July 22, 2026 • 28 mins
** Grab tickets for The Energy Game Melbourne launch (29 July, 6:30pm) here and order The Energy Game book here.**
What if the stories you're most afraid to tell are the ones people most need to hear?
Christian O'Connell has spent 28 years pulling stories out of strangers on live radio. He's had two number one breakfast shows on opposite sides of the planet. And yet off-air, he still catches himself at dinner with his family thinking he hasn't said anything funny in a couple of minutes, and that inner critic starting to spiral.
In part one of our two-part conversation, I sit down with Christian to explore what he's learned from nearly three decades of live storytelling - and why most of us are telling our stories all wrong.
Whether you tell stories for a living or you just want to hold a room for 30 seconds at a dinner party, this conversation will give you a completely different way to think about why some stories land and others don't.
Christian and I discuss:
- The woodshed: the note-taking habit Christian uses so he's never stuck for something to say
- Why the stories you least want to tell are usually the ones that land hardest
- The two levels inside every story, and why most of us only ever tell one of them
- The physical test Christian uses to decide if a story is worth sharing
- Why the best storytellers relive rather than retell, and what that looks like in practice
- How speaking anxiety comes down to one thing, and it's not what most people think
Key quotes
"Vulnerability is the currency of great storytelling. If there's no vulnerability in here, there's no real connection in it."
"The more you dial into the particulars of a story, somehow it becomes more universal."
Connect with Christian O'Connell on Instagram, X (Twitter), LinkedIn and his website. Tune in to The Christian O’Connell Show and check out his latest book Unscript: The Radical Act of Being Yourself.
My latest book The Energy Game is out now. You can order a copy here: https://amzn.to/48ID29M
Connect with me on the socials: Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/amanthaimber
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I think with all stories there's two levels. There's what's
happening and then what's really happening underneath it. And actually,
when you take the time to think about what's really
happening underneath this story, that's where the feelings are.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
That's the voice of Christian O'Connell. If you've had breakfast
radio on in Australia or the UK anytime in the
last twenty years, you have almost certainly heard it. Christian
is one of the most successful radiohearsts in the world,
with two number one shows on opposite sides of the planet,
and off air, he still catches himself mid story thinking
(00:35):
you're quite boring. Today, most of us tell stories on autopilot.
We recount what happened, the traffic, the flight, the fight
with our sister, and then we stop. We never ask
what the story is actually about, which is probably why
half the stories we tell get a polite nod and
nothing more. Christian has spent twenty eight years pulling stories
(00:58):
out of strangers on live radio, and he's put all
of it into a book called Unscript. I read it
in one sitting on a Saturday afternoon, and by the
end I had worked my way through a lot of tissues.
In part one of this two part conversation, Christian shares
the deceptively simple habit that means he never runs dry
(01:21):
on things to say, along with why he almost cut
one story that made him so while writing it about
selling a couch, and Christian also shares what actually makes
a story land, which turns out to be far simpler
and also a bit more physical than you'd think. And
by the way, if you happen to be in Melbourne,
(01:43):
then I would love for you to join me at
my Melbourne book launch of The Energy Game, which is
happening on July twenty nine at the malt House Theater.
There are still a handful of seats available and there
is a link to book in the show notes. It's
going to be a super fun night where not only
you learn a lot about your own energy, but you'll
(02:03):
come out with a plan to significantly boost your energy
in the next seven days. And there might also be
some song and dance. Welcome to How I Work, a
show about habits, rituals and strategies for optimizing your day.
(02:25):
I'm your host, Doctor Amantha Imber.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Christian.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yes, it's good to be back again.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Now it's greatly back. And also I must have say,
the seeds of this book I've written come from actually
the last chat I had with you after the pod interview.
I was sort of shared, oh, Len, I'm thinking about
maybe some coaching or mentoring, and you actually said you'd
be great, that you should do that. That validation meant
a lot to me, and that actually I did go
(02:57):
on and do that, and then that book is partly
through what it was like coaching people in connection and communication.
So thank you for doing that my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I do remember after I think it was our last
chat on how I work the week exchanged a few
audio messages and you were sharing some really loose thoughts
for the book, and I got to say, I mean,
I left you an audio message on the weekend and
I read unscript in one sitting. I read it on
Saturday afternoon. I do like a just in time approach
to preparing for interviews sitting inline. Yeah, yeah, well, the
(03:30):
fear of a deadline, but also things just stay in
my head for a few days, and then it just
feels easier to have a conversation as well, because I'm
so excited to talk about what's in the book. And
I loved it. It was so moving. I don't know
how many tissues I went through, but it was quite
a lot. And I'm glad that we've got a box
of tissues here today just in case, just in case,
(03:51):
I don't know where this conversation, Well, what.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Did you find? What moved you?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Then?
Speaker 1 (03:54):
What was the moving?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
It was the stories. Yeah, it was the stories. Every
one of the times that I was moved, it was
one of the stories. And that's actually where I want
to start, because you talk about the wood shed in
the book towards the end, actually tell me what is
the woodshed?
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Well, look at something I do because of the nature
of my job. So I do a radio show five
days a week, been doing that for twenty eight years,
and so I've got three hours of radio to do
every day. So I need to have somewhere where I
saw ideas. And so it literally is a file on
my notes that I call the woodshed. And I've trained
the team to do this and so as I notice
(04:33):
things during the day, that's really what my job is
to pay attention because people are always one of the
questions always say to me, other than what time to
get up in the morning, is how do you where
do you get all your ideas from? And actually I'm
constantly trying to be more present, and when any of
us do that, you'll notice more about the oddness, the
beauty and the absurdity of life. And so whenever a
(04:53):
little spark like that happens, I just type in a
word or phrase. It's not I need to know what
is the what could I turn this into? It's just
literally like a woodshed, You've just got stores the wood
somewhere to keep it dry and safe. And if you
don't store it somewhere, where are you going to store it?
And so I dogever you want to do this Because
sometimes you get nervous about a social function, I've got
(05:15):
nothing to talk about. But actually, if you're in banking
stuff for a week or two, you'll have a couple
of things and sometimes it's just like, ah, do you
think this is odd? I saw this the other day?
And so I think a lot of our nerves about
socially encounters not having enough to talk about is actually
you don't know how to find those stories and look
after them and actually collect them. And then sometimes even
(05:36):
when I'm going out socially, I'll go back through stuff,
and I imagine putting one or two things in my
back pocket, and then when I am in you know
where a conversation just falls flat, and you might be
talking to someone that's a bit boring and you think,
oh my god, I'm going to have to reignite this conversation.
You've got something that can do that. You go, you
get to get a bit of timber from your woodshed
and chuck it on the fire between you.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I love that advice in the book, actually, and I've
never thought about doing that because I am someone who
is naturally more introverted. I used to have more social
anxiety than I do now because I feel like a
lot of my job is just speaking to people and
being with people and having conversations. But I love the
(06:17):
idea of thinking about what are the things that have
happened to me, even just little anecdotes from the last
couple of weeks, because my mind is always blank when
I'm in the conversation if I haven't thought about that.
And I thought that was just such great practical advice.
I think for me, I normally just rely on my
curiosity and my question asking muscle, as opposed to thinking, oh,
(06:39):
what can I share about myself because I'm often at
a loss as to what can I share that anyone
would find interesting, which is obviously my voice.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Yeah, I know, and all of us have two voices.
There's the one when we're talking out loud and in
a critic, which is a lot of sounds like a bully.
And so actually one thing that can help in those things,
it's like, how are you going to find ideas? It's
like a lot of people have coased over the years,
people who said I don't have any funny stories, and
I say, there's no way. You've lived a life. You
(07:08):
just don't know how to find them and collect them.
You have got funny stories everybody, does, you know. I
talk about the book about the uber driver who said,
you know, well that nothing interesting happens to me. I went,
are you a full time overdrive? And he talks about
no part time? To this insurance company. I went, you
must get some really weird insurance claims, and he goes, oh, well,
the other week there was someone who was sat on
her toilet and the floor broke and she went through
(07:30):
the floor on a toilet into the downstairs apartment. I went,
you don't think that's interesting, and so I talked about
bizarre insurance claims you've made people have got all flaws
is giving way and we had a whole hour of
great stories. And so there are things that happened to us.
There are And actually the one nice bit of wisdom
isn't just about opening up and being more aware during
the day, and it's almost finding pockets. We can just
(07:52):
look around or that was a bit odd, or did
you what are that person just over here is and
write them downs. It makes it's a way of being
more present during your day. And most of us, me included,
we're sleep walking during the day. We're thinking about that shoppingness.
We haven't get something on that to do with this.
We're rarely in present time, in moment, and so when
you do become a bit more present during the day,
(08:14):
you might overhear something. And also sometimes it's like, what's
annoyed you today? If you're going to watch Jerry sciinfel
I do stand up, that's a man who's moaning about
being annoyed, but he does it with such charm and
energy everyone thinks it is joyce. It is you can
be really funny moaning about stuff. It's really great comedians
built careers out of this.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
What are those I guess emotional triggers or reactions that
you're looking for and how you're reacting to the world
around you that make you think, Ah, I think that's
a good story or a good anecdote.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I think with stories, I think it's the audience don't
care about the story as much as they care how
you feel about it. And so my job on the
radio every day when I'm about to tell a story
is to tune into that story. What is this really about?
So you could sell all this is there's a story
in the book about having to sell the couch that
our family had had for ten years. This is selling
(09:05):
a couch, but actually, go how do I feel about?
This is about grief because in ten years of enormous
change in my life, what should my daughters grow up
moving the other side of the world. That couch has
been a constant literal, physical support and emotional support. We've
had arguments on there, We've cried, we've hugged, we've laughed
at TV shows, watched movies. A couch, Actually think about
it is a big part of your life and a family,
(09:27):
and so giving it away, selling it was actually incredibly
emotional thing. But me knowing that and dialing into that
could tell that the story in a much I think
with all stories there's two levels. There's what's happening and
then what's really happening underneath it? And actually, when you
take the time to think about what's really happening underneath
this story, that's where all like the juice is, that's
all where the feelings are. How do I feel about
(09:49):
the story? What is this story really about? What's the
heart of it? That is a beautiful way to actually
slow down, because you can think about an episode of
your life, so it's something really bad happened, and so
you can actually slow down sometimes a bit later and
go back to that and almost excavate your life and go, actually,
what was what was happening here now? And you see
(10:10):
it differently, We see it with fresh eyes and maybe
a bit more of an open heart, and then you
can take a new story from something, and that can
be energizing and transforming in your life. But that really
is that's storytelling. It's the stories we tell ourselves about
who we are and who we think we are are
the biggest area for growth and also the most the
hardest things. You know, I'm trying to write that book
for five years. The amount of times I thought I've
(10:33):
got it, and then it was rubbish because it was
like I was either trying to do a very boring
ted talk. I thought I needed to be Tony Robbins
and that the world doesn't need another Tony Robins. He's
doing a great job of that. We don't need we
don't need a tribute act. That's not that's not who
I am. And so it took me a long time
listening to my own life to realize, right, just write
about these stories and not having to hit people over
(10:56):
the head with this. You remember Jerry Springer the other
TV show Wow False. This was what the shows about
bait into the story. If I've done a good job,
you get what's going on, then I think for me,
I've found a better way to teach or say something
is to tell a story that really embodies that. That's
what my job for the book was. Like, each bit
of learning or anything I wanted to say was really like,
(11:17):
how did I get to know this? What's the story here?
Where I learned this? Rather than there's a lot of
books now with lots of theory and stuff like that.
That's not really me. You know, I'm not a doctor,
and so my thing is something else. It's like, well,
how do I share my wisdom? What have I learned?
And also, I'm fifty three this book, I really wanted
to leave something behind that if anything ever, I said
(11:37):
to me, I really get nervos about not finishing this book,
I said, if anything ever happened to me, I'd be
really upset. I didn't leave a kind of note about
what I've been lucky enough to learn from almost thirty
years hearing literally thousands of stories and conversations from people
in two sides of the world. I've learned a lot.
And what I think is my responsibility to just like
sprinkling acorns, to actually some of them they can take
(11:58):
and it might grow something in you. But I think
it's our responsibility sometimes to pass that on that might
be to help people. And so that's what I want
to do with the book. But I didn't. My thing
was like, no wu wu, no Ted talk, how do
you know this? Stop trying to pass yourself off as
being wiser than you actually are. So I wanted it
to feel very al so practical, you know, it's an
(12:18):
odd job that I do. And I remember in the
early one of the early chapters, my daughter said, this
is great if you're a freak like you. And what
do you mean? She goes, there's nothing relatable about this.
Now she goes, no, it's just most people couldn't do
what you do, so it's not relatable. And so she goes,
how does what you know help me? At twenty one,
(12:42):
then it maybe rego. I had to rewrite a lot
of the book actually and make it. I wanted to
be deeply practical and like, well, what do you get
from in the book? Does this getting more excited about
telling better stories? How you find stories? And what really
is a conversation? Why does this matter?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I loved the couch story in the book. That was
one of the moments where the tissue box came out,
and you know, it's really it's a story that shares
your vulnerability. And I found it interesting how you talk
about that. Our kind of natural inclination as humans is
to share stories where we've got the upper hand or
(13:19):
you know, we've done something really cool. And it makes
me think about, you know, just all the humble brags
on LinkedIn and things like that, But it's the stories
where we are vulnerable and where we've faced a fear
or faced a challenge that are the most powerful. And
I sort of wonder, like, what advice do you give
people who are still trying to find the stories that
(13:40):
paint them in a really positive light. But ultimately they're
not the ones that do the best job of connection.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
They're not, I think, because actually, inherently a great story
is you're risking yourself in it. And if you think
about the funniest stories ever told people, they won't be
view having an upper hand. Also, I don't believe most
of those stories life. It just doesn't work like that,
you know. And then I said, you know, just like
that's unlikely it went down like that. You know, life
(14:08):
is constantly a series of humiliations. And actually, when you
talk about that, you'll find it they're the best stories
because actually you're talking about vulnerability. I think vulnerability is
the currency of great storytelling. If there's no vulnerability in here,
there's no real connection in it. It's like it's missing
some core DNA in there. And so it took me
a long time to realize this. In the radio, A
(14:28):
lot of my stories when I first started in radio,
were me sort of leaning into I guess a smart
ass character that wasn't really me, And then bit by
bit the more I told stories were almost was like,
I feel really uncomfortable telling this story. Sometimes because you're
worried you can start crying, or sometimes you'll worry that
they're going to see some part of you try to
hide away and spoiler alert, everyone has that shadow that're
(14:51):
constantly trying to hide away. People don't want you to
be perfect. We are flawed, We are deeply human. When
you talk about that, that's how we can up with people.
Your best friends will be best friends, I'm guessing because
there's vulnerability built into the relationship. People don't want it
to be shiny. I think what's actually has really harmed
it is social media. It's synthetic connection. You're looking at
(15:14):
someone who's done a tenth take of a video that's
not normal. And with AI you're going to get more
and more slop as they call it. But also there's
human slop. There's a slop that we do every single day.
And actually that's why I've called it unscript the radical
act of being yourself. I do believe right now the
only way we're going to know what's real is doubling
down on what is uniquely human, and that's being messy.
(15:38):
I'm never trying to make my speaking on the radio perfect.
I'm just trying to make it more like me. So
I could have told that couch story, and trust me,
for weeks that I didn't tell that story because I
thought I'm gonna start bloody crying tell this couch story.
Of course I did, because actually it's actually it's about
a couch that we have for ten years. But really
it's a story of saying goodbye and letting go. Turns
(15:59):
out it's really hard. Otherwise people we letting go every
single day. And so actually, remember that story wasn't even
going to be in the book. But my wife said,
I haven't even the couch story, and I went, she goes, Chris,
you can't ask them to be vulnerable. You write a
book about vulnerability, and you don't want to do it yourself.
Put the couch story or that, Okay. So I was
sobbing as I was writing that story, and that's when
(16:21):
I realized, oh, this is the story is meant to share.
It explains what I'm talking about, and actually, like you said,
your favorite story is the couch one. It's the most
vulnerable one in there, because actually you don't have to
have kids to understand what that's like. And I think
sometimes the more you dial into the particulars of a story,
somehow becomes more universal. You will find yourself in that story.
(16:46):
Even if someone reading now might not be a dad
or a parent, I guarantee it would have some effect
on you. You will find yourself when someone knows almost
drills into the granule levels of this. Otherwise, we watch
all these different TV shows. I don't know what it's
signed to be an American soccer coach. We enjoyed Ted Lasso.
Not everyone likes soccer, but they really enjoyed that TV show.
(17:09):
That's a story about a man who's dealing with vulnerability,
being a fish out of water. I think our favorite books,
TV shows and movies are all about people overcoming tough
times and adversities, and that's vulnerability.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Coming up next, Christian shares the physical test he uses
to know if a story is worth telling. He also
shares why the best storytellers relive a story rather than
retell it, and Christian's case for risking yourself a little
bit more every single day. If you're looking for more
(17:45):
tips to improve the way you work can live. I
write a short weekly newsletter that contains tactics I've discovered
that have helped me personally. You can sign up for
that at Amantha dot com. That's Amantha dot com. You
write about this in unscript, But tell me what what's
(18:08):
your criteria for identifying what makes a good story? When
you're thinking about should I share this story on air?
Is it a good story? What are you thinking about there?
Speaker 1 (18:18):
To me, it's a felt experience in my body. It's
never like a strategic thing in my head. It's literally
there's energy in me that's it's a ping. It's like
oh my, And so I don't fully understand how to
tell the story. And then my job is to spend
a little bit of time and almost like walking around
it holding up to like go what is this about?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
What is it?
Speaker 1 (18:37):
And so I love doing that just like kind of
like examining it and understand what is this? Is it?
That way to do it. Sometimes when I'm telling a story,
as I'm telling it, as it's coming out of my
through me, it's formulating in front of me. And I've
seen other people doing this where they tell a story
and people are laughing and the story gets better because
we're a good audience and they access sort of improvisational
(19:01):
skills that people tell themselves they don't have, but you
do when you get into that mode and you remember,
oh my god, then oh my god, I just I
totally forgot. Then this woman in the background, how wig
fell off? And you know when someone's remembering, it's all
coming through them. That's the best thing in the world.
They're not just retelling a story, they're reliving it as well.
So for me, it's like I need to the story.
(19:23):
It needs to light me up in some way physically.
That's a somatic experience in my body. If it doesn't,
I won't tell the story because if it's not lighting
me up, how on earth is it going to light
the audience up. If it's not interesting to me, it
won't be to them. You know, that's exciting when someone
says something or I overhear a story. I could just
feel it in my body. Oh my god, I can't
(19:44):
wait to tell someone about this. And that's the joy
of stories.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
When you're off the air and socializing and you may
be underd in a party. Do these stories just come
to you naturally because you are so attuned to being
someone that has to tell a lot of stories every
day for a living, or do you prepare? Do you
go to back to your woods shed and go, what
are some things that have happened to me in the
(20:10):
last few weeks. What's your process there?
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Yeah, people would be quite surprised. So you know, obviously
I perform for a living. I guess really, you know,
doing what I do, it's a performance, you know, it's
a performance of authenticity, but it's a performance. I still
struggle in some social situations, big groups. I find really
hard work what I do on the radio, and like
when I just stand up as well, that's a context. Okay,
(20:32):
so the rumor's arranged a certain way, and so you
can find strength and comfort in that. Suddenly in a
social situation, everyone knows how to speak, it's easy. And
then in certain situations, suddenly you haven't said anythink in
a social situation with ten minutes, and you suddenly that
in a critic kicks in. You're not very funny, you're
quite boring today, and so suddenly that affects how you speak.
(20:56):
And so I've always found it fascinating. Is like, so,
so what's happening in that situation? What's the stories is
what I call it unscript it's a story. And then
for me, people then go, because of what I did
for living, it makes it worse. Okay, you're not are you? Okay?
You're very quiet today. Nothing's going to make someone shrink,
and of going you're quiet today, and like what am I?
Then you're like, you're really get your own head. They're
(21:17):
I was just saying, you're not that funny, you're that
funny funny guy. But you know, so they're like, you know,
come on. And so for me, I do have to
use what I talk about in the book. I have
to do some inner work sometimes to get that freed
up again. And so yeah, I think I'm like anybody
in certain situations, speaking becomes quite hard and that is
(21:38):
really about that's always about self worth and value. And
I didn't know that until I started coaching people, and
I thought they wanted tools and techniques and I have
got loads of those, but very quickly I realized those
are the easiest things to teach them. All of their
concerns about speaking and their fears and anxiety, all really like.
(22:00):
It all comes down to how you feel about yourself
in certain situations, and so it's like, oh, okay, so
now I know what people really need help with, and
then I could translate that back to radio. Yeah, speaking
as a flow process, I'm constantly dancing in and out
of flow. I did today for three hours. That's every day.
What I've got better at is being kind to myself
when I'm getting jammed up. You know, we are walking
(22:23):
talking antennas if your body, if you're jammed up inside,
we know on paper it might not what you're saying
is making perfect sense, but energetically our body is like,
there's something off about this. This personally that doesn't believe it,
or they're lying or something is wrong. And so if
you're if your antenor it's jammed up, we will experience it.
We all know it. So the more you pay attention
to what's happening in you and where you're speaking from
(22:46):
and how you're speaking from, then the connection gets a
lot easier. It just flows way better.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Do you remember the last time that you were in
a social situation where you felt that jammed up? Oh
my gosh, I haven't spoken. I probably should speak I
should probably be funny. Do you remember the last time.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Friday night out with my family, my two daughters and
my wife. Yeah, I suddenly was like, I haven't said
something for a couple of minutes. What is what's? And
you don't think what's wrong with you? It all becomes that,
you know. And so I was like, I've got this
book coming out about this stuff. What did I say
in that? And so I had to do you have
to actually take your own medicine? And so, yeah, it
was just Friday night. I was just like my wife
was on a roll. She was telling the story and
(23:22):
it was a great story. And I was like, do
I jump in the back here. I can't just jump
in the back here and go yeah, I've got a
funny story. That's just sad. And so I really had
to like, how do I want to be in this situation?
I think I was feeling a bit left out? So
that am I? Am? I really being left out? This
is my family. I love these people. It's not a performance.
And so I had to quickly and I guess with compassion,
(23:44):
you know, really sort of disarm and unscript myself in
that situation. I think I was having some script that
I need to be funny as well, there must have
something wrong with me. Everyone's probably thinking what's up with that?
So they're not thinking that at all. They're just enjoying
a story from their mum. And so also, I think
it's throughout the book hopefully made it very clear we
waste too much time for on a second, guess what's
(24:04):
going on someone else's head. They're not thinking about you
nearly as much as you are. They're trying to just
deal with their own shit, to be really honest, but
we put too much emphasis on them, and it's we're
stuck in what I call impress mode. And when we
pay more attention to how do I want to feel?
Am I excited about doing this speech? Or asking this question?
Do I really want to know the answer, then you
(24:26):
get more in sort of express mode. And that's the
joy of there's something coming through me that is seeking
expression and dining iso that tuning into that that makes
it a lot easier. The words kind of take care
of themselves.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
How do you on air? Because you are extracting stories
from your listeners, and it's so interesting reading your process
for that and just how how clearly how skilled you've
become doing that. Look, this is something that I think
about when I'm interviewing someone on how I work. It's like,
obviously being present with the person is so important, but
(25:01):
then there's that other part of your brain that is going, Okay,
you know, I need to throw in your case, do
an ad, you know, do an AD in the next
three minutes, or I need to do this, or you know,
you're kind of floating above that as well.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, part of me is in the moment, but I'm
also looking at the clock and I'm thinking this call
has gone on or this break is going on for
six minutes, and so I'm editing live. It's like real
time editing, and so you have to have like two
hard drives in your head. And that's just experience and
a learned thing. But also I'd equate it to driving
a car. Do you remember when you first learned a
(25:33):
Carrie I and you look at your mumb going how
are you this one asked, You've only got one hand
on the wheel when we start there, you know, tend
to do you had both hands on a wheel and
there was all these buttons. And then fast forward ten
years later, how many times you drive somewhere like woll
I don't remember driving Lasse half an hour. There's a
lot going on. Constant chaos and change is exactly the
(25:54):
same thing. It's just you go through that thing of
that's just a learned rep. It's like if I went
to watch a surgeon and go, I don't know how
it can be this relaxed. I bet if I saw
them on the first day or in the early couple
of surgeries, they weren't like that. And so it's building
up your reps. But you can treat speaking like this
as well, and so you can try to start to
(26:16):
have more conversations short form of conversations with strangers, you know.
Just see it like you're building up reps. And so
people think they have to like go from like where
they are into suddenly being Stephen Fry or Jerry Seinfur.
It's like, you don't need to do that. You could
just take a nutch, you know, five or ten percent,
you know, risk yourselves a little bit more. I think
(26:38):
we have to risk ourselves more with chuse safety online.
It's easier to you're not going to get rejected. You
can control what you're sharing. But actually we lose something
and that I think every day we need to risk
ourselves more because you don't get the joy in any
part of life without risking some part of yourself. And
that's actually where all the all the thing that you
(26:59):
love care about. I mean, when I started in radio,
I remember saying to my wife, us is working for
this tiny regional radio show, and I said, if I
can do this for the rest of my life, I'll
be so happy. And so twenty eight years alater on
the other side of the world, I'm in Australia now,
and so it's kind of like just reminding ourselves that
really we fear the risk. We're obsessed with knowing is
(27:22):
this going to work and knowing the answers, and all
we do when we get these answers is we just
move on to the next question. Our obsession with knowing
and knowing how it's going to go is constricting joy
and risk in our lives, and they are. You don't
get to have the life you want without it's going
to be risk. There has to be risk, There must
be We must risk ourselves. So a line in a poem.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
That was part one of my two part chat with
Christian O'Connell, if you haven't already hit follow or subscribe.
Make sure you do to be alerted when the next
half drops, where Christian and I trade some very personal
stories of which we've never shared publicly before. If you
like today's show, make sure you get follow on your
(28:06):
podcast app to be alerted when new episodes drop. How
I Work was recorded on the traditional land of the
Warrangery people, part of the Kulhan nation.
I think with all stories there's two levels. There's what's
happening and then what's really happening underneath it. And actually,
when you take the time to think about what's really
happening underneath this story, that's where the feelings are.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
That's the voice of Christian O'Connell. If you've had breakfast
radio on in Australia or the UK anytime in the
last twenty years, you have almost certainly heard it. Christian
is one of the most successful radiohearsts in the world,
with two number one shows on opposite sides of the planet,
and off air, he still catches himself mid story thinking
(00:35):
you're quite boring. Today, most of us tell stories on autopilot.
We recount what happened, the traffic, the flight, the fight
with our sister, and then we stop. We never ask
what the story is actually about, which is probably why
half the stories we tell get a polite nod and
nothing more. Christian has spent twenty eight years pulling stories
(00:58):
out of strangers on live radio, and he's put all
of it into a book called Unscript. I read it
in one sitting on a Saturday afternoon, and by the
end I had worked my way through a lot of tissues.
In part one of this two part conversation, Christian shares
the deceptively simple habit that means he never runs dry
(01:21):
on things to say, along with why he almost cut
one story that made him so while writing it about
selling a couch, and Christian also shares what actually makes
a story land, which turns out to be far simpler
and also a bit more physical than you'd think. And
by the way, if you happen to be in Melbourne,
(01:43):
then I would love for you to join me at
my Melbourne book launch of The Energy Game, which is
happening on July twenty nine at the malt House Theater.
There are still a handful of seats available and there
is a link to book in the show notes. It's
going to be a super fun night where not only
you learn a lot about your own energy, but you'll
(02:03):
come out with a plan to significantly boost your energy
in the next seven days. And there might also be
some song and dance. Welcome to How I Work, a
show about habits, rituals and strategies for optimizing your day.
(02:25):
I'm your host, Doctor Amantha Imber.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Christian.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yes, it's good to be back again.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Now it's greatly back. And also I must have say,
the seeds of this book I've written come from actually
the last chat I had with you after the pod interview.
I was sort of shared, oh, Len, I'm thinking about
maybe some coaching or mentoring, and you actually said you'd
be great, that you should do that. That validation meant
a lot to me, and that actually I did go
(02:57):
on and do that, and then that book is partly
through what it was like coaching people in connection and communication.
So thank you for doing that my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I do remember after I think it was our last
chat on how I work the week exchanged a few
audio messages and you were sharing some really loose thoughts
for the book, and I got to say, I mean,
I left you an audio message on the weekend and
I read unscript in one sitting. I read it on
Saturday afternoon. I do like a just in time approach
to preparing for interviews sitting inline. Yeah, yeah, well, the
(03:30):
fear of a deadline, but also things just stay in
my head for a few days, and then it just
feels easier to have a conversation as well, because I'm
so excited to talk about what's in the book. And
I loved it. It was so moving. I don't know
how many tissues I went through, but it was quite
a lot. And I'm glad that we've got a box
of tissues here today just in case, just in case,
(03:51):
I don't know where this conversation, Well, what.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Did you find? What moved you?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Then?
Speaker 1 (03:54):
What was the moving?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
It was the stories. Yeah, it was the stories. Every
one of the times that I was moved, it was
one of the stories. And that's actually where I want
to start, because you talk about the wood shed in
the book towards the end, actually tell me what is
the woodshed?
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Well, look at something I do because of the nature
of my job. So I do a radio show five
days a week, been doing that for twenty eight years,
and so I've got three hours of radio to do
every day. So I need to have somewhere where I
saw ideas. And so it literally is a file on
my notes that I call the woodshed. And I've trained
the team to do this and so as I notice
(04:33):
things during the day, that's really what my job is
to pay attention because people are always one of the
questions always say to me, other than what time to
get up in the morning, is how do you where
do you get all your ideas from? And actually I'm
constantly trying to be more present, and when any of
us do that, you'll notice more about the oddness, the
beauty and the absurdity of life. And so whenever a
(04:53):
little spark like that happens, I just type in a
word or phrase. It's not I need to know what
is the what could I turn this into? It's just
literally like a woodshed, You've just got stores the wood
somewhere to keep it dry and safe. And if you
don't store it somewhere, where are you going to store it?
And so I dogever you want to do this Because
sometimes you get nervous about a social function, I've got
(05:15):
nothing to talk about. But actually, if you're in banking
stuff for a week or two, you'll have a couple
of things and sometimes it's just like, ah, do you
think this is odd? I saw this the other day?
And so I think a lot of our nerves about
socially encounters not having enough to talk about is actually
you don't know how to find those stories and look
after them and actually collect them. And then sometimes even
(05:36):
when I'm going out socially, I'll go back through stuff,
and I imagine putting one or two things in my
back pocket, and then when I am in you know
where a conversation just falls flat, and you might be
talking to someone that's a bit boring and you think,
oh my god, I'm going to have to reignite this conversation.
You've got something that can do that. You go, you
get to get a bit of timber from your woodshed
and chuck it on the fire between you.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I love that advice in the book, actually, and I've
never thought about doing that because I am someone who
is naturally more introverted. I used to have more social
anxiety than I do now because I feel like a
lot of my job is just speaking to people and
being with people and having conversations. But I love the
(06:17):
idea of thinking about what are the things that have
happened to me, even just little anecdotes from the last
couple of weeks, because my mind is always blank when
I'm in the conversation if I haven't thought about that.
And I thought that was just such great practical advice.
I think for me, I normally just rely on my
curiosity and my question asking muscle, as opposed to thinking, oh,
(06:39):
what can I share about myself because I'm often at
a loss as to what can I share that anyone
would find interesting, which is obviously my voice.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Yeah, I know, and all of us have two voices.
There's the one when we're talking out loud and in
a critic, which is a lot of sounds like a bully.
And so actually one thing that can help in those things,
it's like, how are you going to find ideas? It's
like a lot of people have coased over the years,
people who said I don't have any funny stories, and
I say, there's no way. You've lived a life. You
(07:08):
just don't know how to find them and collect them.
You have got funny stories everybody, does, you know. I
talk about the book about the uber driver who said,
you know, well that nothing interesting happens to me. I went,
are you a full time overdrive? And he talks about
no part time? To this insurance company. I went, you
must get some really weird insurance claims, and he goes, oh, well,
the other week there was someone who was sat on
her toilet and the floor broke and she went through
(07:30):
the floor on a toilet into the downstairs apartment. I went,
you don't think that's interesting, and so I talked about
bizarre insurance claims you've made people have got all flaws
is giving way and we had a whole hour of
great stories. And so there are things that happened to us.
There are And actually the one nice bit of wisdom
isn't just about opening up and being more aware during
the day, and it's almost finding pockets. We can just
(07:52):
look around or that was a bit odd, or did
you what are that person just over here is and
write them downs. It makes it's a way of being
more present during your day. And most of us, me included,
we're sleep walking during the day. We're thinking about that shoppingness.
We haven't get something on that to do with this.
We're rarely in present time, in moment, and so when
you do become a bit more present during the day,
(08:14):
you might overhear something. And also sometimes it's like, what's
annoyed you today? If you're going to watch Jerry sciinfel
I do stand up, that's a man who's moaning about
being annoyed, but he does it with such charm and
energy everyone thinks it is joyce. It is you can
be really funny moaning about stuff. It's really great comedians
built careers out of this.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
What are those I guess emotional triggers or reactions that
you're looking for and how you're reacting to the world
around you that make you think, Ah, I think that's
a good story or a good anecdote.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I think with stories, I think it's the audience don't
care about the story as much as they care how
you feel about it. And so my job on the
radio every day when I'm about to tell a story
is to tune into that story. What is this really about?
So you could sell all this is there's a story
in the book about having to sell the couch that
our family had had for ten years. This is selling
(09:05):
a couch, but actually, go how do I feel about?
This is about grief because in ten years of enormous
change in my life, what should my daughters grow up
moving the other side of the world. That couch has
been a constant literal, physical support and emotional support. We've
had arguments on there, We've cried, we've hugged, we've laughed
at TV shows, watched movies. A couch, Actually think about
it is a big part of your life and a family,
(09:27):
and so giving it away, selling it was actually incredibly
emotional thing. But me knowing that and dialing into that
could tell that the story in a much I think
with all stories there's two levels. There's what's happening and
then what's really happening underneath it? And actually, when you
take the time to think about what's really happening underneath
this story, that's where all like the juice is, that's
all where the feelings are. How do I feel about
(09:49):
the story? What is this story really about? What's the
heart of it? That is a beautiful way to actually
slow down, because you can think about an episode of
your life, so it's something really bad happened, and so
you can actually slow down sometimes a bit later and
go back to that and almost excavate your life and go, actually,
what was what was happening here now? And you see
(10:10):
it differently, We see it with fresh eyes and maybe
a bit more of an open heart, and then you
can take a new story from something, and that can
be energizing and transforming in your life. But that really
is that's storytelling. It's the stories we tell ourselves about
who we are and who we think we are are
the biggest area for growth and also the most the
hardest things. You know, I'm trying to write that book
for five years. The amount of times I thought I've
(10:33):
got it, and then it was rubbish because it was
like I was either trying to do a very boring
ted talk. I thought I needed to be Tony Robbins
and that the world doesn't need another Tony Robins. He's
doing a great job of that. We don't need we
don't need a tribute act. That's not that's not who
I am. And so it took me a long time
listening to my own life to realize, right, just write
about these stories and not having to hit people over
(10:56):
the head with this. You remember Jerry Springer the other
TV show Wow False. This was what the shows about
bait into the story. If I've done a good job,
you get what's going on, then I think for me,
I've found a better way to teach or say something
is to tell a story that really embodies that. That's
what my job for the book was. Like, each bit
of learning or anything I wanted to say was really like,
(11:17):
how did I get to know this? What's the story here?
Where I learned this? Rather than there's a lot of
books now with lots of theory and stuff like that.
That's not really me. You know, I'm not a doctor,
and so my thing is something else. It's like, well,
how do I share my wisdom? What have I learned?
And also, I'm fifty three this book, I really wanted
to leave something behind that if anything ever, I said
(11:37):
to me, I really get nervos about not finishing this book,
I said, if anything ever happened to me, I'd be
really upset. I didn't leave a kind of note about
what I've been lucky enough to learn from almost thirty
years hearing literally thousands of stories and conversations from people
in two sides of the world. I've learned a lot.
And what I think is my responsibility to just like
sprinkling acorns, to actually some of them they can take
(11:58):
and it might grow something in you. But I think
it's our responsibility sometimes to pass that on that might
be to help people. And so that's what I want
to do with the book. But I didn't. My thing
was like, no wu wu, no Ted talk, how do
you know this? Stop trying to pass yourself off as
being wiser than you actually are. So I wanted it
to feel very al so practical, you know, it's an
(12:18):
odd job that I do. And I remember in the
early one of the early chapters, my daughter said, this
is great if you're a freak like you. And what
do you mean? She goes, there's nothing relatable about this.
Now she goes, no, it's just most people couldn't do
what you do, so it's not relatable. And so she goes,
how does what you know help me? At twenty one,
(12:42):
then it maybe rego. I had to rewrite a lot
of the book actually and make it. I wanted to
be deeply practical and like, well, what do you get
from in the book? Does this getting more excited about
telling better stories? How you find stories? And what really
is a conversation? Why does this matter?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I loved the couch story in the book. That was
one of the moments where the tissue box came out,
and you know, it's really it's a story that shares
your vulnerability. And I found it interesting how you talk
about that. Our kind of natural inclination as humans is
to share stories where we've got the upper hand or
(13:19):
you know, we've done something really cool. And it makes
me think about, you know, just all the humble brags
on LinkedIn and things like that, But it's the stories
where we are vulnerable and where we've faced a fear
or faced a challenge that are the most powerful. And
I sort of wonder, like, what advice do you give
people who are still trying to find the stories that
(13:40):
paint them in a really positive light. But ultimately they're
not the ones that do the best job of connection.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
They're not, I think, because actually, inherently a great story
is you're risking yourself in it. And if you think
about the funniest stories ever told people, they won't be
view having an upper hand. Also, I don't believe most
of those stories life. It just doesn't work like that,
you know. And then I said, you know, just like
that's unlikely it went down like that. You know, life
(14:08):
is constantly a series of humiliations. And actually, when you
talk about that, you'll find it they're the best stories
because actually you're talking about vulnerability. I think vulnerability is
the currency of great storytelling. If there's no vulnerability in here,
there's no real connection in it. It's like it's missing
some core DNA in there. And so it took me
a long time to realize this. In the radio, A
(14:28):
lot of my stories when I first started in radio,
were me sort of leaning into I guess a smart
ass character that wasn't really me, And then bit by
bit the more I told stories were almost was like,
I feel really uncomfortable telling this story. Sometimes because you're
worried you can start crying, or sometimes you'll worry that
they're going to see some part of you try to
hide away and spoiler alert, everyone has that shadow that're
(14:51):
constantly trying to hide away. People don't want you to
be perfect. We are flawed, We are deeply human. When
you talk about that, that's how we can up with people.
Your best friends will be best friends, I'm guessing because
there's vulnerability built into the relationship. People don't want it
to be shiny. I think what's actually has really harmed
it is social media. It's synthetic connection. You're looking at
(15:14):
someone who's done a tenth take of a video that's
not normal. And with AI you're going to get more
and more slop as they call it. But also there's
human slop. There's a slop that we do every single day.
And actually that's why I've called it unscript the radical
act of being yourself. I do believe right now the
only way we're going to know what's real is doubling
down on what is uniquely human, and that's being messy.
(15:38):
I'm never trying to make my speaking on the radio perfect.
I'm just trying to make it more like me. So
I could have told that couch story, and trust me,
for weeks that I didn't tell that story because I
thought I'm gonna start bloody crying tell this couch story.
Of course I did, because actually it's actually it's about
a couch that we have for ten years. But really
it's a story of saying goodbye and letting go. Turns
(15:59):
out it's really hard. Otherwise people we letting go every
single day. And so actually, remember that story wasn't even
going to be in the book. But my wife said,
I haven't even the couch story, and I went, she goes, Chris,
you can't ask them to be vulnerable. You write a
book about vulnerability, and you don't want to do it yourself.
Put the couch story or that, Okay. So I was
sobbing as I was writing that story, and that's when
(16:21):
I realized, oh, this is the story is meant to share.
It explains what I'm talking about, and actually, like you said,
your favorite story is the couch one. It's the most
vulnerable one in there, because actually you don't have to
have kids to understand what that's like. And I think
sometimes the more you dial into the particulars of a story,
somehow becomes more universal. You will find yourself in that story.
(16:46):
Even if someone reading now might not be a dad
or a parent, I guarantee it would have some effect
on you. You will find yourself when someone knows almost
drills into the granule levels of this. Otherwise, we watch
all these different TV shows. I don't know what it's
signed to be an American soccer coach. We enjoyed Ted Lasso.
Not everyone likes soccer, but they really enjoyed that TV show.
(17:09):
That's a story about a man who's dealing with vulnerability,
being a fish out of water. I think our favorite books,
TV shows and movies are all about people overcoming tough
times and adversities, and that's vulnerability.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Coming up next, Christian shares the physical test he uses
to know if a story is worth telling. He also
shares why the best storytellers relive a story rather than
retell it, and Christian's case for risking yourself a little
bit more every single day. If you're looking for more
(17:45):
tips to improve the way you work can live. I
write a short weekly newsletter that contains tactics I've discovered
that have helped me personally. You can sign up for
that at Amantha dot com. That's Amantha dot com. You
write about this in unscript, But tell me what what's
(18:08):
your criteria for identifying what makes a good story? When
you're thinking about should I share this story on air?
Is it a good story? What are you thinking about there?
Speaker 1 (18:18):
To me, it's a felt experience in my body. It's
never like a strategic thing in my head. It's literally
there's energy in me that's it's a ping. It's like
oh my, And so I don't fully understand how to
tell the story. And then my job is to spend
a little bit of time and almost like walking around
it holding up to like go what is this about?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
What is it?
Speaker 1 (18:37):
And so I love doing that just like kind of
like examining it and understand what is this? Is it?
That way to do it. Sometimes when I'm telling a story,
as I'm telling it, as it's coming out of my
through me, it's formulating in front of me. And I've
seen other people doing this where they tell a story
and people are laughing and the story gets better because
we're a good audience and they access sort of improvisational
(19:01):
skills that people tell themselves they don't have, but you
do when you get into that mode and you remember,
oh my god, then oh my god, I just I
totally forgot. Then this woman in the background, how wig
fell off? And you know when someone's remembering, it's all
coming through them. That's the best thing in the world.
They're not just retelling a story, they're reliving it as well.
So for me, it's like I need to the story.
(19:23):
It needs to light me up in some way physically.
That's a somatic experience in my body. If it doesn't,
I won't tell the story because if it's not lighting
me up, how on earth is it going to light
the audience up. If it's not interesting to me, it
won't be to them. You know, that's exciting when someone
says something or I overhear a story. I could just
feel it in my body. Oh my god, I can't
(19:44):
wait to tell someone about this. And that's the joy
of stories.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
When you're off the air and socializing and you may
be underd in a party. Do these stories just come
to you naturally because you are so attuned to being
someone that has to tell a lot of stories every
day for a living, or do you prepare? Do you
go to back to your woods shed and go, what
are some things that have happened to me in the
(20:10):
last few weeks. What's your process there?
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Yeah, people would be quite surprised. So you know, obviously
I perform for a living. I guess really, you know,
doing what I do, it's a performance, you know, it's
a performance of authenticity, but it's a performance. I still
struggle in some social situations, big groups. I find really
hard work what I do on the radio, and like
when I just stand up as well, that's a context. Okay,
(20:32):
so the rumor's arranged a certain way, and so you
can find strength and comfort in that. Suddenly in a
social situation, everyone knows how to speak, it's easy. And
then in certain situations, suddenly you haven't said anythink in
a social situation with ten minutes, and you suddenly that
in a critic kicks in. You're not very funny, you're
quite boring today, and so suddenly that affects how you speak.
(20:56):
And so I've always found it fascinating. Is like, so,
so what's happening in that situation? What's the stories is
what I call it unscript it's a story. And then
for me, people then go, because of what I did
for living, it makes it worse. Okay, you're not are you? Okay?
You're very quiet today. Nothing's going to make someone shrink,
and of going you're quiet today, and like what am I?
Then you're like, you're really get your own head. They're
(21:17):
I was just saying, you're not that funny, you're that
funny funny guy. But you know, so they're like, you know,
come on. And so for me, I do have to
use what I talk about in the book. I have
to do some inner work sometimes to get that freed
up again. And so yeah, I think I'm like anybody
in certain situations, speaking becomes quite hard and that is
(21:38):
really about that's always about self worth and value. And
I didn't know that until I started coaching people, and
I thought they wanted tools and techniques and I have
got loads of those, but very quickly I realized those
are the easiest things to teach them. All of their
concerns about speaking and their fears and anxiety, all really like.
(22:00):
It all comes down to how you feel about yourself
in certain situations, and so it's like, oh, okay, so
now I know what people really need help with, and
then I could translate that back to radio. Yeah, speaking
as a flow process, I'm constantly dancing in and out
of flow. I did today for three hours. That's every day.
What I've got better at is being kind to myself
when I'm getting jammed up. You know, we are walking
(22:23):
talking antennas if your body, if you're jammed up inside,
we know on paper it might not what you're saying
is making perfect sense, but energetically our body is like,
there's something off about this. This personally that doesn't believe it,
or they're lying or something is wrong. And so if
you're if your antenor it's jammed up, we will experience it.
We all know it. So the more you pay attention
to what's happening in you and where you're speaking from
(22:46):
and how you're speaking from, then the connection gets a
lot easier. It just flows way better.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Do you remember the last time that you were in
a social situation where you felt that jammed up? Oh
my gosh, I haven't spoken. I probably should speak I
should probably be funny. Do you remember the last time.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Friday night out with my family, my two daughters and
my wife. Yeah, I suddenly was like, I haven't said
something for a couple of minutes. What is what's? And
you don't think what's wrong with you? It all becomes that,
you know. And so I was like, I've got this
book coming out about this stuff. What did I say
in that? And so I had to do you have
to actually take your own medicine? And so, yeah, it
was just Friday night. I was just like my wife
was on a roll. She was telling the story and
(23:22):
it was a great story. And I was like, do
I jump in the back here. I can't just jump
in the back here and go yeah, I've got a
funny story. That's just sad. And so I really had
to like, how do I want to be in this situation?
I think I was feeling a bit left out? So
that am I? Am? I really being left out? This
is my family. I love these people. It's not a performance.
And so I had to quickly and I guess with compassion,
(23:44):
you know, really sort of disarm and unscript myself in
that situation. I think I was having some script that
I need to be funny as well, there must have
something wrong with me. Everyone's probably thinking what's up with that?
So they're not thinking that at all. They're just enjoying
a story from their mum. And so also, I think
it's throughout the book hopefully made it very clear we
waste too much time for on a second, guess what's
(24:04):
going on someone else's head. They're not thinking about you
nearly as much as you are. They're trying to just
deal with their own shit, to be really honest, but
we put too much emphasis on them, and it's we're
stuck in what I call impress mode. And when we
pay more attention to how do I want to feel?
Am I excited about doing this speech? Or asking this question?
Do I really want to know the answer, then you
(24:26):
get more in sort of express mode. And that's the
joy of there's something coming through me that is seeking
expression and dining iso that tuning into that that makes
it a lot easier. The words kind of take care
of themselves.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
How do you on air? Because you are extracting stories
from your listeners, and it's so interesting reading your process
for that and just how how clearly how skilled you've
become doing that. Look, this is something that I think
about when I'm interviewing someone on how I work. It's like,
obviously being present with the person is so important, but
(25:01):
then there's that other part of your brain that is going, Okay,
you know, I need to throw in your case, do
an ad, you know, do an AD in the next
three minutes, or I need to do this, or you know,
you're kind of floating above that as well.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, part of me is in the moment, but I'm
also looking at the clock and I'm thinking this call
has gone on or this break is going on for
six minutes, and so I'm editing live. It's like real
time editing, and so you have to have like two
hard drives in your head. And that's just experience and
a learned thing. But also I'd equate it to driving
a car. Do you remember when you first learned a
(25:33):
Carrie I and you look at your mumb going how
are you this one asked, You've only got one hand
on the wheel when we start there, you know, tend
to do you had both hands on a wheel and
there was all these buttons. And then fast forward ten
years later, how many times you drive somewhere like woll
I don't remember driving Lasse half an hour. There's a
lot going on. Constant chaos and change is exactly the
(25:54):
same thing. It's just you go through that thing of
that's just a learned rep. It's like if I went
to watch a surgeon and go, I don't know how
it can be this relaxed. I bet if I saw
them on the first day or in the early couple
of surgeries, they weren't like that. And so it's building
up your reps. But you can treat speaking like this
as well, and so you can try to start to
(26:16):
have more conversations short form of conversations with strangers, you know.
Just see it like you're building up reps. And so
people think they have to like go from like where
they are into suddenly being Stephen Fry or Jerry Seinfur.
It's like, you don't need to do that. You could
just take a nutch, you know, five or ten percent,
you know, risk yourselves a little bit more. I think
(26:38):
we have to risk ourselves more with chuse safety online.
It's easier to you're not going to get rejected. You
can control what you're sharing. But actually we lose something
and that I think every day we need to risk
ourselves more because you don't get the joy in any
part of life without risking some part of yourself. And
that's actually where all the all the thing that you
(26:59):
love care about. I mean, when I started in radio,
I remember saying to my wife, us is working for
this tiny regional radio show, and I said, if I
can do this for the rest of my life, I'll
be so happy. And so twenty eight years alater on
the other side of the world, I'm in Australia now,
and so it's kind of like just reminding ourselves that
really we fear the risk. We're obsessed with knowing is
(27:22):
this going to work and knowing the answers, and all
we do when we get these answers is we just
move on to the next question. Our obsession with knowing
and knowing how it's going to go is constricting joy
and risk in our lives, and they are. You don't
get to have the life you want without it's going
to be risk. There has to be risk, There must
be We must risk ourselves. So a line in a poem.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
That was part one of my two part chat with
Christian O'Connell, if you haven't already hit follow or subscribe.
Make sure you do to be alerted when the next
half drops, where Christian and I trade some very personal
stories of which we've never shared publicly before. If you
like today's show, make sure you get follow on your
(28:06):
podcast app to be alerted when new episodes drop. How
I Work was recorded on the traditional land of the
Warrangery people, part of the Kulhan nation.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!