July 15, 2026 • 46 mins
** Grab tickets for The Energy Game Melbourne launch (29 July, 6:30pm) here and order The Energy Game book here.**
If you're someone who keeps saying yes when you should say no, or who has never once thought of rest as a skill worth building, this conversation will give you a starting point that doesn't require overhauling your life.
This is part two of a two-part crossover with the This Is Work podcast, hosted by Shelley Johnson. In this episode, Shelley and I go deep into the science-backed strategies from my new book, The Energy Game, covering all three categories: boost strategies that take less than five minutes, rest strategies that are genuinely restorative (not just fake rest on the couch), and protect strategies that stop your energy leaking in the first place.
Because knowing you're burning out is one thing. Knowing what to actually do about it is another.
Shelley and I discuss:
- A surprisingly simple post-meal habit that stabilises your energy for hours
- Why the thing most of us do to wind down at night is not actually rest
- The acupressure technique from cancer recovery research that changed how I think about fatigue
- What happened to my creativity when I stopped filling every quiet moment with podcasts
- The tapping technique I used to conquer a phobia, and why it works for stress too
- A three-question filter for deciding what to say yes to, inspired by Adam Grant
- The worst speaking gig of my life, and the list I started that night
Key quotes
"Have you ever woken up in the morning and thought, 'I'm too busy to scroll Instagram today'? No. There you go. So you've got time to rest."
"You don't have to overhaul your life to get your energy back."
Connect with Shelley via LinkedIn, or through Boldside’s Instagram and website. For more conversations on meaningful work, sustainable success, and showing up as your best self – check out Shelley’s podcast this is work.
If you're jumping in fresh, part one is waiting for you. We cover the warning signs of b
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you listen to my conversation with the amazing Shelley
Johnson last week, you'll know that I spend most of
twenty twenty four running so hard I started fantasizing about
being hospitalized just to get a break.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Today.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
In part two of this crossover episode with This Is Work,
we get into the good stuff what you can actually
do about it, and I mean small, fast, science facked things.
We get into how you can boost your energy, do
proper rest instead of fake rest, and do a better
job of protecting your energy from leaking out in the
(00:36):
first place.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
If you haven't listened to part one yet, it's a
good place to start.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
We talk about how to identify the early signs of
burnout and how to avoid getting into the situation that
I did, so I will put a link to that
in the show notes. By the way, if you happen
to be based in Melbourne, I would love for you
to join me at the book launch of The Energy Game,
which is happening on July twenty nine at the malt
House Theater. There are still a handful of seats available
(01:04):
and there's a link to book in the show notes.
I promise it's going to be a super fun night.
You're going to learn a lot about your energy and
you're also going to come out with a seven day
experiment to boost it. And also there might be some
song and dance. Welcome to How I Work, a show
(01:27):
about habits, rituals, and strategies for optimizing your day. I'm
your host, doctor Amantha Imber.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
On the last episode, Amantha, we talked about The Energy Game,
your latest book, which is absolutely amazing and everyone needs
to buy it on audible and in hard copy and
electronic like all the things.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Get it where like good books are sold, I want
to know.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
We talked about this idea of the energy crisis and
how energy levels are what sustains us for high performance.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Someone listening right now, or probably quite a number of.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Listeners who are feeling like my energy is really low,
I am feeling really fatigued, I'm feeling really exhausted. If
they're listening, where would you begin at helping them to
rebuild their energy.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
What I do in The Energy Game is I break
the different challenges or strategies. There are fifty three of
them in the book into three different categories. So the
first category are boost strategies. So these are things that
will take you, on average, less than five minutes to
do that have been scientifically shown to instantly boost your energy,
(02:35):
so those times where you're feeling shattered but you need
to perform, So they're the boot strategies.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Secondly, we've got rest strategies.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
And what a lot of people do is what I
think of as fake rest, Like they will binge watch
Netflix at night on the cash because they've got no
energy to.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Do anything else, and.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
That feels like rest, but it's not really rare. They
will maybe scroll on social media. Again, that is kind
of doing the opposite of rest to your brain. And
so I talk about how do you actually do real
rest that doesn't have to take long. Most of the
rest strategies to truly rest and recharge you know, less
(03:18):
than ten minutes in the book. And then finally we've
got protect strategies. So how do you actually protect your
energy in the first place instead of letting it leak
out of you, typically through not setting boundaries and saying
yes to too many things.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Okay, so I my mind goes straight to, oh, I
don't want to talk about rest.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
I want to talk about the other ones.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
But we're going to get to rest because I think
that's the one that's really really difficult. We're going to
get to that in a sect, though, but I want
to know, let's start with boost. So someone listening, they're like,
you know, they might be an achievement addict like us,
and they're like, let me boost my energy asap, and
let me do it on one point five speed?
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Like how do I do that?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Which is totally the opposite of always trying to achieve people?
But anyway, I want to know this. Are there certain
strategies in the book that got I guess, great feedback
from the people who did the research with you, those
thirteen hundred people who tested all of these strategies, What
ones to you really stood out? Oh?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
There were there were quite a few standouts. Are we
should we talk about the boost ones? For well?
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Yeah, what do you think?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I mean? One that I did the other night. I'll
just to like jump and tell you my own feedback.
I was in I've been on the road all this
week and I actually have found, like I've been in
my body had found like the physical energy to be
quite low. And I was like, I had a really
like big dinner and I was reading the book at
the same time, I'm like, there's this one and it's
(04:51):
on in the Boost Strategy on page eighty seven, the
glucose stroll. Can you talk to me about that? Because
I did that and I want everyone else to learn
about it.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Okay, So what the glue cooast roll is all about.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
This is about what our blood sugar or blood gluecoast
levels are doing after we eat, and you know.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
If we're eating things that and I.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Don't want to say like because for everyone this is
quite individualized in terms of the sorts of foods that
are going to spike our blood glue cooast levels and
then lead to an inevitable crash.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
And I wrote more about that in my last book,
The Health Habit.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
But what we know from research that whatever you eat
for your meal, you're going to get like at least
a bit of a raise in your blood sugar and
therefore you're going to get a little bit of a crash,
which is where energy and you know, like we just
feel pretty rubbish, We feel exhausted, our brain's foggy, we
feel miserable, and you know, if that's happening to you,
(05:50):
about thirty minutes to sixty minutes after a meal.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
You probably didn't eat things.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
That were it was dabbled cheeseburger.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, from mackets as well.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
I was like on the road, so I was like, oh.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah, you're probably not going to feel great after that.
So what we know from research is that if we
can move our body, like just go for a gentle
stroll or a gentle walk around the block about thirty
to forty five minutes after we have eaten, it will significantly.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Curb that spike.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
So if you kind of imagine a graph and imagine
like a really big jump on the graph and then
a crash, that's what we want to reduce.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
We don't want that big jump.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
We just maybe want just like a tiny little mound
if you like. And so by going for a walk,
short walk movement, about ten to fifteen minutes of gentle
movement is all it takes. Like you don't have to
do a hardcore workout or anything. We are going to
significantly reduce that blood glucose spike, which means you're also
going to reduce the crash, So your energy will ultimately
(06:56):
be more sustained through making that choice.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Like, how did you feel?
Speaker 3 (07:00):
It was so weird because afterwards I read it, and
I'm of the view of like, well, if I'm going
to walk, I'm gonna speed walk, Like I'm gonna walk
really fast, because like, if you do anything, you should
do it with a purpose and level of energy. But
I have I deliberately went, now, I'm just gonna like
gentle stroll ten minutes.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
That's all I did.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
And then I turned the treadmill off, and I was
I felt so much better, And because like I had,
I could feel just that like, oh cool.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Because beforehand I was like really lethargic.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
I just felt really like bloated, gross, And just coming
back to what we said in the first episode. The
thing that I love so much about the strategies you
give is they're not unachievable.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
They're really simple.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
And I almost gave myself commission to go do what
the book said and just do ten minutes. So don't
try to don't always try to drive for more and more,
because that's part of the problem and the cycle that's
led us to have.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
I think these low energy levels one percent love that.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, yeah, I love that for me.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
So the glucos walk I really loved, and I want
to get into some of them around like some of
the actual practical strategies so that people can test these.
So write it down, glucose. If you've got your notes out, glucose,
stroll ten minutes. Can you talk to us about in
the boost strategy? There is a thank you letter one
and I again some of them, so many of them
(08:26):
really surprised me as far as I wouldn't have expected
that in boosting energy. So can you talk to us
about that one?
Speaker 1 (08:34):
So quite frankly, I do not need another wellbeing guru
to tell me to write a bloody gratitude list. And
so this is why I liked this particular research that
this technique comes from. And the recruit I think was
about one thousand Australians and they tested a number of
different strategies around how could they improve like an emotional
(08:58):
energy or you know, reduce emotional fatigue, So thinking about
our emotional energy account, which we talked about in the
last episode. And they did test the impact of writing
a gratitude list, which incidentally was about as effective as
writing a to do list.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
I'm so relieved to know that.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, yeah, me too, Me too.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
And one of the interventions that they tested was the
impact of writing a letter a thank you letter, So
calling someone out in your life and spending seven minutes
saying thank you through a letter. And then they took
this a step further and then they asked those people
(09:39):
who had written the letter to actually go and deliver
the letter or even read it out to the people
that they had written it for.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
And those that did that, they.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Had around a twenty five percent reduction in emotional exhaustion
and that effect lasted for several weeks after the experiment.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
So just through saying.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Thank you, ideally writing it down and then actually delivering
that thank you letter is a really simple but incredibly
effective way to boost that emotional energy account.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
So physically writing it like handwritten handwriting, you could type it.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
You know something I did I think this might have been.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I think it was when I was writing time wise
possibly and someone that's had a huge impact in my
life and I think was probably really influential in me
becoming a writer was my high school English teacher, mister Stewart,
And so I had the same English teacher from years
eight to year ten, and prior to year eight I.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Was not a fan of English.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
I did, okay, I think I was probably like a B. B.
Plus student. But you know, I grew up with a
mum that's a writer, and I think I was kind
of expected to enjoy reading and enjoy writing and be
really good at that.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
And I didn't.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I didn't like reading and I didn't like writing. But
then in year eight, I remember I was, you know,
I was met with this English teacher that was so
passionate about storytelling and Shakespeare and language, and you couldn't
help but be sucked in by that passion for words.
And that completely turned me around. I became a very
(11:22):
very good and motivated English student. And when I was
writing time wise, I was thinking about mister Stewart and
I looked him up on LinkedIn and I spent some
time writing him a note and telling him just what
a huge impact his three years of teaching me when
I was a teenager had on me.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
And here I was like writing books.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
That's so good.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
I love those moments, and I think about the simplicity
of that story and even you know, what's really funny
is that still we call our teachers mister Stewart.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Stewart, we wouldn't be out of you said first name.
But it's it to me again.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
It comes back to the simplicity of this stuff, that
the little things that can have a huge uplift in
your own energy, and that, I mean, what a beautiful
way to do to like instead of it, I guess
going back to the Wei mode versus me mode.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
It's one of those nice ways to.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Move from focusing on me and what I need to
do to build my energy, but actually showing gratitude. And
how amazing for him. I'm sure that made his absolute
weak seeing that. What did he I'm just curious what
did he respond to?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
He respond?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
He responded quite quickly and and really beautifully. He said
something like, you know, like thank you. That means a lot,
and I always knew you'd do something great.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
And that surprised me because, like you know, teachers teach so.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Many hundreds, if not thousands of students, the ones that
our career teaches as he was and still is, and
I was just blown away by that.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Note.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
So we've got these boost strategy. You've talked about the gratitude,
this thank you letter. You've also we've talked about the
glucose walk. This one's really interesting to me and I
know a few of our people who are here watching
us record this. Are also very keen to know about
the acupressure strategy. Can you talk to us about this one? Okay,
(13:24):
So I hate needles.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
I did try acupuncture once where needles are stuck in
when you're pregnant. It was when I was trying to
get pregnant, and I thought, everyone talks about acupuncture, I
will get some needles stuck in my body and just relax.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
It's not relaxing at all.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Not relaxing at all. I will not be doing that again.
And then when I was researching the Energy Game, I
was reading a lot about acupressure where you're still identifying
those same pressure points, but instead of sticking a needle
into yourself for having someone else do that, you're simply
using your fingers to apply pressure and rubbing that spot
(14:07):
in a circular motion, just gently, like for about three minutes.
And there's a particular protocol that I write about in
the book where there are five points to apply pressure
to three minutes each and we can talk through a
few of those that are above waist height.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
And just through doing that. Because a lot of the studies.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Around energy are done with there's a lot of healthcare
worker studies because you know that burnout's huge.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
There.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
There's quite a lot of studies that have been done
with cancer patients because fatigue is a huge side effect
of cancer and treatment for cancer. And so I think
you know, there was a particular study here that was
done with breast cancer people that were going through breast
cancer treatment and through doing this particular ACU pressure protocol
(14:56):
just for fifteen minutes a day for about six weeks,
they experienced it was about a forty five percent reduction
in fatigue. Wow, just through fifteen minutes a day of
putting some pressure on some different pressure points. So three
of the points that are above waist height, which you
know works for video, is just the point that's right
(15:17):
between your eyebrows. So just putting pressure just so that's
what between your eyebrows, rubbing in a circular motion for
three minutes.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Yeah, so you have to do it for a full
three minutes.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
That's what they did in the research. So you could
possibly do less. You could try that, but I'm always
a fan of sticking to the protocol in the research
that's actually been shown to give results. Now, another spot
is just just behind the bottom of your ears. If
you kind of like put your fingers just under your
ears and just a little bit upper, but you'll you'll
sort of feel like an indentation. And if you put
(15:51):
pressure there and just rub their just kind of you know,
behind your ear lobe, and you can do both sides
at the same time.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
That is another spot that was part of the protocol.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Yeah, just while you're doing this amount and we're all
practicing with you, every single person in the studio is also.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Looking.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
All these people were like, I need more energy.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Okay, So behind the ear behine is and then the
third spot that is at least above the waist is
just just below kind of like your wrist. If you
follow the line down from your little finger down to
your wrist again, there's like a little indentation just like
below your palm, kind of like near where your wrist creases.
(16:33):
Hopefully I'm describing this okay for those just looking into
the audio, but again you'll find like a little indentation there.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
And that is a third spot. Just sort of putting
some pressure.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
There, okay, and then you put the pressure there for
three minutes.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
But three minutes just rub in a circular motion.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
And the other spots are for those playing along at home,
just kind of if you think about where your ankle
bone is about three finger lengths up from that behind
your shins. If you kind of grip behind there, behind
your shins again, you'll feel an indentation just prying a
(17:11):
pressure there. And then the final spot is between your
big toe and your second toe, just kind of where
the webbing is. If you like, not that we're ducks,
but you know what I mean, just like between those
tries putting some pressure there.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
Well, and you know, I'm really glad you cry fid
they were not ducks because.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Because you're wondering what's curious?
Speaker 4 (17:26):
I was thinking, who am I today?
Speaker 3 (17:29):
But I do love that again it's coming back to
you and I think about those three categories of challenges.
So we've got fewty three challenges boost, rest and protect,
But then they apply going back to your energy accounts.
I almost think like the energy accounts and the link
between the two, like the emotional energy account if it's low,
(17:49):
the Sankey letter in boost can really help with that.
So I just piecing this all together and being able
to understand how you can boost energy in the relevant
as well. So again this is all it's just super
helpful putting together the dots.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yes, an interestingly side note which may or may not
be an interesting side note when I was writing The
Energy Game in one of the well certainly in the
very first draft of the manuscript, for every one of
those fifty three challenges, I actually had which account or
accounts it was best for boosting but or like increasing
(18:25):
not besting.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
But what was then a.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Bit of a struggle is that the research wasn't quite
clear for some of their strategies which account it was increasing.
And so the purest in me and also my editors
in Penguin made the call to just delete that from
the different toolkit cards that you will see in the books.
So some of them it's very clear which energy account
(18:49):
they give you some deposits into and others it's going
to be all three and others I could make it
educated guess.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
But there is no science. So hence that was edited.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Very classic Amantha Invera style, like no, no, the science
is not there, So we will remove for the integrity
of it.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
Which I love, which I love, I want to go
into rest.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
And this is a personal challenge for mine, surprise, surprise,
And I heard on a podcast probably about a year
ago someone talk about how high achievers need to have
a rest ethic that matches their work ethic, and it's
rattled around in my head since then because I think
of I've never associated rest as being Actually it's an ethic.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
You need to build it.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
It is hard to build, just like your work ethic
is hard to build. The habit of rest and genuine rest,
not fake rest, as you say, is very difficult. Why
do high achievers and high performers find it so hard
to rest.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Well?
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I mean, there's so many reasons. I think the most
common one is that, well, I don't have time to rest.
I'm too busy doing all the things and keeping all
those balls in the air, And where am I going
to find the time because I'm so busy? But to that,
I like to ask the question. And let me ask
(20:14):
this of you, Shelley. Have you ever woken up in
the morning and thought, I don't have time to scroll
on Instagram today.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
I'm too busy. No, there you go, So you've got
time to rest?
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Well?
Speaker 4 (20:31):
Very well put And yeah, it is like that exception.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
That's not the question I thought you were gonna ask,
But I'm glad you did.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yes, you're right.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
So if we think about then the rest challenges. Oh,
this one I didn't like?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Oh which one?
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (20:50):
I really didn't like it. It made me uncomfortable. I'm curious
the Silent Walk, I would love that. Can we just me, okay,
can I tell you I don't like at first?
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Tell me tell me so?
Speaker 4 (21:04):
I have I have to.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
I've got such a noisy brain, and I was like
when I saw the Silent Work, I was like, but wait,
what do you do with your thoughts?
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Where do the thoughts go?
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Like I need the music for the thoughts, Like I
don't want I don't want to be alone with my thoughts.
And so now you're telling me I need to be
alone with my thoughts.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
So talk to us about that. Yeah, and look for
this one. I will say.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
I read the book Digital Minimalism by Cal Newport. I
think you put that out maybe in twenty nineteen, I
want to say, and that really changed my perception with
how most of us, certainly you and I I suspect,
just feel like there needs to be stimulus going in
our brain at all times because I'm never going to
(21:50):
have the time to listen to all the podcast episodes
and all the songs that I want to listen to
and all the things that need to go in my
brain so that I can learn, learn, learn, and never
sit still.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
And I thought that that was healthy.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
And what cal Newport talks about in digital Minimalism is
that that's actually quite unhealthy, and that our brains need
time to breathe, they need time to be bored, and
when we stop just loading our brains up with stimulus,
they have time to be still and to ponder and create.
(22:22):
And when I read that book many years ago, I
set myself the challenge. I calculated approximately how many hours
I was listening to podcasts per week, and it was
about about six hours I'd calculated, So it was all
the all my workout time, and it was all.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
My commute time.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Might have been eight hours even And I made the
commitment that I was going to cut that back by
fifty percent, so every second workout I'd have nothing going
in my ears.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Oh I know, and don't love that?
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah, And so and then for my commute into the city,
my commute into the city, I was stimular free.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
My commute home, I was allowed to listen to a podcast.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
That was your little reward as well, coming back into
the stimulus addiction, and what I found is that those
times where I wasn't just loading my brain up with stimulus,
it was like this creativity was unleashed in my brain.
It was like nothing I had experienced in many, many
(23:25):
months prior, and and you know, it became incredibly compelling.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
To just go, I wonder what's going to pop into
my brain today.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
It was it was like just this fire hose of
ideas and it was amazing. And when I was researching
the energy game, I was like, I wonder what, like,
I wonder you know, where the science is around that?
And I found this really interesting study that took a
group of people and they were sent on a twelve
minute walk and half the people were told look at
(23:55):
your phones while you're walking, like full permission to just
be in your mobile, as a lot of people are
when they're going for a walk. And then the second
group were phone free. They were not allowed to take
anything with them. And what they found is that, not surprisingly,
the group that spent those twelve minutes without their phone
and went for a walk, it was three parks or
(24:16):
getting a bit of a nature hit as well, and
just being present with their surroundings, came back feeling significantly happier,
more recharged, and.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Just reported feeling I just felt really present and in
the moment.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Compared to the phone walkers that were hunched over, they
felt pretty crappy after the walk. Even though walks are
meant to be good for us, but they're not so
great for us when we're on our phones. And so
I call this the silent walk. Just go and it
doesn't need to be long. Their study was twelve minutes.
It was a twelve minute walk, like we could all
find time to just go for a ten or twelve
minute walk just around the block as a break during
(24:52):
the workday. This is one of the techniques I must
say that I use. I would say every single day.
I find it so powerful because my work is so
you know, it's it's computer based or as people based.
There's always stimulus buzzing around in my head. And just
to have that break for ten to twelve minutes I
find is so incredibly recharging.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Okay, So I like that we framed it as an
energy challenge because I would find that challenging twelve minutes.
So I'm going to try that one in the next
week and I'm gonna let you know how I go
with the twelve minutes silent walk. Yeah like sound like
like you can see how excited I sound and feel.
I'm gonna try it, and I'm gonna let you know.
(25:34):
But I do like the idea of and I think
about digital minimalism and Caunport's work and again had the
same kind of vibe of that of like, oh, that
feels scary to be alone with your thoughts. But I'll
let you know how I go with my creativit because
you do want that creative energy. I think when your
work's cognitively demanding and like you are getting a lot
of input of info, but you're not having that space,
(25:58):
I can see how that will really would help with
your creativity.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Coming up next, I explain the tapping technique that I
swear ended with a blue tongued lizard sitting on my
lap and this is for someone that hates lizards. And
later on I share the single worst speaking gig of
my life, six hundred people talking over me while I
was up on stage, and the list that I started
(26:29):
that very night that saved me from ever repeating that
experience again.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
Okay, next challenge, can we the tapping reset.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Can you talk to me about that? Okay?
Speaker 1 (26:49):
So this is this is a technique called AFT or
emotional freedom technique AFT. How's commonly thought about and it
is going to sound really woo, but there is a
surprising amount of science behind it. So I first came
(27:09):
across this strategy over ten years ago, where it's quite
a common way to treat phobias. Funnily enough, it's also
brilliant for energy and managing stress, but it's very common
for phobia management. And I had a phobia of lizards.
And I can't remember why I was so motivated to
(27:30):
work on it at the time, but I was. And
I was recommended this practice EFT practitioner, and he was
an hour away from my house, which is annoying because
I'm inner city Melbourne and things should not be an
hour away.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
No, they shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
They absolutely show Yeah, that is how committed I was.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
So every Monday afternoon, I'd drive out to this guy's
house and we would sit around and I would tap
on my face primarily and say a kind of mantra
out loud. And I did that for it was about
seven or eight sessions, and then by the eighth session.
I had a blue tongue lizard sitting on my life.
(28:10):
No way, yeah, yeah, but unfortunately I didn't generalize to
skinks and geckos.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Way species medium to large sized, listends cool, would it be?
Okay about that? Big? Not too bad? Not to They've
got massive clause, that's all right? About how fast are they? Oh? Fast? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Really?
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Yeah, goennas. They would move fast. Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
There's not not too many in inner city Melbourne, so
we're cool.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
We're cool.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
I really want to have a separate part three of
this podcast is tell us about the lizard lizards and
the Yeah, please, can we dig into that in as
much detail as we possibly can? But that's a separate episode. Okay,
So anyone listening, how do we do it? Because I know,
first of all, every single person in this in the
studio right now wants to do the tapping reset like
(29:03):
I want to do that, And can I say my
fear yes, which I've talked about on my pod before.
I hate flying and I fly multiple times every week.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
I hate planes.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
I get like flight anxiety, and now I'm thinking this
could really help me with my flight anxiety.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
This would be brilliant.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Okay, this would be brilliant and so look, in the
context of energy, this is really great when you are
feeling overwhelmed by stress and stressful thoughts, and this is
where you can help calm yourself down.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
But it's also good for phobias.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
So how this works, again, this is a bit visual,
so I'll try to describe our way through it. So
what we're going to do is we're going to be
tapping on different points of our body, primarily around our face,
and we're going to be saying, and like the exact
wording is fairly flexible, but essentially it's saying, even though
(29:55):
I am feeling ex emotion, so even though I am
feeling nervous about this flight, I deeply and completely accept myself.
So which sounds a bit woo And there are variations
that I write about in the book that you know
might feel less woose. So you are saying that either
out loud or in your head to yourself as you're tapping.
(30:16):
And so the first point to tap is it's called
the karate chop point. So it's kind of imagine you're
karate chopping a block of wood.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Imagine the part of your.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Hand just kind of like down the line of your
little finger towards your wrist. It's like the side of
your hand. You're just tapping like with you know, three
or four fingers. You're just tapping quite fast, like one, two, three,
four fives, that that kind of speed. Okay, you're just
tapping that point, and you're kind of doing that for
about nine or ten taps. Then you're moving to the
(30:46):
next point, which is the same point as the ACU
pressure point. So just between your eyebrows, Okay, tapping that point.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
And so while I'm tapping, I'm saying, you're saying, even
though I'm anxious about this.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Flight, but I deeply and completely accept myself. And you're
saying that over and over again. Now you're moving down
to just the kind of the bony point below your
eye I guess your sinuses. Yeah, and you're tapping there
and you're repeating what you're saying. You're then moving down
to the spot what's it called, like your Cupid's boke,
(31:18):
like just between your bottom of your nose and the
top of your lips.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
So, and do you have to do all of the
points like as part of the process or can you
just do one?
Speaker 1 (31:27):
You need to work through most of them. I don't
think you need to work through all of them. And
then there are a couple more so. The next one
is just below your bottom lip and sort of like
where your chin is, tapping there, then tapping just like
kind of on your collar bones and like with both
hands and you can alternate or tap hands at the
same time. Then just at the side of your body,
(31:49):
kind of like if you're a woman and wearing a
bra where your brass trap is, so just kind of
tapping at the side of your body, and then you
can also tap just at the.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Crown of your head.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
And then you just like repeat that cycle, go back
to the beginning and just keep tapping and kind of
do that for generally like five to ten minutes is
about right, And then you want to then just check
back in and go how am I feeling in my
body about the thing that was stressing me out? So
you kind of start by going where what's that level
of stress? Like out of ten and maybe you're an
(32:18):
eight out of ten, And then when you've done a
few rounds of the tapping, you then ask yourself, Okay,
how am I feeling now in terms of that stressor
and hopefully you've gone down a bit, and if you
want to keep going down, you might do a few
more rounds of the tapping until you're you know, maybe.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Down to A two or a three.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
So that's essentially what I did every session with the
lizard Guy as he shall be known, and doing that enough,
essentially it's kind of changing, like it's rewiring those thoughts
in your brain. Is essentially like from a scientific point
of view, what is happening by tapping while repeating this mantra,
(32:57):
And it's almost like disconnecting the those connections in your
brain that were not serving you very well in terms
of those stressful thoughts that were like activating a stress
response in you.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
And so how long did you do that for with
the lizard guy to get to the.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Point where you could have the blue tongue lizard on
your lab.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
So yeah, I think it was about seven or eight
sessions we kem and we would probably you know, we
spent a lot of time talking about, you know, the theory
and the research behind EFT and him just teaching me it.
But in terms of tapping time, maybe like ten to
fifteen minutes worth of tapping time each week.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
I mean, again, there's so many great surprises in the
book of like strategies you just never would have thought
of like that. Again, like you go into so so
many practical strategies, but I'm going to use that one
because it, like the plain thing, is really inconvenient.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
I mean, much help, little highly for you.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
I mean, I'm curious to know how many lizards you
are trying to encounter. Again, that's next episode, Okay, So
I want to get onto two final strategies in the
protect space. Okay, So thinking about that leaking bucket. The
bucket's got holes in it, it's leaking. We want to
(34:11):
close those holes and stop the energy leak. This one,
I really loved the yes triage. Can you talk to
us about that?
Speaker 1 (34:20):
So the yes triage, the thinking behind this came from
Adam Grant, who was an organizational psychologist that I think
we both adore, and he's been on the How I
Work podcast a few times, and I remember I think
it was the very first time I had him on.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
I was curious for someone.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
That is so giving as a person, but also someone
that has so many requests made on his time.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
I was asking him about how does he decide what
to say yes.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
To and what to say no to and he talked
to me about this almost this hierarchy of yeses and
how I guess his version of the yes triage as
I think of it. And you know, he says, well,
you know, like, aside from family and friends, students are
the very top because I became a teacher a professor
(35:12):
because I knew how much impact the professors that I
had had when I was a student had had on me,
and I wanted to have that impact. And so students
are at the top of that hierarchy. And he sort
of talks through who is on that hierarchy, but towards
the bottom of the hierarchy fellow professors. He's like, I
didn't go into teaching to help other professors.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
That wasn't why.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
And it was useful for him to unpack that because
it helps you when you're met with all the incoming
requests on our time that we're all met with, to
have a structured approach to going okay, rather than having
to have all this mental angst around and waste time
on that. It's just a straightforward decision. So what I
(35:55):
talk about in the book is my version of that,
which I call the yes treat where it's really simple
when someone asks for your time in some way, shape
or form. And I know that this is sometimes a
luxury because sometimes we do not have the choice to
say no, but where we do have the choice, firstly,
asking yourself, does this actually align with my top priorities,
(36:18):
say my top three priorities for the month, because it's
really easy to let other people's priorities become your own priorities.
And particularly if we're a people pleaser or an over committer,
those two particular energy types that we talked about in
the part one episode, we kind of just want to
say yes no matter whether it aligns with our goals
(36:41):
or whether it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
So that's the first question.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
The second question is do I have the energy to
do justice to this request, which again can seem like
a strange question to ask do I have energy to
do this thing?
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Most of us don't think about that.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
They just said, well, I should do the thing, I
should say yes, But asking yourself, do I truly have
energy to do this thing and do it well? Because
no one needs the exhausted version of you. That's not
going to serve anyone well, particularly you. And then the
third question is are you saying yes out of enthusiasm
or are you saying yes out of guilt or pressure
or something negative? Because again, you know, particularly those that
(37:20):
are you know, in the in those four types a
perfectionist or a people please, there's so more anxiety driven
as opposed to ambition driven, are often going to say
yes from a place of well, I have to do
I have to do the thing. I feel pressure, I'm
you know, I'm going to feel real guilt if I
don't say yes. So just thinking, is there yes coming
from a place of enthusiasm, and I say, look, if
(37:41):
you can say yes to two out of three of
those questions for the yes triage is probably worth doing.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
I find that so helpful because so many like reluctant
yess that you go, oh, I knew at the time
if I had sat with this more, I would have
been like, this is a hard no.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
But because you're like, oh, I'm under pressure.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
And sometimes I find it takes less emotional energy in
the moment to say yes and it does just say no,
but it takes far greater energy to then deliver on
that yes that you made in a short, sharp decision
like I just think again, the reflective questions in that
challenge to me was just so profound. They sound simple,
(38:23):
but I think they are really profound because they just
get you to reframe. Am I saying yes out of guilt?
Is there a level of enthusiasm about this? And if
there's not, then why would I do it?
Speaker 4 (38:32):
So even the two out of three to me is
really really solid.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
One final thing for you on one final challenge that
I really loved, really loved this one and I need
this in my life, the Never Again list?
Speaker 4 (38:47):
Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 2 (38:49):
I can so this one?
Speaker 1 (38:53):
And look, the very first item that ever went on
this list happened because of this story. So you and
I've to a lot of keynote speaking, and I have
a loose rule that I.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Don't speak at dinner events.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
And look, I don't get asked to speak at too
many dinner events. People I think know that the kinds
of topics that I speak about that are, you know,
around productivity and well being and AI. It's like they're
better in the daytime the latter day, and they're better
without alcohol, let's face it. And I so typically say no,
(39:28):
but it was never a hard and fast rule. And
then I found myself and I think this was in
twenty eighteen, I think or twenty nineteen, speaking at a
dinner event and it was a really big awards night
and I was speaking about innovation, I think, and it
was like, you know, this this packed venues, six hundred
(39:51):
people all sitting around cabaret style seating eating their manes
while I was up on stage doing a twenty minute
keynote about innovation for these Innovation Awards.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
And I remember, throughout that whole entire.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Presentation, I could not actually hear myself speak because the
lad that the volume of the room and the people
having conversations while they were you know, clattering their knives and.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
The cat on the plate.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
But seriously, the conversations that people were having while I
was talking, could not hear myself. I just wanted that
stage to swallow me whole. It was the single worst
speaking experience I've had in my life. And I remember
getting off the stage and Adam Spencer was m seeing
the event, and I said to Adam, oh my gosh,
(40:44):
I am like, I.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Feel absolutely humiliated by what went on.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
It's like it wasn't that bad, like, you know, just
the acoustics are really bad, so it sounded like no
one was listening, but don't worry, people were listening and
I'm just thinking, didn't feel that way. Felt pretty sucky
to me. And after that event, I said to myself,
never again will I say yes to speaking at a
dinner event. And at that moment I started my never
(41:10):
again list, because the never again list is thinking about
what are those experiences that you've had and maybe you've
had them a few times and you've said yes for
whatever reason, and then you have them and then you
do the same thing again.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
And you're like, I should not have done that. Never again.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
So I have a never again list, which makes it
really easy to say no to things because I don't
Never again will I speak at a dinner event. Never
again will I go on a roller coaster?
Speaker 4 (41:38):
Is that on there?
Speaker 2 (41:39):
That is absolutely on it.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
It's like these are just hard and fast rules that
I live by. Never again list removes so much decision
making energy.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
Never again will I hug? Going to hug the CEO,
I'll just go for the handshake. And if they want
to initiate a hug, I.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
Mean I've done that multiple times where it's just gone
so bad. I'm like, like everyone gets a hug and
it's like no, no, never again. Actually I have to
like remind myself of that every every day, like just
don't if you could just do one thing today, don't
try to give the CEO a hug, Like, so that's on,
I haven't got my that's on the top of my list,
And have.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
You got anything else on your never end?
Speaker 3 (42:18):
Oh yeah, I mean I love this because I do
find you have recurring occurring Absolutely. I I am very
protective of my evenings when I'm traveling, so people will
often it's only a very like very small instance where
I would have a dinner in Melbourne, That's what I mean, small,
(42:43):
very small group of people here. I'll be like, yes,
we are catching up for dinner. We've done that multiple times.
It's always Japanese. I think certain things that you just
learn about yourself where I know, for me, my energy
recharges with time to myself, and when you're like facilitating
big rooms of people all day, that is such an
(43:04):
energy drain. And so I've got a pretty hard and
fast rule within a small small handful of people that
are exceptions to this, where I'll go, I don't do
a dinner with a social dinner after I've done a
keynote or a workshop or something like that. So that's
on my never again list, But I think it's really
helpful for people just to eliminate that, Like you say,
(43:27):
the decision making energy.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
Do I say yes to this? Do I say notice?
Speaker 3 (43:30):
It's like no, I remember that twenty minute keynote where
people were talking through its stuff. So I just that
is one of my so rude first of all, but
also the one thing the clanking of glasses and color.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Just it's the worst. It's the worst.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
Hey, I know people are going to want to get
this book, and I want one final thought from you
for a listener right now who the energy is low
and something you would have loved to have heard in
that moment where your energy is low?
Speaker 4 (44:01):
What would you say to them?
Speaker 1 (44:04):
So, I mean, like, the big thing I learned when
I was doing research for The Energy Game is that
you don't have to overhaul your life. And often if
you are at a point of burnout, there probably are
some big decisions you need to make and some big
changes that you need to make. And I do write
about that in the Energy Game because I did make
some very big changes in twenty twenty four and they
(44:26):
absolutely lifted my energy. But I couldn't have done that
without starting small and starting with the challenges that I
write about in the Energy Game to start to claw
back and build back some of that energy that was
just absolutely missing from me in that year.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
Beautiful. Well, hey, everyone needs to get the book.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
Mine is absolutely I have used so many of the
strategies already.
Speaker 4 (44:48):
It is.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
It is such a helpful resource, super practical, but so
many of the parts of it that are so profoundly relatable.
You're going to get so much out of it. Audible,
get a hard copy, get it on kindle. Amantha, you
are one of my favorite people and I just adore you,
adore your work, and so thanks for hanging out.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
Oh thanks, Shelly, right back at you too.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
I hope that this episode has shown you that you
do not have to overhaul.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Your life to get your energy back.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
And really that was the thing that I learned the
hard way in twenty twenty four and it's really what
I most want you to take away from this conversation.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
So pictures one thing today.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Maybe it's a glucose stroll after your next meal, or
a twelve minute silent walk without your phone. So if
you want more strategies. My new book, The Energy Game
is out now wherever you buy books. It is packed
with science back strategies to help you recover from burnout
or even just exhaustion and rebuild your energy. There is
(45:51):
a link to buy it in the show notes. And
if you enjoyed this episode, hit follow so that you
don't miss what's coming next on How I Work.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
If you like.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Today's show, make sure you hit follow on your podcast
app to be alerted when new episodes drop. How I
Work was recorded on the traditional land of the Warrangery people,
part of the Kohen Nation. A big thank you to
Martinimma for doing the sound mix.
If you listen to my conversation with the amazing Shelley
Johnson last week, you'll know that I spend most of
twenty twenty four running so hard I started fantasizing about
being hospitalized just to get a break.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Today.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
In part two of this crossover episode with This Is Work,
we get into the good stuff what you can actually
do about it, and I mean small, fast, science facked things.
We get into how you can boost your energy, do
proper rest instead of fake rest, and do a better
job of protecting your energy from leaking out in the
(00:36):
first place.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
If you haven't listened to part one yet, it's a
good place to start.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
We talk about how to identify the early signs of
burnout and how to avoid getting into the situation that
I did, so I will put a link to that
in the show notes. By the way, if you happen
to be based in Melbourne, I would love for you
to join me at the book launch of The Energy Game,
which is happening on July twenty nine at the malt
House Theater. There are still a handful of seats available
(01:04):
and there's a link to book in the show notes.
I promise it's going to be a super fun night.
You're going to learn a lot about your energy and
you're also going to come out with a seven day
experiment to boost it. And also there might be some
song and dance. Welcome to How I Work, a show
(01:27):
about habits, rituals, and strategies for optimizing your day. I'm
your host, doctor Amantha Imber.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
On the last episode, Amantha, we talked about The Energy Game,
your latest book, which is absolutely amazing and everyone needs
to buy it on audible and in hard copy and
electronic like all the things.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Get it where like good books are sold, I want
to know.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
We talked about this idea of the energy crisis and
how energy levels are what sustains us for high performance.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Someone listening right now, or probably quite a number of.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Listeners who are feeling like my energy is really low,
I am feeling really fatigued, I'm feeling really exhausted. If
they're listening, where would you begin at helping them to
rebuild their energy.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
What I do in The Energy Game is I break
the different challenges or strategies. There are fifty three of
them in the book into three different categories. So the
first category are boost strategies. So these are things that
will take you, on average, less than five minutes to
do that have been scientifically shown to instantly boost your energy,
(02:35):
so those times where you're feeling shattered but you need
to perform, So they're the boot strategies.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Secondly, we've got rest strategies.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
And what a lot of people do is what I
think of as fake rest, Like they will binge watch
Netflix at night on the cash because they've got no
energy to.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Do anything else, and.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
That feels like rest, but it's not really rare. They
will maybe scroll on social media. Again, that is kind
of doing the opposite of rest to your brain. And
so I talk about how do you actually do real
rest that doesn't have to take long. Most of the
rest strategies to truly rest and recharge you know, less
(03:18):
than ten minutes in the book. And then finally we've
got protect strategies. So how do you actually protect your
energy in the first place instead of letting it leak
out of you, typically through not setting boundaries and saying
yes to too many things.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Okay, so I my mind goes straight to, oh, I
don't want to talk about rest.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
I want to talk about the other ones.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
But we're going to get to rest because I think
that's the one that's really really difficult. We're going to
get to that in a sect, though, but I want
to know, let's start with boost. So someone listening, they're like,
you know, they might be an achievement addict like us,
and they're like, let me boost my energy asap, and
let me do it on one point five speed?
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Like how do I do that?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Which is totally the opposite of always trying to achieve people?
But anyway, I want to know this. Are there certain
strategies in the book that got I guess, great feedback
from the people who did the research with you, those
thirteen hundred people who tested all of these strategies, What
ones to you really stood out? Oh?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
There were there were quite a few standouts. Are we
should we talk about the boost ones? For well?
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Yeah, what do you think?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I mean? One that I did the other night. I'll
just to like jump and tell you my own feedback.
I was in I've been on the road all this
week and I actually have found, like I've been in
my body had found like the physical energy to be
quite low. And I was like, I had a really
like big dinner and I was reading the book at
the same time, I'm like, there's this one and it's
(04:51):
on in the Boost Strategy on page eighty seven, the
glucose stroll. Can you talk to me about that? Because
I did that and I want everyone else to learn
about it.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Okay, So what the glue cooast roll is all about.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
This is about what our blood sugar or blood gluecoast
levels are doing after we eat, and you know.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
If we're eating things that and I.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Don't want to say like because for everyone this is
quite individualized in terms of the sorts of foods that
are going to spike our blood glue cooast levels and
then lead to an inevitable crash.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
And I wrote more about that in my last book,
The Health Habit.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
But what we know from research that whatever you eat
for your meal, you're going to get like at least
a bit of a raise in your blood sugar and
therefore you're going to get a little bit of a crash,
which is where energy and you know, like we just
feel pretty rubbish, We feel exhausted, our brain's foggy, we
feel miserable, and you know, if that's happening to you,
(05:50):
about thirty minutes to sixty minutes after a meal.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
You probably didn't eat things.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
That were it was dabbled cheeseburger.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, from mackets as well.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
I was like on the road, so I was like, oh.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah, you're probably not going to feel great after that.
So what we know from research is that if we
can move our body, like just go for a gentle
stroll or a gentle walk around the block about thirty
to forty five minutes after we have eaten, it will significantly.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Curb that spike.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
So if you kind of imagine a graph and imagine
like a really big jump on the graph and then
a crash, that's what we want to reduce.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
We don't want that big jump.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
We just maybe want just like a tiny little mound
if you like. And so by going for a walk,
short walk movement, about ten to fifteen minutes of gentle
movement is all it takes. Like you don't have to
do a hardcore workout or anything. We are going to
significantly reduce that blood glucose spike, which means you're also
going to reduce the crash, So your energy will ultimately
(06:56):
be more sustained through making that choice.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Like, how did you feel?
Speaker 3 (07:00):
It was so weird because afterwards I read it, and
I'm of the view of like, well, if I'm going
to walk, I'm gonna speed walk, Like I'm gonna walk
really fast, because like, if you do anything, you should
do it with a purpose and level of energy. But
I have I deliberately went, now, I'm just gonna like
gentle stroll ten minutes.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
That's all I did.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
And then I turned the treadmill off, and I was
I felt so much better, And because like I had,
I could feel just that like, oh cool.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Because beforehand I was like really lethargic.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
I just felt really like bloated, gross, And just coming
back to what we said in the first episode. The
thing that I love so much about the strategies you
give is they're not unachievable.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
They're really simple.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
And I almost gave myself commission to go do what
the book said and just do ten minutes. So don't
try to don't always try to drive for more and more,
because that's part of the problem and the cycle that's
led us to have.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
I think these low energy levels one percent love that.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, yeah, I love that for me.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
So the glucos walk I really loved, and I want
to get into some of them around like some of
the actual practical strategies so that people can test these.
So write it down, glucose. If you've got your notes out, glucose,
stroll ten minutes. Can you talk to us about in
the boost strategy? There is a thank you letter one
and I again some of them, so many of them
(08:26):
really surprised me as far as I wouldn't have expected
that in boosting energy. So can you talk to us
about that one?
Speaker 1 (08:34):
So quite frankly, I do not need another wellbeing guru
to tell me to write a bloody gratitude list. And
so this is why I liked this particular research that
this technique comes from. And the recruit I think was
about one thousand Australians and they tested a number of
different strategies around how could they improve like an emotional
(08:58):
energy or you know, reduce emotional fatigue, So thinking about
our emotional energy account, which we talked about in the
last episode. And they did test the impact of writing
a gratitude list, which incidentally was about as effective as
writing a to do list.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
I'm so relieved to know that.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, yeah, me too, Me too.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
And one of the interventions that they tested was the
impact of writing a letter a thank you letter, So
calling someone out in your life and spending seven minutes
saying thank you through a letter. And then they took
this a step further and then they asked those people
(09:39):
who had written the letter to actually go and deliver
the letter or even read it out to the people
that they had written it for.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
And those that did that, they.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Had around a twenty five percent reduction in emotional exhaustion
and that effect lasted for several weeks after the experiment.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
So just through saying.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Thank you, ideally writing it down and then actually delivering
that thank you letter is a really simple but incredibly
effective way to boost that emotional energy account.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
So physically writing it like handwritten handwriting, you could type it.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
You know something I did I think this might have been.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I think it was when I was writing time wise
possibly and someone that's had a huge impact in my
life and I think was probably really influential in me
becoming a writer was my high school English teacher, mister Stewart,
And so I had the same English teacher from years
eight to year ten, and prior to year eight I.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Was not a fan of English.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
I did, okay, I think I was probably like a B. B.
Plus student. But you know, I grew up with a
mum that's a writer, and I think I was kind
of expected to enjoy reading and enjoy writing and be
really good at that.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
And I didn't.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I didn't like reading and I didn't like writing. But
then in year eight, I remember I was, you know,
I was met with this English teacher that was so
passionate about storytelling and Shakespeare and language, and you couldn't
help but be sucked in by that passion for words.
And that completely turned me around. I became a very
(11:22):
very good and motivated English student. And when I was
writing time wise, I was thinking about mister Stewart and
I looked him up on LinkedIn and I spent some
time writing him a note and telling him just what
a huge impact his three years of teaching me when
I was a teenager had on me.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
And here I was like writing books.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
That's so good.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
I love those moments, and I think about the simplicity
of that story and even you know, what's really funny
is that still we call our teachers mister Stewart.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Stewart, we wouldn't be out of you said first name.
But it's it to me again.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
It comes back to the simplicity of this stuff, that
the little things that can have a huge uplift in
your own energy, and that, I mean, what a beautiful
way to do to like instead of it, I guess
going back to the Wei mode versus me mode.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
It's one of those nice ways to.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Move from focusing on me and what I need to
do to build my energy, but actually showing gratitude. And
how amazing for him. I'm sure that made his absolute
weak seeing that. What did he I'm just curious what
did he respond to?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
He respond?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
He responded quite quickly and and really beautifully. He said
something like, you know, like thank you. That means a lot,
and I always knew you'd do something great.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
And that surprised me because, like you know, teachers teach so.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Many hundreds, if not thousands of students, the ones that
our career teaches as he was and still is, and
I was just blown away by that.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Note.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
So we've got these boost strategy. You've talked about the gratitude,
this thank you letter. You've also we've talked about the
glucose walk. This one's really interesting to me and I
know a few of our people who are here watching
us record this. Are also very keen to know about
the acupressure strategy. Can you talk to us about this one? Okay,
(13:24):
So I hate needles.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
I did try acupuncture once where needles are stuck in
when you're pregnant. It was when I was trying to
get pregnant, and I thought, everyone talks about acupuncture, I
will get some needles stuck in my body and just relax.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
It's not relaxing at all.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Not relaxing at all. I will not be doing that again.
And then when I was researching the Energy Game, I
was reading a lot about acupressure where you're still identifying
those same pressure points, but instead of sticking a needle
into yourself for having someone else do that, you're simply
using your fingers to apply pressure and rubbing that spot
(14:07):
in a circular motion, just gently, like for about three minutes.
And there's a particular protocol that I write about in
the book where there are five points to apply pressure
to three minutes each and we can talk through a
few of those that are above waist height.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
And just through doing that. Because a lot of the studies.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Around energy are done with there's a lot of healthcare
worker studies because you know that burnout's huge.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
There.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
There's quite a lot of studies that have been done
with cancer patients because fatigue is a huge side effect
of cancer and treatment for cancer. And so I think
you know, there was a particular study here that was
done with breast cancer people that were going through breast
cancer treatment and through doing this particular ACU pressure protocol
(14:56):
just for fifteen minutes a day for about six weeks,
they experienced it was about a forty five percent reduction
in fatigue. Wow, just through fifteen minutes a day of
putting some pressure on some different pressure points. So three
of the points that are above waist height, which you
know works for video, is just the point that's right
(15:17):
between your eyebrows. So just putting pressure just so that's
what between your eyebrows, rubbing in a circular motion for
three minutes.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Yeah, so you have to do it for a full
three minutes.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
That's what they did in the research. So you could
possibly do less. You could try that, but I'm always
a fan of sticking to the protocol in the research
that's actually been shown to give results. Now, another spot
is just just behind the bottom of your ears. If
you kind of like put your fingers just under your
ears and just a little bit upper, but you'll you'll
sort of feel like an indentation. And if you put
(15:51):
pressure there and just rub their just kind of you know,
behind your ear lobe, and you can do both sides
at the same time.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
That is another spot that was part of the protocol.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Yeah, just while you're doing this amount and we're all
practicing with you, every single person in the studio is also.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Looking.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
All these people were like, I need more energy.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Okay, So behind the ear behine is and then the
third spot that is at least above the waist is
just just below kind of like your wrist. If you
follow the line down from your little finger down to
your wrist again, there's like a little indentation just like
below your palm, kind of like near where your wrist creases.
(16:33):
Hopefully I'm describing this okay for those just looking into
the audio, but again you'll find like a little indentation there.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
And that is a third spot. Just sort of putting
some pressure.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
There, okay, and then you put the pressure there for
three minutes.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
But three minutes just rub in a circular motion.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
And the other spots are for those playing along at home,
just kind of if you think about where your ankle
bone is about three finger lengths up from that behind
your shins. If you kind of grip behind there, behind
your shins again, you'll feel an indentation just prying a
(17:11):
pressure there. And then the final spot is between your
big toe and your second toe, just kind of where
the webbing is. If you like, not that we're ducks,
but you know what I mean, just like between those
tries putting some pressure there.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
Well, and you know, I'm really glad you cry fid
they were not ducks because.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Because you're wondering what's curious?
Speaker 4 (17:26):
I was thinking, who am I today?
Speaker 3 (17:29):
But I do love that again it's coming back to
you and I think about those three categories of challenges.
So we've got fewty three challenges boost, rest and protect,
But then they apply going back to your energy accounts.
I almost think like the energy accounts and the link
between the two, like the emotional energy account if it's low,
(17:49):
the Sankey letter in boost can really help with that.
So I just piecing this all together and being able
to understand how you can boost energy in the relevant
as well. So again this is all it's just super
helpful putting together the dots.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yes, an interestingly side note which may or may not
be an interesting side note when I was writing The
Energy Game in one of the well certainly in the
very first draft of the manuscript, for every one of
those fifty three challenges, I actually had which account or
accounts it was best for boosting but or like increasing
(18:25):
not besting.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
But what was then a.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Bit of a struggle is that the research wasn't quite
clear for some of their strategies which account it was increasing.
And so the purest in me and also my editors
in Penguin made the call to just delete that from
the different toolkit cards that you will see in the books.
So some of them it's very clear which energy account
(18:49):
they give you some deposits into and others it's going
to be all three and others I could make it
educated guess.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
But there is no science. So hence that was edited.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Very classic Amantha Invera style, like no, no, the science
is not there, So we will remove for the integrity
of it.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
Which I love, which I love, I want to go
into rest.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
And this is a personal challenge for mine, surprise, surprise,
And I heard on a podcast probably about a year
ago someone talk about how high achievers need to have
a rest ethic that matches their work ethic, and it's
rattled around in my head since then because I think
of I've never associated rest as being Actually it's an ethic.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
You need to build it.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
It is hard to build, just like your work ethic
is hard to build. The habit of rest and genuine rest,
not fake rest, as you say, is very difficult. Why
do high achievers and high performers find it so hard
to rest.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Well?
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I mean, there's so many reasons. I think the most
common one is that, well, I don't have time to rest.
I'm too busy doing all the things and keeping all
those balls in the air, And where am I going
to find the time because I'm so busy? But to that,
I like to ask the question. And let me ask
(20:14):
this of you, Shelley. Have you ever woken up in
the morning and thought, I don't have time to scroll
on Instagram today.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
I'm too busy. No, there you go, So you've got
time to rest?
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Well?
Speaker 4 (20:31):
Very well put And yeah, it is like that exception.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
That's not the question I thought you were gonna ask,
But I'm glad you did.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yes, you're right.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
So if we think about then the rest challenges. Oh,
this one I didn't like?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Oh which one?
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (20:50):
I really didn't like it. It made me uncomfortable. I'm curious
the Silent Walk, I would love that. Can we just me, okay,
can I tell you I don't like at first?
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Tell me tell me so?
Speaker 4 (21:04):
I have I have to.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
I've got such a noisy brain, and I was like
when I saw the Silent Work, I was like, but wait,
what do you do with your thoughts?
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Where do the thoughts go?
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Like I need the music for the thoughts, Like I
don't want I don't want to be alone with my thoughts.
And so now you're telling me I need to be
alone with my thoughts.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
So talk to us about that. Yeah, and look for
this one. I will say.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
I read the book Digital Minimalism by Cal Newport. I
think you put that out maybe in twenty nineteen, I
want to say, and that really changed my perception with
how most of us, certainly you and I I suspect,
just feel like there needs to be stimulus going in
our brain at all times because I'm never going to
(21:50):
have the time to listen to all the podcast episodes
and all the songs that I want to listen to
and all the things that need to go in my
brain so that I can learn, learn, learn, and never
sit still.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
And I thought that that was healthy.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
And what cal Newport talks about in digital Minimalism is
that that's actually quite unhealthy, and that our brains need
time to breathe, they need time to be bored, and
when we stop just loading our brains up with stimulus,
they have time to be still and to ponder and create.
(22:22):
And when I read that book many years ago, I
set myself the challenge. I calculated approximately how many hours
I was listening to podcasts per week, and it was
about about six hours I'd calculated, So it was all
the all my workout time, and it was all.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
My commute time.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Might have been eight hours even And I made the
commitment that I was going to cut that back by
fifty percent, so every second workout I'd have nothing going
in my ears.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Oh I know, and don't love that?
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah, And so and then for my commute into the city,
my commute into the city, I was stimular free.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
My commute home, I was allowed to listen to a podcast.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
That was your little reward as well, coming back into
the stimulus addiction, and what I found is that those
times where I wasn't just loading my brain up with stimulus,
it was like this creativity was unleashed in my brain.
It was like nothing I had experienced in many, many
(23:25):
months prior, and and you know, it became incredibly compelling.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
To just go, I wonder what's going to pop into
my brain today.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
It was it was like just this fire hose of
ideas and it was amazing. And when I was researching
the energy game, I was like, I wonder what, like,
I wonder you know, where the science is around that?
And I found this really interesting study that took a
group of people and they were sent on a twelve
minute walk and half the people were told look at
(23:55):
your phones while you're walking, like full permission to just
be in your mobile, as a lot of people are
when they're going for a walk. And then the second
group were phone free. They were not allowed to take
anything with them. And what they found is that, not surprisingly,
the group that spent those twelve minutes without their phone
and went for a walk, it was three parks or
(24:16):
getting a bit of a nature hit as well, and
just being present with their surroundings, came back feeling significantly happier,
more recharged, and.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Just reported feeling I just felt really present and in
the moment.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Compared to the phone walkers that were hunched over, they
felt pretty crappy after the walk. Even though walks are
meant to be good for us, but they're not so
great for us when we're on our phones. And so
I call this the silent walk. Just go and it
doesn't need to be long. Their study was twelve minutes.
It was a twelve minute walk, like we could all
find time to just go for a ten or twelve
minute walk just around the block as a break during
(24:52):
the workday. This is one of the techniques I must
say that I use. I would say every single day.
I find it so powerful because my work is so
you know, it's it's computer based or as people based.
There's always stimulus buzzing around in my head. And just
to have that break for ten to twelve minutes I
find is so incredibly recharging.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Okay, So I like that we framed it as an
energy challenge because I would find that challenging twelve minutes.
So I'm going to try that one in the next
week and I'm gonna let you know how I go
with the twelve minutes silent walk. Yeah like sound like
like you can see how excited I sound and feel.
I'm gonna try it, and I'm gonna let you know.
(25:34):
But I do like the idea of and I think
about digital minimalism and Caunport's work and again had the
same kind of vibe of that of like, oh, that
feels scary to be alone with your thoughts. But I'll
let you know how I go with my creativit because
you do want that creative energy. I think when your
work's cognitively demanding and like you are getting a lot
of input of info, but you're not having that space,
(25:58):
I can see how that will really would help with
your creativity.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Coming up next, I explain the tapping technique that I
swear ended with a blue tongued lizard sitting on my
lap and this is for someone that hates lizards. And
later on I share the single worst speaking gig of
my life, six hundred people talking over me while I
was up on stage, and the list that I started
(26:29):
that very night that saved me from ever repeating that
experience again.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
Okay, next challenge, can we the tapping reset.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Can you talk to me about that? Okay?
Speaker 1 (26:49):
So this is this is a technique called AFT or
emotional freedom technique AFT. How's commonly thought about and it
is going to sound really woo, but there is a
surprising amount of science behind it. So I first came
(27:09):
across this strategy over ten years ago, where it's quite
a common way to treat phobias. Funnily enough, it's also
brilliant for energy and managing stress, but it's very common
for phobia management. And I had a phobia of lizards.
And I can't remember why I was so motivated to
(27:30):
work on it at the time, but I was. And
I was recommended this practice EFT practitioner, and he was
an hour away from my house, which is annoying because
I'm inner city Melbourne and things should not be an
hour away.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
No, they shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
They absolutely show Yeah, that is how committed I was.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
So every Monday afternoon, I'd drive out to this guy's
house and we would sit around and I would tap
on my face primarily and say a kind of mantra
out loud. And I did that for it was about
seven or eight sessions, and then by the eighth session.
I had a blue tongue lizard sitting on my life.
(28:10):
No way, yeah, yeah, but unfortunately I didn't generalize to
skinks and geckos.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Way species medium to large sized, listends cool, would it be?
Okay about that? Big? Not too bad? Not to They've
got massive clause, that's all right? About how fast are they? Oh? Fast? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Really?
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Yeah, goennas. They would move fast. Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
There's not not too many in inner city Melbourne, so
we're cool.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
We're cool.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
I really want to have a separate part three of
this podcast is tell us about the lizard lizards and
the Yeah, please, can we dig into that in as
much detail as we possibly can? But that's a separate episode. Okay,
So anyone listening, how do we do it? Because I know,
first of all, every single person in this in the
studio right now wants to do the tapping reset like
(29:03):
I want to do that, And can I say my
fear yes, which I've talked about on my pod before.
I hate flying and I fly multiple times every week.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
I hate planes.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
I get like flight anxiety, and now I'm thinking this
could really help me with my flight anxiety.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
This would be brilliant.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Okay, this would be brilliant and so look, in the
context of energy, this is really great when you are
feeling overwhelmed by stress and stressful thoughts, and this is
where you can help calm yourself down.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
But it's also good for phobias.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
So how this works, again, this is a bit visual,
so I'll try to describe our way through it. So
what we're going to do is we're going to be
tapping on different points of our body, primarily around our face,
and we're going to be saying, and like the exact
wording is fairly flexible, but essentially it's saying, even though
(29:55):
I am feeling ex emotion, so even though I am
feeling nervous about this flight, I deeply and completely accept myself.
So which sounds a bit woo And there are variations
that I write about in the book that you know
might feel less woose. So you are saying that either
out loud or in your head to yourself as you're tapping.
(30:16):
And so the first point to tap is it's called
the karate chop point. So it's kind of imagine you're
karate chopping a block of wood.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Imagine the part of your.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Hand just kind of like down the line of your
little finger towards your wrist. It's like the side of
your hand. You're just tapping like with you know, three
or four fingers. You're just tapping quite fast, like one, two, three,
four fives, that that kind of speed. Okay, you're just
tapping that point, and you're kind of doing that for
about nine or ten taps. Then you're moving to the
(30:46):
next point, which is the same point as the ACU
pressure point. So just between your eyebrows, Okay, tapping that point.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
And so while I'm tapping, I'm saying, you're saying, even
though I'm anxious about this.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Flight, but I deeply and completely accept myself. And you're
saying that over and over again. Now you're moving down
to just the kind of the bony point below your
eye I guess your sinuses. Yeah, and you're tapping there
and you're repeating what you're saying. You're then moving down
to the spot what's it called, like your Cupid's boke,
(31:18):
like just between your bottom of your nose and the
top of your lips.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
So, and do you have to do all of the
points like as part of the process or can you
just do one?
Speaker 1 (31:27):
You need to work through most of them. I don't
think you need to work through all of them. And
then there are a couple more so. The next one
is just below your bottom lip and sort of like
where your chin is, tapping there, then tapping just like
kind of on your collar bones and like with both
hands and you can alternate or tap hands at the
same time. Then just at the side of your body,
(31:49):
kind of like if you're a woman and wearing a
bra where your brass trap is, so just kind of
tapping at the side of your body, and then you
can also tap just at the.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Crown of your head.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
And then you just like repeat that cycle, go back
to the beginning and just keep tapping and kind of
do that for generally like five to ten minutes is
about right, And then you want to then just check
back in and go how am I feeling in my
body about the thing that was stressing me out? So
you kind of start by going where what's that level
of stress? Like out of ten and maybe you're an
(32:18):
eight out of ten, And then when you've done a
few rounds of the tapping, you then ask yourself, Okay,
how am I feeling now in terms of that stressor
and hopefully you've gone down a bit, and if you
want to keep going down, you might do a few
more rounds of the tapping until you're you know, maybe.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Down to A two or a three.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
So that's essentially what I did every session with the
lizard Guy as he shall be known, and doing that enough,
essentially it's kind of changing, like it's rewiring those thoughts
in your brain. Is essentially like from a scientific point
of view, what is happening by tapping while repeating this mantra,
(32:57):
And it's almost like disconnecting the those connections in your
brain that were not serving you very well in terms
of those stressful thoughts that were like activating a stress
response in you.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
And so how long did you do that for with
the lizard guy to get to the.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Point where you could have the blue tongue lizard on
your lab.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
So yeah, I think it was about seven or eight
sessions we kem and we would probably you know, we
spent a lot of time talking about, you know, the theory
and the research behind EFT and him just teaching me it.
But in terms of tapping time, maybe like ten to
fifteen minutes worth of tapping time each week.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
I mean, again, there's so many great surprises in the
book of like strategies you just never would have thought
of like that. Again, like you go into so so
many practical strategies, but I'm going to use that one
because it, like the plain thing, is really inconvenient.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
I mean, much help, little highly for you.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
I mean, I'm curious to know how many lizards you
are trying to encounter. Again, that's next episode, Okay, So
I want to get onto two final strategies in the
protect space. Okay, So thinking about that leaking bucket. The
bucket's got holes in it, it's leaking. We want to
(34:11):
close those holes and stop the energy leak. This one,
I really loved the yes triage. Can you talk to
us about that?
Speaker 1 (34:20):
So the yes triage, the thinking behind this came from
Adam Grant, who was an organizational psychologist that I think
we both adore, and he's been on the How I
Work podcast a few times, and I remember I think
it was the very first time I had him on.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
I was curious for someone.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
That is so giving as a person, but also someone
that has so many requests made on his time.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
I was asking him about how does he decide what
to say yes.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
To and what to say no to and he talked
to me about this almost this hierarchy of yeses and
how I guess his version of the yes triage as
I think of it. And you know, he says, well,
you know, like, aside from family and friends, students are
the very top because I became a teacher a professor
(35:12):
because I knew how much impact the professors that I
had had when I was a student had had on me,
and I wanted to have that impact. And so students
are at the top of that hierarchy. And he sort
of talks through who is on that hierarchy, but towards
the bottom of the hierarchy fellow professors. He's like, I
didn't go into teaching to help other professors.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
That wasn't why.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
And it was useful for him to unpack that because
it helps you when you're met with all the incoming
requests on our time that we're all met with, to
have a structured approach to going okay, rather than having
to have all this mental angst around and waste time
on that. It's just a straightforward decision. So what I
(35:55):
talk about in the book is my version of that,
which I call the yes treat where it's really simple
when someone asks for your time in some way, shape
or form. And I know that this is sometimes a
luxury because sometimes we do not have the choice to
say no, but where we do have the choice, firstly,
asking yourself, does this actually align with my top priorities,
(36:18):
say my top three priorities for the month, because it's
really easy to let other people's priorities become your own priorities.
And particularly if we're a people pleaser or an over committer,
those two particular energy types that we talked about in
the part one episode, we kind of just want to
say yes no matter whether it aligns with our goals
(36:41):
or whether it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
So that's the first question.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
The second question is do I have the energy to
do justice to this request, which again can seem like
a strange question to ask do I have energy to
do this thing?
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Most of us don't think about that.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
They just said, well, I should do the thing, I
should say yes, But asking yourself, do I truly have
energy to do this thing and do it well? Because
no one needs the exhausted version of you. That's not
going to serve anyone well, particularly you. And then the
third question is are you saying yes out of enthusiasm
or are you saying yes out of guilt or pressure
or something negative? Because again, you know, particularly those that
(37:20):
are you know, in the in those four types a
perfectionist or a people please, there's so more anxiety driven
as opposed to ambition driven, are often going to say
yes from a place of well, I have to do
I have to do the thing. I feel pressure, I'm
you know, I'm going to feel real guilt if I
don't say yes. So just thinking, is there yes coming
from a place of enthusiasm, and I say, look, if
(37:41):
you can say yes to two out of three of
those questions for the yes triage is probably worth doing.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
I find that so helpful because so many like reluctant
yess that you go, oh, I knew at the time
if I had sat with this more, I would have
been like, this is a hard no.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
But because you're like, oh, I'm under pressure.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
And sometimes I find it takes less emotional energy in
the moment to say yes and it does just say no,
but it takes far greater energy to then deliver on
that yes that you made in a short, sharp decision
like I just think again, the reflective questions in that
challenge to me was just so profound. They sound simple,
(38:23):
but I think they are really profound because they just
get you to reframe. Am I saying yes out of guilt?
Is there a level of enthusiasm about this? And if
there's not, then why would I do it?
Speaker 4 (38:32):
So even the two out of three to me is
really really solid.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
One final thing for you on one final challenge that
I really loved, really loved this one and I need
this in my life, the Never Again list?
Speaker 4 (38:47):
Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 2 (38:49):
I can so this one?
Speaker 1 (38:53):
And look, the very first item that ever went on
this list happened because of this story. So you and
I've to a lot of keynote speaking, and I have
a loose rule that I.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Don't speak at dinner events.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
And look, I don't get asked to speak at too
many dinner events. People I think know that the kinds
of topics that I speak about that are, you know,
around productivity and well being and AI. It's like they're
better in the daytime the latter day, and they're better
without alcohol, let's face it. And I so typically say no,
(39:28):
but it was never a hard and fast rule. And
then I found myself and I think this was in
twenty eighteen, I think or twenty nineteen, speaking at a
dinner event and it was a really big awards night
and I was speaking about innovation, I think, and it
was like, you know, this this packed venues, six hundred
(39:51):
people all sitting around cabaret style seating eating their manes
while I was up on stage doing a twenty minute
keynote about innovation for these Innovation Awards.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
And I remember, throughout that whole entire.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Presentation, I could not actually hear myself speak because the
lad that the volume of the room and the people
having conversations while they were you know, clattering their knives and.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
The cat on the plate.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
But seriously, the conversations that people were having while I
was talking, could not hear myself. I just wanted that
stage to swallow me whole. It was the single worst
speaking experience I've had in my life. And I remember
getting off the stage and Adam Spencer was m seeing
the event, and I said to Adam, oh my gosh,
(40:44):
I am like, I.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Feel absolutely humiliated by what went on.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
It's like it wasn't that bad, like, you know, just
the acoustics are really bad, so it sounded like no
one was listening, but don't worry, people were listening and
I'm just thinking, didn't feel that way. Felt pretty sucky
to me. And after that event, I said to myself,
never again will I say yes to speaking at a
dinner event. And at that moment I started my never
(41:10):
again list, because the never again list is thinking about
what are those experiences that you've had and maybe you've
had them a few times and you've said yes for
whatever reason, and then you have them and then you
do the same thing again.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
And you're like, I should not have done that. Never again.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
So I have a never again list, which makes it
really easy to say no to things because I don't
Never again will I speak at a dinner event. Never
again will I go on a roller coaster?
Speaker 4 (41:38):
Is that on there?
Speaker 2 (41:39):
That is absolutely on it.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
It's like these are just hard and fast rules that
I live by. Never again list removes so much decision
making energy.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
Never again will I hug? Going to hug the CEO,
I'll just go for the handshake. And if they want
to initiate a hug, I.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
Mean I've done that multiple times where it's just gone
so bad. I'm like, like everyone gets a hug and
it's like no, no, never again. Actually I have to
like remind myself of that every every day, like just
don't if you could just do one thing today, don't
try to give the CEO a hug, Like, so that's on,
I haven't got my that's on the top of my list,
And have.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
You got anything else on your never end?
Speaker 3 (42:18):
Oh yeah, I mean I love this because I do
find you have recurring occurring Absolutely. I I am very
protective of my evenings when I'm traveling, so people will
often it's only a very like very small instance where
I would have a dinner in Melbourne, That's what I mean, small,
(42:43):
very small group of people here. I'll be like, yes,
we are catching up for dinner. We've done that multiple times.
It's always Japanese. I think certain things that you just
learn about yourself where I know, for me, my energy
recharges with time to myself, and when you're like facilitating
big rooms of people all day, that is such an
(43:04):
energy drain. And so I've got a pretty hard and
fast rule within a small small handful of people that
are exceptions to this, where I'll go, I don't do
a dinner with a social dinner after I've done a
keynote or a workshop or something like that. So that's
on my never again list, But I think it's really
helpful for people just to eliminate that, Like you say,
(43:27):
the decision making energy.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
Do I say yes to this? Do I say notice?
Speaker 3 (43:30):
It's like no, I remember that twenty minute keynote where
people were talking through its stuff. So I just that
is one of my so rude first of all, but
also the one thing the clanking of glasses and color.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Just it's the worst. It's the worst.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
Hey, I know people are going to want to get
this book, and I want one final thought from you
for a listener right now who the energy is low
and something you would have loved to have heard in
that moment where your energy is low?
Speaker 4 (44:01):
What would you say to them?
Speaker 1 (44:04):
So, I mean, like, the big thing I learned when
I was doing research for The Energy Game is that
you don't have to overhaul your life. And often if
you are at a point of burnout, there probably are
some big decisions you need to make and some big
changes that you need to make. And I do write
about that in the Energy Game because I did make
some very big changes in twenty twenty four and they
(44:26):
absolutely lifted my energy. But I couldn't have done that
without starting small and starting with the challenges that I
write about in the Energy Game to start to claw
back and build back some of that energy that was
just absolutely missing from me in that year.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
Beautiful. Well, hey, everyone needs to get the book.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
Mine is absolutely I have used so many of the
strategies already.
Speaker 4 (44:48):
It is.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
It is such a helpful resource, super practical, but so
many of the parts of it that are so profoundly relatable.
You're going to get so much out of it. Audible,
get a hard copy, get it on kindle. Amantha, you
are one of my favorite people and I just adore you,
adore your work, and so thanks for hanging out.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
Oh thanks, Shelly, right back at you too.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
I hope that this episode has shown you that you
do not have to overhaul.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Your life to get your energy back.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
And really that was the thing that I learned the
hard way in twenty twenty four and it's really what
I most want you to take away from this conversation.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
So pictures one thing today.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Maybe it's a glucose stroll after your next meal, or
a twelve minute silent walk without your phone. So if
you want more strategies. My new book, The Energy Game
is out now wherever you buy books. It is packed
with science back strategies to help you recover from burnout
or even just exhaustion and rebuild your energy. There is
(45:51):
a link to buy it in the show notes. And
if you enjoyed this episode, hit follow so that you
don't miss what's coming next on How I Work.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
If you like.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Today's show, make sure you hit follow on your podcast
app to be alerted when new episodes drop. How I
Work was recorded on the traditional land of the Warrangery people,
part of the Kohen Nation. A big thank you to
Martinimma for doing the sound mix.
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