NT Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price on Alice Springs

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We have spoken extensively about the situation in Alice Springs,
which sent shockwaves around the country. Now, yesterday we learned
that three people from the Northern Territories Child Protection Department
had been stood down as the minister launches an investigation
into the events that led up to the death of
five year old Kumanjai Little Baby in Alice Springs. We

(00:22):
know the Australian newspaper had revealed that six notifications about
the baby's welfare were made to Child Protection to the
department in the six weeks before her disappearance. The report
said the department had failed to act on those notifications.
Now joining us on the line is Northern Territory Senator
Jacinta Namba jimper Price. She's also the Shadow Minister for

(00:46):
Small Business. Good morning to you, Jacinta, Good.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Morning Katie, and hello to all your listeners.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
Thank you so much for your time this morning. Senator,
I understand that Kumanjai Little Baby is your niece. How
are you and how is the family coping at the moment.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, it's been a really a really tough week this
week and you know, family is doing it tough. I
think some of the women, particularly you know, they're strong,
they're strong women, and they're sort of getting around each
other at the moment and involved in sorry business right now.

(01:29):
But you know, for me personally, I just I hope
this is the actual wake up call going forward that
we actually see the changes that need to happen and
the rest of the country pay attention to what I've
been warning about and talking about for many years now.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Sanator, you and I have spoken, you know, we've spoken
about issues of child protection, of terrible instances where children
have been in dangerous situations on the show before. I
think it's eight years ago that we were speaking on
this show very extensively about a little girl, a two

(02:10):
year old girl in Tenant Creek who had been sexually assaulted.
And really, sadly, it actually doesn't seem like much has
changed across the Northern Territory.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
No, no, that's right, and there is an absolute culture,
I believe, within the child protection system that needs to change.
I mean, the horror stories that I've heard, particularly from
many foster carers who are just sort of have been
beside themselves at times when their children have been removed

(02:46):
from them to be placed back in kin care, and
for those children to be retraumatized and then dragged out
of that situation again and given back to them as
foster parents when the circumstances could have been totally unavoidable.
And these so many stories like this that we don't
hear of, I mean, or the lack of action because

(03:06):
of the number of notifications that have been made with
regard to children, and then the circumstances turning out to
be horrific. And this is the worst of one of
those cases. But they're not isolated. That's the thing. These
aren't isolated cases and within the culture of the system itself,

(03:28):
because this concept of only Aboriginal people can take care
of abriaginal kids because of what occurred previously with a
solen generation should not apply here. It should be about
these children being in the care of people who are
going to love them, uphold their human rights, meet their needs,
make sure that they're taken care of, that they're not neglected,

(03:50):
that they're not exposed to predators, and that they can
live wholesome lives. That should be the priority. You know,
I'm sick to death of this fantasy about connection to
country and culture. Well, you know, baby Girl was involved
in dysfunction, and many, many kids lives are surrounded by

(04:12):
utter dysfunction, and so this concept of being having this
wonderful connection with country and culture is actually usually not
available to them at all, and so that shouldn't be
the priority. Saving their lives should be the priority. I mean,
I remember having meetings with Dale Wakefield, you know, when

(04:32):
labor first came to power all those years ago, stating
to her, look, you know the concerns of foster parents,
and her basically washing her hands of it, like not
wanting to have anything to do with it. And so
that culture has persisted and has been ingrained in these apartments.
And so I think, you know, what Robin K Hill
has done is the first step, but they made a

(04:53):
complete bloody overhaul. I think it's utter racism of low
expectations to keep treating Aboriginal kids differently to other children
in the system.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
Tell me, just sinterer. I know that there's been calls
for respect and time to allow the family to grieve
while this sorry business is underway, and look, I understand that,
but there are of course questions which need to be
asked at this point as well, and that's what we're
doing this morning. What was your reaction when you'd seen
this report in The Australian that six notifications about Kumanjai

(05:28):
Little Babies Welfare were made to the Child Protection Department
in the six weeks before her disappearance. I mean, the
report said the department had failed to act on the notifications.
Now I'm mindful here, like I get it that we're
you know, we could be drifting into a legal area
where we should not, so I want to be really
cautious of that. But what was your reaction, you know,

(05:50):
when you learned that this was the case.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
My reaction was a bloody knew it. I knew it,
you know, like I was what I was expecting to.
I knew at some point there would be an investigation
or journalists would be looking into this particular area, and
I knew it as soon as it was brought to

(06:14):
our attention. It was the worst part was it wasn't
a surprise. It was almost like an expectation that this
would be the case. And it should never it should
never been that. It should never have been that reaction.
And that's why I feel like for years I've been
tearing the hair out of my head and bashing my

(06:34):
head against the bloody brick wall to try to say, look,
this neats absolutely change. And like you said, we were
talking about a two year old being raped in Center Criqual.
You and I both know. I mean, as territorians, we
all know the copious amount of cases where children are
being subjected to horrendous acts of sexual violence. And it's

(07:01):
like we're so tolerant as a country we talk about,
you know, intolerance, that we are so damn tolerant, especially
in the Northern Territory, that this can continues to occur.
And it's almost like a like a sense of numbness,
a sense of being desensitized to these issues because of
where we all come from. But it's utterly heartbreaking, and

(07:24):
I know that the frustration exists here in our springs
right across the board, especially for those who felt like
they stood back and can't do anything about it, and
they know it to be true. And you're pilloried and
you're villified if you call these things out and you're
called racist, Well that bullshit has to stop. I'm sorry,
it has to stop, Katie.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
How do you recognize a country we get past that?
Because I, like I honestly believe you know, if like
we have to keep like, you've got to keep every
child safe. And I know that that it's maybe a
romanticized view that you know that it might not be
a situation where every child across every community or every

(08:06):
location in Australia, whether you black, white or brindle, is
going to be safe. But we've got to try at
the very least, like, how do we use the country
do that when, as you've just said, you know, and
you are an Aboriginal woman, how do we do that
if you raise this issue and you get called racist
if you speak about.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
It, Well, what we've got to start doing is actually
protecting allowing a voice for those vulnerable ones and stop
telling the bully boys you know that no, I'm sorry,
but you don't get to have a say on this.
It's got to be called out. Everyone's got to be
treated as Australian citizens instead of this division that we

(08:48):
see in our country literally apartheid, you know, and Aboriginal
people shouldn't be treated like protected species. Everyone's accountable, everyone
should be responsible and that that's the honesty of the
level of conversation that we need to absolutely have. We
can't get to the bottom of this if we can't
be honest about these circumstances going forward. I mean, it's

(09:13):
the nonsense has to stop. But you know, and those
that call out using this issue as political footballers, those
who start saying, you know, don't politicize the issue, are
and in fact effectively politicizing the issue and trying to
shut down debate. We've got to we've got to have
honest debate about all of this, and things have got

(09:33):
to change across the board. I mean, you know, I've
been calling for an inquiry into where funding is spent
because evidently closing the gap isn't bloody working. We hear
from our other Senator Mullenderry McCarthy. I don't know how
she can stand up there and talk about closing the
gap when it's going backward, completely backward under her leadership.

(09:56):
And the fact that now's not a time for talking, well,
if not now, then bloody well when And I'm sorry,
but as a family member to this baby, I say
now is the perfect time to address this issue because
if there was a white perpetrator involved, we'd be all
over it like a rash. There'd be bloody more protesters
on the streets. We don't see that because you've got

(10:17):
politicians who are leaders in this particular area hiding behind
other family said, don't talk about it. Bullshit, that is
shirking responsibility. Get out there and do your bloody job. Mullanderry.
That's what I have to say about this, and stop
stop trying to wash over it or cover over it,
or you know, like get real about this. I mean,

(10:39):
I'm sick of bearing my family. I'm sick of bearing
my family. It's got to stop, and especially the baby
is in my family for crying out loud.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
Now, look, we did certainly put in a request to
have her on the show. Unfortunately to know a vail
at this point, we do have Marian scrimdaw on the
show this morning after Tin. But I want to ask you, Senator,
do you see an inquiry is what's needed. You've been
calling for that for quite some time. Do you think
there needs to be a royal commission.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
Some sort of inquiry needs to take place. Yeah? You know,
people say we've had royal commissions and you know there
are probably recommendations that need to be applied which haven't
been applied. But previous royal commissions have not been very
specific with regard to these issues, and there's always been
this culture of cover up. You know, no, oh, let's

(11:27):
not do what. We don't want to spark racism. This
isn't about racism. This is about saving the lives of babies.
And you know, on one hand, you get people talking
about the disproportionate rate of Indigenous people incarcerated, so they
care more about the adults and incarceration, but they don't
care about the disportionate rate of Indigenous children being sexually

(11:49):
abused in this country or neglected. That should be the
utmost priority because if you address that, then that addresses
the rate of those being incarcerated. It's like it's common sense,
which people don't want to be a part of, especially
a particular form of leadership in this country. But we

(12:10):
do need investigation. We need to change when it comes
to leadership in Aboriginal organizations. And this is another issue
I've been banging on about that we shouldn't be allowing
for perpetrate people with violent histories to be in leadership
positions in this country because it suggests that we should
revere them and respect them, and it tells victims you're
actually not that important. But what it does do it

(12:34):
opens up the opportunity for people who don't have a
criminal history of violent history, perhaps even more women in
this case, to take on those leadership positions, and that
is what we need to start doing. And I've had
pushback from that over and over and over again, and
a minister who turns a blind eye. She's in control

(12:55):
of the Land Rights Act. I mean, I've raised that
as an issue. You know, land councils, why do they
accept that they can have someone who has had a
violent history to sit in a significant positions such as
chair because they hide behind the Land Rights Act and
the fit and proper person identification definition of that. Well,

(13:21):
come on, minister, you have the power to change that act,
So why don't you bloody well do it and step
an example of what we need going forward. I mean,
you know, we've had We've had the top end legal
service who had a chairperson with a violent history. We've
had so many different areas, and then they've been told

(13:41):
to step down because media have brought it to the
attention of territoriums. But why get there in the first place.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
It shouldn't be there at the cultural thinking. So before
I let you go, we know that there is going
to be a vigil in Alice Springs this afternoon. How
important is that, do you think when it comes to
processing this grief, you know, for the whole community.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
And I think, you know, the community rallied around and
came together on this particular issue, and which I'm very
grateful for. And you know, I know that a lot
of locals have been hit hard and the feeling the grief,
feeling the sadness, and so I hope it brings people together.
But I also hope that there are those who think

(14:28):
long and hard about how they think about these issues
and how the segregation needs to stop, and how the
infantilization of Aboriginal people needs to stop, and that we
all need to find accountability in all of this together

(14:49):
and finally actually stand up for this bullshit. And if
you actually do care for Aboriginal people, you know, call
out the nonsense when you see it and expect better
and demand and better so that more babies' lives can
be saved.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
Just sent a Namba. Jimper Price, Senator for the Northern Territory.
Always appreciate your time. Thank you very much for joining
us on the show.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Thank you Katie, thank you