September 2, 2024 • 10 mins
Clairsy & Lisa continued their series about The History of Sound and today it was the format that has made a huge comeback in the past few years, vinyl. They spoke to sound expert Crispian Winsor about the rise and fall and re-rise of vinyl and how it actually works.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is a journey.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
It will sound pop up the valule Crazy releases the
History of Sound. This week we are looking at the
history of sound and the National Film and Sound Archive
of Australia has kindly teamed up with us to talk
all about it. Today we are looking at vinyl records.
I mean, who can forget doing this?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
That's a well worn one.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
That is well one I nicely sounded like that From
the National Film and Sound Archive of Australia.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Crispian Windsor, good morning, welcome, good.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Morning, Yes, good to talk to you both.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Now, when was the first vinyl record made?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
It was nineteen forty eight. That's when so it scens
start to get a bit different. They were slack records
up to that point, but then they wind records to
go a bit longer and to be made of more
of a durable quality, And nineteen forty eight was the
first time that was done. And I think they were
sold in nineteen forty.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Nine, include seventy eight and forty five.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
And well seventy eights, forty fives was slightly later, so
it was seventy eight. Still in nineteen forty eight, Yeah,
they were certainly around on shellac, but that was still
the standard in nineteen forty eight until they started to
get the bigger thirty three c three inches three up.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
In sorry yeah yeah, twelve inches and.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Seven inch discs which are forty five revolutions permittent correct.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Okay, so what can you explain what schillaci is for?
Speaker 4 (01:25):
Starta So when they were going from because I think
of a shalakan and the footy, what's what was she?
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Well it was a much different sort of piece of
material where it was very very brittle, and the sound
wasn't that great either, but it was very easy to
break and it didn't take much further things to for
sill act just to shatter this and yeah there, so
the sound wasn't fantastic either, so something had to be done.
(01:52):
I think at that point.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Why were there so many formats and recording lengths with
the vinyl album?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
There were a lot.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
It took them a long time to come up with
the sort of a standardized size and format. There were
some the speeds at points sometimes it was a slowest
sixty revolutions per minute, and even as fast as one
hundred and thirty revolutions permitute, which is pretty fast. It
(02:20):
took a long time. They really didn't. The records weren't
standardized to seventy eight RPM until muchs later, and then
in nineteen forty eight is when there standardized more into
seventiesh discs and twelve inch discs.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Yeah, absolutely move well, been into the second hand shop
or spoken to Nana and seeing those those really old
heavy things they've build.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, they were very weighty, very thick, weren't they.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Absolutely, Yeah, they're really heavy.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
I don't have any myself, but yeah, you can still
see them around in optops and things like that.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
At times, I was used to be fascinated by the
fact that my albums just had the little hole to put,
you know, over the you know, onto the record player,
and my dad's old seventy eight had like a big,
sort of elaborate pattern in the middle that was cut out.
Why are the different cutouts.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Well, that's a very American thing. Mainly it was just
for juke boxes. So the big yeah, we used to
juke boxes. You can still get them around. Some people
still make them with a bigger hole, but basically it
was for juke boxes in America primarily.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
And as also. Is that why they're measured in inches?
Just an American thing.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Totally, Yeah, and for some reason that never changed when
it went around the World's always changed. Yeah, seven inch
and twelve.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Inches because most of my twelve inch remix extended versions
that I waited six months to come to a ride,
those are coming from the UK.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
So yeah, yes, yes, you go, Christin.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
That's the reason.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
What about rock and roll? I mean rock and roll?
Speaker 4 (03:51):
You know, the music changed, and so did the way
that people, young people bought music so.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
That they really annoy their parents. It did change. The
distribution changed too.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
That it really did, and I think a lot of
that was to do with the portability of record players
as well. You start to get really small one so
people could sort of take any words at anybody's houses.
And vinyl really was a big revolution of that, especially
the forty the seven inch discs around that time. Singles
start to be extremely popular in the nineteen fifties from
the onset of rock and roll.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
When did the first vinyl pressing plant open in Australia.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Well, it was actually CBS Records later Sony in nineteen
fifty four. That was the first one, and there used
to be several, but now there's currently only three pressing
plants in Australia.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Oh wow, isn't it ya? It started to pick up
again in recent times, isn't it that's the thing it has.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, so there's one. There's two in Melburn, one called
Zennis and one called Program Vennis. Originally was called Corduroy
and that was around for a long time, but the
Program is fairly new, that's been about three or four years.
And there's also fairly new one in Brisbane called Suitcase Records.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, they are, of course, Vinyl albums making a huge company.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
What do you put it down to, Crispian I think I.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Think with when they were basically replaced by CDs, they're
very the artwork's very small on those, and then when
CDs start to go and be replaced by digital. I
think there's a lot of people, including myself, which just
loves the physical, physical product, and I think Vinyl with
the size, you know, it's a real effort to listen
(05:24):
to Vinyl in a way. I think a lot of
people really love that, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah, the learning experience all that, Yeah, the notes on
the album. You spent all day just lying there reading
that from the beginning to end.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Hear the lyrics. The lyrics now very important.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yeah, absolutely, and like I still remember lyrics now just
because I read them off vinyl back when I was
a kid, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Hey Christians, and they were correct. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
I just want to go one of the clock back
to sort of like a sort of wartime first and
the Second World War and beyond that, where servicemen from
the States would take blues records to the UK and
then they ended up with a whole lot of bands
like the Stones and that with the British invasion of
the US, so it went all the way back. But
they were pretty pretty remarkable. So many people traveled with
records that didn't break.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Yeah, absolutely, And I think that was part of the
issue with Sheilac originally like that. Yeah, I think that
that was the reason why. But you're absolutely right. I
think a lot of people credit that's sort of happening
with Liverpool and the Beatles getst so many records because
it was a port town.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
There were of course, the main drawback of them, as
we remember was they would scratch.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
And they would skip.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Was there were companies around the world trying the hardest
to come up with the you know, the magic answer
to that, because they would have made a you know,
a mozza.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
No one ever really did come up with an answer
to it, did they.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
No, they didn't, they didn't. I think the only thing
you can get around it is cleaning records from the
get go. I cleaned all my records, whether they're old
or new. And the way that gets rid of dust
and dust is a part of the problem where you
so to get skipping and to this extent, scratching. It's
hard to get rid of scratches, of course, but you
can get bit of dust and started quite easily when you.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Take it off, put it back in the bag, don't
just put it on the floorway the next one to
hear the end of that exactly.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Yeah, absolutely, I'm really born about all that stuff. But
I don't have kids, so that probably helped.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Chrispian whether a couple of recent changes have been the
heavier vinyl. Can you explain what that means, because you know,
people spend seventy eight eighty ninety dollars on an album
now and in recent weeks we've going away these one
step albums that we gave away the last four weeks,
so what's the technology there, what's going on with those?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
I guess a lot of those will be to do
with virgin vinyl, so they're not recycled. It's the first
batch of vinyl. It's that technically, that should mean it's
the best quality and there's nothing else happening happening to them,
so it's virgin vile. They are a lot heavier as
a result, and that's that's the way around. That is
just the better quality technically, the best quality you can get.
(08:00):
But but it does make them expensive.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, of course do you play vinyl at home or
are you a stream?
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Oh no, no, I do stream as well, but I'm
very much final. I've got quite quite a large vinyl
collection and only DJ vinyl was from What.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Was your first vinyl record?
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Yeah, I think I think it's hard to say, but
I believe it might have been this whole house by
Shaking Stephens.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
I think so well for the people here was a
green door. It was like it was like England's Elvis,
wasn't he for what time? That's great, we're not judging,
(08:47):
of course, I.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Have to say, it's not like I have it now.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
By the way, mine was probably arrival, so I wasn't
really idea.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
I played that to death.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
It's how's that only because my sister's bed for two
weeks and she goes, I'll buy you, and I reckon.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
I lasted about three days. You still bought it for me.
Very sweet, Great Christpian.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Thank you so much for giving us a bit more
insight into the history of vinyl. And it's good to
know that there are still some places in Australia pressing them.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah. Absolutely, And you can learn more about vinyl and
that Radio one hundred exhibition at an episode doc after.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Are you brilliant? Excellent? Thanks Christian, Thanks very much. By
I can't believe you know what is such a big
amaf fair everything ever, I had a sos Abber pillow case,
had a pillow case.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
Yeah, you have a lunchbox? Oh probably, Yeah, I wouldn't
surprise me. Have a T shirt the old Beyond those albums.
Can I be honest with you? When I was a
little kid, mile Man made a Beyond Star guitar.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
Out of wood Really he's pretty good? Would he made
a wooden starget tank? You couldn't play it had no strings.
You had said it on fire though you could send.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Wasn't. That wasn't really every star was it.
This is a journey.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
It will sound pop up the valule Crazy releases the
History of Sound. This week we are looking at the
history of sound and the National Film and Sound Archive
of Australia has kindly teamed up with us to talk
all about it. Today we are looking at vinyl records.
I mean, who can forget doing this?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
That's a well worn one.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
That is well one I nicely sounded like that From
the National Film and Sound Archive of Australia.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Crispian Windsor, good morning, welcome, good.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Morning, Yes, good to talk to you both.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Now, when was the first vinyl record made?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
It was nineteen forty eight. That's when so it scens
start to get a bit different. They were slack records
up to that point, but then they wind records to
go a bit longer and to be made of more
of a durable quality, And nineteen forty eight was the
first time that was done. And I think they were
sold in nineteen forty.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Nine, include seventy eight and forty five.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
And well seventy eights, forty fives was slightly later, so
it was seventy eight. Still in nineteen forty eight, Yeah,
they were certainly around on shellac, but that was still
the standard in nineteen forty eight until they started to
get the bigger thirty three c three inches three up.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
In sorry yeah yeah, twelve inches and.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Seven inch discs which are forty five revolutions permittent correct.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Okay, so what can you explain what schillaci is for?
Speaker 4 (01:25):
Starta So when they were going from because I think
of a shalakan and the footy, what's what was she?
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Well it was a much different sort of piece of
material where it was very very brittle, and the sound
wasn't that great either, but it was very easy to
break and it didn't take much further things to for
sill act just to shatter this and yeah there, so
the sound wasn't fantastic either, so something had to be done.
(01:52):
I think at that point.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Why were there so many formats and recording lengths with
the vinyl album?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
There were a lot.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
It took them a long time to come up with
the sort of a standardized size and format. There were
some the speeds at points sometimes it was a slowest
sixty revolutions per minute, and even as fast as one
hundred and thirty revolutions permitute, which is pretty fast. It
(02:20):
took a long time. They really didn't. The records weren't
standardized to seventy eight RPM until muchs later, and then
in nineteen forty eight is when there standardized more into
seventiesh discs and twelve inch discs.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Yeah, absolutely move well, been into the second hand shop
or spoken to Nana and seeing those those really old
heavy things they've build.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, they were very weighty, very thick, weren't they.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Absolutely, Yeah, they're really heavy.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
I don't have any myself, but yeah, you can still
see them around in optops and things like that.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
At times, I was used to be fascinated by the
fact that my albums just had the little hole to put,
you know, over the you know, onto the record player,
and my dad's old seventy eight had like a big,
sort of elaborate pattern in the middle that was cut out.
Why are the different cutouts.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Well, that's a very American thing. Mainly it was just
for juke boxes. So the big yeah, we used to
juke boxes. You can still get them around. Some people
still make them with a bigger hole, but basically it
was for juke boxes in America primarily.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
And as also. Is that why they're measured in inches?
Just an American thing.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Totally, Yeah, and for some reason that never changed when
it went around the World's always changed. Yeah, seven inch
and twelve.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Inches because most of my twelve inch remix extended versions
that I waited six months to come to a ride,
those are coming from the UK.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
So yeah, yes, yes, you go, Christin.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
That's the reason.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
What about rock and roll? I mean rock and roll?
Speaker 4 (03:51):
You know, the music changed, and so did the way
that people, young people bought music so.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
That they really annoy their parents. It did change. The
distribution changed too.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
That it really did, and I think a lot of
that was to do with the portability of record players
as well. You start to get really small one so
people could sort of take any words at anybody's houses.
And vinyl really was a big revolution of that, especially
the forty the seven inch discs around that time. Singles
start to be extremely popular in the nineteen fifties from
the onset of rock and roll.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
When did the first vinyl pressing plant open in Australia.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Well, it was actually CBS Records later Sony in nineteen
fifty four. That was the first one, and there used
to be several, but now there's currently only three pressing
plants in Australia.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Oh wow, isn't it ya? It started to pick up
again in recent times, isn't it that's the thing it has.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, so there's one. There's two in Melburn, one called
Zennis and one called Program Vennis. Originally was called Corduroy
and that was around for a long time, but the
Program is fairly new, that's been about three or four years.
And there's also fairly new one in Brisbane called Suitcase Records.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, they are, of course, Vinyl albums making a huge company.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
What do you put it down to, Crispian I think I.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Think with when they were basically replaced by CDs, they're
very the artwork's very small on those, and then when
CDs start to go and be replaced by digital. I
think there's a lot of people, including myself, which just
loves the physical, physical product, and I think Vinyl with
the size, you know, it's a real effort to listen
(05:24):
to Vinyl in a way. I think a lot of
people really love that, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah, the learning experience all that, Yeah, the notes on
the album. You spent all day just lying there reading
that from the beginning to end.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Hear the lyrics. The lyrics now very important.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yeah, absolutely, and like I still remember lyrics now just
because I read them off vinyl back when I was
a kid, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Hey Christians, and they were correct. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
I just want to go one of the clock back
to sort of like a sort of wartime first and
the Second World War and beyond that, where servicemen from
the States would take blues records to the UK and
then they ended up with a whole lot of bands
like the Stones and that with the British invasion of
the US, so it went all the way back. But
they were pretty pretty remarkable. So many people traveled with
records that didn't break.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Yeah, absolutely, And I think that was part of the
issue with Sheilac originally like that. Yeah, I think that
that was the reason why. But you're absolutely right. I
think a lot of people credit that's sort of happening
with Liverpool and the Beatles getst so many records because
it was a port town.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
There were of course, the main drawback of them, as
we remember was they would scratch.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
And they would skip.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Was there were companies around the world trying the hardest
to come up with the you know, the magic answer
to that, because they would have made a you know,
a mozza.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
No one ever really did come up with an answer
to it, did they.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
No, they didn't, they didn't. I think the only thing
you can get around it is cleaning records from the
get go. I cleaned all my records, whether they're old
or new. And the way that gets rid of dust
and dust is a part of the problem where you
so to get skipping and to this extent, scratching. It's
hard to get rid of scratches, of course, but you
can get bit of dust and started quite easily when you.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Take it off, put it back in the bag, don't
just put it on the floorway the next one to
hear the end of that exactly.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Yeah, absolutely, I'm really born about all that stuff. But
I don't have kids, so that probably helped.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Chrispian whether a couple of recent changes have been the
heavier vinyl. Can you explain what that means, because you know,
people spend seventy eight eighty ninety dollars on an album
now and in recent weeks we've going away these one
step albums that we gave away the last four weeks,
so what's the technology there, what's going on with those?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
I guess a lot of those will be to do
with virgin vinyl, so they're not recycled. It's the first
batch of vinyl. It's that technically, that should mean it's
the best quality and there's nothing else happening happening to them,
so it's virgin vile. They are a lot heavier as
a result, and that's that's the way around. That is
just the better quality technically, the best quality you can get.
(08:00):
But but it does make them expensive.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, of course do you play vinyl at home or
are you a stream?
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Oh no, no, I do stream as well, but I'm
very much final. I've got quite quite a large vinyl
collection and only DJ vinyl was from What.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Was your first vinyl record?
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Yeah, I think I think it's hard to say, but
I believe it might have been this whole house by
Shaking Stephens.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
I think so well for the people here was a
green door. It was like it was like England's Elvis,
wasn't he for what time? That's great, we're not judging,
(08:47):
of course, I.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Have to say, it's not like I have it now.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
By the way, mine was probably arrival, so I wasn't
really idea.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
I played that to death.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
It's how's that only because my sister's bed for two
weeks and she goes, I'll buy you, and I reckon.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
I lasted about three days. You still bought it for me.
Very sweet, Great Christpian.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Thank you so much for giving us a bit more
insight into the history of vinyl. And it's good to
know that there are still some places in Australia pressing them.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah. Absolutely, And you can learn more about vinyl and
that Radio one hundred exhibition at an episode doc after.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Are you brilliant? Excellent? Thanks Christian, Thanks very much. By
I can't believe you know what is such a big
amaf fair everything ever, I had a sos Abber pillow case,
had a pillow case.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
Yeah, you have a lunchbox? Oh probably, Yeah, I wouldn't
surprise me. Have a T shirt the old Beyond those albums.
Can I be honest with you? When I was a
little kid, mile Man made a Beyond Star guitar.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
Out of wood Really he's pretty good? Would he made
a wooden starget tank? You couldn't play it had no strings.
You had said it on fire though you could send.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Wasn't. That wasn't really every star was it.
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