May 6, 2026 • 12 mins
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you were listening to the show yesterday, you would
(00:02):
have heard us reporting on the fact that the Australian
newspaper had reported that the five year old girl allegedly
murdered in Alice Springs was the subject of six child
protection reports since mid March and was living well in
what was described as a dangerous environment. That is what
sources familiar with the case told the Australian newspaper. Now,
(00:22):
according to that report, police made the last notification to
Northern Territory the Department of Children and Families two days
before she went missing in Alice Springs on April twenty five. Now,
the Minister for Children and Families, Robin Carl joined us
on the show yesterday and revealed that three staff had
been stood down following that internal investigation well and a
(00:45):
further investigation is going to happen, and that legislative changes
could be on the way. Now joining me in the
studio is the Northern Territory Police Commissioner Martin Dole. Good
morning to your commissioner.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Good morning Katie, and good morning to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Commissioner. It has been and it's always a busy time
for you and our Northern Territory Police. But it has
been a huge couple of weeks for Northern Territory Police,
particularly in Alice Springs. How are things going at the
moment from your perspective.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah, thanks Katie, it certainly has. It's been a really
difficult and impactful couple of weeks. But look, our members
continue to step up and serve and protect the public
in Olice. So whilst we saw some really unfortunate behaviors
in Alis and some stuff that we've had to call
out publicly, I think the relationship between the police and
community is good. Alice Springs is obviously still grieving, as
(01:35):
are our police that we're involved as well, so you
know it's important to recognize that. And there is a
vigil this evening in Alice Springs and across Australia, I believe,
so it will be important for people to turn up
to that and you know, display their grief and share
their sorrow, and our police will be going to that
as well.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Yeah. I think you and I spoke about this last week.
You know, it was so disappointing to see that riotous
behavior on Thursday night last week, but what we'd seen
prior to that was a situation where the police literally,
you know, like walking shoulder to shoulder with members of
the community, with people from right across Alice Springs, from
all walks of life, searching for a little baby girl,
(02:14):
you know, yeah, to hopefully find us safe and the
outcome devastating. But what we saw from the community was
really beautiful.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
And I think that's important to remember, Katie, is that
what we saw on that Thursday night, you know, really
was an aberration.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
That's not normal.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
So what we saw for the five days before that
is exactly what you said, overwhelming support, community coming together,
shared interest in hopefully having a better result, and tragic
circumstances and devastating for everyone involved. But that didn't excuse
what we saw on that Thursday night, No.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
It really didn't. And then though, what we've seen from
the Northern Territory Police is some really hard work to
actually arrest thirty people, as I understand it, following on
from that behavior.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
So over thirty now, So like we said publicly, that
behavior won't be tolerated.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
It shouldn't have occurred.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
It was a born and we went rest until everybody
that was responsible for that looting and that criminal damage
is held to account and that's exactly what's occurring. So
there's over thirty arrest Now, we've got a dedicated investigative
team that are on that working really hard in Ola Springs,
and there's some real go getters down there from up
here in Series Crime down there assisting them as well.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Yeah, and look big a big team of police in
Ala Springs at the moment. How so things have remained
relatively calm. Now. I know that there were those alcohol
restrictions that were in place for a couple of days.
Obviously you've got some additional police down there have has
all of that helped and is that going to are
you looking at further alcohol restrictions or anything or no
(03:46):
need right now?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Yes, So it definitely helped, Katie. It wasn't restrictions implemented
by us. That was a really great response by industry
that on request recognized the need for that for a
short period of time in our springs and they you know,
we sent that request out and they responded and we're
thankful for that. Today there is some again, there's some
alcohol restrictions in Alice Springs because there's some significant events
(04:10):
in Alla Springs today. There's a there's a funeral for
a very senior Aboriginal liaison officer that's likely to see
about seven hundred people come in Alice Springs for that,
and then we've got the vigil this evening.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
So most of.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Industry has responded in relation to that request. But there's
unfortunately there's some that have chosen to take profits over
people and they haven't voluntarily decided to close today. But
most of the most of the players have Yes, Okay,
we're happy with that.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, that's really positive. You know that most have and
that most have decided that that's a good idea. I
might I might swing back to afterwards if I'm able
to just find out a little bit more about the
Aboriginal Community Police officer whose funeral it is today, But
before that, I do just want to stick with what
is happening in Alice Springs around around this situation. It
(04:57):
was incredibly hard worked by the Northern Territory Police se
this week, eventually apprehending that offender, the forty seven year old. Now,
I won't go into a huge amount of detail because
I'm very conscious of the fact that this is before
the courts and absolutely that little girl deserves justice. But
you guys must have been pleased when you got him.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah, absolutely, Katie.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Like we said, we had detectives working around the clock,
and just you know, that's the type of thing that
police work for is results, and that's results for that family.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
And when we.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Apprehended him, you know, there was a sense of relief
that we got him. Then we saw what we saw
and people calling for him to be released, calls for
traditional law, and we've talked about this previously, Katie, and
you know it's my view that that's often thrown about
as an excuse for bad behavior, you know, for uncontrolled violence.
And that's what we saw on Thursday night. So our
(05:51):
job is to serve and protect. We swear an oath
we don't get to choose who we protect. And that's
exactly what we were doing when we took mister Lewis
into custody and took him to the hospital to see
you know, people deciding to take action into their own
hands and then inflict damage to the hospital, burn police cars,
attack police and other emergency service workers just was unacceptable.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, and look, it's not okay. I know that all
of us probably felt that same level of anger and thought,
you know, you'd like to think of the kind of
justice that an alleged offender can be dealt. But it's
not our responsibility as a community to deliver that justice.
In fact, it's absolutely up to the courts now, so
we can't go rogue. Now. I do want to ask you.
(06:35):
We know that there's a report in the Australian newspaper
over the last twenty four hours by Liam Mendees reporting
that well that the little girl was the subject of
six child protection reports since mid March and was living
in what was described as a dangerous environment. That is
what sources familiar with the case told the Australian. Now,
(06:57):
according to the report by Liam Mendez, police may the
last notification to the Northern Territories Department of Children and
Families two days before she went missing in Alice Springs. Commissioner,
I know that you may not be able to comment
on specifics here, but I will ask is that the case.
Did the Northern Territory Police make that report to Children
(07:19):
and Families two days before?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yes, O, Katie.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I'm a little bit bound by legislative provisions that you
know don't allow me to give that type of information,
but probably want to assure you and your listeners. I
understand there's a huge amount of public interest in this case,
and there should be, and I just want to assure
the public that the entire circumstances around that case, for
the criminal matter and for the cronial matter, will be investigated.
(07:43):
So every circumstance around that will be investigated, and all
of those things will come out at the correct time,
in the correct process. So it's probably not something that
I can comment on at.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
The moment, Commission.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I know that, certainly we spoke to the minister responsible
for this department yesterday. She'd revealed on the show that
three staff members have now been stood down. There is
going to be an investigation to work out exactly what's
gone on. Now. I certainly respect what you've said, but
I know that it's reported in that article that police
are privately outraged at the inaction from the department in
(08:17):
relation to the most recent escalation in reports. I mean,
are you outraged that something could be reported to a
department and be ignored.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Yes, Look, Katie, we haven't officially disclosed any information in
relation to kumenjoin a little baby's history. I think my
role is to remain professional. We've got a statutory obligation
to report instances of child welfare and concern, and our
officers do.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
That and we do that regularly.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
So look, there may be times where we release reports
and we have vigorous conversation with the Department of Children
and Families, but that's a working relationship between us and them.
And now police are professional and come across incident and
then act in accordance with what they're required to do
under the APRON report those circumstances.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
So I guess from stepping away from this case, I
do just want to ask you more broadly. I mean,
in those situations where if there is a child that
police believe may be in danger, whether it's in Alice Springs,
whether it's here in dah and wherever it is, no
matter what your background is or where you come from,
that is something that then the police obviously notify children
(09:27):
and families about.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
We're statutory obliged to. So we're reporting officers under the
Act and we have an obligation to report that to
Department of Children and Families.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yes, all right, Commissioner, I won't ask you more questions
about that. I can see we're not going to get
very far because obviously you are respecting the laws and
that is fair enough. Now, I do want to just
touch on before I take you to the budget. I
do just want to touch on. You mentioned a moment
ago that there's a service today for an Aboriginal community
police officer who's passed away. Are you able to give
(09:58):
us any more detail about that.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yeah, so it was an Aboriginal liaison officer. Sorry, so
it's kumenjoy Sterling. He was one of our very first
Aboriginal liaison officers and Alice Springs, a very senior man
and unfortunately he passed away after a long ill illness,
but very well respected across the community of Alice Springs,
very well respected. I'm one of the first chairmen of
(10:20):
Lura Tippe and Ala Springs and deeply connected to the police.
So we'll have a presence of that funeral and I
just encourage if your listeners are down that way to
please join in with that service as well.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah, no doubt it will be well attended. I'm sure.
All right, Commissioner. I want to ask you about the
Northern Territory budget. We know that it was handed down
earlier this week, the government announcing a six hundred and
fifty four million dollar investment into the Northern Territory police.
They say it's going to fund more officers, new infrastructure
and expanded safety programs. Tell me, what impact do you
(10:50):
expect that these additional police officers this funding is going
to have. I know some of it's probably already there
and has been operational for a while.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Look hopefully a continued impact ka on bringing down crime.
It's a record police budget, the biggest police budget in history,
forty six million dollars, bigger than our budget last year.
I think it's important to note whilst there's funding for
new police officers, there's also additional funding above and beyond
that for the police Public Safety Officer program. We've talked
about that and that's an exciting development, with the first
(11:19):
squad of over twenty officers due to graduate in a
number of weeks in June. So what we will see
from that is more visible police, higher visible presence and
hopefully driving down a crime stats across the territory.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
As I understand that there's also some money in there
as part of that spend for housing and stations to
improve operational capacity, particularly in remote areas.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Absolutely, how big a difference will that make.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
A huge difference, Katie. So one of our problems is
getting police and keeping policing communities. We've been aware for
a long time that the infrastructure is aging, some of
it's not fit for purpose. We have legacy stations from
the intervention that just haven't been replaced. And this goes
towards giving our police what they deserve on communities to
be able to live and work within that community and
(12:02):
have a permanent presence. So it's very well welcome, yeah,
and it's going to assist us in filling those gaps
in the bush.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
I mean even when you're talking like obviously that infrastructure
is a really positive thing, but then when you're talking
about those additional officers and those police public safety officers,
like that's going to make a big difference, isn't it
to people when you're when you are out and about
and you see those public safety officers on the street.
I know there've been like there's been some criticism of
what kind of powers they may or may not have
(12:28):
and whether they're going to cross the line than being armed,
but hopefully it's like it's a positive impact that people
can see when they're out and about around the.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Place, Katie.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
I'm very very confident that they're going to be a
game changer for the Norn Territory Police and they're going
to give us that ability to be out there doing
that proactive work that we're just not being able to
get to all of the time at the moment.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah. Well, Northern Territory Police Commissioner Martin Dole, we'll leave
it there for this morning. Really appreciate your time. Thank
you very much for joining us on the show.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Thank you so much for having me Katie,
If you were listening to the show yesterday, you would
(00:02):
have heard us reporting on the fact that the Australian
newspaper had reported that the five year old girl allegedly
murdered in Alice Springs was the subject of six child
protection reports since mid March and was living well in
what was described as a dangerous environment. That is what
sources familiar with the case told the Australian newspaper. Now,
(00:22):
according to that report, police made the last notification to
Northern Territory the Department of Children and Families two days
before she went missing in Alice Springs on April twenty five. Now,
the Minister for Children and Families, Robin Carl joined us
on the show yesterday and revealed that three staff had
been stood down following that internal investigation well and a
(00:45):
further investigation is going to happen, and that legislative changes
could be on the way. Now joining me in the
studio is the Northern Territory Police Commissioner Martin Dole. Good
morning to your commissioner.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Good morning Katie, and good morning to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Commissioner. It has been and it's always a busy time
for you and our Northern Territory Police. But it has
been a huge couple of weeks for Northern Territory Police,
particularly in Alice Springs. How are things going at the
moment from your perspective.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah, thanks Katie, it certainly has. It's been a really
difficult and impactful couple of weeks. But look, our members
continue to step up and serve and protect the public
in Olice. So whilst we saw some really unfortunate behaviors
in Alis and some stuff that we've had to call
out publicly, I think the relationship between the police and
community is good. Alice Springs is obviously still grieving, as
(01:35):
are our police that we're involved as well, so you
know it's important to recognize that. And there is a
vigil this evening in Alice Springs and across Australia, I believe,
so it will be important for people to turn up
to that and you know, display their grief and share
their sorrow, and our police will be going to that
as well.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Yeah. I think you and I spoke about this last week.
You know, it was so disappointing to see that riotous
behavior on Thursday night last week, but what we'd seen
prior to that was a situation where the police literally,
you know, like walking shoulder to shoulder with members of
the community, with people from right across Alice Springs, from
all walks of life, searching for a little baby girl,
(02:14):
you know, yeah, to hopefully find us safe and the
outcome devastating. But what we saw from the community was
really beautiful.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
And I think that's important to remember, Katie, is that
what we saw on that Thursday night, you know, really
was an aberration.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
That's not normal.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
So what we saw for the five days before that
is exactly what you said, overwhelming support, community coming together,
shared interest in hopefully having a better result, and tragic
circumstances and devastating for everyone involved. But that didn't excuse
what we saw on that Thursday night, No.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
It really didn't. And then though, what we've seen from
the Northern Territory Police is some really hard work to
actually arrest thirty people, as I understand it, following on
from that behavior.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
So over thirty now, So like we said publicly, that
behavior won't be tolerated.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
It shouldn't have occurred.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
It was a born and we went rest until everybody
that was responsible for that looting and that criminal damage
is held to account and that's exactly what's occurring. So
there's over thirty arrest Now, we've got a dedicated investigative
team that are on that working really hard in Ola Springs,
and there's some real go getters down there from up
here in Series Crime down there assisting them as well.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Yeah, and look big a big team of police in
Ala Springs at the moment. How so things have remained
relatively calm. Now. I know that there were those alcohol
restrictions that were in place for a couple of days.
Obviously you've got some additional police down there have has
all of that helped and is that going to are
you looking at further alcohol restrictions or anything or no
(03:46):
need right now?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Yes, So it definitely helped, Katie. It wasn't restrictions implemented
by us. That was a really great response by industry
that on request recognized the need for that for a
short period of time in our springs and they you know,
we sent that request out and they responded and we're
thankful for that. Today there is some again, there's some
alcohol restrictions in Alice Springs because there's some significant events
(04:10):
in Alla Springs today. There's a there's a funeral for
a very senior Aboriginal liaison officer that's likely to see
about seven hundred people come in Alice Springs for that,
and then we've got the vigil this evening.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
So most of.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Industry has responded in relation to that request. But there's
unfortunately there's some that have chosen to take profits over
people and they haven't voluntarily decided to close today. But
most of the most of the players have Yes, Okay,
we're happy with that.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, that's really positive. You know that most have and
that most have decided that that's a good idea. I
might I might swing back to afterwards if I'm able
to just find out a little bit more about the
Aboriginal Community Police officer whose funeral it is today, But
before that, I do just want to stick with what
is happening in Alice Springs around around this situation. It
(04:57):
was incredibly hard worked by the Northern Territory Police se
this week, eventually apprehending that offender, the forty seven year old. Now,
I won't go into a huge amount of detail because
I'm very conscious of the fact that this is before
the courts and absolutely that little girl deserves justice. But
you guys must have been pleased when you got him.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah, absolutely, Katie.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Like we said, we had detectives working around the clock,
and just you know, that's the type of thing that
police work for is results, and that's results for that family.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
And when we.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Apprehended him, you know, there was a sense of relief
that we got him. Then we saw what we saw
and people calling for him to be released, calls for
traditional law, and we've talked about this previously, Katie, and
you know it's my view that that's often thrown about
as an excuse for bad behavior, you know, for uncontrolled violence.
And that's what we saw on Thursday night. So our
(05:51):
job is to serve and protect. We swear an oath
we don't get to choose who we protect. And that's
exactly what we were doing when we took mister Lewis
into custody and took him to the hospital to see
you know, people deciding to take action into their own
hands and then inflict damage to the hospital, burn police cars,
attack police and other emergency service workers just was unacceptable.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, and look, it's not okay. I know that all
of us probably felt that same level of anger and thought,
you know, you'd like to think of the kind of
justice that an alleged offender can be dealt. But it's
not our responsibility as a community to deliver that justice.
In fact, it's absolutely up to the courts now, so
we can't go rogue. Now. I do want to ask you.
(06:35):
We know that there's a report in the Australian newspaper
over the last twenty four hours by Liam Mendees reporting
that well that the little girl was the subject of
six child protection reports since mid March and was living
in what was described as a dangerous environment. That is
what sources familiar with the case told the Australian. Now,
(06:57):
according to the report by Liam Mendez, police may the
last notification to the Northern Territories Department of Children and
Families two days before she went missing in Alice Springs. Commissioner,
I know that you may not be able to comment
on specifics here, but I will ask is that the case.
Did the Northern Territory Police make that report to Children
(07:19):
and Families two days before?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yes, O, Katie.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I'm a little bit bound by legislative provisions that you
know don't allow me to give that type of information,
but probably want to assure you and your listeners. I
understand there's a huge amount of public interest in this case,
and there should be, and I just want to assure
the public that the entire circumstances around that case, for
the criminal matter and for the cronial matter, will be investigated.
(07:43):
So every circumstance around that will be investigated, and all
of those things will come out at the correct time,
in the correct process. So it's probably not something that
I can comment on at.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
The moment, Commission.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I know that, certainly we spoke to the minister responsible
for this department yesterday. She'd revealed on the show that
three staff members have now been stood down. There is
going to be an investigation to work out exactly what's
gone on. Now. I certainly respect what you've said, but
I know that it's reported in that article that police
are privately outraged at the inaction from the department in
(08:17):
relation to the most recent escalation in reports. I mean,
are you outraged that something could be reported to a
department and be ignored.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Yes, Look, Katie, we haven't officially disclosed any information in
relation to kumenjoin a little baby's history. I think my
role is to remain professional. We've got a statutory obligation
to report instances of child welfare and concern, and our
officers do.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
That and we do that regularly.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
So look, there may be times where we release reports
and we have vigorous conversation with the Department of Children
and Families, but that's a working relationship between us and them.
And now police are professional and come across incident and
then act in accordance with what they're required to do
under the APRON report those circumstances.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
So I guess from stepping away from this case, I
do just want to ask you more broadly. I mean,
in those situations where if there is a child that
police believe may be in danger, whether it's in Alice Springs,
whether it's here in dah and wherever it is, no
matter what your background is or where you come from,
that is something that then the police obviously notify children
(09:27):
and families about.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
We're statutory obliged to. So we're reporting officers under the
Act and we have an obligation to report that to
Department of Children and Families.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yes, all right, Commissioner, I won't ask you more questions
about that. I can see we're not going to get
very far because obviously you are respecting the laws and
that is fair enough. Now, I do want to just
touch on before I take you to the budget. I
do just want to touch on. You mentioned a moment
ago that there's a service today for an Aboriginal community
police officer who's passed away. Are you able to give
(09:58):
us any more detail about that.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yeah, so it was an Aboriginal liaison officer. Sorry, so
it's kumenjoy Sterling. He was one of our very first
Aboriginal liaison officers and Alice Springs, a very senior man
and unfortunately he passed away after a long ill illness,
but very well respected across the community of Alice Springs,
very well respected. I'm one of the first chairmen of
(10:20):
Lura Tippe and Ala Springs and deeply connected to the police.
So we'll have a presence of that funeral and I
just encourage if your listeners are down that way to
please join in with that service as well.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah, no doubt it will be well attended. I'm sure.
All right, Commissioner. I want to ask you about the
Northern Territory budget. We know that it was handed down
earlier this week, the government announcing a six hundred and
fifty four million dollar investment into the Northern Territory police.
They say it's going to fund more officers, new infrastructure
and expanded safety programs. Tell me, what impact do you
(10:50):
expect that these additional police officers this funding is going
to have. I know some of it's probably already there
and has been operational for a while.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Look hopefully a continued impact ka on bringing down crime.
It's a record police budget, the biggest police budget in history,
forty six million dollars, bigger than our budget last year.
I think it's important to note whilst there's funding for
new police officers, there's also additional funding above and beyond
that for the police Public Safety Officer program. We've talked
about that and that's an exciting development, with the first
(11:19):
squad of over twenty officers due to graduate in a
number of weeks in June. So what we will see
from that is more visible police, higher visible presence and
hopefully driving down a crime stats across the territory.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
As I understand that there's also some money in there
as part of that spend for housing and stations to
improve operational capacity, particularly in remote areas.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Absolutely, how big a difference will that make.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
A huge difference, Katie. So one of our problems is
getting police and keeping policing communities. We've been aware for
a long time that the infrastructure is aging, some of
it's not fit for purpose. We have legacy stations from
the intervention that just haven't been replaced. And this goes
towards giving our police what they deserve on communities to
be able to live and work within that community and
(12:02):
have a permanent presence. So it's very well welcome, yeah,
and it's going to assist us in filling those gaps
in the bush.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
I mean even when you're talking like obviously that infrastructure
is a really positive thing, but then when you're talking
about those additional officers and those police public safety officers,
like that's going to make a big difference, isn't it
to people when you're when you are out and about
and you see those public safety officers on the street.
I know there've been like there's been some criticism of
what kind of powers they may or may not have
(12:28):
and whether they're going to cross the line than being armed,
but hopefully it's like it's a positive impact that people
can see when they're out and about around the.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Place, Katie.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
I'm very very confident that they're going to be a
game changer for the Norn Territory Police and they're going
to give us that ability to be out there doing
that proactive work that we're just not being able to
get to all of the time at the moment.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah. Well, Northern Territory Police Commissioner Martin Dole, we'll leave
it there for this morning. Really appreciate your time. Thank
you very much for joining us on the show.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Thank you so much for having me Katie,
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