They need to fix their own energy policies first. And
the gas here should be developed for Territorians, for the
national interest of our country. And there are some real
constraints about bringing the gas from here all the way down.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
To southeastern Australia.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
And what is positive about this re-announced plan this week
is the government has said that, well, they'll take into
account those infrastructure constraints.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Well, I think they need to. I mean, the Beedaloo,
as we know, it is certainly flowing. It started flowing
last week. The Northern Territory Government's continuing to push ahead
as well to establish the Territory as a data centre hub.
What's been your take on the Energy Minister's insistence of
renewable power to power those centres?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
It's insane.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
It's doubling down on failure because even before we get
to the data centres, we can see that this government's
obsession with net zero, with renewable energy has been a failure.
It's a failure on their own terms. They promised they'd
cut our power bills by $ 275. Obviously, they've gone up
all around the country. And they have, this is the story,
same story repeated all around the world. Anywhere in the
(03:42):
world where we've seen governments become obsessed about just one
form of power, just solar and wind, power prices go up.
And you need a balance. You need a balanced diet.
You need a balanced energy system. There's a role for
solar and wind. There's a role for batteries. But we
need coal and gas and nuclear. We should have nuclear
as well in our view. All these things need to
be used. And, yes, you've got this unique opportunity with
(04:04):
the gas here. Keep in mind, and then you've got
the data centres. The unique thing about data centres is
that their electricity demand is more constant– bigger than almost
any other use in the country. And so matching that demand,
which is constant and always on 24-7 at a particular rate,
matching that with an energy source like wind and solar,
(04:25):
which is intermittent and doesn't stay on 24-7 at a
constant rate, is absolutely insane. So you need to have
something that can be relied upon to supply data centres.
Gas can do that. You see a lot of these
data centres using nuclear around the world. They're using coal
in Asia. Soil and wind is not really an option
for these types of power needs.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Look, it's certainly going to be interesting to see how
it all flows, to pardon the pun there, but to
see how it all flows in terms of those data
centres and the use of gas. But certainly for us
here in the Northern Territory, I know it's something that
our Chief Minister... Leah Finocchiaro is pushing very hard on.
I want to ask you about a topic that we
were literally just talking about with the CEO of Tourism
(05:06):
Top End. There's a lot of discussion over the last
couple of days about tourism operators warning that these proposed
federal government cuts to longer stay tourist and working holiday
visas could really hurt the Northern Territory's economy. We know
that tourism bodies across Australia say that backpackers are critical
to regional tourism, many needing more than 12 months to
(05:27):
travel across Australia. Now, they're going to be campaigning to
retain the number of and the length of stays of
those visas. Surely this cannot go ahead. I mean, it's
not just tourism, but you look at our mango pickers,
you look at, I'm sure in, you know, regional Queensland
where you're from, it's going to have an impact.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Well, can I just say very clearly, Katie, as leader
of the Nationals and as part of the broader Liberal
and Nationals Coalition, we will not be making or proposing
any cuts to working holidaymakers for regional Australia, including here
in the Territory. The reason we have that position is
for the reasons you've outlined. They are very important to
local economies in regional Australia. But it's also because working
(06:08):
holidaymakers and so-called backpacker visas are not the source of
the problem we have. No.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
We do need to bring migration numbers down as a whole.
They are too high.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
We need to make sure, in our view, that our
migration rates are set according to the number of houses
we build in this country. to make sure people have
a home, we have the services available for all Australians.
But when you look at the situation, this government has,
in my view, the Labor Party has botched the reopening
of borders post-COVID. We've ended up now with 3 million
people here on temporary visas. It used to be about
(06:39):
two before COVID. That extra million or so, in rough terms,
that extra million, just 65,000 of that increase is working holidaymakers.
So that's 6.5%. The vast majority, the big deal, is
the student visas. I think that's a scam. It's become
a scam with universities and migration agents. They're not selling courses.
They're not selling a degree. They're selling a visa. They're
(07:02):
selling permanent residency. And we've seen of that million, about
400,000 are either student or temporary graduate visas. Another 300,000
are on these so-called bridging visas. A lot of those
are students waiting for a decision. And so we need
to reorient our university system back to its core business
of teaching Australian students, doing Australian research, and yes, yes, having...
(07:25):
a side hustle, if you like, on exports, export revenue
from students, but not being their core business. There's some
courses now with over 50% of students are foreign.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
So, I mean, clearly from what you are saying, backpackers
are not the issue here. We need to make sure
really that we're not making changes in this space, particularly
for regional Australia, particularly for places like the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
And what I worry is the government at the moment is,
the government is adopting the lazy approach. Instead of fixing
the issue with the universities, fixing the issue with the
student visa scam, they are simply going go slow on applications,
including those for backpacker visas, to try and bring the
numbers down because they're not even meeting their own targets.
So they're trying to bring these numbers down and the
(08:10):
feedback I'm getting from agricultural organisations, tourist organisations, is there's
massive delays now in getting approval for the working-class makeup visas.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, yep.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
And that to me seems to just, as I say,
be a lazy attempt to cook the books on this,
to fix the numbers, rather than deal with the primary problem,
which is hard for Labor Party because, you know, they've
carried faith with a lot of these universities, but it's
not right for our national interest.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
To be really blunt about it, I guess they're probably
struggling a little bit to get some traction in, you know,
with this, with migration, as I guess the Coalition are
as well to some degree. When Pauline Hanson seems to
be kind of running the, you know, running the narrative,
in a lot of ways. But I do think tinkering
around the edges and tinkering around with things like backpackers
(08:52):
is not.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
The way to go.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Well, we won't be doing that. We're very clear on that.
And I'm not clear on what nation's migration policy is.
And I don't know if the news has come up
here as much, but I was just down at the
Bush Summit in Dubbo where Pauline Hanson had three different
migration policies in three minutes.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
I was sitting next to her.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
And she wanted to cut it back to what would
have been almost in effect zero.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
And then she was saying it was 130,000.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
And then.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
She was agreeing with David Farley, a fellow colleague of hers,
a member of One Nation, that there should be another
100,000 visas on top of the 130.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
So it's not clear what their policy is here.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
She's getting a lot of traction at the moment, though,
isn't she, Matt?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
No doubt.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
But on this issue, I think you're seeing the problems
here that if One Nation can't get this story straight
with just six members of parliament … How are they
going to make a team of 60 or 70 work?
Speaker 1 (09:38):
How do you– like, you know, how important is it
at the moment for the Nats and also for the
Libs to actually, you know, to make sure that you
guys are on the right path as well or make
sure that you know exactly which direction you're going in
when you have got the likes of Pauline Hanson, you know,
looking like she's chipping away at your votes?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
But I just welcome it.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
I love the political debate and competition and it makes
me tougher and stronger.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
So, you know, I thrive off it. So it's great.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Look, there's no doubt a lot of volatility in Australian
politics right now, but I'm fine with that because I
want to change the government. I think it's a terrible
government that's running our country to the ground. And so, yes,
I people are shopping around their vote. But that's a
good thing for us because they're out there engaging, they're
out there listening to different ideas. And it's just up
to me and the Nationals team that I lead. to
(10:26):
put out the best ideas we can and fight as
hard as we can for people.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
That's what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
I do want to ask you, she and Jackie Lambie
seem to be in a bit of a war of
words at the moment. Certainly, Jackie launched quite the attack
on her, accusing her of dividing the country and being
no friend to Australian voters and veterans, I should say.
Senator Lambie, basically calling on Miss Hanson, well, calling her
(10:50):
a maggot and a coward over One Nation's attacks on
Liberal MP and veteran Andrew Hastie. What did you make
of that? But what did you make of that video?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
The cartoon?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yeah, look, I think the cartoon is, this is a
cartoon for those who may not know that One Nation
put out, which called Andrew Hastie, an SAS veteran of
our military, named him as a traitor, I think, eight
or something times.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
It was off.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah. It was off. It was off. You're right, Katie.
It just was wrong. And we shouldn't do that.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
And there's legitimate debate about the issues surrounding the Burriton
Inquiry and Ben Roberts-Smith and One Nation can have a
view on that. But you should never resort to calling
a serving veteran of our country those words.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
No.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
One Nation should just apologise and take down the video.
We all make mistakes.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
But, look, I equally don't. I mean.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
You know, we don't need to resort to the sort
of personal attacks that I've heard you read out from
Jackie Lambie either. I don't make this personal with One
Nation or Pauline. I've got a great respect for Pauline.
She's been in Parliament for a long time. A very
resilient individual. I just don't agree that she's going to
be the answer for the country. And I don't need
to make that personal. But I'm going to be forceful
and strong with my views on that while being respectful.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Bit of a rumour circulating around today. I'm sure you've
seen it in the Australian newspaper that Firebrand Senator Jacinta
Nampajimpa Price, well, that she could potentially run for the Libs, well,
I guess as a senator for the LNP in Queensland.
What do you make of this?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Look, it's a matter for Jacinta. It's the first I've
heard of it this morning when the news broke yesterday.
I heard it when the news broke. In today's papers,
as you say, look, A matter for Jacinta. Look, I
wish Jacinta stayed with the Nats. I think she did
her best work with us.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
She defeated the boys with the Nats.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
You want her back.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Look, it's up to her.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
I was pretty disappointed by that because she was elected
to that just a year or so ago. But, look,
she's a rock star, as I've said time and time again.
She's got a lot to add and I'm sure to
continue to offer to Australian politics. I wish her best
whatever she decides to do. I'll be supporting her whatever
she decides to do. Even though I am disappointed, I thought,
you know, she– Had a home in the Nats. And
(13:03):
as I say, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
You'd much prefer her be a senator for the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Look, it's up to her.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
I'm sure we've got a great party up here, the
Country Liberal Party. Leah's doing an amazing job up here.
And there's great people up here. We're never irreplaceable, right?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
I'm not. One day I'll.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Hang up the boots, someone else will take over. Main
thing is we have that strong and functioning party. party
organisation that can stand the test of time.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Matt Canavan, a couple of messages for you this morning.
Leroy wants to know if you want to catch up
with him for a beer. And then you've got another message.
Matt Canavan, we need more politicians like him to tell
it how it is. Perhaps he can relocate he and
his family to Darwin.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
I have thought about that often. So I'll come back
to Leroy. But I've often felt this would be a
great place to live. And I've enjoyed my trips here.
I was here for three weeks through the 2020 campaign,
some of the best times of my life. It was
just so good. So, you know, partly because you were
open and we were all closed and COVID. But look,
it's a great place. So you're very lucky up here.
And on the beer, look, if you join the party,
(14:07):
you'll be coming to lots of functions, Leroy, so you
could do that. But there'll be no doubt I'll be
back and we'll do some kind of politics in the
pub as we always do. It's just a quick trip
this time because we're in between sitting weeks.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
So Roe v. Last Knife, Canberra, back again on Sunday.
Got to get back to work.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Well, Matt Canavan, Senator and, of course, the leader of
the Nationals, really good to catch up with you. Appreciate
your time.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Thanks, Katie. Thanks so much.
There's plenty going on around the Territory at the moment.
But we know that the CLP, well, they're holding their
central council... This weekend with the Nationals leader, Matt Canavan,
arriving in Darwin to attend and he joins me in
the studio this morning. Good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Morning, Katie. How are you? Yeah, very good.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Good to have you back in the studio. We've spoken
to you on the phone a few times but haven't
seen you in Darwin for a little while.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
It is so good to be back up here in Darwin.
I love the place. It's even better when you arrive
from Canberra.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
It's a bit of a contrast.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
It's nice and warm, isn't it? No, it's a beautiful
time of year.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
It's a great place and I think it's a bit
of a beacon of hope and opportunity for our country.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Up here at the moment because it's a bit tough. elsewhere.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
And I'm sure your people are struggling too with the
inflationary pressures, all those things.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
But there's a lot going on here too. Yeah, there is.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
With the Beetaloo gas, first gas event. We need that.
We need energy. We need investment.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
So all power to the territory, whatever I can do
to support.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
There is plenty going on. There's no doubt about that.
What is on the agenda while you're here? I know
that you obviously are attending the CLP Central Council, but
what's on the agenda for you?
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Yeah, look, I'm primarily up here for that meeting, but
I've got a lunch with some businesses, catching up with
them after this. And then I'll be straight into the conference.
I've only got a quick trip here this time because
we are between sitting weeks in Canberra. So got up
here on the red eye last night and back on Sunday.
So it's a shame. I will be back up here
for more time. But the main thing, as I say,
(01:23):
is to send that message that we have to back
the territory right now as a country.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
We need it.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
We need some some hope, and I think you guys
are providing that. And it's just I'm very excited about
the opportunities up here. I've been very passionate about northern Australia,
as you know, for many years. And it just feels like,
you know, on the cusp of something big up here.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Well, let's talk gas. I know that we've seen the
federal government soften on the gas reservation policy by now
requiring Australian gas producers to supply up to 20% for
the domestic market. What's your take on this backtrack?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Well, it's some....
Speaker 3 (02:00):
If it moves in the right direction, that's for sure.
I always got the impression the government's policy, and I
had a few goes at this, it was all a
bit confusing, but it seemed a bit of an ambit claim.
But what we see this week is the recognition that
the Northern Territory and Western Australia are different markets. I
always recognised that as Resources Minister. The first goal of
(02:20):
this policy, what was proposed, was basically treating the Northern
Territory like it was Western Sydney. You know, it was
going to have to supply gas, 20% gas, of its
gas to Eastern Australia potentially. And I don't think the
opportunities here in the Beedaloo should be used as a
bailout for failed energy policies in Victoria and other states.
(02:40):
They need to fix their own energy policies first. And
the gas here should be developed for Territorians, for the
national interest of our country. And there are some real
constraints about bringing the gas from here all the way down.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
To southeastern Australia.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
And what is positive about this re-announced plan this week
is the government has said that, well, they'll take into
account those infrastructure constraints.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Well, I think they need to. I mean, the Beedaloo,
as we know, it is certainly flowing. It started flowing
last week. The Northern Territory Government's continuing to push ahead
as well to establish the Territory as a data centre hub.
What's been your take on the Energy Minister's insistence of
renewable power to power those centres?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
It's insane.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
It's doubling down on failure because even before we get
to the data centres, we can see that this government's
obsession with net zero, with renewable energy has been a failure.
It's a failure on their own terms. They promised they'd
cut our power bills by $ 275. Obviously, they've gone up
all around the country. And they have, this is the story,
same story repeated all around the world. Anywhere in the
(03:42):
world where we've seen governments become obsessed about just one
form of power, just solar and wind, power prices go up.
And you need a balance. You need a balanced diet.
You need a balanced energy system. There's a role for
solar and wind. There's a role for batteries. But we
need coal and gas and nuclear. We should have nuclear
as well in our view. All these things need to
be used. And, yes, you've got this unique opportunity with
(04:04):
the gas here. Keep in mind, and then you've got
the data centres. The unique thing about data centres is
that their electricity demand is more constant– bigger than almost
any other use in the country. And so matching that demand,
which is constant and always on 24-7 at a particular rate,
matching that with an energy source like wind and solar,
(04:25):
which is intermittent and doesn't stay on 24-7 at a
constant rate, is absolutely insane. So you need to have
something that can be relied upon to supply data centres.
Gas can do that. You see a lot of these
data centres using nuclear around the world. They're using coal
in Asia. Soil and wind is not really an option
for these types of power needs.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Look, it's certainly going to be interesting to see how
it all flows, to pardon the pun there, but to
see how it all flows in terms of those data
centres and the use of gas. But certainly for us
here in the Northern Territory, I know it's something that
our Chief Minister... Leah Finocchiaro is pushing very hard on.
I want to ask you about a topic that we
were literally just talking about with the CEO of Tourism
(05:06):
Top End. There's a lot of discussion over the last
couple of days about tourism operators warning that these proposed
federal government cuts to longer stay tourist and working holiday
visas could really hurt the Northern Territory's economy. We know
that tourism bodies across Australia say that backpackers are critical
to regional tourism, many needing more than 12 months to
(05:27):
travel across Australia. Now, they're going to be campaigning to
retain the number of and the length of stays of
those visas. Surely this cannot go ahead. I mean, it's
not just tourism, but you look at our mango pickers,
you look at, I'm sure in, you know, regional Queensland
where you're from, it's going to have an impact.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Well, can I just say very clearly, Katie, as leader
of the Nationals and as part of the broader Liberal
and Nationals Coalition, we will not be making or proposing
any cuts to working holidaymakers for regional Australia, including here
in the Territory. The reason we have that position is
for the reasons you've outlined. They are very important to
local economies in regional Australia. But it's also because working
(06:08):
holidaymakers and so-called backpacker visas are not the source of
the problem we have. No.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
We do need to bring migration numbers down as a whole.
They are too high.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
We need to make sure, in our view, that our
migration rates are set according to the number of houses
we build in this country. to make sure people have
a home, we have the services available for all Australians.
But when you look at the situation, this government has,
in my view, the Labor Party has botched the reopening
of borders post-COVID. We've ended up now with 3 million
people here on temporary visas. It used to be about
(06:39):
two before COVID. That extra million or so, in rough terms,
that extra million, just 65,000 of that increase is working holidaymakers.
So that's 6.5%. The vast majority, the big deal, is
the student visas. I think that's a scam. It's become
a scam with universities and migration agents. They're not selling courses.
They're not selling a degree. They're selling a visa. They're
(07:02):
selling permanent residency. And we've seen of that million, about
400,000 are either student or temporary graduate visas. Another 300,000
are on these so-called bridging visas. A lot of those
are students waiting for a decision. And so we need
to reorient our university system back to its core business
of teaching Australian students, doing Australian research, and yes, yes, having...
(07:25):
a side hustle, if you like, on exports, export revenue
from students, but not being their core business. There's some
courses now with over 50% of students are foreign.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
So, I mean, clearly from what you are saying, backpackers
are not the issue here. We need to make sure
really that we're not making changes in this space, particularly
for regional Australia, particularly for places like the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
And what I worry is the government at the moment is,
the government is adopting the lazy approach. Instead of fixing
the issue with the universities, fixing the issue with the
student visa scam, they are simply going go slow on applications,
including those for backpacker visas, to try and bring the
numbers down because they're not even meeting their own targets.
So they're trying to bring these numbers down and the
(08:10):
feedback I'm getting from agricultural organisations, tourist organisations, is there's
massive delays now in getting approval for the working-class makeup visas.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, yep.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
And that to me seems to just, as I say,
be a lazy attempt to cook the books on this,
to fix the numbers, rather than deal with the primary problem,
which is hard for Labor Party because, you know, they've
carried faith with a lot of these universities, but it's
not right for our national interest.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
To be really blunt about it, I guess they're probably
struggling a little bit to get some traction in, you know,
with this, with migration, as I guess the Coalition are
as well to some degree. When Pauline Hanson seems to
be kind of running the, you know, running the narrative,
in a lot of ways. But I do think tinkering
around the edges and tinkering around with things like backpackers
(08:52):
is not.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
The way to go.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Well, we won't be doing that. We're very clear on that.
And I'm not clear on what nation's migration policy is.
And I don't know if the news has come up
here as much, but I was just down at the
Bush Summit in Dubbo where Pauline Hanson had three different
migration policies in three minutes.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
I was sitting next to her.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
And she wanted to cut it back to what would
have been almost in effect zero.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
And then she was saying it was 130,000.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
And then.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
She was agreeing with David Farley, a fellow colleague of hers,
a member of One Nation, that there should be another
100,000 visas on top of the 130.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
So it's not clear what their policy is here.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
She's getting a lot of traction at the moment, though,
isn't she, Matt?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
No doubt.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
But on this issue, I think you're seeing the problems
here that if One Nation can't get this story straight
with just six members of parliament … How are they
going to make a team of 60 or 70 work?
Speaker 1 (09:38):
How do you– like, you know, how important is it
at the moment for the Nats and also for the
Libs to actually, you know, to make sure that you
guys are on the right path as well or make
sure that you know exactly which direction you're going in
when you have got the likes of Pauline Hanson, you know,
looking like she's chipping away at your votes?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
But I just welcome it.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
I love the political debate and competition and it makes
me tougher and stronger.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
So, you know, I thrive off it. So it's great.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Look, there's no doubt a lot of volatility in Australian
politics right now, but I'm fine with that because I
want to change the government. I think it's a terrible
government that's running our country to the ground. And so, yes,
I people are shopping around their vote. But that's a
good thing for us because they're out there engaging, they're
out there listening to different ideas. And it's just up
to me and the Nationals team that I lead. to
(10:26):
put out the best ideas we can and fight as
hard as we can for people.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
That's what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
I do want to ask you, she and Jackie Lambie
seem to be in a bit of a war of
words at the moment. Certainly, Jackie launched quite the attack
on her, accusing her of dividing the country and being
no friend to Australian voters and veterans, I should say.
Senator Lambie, basically calling on Miss Hanson, well, calling her
(10:50):
a maggot and a coward over One Nation's attacks on
Liberal MP and veteran Andrew Hastie. What did you make
of that? But what did you make of that video?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
The cartoon?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yeah, look, I think the cartoon is, this is a
cartoon for those who may not know that One Nation
put out, which called Andrew Hastie, an SAS veteran of
our military, named him as a traitor, I think, eight
or something times.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
It was off.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah. It was off. It was off. You're right, Katie.
It just was wrong. And we shouldn't do that.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
And there's legitimate debate about the issues surrounding the Burriton
Inquiry and Ben Roberts-Smith and One Nation can have a
view on that. But you should never resort to calling
a serving veteran of our country those words.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
No.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
One Nation should just apologise and take down the video.
We all make mistakes.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
But, look, I equally don't. I mean.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
You know, we don't need to resort to the sort
of personal attacks that I've heard you read out from
Jackie Lambie either. I don't make this personal with One
Nation or Pauline. I've got a great respect for Pauline.
She's been in Parliament for a long time. A very
resilient individual. I just don't agree that she's going to
be the answer for the country. And I don't need
to make that personal. But I'm going to be forceful
and strong with my views on that while being respectful.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Bit of a rumour circulating around today. I'm sure you've
seen it in the Australian newspaper that Firebrand Senator Jacinta
Nampajimpa Price, well, that she could potentially run for the Libs, well,
I guess as a senator for the LNP in Queensland.
What do you make of this?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Look, it's a matter for Jacinta. It's the first I've
heard of it this morning when the news broke yesterday.
I heard it when the news broke. In today's papers,
as you say, look, A matter for Jacinta. Look, I
wish Jacinta stayed with the Nats. I think she did
her best work with us.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
She defeated the boys with the Nats.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
You want her back.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Look, it's up to her.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
I was pretty disappointed by that because she was elected
to that just a year or so ago. But, look,
she's a rock star, as I've said time and time again.
She's got a lot to add and I'm sure to
continue to offer to Australian politics. I wish her best
whatever she decides to do. I'll be supporting her whatever
she decides to do. Even though I am disappointed, I thought,
you know, she– Had a home in the Nats. And
(13:03):
as I say, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
You'd much prefer her be a senator for the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Look, it's up to her.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
I'm sure we've got a great party up here, the
Country Liberal Party. Leah's doing an amazing job up here.
And there's great people up here. We're never irreplaceable, right?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
I'm not. One day I'll.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Hang up the boots, someone else will take over. Main
thing is we have that strong and functioning party. party
organisation that can stand the test of time.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Matt Canavan, a couple of messages for you this morning.
Leroy wants to know if you want to catch up
with him for a beer. And then you've got another message.
Matt Canavan, we need more politicians like him to tell
it how it is. Perhaps he can relocate he and
his family to Darwin.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
I have thought about that often. So I'll come back
to Leroy. But I've often felt this would be a
great place to live. And I've enjoyed my trips here.
I was here for three weeks through the 2020 campaign,
some of the best times of my life. It was
just so good. So, you know, partly because you were
open and we were all closed and COVID. But look,
it's a great place. So you're very lucky up here.
And on the beer, look, if you join the party,
(14:07):
you'll be coming to lots of functions, Leroy, so you
could do that. But there'll be no doubt I'll be
back and we'll do some kind of politics in the
pub as we always do. It's just a quick trip
this time because we're in between sitting weeks.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
So Roe v. Last Knife, Canberra, back again on Sunday.
Got to get back to work.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Well, Matt Canavan, Senator and, of course, the leader of
the Nationals, really good to catch up with you. Appreciate
your time.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Thanks, Katie. Thanks so much.
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