November 26, 2025 • 30 mins
We're talking about feminism, power, and what it means to live – and work – alongside men in 2025.
After a huge emotional response to last week’s conversation with end-of-life vet Dr Lissi Kennedy, Amanda and Anita read some beautiful listener stories about saying goodbye to beloved pets, and the strange comfort (and guilt) that lingers years later.
Then they shift gears into a very different kind of raw nerve: a New York Times piece originally headlined “Did Women Ruin the Workforce?” Anita has actually listened to the podcast behind it – and she’s furious. They unpack ideas of “toxic femininity,” the conservative backlash to feminism, and why women are still being blamed for “ruining” everything from golf to marriage.
AUDIO GRAB**- Mia Findlay- Recovery Coach and Founder of Beyond Body- gives her take on a woman saying she wants to “dismantle the whole feminist movement”
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast is for general information only and should not
be taken as psychological advice. Listeners should consult with their
healthcare professionals for a specific medical advice. Hello.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I'm Amanda Keller and I'm Anita McGregor, and welcome to
Double A Chattery. And what an outpouring of love there
has been from you guys about the interview we did
with Lisa the End of Life, that who came on
our podcast last week. It's been very moving reading all
your stories, and it seems that a doesn't matter how
(00:46):
long ago it was that you had to say goodbye
to a treasured pet's This stuff is so raw for
so many and I don't think we took that into account, Anita,
when we spoke to Lissa, because so many people said,
oh God, I had to deal myself to listen to it.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
We thought that we were just stabbing ourselves, but we
really I think that there is a lot of people
who have to make some wise decisions about if and
how they listened to this podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, I got this email from Korean who said, I'm
waiting till tomorrow to listen to this. I discovered tonight
that my husband listens regularly. He warned me I'd need
tissues this week, so Alicia being looked after by him
in a way that we didn't protect you, and I
do apologize, but some of the comments were just so lovely.
We'll just go through some of them here. This is
from Jill. I'm so glad you girls did the episode
about having our beautiful Doggies put to sleep at home,
(01:35):
because some people don't know about that. We had our
beautiful boy Chopper put to sleep back in March at home,
just my husband and me and his sister Darcy, meaning
I think the dog's sister who's blind and relied on
him for everything. I had advice to have Darcy there
because dogs understand death and she would have gone looking
for him. We could tell she understood, and she grieved
(01:56):
with us for a while. He was surrounded by love
the vet and were absolutely wonderful. He had all of
the naughty food that day, a reef and beef and
Reese's peanut button cups. He left us with so much
and gave me the strength to let him go. Oh stop,
there we go again.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I scratch the service.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
It's all there for all.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Of us, and it was. It was interesting because Jill
was also the person who you know, just started posting
pictures of her dog, and then people just took it
on and there was just I just had such a
lovely time just looking at all the pictures of people
and their dogs. It was just it was everything.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, and I put up Mini, you put up the crunch.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, it was very sweet and I you know, when
I there were so many people who talked about that
process and how they're still grieving. But what I really
love is there are several people who identified like it's
better than take them out one month early than thirty
minutes too late. It says everything. And there was this,
(02:58):
you know, a person who said he didn't say or
I still am. There's really no comfort letting go of
your for a baby soul meat ever, And so you
realize that, you know, people were talking about losing their paths,
you know, years ago, and how it is still affecting
them Like grief is, you know, it exists in layers,
and I think with pats, especially when you've you know,
(03:19):
there've been such an integral part of your family, it's
just it's just hard.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Something you also touched on then is take the pressure
off yourself. This is what LIZI said, as well, take
the pressure off yourself in having to make the decision
as to win, because that's what a really good vet
will do for you. So you don't feel you're left
with this burden of making this terrible decision.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
You can't see it objectively, whereas a vent can come
in and help you to see. You know what's happening.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
And there are steps you can take to honor your
dog or cat, steps you can take to prepare yourself
actively for what's to come. I didn't want to talk
about any of it, and then I found myself thinking,
there will come a time and I'm going to need
a plan. I still don't know if I can think
about that.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Now, but I was so proud of you to even
think about doing that podcast because it was I knew
it was going.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
To be My dog's still alive. Yeah, but thank you
for that huge, huge response. And now Anita an entirely
different kettle of fish. Let's talk about feminism's There was
(04:37):
an article recently in the New York Times that was
a result of a podcast that New York Times did.
The headline was did women ruin the Workforce? There was
some backlash the headline was changed to have feminine vices
taken over the workplace, and then after further backlash, it
was did liberal feminism ruin this workplace? I don't even
(04:59):
know what those were word it's me.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
It's a very strange forum of backpedaling. I think because
they were trying to make it sound I think, less obnoxious,
but it just it's to me, it kind of stayed
at the same level of obnoxiousness.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Well, the people who were involved in this podcast here,
one was Helen Andrews. She's an American conservative political commentator
and author. Another one Leah Sergeant, she's a writer and
speaker focused on conservative values. And another man, Rosa do That,
who's an American autho columnist and commentator best known for
(05:35):
his work at The New York Times, but he used
to also work at The Atlantic. I'd like to think
the New York Times the Atlantic knew better. But you
actually listened to the podcast, I couldn't be bothered. What
did you hear?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Did? I listened to it on a road trip and
I came off the road, Oh, I go to see.
It kept me awake. I was so offended, and I
think maybe kind of as I mean, because I consider
myself an old school feminist. You know that I've.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Which is a terrible trope.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
It is a terrible trope, but it's but I mean,
the whole idea for me, it was actually, I mean,
good point of manna, but the you know, how we
see feminism. For me, feminism is just about trying to
go and keep our eyes open to how we see
men and women in the world. And and really what
(06:32):
I what offended me so much about this podcast was
the idea that these two women had politicized as they are.
You know, everybody in the States tends to be doing
right now is to politicize everything, and they were politicizing
feminism and to be very conservative and really kind of
(06:55):
stretching into ultra conservatism. And in particular one of the
women who were talking to Helen, she really had some
very conservative views on where where women belong and what
feminism should be, so she wasn't really keen on having
(07:15):
women in the workforce. Let's hear what Helen had to say.
What is toxic femininity?
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Gossiping, inability to deal with conflict directly and kind of
suppressing conflict, and aversion to directness, which naturally in a
workplace is a big problem because you need to be
able to give direct feedback to people, including negative feedback.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
I think some of what you're describing is not exclusively feminine,
you know, and it's strange to characterize it so strongly
in that direction. It's a product of human beings being
bad at group dynamics in a variety of ways that
men can fail at women can fail at.
Speaker 5 (07:58):
Is that the primary thing that you've is lost in
institutions that undergo what you're calling feminization, the failure to
seek truth.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
I think that's right, and I think that's why the
harms or perils of feminization have to be examined on
a case by case basis for each institution and discipline.
I think something like eighty percent of veterinary students are
women today. Are they doing a bad job at treating
the you do predict they are well. Actually, male veterinarians
(08:27):
are more likely to own their own practices, whereas female
veterinarians prefer not to because being an owner involves more
financial risk and longer and less flexible hours.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
And I'd have to say now that psychology is now
a female driven profession as well, So clearly we're going
to hell.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
We're all going to hell when we look at the stats.
This look at some Australian stats. The Australian Workplace Gender
or Quality Agency found that a ten percent increase in
female top tier managers led to a six point six
percent market value increase on as six listed companies. UK
research from last month found that inclusive workplaces have a
(09:05):
sixty eight percent increase in productivity. A twenty twenty two
study from the UK found that flexible working arrangements led
to a global productivity increase of up to fifty percent,
and the same report found that having a female CEO
was associated with a five percent increase in market value.
So where is the downside and having flexibility in a
(09:27):
workplace and having female attributes and female emotions the wokism
as they've said, into the workplace.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Well, the fact that we're still having to go and
provide statistics saying look, look, you know, women aren't homing
the workplace in an octageous I know. The fact that
we know we're somehow you know, doing good work, I mean,
and that this is surprising is surprising to me that
we would have to do this in you know, in
(09:55):
twenty twenty five. It just it surprises me that we
are still in this place.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
You are the only one who was surprised. He's some
of the beck lash against the New York Times.
Speaker 6 (10:05):
So I just want to say massive shame, shame shame
on the New York Times for running this terrible click
bait headline in a world where they know very well
that the majority of people are only reading headlines on
both their website and on social media, and they're planting
this terrible idea in people's heads just so they can
(10:26):
make something go viral.
Speaker 5 (10:27):
Publishing this during a time when our federal government is
literally being build dozed by the most mediocre, misogynistic men
with far too much audacity and far too few meds
and therapy for their rampant DSN diagnoses is certainly a choice.
Speaker 7 (10:43):
Women don't ruin anything. We build everything. Nothing exists without us,
nothing can be sustained without us. We are fifty one
percent of the population, with eighty percent of consumer buying
power and three trillion dollars in spend.
Speaker 8 (11:00):
Women ruin the workplace, Well, if you define ruin as
flexible hours were culture, that's more conducive to family and
just better mental health, more creativity, more probability, more collaboration,
and in medicine, better outcomes and fewer deaths than sure.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Women ruin the workplace? Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Wow, I'm just looking at some old headlines from things
that women have apparently ruined, Anita, So we.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Tell tell me what we've ruined.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I'll tell you what we've ruined. We are so powerful,
So yes, we've had Did women ruin the workplace? This
is an oldie? Are American women ruining the art of cooking?
Jack Nicholas says, women are ruining golf's future? Women are
ruining theater? Are women ruining the country? Will be the
topic of discussion at a symposium the hosting women ruining
(11:47):
the World as another headline, women.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
At higher World, Whole World.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Women are ruining marriage, Women are ruining America. Women are
ruining men, says editor, women are ruining military schools. As
a Navy candidate, this isn't a new trope, is it?
Speaker 1 (12:03):
No? No, absolutely not. And it's interesting that, like, I
don't know, I'd like to I'll tell you my theory
about why I think this is, and I'd love to
hear your theory on this. Is that I think that
it's lovely to be in a position of power. Men
historically have have managed a great deal of financial and
(12:28):
relationship power, you know, across the world, and we do
have a patriarchal system, and I think it's hard to
give it up. It's really really hard to give it up.
And I'm wondering if this whole backlash against women are
ruining things. I don't want to have to give up
my privileged position. Is part of this is that I
(12:51):
want to maintain it. So I'm going to kind of
lash out.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
What you like.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Do you think that that is merit? Do you think
that do you have a different idea?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
No, I think that's absolutely right. I thought it was
interesting my two sons went to a boys' school, not
necessarily by my choice. That happened to be a school
that had a great series of attributes. But not long
after they started high school, they'd started using words like feminazi.
Feminist was used as an insult, and they didn't know
(13:20):
really what they were saying. They were just saying what
they were hearing. When a collective group of boys got
together and I said to those I said, to those boys, picture,
I said, our household runs the way it does because
of feminism, I can go to work every day. Your
dad has the choice to be free lance and to
(13:41):
stay at home in the morning to look after you.
I'm paying school fees pretty much. These are the decisions
we made as a couple. Because your father's a feminist,
because I'm a feminist, and you grow up you were
growing up in a feminist household. I will not hear
any more of that talk. And all my sons are
in the twenties, they would never say those things. We
now have fabulous, achieving, funny, smart female friends. This was
(14:04):
just dumb stuff young boys say. But in the rising
tide of our Andrew takes there is a very scary
phenomenon that's come with this, and that is young women
who don't appreciate what feminism is. They think it's someone
being strident. They think it's anti male, and how long
have feminists been saying that's not what this is. This
(14:27):
is two young women discussing why they wanted to dismantle feminism.
And there's this other girl who comes straight enoughter she's
watched this and she's brilliant.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
We want to dismantle the whole feminism, the mess.
Speaker 8 (14:37):
We we are anti feminist.
Speaker 7 (14:39):
We've been anti feminist the whole time.
Speaker 9 (14:40):
You go first. You go first, You hand in your
microphone and your platforms, and you show us what dismantling
feminism really means. Because in order for you to have
access to that microphone, to that platform, and to benefit
or profit from your message and amplifying your message in
any way, marketing your message in any way, to need feminism.
(15:01):
So the first step to dismantling feminism is to stand
behind your own values and your own belief system and
to cut yourself off from any ability to have any
kind of autonomy, and that includes financial autonomy. And I'm
going to need you to go first, because it just
seems incredibly ironic that the women who are championing and
(15:25):
proliferating the ideals of traadwifery and these conservative values are
the first ones to profit from it, which you can
only do if you are standing on the shoulders of feminists.
So you go first.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Brilliant bravo email to that.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
We will put the details of that young woman who
spoke so beautifully at the end of this podcast. I
think she's amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
I think her a point about that we forrig out
about the shoulders of the women who fought hard to
you know, earn rights to have a say, to just
be considered is just if we if we forget that,
I cannot imagine where we will go to if we
(16:18):
if we continue to go and forget that.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
I want a privileged position to be able to forget that.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Oh and I, you know, you and I a man,
have had conversations about our our work lives when we
were younger, and and you know, I certainly, uh work
in a very male dominated system, you know, and we
were prisons. I worked in prisons, and the some of
the behavior that I was exposed to was unbelievable. And
(16:47):
it's you know, I can, I can really, you know,
I realized that I was, you know, in a difficult position.
There was at one point in my career, I was
the first woman to run a segregation unit in a
men's maximum security prison. And it was it was so hard, Amanda.
(17:11):
It was just so hard.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Because I made it so hard for you, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I It's interesting because I actually was treated with quite
a bit of respect from the offenders, but it was
it was the staff. It was all the male staff,
and they made they made my life very very difficult,
and you know, I think about that that would never
that would not happen. Likely, I hope it would never
(17:37):
happen here in Australia, nor in Canada where that happened.
But it's it's hard to imagine that that was really
only thirty some years ago, like it was not, you know,
generations ago.
Speaker 5 (17:52):
This was just.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Recent, really in recent memory.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
As an adjunct to that, or maybe a reaction to
to all of this and the tradwife kind of staff.
There's been also a spate of women on social media,
and there's an article in Vogue about this. Is having
a boyfriend embarrassing now is the name of the article,
But what they're saying and what people are responding to
in this is a whole lot of social media has
(18:17):
been about women defining themselves in an aspirational way by
their boyfriends. Here I am with my boyfriend on holidays.
Here we are drinking pinacoladas around a pool. Here we
are whatever. Young women now are posting their lives without
men in them, and they're saying how much better it is,
And some of the comments here, I'm so glad women
aren't shamed for being single. The single cat lady isn't
(18:39):
an insult. Women are free to choose themselves or companionship
out of their own free will. It's not embarrassing to
have a boyfriend, says one. It's embarrassing to make the
relationship your whole personality. So there's a slight shift there.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
So, of course, I mean, of course women can live
the lives in the way that they want to. But
it's thanks to feminism, well thanks to and to me. Though,
I think it's actually kind of sad the thought that
they're removing themselves from the discussion. They're just kind of saying,
I'm giving up on men, I'm giving up on people.
(19:14):
I'm giving up on all the things that make in
lots of ways that make life worthwhile. I think is
by being in connection with people, men included, women included.
I just that actually kind of it makes me kind
of sad to hear that.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Well, then, how do you feel about this? I read
an article the other day about a woman in Japan.
She walked down the aisle wearing ai glasses that allowed
her and the congregation because it was projected up on
the screen to see her anime boyfriend, who looked like
he was straight out of a cartoon a young chiseled
you know, anime character, but she that wings no no
(19:52):
about as. I'd understand that if it was very poorn,
I'd get it. But she'd had a long relationship with him.
And a huge number of young people now are having
relationships with AI with chat GPT. And this is what
I find so interesting is that because I was listening
to a Spotify playlist and I thought, how does my
(20:12):
Spotify know me so well?
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Because I've taught it.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
To know me.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
I've given up I've given up my favorites, I've given
it my personality to feedback to me. And in the
early stages of a relationship, that's what we get. We
see ourselves reflected in someone's eyes. And then real life
kicks in, and no one can do that for you
because humanity and human beings and another personality is involved.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Whereas in our humans and there's.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Another fully fledged human who has their own opinion about you,
Whereas in AI, you're seeing everything that you love about
yourself reflected back at you. And I wondered if this
is the female equivalent of the sex doll. Here is
this woman marrying her AI, and that's all she wants
is a companion who sees her, who gets her, who
(21:01):
has all those emotional needs. Because men these days, we
don't need them buy and large to provide for us.
We don't need them to hang around while we have
babies because chances are they may not. We don't need
them for the security, and so we actually turn to
them to be as you just said, and eat it
for human connection, to share our lives. And if you're
(21:22):
not going to get that, people are turning to anime.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
I have this investment opportunity for a you amount.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
I'm ready to do it. I've got my checkbook out.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
We're going to go and buy an island somewhere so
women can just move there like and we're just going
to call ourselves Amazonian women.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
What will we do?
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Anita ride horses and I don't know, go for walks
on the piece. I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
I like the sound of it. Are they our options?
AI or Amazonian island?
Speaker 1 (21:52):
We could maybe read a book maybe or two, and
have some wine. I think that.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
See, I get it. I get it why a woman
would want to be a lesbian. But you don't even
have to have the sex bit. You can just have
the companion. The companionship.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yeah, absolutely, But I mean this is what this woman
you know who's marrying per Ai Avatar is looking at,
is saying, I'm going to have a relationship basically with myself.
You know, somebody who's going to agree with me, Somebody
who has the same interests as me. Somebody who does
the same things, wants to watch the same TV show,
(22:24):
likes to you know, you know, eat the same obviously
not gonna eat food, but you know, like doesn't have
any kind of disagreements. I mean, that's not a relationship.
That's not real.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
It doesn't matter in the same way we discussed the
sex doll. Does it matter because it's offensive as a
woman to think some guy would prefer that. How would
men feel hearing? Well, I don't need you because I've
got a version of myself.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I just you know, to me, that's not a relationship.
A relationship is where you're challenging each other to grow,
You're disagreeing with each other, and you're finding some solutions
that you can go and cope with your disagreement. You're
doing all those things that you're not getting with that
kind of relationship, or in fact your relationship at all,
which is what some people women are choosing too, apparently so.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
But if life's hard, If life's hard, you're working in
a workplace where you know you're not appreciated. We've just
heard about how all that's going. Why not head home
to put on your AI glass, get a packet of chips,
and watch TV with someone who loves you, which happens
to be either.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
A cat or AI. I mean, I think there's probably
times in one's lives we're making that choice about I
want to be single, I want to figure out who
I am, I want to do all those kinds of
you know, or I'm committing myself to my career. I
guess those are legitimate decisions. But I wonder, you know,
(23:48):
if on your deathbed, you're going to look back and say,
I'm really going to I bet my avatar is really
going to miss me.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
My boyfriend's out of batteries, He's going.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
To run out of batteries. Yeah, Like it's a weird.
It is a weird thing that I mean, part of
it is like what will we regret? Maybe, you know,
people will get to the end of their lives and
they won't regret having no relationship or you know, no
intimate relationship or no relationship with a human being. I
don't know. I just it seems a little empty to me.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
You Oh yeah, I think so too. I can see
the appeal of it. But this is what we discussed.
We spoke about the post COVID world. You said something
that really stuck with me where you said, think of
the best times in your life. Have they been sitting
at home on the counch or have they been those
unexpected nights where you go out and you have fun.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, and if you choose the insular version, you're going
to miss out on a lot.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah. And again, I mean everybody is going to find
their own proportion of you know, I want to stay
at home and you know, eat chips and watch a
bad TV show versus I'm going to go out and
you know, be with my friends, or I'm going to
go and take a course, or I'm going to you know,
try a new hobby or something. I mean, I think
that we're all we'll all find that balance and all
(25:10):
of the you know, our balance might be different a
person to person, but really I think just sitting without
any challenge in our lives is an empty life.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
So do you think in light of all we've spoken
about the meandering road we've taken today in terms of feminism,
in terms of modern men, modern women, where we all
meet in the middle, there's still a drive for connection
and sex and and and a relationship.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
I hope, So, I really hope.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
So.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
I mean there are days where I am, you know, challenged,
and feel a little less optimistic, But overall, I mean,
I you know, my work with the students, I you know,
most of the time, I'm filled with optimism. I'm filled
with you know, here's this young generation and they're figuring
(26:02):
it out.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Just like we did, no matter what those other bits
and pieces that come to player.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Yeah, the challenges are different. But you know, I hope
that they figured it out, and I hope that they
have some appreciation of the shoulders that you know, that
they will be standing on as they make their way
into the world.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Well, if they're children of the eighties, will be standing
on shoulder pads.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Absolutely, it's more comfortable though.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Absolutely. Should we get to our glimmers, that's I think
we can have a collective glimmer, Anita, that's you, me
and our tea cups. Because you said something to me
on the weekend. That made me sad but optimistic. We
were at a Christmas market in the boiling sun. Actually
(26:48):
the sun took us by surprise, so the only hats
we could buy were children's hats, So we walked around
in children's buckets hats for the day.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
We were so attractive about it.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
It was hard, a little arranged. But while we were there,
you said, after being Canadian, funnily enough and having all,
even though you've been in Australia for fifteen sixteen.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Years, almost twenty almost twenty years.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
That it still doesn't feel like Christmas for you.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
It doesn't.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
And I understand that popular culture for us is we
still see pictures of snow, of cold weather, of crunchy
bits and pieces and eggnog, of all of that. And
in Australia, our triggers for Christmas are different.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
We have school.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Holidays, we all relax, we put up Christmas decorations in
the heat, we eat seafood. Our triggers are different to yours.
Very and you were wondering what you could do to
feel more christmasy.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
It was like my sister in law told me earlier
this morning, and she was feastiming with me because She
wanted to show me that. She was so excited. She
was trying to put up her Christmas decorations and it's
not yet December. She was so proud of herself. I
was so proud of her. It was and I knew that,
you know, the late was starting to come down. It
was early afternoon.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
For her.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
It was you know, it's Christmas. And I could feel
her excitement. But then I look outside and it's like
a zillion degrees and it just doesn't feel like Christmas
at all.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I wonder what other people in your circumstances have done,
because I get it we have a very different kind
of Christmas. Like near the beach, you'll see backpackers who
think it's what a novelty. They'll go swimming and take
photos for their families. There they are with the Santa
hats on, with a couch set up on the beach,
and one of them is dressed as Santa. But they're
(28:38):
doing that for one year, for one Christmas, and they
send the photos home, going what a novelty? Yeah, if
that's your every Christmas, I can see why it's disappointing.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Well, I want to feel christmasy. I want to have
that feeling again. I want to and I know, I mean,
it's so exciting. I'm going to be spending Christmas with
my you know, with my son, my daughter and my
two grandchild children. We're also going to have a fake
Christmas because my son from Canada and his and his
(29:08):
partner are coming in for Christmas. Yes, so we're doing Yeah,
We're going to do, you know, a first Christmas. So
I love that, but I would love to have that
sense of Christmas with it. And so I am hoping
that the teacups can kind of help me have some
ideas about how to get into the into the holiday spirit.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Should you sit in an ice bath and we go, sucker,
that's how cold you'd be?
Speaker 8 (29:35):
It?
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Is it about embracing you know, going and getting you know,
standing in line for prawns? Is it? Is it about
I don't know what it is, but I'm just looking
for some ideas about how I can really embrace it.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Is it anita walking barefoot on some bindies and as
you say, queuing from prawns? And is it getting sun
burned and drunk in the middle of the day and
then lying in the sun and hating yourself? What are
the marks of Christmas that can help get Anita over
the line here. We'd love you let us no, so
please contact us on our socials.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
At Double A Chattery. Please do see you next time
here
This podcast is for general information only and should not
be taken as psychological advice. Listeners should consult with their
healthcare professionals for a specific medical advice. Hello.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I'm Amanda Keller and I'm Anita McGregor, and welcome to
Double A Chattery. And what an outpouring of love there
has been from you guys about the interview we did
with Lisa the End of Life, that who came on
our podcast last week. It's been very moving reading all
your stories, and it seems that a doesn't matter how
(00:46):
long ago it was that you had to say goodbye
to a treasured pet's This stuff is so raw for
so many and I don't think we took that into account, Anita,
when we spoke to Lissa, because so many people said,
oh God, I had to deal myself to listen to it.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
We thought that we were just stabbing ourselves, but we
really I think that there is a lot of people
who have to make some wise decisions about if and
how they listened to this podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, I got this email from Korean who said, I'm
waiting till tomorrow to listen to this. I discovered tonight
that my husband listens regularly. He warned me I'd need
tissues this week, so Alicia being looked after by him
in a way that we didn't protect you, and I
do apologize, but some of the comments were just so lovely.
We'll just go through some of them here. This is
from Jill. I'm so glad you girls did the episode
about having our beautiful Doggies put to sleep at home,
(01:35):
because some people don't know about that. We had our
beautiful boy Chopper put to sleep back in March at home,
just my husband and me and his sister Darcy, meaning
I think the dog's sister who's blind and relied on
him for everything. I had advice to have Darcy there
because dogs understand death and she would have gone looking
for him. We could tell she understood, and she grieved
(01:56):
with us for a while. He was surrounded by love
the vet and were absolutely wonderful. He had all of
the naughty food that day, a reef and beef and
Reese's peanut button cups. He left us with so much
and gave me the strength to let him go. Oh stop,
there we go again.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I scratch the service.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
It's all there for all.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Of us, and it was. It was interesting because Jill
was also the person who you know, just started posting
pictures of her dog, and then people just took it
on and there was just I just had such a
lovely time just looking at all the pictures of people
and their dogs. It was just it was everything.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, and I put up Mini, you put up the crunch.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, it was very sweet and I you know, when
I there were so many people who talked about that
process and how they're still grieving. But what I really
love is there are several people who identified like it's
better than take them out one month early than thirty
minutes too late. It says everything. And there was this,
(02:58):
you know, a person who said he didn't say or
I still am. There's really no comfort letting go of
your for a baby soul meat ever, And so you
realize that, you know, people were talking about losing their paths,
you know, years ago, and how it is still affecting
them Like grief is, you know, it exists in layers,
and I think with pats, especially when you've you know,
(03:19):
there've been such an integral part of your family, it's
just it's just hard.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Something you also touched on then is take the pressure
off yourself. This is what LIZI said, as well, take
the pressure off yourself in having to make the decision
as to win, because that's what a really good vet
will do for you. So you don't feel you're left
with this burden of making this terrible decision.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
You can't see it objectively, whereas a vent can come
in and help you to see. You know what's happening.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
And there are steps you can take to honor your
dog or cat, steps you can take to prepare yourself
actively for what's to come. I didn't want to talk
about any of it, and then I found myself thinking,
there will come a time and I'm going to need
a plan. I still don't know if I can think
about that.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Now, but I was so proud of you to even
think about doing that podcast because it was I knew
it was going.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
To be My dog's still alive. Yeah, but thank you
for that huge, huge response. And now Anita an entirely
different kettle of fish. Let's talk about feminism's There was
(04:37):
an article recently in the New York Times that was
a result of a podcast that New York Times did.
The headline was did women ruin the Workforce? There was
some backlash the headline was changed to have feminine vices
taken over the workplace, and then after further backlash, it
was did liberal feminism ruin this workplace? I don't even
(04:59):
know what those were word it's me.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
It's a very strange forum of backpedaling. I think because
they were trying to make it sound I think, less obnoxious,
but it just it's to me, it kind of stayed
at the same level of obnoxiousness.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Well, the people who were involved in this podcast here,
one was Helen Andrews. She's an American conservative political commentator
and author. Another one Leah Sergeant, she's a writer and
speaker focused on conservative values. And another man, Rosa do That,
who's an American autho columnist and commentator best known for
(05:35):
his work at The New York Times, but he used
to also work at The Atlantic. I'd like to think
the New York Times the Atlantic knew better. But you
actually listened to the podcast, I couldn't be bothered. What
did you hear?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Did? I listened to it on a road trip and
I came off the road, Oh, I go to see.
It kept me awake. I was so offended, and I
think maybe kind of as I mean, because I consider
myself an old school feminist. You know that I've.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Which is a terrible trope.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
It is a terrible trope, but it's but I mean,
the whole idea for me, it was actually, I mean,
good point of manna, but the you know, how we
see feminism. For me, feminism is just about trying to
go and keep our eyes open to how we see
men and women in the world. And and really what
(06:32):
I what offended me so much about this podcast was
the idea that these two women had politicized as they are.
You know, everybody in the States tends to be doing
right now is to politicize everything, and they were politicizing
feminism and to be very conservative and really kind of
(06:55):
stretching into ultra conservatism. And in particular one of the
women who were talking to Helen, she really had some
very conservative views on where where women belong and what
feminism should be, so she wasn't really keen on having
(07:15):
women in the workforce. Let's hear what Helen had to say.
What is toxic femininity?
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Gossiping, inability to deal with conflict directly and kind of
suppressing conflict, and aversion to directness, which naturally in a
workplace is a big problem because you need to be
able to give direct feedback to people, including negative feedback.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
I think some of what you're describing is not exclusively feminine,
you know, and it's strange to characterize it so strongly
in that direction. It's a product of human beings being
bad at group dynamics in a variety of ways that
men can fail at women can fail at.
Speaker 5 (07:58):
Is that the primary thing that you've is lost in
institutions that undergo what you're calling feminization, the failure to
seek truth.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
I think that's right, and I think that's why the
harms or perils of feminization have to be examined on
a case by case basis for each institution and discipline.
I think something like eighty percent of veterinary students are
women today. Are they doing a bad job at treating
the you do predict they are well. Actually, male veterinarians
(08:27):
are more likely to own their own practices, whereas female
veterinarians prefer not to because being an owner involves more
financial risk and longer and less flexible hours.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
And I'd have to say now that psychology is now
a female driven profession as well, So clearly we're going
to hell.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
We're all going to hell when we look at the stats.
This look at some Australian stats. The Australian Workplace Gender
or Quality Agency found that a ten percent increase in
female top tier managers led to a six point six
percent market value increase on as six listed companies. UK
research from last month found that inclusive workplaces have a
(09:05):
sixty eight percent increase in productivity. A twenty twenty two
study from the UK found that flexible working arrangements led
to a global productivity increase of up to fifty percent,
and the same report found that having a female CEO
was associated with a five percent increase in market value.
So where is the downside and having flexibility in a
(09:27):
workplace and having female attributes and female emotions the wokism
as they've said, into the workplace.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Well, the fact that we're still having to go and
provide statistics saying look, look, you know, women aren't homing
the workplace in an octageous I know. The fact that
we know we're somehow you know, doing good work, I mean,
and that this is surprising is surprising to me that
we would have to do this in you know, in
(09:55):
twenty twenty five. It just it surprises me that we
are still in this place.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
You are the only one who was surprised. He's some
of the beck lash against the New York Times.
Speaker 6 (10:05):
So I just want to say massive shame, shame shame
on the New York Times for running this terrible click
bait headline in a world where they know very well
that the majority of people are only reading headlines on
both their website and on social media, and they're planting
this terrible idea in people's heads just so they can
(10:26):
make something go viral.
Speaker 5 (10:27):
Publishing this during a time when our federal government is
literally being build dozed by the most mediocre, misogynistic men
with far too much audacity and far too few meds
and therapy for their rampant DSN diagnoses is certainly a choice.
Speaker 7 (10:43):
Women don't ruin anything. We build everything. Nothing exists without us,
nothing can be sustained without us. We are fifty one
percent of the population, with eighty percent of consumer buying
power and three trillion dollars in spend.
Speaker 8 (11:00):
Women ruin the workplace, Well, if you define ruin as
flexible hours were culture, that's more conducive to family and
just better mental health, more creativity, more probability, more collaboration,
and in medicine, better outcomes and fewer deaths than sure.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Women ruin the workplace? Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Wow, I'm just looking at some old headlines from things
that women have apparently ruined, Anita, So we.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Tell tell me what we've ruined.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I'll tell you what we've ruined. We are so powerful,
So yes, we've had Did women ruin the workplace? This
is an oldie? Are American women ruining the art of cooking?
Jack Nicholas says, women are ruining golf's future? Women are
ruining theater? Are women ruining the country? Will be the
topic of discussion at a symposium the hosting women ruining
(11:47):
the World as another headline, women.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
At higher World, Whole World.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Women are ruining marriage, Women are ruining America. Women are
ruining men, says editor, women are ruining military schools. As
a Navy candidate, this isn't a new trope, is it?
Speaker 1 (12:03):
No? No, absolutely not. And it's interesting that, like, I
don't know, I'd like to I'll tell you my theory
about why I think this is, and I'd love to
hear your theory on this. Is that I think that
it's lovely to be in a position of power. Men
historically have have managed a great deal of financial and
(12:28):
relationship power, you know, across the world, and we do
have a patriarchal system, and I think it's hard to
give it up. It's really really hard to give it up.
And I'm wondering if this whole backlash against women are
ruining things. I don't want to have to give up
my privileged position. Is part of this is that I
(12:51):
want to maintain it. So I'm going to kind of
lash out.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
What you like.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Do you think that that is merit? Do you think
that do you have a different idea?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
No, I think that's absolutely right. I thought it was
interesting my two sons went to a boys' school, not
necessarily by my choice. That happened to be a school
that had a great series of attributes. But not long
after they started high school, they'd started using words like feminazi.
Feminist was used as an insult, and they didn't know
(13:20):
really what they were saying. They were just saying what
they were hearing. When a collective group of boys got
together and I said to those I said, to those boys, picture,
I said, our household runs the way it does because
of feminism, I can go to work every day. Your
dad has the choice to be free lance and to
(13:41):
stay at home in the morning to look after you.
I'm paying school fees pretty much. These are the decisions
we made as a couple. Because your father's a feminist,
because I'm a feminist, and you grow up you were
growing up in a feminist household. I will not hear
any more of that talk. And all my sons are
in the twenties, they would never say those things. We
now have fabulous, achieving, funny, smart female friends. This was
(14:04):
just dumb stuff young boys say. But in the rising
tide of our Andrew takes there is a very scary
phenomenon that's come with this, and that is young women
who don't appreciate what feminism is. They think it's someone
being strident. They think it's anti male, and how long
have feminists been saying that's not what this is. This
(14:27):
is two young women discussing why they wanted to dismantle feminism.
And there's this other girl who comes straight enoughter she's
watched this and she's brilliant.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
We want to dismantle the whole feminism, the mess.
Speaker 8 (14:37):
We we are anti feminist.
Speaker 7 (14:39):
We've been anti feminist the whole time.
Speaker 9 (14:40):
You go first. You go first, You hand in your
microphone and your platforms, and you show us what dismantling
feminism really means. Because in order for you to have
access to that microphone, to that platform, and to benefit
or profit from your message and amplifying your message in
any way, marketing your message in any way, to need feminism.
(15:01):
So the first step to dismantling feminism is to stand
behind your own values and your own belief system and
to cut yourself off from any ability to have any
kind of autonomy, and that includes financial autonomy. And I'm
going to need you to go first, because it just
seems incredibly ironic that the women who are championing and
(15:25):
proliferating the ideals of traadwifery and these conservative values are
the first ones to profit from it, which you can
only do if you are standing on the shoulders of feminists.
So you go first.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Brilliant bravo email to that.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
We will put the details of that young woman who
spoke so beautifully at the end of this podcast. I
think she's amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
I think her a point about that we forrig out
about the shoulders of the women who fought hard to
you know, earn rights to have a say, to just
be considered is just if we if we forget that,
I cannot imagine where we will go to if we
(16:18):
if we continue to go and forget that.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
I want a privileged position to be able to forget that.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Oh and I, you know, you and I a man,
have had conversations about our our work lives when we
were younger, and and you know, I certainly, uh work
in a very male dominated system, you know, and we
were prisons. I worked in prisons, and the some of
the behavior that I was exposed to was unbelievable. And
(16:47):
it's you know, I can, I can really, you know,
I realized that I was, you know, in a difficult position.
There was at one point in my career, I was
the first woman to run a segregation unit in a
men's maximum security prison. And it was it was so hard, Amanda.
(17:11):
It was just so hard.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Because I made it so hard for you, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I It's interesting because I actually was treated with quite
a bit of respect from the offenders, but it was
it was the staff. It was all the male staff,
and they made they made my life very very difficult,
and you know, I think about that that would never
that would not happen. Likely, I hope it would never
(17:37):
happen here in Australia, nor in Canada where that happened.
But it's it's hard to imagine that that was really
only thirty some years ago, like it was not, you know,
generations ago.
Speaker 5 (17:52):
This was just.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Recent, really in recent memory.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
As an adjunct to that, or maybe a reaction to
to all of this and the tradwife kind of staff.
There's been also a spate of women on social media,
and there's an article in Vogue about this. Is having
a boyfriend embarrassing now is the name of the article,
But what they're saying and what people are responding to
in this is a whole lot of social media has
(18:17):
been about women defining themselves in an aspirational way by
their boyfriends. Here I am with my boyfriend on holidays.
Here we are drinking pinacoladas around a pool. Here we
are whatever. Young women now are posting their lives without
men in them, and they're saying how much better it is,
And some of the comments here, I'm so glad women
aren't shamed for being single. The single cat lady isn't
(18:39):
an insult. Women are free to choose themselves or companionship
out of their own free will. It's not embarrassing to
have a boyfriend, says one. It's embarrassing to make the
relationship your whole personality. So there's a slight shift there.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
So, of course, I mean, of course women can live
the lives in the way that they want to. But
it's thanks to feminism, well thanks to and to me. Though,
I think it's actually kind of sad the thought that
they're removing themselves from the discussion. They're just kind of saying,
I'm giving up on men, I'm giving up on people.
(19:14):
I'm giving up on all the things that make in
lots of ways that make life worthwhile. I think is
by being in connection with people, men included, women included.
I just that actually kind of it makes me kind
of sad to hear that.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Well, then, how do you feel about this? I read
an article the other day about a woman in Japan.
She walked down the aisle wearing ai glasses that allowed
her and the congregation because it was projected up on
the screen to see her anime boyfriend, who looked like
he was straight out of a cartoon a young chiseled
you know, anime character, but she that wings no no
(19:52):
about as. I'd understand that if it was very poorn,
I'd get it. But she'd had a long relationship with him.
And a huge number of young people now are having
relationships with AI with chat GPT. And this is what
I find so interesting is that because I was listening
to a Spotify playlist and I thought, how does my
(20:12):
Spotify know me so well?
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Because I've taught it.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
To know me.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
I've given up I've given up my favorites, I've given
it my personality to feedback to me. And in the
early stages of a relationship, that's what we get. We
see ourselves reflected in someone's eyes. And then real life
kicks in, and no one can do that for you
because humanity and human beings and another personality is involved.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Whereas in our humans and there's.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Another fully fledged human who has their own opinion about you,
Whereas in AI, you're seeing everything that you love about
yourself reflected back at you. And I wondered if this
is the female equivalent of the sex doll. Here is
this woman marrying her AI, and that's all she wants
is a companion who sees her, who gets her, who
(21:01):
has all those emotional needs. Because men these days, we
don't need them buy and large to provide for us.
We don't need them to hang around while we have
babies because chances are they may not. We don't need
them for the security, and so we actually turn to
them to be as you just said, and eat it
for human connection, to share our lives. And if you're
(21:22):
not going to get that, people are turning to anime.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
I have this investment opportunity for a you amount.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
I'm ready to do it. I've got my checkbook out.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
We're going to go and buy an island somewhere so
women can just move there like and we're just going
to call ourselves Amazonian women.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
What will we do?
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Anita ride horses and I don't know, go for walks
on the piece. I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
I like the sound of it. Are they our options?
AI or Amazonian island?
Speaker 1 (21:52):
We could maybe read a book maybe or two, and
have some wine. I think that.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
See, I get it. I get it why a woman
would want to be a lesbian. But you don't even
have to have the sex bit. You can just have
the companion. The companionship.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yeah, absolutely, But I mean this is what this woman
you know who's marrying per Ai Avatar is looking at,
is saying, I'm going to have a relationship basically with myself.
You know, somebody who's going to agree with me, Somebody
who has the same interests as me. Somebody who does
the same things, wants to watch the same TV show,
(22:24):
likes to you know, you know, eat the same obviously
not gonna eat food, but you know, like doesn't have
any kind of disagreements. I mean, that's not a relationship.
That's not real.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
It doesn't matter in the same way we discussed the
sex doll. Does it matter because it's offensive as a
woman to think some guy would prefer that. How would
men feel hearing? Well, I don't need you because I've
got a version of myself.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I just you know, to me, that's not a relationship.
A relationship is where you're challenging each other to grow,
You're disagreeing with each other, and you're finding some solutions
that you can go and cope with your disagreement. You're
doing all those things that you're not getting with that
kind of relationship, or in fact your relationship at all,
which is what some people women are choosing too, apparently so.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
But if life's hard, If life's hard, you're working in
a workplace where you know you're not appreciated. We've just
heard about how all that's going. Why not head home
to put on your AI glass, get a packet of chips,
and watch TV with someone who loves you, which happens
to be either.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
A cat or AI. I mean, I think there's probably
times in one's lives we're making that choice about I
want to be single, I want to figure out who
I am, I want to do all those kinds of
you know, or I'm committing myself to my career. I
guess those are legitimate decisions. But I wonder, you know,
(23:48):
if on your deathbed, you're going to look back and say,
I'm really going to I bet my avatar is really
going to miss me.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
My boyfriend's out of batteries, He's going.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
To run out of batteries. Yeah, Like it's a weird.
It is a weird thing that I mean, part of
it is like what will we regret? Maybe, you know,
people will get to the end of their lives and
they won't regret having no relationship or you know, no
intimate relationship or no relationship with a human being. I
don't know. I just it seems a little empty to me.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
You Oh yeah, I think so too. I can see
the appeal of it. But this is what we discussed.
We spoke about the post COVID world. You said something
that really stuck with me where you said, think of
the best times in your life. Have they been sitting
at home on the counch or have they been those
unexpected nights where you go out and you have fun.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, and if you choose the insular version, you're going
to miss out on a lot.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah. And again, I mean everybody is going to find
their own proportion of you know, I want to stay
at home and you know, eat chips and watch a
bad TV show versus I'm going to go out and
you know, be with my friends, or I'm going to
go and take a course, or I'm going to you know,
try a new hobby or something. I mean, I think
that we're all we'll all find that balance and all
(25:10):
of the you know, our balance might be different a
person to person, but really I think just sitting without
any challenge in our lives is an empty life.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
So do you think in light of all we've spoken
about the meandering road we've taken today in terms of feminism,
in terms of modern men, modern women, where we all
meet in the middle, there's still a drive for connection
and sex and and and a relationship.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
I hope, So, I really hope.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
So.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
I mean there are days where I am, you know, challenged,
and feel a little less optimistic, But overall, I mean,
I you know, my work with the students, I you know,
most of the time, I'm filled with optimism. I'm filled
with you know, here's this young generation and they're figuring
(26:02):
it out.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Just like we did, no matter what those other bits
and pieces that come to player.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Yeah, the challenges are different. But you know, I hope
that they figured it out, and I hope that they
have some appreciation of the shoulders that you know, that
they will be standing on as they make their way
into the world.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Well, if they're children of the eighties, will be standing
on shoulder pads.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Absolutely, it's more comfortable though.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Absolutely. Should we get to our glimmers, that's I think
we can have a collective glimmer, Anita, that's you, me
and our tea cups. Because you said something to me
on the weekend. That made me sad but optimistic. We
were at a Christmas market in the boiling sun. Actually
(26:48):
the sun took us by surprise, so the only hats
we could buy were children's hats, So we walked around
in children's buckets hats for the day.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
We were so attractive about it.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
It was hard, a little arranged. But while we were there,
you said, after being Canadian, funnily enough and having all,
even though you've been in Australia for fifteen sixteen.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Years, almost twenty almost twenty years.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
That it still doesn't feel like Christmas for you.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
It doesn't.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
And I understand that popular culture for us is we
still see pictures of snow, of cold weather, of crunchy
bits and pieces and eggnog, of all of that. And
in Australia, our triggers for Christmas are different.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
We have school.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Holidays, we all relax, we put up Christmas decorations in
the heat, we eat seafood. Our triggers are different to yours.
Very and you were wondering what you could do to
feel more christmasy.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
It was like my sister in law told me earlier
this morning, and she was feastiming with me because She
wanted to show me that. She was so excited. She
was trying to put up her Christmas decorations and it's
not yet December. She was so proud of herself. I
was so proud of her. It was and I knew that,
you know, the late was starting to come down. It
was early afternoon.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
For her.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
It was you know, it's Christmas. And I could feel
her excitement. But then I look outside and it's like
a zillion degrees and it just doesn't feel like Christmas
at all.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I wonder what other people in your circumstances have done,
because I get it we have a very different kind
of Christmas. Like near the beach, you'll see backpackers who
think it's what a novelty. They'll go swimming and take
photos for their families. There they are with the Santa
hats on, with a couch set up on the beach,
and one of them is dressed as Santa. But they're
(28:38):
doing that for one year, for one Christmas, and they
send the photos home, going what a novelty? Yeah, if
that's your every Christmas, I can see why it's disappointing.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Well, I want to feel christmasy. I want to have
that feeling again. I want to and I know, I mean,
it's so exciting. I'm going to be spending Christmas with
my you know, with my son, my daughter and my
two grandchild children. We're also going to have a fake
Christmas because my son from Canada and his and his
(29:08):
partner are coming in for Christmas. Yes, so we're doing Yeah,
We're going to do, you know, a first Christmas. So
I love that, but I would love to have that
sense of Christmas with it. And so I am hoping
that the teacups can kind of help me have some
ideas about how to get into the into the holiday spirit.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Should you sit in an ice bath and we go, sucker,
that's how cold you'd be?
Speaker 8 (29:35):
It?
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Is it about embracing you know, going and getting you know,
standing in line for prawns? Is it? Is it about
I don't know what it is, but I'm just looking
for some ideas about how I can really embrace it.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Is it anita walking barefoot on some bindies and as
you say, queuing from prawns? And is it getting sun
burned and drunk in the middle of the day and
then lying in the sun and hating yourself? What are
the marks of Christmas that can help get Anita over
the line here. We'd love you let us no, so
please contact us on our socials.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
At Double A Chattery. Please do see you next time
here
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