Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
That the Department of Corrections have confirmed that a male
prisoner has died following a medical emergency at the Alice
Springs Correctional Centre yesterday. Now, joining us in the studio
to talk about this and plenty more, it is the
Northern Territory's Corrections Commissioner, Matthew Varley. Good morning to you, Commissioner.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Good morning, Katie.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now, what
are you able to tell us about this situation that
unfolded yesterday, a male prisoner dying after a medical emergency
at the Alice Springs Correctional Centre?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, Katie, our staff responded to an incident about 5.30
yesterday afternoon at the Alice Springs reintegration cottages. These are
the cottages out the front that are our lower security facility.
And it looks like at this point, and I need
to stress here, obviously these things are still unfolding, but
a 35-year-old man has suffered a medical event. He fell
(00:52):
to the ground after a sporting match. And then, of course,
our officers and medical staff on site responded And a
short time later, in fact, within about 20 odd minutes,
ambulance and police arrived on the scene. I think it
underscores the really difficult work that we do in corrections.
And our officers did a fantastic job yesterday. And I
(01:13):
was just reviewing incident reports this morning. And just to
give your readers some, I guess, some insight, our officers
and the paramedics and health staff performed CPR on this
person for about an hour. So it was a significant
medical incident. Our staff have done an outstanding job. Sadly,
(01:34):
the man was taken to hospital and pronounced deceased a
short time later. Now, obviously, those things are still subject
to ongoing police and coronial investigations and every death in
custody we take extremely seriously.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Yeah, well, look, certainly thinking of that man's family and
from everybody, for everybody there, the staff and everybody at
the prison that obviously witnessed that, it would have been tough, really,
really tough.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
That's right. And it is one of the realities of
what we deal with in Corrections. But I guess, yes,
we extend condolences to the man's family and community. There
are family members in prison today that are grieving and
we're working with them, of course, as well. And we're
working with all prisoners and staff in the site. But
I do want to underscore that not only, you know,
(02:19):
is that work important, but so too is recognising the staff,
the ambulance and police personnel who are exposed to a
pretty traumatic incident. And as I said, you know, worked
actively for an hour to try and save this man's life.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Commissioner, I do also want to ask you about another, well,
a couple of other incidents that have unfolded over the
last few days. We know that police continue searching for
four teenage boys who allegedly escaped from the Barkley Bail
Facility in Tennant Creek earlier this week. So five youths
scaled a fence and removed their electronic monitoring devices. Police
then caught one of the 16-year-olds after a foot chase
(02:53):
with the boy charged with breaching, bail and property damage.
The remaining four still missing at this stage. Is that
the latest?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Well, the latest, Katie, is a second young person, I
think around 14 years of age, was arrested by police
a couple of days ago. So there are three young
people still outstanding and police have continued to search for those.
I think there was some further public media by police
earlier a day or two ago asking community to keep
(03:22):
any eyes out for young people. There was concerns around
the fact that they might try to leave Tennant Creek.
So obviously we're working closely with police to provide any
information we can. I think the important thing to recognise, Katie,
in this incident is that the Barkley Bail Facility is
exactly that. It's not a youth detention centre. It's a
facility that we run to support the courts to give
(03:44):
alternatives to detention. And so our youth justice workers there
support those young people to comply with their bail conditions.
They are on electronic monitoring ankle bracelets as well. But
once those kids escaped, the alerts went off within about 10,
15 minutes telling us that they'd removed the devices and
cut them off. They got them straight off.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Are they dangerous?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Well, the young people that are at large have got
a number of offences in their background. I'll need to
be careful what I say here, but offences relating to
burglary and theft and driving in stolen cars. So, of course,
that presents risks to the community and police obviously working
very hard to locate them.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
What does the incident tell you about that facility? Is
it just not secure enough? Does there need to be
some changes or, or, you know, is it a situation where,
like you've said, it's a bail facility. So if someone
wants to get out, the reality is they actually can.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Well, that's right. It's not a detention center and we
operate three of these Katie across the territory. There's one
here in Darwin. There's one in tenant. Uh, the one
in tenant is eight beds. Uh, and then we have
the paper bark bail facility bootcamp facility in Alice. Um,
those are different to our detention centers. Um, and they
are designed to be a midpoint, um, for courts to
(05:01):
bail someone on restrictions to those facilities and of course
we then provide them with structured accommodation and support services
through our youth justice workers and if a kid decides
to breach their bail we obviously try to prevent that
but should they run away it's not a detention centre
so we can't restrict them from doing that.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah look I know people are going to be listening
just thinking that's a bit of a joke in terms
of punishment for someone but that's You know, that's not
something for you. That's more something that we talk about really,
I guess, in terms of legislation.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Well, I guess the piece, Katie, is we've got a
very robust youth justice system. We have, like we do
in adults, we have custody, we have supported bail accommodation
and we have community supervision. And our community youth justice
workers also supervise young people in the community on court orders.
These bail facilities are designed to be another option for courts.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
They're not secure facilities. They were never designed to be
like that. And we do, I mean, in fairness, the
staff do a great job providing kids with a structured
day and lifestyle that they wouldn't otherwise have. Yep.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Look, I do want to ask you about another, quite
a strange incident that was reported earlier in the week.
A woman managing to get inside the men's Barkley work camp.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Why? Why?
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Was she looking to visit a prisoner?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
She did. She was in custody for an hour and
a half, Katie, and I think she used that hour
and a half wisely.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
A quick trip.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
One could say that, Katie. You use your imagination. But
the issue for us, of course, is the Barclay youth–
I'm going. We've had a big week in Barclay.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Sorry, mate.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I've taken you on a few different incidents. We've had
a big week in Barclay.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
She's gotten in to purposely go and see somebody, by
the sounds of it.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
She has breached the– To have a rendezvous. She's had
a rendezvous, Katie. There's no doubt about that. The good
news is the rendezvous was quickly interrupted by staff and
prisoners who reported her presence to our officers. Now, the
Barkley Work Camp is a 74-bed, low-security or open-rated facility. Yeah. Now, obviously,
this is a serious security incident for us, but we
(07:13):
need to remember that the purpose of our work camps
is the last step in that step-down reintegration piece as
prisoners conclude their sentence and be ready for release into
the community. So it's an open-rated facility. That means it
actually does not have a fully secure perimeter like a prison.
It's the same as the one in Datchelor out at Nullenboy. Mm-hmm.
(07:34):
We have these facilities that have been in place for
a long time. They're designed to be a reintegration facility
and those prisoners go out into the community on day
release for work. We have some cameras and some other
security systems in play. On this occasion, the woman managed
to find a way in through the gate at the
back of the facility. She was detected by staff and
(07:54):
prisoners and police were called. She was taken into custody. Yes.
what she did in those hour and a half period
of time is still subject to inquiries. But I want
to make the point trespassing unlawfully onto any correctional facility
is an offence. And we've referred that matter to police.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. Hey, I do want to
ask you, I know there's been a development in the
enterprise bargaining negotiations with the United Workers Union. Can you
talk me through where things are currently at and what
happened with the Fair Work Commission?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, Katie. So it is a significant and unprecedented step
in terms of our industrial work here in NT Corrections.
We've been in bargaining for the enterprise agreement with corrections
officers for, I think, 15 or 16 months now since
mid last year. The Fair Work Commission ordered what's called
an intractable bargaining declaration last Friday. What that means is
(08:50):
it determined that the parties were unable to reach a
negotiated agreement. So That's essentially an intervention by the Fair
Work Commission. They become now the independent umpire. What it
means is that lawfully, all protected industrial action must cease
as of the date of that order last Friday. And
we now enter into a constructed, facilitated arbitration process.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
So does that mean they can't strike or they can't
do any of that that they had previously?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
That's correct. That's correct. So what it means is the
parties are now subject to the facilitated instruction and negotiation
by the Fair Work Commission. We see that as a
very important step and a structured step to be able
to bring us to a successful conclusion on this. It's
gone on too long, Katie. We want to see this resolved. However...
(09:41):
we've been unable to reach agreement with the union on
the terms and conditions of that EA.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Do you reckon that the union and some of those
workers are going to feel that that's maybe a bit
heavy handed or takes away their bargaining power?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I think the important thing for, and you and I
have spoken about this in the past, the important thing
for Territorians to know is that we need to ensure
that the prison system can operate well. The union's criticism
of us and me is that we're not committing to
safe staffing of prisons. That's just simply not true. We've
grown the corrections workforce by more than 40% over the
(10:16):
last three years. What this is about is being able to, A,
agree on a fair pay rise, but B, there are
restrictions in the enterprise agreement that prevent me from running
the prisons, essentially, and that I must sign written operating
model agreements with the union. What that does is restricts
how our general managers and myself can run the prisons,
(10:37):
and we say that needs to change.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
And so essentially, this decision now by Fair Work stops
that from happening.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Well, what it does is stops the parties from taking
or stops the union from taking industrial action and binds
us together in a mediation process where ultimately the Fair
Work umpire can make a decision.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
And do you feel as though that is going to
mean that you're able to come to an outcome sooner
rather than later?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Well, we don't know how long it will take, Katie.
That's up to the Fair Work Commission. These things can
take a long time. Mm-hmm. But our next conference in
front of the Fair Work Commission is on the 24th
of September. I would like to see this brought to
a resolution. Ultimately, every day that this goes on is
too long. It's a distraction from the work we need
to do for the Territory. But ultimately, we need to
(11:25):
be guided by the Commissioner of Fair Work. And ultimately,
the union needs to understand that we've got a job
to do as well.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Well, Corrections Commissioner Matthew Varley, we will leave it there.
Thank you as always for your time. I appreciate you
joining us in the studio.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Thanks, Katie.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Thank you.
That the Department of Corrections have confirmed that a male
prisoner has died following a medical emergency at the Alice
Springs Correctional Centre yesterday. Now, joining us in the studio
to talk about this and plenty more, it is the
Northern Territory's Corrections Commissioner, Matthew Varley. Good morning to you, Commissioner.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Good morning, Katie.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now, what
are you able to tell us about this situation that
unfolded yesterday, a male prisoner dying after a medical emergency
at the Alice Springs Correctional Centre?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, Katie, our staff responded to an incident about 5.30
yesterday afternoon at the Alice Springs reintegration cottages. These are
the cottages out the front that are our lower security facility.
And it looks like at this point, and I need
to stress here, obviously these things are still unfolding, but
a 35-year-old man has suffered a medical event. He fell
(00:52):
to the ground after a sporting match. And then, of course,
our officers and medical staff on site responded And a
short time later, in fact, within about 20 odd minutes,
ambulance and police arrived on the scene. I think it
underscores the really difficult work that we do in corrections.
And our officers did a fantastic job yesterday. And I
(01:13):
was just reviewing incident reports this morning. And just to
give your readers some, I guess, some insight, our officers
and the paramedics and health staff performed CPR on this
person for about an hour. So it was a significant
medical incident. Our staff have done an outstanding job. Sadly,
(01:34):
the man was taken to hospital and pronounced deceased a
short time later. Now, obviously, those things are still subject
to ongoing police and coronial investigations and every death in
custody we take extremely seriously.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Yeah, well, look, certainly thinking of that man's family and
from everybody, for everybody there, the staff and everybody at
the prison that obviously witnessed that, it would have been tough, really,
really tough.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
That's right. And it is one of the realities of
what we deal with in Corrections. But I guess, yes,
we extend condolences to the man's family and community. There
are family members in prison today that are grieving and
we're working with them, of course, as well. And we're
working with all prisoners and staff in the site. But
I do want to underscore that not only, you know,
(02:19):
is that work important, but so too is recognising the staff,
the ambulance and police personnel who are exposed to a
pretty traumatic incident. And as I said, you know, worked
actively for an hour to try and save this man's life.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Commissioner, I do also want to ask you about another, well,
a couple of other incidents that have unfolded over the
last few days. We know that police continue searching for
four teenage boys who allegedly escaped from the Barkley Bail
Facility in Tennant Creek earlier this week. So five youths
scaled a fence and removed their electronic monitoring devices. Police
then caught one of the 16-year-olds after a foot chase
(02:53):
with the boy charged with breaching, bail and property damage.
The remaining four still missing at this stage. Is that
the latest?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Well, the latest, Katie, is a second young person, I
think around 14 years of age, was arrested by police
a couple of days ago. So there are three young
people still outstanding and police have continued to search for those.
I think there was some further public media by police
earlier a day or two ago asking community to keep
(03:22):
any eyes out for young people. There was concerns around
the fact that they might try to leave Tennant Creek.
So obviously we're working closely with police to provide any
information we can. I think the important thing to recognise, Katie,
in this incident is that the Barkley Bail Facility is
exactly that. It's not a youth detention centre. It's a
facility that we run to support the courts to give
(03:44):
alternatives to detention. And so our youth justice workers there
support those young people to comply with their bail conditions.
They are on electronic monitoring ankle bracelets as well. But
once those kids escaped, the alerts went off within about 10,
15 minutes telling us that they'd removed the devices and
cut them off. They got them straight off.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Are they dangerous?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Well, the young people that are at large have got
a number of offences in their background. I'll need to
be careful what I say here, but offences relating to
burglary and theft and driving in stolen cars. So, of course,
that presents risks to the community and police obviously working
very hard to locate them.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
What does the incident tell you about that facility? Is
it just not secure enough? Does there need to be
some changes or, or, you know, is it a situation where,
like you've said, it's a bail facility. So if someone
wants to get out, the reality is they actually can.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Well, that's right. It's not a detention center and we
operate three of these Katie across the territory. There's one
here in Darwin. There's one in tenant. Uh, the one
in tenant is eight beds. Uh, and then we have
the paper bark bail facility bootcamp facility in Alice. Um,
those are different to our detention centers. Um, and they
are designed to be a midpoint, um, for courts to
(05:01):
bail someone on restrictions to those facilities and of course
we then provide them with structured accommodation and support services
through our youth justice workers and if a kid decides
to breach their bail we obviously try to prevent that
but should they run away it's not a detention centre
so we can't restrict them from doing that.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah look I know people are going to be listening
just thinking that's a bit of a joke in terms
of punishment for someone but that's You know, that's not
something for you. That's more something that we talk about really,
I guess, in terms of legislation.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Well, I guess the piece, Katie, is we've got a
very robust youth justice system. We have, like we do
in adults, we have custody, we have supported bail accommodation
and we have community supervision. And our community youth justice
workers also supervise young people in the community on court orders.
These bail facilities are designed to be another option for courts.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
They're not secure facilities. They were never designed to be
like that. And we do, I mean, in fairness, the
staff do a great job providing kids with a structured
day and lifestyle that they wouldn't otherwise have. Yep.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Look, I do want to ask you about another, quite
a strange incident that was reported earlier in the week.
A woman managing to get inside the men's Barkley work camp.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Why? Why?
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Was she looking to visit a prisoner?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
She did. She was in custody for an hour and
a half, Katie, and I think she used that hour
and a half wisely.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
A quick trip.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
One could say that, Katie. You use your imagination. But
the issue for us, of course, is the Barclay youth–
I'm going. We've had a big week in Barclay.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Sorry, mate.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I've taken you on a few different incidents. We've had
a big week in Barclay.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
She's gotten in to purposely go and see somebody, by
the sounds of it.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
She has breached the– To have a rendezvous. She's had
a rendezvous, Katie. There's no doubt about that. The good
news is the rendezvous was quickly interrupted by staff and
prisoners who reported her presence to our officers. Now, the
Barkley Work Camp is a 74-bed, low-security or open-rated facility. Yeah. Now, obviously,
this is a serious security incident for us, but we
(07:13):
need to remember that the purpose of our work camps
is the last step in that step-down reintegration piece as
prisoners conclude their sentence and be ready for release into
the community. So it's an open-rated facility. That means it
actually does not have a fully secure perimeter like a prison.
It's the same as the one in Datchelor out at Nullenboy. Mm-hmm.
(07:34):
We have these facilities that have been in place for
a long time. They're designed to be a reintegration facility
and those prisoners go out into the community on day
release for work. We have some cameras and some other
security systems in play. On this occasion, the woman managed
to find a way in through the gate at the
back of the facility. She was detected by staff and
(07:54):
prisoners and police were called. She was taken into custody. Yes.
what she did in those hour and a half period
of time is still subject to inquiries. But I want
to make the point trespassing unlawfully onto any correctional facility
is an offence. And we've referred that matter to police.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. Hey, I do want to
ask you, I know there's been a development in the
enterprise bargaining negotiations with the United Workers Union. Can you
talk me through where things are currently at and what
happened with the Fair Work Commission?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, Katie. So it is a significant and unprecedented step
in terms of our industrial work here in NT Corrections.
We've been in bargaining for the enterprise agreement with corrections
officers for, I think, 15 or 16 months now since
mid last year. The Fair Work Commission ordered what's called
an intractable bargaining declaration last Friday. What that means is
(08:50):
it determined that the parties were unable to reach a
negotiated agreement. So That's essentially an intervention by the Fair
Work Commission. They become now the independent umpire. What it
means is that lawfully, all protected industrial action must cease
as of the date of that order last Friday. And
we now enter into a constructed, facilitated arbitration process.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
So does that mean they can't strike or they can't
do any of that that they had previously?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
That's correct. That's correct. So what it means is the
parties are now subject to the facilitated instruction and negotiation
by the Fair Work Commission. We see that as a
very important step and a structured step to be able
to bring us to a successful conclusion on this. It's
gone on too long, Katie. We want to see this resolved. However...
(09:41):
we've been unable to reach agreement with the union on
the terms and conditions of that EA.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Do you reckon that the union and some of those
workers are going to feel that that's maybe a bit
heavy handed or takes away their bargaining power?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I think the important thing for, and you and I
have spoken about this in the past, the important thing
for Territorians to know is that we need to ensure
that the prison system can operate well. The union's criticism
of us and me is that we're not committing to
safe staffing of prisons. That's just simply not true. We've
grown the corrections workforce by more than 40% over the
(10:16):
last three years. What this is about is being able to, A,
agree on a fair pay rise, but B, there are
restrictions in the enterprise agreement that prevent me from running
the prisons, essentially, and that I must sign written operating
model agreements with the union. What that does is restricts
how our general managers and myself can run the prisons,
(10:37):
and we say that needs to change.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
And so essentially, this decision now by Fair Work stops
that from happening.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Well, what it does is stops the parties from taking
or stops the union from taking industrial action and binds
us together in a mediation process where ultimately the Fair
Work umpire can make a decision.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
And do you feel as though that is going to
mean that you're able to come to an outcome sooner
rather than later?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Well, we don't know how long it will take, Katie.
That's up to the Fair Work Commission. These things can
take a long time. Mm-hmm. But our next conference in
front of the Fair Work Commission is on the 24th
of September. I would like to see this brought to
a resolution. Ultimately, every day that this goes on is
too long. It's a distraction from the work we need
to do for the Territory. But ultimately, we need to
(11:25):
be guided by the Commissioner of Fair Work. And ultimately,
the union needs to understand that we've got a job
to do as well.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Well, Corrections Commissioner Matthew Varley, we will leave it there.
Thank you as always for your time. I appreciate you
joining us in the studio.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Thanks, Katie.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Thank you.
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