December 7, 2025 • 19 mins
What if the world’s biggest social media company discovered its platforms were harming mental health… and then buried the evidence? Today, Justin and Kylie unpack explosive court documents about Meta’s secret research, the upcoming social media age-limit legislation, and what really happens when we step away from the online world. Then, we dive into your powerful responses to our most controversial episode of the year — including raw truths from parents who feel exhausted, confused, and desperate for answers. This episode will make you think differently about screens, kids, “normality,” and what families actually need.
KEY POINTS
- Meta allegedly hid internal research showing users became less depressed after deleting Facebook.
- Why this matters ahead of Australia’s new social media minimum-age legislation.
- Justin’s own social media detox — and the surprising wellbeing shift.
- Why young teens are the most vulnerable to social platforms.
- The cultural shift toward labels, diagnoses, and pathologising behaviour.
- Parents respond to the Sammy Tamimi episode: gratitude, confusion, frustration, exhaustion.
- The power — and danger — of language when describing kids’ struggles.
- Why the environment (screens, sleep, school, structure) often matters more than labels.
- Reassurance: you can hold the nuance — be curious and compassionate without losing hope.
QUOTE OF THE EPISODE
"When we change our language, we change our experience." — Justin
RESOURCES MENTIONED
- Meta court case reporting (news.com.au)
- Searching for Normal by Dr. Sammy Tamimi
- Previous Happy Families episode featuring Dr. Sammy Tamimi
- Research on Facebook deactivation and mental health
ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS
- Audit your child’s digital environment — sleep, screens, stimulation, social pressure.
- Create a family phone culture (including boundaries around late-night messaging).
- Hold diagnoses lightly, not dismissively — take what helps, leave what harms.
- Stay curious about what might be driving big emotions or behaviour.
- Prioritise connection over correction when your child is struggling.
- Remember progress > perfection — small steps make a big difference.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
This is the Happy Families Podcast. Thanks so much for
joining us. Two different topics today, we're going to kind
of jump from one thing to another. First off, court
documents say that Meta, the owner of Facebook and Instagram,
has attempted to hide a study that showed that when
people delete their Facebook account they become less depressed. They've
(00:27):
tried to hide it. More on that in just Sect Plus,
our most provocative and most feedback focused podcast of the year.
It happened around about ten days ago and we're going
to review some of the feedback that's come through and
talk about why so many people were up in arms
and also why so many people loved it and want
more Today. It's a bit of this and a bit
(00:49):
of that, but it's intriguing and it will make your
family happier. It's the Happy Families Podcast. More right after this. Hello,
and welcome to the Happy Families podcast, where you get
real parenting solutions every single day. This is Australia's most
downloaded parenting podcast where Justin and Kylie Calson. We're the
parents of six kids and Kylie, we're feeling can I
(01:10):
say the word refreshed? Are feeling invigorated after a week
riding your bicycle through the rain in New Zealand. We're
not going to talk about that today. That's coming up
on Friday, with a little bit of tomorrow. But I
love that you just laughed. This is a podcast. You
have to talk. You can't just laugh and look at
me with those eyes. We need to have some communication.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I think Mihami's are feeling it.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I think everything, the kids and their tushes are feeling it. Anyway,
we'll talk about more about that on Friday, Kylie. There
are two big topics today. First off, we're going to
talk about Facebook Meta. I've made an enemy of them.
I'm sure I don't know how I still have an
account with them because of the things that I say.
But from the very outset, this is a company that
has never, ever, ever, ever, ever had the interests of
(01:52):
its users at hard. It's always been about growing its database,
growing its members, growing its users, and then growing it
cash flows. And it has become one of the most
profitable organizations on the planet, one of the wealthiest organizations
on the planet. Meta ahead of the December ten social
media minimum age legislation has been in the news again,
(02:16):
and I want to read this to you This comes
from a news dot com article that was published by
Alex Blair, who says this bombshell. Details from a US
court case concerning Meta, the parent company to Facebook and Instagram,
have revealed the tech giant halted internal studies examining Facebook's
(02:36):
impact on mental health, even after uncovering causal evidence that
its platforms harmed users. So basically, there was a court
case that came up recently in the United States. Facebook
partnered with Nielsen, the research company, and looked at the
(02:57):
effects of temporarily deactivating Facebook. And what they discovered was
that when people deactivated Facebook, they got happier, their depression disappeared,
they ended up in a better place. Internal reports say,
and this is a direct quote, people who stopped using
Facebook for a week reported lower feelings of depression, anxiety, loneliness,
(03:18):
and social comparison. So as these findings started to come through,
the people at Medicaid, Oh, stop the study. We don't
need this study. This is not a helpful study. It's
not important. Let's pretend it never happened.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I really like to think that there is a lot
of good humanity.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
You're the kind of person who looks for good in
the world. You really believe that people are going.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeh stories like that, and it just makes your question everything.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
It's despicable, It's absolutely deplorable. These people do not care
about our kids. They do not care about our well being.
They care about one thing and one thing only. It's
shareholder value. And when they're making an excess of twenty
billion dollars per quarter, and you look at the amount
of money that they're spending on their AI, I mean
they literally just hired some people. They spent more than
one hundred million dollars on a single staff member on
(04:05):
a four year contract because that person is so integral
to their AI program. They have that much money, And
would you think that they're using AI to help our
kids do better?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
No.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
So, Jonathan Hydt, who wrote The Anxious Generation and who's
one of the most vocal people and one of the
most relevant people in the world on this topic right now,
has been making a lot of noise about how Meta
is working really hard on recognizing that a lot of
young people are feeling lonely today, and so what they're
working really hard on developing our synthetic AI, silicon based
(04:36):
chatbots so that if your child's feeling lonely they'll have
someone to talk to online. I mean, it's not a
real person, it's a chatbot. They're not doing this for
your kids, folks, They're not doing it to make your
kids happier. These people are so mendacious. They're so disgracefully
dishonest when it comes to what really matters, and it's
not your child's well being. When they're actually going to
(04:56):
cover up a study because it's showing that their pla
forms are literally genuinely harming kids. So I wanted to
raise that ahead of the December ten band two days
to go until the ban is implemented. The Social Medium
in Aged legislation, which includes all of the meta platforms
with the exception of WhatsApp. This is a good news story.
(05:18):
We've just got to hope and pray that the government's
intervention and the legislation works and that the platforms do
what they're supposed to be doing. I mean, my biggest
gripe about this is forty nine and a half million dollars.
If they're shown to be ignoring what the legislation requires,
it's a slap on the wrist. If you're inning twenty
two billion dollars last quarter in profit and someone says, well,
(05:41):
we need fifty million as a fine, like getting a
twenty cent parking fee. So I've still got some real
concerns around it. I love that we're doing it first
steps matter where, the first people in the world to
be doing it. But Kylie, we just meta canceled the
work and internally claimed that the negative outcomes were skewed
(06:01):
by the existing media narrative surrounding the platform. A just
beggars belief. We will link to this article and you
can research it more in the show notes. But that's
what I wanted to kick it off with today. I
know it's sort of a bad news story. Hey, good news,
good news. Ask me how I'm going with my social media.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
How are you going with your social media?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
You know how I'm going with it, don't you? Because
I deleted it. Well, I can't delete it because we've
got our Facebook page for the Happy Families business and
our Instagram page. But I no longer know what my
password is. I've had my assistant change on my password
put it into our password protection vault, and I don't
know how to get into it. So I can't use Messenger,
and I can't use Facebook and I can't use Instagram
and I'm so happy, Like this is the thing, Kylie.
(06:43):
With this research, the research is looking not at teenagers,
it's looking at all users. But we know from research
that our adolescens, especially our young early adolescence, are more
affected by these platforms than any other age group, especial
our young girls.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
They're still very dependent, you know, they can't get in
the car and drive off to their friend's house. They're
really dependent on mum and dad or public transport or
so the idea that social media fills a gap is
real for them as opposed to an adult who says,
let's go out for lunch and you get in the
(07:21):
car and you drive yourself there or you get picked
up or whatever. So I can see how just from
that perspective it impacts our kids so much more.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
But we've got the brain development, the social development, the
emotional development. There are so many things going on internally anyway.
I know that there are some people who a out
there who are quite unquoite experts who are not happy
about the band, don't think it's going to work, and
think that it's a fruitless exercise that's just going to
cost a lot of money and is creating a media hullabaloo.
Whether it moves to needle point one or ten point one,
(07:55):
that doesn't matter to me. The fact is we've started.
No legislation is perfect when it begins, but we're going
to get some information as a result of this, and
that allows us to make another step. It's about progress.
To me, it's not about perfection. It's about progress, and
I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I know that you've spoken about the fact that you're
really hoping that the platforms will do what they say
they're going to do.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, because I don't trust them at all, and that's.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Going to kind of move the needle a lot. I
actually think it starts so much more simpler, and I
think it really comes down to individual families. Yeah, Like
if we band together, like we build the village that
our kids are in righting, we're the center of it.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
The thing is, though parents aren't. I was just having
a chat with Charlie Brown, the developer of the GME phone,
which is designed to keep kids away from stuff online
not supposed to be on, and we're agonizing at the
moment over whether or not we're going to hand over
the most locked down phone ever in history to our
about to be twelve year old because she's really starting
to develop socially and she wants to be on the
(08:59):
phone to her friends, and she's always taking your phone.
I just won't allow her to have mine, but you're
a big softy and you keep on giving her yours.
And we're agonizing over this, and he just said, I
wish more parents spend as much time agonizing over things
as you guys are, because this is this is such
a big, big, big, big deal. But with your phone,
you're getting text messages from our daughter's friends at ten
(09:21):
and ten thirty at night as they're trying to contact her.
And you say it, in an ideal world, wouldn't be
great if parents did, But not enough parents do, whether
it's texting at ten thirty or whether it's social media.
So anyway, I just wanted to share that study. This
has gone on a lot longer than it was supposed to.
This will turn into an entire podcast on its own.
So after the break, the most feedback we've ever had
(09:42):
on a podcast, we're going to share some of that
and why it matters so much. Stay with us. That's
next on The Happy Family's podcasts. This is the Happy
Family's podcast where you get real parenting solutions every single day, Kylie.
A couple of weeks ago, about ten days ago, we
(10:02):
had one of our most listened to podcasts, and certainly
a podcast that has resulted in more feedback than almost
any podcast we've in fact, probably more feedback than any
podcast we've ever dropped. It was with the author of
a book called Searching for Normal. His name is doctor
Sammy to Mimy. Heaps of emails saying, oh my goodness,
we need more. In fact, one person, Liz emailed and
(10:24):
said more Sammy to Mimmy, please, Dear Happy Families. Sammy
to Mimy was fantastic. Can you get him on for
a longer session? Specifically, can you get him on to
talk about boys and diagnosis of ADHD. There were a
whole lot of other emails that came through that were
very much along those same lines, just begging for more
and saying how helpful it was and how reassuring it
was and how affirming it was. And then there were
(10:46):
other emails that came through like this one. This one
came through from someone that will remain anonymous, who said, Hi,
Justin and team well, it's been a morning another battle
with my eight year old refusing to go to school.
I'm exhausted. We've been seeing a psych collegist all year.
We're dealing with never ending sleep problems, emotional regulation issues
at home, where she gets quite violent when she's angry.
(11:08):
The family is often in chaos because of her meltdowns,
even though she has wonderful friends and is a very
liked member of her school community. We're often hearing about
relationship problems and playground politics. She definitely appears to be
masking a lot at school and then letting it all
out at home. There are many different causes of anxiety
as well that come and go. I've felt for years
that something's not quite right. We finally sought to have
(11:29):
her screen and the psychologist has now recommended that we
complete an ADHD assessment. I'm exhausted. And while I'm trying
to implement good parenting strategies like many that you promote,
which are essential and the best, some days I still
just don't know what to do. It feels like nothing
is working, and again, I'm just exhausted. I listen to
your podcast often and really value your insight, your opinions
(11:50):
and expertise. Your family values really resonate with mine. I
just listen to your podcast episodehere we interview doctor Sammy
to Mimi, I'm confused, I feel grumpy and horn You're
right that his views are a tad provocative. I guess
I just feel compelled to add to the conversation. I
get what he's talking about, no doubt us humans always
(12:11):
take things a bit too far, and we really shouldn't
be trying to seek normal as it doesn't exist. I
suppose labels can also be damaging when stigma is attached. However,
with all the struggles we've been dealing with over the
past few years, and when my child just doesn't seem
to be thriving and seems to be deeply struggling and
my husband and I just don't know what to do anymore,
is a diagnosis of some kind of behavior. It's sort
(12:32):
of really that bad when it could provide meaning and understanding,
When it could provide answers and streamline our support and
strategies so that our child can learn to thrive and
find their way, even if it's different from the majority.
And I just love that email so very much. You're
looking at me with sad eyes.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
When we talked about this a few weeks ago on
the podcast, I just I really kind of wanted to
emphasize the importance of listening to ours and really kind
of I guess trusting our guard. I know that when
our youngest came along, it wasn't too far into her
development that I started to recognize and notice that there
(13:13):
was some very distinct differences to her and the way
she interpreted interactions information, the way she reacted to being
with other people. And I'm not interested in a label,
but I am ridiculously aware that I have to do
(13:36):
things differently with her. I have to manage myself differently
when I'm with her, I have to communicate differently with her.
And that has been something that I want to use
the word innate, but it's not so much innate. It
was just a knowing that you have an experience with her.
(13:56):
She blows up. It's like I've treated all of my
children like this. Why is it not working with this child?
Why is she having such a big response? And so
in that moment, going Okay, I'm going to need to
try something different, and I'm hearing her She's exhausted, I've
been there, I've lived that, and in some regards, I'm
(14:19):
living that feeling of just emptiness because there is never
enough of me to go around. But I really hope
that as parents take in the information that's been given them,
that they don't see it as the be all of everything.
(14:44):
It's the only answer for them to cope with the
things that they're coping with. I want them to know
that they can take from Sammy what feels right for
them in the moment and continue along their journey of
discovery of what's going to work for their family, because
it's devastating. Yeah, when we're in these hard places and
(15:07):
we hear someone who's so counter to everything that everybody
else is saying, I think it's important for us to
be curious, but to feel hopeless. That's not a place
that I would ever want anybody to be left feeling
as a result of the things that we are striving
to share.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
So we're almost out of time. I was going to
plan an audio message that came through from Happy Families
dot com dot au, the super simple system there that
Jess used, and she basically said she felt like doctors
Mimi was being a bit dismissive that life is complicated
and this is just how it is for some people,
like these things really are happening, and it ties in
(15:46):
with what we've just talked about, what you've just shared
my response to both of the negative mines because I
certainly align with what doctor Timmy is highlighting, because he's
very much leaning on what the research shows. What's happened,
is that a cultural narrative that's developed. We've created an
entire language around everything that's going on from a mental
(16:06):
health slash mental illness point of view. And as we've
created that language and we've culturally moved in that direction,
whether it's about trauma or neurodivergence, or whether it's about
anxiety and depression or any of the other things that
are so popular because there's comfort, as we saw in
that anonymous email, there's comfort in knowing, oh, hang on,
(16:28):
there is a name for this and there is an
explanation for it that that feels compassionate and it feels good.
I'm certainly not going to be dismissive in the way
that Jess was worried about in her voice note. But
what I do want to emphasize very very clearly is
that when we change our language, we change our experience.
And yes, some children developed differently, there's no doubt about it.
(16:52):
Some adults have developed differently. We are all different, and
he said that in his interview with me. We're all
neurodiverse in a multiplicity of But what we are doing
now is we are in so many ways limiting and
living into things that we don't need to. If you
haven't listened to the podcast episode, it's worth going back
(17:12):
and listening to it. In fact, even if you have,
it's worth the second listen. I've listened to it a
couple of times. He says some things that are really jarring.
He also says some things that give you goosebumps because
they're so brilliant. And I think, ultimately, what as you said, Kylie,
we're in charge of our families. We're in charge of
our kids. But to the degree that we can help
(17:33):
our children, if our children are struggling, I'm always going
to say, let's talk about the environment first. Like the
environments that we're putting our kids into, they're not normal,
they're not natural, they're not what humans have been developed
to be in. And I think that that's our biggest
challenge screens, lack of sleep, diet, and the school environments particularly,
(17:54):
and the structured activities that our kids are experiencing, the
lack of sociality, the lack of adult role models. All
these things have such a huge impact on the way
they develop. And yet we've got a couple of kids
where we look at them like you are developing differently,
and I've talked to parents every day who are going
through that. So we really wanted to just sort of
(18:14):
there is no neat tidy. We've wrapped this up in
a package with a bow solution here, but we wanted
to acknowledge the enormous amount of feedback. We wanted to
talk specifically about those of you who have been quite
eloquent in the way that you've responded, and we definitely
want to flag this podcast episode. We're going to link
to it in the show notes. If you haven't heard it,
it's worth a listen. It's so important that we get
(18:35):
our head around this stuff and understand what is going
on from a mental health mental illness perspective in our
culture and community. All Right, our time is up. We've
talked way too long, Kylie. This was going to be
a really quick one didn't end up that way, but
I think it was an important conversation both about what
social media does to our kids and about what normality is.
And I'm glad we've got to do this. Tomorrow we're
(18:56):
back with a discussion about the psychology of Christmas. I'm
very excited about that one, and a whole lot more
about Christmas as we inch closer to the big day.
The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rollin from
Bridge Media. Mim Hammonds provides research, admin and other support
and for more information about making your family happier, you
will find it at happy families dot com dot a
(19:17):
u
This is the Happy Families Podcast. Thanks so much for
joining us. Two different topics today, we're going to kind
of jump from one thing to another. First off, court
documents say that Meta, the owner of Facebook and Instagram,
has attempted to hide a study that showed that when
people delete their Facebook account they become less depressed. They've
(00:27):
tried to hide it. More on that in just Sect Plus,
our most provocative and most feedback focused podcast of the year.
It happened around about ten days ago and we're going
to review some of the feedback that's come through and
talk about why so many people were up in arms
and also why so many people loved it and want
more Today. It's a bit of this and a bit
(00:49):
of that, but it's intriguing and it will make your
family happier. It's the Happy Families Podcast. More right after this. Hello,
and welcome to the Happy Families podcast, where you get
real parenting solutions every single day. This is Australia's most
downloaded parenting podcast where Justin and Kylie Calson. We're the
parents of six kids and Kylie, we're feeling can I
(01:10):
say the word refreshed? Are feeling invigorated after a week
riding your bicycle through the rain in New Zealand. We're
not going to talk about that today. That's coming up
on Friday, with a little bit of tomorrow. But I
love that you just laughed. This is a podcast. You
have to talk. You can't just laugh and look at
me with those eyes. We need to have some communication.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I think Mihami's are feeling it.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I think everything, the kids and their tushes are feeling it. Anyway,
we'll talk about more about that on Friday, Kylie. There
are two big topics today. First off, we're going to
talk about Facebook Meta. I've made an enemy of them.
I'm sure I don't know how I still have an
account with them because of the things that I say.
But from the very outset, this is a company that
has never, ever, ever, ever, ever had the interests of
(01:52):
its users at hard. It's always been about growing its database,
growing its members, growing its users, and then growing it
cash flows. And it has become one of the most
profitable organizations on the planet, one of the wealthiest organizations
on the planet. Meta ahead of the December ten social
media minimum age legislation has been in the news again,
(02:16):
and I want to read this to you This comes
from a news dot com article that was published by
Alex Blair, who says this bombshell. Details from a US
court case concerning Meta, the parent company to Facebook and Instagram,
have revealed the tech giant halted internal studies examining Facebook's
(02:36):
impact on mental health, even after uncovering causal evidence that
its platforms harmed users. So basically, there was a court
case that came up recently in the United States. Facebook
partnered with Nielsen, the research company, and looked at the
(02:57):
effects of temporarily deactivating Facebook. And what they discovered was
that when people deactivated Facebook, they got happier, their depression disappeared,
they ended up in a better place. Internal reports say,
and this is a direct quote, people who stopped using
Facebook for a week reported lower feelings of depression, anxiety, loneliness,
(03:18):
and social comparison. So as these findings started to come through,
the people at Medicaid, Oh, stop the study. We don't
need this study. This is not a helpful study. It's
not important. Let's pretend it never happened.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I really like to think that there is a lot
of good humanity.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
You're the kind of person who looks for good in
the world. You really believe that people are going.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeh stories like that, and it just makes your question everything.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
It's despicable, It's absolutely deplorable. These people do not care
about our kids. They do not care about our well being.
They care about one thing and one thing only. It's
shareholder value. And when they're making an excess of twenty
billion dollars per quarter, and you look at the amount
of money that they're spending on their AI, I mean
they literally just hired some people. They spent more than
one hundred million dollars on a single staff member on
(04:05):
a four year contract because that person is so integral
to their AI program. They have that much money, And
would you think that they're using AI to help our
kids do better?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
No.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
So, Jonathan Hydt, who wrote The Anxious Generation and who's
one of the most vocal people and one of the
most relevant people in the world on this topic right now,
has been making a lot of noise about how Meta
is working really hard on recognizing that a lot of
young people are feeling lonely today, and so what they're
working really hard on developing our synthetic AI, silicon based
(04:36):
chatbots so that if your child's feeling lonely they'll have
someone to talk to online. I mean, it's not a
real person, it's a chatbot. They're not doing this for
your kids, folks, They're not doing it to make your
kids happier. These people are so mendacious. They're so disgracefully
dishonest when it comes to what really matters, and it's
not your child's well being. When they're actually going to
(04:56):
cover up a study because it's showing that their pla
forms are literally genuinely harming kids. So I wanted to
raise that ahead of the December ten band two days
to go until the ban is implemented. The Social Medium
in Aged legislation, which includes all of the meta platforms
with the exception of WhatsApp. This is a good news story.
(05:18):
We've just got to hope and pray that the government's
intervention and the legislation works and that the platforms do
what they're supposed to be doing. I mean, my biggest
gripe about this is forty nine and a half million dollars.
If they're shown to be ignoring what the legislation requires,
it's a slap on the wrist. If you're inning twenty
two billion dollars last quarter in profit and someone says, well,
(05:41):
we need fifty million as a fine, like getting a
twenty cent parking fee. So I've still got some real
concerns around it. I love that we're doing it first
steps matter where, the first people in the world to
be doing it. But Kylie, we just meta canceled the
work and internally claimed that the negative outcomes were skewed
(06:01):
by the existing media narrative surrounding the platform. A just
beggars belief. We will link to this article and you
can research it more in the show notes. But that's
what I wanted to kick it off with today. I
know it's sort of a bad news story. Hey, good news,
good news. Ask me how I'm going with my social media.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
How are you going with your social media?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
You know how I'm going with it, don't you? Because
I deleted it. Well, I can't delete it because we've
got our Facebook page for the Happy Families business and
our Instagram page. But I no longer know what my
password is. I've had my assistant change on my password
put it into our password protection vault, and I don't
know how to get into it. So I can't use Messenger,
and I can't use Facebook and I can't use Instagram
and I'm so happy, Like this is the thing, Kylie.
(06:43):
With this research, the research is looking not at teenagers,
it's looking at all users. But we know from research
that our adolescens, especially our young early adolescence, are more
affected by these platforms than any other age group, especial
our young girls.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
They're still very dependent, you know, they can't get in
the car and drive off to their friend's house. They're
really dependent on mum and dad or public transport or
so the idea that social media fills a gap is
real for them as opposed to an adult who says,
let's go out for lunch and you get in the
(07:21):
car and you drive yourself there or you get picked
up or whatever. So I can see how just from
that perspective it impacts our kids so much more.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
But we've got the brain development, the social development, the
emotional development. There are so many things going on internally anyway.
I know that there are some people who a out
there who are quite unquoite experts who are not happy
about the band, don't think it's going to work, and
think that it's a fruitless exercise that's just going to
cost a lot of money and is creating a media hullabaloo.
Whether it moves to needle point one or ten point one,
(07:55):
that doesn't matter to me. The fact is we've started.
No legislation is perfect when it begins, but we're going
to get some information as a result of this, and
that allows us to make another step. It's about progress.
To me, it's not about perfection. It's about progress, and
I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I know that you've spoken about the fact that you're
really hoping that the platforms will do what they say
they're going to do.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, because I don't trust them at all, and that's.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Going to kind of move the needle a lot. I
actually think it starts so much more simpler, and I
think it really comes down to individual families. Yeah, Like
if we band together, like we build the village that
our kids are in righting, we're the center of it.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
The thing is, though parents aren't. I was just having
a chat with Charlie Brown, the developer of the GME phone,
which is designed to keep kids away from stuff online
not supposed to be on, and we're agonizing at the
moment over whether or not we're going to hand over
the most locked down phone ever in history to our
about to be twelve year old because she's really starting
to develop socially and she wants to be on the
(08:59):
phone to her friends, and she's always taking your phone.
I just won't allow her to have mine, but you're
a big softy and you keep on giving her yours.
And we're agonizing over this, and he just said, I
wish more parents spend as much time agonizing over things
as you guys are, because this is this is such
a big, big, big, big deal. But with your phone,
you're getting text messages from our daughter's friends at ten
(09:21):
and ten thirty at night as they're trying to contact her.
And you say it, in an ideal world, wouldn't be
great if parents did, But not enough parents do, whether
it's texting at ten thirty or whether it's social media.
So anyway, I just wanted to share that study. This
has gone on a lot longer than it was supposed to.
This will turn into an entire podcast on its own.
So after the break, the most feedback we've ever had
(09:42):
on a podcast, we're going to share some of that
and why it matters so much. Stay with us. That's
next on The Happy Family's podcasts. This is the Happy
Family's podcast where you get real parenting solutions every single day, Kylie.
A couple of weeks ago, about ten days ago, we
(10:02):
had one of our most listened to podcasts, and certainly
a podcast that has resulted in more feedback than almost
any podcast we've in fact, probably more feedback than any
podcast we've ever dropped. It was with the author of
a book called Searching for Normal. His name is doctor
Sammy to Mimy. Heaps of emails saying, oh my goodness,
we need more. In fact, one person, Liz emailed and
(10:24):
said more Sammy to Mimmy, please, Dear Happy Families. Sammy
to Mimy was fantastic. Can you get him on for
a longer session? Specifically, can you get him on to
talk about boys and diagnosis of ADHD. There were a
whole lot of other emails that came through that were
very much along those same lines, just begging for more
and saying how helpful it was and how reassuring it
was and how affirming it was. And then there were
(10:46):
other emails that came through like this one. This one
came through from someone that will remain anonymous, who said, Hi,
Justin and team well, it's been a morning another battle
with my eight year old refusing to go to school.
I'm exhausted. We've been seeing a psych collegist all year.
We're dealing with never ending sleep problems, emotional regulation issues
at home, where she gets quite violent when she's angry.
(11:08):
The family is often in chaos because of her meltdowns,
even though she has wonderful friends and is a very
liked member of her school community. We're often hearing about
relationship problems and playground politics. She definitely appears to be
masking a lot at school and then letting it all
out at home. There are many different causes of anxiety
as well that come and go. I've felt for years
that something's not quite right. We finally sought to have
(11:29):
her screen and the psychologist has now recommended that we
complete an ADHD assessment. I'm exhausted. And while I'm trying
to implement good parenting strategies like many that you promote,
which are essential and the best, some days I still
just don't know what to do. It feels like nothing
is working, and again, I'm just exhausted. I listen to
your podcast often and really value your insight, your opinions
(11:50):
and expertise. Your family values really resonate with mine. I
just listen to your podcast episodehere we interview doctor Sammy
to Mimi, I'm confused, I feel grumpy and horn You're
right that his views are a tad provocative. I guess
I just feel compelled to add to the conversation. I
get what he's talking about, no doubt us humans always
(12:11):
take things a bit too far, and we really shouldn't
be trying to seek normal as it doesn't exist. I
suppose labels can also be damaging when stigma is attached. However,
with all the struggles we've been dealing with over the
past few years, and when my child just doesn't seem
to be thriving and seems to be deeply struggling and
my husband and I just don't know what to do anymore,
is a diagnosis of some kind of behavior. It's sort
(12:32):
of really that bad when it could provide meaning and understanding,
When it could provide answers and streamline our support and
strategies so that our child can learn to thrive and
find their way, even if it's different from the majority.
And I just love that email so very much. You're
looking at me with sad eyes.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
When we talked about this a few weeks ago on
the podcast, I just I really kind of wanted to
emphasize the importance of listening to ours and really kind
of I guess trusting our guard. I know that when
our youngest came along, it wasn't too far into her
development that I started to recognize and notice that there
(13:13):
was some very distinct differences to her and the way
she interpreted interactions information, the way she reacted to being
with other people. And I'm not interested in a label,
but I am ridiculously aware that I have to do
(13:36):
things differently with her. I have to manage myself differently
when I'm with her, I have to communicate differently with her.
And that has been something that I want to use
the word innate, but it's not so much innate. It
was just a knowing that you have an experience with her.
(13:56):
She blows up. It's like I've treated all of my
children like this. Why is it not working with this child?
Why is she having such a big response? And so
in that moment, going Okay, I'm going to need to
try something different, and I'm hearing her She's exhausted, I've
been there, I've lived that, and in some regards, I'm
(14:19):
living that feeling of just emptiness because there is never
enough of me to go around. But I really hope
that as parents take in the information that's been given them,
that they don't see it as the be all of everything.
(14:44):
It's the only answer for them to cope with the
things that they're coping with. I want them to know
that they can take from Sammy what feels right for
them in the moment and continue along their journey of
discovery of what's going to work for their family, because
it's devastating. Yeah, when we're in these hard places and
(15:07):
we hear someone who's so counter to everything that everybody
else is saying, I think it's important for us to
be curious, but to feel hopeless. That's not a place
that I would ever want anybody to be left feeling
as a result of the things that we are striving
to share.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
So we're almost out of time. I was going to
plan an audio message that came through from Happy Families
dot com dot au, the super simple system there that
Jess used, and she basically said she felt like doctors
Mimi was being a bit dismissive that life is complicated
and this is just how it is for some people,
like these things really are happening, and it ties in
(15:46):
with what we've just talked about, what you've just shared
my response to both of the negative mines because I
certainly align with what doctor Timmy is highlighting, because he's
very much leaning on what the research shows. What's happened,
is that a cultural narrative that's developed. We've created an
entire language around everything that's going on from a mental
(16:06):
health slash mental illness point of view. And as we've
created that language and we've culturally moved in that direction,
whether it's about trauma or neurodivergence, or whether it's about
anxiety and depression or any of the other things that
are so popular because there's comfort, as we saw in
that anonymous email, there's comfort in knowing, oh, hang on,
(16:28):
there is a name for this and there is an
explanation for it that that feels compassionate and it feels good.
I'm certainly not going to be dismissive in the way
that Jess was worried about in her voice note. But
what I do want to emphasize very very clearly is
that when we change our language, we change our experience.
And yes, some children developed differently, there's no doubt about it.
(16:52):
Some adults have developed differently. We are all different, and
he said that in his interview with me. We're all
neurodiverse in a multiplicity of But what we are doing
now is we are in so many ways limiting and
living into things that we don't need to. If you
haven't listened to the podcast episode, it's worth going back
(17:12):
and listening to it. In fact, even if you have,
it's worth the second listen. I've listened to it a
couple of times. He says some things that are really jarring.
He also says some things that give you goosebumps because
they're so brilliant. And I think, ultimately, what as you said, Kylie,
we're in charge of our families. We're in charge of
our kids. But to the degree that we can help
(17:33):
our children, if our children are struggling, I'm always going
to say, let's talk about the environment first. Like the
environments that we're putting our kids into, they're not normal,
they're not natural, they're not what humans have been developed
to be in. And I think that that's our biggest
challenge screens, lack of sleep, diet, and the school environments particularly,
(17:54):
and the structured activities that our kids are experiencing, the
lack of sociality, the lack of adult role models. All
these things have such a huge impact on the way
they develop. And yet we've got a couple of kids
where we look at them like you are developing differently,
and I've talked to parents every day who are going
through that. So we really wanted to just sort of
(18:14):
there is no neat tidy. We've wrapped this up in
a package with a bow solution here, but we wanted
to acknowledge the enormous amount of feedback. We wanted to
talk specifically about those of you who have been quite
eloquent in the way that you've responded, and we definitely
want to flag this podcast episode. We're going to link
to it in the show notes. If you haven't heard it,
it's worth a listen. It's so important that we get
(18:35):
our head around this stuff and understand what is going
on from a mental health mental illness perspective in our
culture and community. All Right, our time is up. We've
talked way too long, Kylie. This was going to be
a really quick one didn't end up that way, but
I think it was an important conversation both about what
social media does to our kids and about what normality is.
And I'm glad we've got to do this. Tomorrow we're
(18:56):
back with a discussion about the psychology of Christmas. I'm
very excited about that one, and a whole lot more
about Christmas as we inch closer to the big day.
The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rollin from
Bridge Media. Mim Hammonds provides research, admin and other support
and for more information about making your family happier, you
will find it at happy families dot com dot a
(19:17):
u
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