September 10, 2026 • 47 mins
Katie Woolf was joined on the panel by Education Minister Jo Hersey, 360 Executive Producer Kathleen Gazzola and Opposition Leader Selena Uibo via the phone.
The panel discussed St John Ambulance contract negotiations, aged care rebate and hospital beds, maternity ward upgrades, teacher board registration appointments, tourist visa proposed changes and Jacinta Nampijinpa Price rumours of a move to QLD
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, it is Friday morning.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
It is time for the week that was. And joining
us live in the studio today, we have got the
Minister for Education and Training, Jo Hersey.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Good morning to you.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Good morning, Katie, and good morning, listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Lovely to have you in the studio.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We've got Kathleen Gazzola as well, our executive producer.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Good morning, Kat.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Morning.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And on the line from Catherine, we've got the opposition leader,
Selina Yubo.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Good morning.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
Good morning, Katie, and happy Friday to everybody.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Happy Friday.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I'll tell you what, I don't know whether anybody else
experienced this overnight, but a power outage in Stewart Park, Parap,
the city, Fanny Bay. If you were impacted, love to
hear from you this morning. Send us a text message.
Had a bit of a disrupted sleep, but I will
soldier on after the power outage. But I dare say
quite a large number of people were impacted, and it
was for about an hour overnight.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Power on Water saying.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
on the phone line overnight that they had some kind
of fault. So hopefully it's nothing larger with the system
and it was just a fault that was able to
be sorted out quite quickly. Now, just some other quick
breaking news. We know the Northern Territory Police have arrested
a 17-year-old who allegedly escaped from the Holtz Youth Detention
Centre on Wednesday evening. So just after 6.30, we reported
(01:12):
that this youth had allegedly escaped from that custody while...
remanded and fled into nearby bushland. Strike Force tried and
the dog operations, General Judy's, they ended up.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Well, catching this bloke. He'd evaded police and travelled to
Wat Air.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
So fortunately, they were able to recapture that young man. Now,
let's get into some of the issues of the week.
There has certainly been a lot happening. And we kick
the week off With some pretty terrible findings, we know
that two patients who collapsed and then waited on the
floor for up to six hours for an ambulance to
arrive in Darwin died partly due to those long wait times.
(01:52):
That is what the coroner has determined. So it was
reported over the course of the weekend that the Northern
Territory coroner, Elizabeth Armitage, released her findings last Friday into
the deaths of three patients.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
They were aged 75 to 89 years old.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
They died in January and February this year after experiencing
long ambulance wait times due to soaring demand. We know
the coroner found a delay in treatment for two of
the patients was determined to be a factor that contributed
to their death by the forensic pathologist. We spoke to
St John, to the CEO, Abigail Truen, earlier in the
(02:28):
week and certainly talked more about the need. And we
have on numerous occasions the need for really more ambulances
on our roads, the need for the contract for this
service to be finalised. But I really do want to
point out, I mean, the fact here in the Northern
Territory at the moment, you know, you want to be
able to age in the that you are able to
(02:54):
get the healthcare, you are able to get the treatment
that is required. And we know that St John do
an incredible job under what can be really difficult circumstances.
But if you've got ageing family members or you're ageing
yourself and you're thinking, should I fall and nobody be
able to come out to me for several hours? And
then heaven forbid, you wind up deteriorating and passing away,
(03:19):
as has happened with these two people, it is utterly
heartbreaking stuff.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
Yeah, I think, Katie, I think that is absolutely tragic
circumstances there. And, you know, acknowledge and sincere, you know,
sympathy and condolences to those families. And I do think
the paramedics every day are out there working hard and
doing a fantastic job.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
And this just leads on to, you know, I think,
you know... St.
Speaker 5 (03:46):
John's this year got an extra $ 10 million in their budget.
There are also negotiations going on at the moment.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
But this, St.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
John's have actually been on rolling contracts since 2016. So,
you know, back then in 2023, they were funded under
Labor $ 36.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
1 million and.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
This year they have had $ 68 million and obviously these
negotiations need to be finalised and that work is being
done at the moment. There's certainly detailed ongoing negotiations with
St John's and as we've said, we want to deliver
a new contract by the end of the year and
(04:31):
that work is ongoing and I think it's really important
to make sure that they get a contract to be
able to deliver the services that they need.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Well, it's absolutely essential.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
And, you know, as our population ages as well, you
want to make sure that people are able to stay
here in the Northern Territory as they age and not
fear that should something go wrong, they're not going to
be able to get the care or the treatment that
they need. And that's not only talking about this situation,
and we'll delve a little bit more into aged care
bed's in a little while. But I mean, Kathleen, it's
something that, you know, people are really concerned about the
(05:02):
situation with St John. It's not only these two patients
who then had passed away and we know that those
long wait times had contributed. But we've heard plenty of
stories on our phone lines about people, you know, when
someone's injured, they may be not able to get out there.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
And it's certainly not a criticism.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Of St John, but it's a criticism of the fact
that they need to be funded adequately.
Speaker 6 (05:25):
Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 7 (05:26):
I mean, it is a crazy situation that for five
years they've been on rolling contracts. I mean, how can
you operate a business like this in that situation? The
first point when we've heard demand has exponentially increased.
Speaker 6 (05:38):
Over the last five years.
Speaker 7 (05:40):
So it's sort of like, how was that justifiable over
that time? But also the I can't understand and I'm
not privy to, obviously, the discussions and negotiations and how
a contract like this works. But, I mean, St John's
has been operating in the Northern Territory for, what is it,
50 years or something?
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Yeah, since Cyclone Tracy.
Speaker 6 (05:58):
How can this contract take so long to set in
as well? Like, it's crazy.
Speaker 7 (06:02):
This happened, these deaths unfortunately happened in January and we
still haven't got this contract reached. Like, it's hard to
even wrap your head around as well.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, needed to happen yesterday, didn't it, Selina?
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Yeah, Katie. Firstly, of course, the families who've been affected
by the devastating loss of their loved ones, thinking of them,
of course, and those paramedics and the call takers and
all of those health workers who are first responders and
for every single day, the work that they do and
acknowledging that they are under enormous pressure. And I mean,
(06:35):
I think the really key thing here too, Katie, is
that St John's themselves has acknowledged that funding does not
fix a system-wide problem when we're talking about wait times
and capacity issues. I think that, you know, people are
waiting for this contract to land and that's going to
be critical to see what happens over the next five years.
But there needs to be some stronger points that the
(06:57):
CLP can point to to say that this is what
we're doing in the interim while we're finalising that contract.
We just don't hear that language from them. It's wait, wait, wait,
and we're doing the job, but no, we're not actually
going to do anything in the interim.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
So you don't think that $ 10 million was enough? Like
you don't think that stopgap that was provided, that $ 10
million to try and assist them, you don't think that
was enough?
Speaker 4 (07:17):
I think it was a stopgap, but I also think
that if St John's is saying themselves, Katie, that, you know,
funding isn't just the only issue, then I think the
government needs to listen.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yeah, certainly take that on board, you know, that there
are other elements to this. But what we did certainly
hear really loudly and clearly as well from Abigail True
and the CEO is that comparatively to a location like Cairns,
we've got so many less, you know, ambulances on the road.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
And when you, you know, when you think about that
and then you think.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
About the fact that our paramedics are then ramped at
the hospital for extended periods of time because our hospital's
under so much stress. I just feel like at the moment,
this health issue is the biggest issue that we've got.
Speaker 6 (07:58):
Absolutely.
Speaker 7 (07:59):
I mean, without a doubt, at the moment, health is
going to be the biggest issue at the next election
in two years' time, because let's face it, it is
such a complex area that does require a lot of
looking and funding at. And It's unfortunate for the CLP
that they've landed in this situation, but.
Speaker 6 (08:15):
They're the ones that are tasked with fixing it.
Speaker 7 (08:17):
When you're in government, you have to deal with it,
regardless of it being an issue from two decades ago.
Speaker 5 (08:21):
And I think also, let's be very clear that we
are still underfunded. And maybe, Selina, you can talk to
your mates in Canberra about this and advocate for the territory.
as also one of the previous health ministers in the
previous Labor government.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
But we are still.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
Underfunded $ 200 million from the federal government. And that, as
you said, Katie, we will talk about that further on
in our discussions. But on any given day, there is
pressures in health extra funding, we're still waiting for aged
care facility. You know, this is, we are absolutely making
(08:57):
sure that by the end of the year, this contract
will be, you know, finalised. But also, we want to
deliver funding certainty for the ambulance and make sure that.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Does that include like a boost in the actual funding
that they get, Jo? Like, are they going to be
funded adequately and.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Year on year?
Speaker 4 (09:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
I think that's what the negotiations are going to be around,
to make sure that they are adequately funded. As I said,
you know, we've already given them an extra $ 10 million
this year. But, you know, they need to have a contract.
They haven't had a contract since 2016.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:31):
And they need to make sure that they are funded
correctly and for what they need.
Speaker 7 (09:36):
I think at the moment they're... I mean, it's going
to have to be an increase, surely. Because if you need...
If you compare Cairns, that has, what was it, 15
ambulances for their population... and we regularly get compared to
Cairns as a similar jurisdiction, then we've only got five.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, it's pretty wild.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
So I just want to point out too, you know,
like in 2023, they were funded $ 36. 1 million.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Million under Labor.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
We have this year funded them $ 68 million.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
So that's a considerable uplift in their funding. But clearly
there needs to be, you know, more stability for their
contract ongoing.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Well, and I touched on this a moment ago.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
We also know one of the things that we have
spoken about at length when we talk about this discussion
in terms of, you know, the ambulances and being able
to get patients into Royal Darwin or whichever hospital it
may be, that we have also still got a number
of beds that are being... taken by aged care patients
and absolutely 80 of them yes and absolutely they need
(10:36):
somewhere to go and if the only place to go
is one of our major hospitals then that is where
they need to be however we are still waiting for
this aged care facility that has been announced the funding
has been announced the provider has been announced now we
sought out a contact where we actually sought an interview
with the federal aged care minister Sam Ray earlier in
(10:58):
the week That was knocked back, but they did provide
a statement and said, we know this project is important
to many older people and their families in the Northern
Territory and we'll have more to say soon. While projects
this complex can't come to life overnight, we're working closely
and cooperatively with all involved to move as quickly as possible.
The Albanese government's working closely with Auscare and the Northern
(11:21):
Territory government to progress this project as.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
A matter of priority.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
The work currently being done is essential to ensure that
we help to establish a viable, high-quality development that can
meet Darwin's long-term aged care needs. Now, he goes on
to say, this is a large and complex development in
a challenging construction environment and the project continues to progress
(11:45):
through the usual channels as we work through the application
and planning phase. The proposed use of the Northern Territory
Government-owned land near Palmerston Regional Hospital also requires careful coordination
across land design, infrastructure, approvals, costings and delivery arrangements. Now,
I understand that it takes time and it takes a
(12:06):
lot of work to get a project off the ground,
but this doesn't even take into consideration the amount of
time that it's going.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
To, will take to construct.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
I mean, Selina, we've been talking about this since I
believe since Files, he was the Health Minister.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Yeah, Katie, and I think that's where, when we talk
about that planning for health infrastructure, and I don't want
to sort of always kind of repeat this, but I
think it is so important for people to understand. It
does take time. It's frustrating. It takes time. It takes
sometimes years, and it just drives people crazy to see that.
But the planning, when it is done, you know, the
land servicing for that parcel of land was done years
(12:44):
ago when we were in government, when Labor was in.
to have that land service to have it ready to
go obviously now that the provider you know years later
provider's been announced it's great but getting it built and
then having it running and established from the year of
concept to the year of reality which we're still not
at is very frustrating and in the meantime we have
(13:06):
senior Territorians who are in a bit of limbo their
families or their carers their friends and their colleagues worried
about what the future is will look like in the
medium and the long term for those senior Territorians is
quite distressing. I actually have a very close family friend
who's in the Palmerston Hospital in one of those wards.
who's in that bit of limbo at the moment. And
(13:27):
it is really, it is quite sad, it is quite heartbreaking,
but there has to be that push in the plan.
And this is obviously Federal Labor Government as well as
the CLPNT Government. So I think ultimately people just want
to see that aged care facility built and opened up, operating,
so it can give those senior Territorians dignity and that
they can get access to those wraparound services Some of
(13:49):
those people don't have family members, Katie, and that's probably
the most heartbreaking story of all of that. Those who
do have family members, they're also waiting in limbo. So
I'm thinking of all of those people. But when we
have those decisions that are made and they take years
and years and years, it is frustrating. It is distressing.
But if we can get that on the ground, then
I don't care who bloody opens the ribbon as long
(14:10):
as we have Territorian's who are senior, can have that
dignity and be looked after in the aged care facility.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Look, the thing I worry about, though, is the longer
we take here, and I get it that that extensive
planning is required. You can't get a big project out
of the ground, you know, without planning extensively. But the
thing I worry about is the longer you wait, the
higher those construction costs go up. So are we going
to wind up in a situation where we need more money,
it takes forever, and is it going to be viable,
economically viable?
Speaker 1 (14:36):
You know, for the operator, it needs to happen. And
it needs to happen quickly.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
And also, Katie, the workforce. Like, are we, you know,
Joe's the Education Training Minister. Are we seeing simultaneous work?
in the education and training space to make sure we've
got more local aged care workers? Are we going to
be making sure we can rely on some of those
skilled migrants who come into the Northern Territory to help
deliver that really important aged and disability care services? So
(15:01):
it would be interesting to hear from Jo if that
piece of work is happening, and if not, could we
start to see it happen so we can be ready
to go once that aged care facility is open?
Speaker 5 (15:11):
I can absolutely guarantee you, Selina, that work is absolutely happening.
As the Minister for Education and Training, we've got a
skills plan which we're announcing very soon. And that is
about strengthening through schools, through those pathways into employment, getting
more tradies on the ground, as well as kids wanting
(15:31):
to go into higher ed and that as well. But
there is a huge piece working in that training sector
at the moment. But it this aged care issue that
we have has been obviously around, and as you said,
this goes back to Natasha Files, Selina was Health Minister,
it's been going on for a very, very long time.
(15:54):
We all need to be advocating to the federal government,
both sides of government, because the lands there, you know,
there's been the commitment for this 120 aged care facility
at Palmerston, waiting for the provider, you know, as I said,
the land's available. Let's get on with building it because
every single day there's 80 people on average in hospital
(16:17):
taking up beds that should be in an aged care
facility that then there's no beds for people that need
to go into, you know, into hospital for other issues.
You know, there was a ward opened up last week
that alleviates some pressure. But we, you know, we need to,
aged care people need to be in a facility that
is fit for purpose for them and to give them
(16:37):
the dignity to, you know, live a fitful life.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Well, and look, one of the other elements of this
discussion throughout this week has been the fact that, well, COTA,
they've sent an open letter to the Northern Territory's elected
representatives calling on them to stand up for older Territorians
who are facing growing pressure from the cost of private
health insurance and rising out-of-pocket health costs. Now, we spoke
(17:01):
to Sue Shearer from the Council of the Aging earlier
in the week and she did.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Not mince her words.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
They are unhappy about the fact that these insurance premiums
essentially are going to be, you know, it's going to
be changing and it's going to mean that this rebate
that they've been getting is.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Cut and they are not happy about it.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
And there are a lot of older Territorians wondering whether
it's worth their while, you know, continuing with that private
health coverage. But if they don't, then it's additional strain
on the public health system.
Speaker 6 (17:32):
Yeah, well, exactly.
Speaker 7 (17:33):
Then they're into Royal Darwin Hospital, that's double or triple bunking.
They've got private health so that they can access the
private hospital, which would be a bit more comfortable for
them if they were having a longer period stay.
Speaker 6 (17:46):
I mean, you know, as you said, this has been
going on for years and years.
Speaker 7 (17:50):
And yes, these things do take extra planning, but This
is what people hate when an issue like this that
is so important does get politicised from both levels of government. Obviously,
when Labor were in power, we had a coalition federal
government and, you know, there's always the to-ing and fro-ing
in that sense and now it's flipped on this and
then Each side can blame the other for not continuing
(18:11):
on or providing whatever documentation and all the rest of it.
And people just get absolutely sick of it.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
They get furious.
Speaker 7 (18:18):
So it feels like there isn't enough urgency getting this
up off the ground.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Look, it needs to happen. It needs to happen quickly.
And there's no doubt about that. Just before we do
take a quick break, I want to mention that it
is certainly the health department have confirmed this morning that
the maternity ward at Royal Darwin Hospital is moving to
a temporary new home as that much anticipated $ 500, 000 overhaul
begins on the ward's faulty air conditioner. Well, to begin with,
(18:46):
we were told it wasn't faulty, but it certainly bloody.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Was, that's for sure.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Yes, exactly, Katie. We were told by Steve Eddington, the
health minister, air con's fine, it's working well, and, you know,
the pregnant women who are having babies in the Darwin
Rural Hospital are.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Not to be believed.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
So there you go. Thank goodness it's being done now
and it's going to make a huge difference to our
new babies and our families and our staff who are
working in maternity in Darwin. So thank goodness it's happening
months and months and months after we asked the question.
to the Health Minister, but thankfully the truth has prevailed
and now that work's happening.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, and you know what, that's the main thing. We've
got to make sure that it gets sorted. You know,
I understand that it's a very old building. Nobody expects
that there's going to be no issues. within that building
because it is old and it's not fit for purpose.
And I understand then that's part of the discussion about
planning for the aged care facility, making sure that it is. But,
(19:40):
you know, nonetheless, you've got to make sure that it
is still up to a standard that, you know, that
people deserve. It's not even an expectation so much, but
it's like you'd be able to birth in the air.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Con.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
And I think also that's really important about the infrastructure
work that Chris Hoskins is actually doing right across the
territory to, you know, just see what needs happening. And
there is a plan that is being worked on at
the moment for, because it's not only health infrastructure. If
I want to talk about aging facilities, it's schools, it's everything.
(20:13):
You know, from self-government, it's been a long time since
there's been infrastructure upgrades and across many things. And I
think there's not been money spent upgrading infrastructure for a very,
very long time.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
And it's really important work that Chris is.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
Doing right across the health sector with those infrastructure needs.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Well, look, we're going to take a really quick break.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
When we come back, I want to change pace a
little bit and talk about these concerns that tourism operators and, well,
the industry.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
are raising.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
About these proposed federal government cuts to longer stay tourist
and working holiday visas. We'll talk more about that in
just a couple of moments. You are listening to Mix
104.9's 360. If you've just joined us this morning, on
the line from Catherine, we've got Selena Yubo, we've got
Kathleen Gazzola, my executive producer, and we've also got Joe Hersey.
(21:03):
the Minister for Education and Training. Now, there's been a
lot happening throughout this week. I say that every week
because it never ends for us, does it, Kathleen?
Speaker 1 (21:10):
No, it doesn't. It's no shortage of things.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
There's no shortage of things to talk about.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
And, well, look, the new city is making headlines around
the Northern Territory, and we spoke very extensively about this yesterday.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Is the fact that there is.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Some real concern from tourism operators and industry in relation
to the federal government's proposed cuts to longer stay tourists
and working holiday visas and that they could hurt the
Northern Territory economy. So we're talking here about backpackers, people
that come to the Northern Territory for a while. They
may work in our bars, our pubs, you know, our restaurants,
(21:46):
work picking mangoes and doing jobs like that.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Anyway, Western Australia's.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Tourism Council and really the Northern Territories, Top End Tourism,
et cetera, are all quite concerned now about the fact
that they're saying that backpackers are critical to regional tourism,
with many needing more than 12 months to travel across Australia.
And they're campaigning to retain the number and the length
of stay.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Of the visas.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Now, I get it that nationally there's discussion at the
moment about migration and the number of people coming to Australia,
moving here and, you know, people really needing homes and
there not being enough, you know, homes for Aussies, et cetera.
But we are talking about workforce and it's going to
have a big impact on us.
Speaker 7 (22:33):
I mean, yet again, it's southern Australia looking at, you know,
an overall picture and not considering what everyone else is
impacted rather than them just there. You know, backpackers will
go to these major centres of Sydney and Melbourne and
so on because it's, you know, that's the, the tourism
Australia thing, right?
Speaker 6 (22:51):
So they go there.
Speaker 7 (22:52):
And then If these visas get cut, they'll have to
ship off home. After they've spent those time in those
major centres, they then move into the regional areas. WA
initially kicked off a petition urgently requesting a review of
this proposed change, and the Northern Territory is in a
very similar position. It is going to absolutely decimate the
(23:12):
hospitality industry. Those tourism backpackers also then move into the
tourism operator situation.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
Yep.
Speaker 7 (23:19):
Picking, we already spoke to NT Farmers, Andrew Bourne, last
week when this was initially, I think, kind of touched on.
You know, it is just crazy that this is even
a consideration. It's tinkering around the edges of this whole
migration issue. The backpackers are not the ones that are
taking up the issues in the housing sector. Actually do
the hard work, Federal Minister. and look at the proper issue,
(23:40):
not what's going to then damage the economy more broadly.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Well, look, Luke Gosling has issued a statement to us
and said, I've been speaking with relevant ministerial colleagues about
the concerns being raised by the tourism sector. I'll continue
advocating for the territory and making sure our workforce and
tourism needs are understood and supported. Selina, I mean, he's
going to have to really push for us here, isn't he?
Speaker 4 (24:04):
Yeah, Katie, and this is one thing that, you know,
happy to support Luke and advocate for because this is
one area where, interestingly, we're on the same page, Territory
Labor and the CLP, around making sure we have migrant
workers here in the Northern Territory and understanding the ebbs
and flows of our tourism season, our agricultural businesses who
(24:24):
heavily rely on those seasonal workers, some of those federal
initiatives that are already in place with the PALM scheme, etc.,
I'm in Canberra next week, Katie, and this is something
I'm going to raise directly with Don Farrell in his portfolio.
So this is something I think, again, the rest of
Australia may have a certain view on numbers and population,
(24:46):
but the Northern Territory, we really do need to be
treated in a different way because we heavily rely on
those workers. And in my own electorate of Arnhem, I
know that some of my small businesses, particularly those relying
on tourism, really rely on those seasonal workers and spoke
to me about this just last week in one of
my patches as well, Katie. So this is really a
(25:08):
concern for the Northern Territory if it is to happen. Obviously,
it's sort of been flagged. There's been no formal changes
and whatnot, but the Northern Territory definitely needs to be
treated in a unique way for this. So I'm happy
to join forces, you know, if the CLP is on
that same page, supporting Luke and his advocacy as well.
to make sure that the Northern Territory is looked at
(25:29):
separately and that we can have, if this is to
go ahead, it's not confirmed yet, but if there are
any changes, that it doesn't affect our businesses and our family,
our small and medium family businesses really rely on holiday workers.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
It cannot happen.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I mean, I'm pleased to hear that, you know, that
you're prepared to work with the CLP. And, Jo, no
doubt this is something that you guys are going to
be pushing hard to not have come into effect for
the Northern Territory as well.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (25:58):
And it's great to hear, Selina, that when you're in Canberra,
you'll be advocating for that. I mean, whether I support
Luke Gosling or not's another thing, but he absolutely needs
to advocate very strongly for the Northern Territory.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
I mean, years ago... And so does the CLP government, Jo.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
So hopefully you get on the train with your portfolio
and start hambugging the ministers responsible in your federal portfolios
as well. That would be helpful too, because you're in government.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Yes, exactly. And we have been.
Speaker 5 (26:22):
But this is, you know, as Kathleen said before... we
are not Sydney or Melbourne. We are very different up here.
I know when I go to federal ministers' meetings, every
time I'm in front of them, I say, it is
very different here in the Northern Territory, whether that be
with tourism, whether it be with visas, whether it be
with education, it is a very different model up here.
(26:43):
And we need to make sure that Canberra understand that
our situation is very different when we lived on the
farm years ago, we relied on backpackers coming and working
on that farm, you know, and the agriculture industry and
tourism industry need these people.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Like, I just don't understand why these discussions, and I
understand that this policy has not been implemented yet, or
this change has not been implemented yet, but I just
don't understand why these discussions are not had.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Before you go down this path.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Like, actually speak to those sectors, to those industries, to
those regions that are going to be most heavily hit. Like,
I think surely if Albo actually spoke to Luke Gosling
and said, hey, mate, do you reckon this is going
to have an impact? I've no doubt that Luke would say, well, yeah,
it is actually going to have a big impact. Or
if he spoke to Marion Scrimgeour, if he spoke to.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Any of his elected members.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
in those regions that are going to be hit, that
they would actually say, oh, we might need to rethink
this for the regions.
Speaker 7 (27:40):
Yeah, so what's already happened is that they've slowed the
visa processing from less than a day to several months
and introduced a ballot system from some countries, which include China, Vietnam, India,
and they've paused new applications from China. 24 to 29
countries and doubled the price of visas up to $ 1, 000
instead of $ 500.
Speaker 6 (27:59):
So you're already making it hard.
Speaker 7 (28:00):
So, yeah, these are proposed changes of caps on the visa,
reducing the length of visa to six.
Speaker 6 (28:07):
Months from 12 months, removing the.
Speaker 7 (28:09):
Access to second, third WHM visas. So, yeah, there are
a few extra changes coming into effect. And, yeah, we're
still waiting to hear from the federal government as to
their entire plan. change to the system.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Look, we are going to take a quick break.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
When we come back, the Northern Territory Police Commissioner has
literally just issued a statement saying that he acknowledges the
findings which have been handed down today by the coroner
regarding the death of Senior Constable First Class Michael Dutrom.
I don't have the details of those coronial findings, but
we might try and have a little look into if
there is some of that info there and discuss further.
(28:46):
But there is certainly a lot on the agenda this morning.
So we'd love to hear from you. If you've got
something on your mind, feel free to send us a
message or give us a call.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Well, if you're going to give us a call, wait
till after 10 o'clock once Kathleen's finished her news.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
But send us a message 0499 711 360. You are
listening to Mix 104.9's 360. Now, if you've just joined
us in the studio this morning, we've got Minister for
Education and Training, Jo Hersey. We've got Kathleen Gazzola. And
on the line, we've got the Opposition Leader, Selina Yubo. Now,
we have just received a statement from the Northern Territory
(29:22):
Police Commissioner saying that the Northern Territory Police Force acknowledges
the findings handed down today by the coroner regarding the
death of Senior Constable.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
First Class Michael Dutram.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Commissioner Martin Dole, APM, said the organisation's thoughts remain with
Constable Dutram's family, friends and family. colleagues and says this
has been a long and difficult process for those closest
to Michael and our thoughts remain with them today. The
Commissioner also acknowledged that many current and former members of
the Northern Territory Police Force who have been affected by
(29:55):
Constable Dutram's death and the subsequent coronial process. Now, Kathleen,
I know that you're just having a look through those
findings at the moment.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
What can you tell us?
Speaker 7 (30:04):
So obviously, just to give a bit of background, Michael
Dutram was one of three officers who sadly took their
own life in 2022. And throughout his career, he'd faced
several traumas, including attempting to rescue a driver from a
burning car as a young constable, intense scrutiny over his
role in the arrest and allegations as well while he
(30:25):
was serving. So the coronial inquest was looking into the
pressures that he faced and the treatment that he specifically received.
The inquiry heard he had taken personal leave from his
posting as one of two officers while serving in Kintore,
a remote Central Australia community where he described feeling like
he was constantly on call and sleeping just a.
Speaker 6 (30:46):
Few hours per night.
Speaker 7 (30:48):
So the inquiry looked into all the things that he'd
suffered or experienced during his career and what kind of
assistance he either got or should have gotten while he
was in a struggling state because his family did tell
the inquiry that they really noticed a change in him
prior to taking his own life.
Speaker 6 (31:08):
So going through the... the findings of the coroner.
Speaker 7 (31:12):
There will be several recommendations in terms of what suggestions
his family want to be incorporated into assisting other officers.
Just quickly, I did see that the coroner with consultation
with his family, some suggestions that they want taken up
and perhaps sharing Michael's story during training of young constables
(31:33):
in terms of understanding the pressures that they're going to face.
So there will be extensive findings within the inquiry the
coroner has given in terms of improving the wellbeing and
looking after our frontline police officers, which there has already,
you know, rightly so, been some work already done by
the NT Police Force. And I think that's one of
(31:53):
the things that Commissioner Martin Dole has endeavoured to take
on once he took on that role.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Yeah, and he certainly said that in this statement, which
I'll take us through. But I do just want to
acknowledge how, like, that's really brave and really beautiful of
his family to want his story to be shared.
Speaker 7 (32:10):
Well, that was one thing that Carter suggested, that sharing
his story could assist as long as the family were
open to it, of course.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Well, gee, I mean, your heart breaks.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
For them.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
It breaks for every police officer this morning listening to that,
who he was friends with, who he worked with. You know,
our police do such an incredible job under what can
be such incredibly difficult circumstances. And, you know, sometimes, you know,
sometimes people feel like they can sort of use them
as a bit of a punching bag in different ways
(32:42):
when they get annoyed about something or have a crack,
you know, that something may not be working exactly the
way that they think it should be within the police force.
And I get that, you know, every job, all of
us are open to scrutiny at different times, but our
police do a really difficult, difficult job.
Speaker 7 (32:56):
And we know that out in those remote communities, there
is only one, two, three, several police officers who aren't
just serving as effect, you know, the police role. They
play so many different roles within that community as well.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Now, Commissioner Martindale has said that the wellbeing of Employees
remains a priority. He said in the lead up to
the release of the findings, we have put support measures
in place for our employees and encouraged anyone who may
be affected to access those services. He said additional wellbeing
resources have also been made available to support our people
during this period. And we recognise that today's findings may
(33:36):
be difficult for current and former employees, particularly those who
knew Michael personally or who were directly affected by by
the events surrounding his death. The Northern Territory Police Force
are going to consider the coroner's findings and any recommendations
arising from the inquest. Commissioner Dole saying we will take
the time necessary to review those findings properly and determine
(34:00):
any actions arising through our established governance process.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Joe, I know you and Selina are.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Literally just hearing this for the first time, but I
think we can all agree it's so incredibly important to
make sure that our police officers have the support that
they need.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (34:17):
And, you know, as I just said when we were
off air before, I talk to people about looking after
your mental health every day. And I think, you know,
there's been a lot of work done in this area
with the police force. But, you know, my heart goes
out to his family and how difficult that would have been,
you know, to relive all of that. And I think,
(34:38):
as you said, the police do an absolutely incredible job
each and every day. And I know that there's people
out there that will knock them every now and then,
but they really do do a fantastic job each and
every day on the front line when they put on
their uniform and walk out that door to go to work.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
They do not know what they are facing.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
No, they really don't. It's a tough job, isn't it, Selina?
Speaker 4 (35:00):
Yeah, Katie, I had the honour of meeting some of
Constable Drewcham's family members just briefly last year and they
really wanted to provide that support around what can be
done to improve mental health and wellbeing support for those
who are in uniform, but also those ancillary positions who
do the support, you know, the call takers who are
in the emergency call centres and those who are supporting
(35:25):
from the back as much as those who are in
the front line and serving in uniform. So I think
the bigger conversation and having the awareness has definitely changed
over the years. Over the years, mental health and wellbeing
should not ever be a shame job. It should always
be front and centre in all positions, but particularly those
who are in our frontline services to get that extra support.
(35:47):
So I think there could be some more mechanisms put
in place to support. And that's obviously kind of what
I've got from a bit of a statement from Police
Commissioner just put out today. But having, I think there
was a specific wellbeing unit that was being developed within
the police force. So it'd be good to hear kind
of where that's at, what could be boosted, what's happening
(36:10):
that could be tailored to those particularly remote and regional
police officers as much as our urban police officers as well.
So I think more and more people talking about it
is a positive. Always sad when it's come from something
so tragic. Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Look, we are going to take a quick break. You
are listening to Mix 1049's 360. It is the week
that was. And, well, there's a by-election this weekend, but
there's also some rumours going around about Jacinta Price.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
So we've got a bit to discuss still.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Plenty more coming your way right here on the week
that was. You are listening to Mix 1049's 360. And, look,
there's been a.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Lot happening this week. As I say, there always is.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
If you've just joined us in the studio, we have
indeed got Joe Hersey, the Minister for Education and Training,
We have got Selina Yubo on.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
The line in Catherine and we've got Kathleen Gazzola.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Now, before we talk about the Molka by-election and also
these rumours around Jacinta Nampajimpa Price, Jo, I do just
want to quickly ask you, unions are warning the Territory
Government's plan to remove mandatory teacher representation from the Teacher
Registration Board could open the door to political interference and
lower professional standards. So more than 900 people have signed
(37:23):
this petition calling for the legislation to be withdrawn. Is
this going to mean that we don't have teachers, principals,
parents on the teacher registration board?
Speaker 4 (37:32):
No.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
So I just wanted to clarify, Katie, on that. There
will be a couple of amendments to Clause 6, first
of all, to say that the minister must have regard
to the need for the board to have an appropriate
balance of skills and expertise. And there'll also be an
amendment to Clause 28, which means the board can delegate
its powers and functions directly except those relating to disciplinary
(37:56):
action proceedings and teacher registration. But in Clause 6, and
I think maybe, you know, I haven't... Brian from the
union hasn't reached out or anything, and I said to him,
you know, if he wants to give me a call, feel.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Free, because I don't think people have read the bill.
You know, in its entirety.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
So you're saying there will be, you will have teacher,
a principal, parent on that board?
Speaker 5 (38:23):
Absolutely, because clause six, number two states, a person appointed
as a member must have the professional skills and expertise
in one or more of the following areas. Education system,
that could be a teacher. School and student performance, that's
fairly self-explanatory. Teaching and learning practices. Workforce development. Law or
regulatory practices. corporate governments and any other skills or experience.
Speaker 6 (38:48):
But I mean, those three aren't specifically related to schools though.
Speaker 5 (38:52):
No, but this came about by joining TRB and NTBOS
together for creating efficiencies. All boards were looked at when
we came into government and TRB will still be doing
the registering of teachers and things like that. But this
just means that you have a stronger skills-based board. And
(39:13):
I said the other day, Skills, I'm not talking about,
you know, vet and training and things like that. I'm
talking about, you know, there'll be somebody with strong governance,
somebody with maybe a law degree. You still want that
teacher representation.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
You, you know, that people can, uh, education department will
put it out. People can apply to be on the board.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
So what's the reason for the change? Like if it's
not broken, what are you trying to fix?
Speaker 5 (39:33):
Well, the thing is it was about creating efficiencies. So
one board had 11, um, Selina, we were left with
a nearly $ 11 billion debt.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
How much are they getting paid?
Speaker 4 (39:47):
There's not a final amount of money. The functions of
the NC Board of Studies and the Teacher Registration Board
are clearly very different. So merging them together, one, doesn't
make sense. Two, will create more inefficiencies because you've got
multiple functions of both of those two separate entities, then
(40:08):
mixed all in together, and then... Making a change that
the union, the experts who cover the whole of the
Northern Territory when it comes to education and ignoring what
they are asking for, those clear guarantees that there will
be teachers, parents, those with diverse education experience, like in
(40:28):
a remote sense, are removed from the current legislation when
there has been no one who has called for that.
Why are you doing it?
Speaker 5 (40:36):
There has not been anyone that hasn't called for it.
When we first got in, there were people from the
registration board that actually have, you know, they were ringing
up in tears because they couldn't actually get their registration board.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Tranche 1 actually changed that.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
So you removed teachers from the teacher registration board, the
one professional.
Speaker 5 (40:53):
Body that makes sure that it is not diluted by having.
Speaker 4 (40:58):
Less professionals making sure that teachers are the highest quality
possible in the Northern Territory. Don't our students and our
families deserve that?
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Are we going to end up in a situation, Jo,
where some people are getting the tick off to be
teachers that aren't fully qualified?
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Because that was the concern.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
That was raised. Absolutely not. Absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
I guess the issue I always have or the worry
I always have when legislation changes like this is, you know,
some may say, OK, it's all fine and good while
Jo Hersey is the Education Minister because I feel like
she's going to be fair and equitable in terms of
who she puts on that board or who she approves.
But what happens if you get some tyrant that's on
there that goes, oh, well, the legislation means that I
can tick off whoever I want?
Speaker 3 (41:37):
This is a statutory board. A statutory board right across Australia.
Speaker 5 (41:43):
The thing is that it would be that the minister
appoint the chair of that board. What we are saying
in clause 6.2 is that those professional skills and expertise
in those areas that I read out before still are
all covered. So people can, you can get the teacher
that's applying to be on the board, you can get
the principal that's applying to be on the board. There'll
(42:04):
be a number of people that will apply to be
on the board, but there will be a skill set
and strength in it.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
But they could get pipped out by a lawyer or
somebody else instead.
Speaker 7 (42:12):
Yes, as long as those skills are considered, it's taking
away the mandatory of a teacher or a principal or family.
Speaker 6 (42:19):
On there, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (42:21):
It is.
Speaker 5 (42:22):
A person appointed as a member must have the professional
skills and expertise.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
And I went over this the other day. Education system.
You must... That clearly... I mean, our education system is
a teacher. It's already working effectively. Why change it?
Speaker 5 (42:37):
It wasn't working effectively, Selina, so it is about creating efficiencies.
Speaker 4 (42:40):
Look, so you're saying that for people who are on
the board because of their profession and the mandated guarantee
that we have teachers and principals and those who are
working on the ground and in the field is not working.
So their advice to the board, their professionalism in providing
independent advice in that process for teacher registration is is
not working. Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 3 (43:01):
No, that's not what I'm saying at all.
Speaker 5 (43:03):
We are creating efficiencies by bringing these two boards together
and there will absolutely be strengthening of skills in this area.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
You don't need two really large boards.
Speaker 4 (43:14):
But they do two different things, Jo. Completely different focuses.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
We are going to have to just take a change
of pace for about two minutes. That's all we've got
left because, Jo, I want to ask you first off,
Is Senator Jacinta Nampajimpa Price considering a tilt at a
Queensland lower house seat at the next federal election? That
is what The Australian's reporting today.
Speaker 5 (43:37):
I did read that, Katie, and we have annual conference
this weekend. I will see Senator Price and I will
absolutely ask the question.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
I think it is just, you.
Speaker 5 (43:46):
Know, every now and then there's all these rumours that
come out. I think it is absolutely rumours and scuttlebutt
out there. I don't I do not believe that there
is any truth in it. But I shall ask the
question this weekend.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Well, and I think she'd said no. She's a strong
advocate for the territory. But, you know, when there's smoke,
there's fire sometimes, isn't there, Kathleen?
Speaker 5 (44:06):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (44:08):
It's sort of like it's got to come from somewhere.
You don't just pull it out of anywhere.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
And you never know. You never know. Although one thing,
I'll say where there's smoke, there's fire. However, in politics,
how many rumours have you heard over the years? I've
certainly heard a lot.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
There's plenty of smoke.
Speaker 5 (44:20):
Well, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Hey, but before we all go, Selina, of course, the
Mulcah by-election this weekend. How's it looking out there? I mean,
there's an independent, of course, and an ALP candidate. I
know some people a bit dirty at the CLP, Jo,
for not running anyone.
Speaker 5 (44:36):
Look, I think under the circumstances, there's certainly been a
lot of work by the Chief Minister and Olly Carson
out there with Ruritinga and Gumaj to you know, on
the work of Nullarmboy moving forward out of there.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
And, you know, I.
Speaker 5 (44:52):
Wish both those people the best for the election tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
You're obviously heading out there, Selina, are you?
Speaker 4 (44:58):
I'll be in Nullarmboy tomorrow for the end of the by-election, definitely.
But it is a huge slap in the face, Katie,
that the CLP, the sitting government, does not care about
the East Arnhem region, particularly with such a critical time
for the transition for Nuland Boys. I think that's definitely
going to change quite a lot of views. or the
CLP government, if they think they're doing enough work. That's
(45:19):
definitely not what.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
There is a lot of work happening out there, Selina,
and I don't really think it's a.
Speaker 4 (45:23):
Not running a candidate in a by-election is an absolutely
honest way of showing you don't care about a region
or a town.
Speaker 7 (45:31):
I mean, odds will think that Labor picks it up,
so Selina's got an extra member in her team, potentially,
going to six.
Speaker 6 (45:36):
How are you.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Feeling about that?
Speaker 4 (45:38):
We're working hard. We've got to work hard until the
6pm deadline on Saturday, Katie, but... If we get Yerawah
McGrath in as the Labor candidate and the sitting member
for Moorka, it'll be fantastic news for the region. He's
grown up in the region. He works in the region.
He's growing his family here. But he can be a
strong voice for Moorka, but he'll have the Labor team
(46:00):
directly behind him as well.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
To advocate for the region.
Speaker 5 (46:03):
And just a reminder for the listeners out there that
in the 2024 election, Labor did not have a candidate,
so they clearly found one this time.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
You two are firing up now at the end. I
should have started this discussion earlier.
Speaker 4 (46:16):
You started it with Katie. We didn't even follow the
education straight away.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Selina Yubo, the opposition leader. Good to catch up with
you this morning. Thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 4 (46:27):
Thank you so much. And Katie, there was R U OK?
Day yesterday. So, you know, we can do that every
day of the year. Just check in on your mates
and your colleagues, your family and your friends and strangers alike.
So make sure we look after each other.
Speaker 6 (46:39):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
Thanks, Selina.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
Thanks for your time. Jo Hersey, the Minister for Education
and Training. Thank you so much for your time this morning.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
Thank you very much, Katie, and have a good weekend.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
Yep, you too.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
And Kathleen Gazzola, don't you go anywhere. We'll be getting
the latest in local news with you in just a moment.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Thank you. You are listening to Mix 104.9's 360. That
was The Week That Was.
Well, it is Friday morning.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
It is time for the week that was. And joining
us live in the studio today, we have got the
Minister for Education and Training, Jo Hersey.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Good morning to you.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Good morning, Katie, and good morning, listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Lovely to have you in the studio.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We've got Kathleen Gazzola as well, our executive producer.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Good morning, Kat.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Morning.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And on the line from Catherine, we've got the opposition leader,
Selina Yubo.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Good morning.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
Good morning, Katie, and happy Friday to everybody.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Happy Friday.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I'll tell you what, I don't know whether anybody else
experienced this overnight, but a power outage in Stewart Park, Parap,
the city, Fanny Bay. If you were impacted, love to
hear from you this morning. Send us a text message.
Had a bit of a disrupted sleep, but I will
soldier on after the power outage. But I dare say
quite a large number of people were impacted, and it
was for about an hour overnight.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Power on Water saying.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
on the phone line overnight that they had some kind
of fault. So hopefully it's nothing larger with the system
and it was just a fault that was able to
be sorted out quite quickly. Now, just some other quick
breaking news. We know the Northern Territory Police have arrested
a 17-year-old who allegedly escaped from the Holtz Youth Detention
Centre on Wednesday evening. So just after 6.30, we reported
(01:12):
that this youth had allegedly escaped from that custody while...
remanded and fled into nearby bushland. Strike Force tried and
the dog operations, General Judy's, they ended up.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Well, catching this bloke. He'd evaded police and travelled to
Wat Air.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
So fortunately, they were able to recapture that young man. Now,
let's get into some of the issues of the week.
There has certainly been a lot happening. And we kick
the week off With some pretty terrible findings, we know
that two patients who collapsed and then waited on the
floor for up to six hours for an ambulance to
arrive in Darwin died partly due to those long wait times.
(01:52):
That is what the coroner has determined. So it was
reported over the course of the weekend that the Northern
Territory coroner, Elizabeth Armitage, released her findings last Friday into
the deaths of three patients.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
They were aged 75 to 89 years old.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
They died in January and February this year after experiencing
long ambulance wait times due to soaring demand. We know
the coroner found a delay in treatment for two of
the patients was determined to be a factor that contributed
to their death by the forensic pathologist. We spoke to
St John, to the CEO, Abigail Truen, earlier in the
(02:28):
week and certainly talked more about the need. And we
have on numerous occasions the need for really more ambulances
on our roads, the need for the contract for this
service to be finalised. But I really do want to
point out, I mean, the fact here in the Northern
Territory at the moment, you know, you want to be
able to age in the that you are able to
(02:54):
get the healthcare, you are able to get the treatment
that is required. And we know that St John do
an incredible job under what can be really difficult circumstances.
But if you've got ageing family members or you're ageing
yourself and you're thinking, should I fall and nobody be
able to come out to me for several hours? And
then heaven forbid, you wind up deteriorating and passing away,
(03:19):
as has happened with these two people, it is utterly
heartbreaking stuff.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
Yeah, I think, Katie, I think that is absolutely tragic
circumstances there. And, you know, acknowledge and sincere, you know,
sympathy and condolences to those families. And I do think
the paramedics every day are out there working hard and
doing a fantastic job.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
And this just leads on to, you know, I think,
you know... St.
Speaker 5 (03:46):
John's this year got an extra $ 10 million in their budget.
There are also negotiations going on at the moment.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
But this, St.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
John's have actually been on rolling contracts since 2016. So,
you know, back then in 2023, they were funded under
Labor $ 36.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
1 million and.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
This year they have had $ 68 million and obviously these
negotiations need to be finalised and that work is being
done at the moment. There's certainly detailed ongoing negotiations with
St John's and as we've said, we want to deliver
a new contract by the end of the year and
(04:31):
that work is ongoing and I think it's really important
to make sure that they get a contract to be
able to deliver the services that they need.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Well, it's absolutely essential.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
And, you know, as our population ages as well, you
want to make sure that people are able to stay
here in the Northern Territory as they age and not
fear that should something go wrong, they're not going to
be able to get the care or the treatment that
they need. And that's not only talking about this situation,
and we'll delve a little bit more into aged care
bed's in a little while. But I mean, Kathleen, it's
something that, you know, people are really concerned about the
(05:02):
situation with St John. It's not only these two patients
who then had passed away and we know that those
long wait times had contributed. But we've heard plenty of
stories on our phone lines about people, you know, when
someone's injured, they may be not able to get out there.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
And it's certainly not a criticism.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Of St John, but it's a criticism of the fact
that they need to be funded adequately.
Speaker 6 (05:25):
Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 7 (05:26):
I mean, it is a crazy situation that for five
years they've been on rolling contracts. I mean, how can
you operate a business like this in that situation? The
first point when we've heard demand has exponentially increased.
Speaker 6 (05:38):
Over the last five years.
Speaker 7 (05:40):
So it's sort of like, how was that justifiable over
that time? But also the I can't understand and I'm
not privy to, obviously, the discussions and negotiations and how
a contract like this works. But, I mean, St John's
has been operating in the Northern Territory for, what is it,
50 years or something?
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Yeah, since Cyclone Tracy.
Speaker 6 (05:58):
How can this contract take so long to set in
as well? Like, it's crazy.
Speaker 7 (06:02):
This happened, these deaths unfortunately happened in January and we
still haven't got this contract reached. Like, it's hard to
even wrap your head around as well.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, needed to happen yesterday, didn't it, Selina?
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Yeah, Katie. Firstly, of course, the families who've been affected
by the devastating loss of their loved ones, thinking of them,
of course, and those paramedics and the call takers and
all of those health workers who are first responders and
for every single day, the work that they do and
acknowledging that they are under enormous pressure. And I mean,
(06:35):
I think the really key thing here too, Katie, is
that St John's themselves has acknowledged that funding does not
fix a system-wide problem when we're talking about wait times
and capacity issues. I think that, you know, people are
waiting for this contract to land and that's going to
be critical to see what happens over the next five years.
But there needs to be some stronger points that the
(06:57):
CLP can point to to say that this is what
we're doing in the interim while we're finalising that contract.
We just don't hear that language from them. It's wait, wait, wait,
and we're doing the job, but no, we're not actually
going to do anything in the interim.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
So you don't think that $ 10 million was enough? Like
you don't think that stopgap that was provided, that $ 10
million to try and assist them, you don't think that
was enough?
Speaker 4 (07:17):
I think it was a stopgap, but I also think
that if St John's is saying themselves, Katie, that, you know,
funding isn't just the only issue, then I think the
government needs to listen.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yeah, certainly take that on board, you know, that there
are other elements to this. But what we did certainly
hear really loudly and clearly as well from Abigail True
and the CEO is that comparatively to a location like Cairns,
we've got so many less, you know, ambulances on the road.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
And when you, you know, when you think about that
and then you think.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
About the fact that our paramedics are then ramped at
the hospital for extended periods of time because our hospital's
under so much stress. I just feel like at the moment,
this health issue is the biggest issue that we've got.
Speaker 6 (07:58):
Absolutely.
Speaker 7 (07:59):
I mean, without a doubt, at the moment, health is
going to be the biggest issue at the next election
in two years' time, because let's face it, it is
such a complex area that does require a lot of
looking and funding at. And It's unfortunate for the CLP
that they've landed in this situation, but.
Speaker 6 (08:15):
They're the ones that are tasked with fixing it.
Speaker 7 (08:17):
When you're in government, you have to deal with it,
regardless of it being an issue from two decades ago.
Speaker 5 (08:21):
And I think also, let's be very clear that we
are still underfunded. And maybe, Selina, you can talk to
your mates in Canberra about this and advocate for the territory.
as also one of the previous health ministers in the
previous Labor government.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
But we are still.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
Underfunded $ 200 million from the federal government. And that, as
you said, Katie, we will talk about that further on
in our discussions. But on any given day, there is
pressures in health extra funding, we're still waiting for aged
care facility. You know, this is, we are absolutely making
(08:57):
sure that by the end of the year, this contract
will be, you know, finalised. But also, we want to
deliver funding certainty for the ambulance and make sure that.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Does that include like a boost in the actual funding
that they get, Jo? Like, are they going to be
funded adequately and.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Year on year?
Speaker 4 (09:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
I think that's what the negotiations are going to be around,
to make sure that they are adequately funded. As I said,
you know, we've already given them an extra $ 10 million
this year. But, you know, they need to have a contract.
They haven't had a contract since 2016.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:31):
And they need to make sure that they are funded
correctly and for what they need.
Speaker 7 (09:36):
I think at the moment they're... I mean, it's going
to have to be an increase, surely. Because if you need...
If you compare Cairns, that has, what was it, 15
ambulances for their population... and we regularly get compared to
Cairns as a similar jurisdiction, then we've only got five.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, it's pretty wild.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
So I just want to point out too, you know,
like in 2023, they were funded $ 36. 1 million.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Million under Labor.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
We have this year funded them $ 68 million.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
So that's a considerable uplift in their funding. But clearly
there needs to be, you know, more stability for their
contract ongoing.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Well, and I touched on this a moment ago.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
We also know one of the things that we have
spoken about at length when we talk about this discussion
in terms of, you know, the ambulances and being able
to get patients into Royal Darwin or whichever hospital it
may be, that we have also still got a number
of beds that are being... taken by aged care patients
and absolutely 80 of them yes and absolutely they need
(10:36):
somewhere to go and if the only place to go
is one of our major hospitals then that is where
they need to be however we are still waiting for
this aged care facility that has been announced the funding
has been announced the provider has been announced now we
sought out a contact where we actually sought an interview
with the federal aged care minister Sam Ray earlier in
(10:58):
the week That was knocked back, but they did provide
a statement and said, we know this project is important
to many older people and their families in the Northern
Territory and we'll have more to say soon. While projects
this complex can't come to life overnight, we're working closely
and cooperatively with all involved to move as quickly as possible.
The Albanese government's working closely with Auscare and the Northern
(11:21):
Territory government to progress this project as.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
A matter of priority.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
The work currently being done is essential to ensure that
we help to establish a viable, high-quality development that can
meet Darwin's long-term aged care needs. Now, he goes on
to say, this is a large and complex development in
a challenging construction environment and the project continues to progress
(11:45):
through the usual channels as we work through the application
and planning phase. The proposed use of the Northern Territory
Government-owned land near Palmerston Regional Hospital also requires careful coordination
across land design, infrastructure, approvals, costings and delivery arrangements. Now,
I understand that it takes time and it takes a
(12:06):
lot of work to get a project off the ground,
but this doesn't even take into consideration the amount of
time that it's going.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
To, will take to construct.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
I mean, Selina, we've been talking about this since I
believe since Files, he was the Health Minister.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Yeah, Katie, and I think that's where, when we talk
about that planning for health infrastructure, and I don't want
to sort of always kind of repeat this, but I
think it is so important for people to understand. It
does take time. It's frustrating. It takes time. It takes
sometimes years, and it just drives people crazy to see that.
But the planning, when it is done, you know, the
land servicing for that parcel of land was done years
(12:44):
ago when we were in government, when Labor was in.
to have that land service to have it ready to
go obviously now that the provider you know years later
provider's been announced it's great but getting it built and
then having it running and established from the year of
concept to the year of reality which we're still not
at is very frustrating and in the meantime we have
(13:06):
senior Territorians who are in a bit of limbo their
families or their carers their friends and their colleagues worried
about what the future is will look like in the
medium and the long term for those senior Territorians is
quite distressing. I actually have a very close family friend
who's in the Palmerston Hospital in one of those wards.
who's in that bit of limbo at the moment. And
(13:27):
it is really, it is quite sad, it is quite heartbreaking,
but there has to be that push in the plan.
And this is obviously Federal Labor Government as well as
the CLPNT Government. So I think ultimately people just want
to see that aged care facility built and opened up, operating,
so it can give those senior Territorians dignity and that
they can get access to those wraparound services Some of
(13:49):
those people don't have family members, Katie, and that's probably
the most heartbreaking story of all of that. Those who
do have family members, they're also waiting in limbo. So
I'm thinking of all of those people. But when we
have those decisions that are made and they take years
and years and years, it is frustrating. It is distressing.
But if we can get that on the ground, then
I don't care who bloody opens the ribbon as long
(14:10):
as we have Territorian's who are senior, can have that
dignity and be looked after in the aged care facility.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Look, the thing I worry about, though, is the longer
we take here, and I get it that that extensive
planning is required. You can't get a big project out
of the ground, you know, without planning extensively. But the
thing I worry about is the longer you wait, the
higher those construction costs go up. So are we going
to wind up in a situation where we need more money,
it takes forever, and is it going to be viable,
economically viable?
Speaker 1 (14:36):
You know, for the operator, it needs to happen. And
it needs to happen quickly.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
And also, Katie, the workforce. Like, are we, you know,
Joe's the Education Training Minister. Are we seeing simultaneous work?
in the education and training space to make sure we've
got more local aged care workers? Are we going to
be making sure we can rely on some of those
skilled migrants who come into the Northern Territory to help
deliver that really important aged and disability care services? So
(15:01):
it would be interesting to hear from Jo if that
piece of work is happening, and if not, could we
start to see it happen so we can be ready
to go once that aged care facility is open?
Speaker 5 (15:11):
I can absolutely guarantee you, Selina, that work is absolutely happening.
As the Minister for Education and Training, we've got a
skills plan which we're announcing very soon. And that is
about strengthening through schools, through those pathways into employment, getting
more tradies on the ground, as well as kids wanting
(15:31):
to go into higher ed and that as well. But
there is a huge piece working in that training sector
at the moment. But it this aged care issue that
we have has been obviously around, and as you said,
this goes back to Natasha Files, Selina was Health Minister,
it's been going on for a very, very long time.
(15:54):
We all need to be advocating to the federal government,
both sides of government, because the lands there, you know,
there's been the commitment for this 120 aged care facility
at Palmerston, waiting for the provider, you know, as I said,
the land's available. Let's get on with building it because
every single day there's 80 people on average in hospital
(16:17):
taking up beds that should be in an aged care
facility that then there's no beds for people that need
to go into, you know, into hospital for other issues.
You know, there was a ward opened up last week
that alleviates some pressure. But we, you know, we need to,
aged care people need to be in a facility that
is fit for purpose for them and to give them
(16:37):
the dignity to, you know, live a fitful life.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Well, and look, one of the other elements of this
discussion throughout this week has been the fact that, well, COTA,
they've sent an open letter to the Northern Territory's elected
representatives calling on them to stand up for older Territorians
who are facing growing pressure from the cost of private
health insurance and rising out-of-pocket health costs. Now, we spoke
(17:01):
to Sue Shearer from the Council of the Aging earlier
in the week and she did.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Not mince her words.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
They are unhappy about the fact that these insurance premiums
essentially are going to be, you know, it's going to
be changing and it's going to mean that this rebate
that they've been getting is.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Cut and they are not happy about it.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
And there are a lot of older Territorians wondering whether
it's worth their while, you know, continuing with that private
health coverage. But if they don't, then it's additional strain
on the public health system.
Speaker 6 (17:32):
Yeah, well, exactly.
Speaker 7 (17:33):
Then they're into Royal Darwin Hospital, that's double or triple bunking.
They've got private health so that they can access the
private hospital, which would be a bit more comfortable for
them if they were having a longer period stay.
Speaker 6 (17:46):
I mean, you know, as you said, this has been
going on for years and years.
Speaker 7 (17:50):
And yes, these things do take extra planning, but This
is what people hate when an issue like this that
is so important does get politicised from both levels of government. Obviously,
when Labor were in power, we had a coalition federal
government and, you know, there's always the to-ing and fro-ing
in that sense and now it's flipped on this and
then Each side can blame the other for not continuing
(18:11):
on or providing whatever documentation and all the rest of it.
And people just get absolutely sick of it.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
They get furious.
Speaker 7 (18:18):
So it feels like there isn't enough urgency getting this
up off the ground.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Look, it needs to happen. It needs to happen quickly.
And there's no doubt about that. Just before we do
take a quick break, I want to mention that it
is certainly the health department have confirmed this morning that
the maternity ward at Royal Darwin Hospital is moving to
a temporary new home as that much anticipated $ 500, 000 overhaul
begins on the ward's faulty air conditioner. Well, to begin with,
(18:46):
we were told it wasn't faulty, but it certainly bloody.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Was, that's for sure.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Yes, exactly, Katie. We were told by Steve Eddington, the
health minister, air con's fine, it's working well, and, you know,
the pregnant women who are having babies in the Darwin
Rural Hospital are.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Not to be believed.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
So there you go. Thank goodness it's being done now
and it's going to make a huge difference to our
new babies and our families and our staff who are
working in maternity in Darwin. So thank goodness it's happening
months and months and months after we asked the question.
to the Health Minister, but thankfully the truth has prevailed
and now that work's happening.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, and you know what, that's the main thing. We've
got to make sure that it gets sorted. You know,
I understand that it's a very old building. Nobody expects
that there's going to be no issues. within that building
because it is old and it's not fit for purpose.
And I understand then that's part of the discussion about
planning for the aged care facility, making sure that it is. But,
(19:40):
you know, nonetheless, you've got to make sure that it
is still up to a standard that, you know, that
people deserve. It's not even an expectation so much, but
it's like you'd be able to birth in the air.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Con.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
And I think also that's really important about the infrastructure
work that Chris Hoskins is actually doing right across the
territory to, you know, just see what needs happening. And
there is a plan that is being worked on at
the moment for, because it's not only health infrastructure. If
I want to talk about aging facilities, it's schools, it's everything.
(20:13):
You know, from self-government, it's been a long time since
there's been infrastructure upgrades and across many things. And I
think there's not been money spent upgrading infrastructure for a very,
very long time.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
And it's really important work that Chris is.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
Doing right across the health sector with those infrastructure needs.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Well, look, we're going to take a really quick break.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
When we come back, I want to change pace a
little bit and talk about these concerns that tourism operators and, well,
the industry.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
are raising.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
About these proposed federal government cuts to longer stay tourist
and working holiday visas. We'll talk more about that in
just a couple of moments. You are listening to Mix
104.9's 360. If you've just joined us this morning, on
the line from Catherine, we've got Selena Yubo, we've got
Kathleen Gazzola, my executive producer, and we've also got Joe Hersey.
(21:03):
the Minister for Education and Training. Now, there's been a
lot happening throughout this week. I say that every week
because it never ends for us, does it, Kathleen?
Speaker 1 (21:10):
No, it doesn't. It's no shortage of things.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
There's no shortage of things to talk about.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
And, well, look, the new city is making headlines around
the Northern Territory, and we spoke very extensively about this yesterday.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Is the fact that there is.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Some real concern from tourism operators and industry in relation
to the federal government's proposed cuts to longer stay tourists
and working holiday visas and that they could hurt the
Northern Territory economy. So we're talking here about backpackers, people
that come to the Northern Territory for a while. They
may work in our bars, our pubs, you know, our restaurants,
(21:46):
work picking mangoes and doing jobs like that.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Anyway, Western Australia's.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Tourism Council and really the Northern Territories, Top End Tourism,
et cetera, are all quite concerned now about the fact
that they're saying that backpackers are critical to regional tourism,
with many needing more than 12 months to travel across Australia.
And they're campaigning to retain the number and the length
of stay.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Of the visas.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Now, I get it that nationally there's discussion at the
moment about migration and the number of people coming to Australia,
moving here and, you know, people really needing homes and
there not being enough, you know, homes for Aussies, et cetera.
But we are talking about workforce and it's going to
have a big impact on us.
Speaker 7 (22:33):
I mean, yet again, it's southern Australia looking at, you know,
an overall picture and not considering what everyone else is
impacted rather than them just there. You know, backpackers will
go to these major centres of Sydney and Melbourne and
so on because it's, you know, that's the, the tourism
Australia thing, right?
Speaker 6 (22:51):
So they go there.
Speaker 7 (22:52):
And then If these visas get cut, they'll have to
ship off home. After they've spent those time in those
major centres, they then move into the regional areas. WA
initially kicked off a petition urgently requesting a review of
this proposed change, and the Northern Territory is in a
very similar position. It is going to absolutely decimate the
(23:12):
hospitality industry. Those tourism backpackers also then move into the
tourism operator situation.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
Yep.
Speaker 7 (23:19):
Picking, we already spoke to NT Farmers, Andrew Bourne, last
week when this was initially, I think, kind of touched on.
You know, it is just crazy that this is even
a consideration. It's tinkering around the edges of this whole
migration issue. The backpackers are not the ones that are
taking up the issues in the housing sector. Actually do
the hard work, Federal Minister. and look at the proper issue,
(23:40):
not what's going to then damage the economy more broadly.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Well, look, Luke Gosling has issued a statement to us
and said, I've been speaking with relevant ministerial colleagues about
the concerns being raised by the tourism sector. I'll continue
advocating for the territory and making sure our workforce and
tourism needs are understood and supported. Selina, I mean, he's
going to have to really push for us here, isn't he?
Speaker 4 (24:04):
Yeah, Katie, and this is one thing that, you know,
happy to support Luke and advocate for because this is
one area where, interestingly, we're on the same page, Territory
Labor and the CLP, around making sure we have migrant
workers here in the Northern Territory and understanding the ebbs
and flows of our tourism season, our agricultural businesses who
(24:24):
heavily rely on those seasonal workers, some of those federal
initiatives that are already in place with the PALM scheme, etc.,
I'm in Canberra next week, Katie, and this is something
I'm going to raise directly with Don Farrell in his portfolio.
So this is something I think, again, the rest of
Australia may have a certain view on numbers and population,
(24:46):
but the Northern Territory, we really do need to be
treated in a different way because we heavily rely on
those workers. And in my own electorate of Arnhem, I
know that some of my small businesses, particularly those relying
on tourism, really rely on those seasonal workers and spoke
to me about this just last week in one of
my patches as well, Katie. So this is really a
(25:08):
concern for the Northern Territory if it is to happen. Obviously,
it's sort of been flagged. There's been no formal changes
and whatnot, but the Northern Territory definitely needs to be
treated in a unique way for this. So I'm happy
to join forces, you know, if the CLP is on
that same page, supporting Luke and his advocacy as well.
to make sure that the Northern Territory is looked at
(25:29):
separately and that we can have, if this is to
go ahead, it's not confirmed yet, but if there are
any changes, that it doesn't affect our businesses and our family,
our small and medium family businesses really rely on holiday workers.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
It cannot happen.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I mean, I'm pleased to hear that, you know, that
you're prepared to work with the CLP. And, Jo, no
doubt this is something that you guys are going to
be pushing hard to not have come into effect for
the Northern Territory as well.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (25:58):
And it's great to hear, Selina, that when you're in Canberra,
you'll be advocating for that. I mean, whether I support
Luke Gosling or not's another thing, but he absolutely needs
to advocate very strongly for the Northern Territory.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
I mean, years ago... And so does the CLP government, Jo.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
So hopefully you get on the train with your portfolio
and start hambugging the ministers responsible in your federal portfolios
as well. That would be helpful too, because you're in government.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Yes, exactly. And we have been.
Speaker 5 (26:22):
But this is, you know, as Kathleen said before... we
are not Sydney or Melbourne. We are very different up here.
I know when I go to federal ministers' meetings, every
time I'm in front of them, I say, it is
very different here in the Northern Territory, whether that be
with tourism, whether it be with visas, whether it be
with education, it is a very different model up here.
(26:43):
And we need to make sure that Canberra understand that
our situation is very different when we lived on the
farm years ago, we relied on backpackers coming and working
on that farm, you know, and the agriculture industry and
tourism industry need these people.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Like, I just don't understand why these discussions, and I
understand that this policy has not been implemented yet, or
this change has not been implemented yet, but I just
don't understand why these discussions are not had.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Before you go down this path.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Like, actually speak to those sectors, to those industries, to
those regions that are going to be most heavily hit. Like,
I think surely if Albo actually spoke to Luke Gosling
and said, hey, mate, do you reckon this is going
to have an impact? I've no doubt that Luke would say, well, yeah,
it is actually going to have a big impact. Or
if he spoke to Marion Scrimgeour, if he spoke to.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Any of his elected members.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
in those regions that are going to be hit, that
they would actually say, oh, we might need to rethink
this for the regions.
Speaker 7 (27:40):
Yeah, so what's already happened is that they've slowed the
visa processing from less than a day to several months
and introduced a ballot system from some countries, which include China, Vietnam, India,
and they've paused new applications from China. 24 to 29
countries and doubled the price of visas up to $ 1, 000
instead of $ 500.
Speaker 6 (27:59):
So you're already making it hard.
Speaker 7 (28:00):
So, yeah, these are proposed changes of caps on the visa,
reducing the length of visa to six.
Speaker 6 (28:07):
Months from 12 months, removing the.
Speaker 7 (28:09):
Access to second, third WHM visas. So, yeah, there are
a few extra changes coming into effect. And, yeah, we're
still waiting to hear from the federal government as to
their entire plan. change to the system.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Look, we are going to take a quick break.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
When we come back, the Northern Territory Police Commissioner has
literally just issued a statement saying that he acknowledges the
findings which have been handed down today by the coroner
regarding the death of Senior Constable First Class Michael Dutrom.
I don't have the details of those coronial findings, but
we might try and have a little look into if
there is some of that info there and discuss further.
(28:46):
But there is certainly a lot on the agenda this morning.
So we'd love to hear from you. If you've got
something on your mind, feel free to send us a
message or give us a call.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Well, if you're going to give us a call, wait
till after 10 o'clock once Kathleen's finished her news.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
But send us a message 0499 711 360. You are
listening to Mix 104.9's 360. Now, if you've just joined
us in the studio this morning, we've got Minister for
Education and Training, Jo Hersey. We've got Kathleen Gazzola. And
on the line, we've got the Opposition Leader, Selina Yubo. Now,
we have just received a statement from the Northern Territory
(29:22):
Police Commissioner saying that the Northern Territory Police Force acknowledges
the findings handed down today by the coroner regarding the
death of Senior Constable.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
First Class Michael Dutram.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Commissioner Martin Dole, APM, said the organisation's thoughts remain with
Constable Dutram's family, friends and family. colleagues and says this
has been a long and difficult process for those closest
to Michael and our thoughts remain with them today. The
Commissioner also acknowledged that many current and former members of
the Northern Territory Police Force who have been affected by
(29:55):
Constable Dutram's death and the subsequent coronial process. Now, Kathleen,
I know that you're just having a look through those
findings at the moment.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
What can you tell us?
Speaker 7 (30:04):
So obviously, just to give a bit of background, Michael
Dutram was one of three officers who sadly took their
own life in 2022. And throughout his career, he'd faced
several traumas, including attempting to rescue a driver from a
burning car as a young constable, intense scrutiny over his
role in the arrest and allegations as well while he
(30:25):
was serving. So the coronial inquest was looking into the
pressures that he faced and the treatment that he specifically received.
The inquiry heard he had taken personal leave from his
posting as one of two officers while serving in Kintore,
a remote Central Australia community where he described feeling like
he was constantly on call and sleeping just a.
Speaker 6 (30:46):
Few hours per night.
Speaker 7 (30:48):
So the inquiry looked into all the things that he'd
suffered or experienced during his career and what kind of
assistance he either got or should have gotten while he
was in a struggling state because his family did tell
the inquiry that they really noticed a change in him
prior to taking his own life.
Speaker 6 (31:08):
So going through the... the findings of the coroner.
Speaker 7 (31:12):
There will be several recommendations in terms of what suggestions
his family want to be incorporated into assisting other officers.
Just quickly, I did see that the coroner with consultation
with his family, some suggestions that they want taken up
and perhaps sharing Michael's story during training of young constables
(31:33):
in terms of understanding the pressures that they're going to face.
So there will be extensive findings within the inquiry the
coroner has given in terms of improving the wellbeing and
looking after our frontline police officers, which there has already,
you know, rightly so, been some work already done by
the NT Police Force. And I think that's one of
(31:53):
the things that Commissioner Martin Dole has endeavoured to take
on once he took on that role.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Yeah, and he certainly said that in this statement, which
I'll take us through. But I do just want to
acknowledge how, like, that's really brave and really beautiful of
his family to want his story to be shared.
Speaker 7 (32:10):
Well, that was one thing that Carter suggested, that sharing
his story could assist as long as the family were
open to it, of course.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Well, gee, I mean, your heart breaks.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
For them.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
It breaks for every police officer this morning listening to that,
who he was friends with, who he worked with. You know,
our police do such an incredible job under what can
be such incredibly difficult circumstances. And, you know, sometimes, you know,
sometimes people feel like they can sort of use them
as a bit of a punching bag in different ways
(32:42):
when they get annoyed about something or have a crack,
you know, that something may not be working exactly the
way that they think it should be within the police force.
And I get that, you know, every job, all of
us are open to scrutiny at different times, but our
police do a really difficult, difficult job.
Speaker 7 (32:56):
And we know that out in those remote communities, there
is only one, two, three, several police officers who aren't
just serving as effect, you know, the police role. They
play so many different roles within that community as well.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Now, Commissioner Martindale has said that the wellbeing of Employees
remains a priority. He said in the lead up to
the release of the findings, we have put support measures
in place for our employees and encouraged anyone who may
be affected to access those services. He said additional wellbeing
resources have also been made available to support our people
during this period. And we recognise that today's findings may
(33:36):
be difficult for current and former employees, particularly those who
knew Michael personally or who were directly affected by by
the events surrounding his death. The Northern Territory Police Force
are going to consider the coroner's findings and any recommendations
arising from the inquest. Commissioner Dole saying we will take
the time necessary to review those findings properly and determine
(34:00):
any actions arising through our established governance process.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Joe, I know you and Selina are.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Literally just hearing this for the first time, but I
think we can all agree it's so incredibly important to
make sure that our police officers have the support that
they need.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (34:17):
And, you know, as I just said when we were
off air before, I talk to people about looking after
your mental health every day. And I think, you know,
there's been a lot of work done in this area
with the police force. But, you know, my heart goes
out to his family and how difficult that would have been,
you know, to relive all of that. And I think,
(34:38):
as you said, the police do an absolutely incredible job
each and every day. And I know that there's people
out there that will knock them every now and then,
but they really do do a fantastic job each and
every day on the front line when they put on
their uniform and walk out that door to go to work.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
They do not know what they are facing.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
No, they really don't. It's a tough job, isn't it, Selina?
Speaker 4 (35:00):
Yeah, Katie, I had the honour of meeting some of
Constable Drewcham's family members just briefly last year and they
really wanted to provide that support around what can be
done to improve mental health and wellbeing support for those
who are in uniform, but also those ancillary positions who
do the support, you know, the call takers who are
in the emergency call centres and those who are supporting
(35:25):
from the back as much as those who are in
the front line and serving in uniform. So I think
the bigger conversation and having the awareness has definitely changed
over the years. Over the years, mental health and wellbeing
should not ever be a shame job. It should always
be front and centre in all positions, but particularly those
who are in our frontline services to get that extra support.
(35:47):
So I think there could be some more mechanisms put
in place to support. And that's obviously kind of what
I've got from a bit of a statement from Police
Commissioner just put out today. But having, I think there
was a specific wellbeing unit that was being developed within
the police force. So it'd be good to hear kind
of where that's at, what could be boosted, what's happening
(36:10):
that could be tailored to those particularly remote and regional
police officers as much as our urban police officers as well.
So I think more and more people talking about it
is a positive. Always sad when it's come from something
so tragic. Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Look, we are going to take a quick break. You
are listening to Mix 1049's 360. It is the week
that was. And, well, there's a by-election this weekend, but
there's also some rumours going around about Jacinta Price.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
So we've got a bit to discuss still.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Plenty more coming your way right here on the week
that was. You are listening to Mix 1049's 360. And, look,
there's been a.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Lot happening this week. As I say, there always is.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
If you've just joined us in the studio, we have
indeed got Joe Hersey, the Minister for Education and Training,
We have got Selina Yubo on.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
The line in Catherine and we've got Kathleen Gazzola.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Now, before we talk about the Molka by-election and also
these rumours around Jacinta Nampajimpa Price, Jo, I do just
want to quickly ask you, unions are warning the Territory
Government's plan to remove mandatory teacher representation from the Teacher
Registration Board could open the door to political interference and
lower professional standards. So more than 900 people have signed
(37:23):
this petition calling for the legislation to be withdrawn. Is
this going to mean that we don't have teachers, principals,
parents on the teacher registration board?
Speaker 4 (37:32):
No.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
So I just wanted to clarify, Katie, on that. There
will be a couple of amendments to Clause 6, first
of all, to say that the minister must have regard
to the need for the board to have an appropriate
balance of skills and expertise. And there'll also be an
amendment to Clause 28, which means the board can delegate
its powers and functions directly except those relating to disciplinary
(37:56):
action proceedings and teacher registration. But in Clause 6, and
I think maybe, you know, I haven't... Brian from the
union hasn't reached out or anything, and I said to him,
you know, if he wants to give me a call, feel.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Free, because I don't think people have read the bill.
You know, in its entirety.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
So you're saying there will be, you will have teacher,
a principal, parent on that board?
Speaker 5 (38:23):
Absolutely, because clause six, number two states, a person appointed
as a member must have the professional skills and expertise
in one or more of the following areas. Education system,
that could be a teacher. School and student performance, that's
fairly self-explanatory. Teaching and learning practices. Workforce development. Law or
regulatory practices. corporate governments and any other skills or experience.
Speaker 6 (38:48):
But I mean, those three aren't specifically related to schools though.
Speaker 5 (38:52):
No, but this came about by joining TRB and NTBOS
together for creating efficiencies. All boards were looked at when
we came into government and TRB will still be doing
the registering of teachers and things like that. But this
just means that you have a stronger skills-based board. And
(39:13):
I said the other day, Skills, I'm not talking about,
you know, vet and training and things like that. I'm
talking about, you know, there'll be somebody with strong governance,
somebody with maybe a law degree. You still want that
teacher representation.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
You, you know, that people can, uh, education department will
put it out. People can apply to be on the board.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
So what's the reason for the change? Like if it's
not broken, what are you trying to fix?
Speaker 5 (39:33):
Well, the thing is it was about creating efficiencies. So
one board had 11, um, Selina, we were left with
a nearly $ 11 billion debt.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
How much are they getting paid?
Speaker 4 (39:47):
There's not a final amount of money. The functions of
the NC Board of Studies and the Teacher Registration Board
are clearly very different. So merging them together, one, doesn't
make sense. Two, will create more inefficiencies because you've got
multiple functions of both of those two separate entities, then
(40:08):
mixed all in together, and then... Making a change that
the union, the experts who cover the whole of the
Northern Territory when it comes to education and ignoring what
they are asking for, those clear guarantees that there will
be teachers, parents, those with diverse education experience, like in
(40:28):
a remote sense, are removed from the current legislation when
there has been no one who has called for that.
Why are you doing it?
Speaker 5 (40:36):
There has not been anyone that hasn't called for it.
When we first got in, there were people from the
registration board that actually have, you know, they were ringing
up in tears because they couldn't actually get their registration board.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Tranche 1 actually changed that.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
So you removed teachers from the teacher registration board, the
one professional.
Speaker 5 (40:53):
Body that makes sure that it is not diluted by having.
Speaker 4 (40:58):
Less professionals making sure that teachers are the highest quality
possible in the Northern Territory. Don't our students and our
families deserve that?
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Are we going to end up in a situation, Jo,
where some people are getting the tick off to be
teachers that aren't fully qualified?
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Because that was the concern.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
That was raised. Absolutely not. Absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
I guess the issue I always have or the worry
I always have when legislation changes like this is, you know,
some may say, OK, it's all fine and good while
Jo Hersey is the Education Minister because I feel like
she's going to be fair and equitable in terms of
who she puts on that board or who she approves.
But what happens if you get some tyrant that's on
there that goes, oh, well, the legislation means that I
can tick off whoever I want?
Speaker 3 (41:37):
This is a statutory board. A statutory board right across Australia.
Speaker 5 (41:43):
The thing is that it would be that the minister
appoint the chair of that board. What we are saying
in clause 6.2 is that those professional skills and expertise
in those areas that I read out before still are
all covered. So people can, you can get the teacher
that's applying to be on the board, you can get
the principal that's applying to be on the board. There'll
(42:04):
be a number of people that will apply to be
on the board, but there will be a skill set
and strength in it.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
But they could get pipped out by a lawyer or
somebody else instead.
Speaker 7 (42:12):
Yes, as long as those skills are considered, it's taking
away the mandatory of a teacher or a principal or family.
Speaker 6 (42:19):
On there, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (42:21):
It is.
Speaker 5 (42:22):
A person appointed as a member must have the professional
skills and expertise.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
And I went over this the other day. Education system.
You must... That clearly... I mean, our education system is
a teacher. It's already working effectively. Why change it?
Speaker 5 (42:37):
It wasn't working effectively, Selina, so it is about creating efficiencies.
Speaker 4 (42:40):
Look, so you're saying that for people who are on
the board because of their profession and the mandated guarantee
that we have teachers and principals and those who are
working on the ground and in the field is not working.
So their advice to the board, their professionalism in providing
independent advice in that process for teacher registration is is
not working. Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 3 (43:01):
No, that's not what I'm saying at all.
Speaker 5 (43:03):
We are creating efficiencies by bringing these two boards together
and there will absolutely be strengthening of skills in this area.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
You don't need two really large boards.
Speaker 4 (43:14):
But they do two different things, Jo. Completely different focuses.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
We are going to have to just take a change
of pace for about two minutes. That's all we've got
left because, Jo, I want to ask you first off,
Is Senator Jacinta Nampajimpa Price considering a tilt at a
Queensland lower house seat at the next federal election? That
is what The Australian's reporting today.
Speaker 5 (43:37):
I did read that, Katie, and we have annual conference
this weekend. I will see Senator Price and I will
absolutely ask the question.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
I think it is just, you.
Speaker 5 (43:46):
Know, every now and then there's all these rumours that
come out. I think it is absolutely rumours and scuttlebutt
out there. I don't I do not believe that there
is any truth in it. But I shall ask the
question this weekend.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Well, and I think she'd said no. She's a strong
advocate for the territory. But, you know, when there's smoke,
there's fire sometimes, isn't there, Kathleen?
Speaker 5 (44:06):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (44:08):
It's sort of like it's got to come from somewhere.
You don't just pull it out of anywhere.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
And you never know. You never know. Although one thing,
I'll say where there's smoke, there's fire. However, in politics,
how many rumours have you heard over the years? I've
certainly heard a lot.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
There's plenty of smoke.
Speaker 5 (44:20):
Well, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Hey, but before we all go, Selina, of course, the
Mulcah by-election this weekend. How's it looking out there? I mean,
there's an independent, of course, and an ALP candidate. I
know some people a bit dirty at the CLP, Jo,
for not running anyone.
Speaker 5 (44:36):
Look, I think under the circumstances, there's certainly been a
lot of work by the Chief Minister and Olly Carson
out there with Ruritinga and Gumaj to you know, on
the work of Nullarmboy moving forward out of there.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
And, you know, I.
Speaker 5 (44:52):
Wish both those people the best for the election tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
You're obviously heading out there, Selina, are you?
Speaker 4 (44:58):
I'll be in Nullarmboy tomorrow for the end of the by-election, definitely.
But it is a huge slap in the face, Katie,
that the CLP, the sitting government, does not care about
the East Arnhem region, particularly with such a critical time
for the transition for Nuland Boys. I think that's definitely
going to change quite a lot of views. or the
CLP government, if they think they're doing enough work. That's
(45:19):
definitely not what.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
There is a lot of work happening out there, Selina,
and I don't really think it's a.
Speaker 4 (45:23):
Not running a candidate in a by-election is an absolutely
honest way of showing you don't care about a region
or a town.
Speaker 7 (45:31):
I mean, odds will think that Labor picks it up,
so Selina's got an extra member in her team, potentially,
going to six.
Speaker 6 (45:36):
How are you.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Feeling about that?
Speaker 4 (45:38):
We're working hard. We've got to work hard until the
6pm deadline on Saturday, Katie, but... If we get Yerawah
McGrath in as the Labor candidate and the sitting member
for Moorka, it'll be fantastic news for the region. He's
grown up in the region. He works in the region.
He's growing his family here. But he can be a
strong voice for Moorka, but he'll have the Labor team
(46:00):
directly behind him as well.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
To advocate for the region.
Speaker 5 (46:03):
And just a reminder for the listeners out there that
in the 2024 election, Labor did not have a candidate,
so they clearly found one this time.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
You two are firing up now at the end. I
should have started this discussion earlier.
Speaker 4 (46:16):
You started it with Katie. We didn't even follow the
education straight away.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Selina Yubo, the opposition leader. Good to catch up with
you this morning. Thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 4 (46:27):
Thank you so much. And Katie, there was R U OK?
Day yesterday. So, you know, we can do that every
day of the year. Just check in on your mates
and your colleagues, your family and your friends and strangers alike.
So make sure we look after each other.
Speaker 6 (46:39):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
Thanks, Selina.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
Thanks for your time. Jo Hersey, the Minister for Education
and Training. Thank you so much for your time this morning.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
Thank you very much, Katie, and have a good weekend.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
Yep, you too.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
And Kathleen Gazzola, don't you go anywhere. We'll be getting
the latest in local news with you in just a moment.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Thank you. You are listening to Mix 104.9's 360. That
was The Week That Was.
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