The Week That Was - 4 September 2026

Katie Woolf was joined on the panel this morning by News24 NT Bureau Chief Matt Cunningham, Opposition's Manual Brown and Children and Families Minister Robyn Cahill. 

They discussed aged care, Beetaloo gas finally flowing, YiSSA Short Term Accommodation and Federal Coalition promise to cut tobacco excise.   

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time for the week that was. And in the
studio with us this morning from News 24, it is
the Bureau Chief for the Northern Territory, Matt Cunningham. Good morning.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
It's always on, Wolfie.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
Always on.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Robyn Carl, the Minister for Children and Families, joins us
in the studio. Good morning to you, Robyn.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
Good morning, Katie, and good morning to all of your listeners.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Wonderful to have you in the studio. And for the opposition,
we've got Manuel Brown. Good morning to you, Manny.

Speaker 4 (00:27):
Howdy, morning listeners.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Good to have you in the studio. And I tell
you what, it's been a busy week. I feel like
I say that every single week. But after years and years,
the Beetaloo Basin gas is now flowing into the Northern
Territories power grid with the first production. from Tambor and
Shenandoah South Project reaching Darwin. So the Northern Territory Government

(00:48):
have said that the development's going to generate more than
$ 17 billion in economic value over the next two decades
and support more than 13,000 jobs by 2040. We know
that more than 40 terajoules of gas a day is
expected to flow into the Territory grid powering homes and businesses.
And we caught up with the CEO of Tamborin yesterday,

(01:11):
who said that, yes, that gas is already flowing through.
I mean, Matt, we've been reporting in the Northern Territory
for a long time. It's taken a while, hasn't it?

Speaker 5 (01:20):
I think, yeah, I have done so many stories. I
reckon I've done for five years, I've been doing stories
saying the gas is going to flow from the Beedaloo
next year. Well, you know, and there are a lot
of times along the way, Katie, where I just thought,
This is probably not going to happen. And I think
talking to people this week, I think it went pretty
close at times to not happening. I think one of

(01:42):
the things that in short it did happen was the
gas sales agreement that was signed by Eva Lawler back
in 2024. I know there's a bit of politicking around
this whole issue and who's, you know, the champion of
the B-Lube. But I think, you know, Eva Lawler in
particular deserves a fair bit of credit for.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
How we got to this point.

Speaker 5 (02:01):
Um and and now you know the opportunity that exists
here um is just enormous i mean also i was
at resources week you know on wednesday and there was
a vibe down there that it was more positive than
i've seen for a long long time and there is
a really i think positive vibe around this town generally
and you're seeing it in some of you know the

(02:21):
the indicators you look at state final demand the latest
figures we're leading the nation um house prices in the
rest of the country are going backwards and they're still
going forwards here so Darwin's one of those places that
often runs counter-cyclical to everywhere else. And I think that
we might be on the sort of cusp of some
pretty significant economic development and some pretty hopefully good times

(02:46):
ahead here.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see what it
does mean. I mean, the discussion point as well, Robin,
has certainly turned to gas powering data centres and the offshoots,
I guess, of, you know, this huge resource that we've
got in the Northern Territory.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
Oh, absolutely. Look, and, you know, Territory Gas powering Territory
businesses and Territory homes and Territory industry. How unbelievable is that?
And I think the significant difference here is, of course,
that this is actually Territory Gas. So, yes, we had
gas flowing into the Territory previously, but it's been from offshore.
So it's an Australian government initiative. So this is our

(03:23):
gas and we absolutely have made it very clear that
the Territory must come first in this. And you're right.
What it does is unlock the potential for growth economically
in the Territory to a level that's never seen before
because the one element that we've been missing is this continual, secure,
inexpensive gas energy supply. And what it does is it's generational.

(03:48):
So the quantum of gas in the Beedaloo sub-basin, and
there are four proponents there. So you mentioned Tamborin earlier,
but we've also got Beedaloo Energy, Daily Waters, and Impex
have bought into that discussion as well, and Santos, it's
200 years of supply. It's extraordinary. So it means that
investors can come here and go, yeah, we're going to

(04:08):
build our advanced manufacturing facility here. We're going to produce
phosphates here. We're going to invest here. We're going to
make sure that we can keep the territory moving. And
more critically, on the back of what's been happening in
the Middle East, we actually have the whole region looking
to the Northern Territory to assist them in secure supply chain.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
Is the federal government going to come to the party?
I know that's been a big discussion point for the
last couple of weeks. And obviously, the Chief Minister had
met with Anthony Albanese and other state and territory leaders.
And it did look as though there's going to be
a sort of carve out, I suppose, for Queensland and
the Northern Territory. But then we had Chris Bowen come
out and make some other comments. So it's just hard
to know what's going to happen.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
As the Chief Minister said, she was in the room
in National Cabinet, Chris Bowen wasn't. And I'm not quite sure. Look,
I understand the caution that the federal government have had
up until a couple of years ago.

Speaker 6 (04:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
Because the East Coast is in crisis. There's no question.
But for the last 18 months in particular, we have
been saying there is no longer an issue. Stop building
import terminals. Start building pipelines. Let us get the gas
to the East Coast and to South Australia. And I
can tell you, we've actually got some movement happening there now.
The message is getting through and people are understanding. that

(05:21):
we can secure energy for our country and the security
of the economy for our country for centuries. So it's
really critical. It's a transitional supply of energy that will
assist the country move towards its net zero goals ultimately.
It's a supply that assists with creating renewable energy opportunities

(05:43):
and partnerships. We've got Sun Cable already talking to companies
The gas suppliers is how can we make this partnership,
particularly in the data centre space. And it just means
for the Territory, we are literally on the cusp of
the generation that will really change the profile of the
Territory and put us front and centre, which is exactly

(06:03):
where we need to be.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
It was interesting.

Speaker 5 (06:06):
I was speaking to Adam Watson this week from APA Group,
the pipeline builders. And, you know, the Chief Minister had
come out a couple of weeks ago, I think, and
he called on the federal government to underwrite the pipeline
infrastructure or even fund it. Adam Watson was saying that
the assistance they need from governments, federal and state and territory,
is not necessarily when it comes to funding. It's when

(06:29):
it's basically around, you know, the regulations and getting things
sort of fast-tracked to be able to do it. So
they're planning a 1,600-kilometre pipeline from the Beedaloo to Queensland,
and they're already, you know, in detailed planning stages.

Speaker 6 (06:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (06:45):
I think they believe that the funding will exist to
get that done.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, don't handbrake them.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
Because what drives that is the customer base. And they
can see now that that first gas, I've referred to
it as the first domino falling.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
So it's proof.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
Like it's there, it's real, it's happening. And so for
those investors who've been just wanting that proof, they've seen it.
They're now talking to the people who are infrastructure builders.
And we just need to... And the one message... Matt's
absolutely right. The one message has been we need a
regulatory framework that is set and doesn't change.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
I guess the other part of this discussion, though, as well,
is making sure that Territorians do benefit, making sure that
there's jobs. I mean, Manny, that's an important part of this,
isn't it?

Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 4 (07:29):
Like, I'll be looking at the region, you know, and
the surrounding towns. There's no excuse for... people to be
unemployed in that area. You know, we want KPIs for
Aboriginal people to take some of these roles that are
going to be created from creating that.

Speaker 6 (07:48):
You know.

Speaker 4 (07:49):
And, you know, good to have a plug for Eva Lawler. Yes,
she signed it in 2024. Thanks for that, Matt. Absolutely.
And we're in support. We're in support for development, obviously.
We just want to see the outcomes for Territorians, like
it rolling out to to reduce that cost of living
stuff that we all experience every day. We just wait

(08:10):
for that.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
And we've made it really clear to all of the
investors that they have to have a footprint here. And actually,
I just left the Minerals Council's Arafura Rare Earths Breakfast,
another project that's going to be in construction in two weeks.
These projects are long-term projects, 30 years in the making,
both of them. But we've made it very, very clear.
We have a territory benefit policy that we're currently reviewing.

(08:32):
we are saying to them, we don't want FIFO. We
want job opportunities here in the Territory. And most critically,
we want career and employment pathways for our regional areas
and for Aboriginal people in particular, particularly our young people,
because that's the big challenge.

Speaker 5 (08:47):
I think one of the things that stuck out to
me when we were out there on Tuesday was the
support on the ground from the native title holders and
the TOs and the NLC were there as well. And,
you know, they really wanted to front up and talk
about this project and what it could potentially mean for
them and the opportunities that could exist. There was one guy,

(09:07):
Ben Uluwatu, I think his name is. He's actually set
up his own contracting business. So he has now set
up his own contracting business that employs, I think he
has a couple of other people on the books, and
then they contract to Tambor and Resources out there. So
it's not only creating jobs, but it's actually creating business
opportunities for people on the ground out there. And I

(09:30):
think that's as important as anything in this is creating
that economic development, particularly in those remote and regional areas
where you can suddenly create real jobs.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yeah, well, and this is so important.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
It is so important. The other element of this, though,
that we spoke to the mayor of the Barclay about
yesterday is making sure that there's infrastructure there, making sure
that there is accommodation and people, places for people to live.
I mean, that's also part of this discussion, isn't it, Robin?
Like the last thing you want is that real boom
and bust where, you know, I've seen it in Mount
Isa where things go crazy for a couple of years

(10:05):
and then you, you know, then there's nothing left behind.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
There's no question that the initial phases of these projects
have significant construction phases where you do have that very
large workforce that's required and then you have to have
the view of what does it look like in the
longer term. I think the thing that's really critical from
the gas point of view is what it will give
us the opportunity to do and it will be the
other industry that comes off the back of that that

(10:30):
will make sure that we have this continuity and balance
of scale of opportunities well well into the future I
I keep saying, should I ever get grandchildren? I don't
know that I ever will, but should I ever?

Speaker 2 (10:42):
No pressure, child.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
Far outweigh their– I have two sons.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Sorry, but I only know one of them.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
No pressure to the boys. It's really well and truly
into the future, and we're talking 30, 40, 50 years.
So 40 years is our furious project. It's a very
long project. The gas is– 200 years of gas so
what that gives us is the ability to say to
potential investors you can build your business here and you
can be here for as long as you want to be.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
How do you deal with though that pushback that we
very often see when there is a big project that
is going to get underway or something like the gas
I'm seeing it now with the AI data centres I
don't know whether we're going to see it with any
of the other mining projects that potentially do get off
the ground in the but you do have genuine people
who are concerned about the environment. You do also have

(11:31):
quite a large group of agitators who don't want things
to move ahead in some of these areas.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
Well, the reality is that there are very robust regulatory
frameworks in place. We all know that the regulatory framework
around the gas exploration was created from the PEPA review.
It's recognised as something that's, you know, world leading.

Speaker 5 (11:52):
Do you agree with Dick Steinberger and others who have
said that, in hindsight, that moratorium and the PEPA review
were the best thing that happened for the industry here
because it gave them the social licence to be able
to push forward?

Speaker 3 (12:06):
Well, I think the review could have been done without
a moratorium. So I think it could have progressed and
done it in partnership with them. But I think the
critical thing was what you referred to earlier, the fact
that they have been so good at sitting down with
traditional owners and talking to them about what works for them.
They've been so conscientious about creating pathways. I was out

(12:29):
at Shenandoah South a few weeks back and just meeting
some of the young blokes who've got a career path
into Tamborin. So just really basic premises about learning about
how important it is. You've got a job, there's a
reason you've got to turn up at a particular time
and you go home at a particular time and the
reward that that gets you and then the pathway that
creates for you, the apprenticeship pathways that they're establishing. I

(12:52):
think their connection in that has been extraordinary. And these
projects are long-term projects, but I don't think the moratorium
was helpful at all. I think it created doubt with
investors for the long term. But certainly, you know, you
can do a review in consultation with industry and continue
to progress and not impede.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
Is that what you're planning on doing with the AI
data centres?

Speaker 3 (13:13):
So that work's already been done. I referred to it
in Parliament just recently. The previous government already did that work.
They already did consultancies, already done that. So I think
the critical element is, and the thing that it's It's exciting,
but it's also a little terrifying, is the rapidity with
which AI data centres are growing and changing and evolving.

(13:33):
And even in the space of six months, for example,
the water required for an AI data centre has significantly
decreased because of advances in how they do those cooling systems.
They're very, very conscious of the environmental requirements and we
have very good regulations in place. We've got a very
strict water allocation policy and they're looking at alternatives. So

(13:56):
they're looking at can we, and they've already identified they can,
we can desalinate seawater and use seawater. They have a
circulatory coolant system that once the water and the cooling
system is in place, that's contained. So they're very responsible
and let's be honest, all of those people who are
concerned about it wouldn't be able to share their concerns
unless we had data centres. Because that's what creates the network.

Speaker 4 (14:19):
So the government will be putting out, like, the size
of it and how much water it'll be using and power, like...
That's the question that I have.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
A bit more detail on it?

Speaker 4 (14:28):
More detail on it because.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
Well, Manuel, I would have thought you'd be pretty familiar
with the process because you guys did, after all, approve
the next DC data centre that's almost finished construction here
in the city.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
But the point that he's making, though, is a fair
one in terms of, you know, like how much water
will be required and what the needs of any new
data centre is going to need.

Speaker 3 (14:47):
You know, robust tender processes, robust... There's environmental impact plans
that have to be done. The rules are the same
for everybody. There are no free passes in any of this.
The rules are there for a reason and they will
be adhered to.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
We're going to take a bit of a break. You
are listening to Mix 1049's 360. It is the week
that was. Well, if you've just joined us, it is
Friday morning. It is the week that was. In the studio,
we've got Manuel Brown, we've got Robin Carl and we've
got Matt Cunningham. Now, a lot of discussion this week
around health yet again after the peak bodies representing the
Northern Territories doctors and nurses called for a code yellow

(15:24):
to be reinstated at Royal Darwin Hospital, labelling the situation
as a dangerous state of disaster and warning that Territorians
could be placed at risk of harm. Now, throughout the week,
we spoke to the health department. Fiona Renshaw had spoken
to us about that new ward coming online, as well
as plans for a rapid assessment clinic within Royal Darwin Hospital.

(15:48):
And in addition to that, the use, if and when needed,
of the Corella ward. at the private hospital. So there's
certainly some plans afoot there. We know that the health
minister then officially opened that new ward, saying that it
was going to welcome patients as part of a staged approach.
So the first 12 beds open with more coming online
over the coming weeks. Now, good news, of course, that

(16:12):
that ward is opening and has opened and will hopefully
mean that there's more beds available. But we know that
our health system is under a lot of pressure. I mean,
some would argue it has been for a very long time,
but for whatever reason at the moment, it is certainly,
you know, it's feeling that stress. And there's discussion as
well about the aged care beds and the fact that

(16:35):
we've got a number of senior Territorians that are really
forced into beds within our hospitals because there's There's nowhere
else for them to go. And we've been talking about
aged care places, Matt, for as long as we're talking
about the Beedaloo.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
That's true. I mean, it really is. It's a shameful situation.

Speaker 5 (16:53):
I mean, I don't know what the numbers are at
the moment, but, you know, at times there have been,
you know, 50, 60 plus people, you know, in a bed.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
I think the number most recently is around 80.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yeah, that was what I thought.

Speaker 5 (17:04):
You know, and that's just, you know, that puts just a...
an incredible burden on the hospital that's, you know, so.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
And on those poor seniors too. You know, like you think,
the poor buggers. The last thing you want is to
be stuck in a bloody hospital ward. You know, you
want to be able to go to a facility. You've
paid your taxes your whole life. You know, to me, like,
I find it quite upsetting that you then end up
in that situation.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah, look, I think, as you know, I've got a
long history in the healthcare sector here in the Northern
Territory and it has been a challenge for as long
as I've been here. And it is very frustrating. I
think when I first moved here and we had the
youngest demographic in the country and there was definitely this
approach where people didn't tend to retire here. They tended

(17:49):
to go back home wherever home was, which I always
found a bit amusing because I thought home was where
you lived. But anyway... But what's happened over the last
three decades is that people go, no, this is my home.
This is where I want to stay. This is where
I want to retire. And we know that a lot
of the allocation of fundings is generated through our censuses

(18:10):
and what the ABS data is. I can understand kind
of back in the day where it might have been
a little bit skewed, but we've certainly had more than
enough data and evidence given both by our government department
here and just data collected generally through the various organisations
that says we have an emerging crisis. And the worst
place for an elderly person, particularly one who has dementia

(18:35):
or a dementia-like illness, is stuck in an acute facility.
And I was recently... had a personal reason to see
what that experience was like. And it was terrible. These
people are literally there for weeks and weeks and weeks
and weeks with no exit. And I think, you know,
the federal government has responsibility for aged care and I
think this is definitely, and I think the statement that

(18:57):
came out yesterday proves that this is something that is bipartisan,
that we should be going to them. This is not
good enough.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Well, we've got a situation as well. Even the NT
News this morning reporting that in a rare show of camaraderie,
Australia's state and territory health ministers are taking the country's
aged care crisis to the Commonwealth, stating that the 3,600
stranded patients... in hospitals is far beyond sustainable. So we
know that they're all going to be meeting today. No

(19:25):
doubt this is going to be a big point of discussion.
I mean, we have got money that's been announced, though, Matt,
by the feds. And we've also, we've even, I think
we've even named a provider for a facility.

Speaker 5 (19:37):
I mean, we've just, I just feel like we're stuck
in Groundhog Day, Katie, because we've just got through the
maternity debate, you know, where we had this barney that
seemed to go on forever between the federal government and
the anti-government over you know, that finally arrived, or at
least a little bit of it did when the Prime
Minister arrived in town.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
I don't think it's hit.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
The bank yet. There you go.

Speaker 5 (19:58):
And now we're having the same argument over aged care.
I mean, you would think that this needs to be
an absolute priority for so many reasons. One, I mean,
you make the point rightly that the reason it needs
to be an absolute priority is for the poor people
who are stuck in those hospital beds at the moment
where they should be in different accommodation. But we've also got,

(20:24):
like the situation at the Royal Darwin Hospital at the
moment is just absolute chaos. And the poor people who
work there who are just under enormous pressure and yet
they don't, clearly don't have enough staff, they don't have
enough resources and they don't have a facility there as
well that is anywhere near the standard in 2026 that

(20:45):
they should be working out of. They are working out
of a building that was built in, you know, the
early 1980s or late 1970s, early 1980s that has snow
shutters on the window because it was a design that
was stolen from Canberra that was stolen.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
From Canada or something along those lines.

Speaker 6 (21:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (21:02):
And, you know, the roof is literally falling in and
they're expected to work in that facility. I mean, you know,
we clearly need a new hospital.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (21:12):
And the planning for that needed to start yesterday because,
you know, it's obviously going to take 10 years before
you get to that level.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
Well, we're actually not going to wait 10 years, Matt.
And I'm just going to say that previous– I think
it was the Henderson government did do a master plan
but never executed it. So what we've– the commitment we've
made is we have a specialised group who are putting
their plan together and they will make the recommendations. And
it's not just about RDH because– We're increasingly seeing growth

(21:40):
in population in our regional areas, so we need to
make sure that the health capacity is extended beyond the
major centres. So what that comes out with and says,
this is what we need, this is what will address
the issues that are currently being faced, we'll put the
budget forward and the commitment's been made.

Speaker 4 (21:57):
One of the issues I see is that Darwin Hospital
is not just for Darwin or the outskirts, it's for
everyone because, you know, people from Goondbalanya, like I advocate
for that clinic a lot, They're all in here, you know,
people in Borough. I know they're in here, you know.
They're coming into the– and they're overcrowding the workspace there.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
You know. It is something that the AMA had actually
spoken to us about earlier in the week as well, Manny,
like basically saying that, you know, we've got to make sure–
and I don't mean this in any way in a
disrespectful way to any of the health clinic staff out
in those communities, but if we're able to have that
preventative care out in community so people aren't actually having
to come into town– Yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:36):
Well, we need to fund those. You know, we need
to fund those. Like Malala Health in Manangrida does an
amazing job. Unfortunately, 200km down the track, Goonbalanya don't have that.
So they all have to fly in.

Speaker 3 (22:45):
Getting staff is probably one of the biggest challenges, certainly
in the time... And I've worked both in the public
and the private sector. Yeah. It is an incredible challenge
and it's increasingly hard. We have a... The workforce has
a very real approach of, oh, we'd rather be on
the east coast. We used to have some really robust...
attraction programs that were supported by the federal government that

(23:09):
were wound up probably about 15 years ago. And we're
actually seeing the result of that now. So I think we,
you know, I know that Minister Edgington is pushing really
hard to tell the story about why we need this
additional assistance. But if you go back to the aged
care bed, there's 80 beds that are being used for
non-acute patients in an environment that is not healthy for them.

(23:31):
So if we could free up those beds... then straight
away you've got a much better option for the people
who need to come into the acute setting.

Speaker 5 (23:38):
Just on your point about the staffing, I mean, I
can speak from some experience that it was, you know,
I came here with my wife because, you know, and
she's a nurse midwife, because of the attraction at the time,
one of working here in an environment that is different
to anywhere else in the country, but also because at
the time the wages were the most attractive in the

(23:59):
country and Um, and, and, you know, there were other
perks that came with it. You know, you could live
on site and they still do this to some extent,
but I think you've seen the wages for nurses in
the Northern territory drop off. You know, they used to
be quite easily the best in the country. And I
don't think they're anywhere near that. Now you're seeing in
other States, um, nurses getting, uh, annual pay increases of 7%,

(24:23):
you know, 28% over four years, I think in Victoria,
we're falling behind on that level.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
Um, And I understand why we are from a budgetary
point of view.

Speaker 3 (24:32):
Well, there was also the challenge of we had a
wage freeze in place for a period of time. So
trying to catch that up is also really difficult.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
That was during COVID though, wasn't it?

Speaker 5 (24:40):
Well, the wage freeze was before COVID. But that was
driven by the fact that we've got this huge debt
and we've got this massive public service. And many of
them don't work in frontline positions. But anyway, that's a
longer conversation for another day.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
Well, I don't think people mind a pay rise for
people that are in frontline services, particularly our nurses and those,
you know, that are working in the hospital under really
tough conditions.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
And look, what used to happen in the past is
the federal government recognised the particular nature of getting people
to work, not just in the remote communities in the
Northern Territory, but across the country. And that's why they
had some fantastic programs that were on offer that could
be tapped into by particularly the private sector. And so
that would count for the Aboriginal medical services so they

(25:24):
could actually attract people to come and live and work
in those communities, which is really.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
Where you want them.

Speaker 5 (25:29):
And then, I mean, I think the other part to
that now is the facility itself. I mean, it is difficult,
I think, to attract people to come and work in
Royal Darwin Hospital when you look at that building and
you're working in this building that is not fit for purpose.
It makes your job, I'm sure, every day for the
people on the front line, more difficult because the facility

(25:52):
is not the kind of facility that people should expect
to be working in in 2026. And I'm sure there
are other parts of the country where you can work
in a much better facility than the one that exists here.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Now, look, the other part of the discussion when it
comes to health is these private maternity services. And I
know that this month we are expecting... that certainly, well,
we're hoping that there's going to be some kind of
direction from McGraw-Nicol in relation to who's going to take
over that private hospital. Certainly, Steve Edgington had said that

(26:25):
he's written to those receivers again and has said that
the expectation is that this successful proponent must be committed
to the restoration of private maternity services again. I know
it's certainly, you know, a side note, but however you
look at it, our public hospital system at the moment
is bursting at the seams. So if we're able to,
you know, to get things back to running properly and

(26:48):
having those maternity services, I mean, Robyn, I would imagine
that you've probably got a pretty good idea of how
things used to run at that private hospital.

Speaker 3 (26:55):
I do indeed. You know, the hospital used to make
money and deliver 1,000 babies a year. But, you know,
just saying, that was on my watch. LAUGHTER So look.

Speaker 6 (27:03):
The reality is any private system will absolutely commit to
a maternity service because that is a service that is good, consistent.

Speaker 3 (27:21):
Revenue, which is what a private hospital needs to succeed, right?
And so you need to do that. So But I
think the thing that concerned me was when it actually
did close down, the numbers had dropped down to 250
in the private hospital, which is what made it not
possible to continue, according to Healthscope. So I think they
need to look at why that happened. And so whatever
the new provider does, they really need to address that

(27:44):
and attract people back in.

Speaker 5 (27:45):
Well, you might be able to give some insight into
that as well, because, I mean, one of the things
that I've certainly been told is that the out-of-pocket costs
to have a baby at the private hospital had blown
out to something like $ 10, 000.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
Yeah, it's an issue across the country. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
It's wild, hey?

Speaker 3 (28:03):
So that says that Medicare needs a review because Medicare
is a rebate system to support people to access health care.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
Well, and you pay through your bloody eyeballs for private health.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
So if you've got that and the Medicare system reflects
the actual work being done by the the skilled midwives,
by the skilled obstetricians, by the paediatricians. So clearly that
needs a review so that it means that the gap
is not as significant.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
Look, we will take a bit of a break. When
we come back, I'm very keen to talk a little
more about the situation out at Yissa, the short-term accommodation.
We'll talk more on that in just a couple of moments.
You are listening to Mix 1049's 360. If you've just
joined us, it is the week that wasn't in the
studio this morning. We've got Manuel Brown, we've got Robin
Carl and we've got Matt Cunningham. Now, one of the

(28:50):
other topics that certainly dominated a lot of discussion this
week was the situation surrounding Yissa short-term accommodation, more specifically
about the political stash between the Northern Territory and the
Commonwealth Government. But there has been some question marks around
the state of that facility and whether it is truly
up to the quality that Ausco are wanting the Northern

(29:10):
Territory Government to purchase it at. Now, I think it's
a difficult conversation in the sense that, you know, we
have got hundreds of vulnerable people out there that do
need accommodation and no one's disputing that. But from my understanding,
$ 6. 5 million is the figure that's been put on the
table and for these demountables that I want to say

(29:31):
are about halfway through their lifespan, but I'm happy to
be corrected.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
And then the Treasury Department's valued them at 3 mil.

Speaker 3 (29:39):
So let me just be really clear. There's not been
any definitive on-the-table offer. There's been a... A claim that
Osco have said they would walk away for $ 6. 5 million.
That is not what we got in writing from Osco.
We got a, oh, we want you to extend the
lease and every 90 days you can think about if
you still want to stay there. Noting, of course, they

(30:00):
have no tenure beyond October, $ 6. 5 million. And the cheapest
it would come out, it would be about $ 7. 2 million.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
So is that like the– how come it goes up
to 7.2?

Speaker 3 (30:12):
Because they're not saying, oh, we'll walk away. If they said,
we will walk away– if I had in writing that
they said, we will walk away on this date for
6.5 and then the Commonwealth said, we will fund you
the 3.5 without strings attached– That's a different conversation, but
that is not the conversation that we've been having.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
So from your perspective, what would need to change today
for the Northern Territory Government to go, all right, we're
prepared to accept this?

Speaker 3 (30:38):
Well, in confirmation writing that $ 6. 5 million was the walkaway
price and the Commonwealth didn't add a whole bunch of
strings like, oh, you will give the infrastructure to an
Aboriginal corporation. You will give one specific organisation without a
proper process a minimum five-year option to run the service.

Speaker 4 (30:55):
This is what they haven't put on the.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
They haven't. No, they've just... These are the strings.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Is this what the federal government has put on the table?

Speaker 3 (31:01):
Has put on the table. These are the strings that
they've put in place. So the first round was, oh,
you have to give them 15 years. Now, this is
in breach of Commonwealth procurement policy. So there are certainly
options in procurement across every jurisdiction where you can go,
this is a short-term, you know, maybe one or two years,
it's a specific thing, where you can go direct. But
if you're talking about giving infrastructure... to an organisation without

(31:23):
any fair market approach, if you're talking about giving a
specific organisation a contract for services without a fair market process,
that is not okay.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
Wouldn't the process, wouldn't it actually be, if you and
the Federal Government have paid for it and it's sitting
on Northern Territory Government land, wouldn't it then be the
Northern Territory Government's infrastructure?

Speaker 3 (31:41):
Well, you would expect so, wouldn't you? But the catch was, no,
we want you, you will give that infrastructure to to
an Aboriginal corporation.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
So can I just clarify something? The $ 6. 5 million is
for the infrastructure that exists on the land.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
That's correct.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
And has there been an independent valuation of that infrastructure?

Speaker 3 (31:58):
So the Treasury undertook a valuation of what they considered
to be a fair market value. And I understand there's
some to-ing and fro-ing about the longevity of the infrastructure.
So if the infrastructure, which was originally built as a
mining camp, where you'd have individuals staying there for longer
periods of time, you know, blokes who basically were coming
there to sleep after they did their shifts, et cetera,

(32:18):
maybe it would last a bit longer. But the reality is,
and we've all got kids, the reality is we've got
high turnovers of families and, you know, lots of wear
and tear, which deteriorates the longevity of the infrastructure. And
we've spent $ 2 million over the last four years just
doing repairs and maintenance. So that gives you an indication

(32:39):
of just what the sort of challenges are at keeping
that infrastructure going. We were told that one of the
outgoing providers wanted a million dollars to make good the
infrastructure to meet the obligations to OSCO, just so they
could pull it down. So a million dollars, so that's
$ 3 million of RNM in just five and a half years.

(33:00):
And this is not a criticism of the people that
are living there. This is just the reality of a
high turnover environment where there are lots of kids, where
it's really not. are great, like they're single rooms, families
have to have their kids staying in rooms next to
each other. We've made a commitment that we will absolutely
look after those people. There will be a service provided
and we're just in the final stages of negotiating that.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
I mean, the hard part here is though, like, are
we going to be needing to build something for... those
families to go to. I know that when you and
I spoke throughout the week, you said that some of
those families, you know, they may be going to stay
with other family members or they may be going into
a public housing location. You know, so then for the
remainder or when we look more long-term about.

Speaker 3 (33:44):
The need for short-term accommodation? We don't need to build short-term.
We have a vision for the future, which... I'm excited about.
But so in the short, so just to be really clear,
so there's only, there's about 230 people left. One of
the benefits of what's happened in this particular situation is
that there have been people who have been on wait
lists for housing for a long time, because that's part

(34:06):
of what that facility is meant to do is kind
of get them tenancy ready, that we've actually, we've uncovered
a a stock of housing that we've been able to
offer to them.

Speaker 4 (34:15):
How?

Speaker 1 (34:16):
How have we uncovered a stock of housing that's been
sitting there?

Speaker 3 (34:19):
It's a really good question, right? But to me, I
would be.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
Fuming if I was on the public housing wait list
and I then heard that.

Speaker 3 (34:24):
Just as a for example, so Litchfield Court, which is
a project that the Department of Children and Families is
in partnership with Mission Australia at, which is, again, the
next step of supported tenancy for people. So they're almost
tenancy ready but not quite, so they still need a
little bit of wraparound. They had 17 units available. And so, yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
So they were just sitting there.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
Is Litchfield Court a place where– I know where it is.
I live just around the corner.

Speaker 5 (34:49):
I mean, is that the sort of place where you
want a mother with young.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
Children to be placed? There are lots of mums and
young children there. I know there are.

Speaker 5 (34:57):
But I think there are real– I mean, my understanding,
one of the good things about the Yissa is that
It's secure.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
Security.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
So Litchfield Court has that.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
Litchfield Court doesn't.

Speaker 5 (35:10):
Well, it might officially have that, but it doesn't really
have that.

Speaker 3 (35:14):
Well, it does because Mission Australia provide a service there.
So they're there. There's security on site. There's wraparound services.
There's assistance.

Speaker 5 (35:22):
I would argue that those things are not at anywhere
near the level that they need to be.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
At Litchfield Court.

Speaker 5 (35:29):
I think you need in that situation to have actually
a secure facility where no one can get past the
front gate unless they are approved.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
I think that's one of the problems that exists there.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
The families that have been assessed as ready for tenancy
but might need it. So, you know, you've got to
normalise their lives. You can't constantly have people who are
in a locked, secure facility. This whole concept, the concept
of the transition in Batten Road was it's six months.
And you spend six months getting these people ready to

(35:59):
be able to stand on their own two feet and
to move into the world, to get employment pathways, to
have independence. You know, you don't want them living in
a lockdown facility, which potentially you could call Baton Road,
all their lives. So what we did was identify people
who've been on the housing wait list for some years,
who the providers of that service felt were ready to

(36:21):
to move into the next step, which is what Batten
Road is meant to do, who have that additional level
of support. And I know Litchfield Court's had some challenges,
but it's these improvements in that place over the last
12 months have been quite significant. There's improved rental payments.
The tenants are becoming very house proud. They don't tolerate

(36:42):
bad behaviour. It's been a very long time since we've
had touch wood and incident.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
Well, that sure bloody well be the case. We're talking
about public housing where it's a privilege. It's not a right.
I mean, Manny, what did you want to say, though,
about the use of facility and the closure?

Speaker 4 (36:54):
While governments and everyone's having their say about contracts, people
are actually, vulnerable Territorians are actually waiting to see what's
happening to them next. I don't know what the date
is when it comes to them getting moved out, the
secure date. They're obviously the most vulnerable Territorian, so we

(37:15):
don't know what's going to happen with them and where
they're getting moved to. We've got Litchfield Court. Some people,
you know, that's too close to the pubs. There's a
lot of issues there. And the people are getting forgotten.

Speaker 6 (37:27):
You know.

Speaker 3 (37:27):
Well, I dispute they're not being forgotten. They are absolutely
front and centre. We are working very, very hard. I've
had weekly meetings with all of the proponents that are providing.
So Mission Australia, Yissa, we've talked about. There's been some
people where we think that there's more appropriate accommodation for,
for example, medically vulnerable. We have other facilities that you

(37:50):
can put those people into.

Speaker 6 (37:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:52):
We had people who were just trying to get home, Katie,
and we've helped them get home.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
Look, what I'm struggling to wrap my head around, though,
is if we've got like 380-odd people there to begin with,
I know it's down to about 200-odd, how on earth
we've then been able to find all these properties for
people to be able to move into? Like, what were
we doing before? You know, like what was happening before.
You just scratch your head. But in addition to that,

(38:16):
I do still think, you know, like this is not
a situation where once those people are moved out that
there's never going to be a need for short-term accommodation again.

Speaker 3 (38:25):
And there will be a short-term accommodation facility.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
But we don't know where yet. That's coming.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
That's in process.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
But nothing's being built.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
Not at this stage, no.

Speaker 4 (38:34):
Long term.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
Long term.

Speaker 3 (38:35):
When is the last day?

Speaker 4 (38:37):
October. October day?

Speaker 3 (38:40):
I think it's around the middle of October.

Speaker 4 (38:41):
Middle of the day, when it closes.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
Can I just put it out there, though? But from
what you have said, if we can get to a
figure of $ 6. 5 million, where those demountables then are in
the hands of the Northern Territory government, and if the
federal government pays.

Speaker 6 (38:58):
The $ 3. 5 million.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
And Ausco walks away. There's no strings attached. The Northern
Territory Government would be prepared to keep things going.

Speaker 3 (39:05):
That was the original offer that was indicated to me
by Senator McCarthy and it is not what we got
in writing.

Speaker 5 (39:12):
Does anyone have a problem with the fact that, I mean,
where's this $ 6.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
5 million figure come from?

Speaker 1 (39:17):
We've all been talking about that all week.

Speaker 5 (39:18):
If we're paying $ 6. 5 million when the value is $ 3. 5 million,
that's not good value for money.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
Just because there's a political stash going on. That's the
stance that we've taken. I find it astonishing that the
federal government would be willing to pay at any cost
because that's how we end up in the financial position
that we end up in here in the Territory. Well,
it's taxpayer money. It's taxpayer money. We deemed it to
be a fair market. Because let's actually add the other
component of that is it's not just the $ 3 million.

(39:45):
It's we've said to Ausco, you do not have to
make good. And the estimates for the cost of that
are anywhere from $ 3 to $ 5 million. So we're in
fact saying to them, we're going to give you $ 8
million worth of value. And that wasn't good enough for them.
And I'm going to ask the question, why is Senator
McCarthy so hell-bent on coming up with more money for

(40:05):
a private company.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
Well, I think it's more she's concerned about the families
is certainly the message that she got across to me.
Like that's more her worry.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
Well, if that was really what she's worried about, then
she would go, no strings attached. Here you go. Here's
their in writing. I've asked for it in writing. where
they've said they would walk away for 6.5 and no more.
I still haven't received that.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
Robin, we've had someone message through, don't dare put kids
and mums in Litchfield Court. They're highly, highly dangerous. Go
and live there. It's ridiculous, says that message.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
Absolutely agree. Would agree 100% with whoever that person is.

Speaker 4 (40:37):
Close to pubs.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
Yeah, look, you know, to me, I'm, you know, I'm
very aware that the asking cost of this to me
seems ridiculous. You know, it's like me saying I want
$ 10 million for my house. And that's how much I
want for it. I don't know whether it's worth that much,
but that's the amount I want. You know, just because
that's how much you want doesn't mean that's what it's worth. However,

(41:00):
I do have, you know, I've got concerns around then
the fact that we've got, and I know, Robin, you've
said that, you know, work is being done to transition
people into other housing and other accommodation. I just worry
that we are going to end up with people on
the streets. We are going to end up in a
situation where there are vulnerable people who've got nowhere to go,

(41:20):
where we end up that it's, you know, more dangerous
than it was to begin with.

Speaker 3 (41:24):
One of the things that I've discovered in the course
of these conversations because as a minister you don't often
get to really dig into the operational side of things
because they tell you that's not your business but there
you go I've made it my business but one of
the things that concerned me was that what we've actually
had is The clarity of what the number requirements are
is not there because what's happened in a number of

(41:45):
those accommodation units is people are there for the fixed time,
so the 28-day period, and they exit and then they
just get put back on and they rotate through. So
we've actually had a cohort of people rotating through over
successive periods. So my question is, well... what do those
people really want? Why are they in town? Can we
get them back into wherever their base is? Some of

(42:10):
the comments back would be, well, they don't want to
go back there, but they've got a house there, so
therefore they can't get on the housing list, say, in Darwin.
I say, okay, well, let's work with them to, if
they don't want to go back home, let's work with
them to say, okay, relinquish that one, then we can
get you on the list and we can get you
into the housing market here. So I think there's a
much deeper conversation that this situation has allowed us to

(42:32):
have that gives a much better understanding of what we're
dealing with. I was very concerned to hear that there
were some people staying there who are here for medical treatment.
There are much better options for those people. There are
some older folk there. There are better options for the
older folk too. So we're working really, really hard to
understand the profile and make sure that we are giving

(42:52):
the best possible option to everybody that's there. And it's
not just a churn.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
All right, we're going to have to take a quick break.
You are listening to Mix 1049's 360. It is the
week that was. If you've just joined us, well, you've
missed some robust discussion. And in the studio this morning,
we've got Rob and Carl, we've got Manuel Brown and
we've got Matt Cunningham. Now, before I let you go,
what did you think of the federal opposition's plan when
it comes to tobacco and what they would do? So

(43:19):
basically the tobacco excise would be cut by 80%. $ 200
million nationwide law enforcement surge will back more raids. They're
looking at basically, as I said, that slashing of the
excise on a standard packet of 20 cigarettes for about
$ 30 to $ 6. And they're looking at, well, vapes and

(43:39):
nicotine pouches being legalised. It was all a bit mind-blowing
for me yesterday. It's not a world I live in
when I heard that you're paying $ 30 on a pack
of 20 cigarettes in tax.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
I was like, oh, 30 bucks is just the tax. Yeah,
I think so.

Speaker 6 (43:56):
20 bucks.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
Oh, yeah, 30.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (43:59):
I don't necessarily think this is a bad idea, funnily enough.
I know Tanya Plibersek came out yesterday and said it
would kill people.

Speaker 6 (44:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (44:07):
You know, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
And you can see the intention that was behind jacking
up the excise on cigarettes so much to try to
get people to stop smoking. But, you know, the flip
side of that is it's created this black market.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
You see it here. You see it everywhere.

Speaker 5 (44:21):
Like these sort of convenience stores that have popped up,
you know, and they're there for one reason.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
And I know a couple of them have been.

Speaker 6 (44:30):
Yeah, well.

Speaker 5 (44:33):
A couple of them have been shut down, but I
think we've only scratched the surface because there's this black
market out there now where you can go in and
you can buy a packet of cigarettes for $ 15 as
opposed to paying $ 50 for it.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
Yeah, it's pretty wild.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
I've been on the tobacco battle for 30-odd years. I
set up with a good– colleague of mine who was
a previous health minister, Chris Byrne, before he was in politics,
we set up the NT Tobacco Control Coalition to really
address the fact that we have significant issues in the
territory around the impact of smoking on health. So I

(45:11):
think front and centre that has to be I don't
know what the evidence is as to why the Liberal
Party have come out with that policy. Maybe they know
something I don't know. And I think that what we
really have to be focusing on is making sure that
we actually make– that the environment is focused on keeping
people healthy. I think the vape message is really weird

(45:34):
because we've got these massive campaigns out there telling people,
not to vape because we don't know what's in that stuff.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
And I think it's a real battle with young people,
the vapes, you know, and well, every age, but certainly
the young ones.

Speaker 3 (45:45):
They taste like lollies.

Speaker 6 (45:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah. I don't know. It's an, it's going to be interesting. Um, Look,
I think I showed my naivety earlier in the week
when I had no idea how much a packet of
cigarettes even cost. My mind was blowing that you're paying
that much on bloody tax.

Speaker 4 (46:00):
Yeah, there's all these restrictions and all these changes. Indigenous communities,
you know, 150.

Speaker 3 (46:04):
Grams is $ 120.

Speaker 4 (46:06):
Even when we eat it.

Speaker 3 (46:10):
It's always been a challenge in the community.

Speaker 4 (46:12):
They'll always get it. They'll put that in front of...
in front of other things.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
And that has to be a concern as well.

Speaker 5 (46:19):
You know, the classic federal government policy where they make
these policies and people in the Northern Territory will scream
blue murder and.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
Go, what are you doing?

Speaker 6 (46:27):
What are you doing?

Speaker 2 (46:27):
It's going to be disastrous.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
And then they go ahead and do it anyway.

Speaker 3 (46:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
Oh, well, it'll be interesting.

Speaker 3 (46:33):
Let's see what happens. We will.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
Well, that's it for us.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
I will say we've had some very successful raids recently
on illegal tobacco sales. Yeah, we have. We very much have.
We're on it.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Well, good to have you all in the studio with
us this morning. Manuel Brown for the opposition.

Speaker 4 (46:45):
Thanks, Katie.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
Thanks for your time, mate. Thank you. Robin Carl, the
Minister for Children and Families and various other portfolios. Thank
you for your time.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
Can I just give a really Port Darwin plug? Is
that okay? Yeah, of course you can. We've got a
movie tonight in the Botanic Gardens for anyone who wants
to have a good night out with the family.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
What's the film?

Speaker 3 (46:59):
The movie is It, so there's some mum eye candy
in there as well.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
Oh, there you go.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
All right, there you go.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
I haven't heard that term before. Matt Cunningham.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
I can't top that wolfie.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
Good on you, mate. Good to have you in the studio.
We will take a bit of a break.