November 27, 2025 • 53 mins
Wicked: For Good has truly “changed us for the better”… and it’s time for our brutally honest review.
We’re diving deep into the character arcs that kept us on the edge of our seats, the performances that stole the show, and the moments that… well, didn’t quite defy gravity the way we hoped.
From clever callbacks to the OG musical to the scene that left Laura with mascara streaked down her face (you know the one), nothing is off the table. It’s the movie we’ve been waiting for all year — counting down the days, watching every trailer, and clinging to every snippet in the press— so trust us, you don’t want to miss this one.
WANT MORE?
Listen to our Brutally Honest Review of Wicked: Part One on Spotify or Apple.
Plus, check out our special Watch Party episode deep diving into all things Wicked: For Good on Apple or Spotify.
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CREDITS
Hosts: Laura Brodnik and Em Vernem
Executive Producer: Monisha Iswaran
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to Amma mea.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Podcast from Mamma Mia. Welcome to the Spill, your daily
pop culture fix. I'm Laura Prodnick and I'm am Vernon
and I can't believe I'm about to say this. I
have waited a year and twenty one years before that
(00:30):
to say these words. But this is our brutally honest
review of Wicked for Good.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
For Good, and now you went to harmonize good.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
You put the lyrics to a different song. But that's okay.
I don't think anyone on this.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
For good. It's Cynthia Josh Clut, one of our video producers,
Josh Clut.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
We're in a soundproof studio and Emily's just permeated the
soundproof walls. The story double glass door.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Again.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Cynthia would be so proud is the good.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
It's the work of read.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
You can weave that wand all you want, but you
have no real power.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I'm a public figure.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Now people expect me to fly. Be encouraging.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Because it helps, and it's flying to Disco. I'm lo
have to see the Wizard.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
So Wicked for Good has now been in cinemas for
over a week. We were lucky enough to see it early,
so we've really been permeating our thoughts. And you know
what's interesting that I was thinking before we came in
here is that we attended the premiere together and we
sat in the same row, but we had our producer
and video producer between us, and we actually haven't discussed
(02:06):
this movie. I have no idea we have not purposely.
Obviously you didn't think about this, but I was like,
we're going to save all of our thoughts for this room.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
So I don't know whether you I've been avoiding you
like the plague, Oh my god, like you're a.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Green skinned girl in the world of Oz, I know
that story. Initial thoughts, Okay, firstly, yeah, the premiere, Yeah,
love the party.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Wow, this doesn't bode well for the rest of the movie.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Are you serious? Imagine if we just cut the episode here.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
In the party, love the food. Look the movie for me,
initial thoughts was like not better, not worse than the
first one. It just felt like, obviously it is an
extended version of the first one, and they filmed them
back to back, but it just felt like I was
watching the first movie again in terms of like theatrics,
(02:56):
like acting, cinematography. So I feel like with that because
when we did our Bridley Honest review for the first one,
which if you haven't listened to, your listened to that.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I absolutely listened to. It was the best moment of
my life.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I show nights for you because we have a lot
of episodes between these two, but I remember my initial
thoughts for the first one was like, oh my god,
there's a cinema like the cinematography, but because I already
had that wow factor, that wasn't my I didn't get
a secondary one for this because I obviously expected it.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
The first movie, Wicked, which came out over a year ago,
as we said, was very much like I guess, leading
people into that world for the first time. So it
has more spectacle, but Wicked for Good has more heart
and like it asked more of you, and we'll get
into this as we talk at the ending.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
It asked more of you as a viewer, but the
payoff is better.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
It's so sad.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, well, did you see my face? I was just
talk at the premiere, but did you see my face?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Okay, so obviously I sobbed through the original Wicked and
you and I were sitting side by side with Cynthia
and Ariana. Of course you play Alphabet and Glinda in
the cinema with us.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, and it wasn't even a cinema, it was like
a theater.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah. And that was a heightened experience and just not
overwhelming of seeing my very favorite musical on a movie screen.
I think hit me so hard that I was sobbing
so much that at one stage you leaned over to
me and said, you are making all the chairs in
this row shape.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah. There was like a lady next to us who
was wearing a witch's hat, and I was like wobble.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Just because my sobs were brickachet.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
So this that's the fault of the theater.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
That is the fault of the theater.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Now this time we were in a proper cinema.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, this time we had we had reclining seat. It's
had a little drink.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Train, so when you were sobbing, I couldn't feel it. No,
I was on the other.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Side of the Oh boy, could you see it if
you saw it this time.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
I feel like this movie, in particular, compared to the
first movie, everyone had that moment.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Yeah. Well, I just I didn't expect it to hit
me that hard.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I started crying in the first when Glinda's up on
the podium when she's singing about love. It won't thrill
you the way you think it will those moments. And
when she saw at Fiera, I started sobbing that and
I didn't expect it to hit me so hard the
second time, but it just packs a bigger emotional punch,
to the point where I just had like black tears
from my mascara just running down my tire face and
(05:07):
no girl saw it was It was not good.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
So made it to the after party though, Yeah, looking.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Crazy, but that's okay. That's what Wicked does to people.
So I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Everyone's across the law of Wicked. But the original Broadway
show came out in two thousand and three, and it's
a reimagining of the book by Gregory Maguire called Wicked
The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West,
which is of course based on the novel The Wonderful
Wizard of Oz, which of course went on to be
The Wizard of Oz.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
And those books are hectic.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Those books.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
It's so wild. When everyone says to me, oh my god,
I love Wicked. I can't wait to go read the books,
and I'm like, the.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Books, you're getting a different story, girl.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
You are getting the wildest story.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Can I just say I really liked the Wicked I
started reading them.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Did you must try?
Speaker 1 (05:52):
I warned you. Yeah, it was too scary.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
They're so dense, they're much more politically minded. Also, Elfa
brang Glinda not friends friends for a tiny moment, but.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah, the music really ran with that.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
The music one take that one half a page where
they're like should we be friends and they're like nah.
The musical really takes that one page, which I guess
is like the whole magic of the story, and reimagined
it in this tale. I remember when I was reading
one of the later books in the Wicked series and
Alphabet's son goes to Glinda like in peril and needs
her help and she's like no. And there's also a
(06:25):
lot of rape and war and pillaging and whatnot, but
not in this beautiful musical that we got to see.
And so there was a lot of contention when director
John m. Chwo decided that he wanted to obviously like
adapt the musicals into a movie and slicing it right
down the middle. Would you think of that now? That
you've seen it.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I knew because I watched the musical twice before I
saw the movie, so I knew what to expect in
this uff because obviously the second movie it follows the
same pattern of the musical where it happens after the intermission,
and from watching the musical, you know that the scenes
that take place after the intermission are super sad and depressing,
(07:04):
and that's just theater. So I feel like in theater
you kind of expect anything, And it's so different to
cinema because in cinema, especially when you're doing a retelling
of something that's like so big and so wonderful, that's
for the masses, you always expect a happy ending, and
you expect to feel good and you expect to have fun,
and all of that just happens in the first half. Yeah,
(07:26):
and the second half is just like, oh my god.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, that's the thing. As the biggest Wicked fan in
the world, even I would say that the re entry
into this world after a year long break is slightly
shaky in those first moments, like it does feel like
they've sort of just dropped you back in OZ and
it does take a minute to send to yourself.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I think you had to watch the first film again
really just before getting back into this.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Oh yeah, if you're not across.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah, and this is like someone who's watched the musical
and seen the movie a few times. I was a
bit like, wait, where are we? Like what's the timeline?
Like what happens?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Yeah, I guess that's a question a lot of people have.
And here's the thing I guess is like, it's interesting that,
like Wicked, the first movie does almost stand alone as
its owner. I was just gonna say that, although you
would be crazy and the soulless human being if you
saw the first one and didn't see the second one, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Like, definitely see the second one. But I feel like
for rewatches, I can't actually see myself seeing both of them.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Really because but the best songs are in the second half.
But I'm depressed as but the most beautiful moments are.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
In the second movie, too sad for me.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Okay, we're gonna get this as we go on.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I actually do believe that the best moments are in
the second half. Really yeah, Okay, so yeah, I do
think that this movie feels like an extended ending, But
I also think that's kind of okay, because it's it's
made for people who have seen the first movie. So
if you wander into that cinema without seeing the first movie,
that's on you. If you're wandering without.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
You won't understand this single. Imagine that's something my dad
would do, for sure.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
How someone stopping before he wanders in.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
And he'll be like and then he was a Scarecrow's like,
oh my god, Dad was hardly Dorothy.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah, that is not the Wizard of Dad.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
So our first scene showing Alphaba is to show that
she's now hidden in the woods. She's trying to show
people who the Wizard really is, and she's doing that
by almost like attacking the people who are making the
yellow brick road.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
And then we see that deserved yeah exactly, as we
know that road does not always lead people to what
it needs to go exactly, So that's on them. And
then we find Glinda is very much become the puppet
of Madame Morrible and the Wizard of kind of being
their anti Alphaba, and she's.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Loving it, and she's well, I think she's she is conflicted.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
She's loving it because, as we know from her extended
backstory that we get in this movie.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
It is all she's ever wanted.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah, the Munchkins are like that evil witch deserves to die,
and she's like, wait a minute, I can say that.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah, you can't say exactly. That's my friend won't acknowledge publicly.
And we also see her surprise Pharaoh on stage with
news of their engagement.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Honestly, I think that's what we need to be doing there. Yeah,
enough of their situation waiting for an going on a
million dates before you confirm a relationship. Get him on
stage and tell him you're already engaged.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Tell him you know what.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
They're surprised.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
They're simple creatures.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
At the end of the day, Glinda is a girl.
She made that happen.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
She started marrying at first sight.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I love Fierro's like slow Burn, how he falls in
love with Alphabet throughout both movies, and how.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
To say that the gun that he holds.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
What are you gonna say of Ben's gun?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
I'm not gonna I just don't know how much Fierro
slander I'm gonna take on this pod.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
So I thought it was like a short walking stick
because it looks insane.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
It's a musket, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I do that? What it is.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Yeah, I don't know what a musket is, but that
sounds no follow up questions, but I was like, surely
no bullets are coming out of that.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Well I don't think that.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
I don't even like you.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Didn't even have like a trigger on it.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
The world of Oz is the place where the guards
are like heavily armed in that way people fight with
like when they fight at the end, they're literally all
fighting with their hands and magic. It's not that kind
of show where gunfire comes out, thank god. So you
see Fear, he's become captain of the Guard. He's got
a musket. He's looking for Alpha ba He's riding his
horse valiantly out of Oz. Do you know that that
horse is the Sreme horse. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Yeah, they've painted in blue for this.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Well they see g Idim.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
I don't think they no, that's his horse from Bridgerton.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I think you told me this on the first the
most important the movie.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
You're shocked a second it the horse is like this
guy again.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Well, if you look at the photos of Jonathan Bailey
and his horse, So the horse's name is Jack. He's
got a very extensive resume. He used him in Bridgeton
and just felt a really affinity with him, and he
felt that out of everyone that he worked with on Bridgeton,
I don't know what this says about the rest of
the cast. He was the most calming presence, okay, and
the most steadfast And so they brought the horse to
the set to continue filming with him, and all the
(11:53):
photos are just Jonathan Bailey hugging Jack, kissing him, wrapping
his arms around.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Him, and Jack Jackie the name of the horse.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, Jack's same, the horse and Jack looking so uninterested
in the whole situation.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
So it's a one sided friendship.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
But it's nice to know that Jonathan Bailey could demand
one co star to work with in this project and
he picks the horse.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Yeah. I want to see the horse and everything he's
in there.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I think that's going to happen. Jonathan Bailey goes nowhere
without this horse, a man alive and it's just to
be that horse. Imagine being cradled by Jonathan Bailey and
just being like no thanks, not like between the sighs
where the horse is no.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
But in the photos he's coupling his face.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
That's time.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
It's quite cute and I wouldn't like to be dyed
for a job. But I guess the horse doesn't have
an opinion.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Yeah, maybe they'll be an expose one day. Okay, so
this is going off.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
We spend so much time talking about the horse.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I just feel like it's important in thematic universe. So
now we're getting kind of into like the stakes of
where everyone is, and it's hugely up to the wedding,
which works almost like as a coronation in the eyes
of Madame Morrible and the Wizard of crowning Glinda as
she's nowhere now since she's changed her name on a
whim as kind of the ruler of these people and
(13:05):
trying to draw Alphabeurian. So we've got that storyline happening
on one side, But then we have our second storyline
happening over in munchkin Land with Nasa Rose and bok
O god Buck. And did you like I thought box
ark In this was great. I mean, obviously I know
it was gonna happen, but I never know how it's
going to play out his arc.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
He was just angry the whole time.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
No, no, no, But he goes from being like it
is kind of interesting.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
A munchkin that's angry to a tin man who's angry.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
No, Emily, it's much more involved than that.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Okay, so he's okay, first he's a fuck boy because he.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Was like, oh, don't maybe be a box defender, but
I'm gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
He was like, hey, Nessa, so now that, like you're said, Oled,
I'm gonna go and tell the love of my life
that I love her before she marries someone you love,
who you love, we can't help, but don't tell her
that just escape she was eak out ghost her.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
So what we learn about this and then and then
he betrays.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
All the Munchkins. No one can travel now because a
box stupid decision.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Okay, backstracking a few seconds and gliding over a few
accusations that were just made. Then is that we come
back to Nessa Rose, who is now the governor of
Munchkin Land since the death of her father. Everyone's saying
he died from shame from what Alphabet did and also
good riddance because that man is actually the center of
a lot of issues in this story.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Did he die again of shame?
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Oh that's a real thing that we all think, that's
what they say in the movie.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Technically we all die from shame.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, eventually you just like can't be here anymore. And
so we know that Nessa Rose has been made the
governor of munchkin Land. And what's interesting is that so
much of the first movie was seeing her kind of
being in this world that has shown to her, and
her getting a taste of this life she wanted and
becoming very centered on that, which is interesting because because
the movie's been cut in half and each movie is
(14:47):
the length of the original stage show, what they were
able to do is broaden Outnessa Rose's storyline a little bit,
which I found quite interesting, and give her a few
more scenes at a bit more context, which I think
is a great use of Marissa Body, the actress who
plays her. This is her first acting role, her first
professional acting role, and when you think of that as
you're watching her, she knocked it out the park. She's
(15:07):
also the first actress who was actually in a wheelchair
to play that role.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah, is that crazy?
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I mean, I know, I know how theater works in entertainment,
so it's actually not that crazy, Like it's not a
very welcoming space, but.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
It actually is crazy though, because if you've known Wicked,
there's been so many stage productions around the.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
World twenty years and I'm not across hundreds of stages
on different in different countries.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
How does it take for it to become a feature
film for the first time, to have her as Yeah,
I found that so so wild that I've never had
this before. But very happy with Marissa. She's amazing. She
killed her role and I think the anger that she embodies.
I think she has like the best character arc actually,
because you see her going from being Nessa to becoming
(15:49):
the wicked Witch of the East, and you see that
happen so quickly, but her emotions are so gradual. Yeah,
Like you get tastes of it in the first movie
when she sees like Boch liking Linda, and you see
like the tiny hints of rage she has that is
straight away calm down when he is shures her that
he likes her. And then in the second movie you
know that she has that like fiery ability, so you're
(16:12):
just like waiting for it to come out. Yeah, and
I think she does it so so well.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah. It's like when you're first introduced to her, she
is almost seen as this like very fragile, childlike being
who people even Alphabet to extend everyone sort of like
coddling her and caring for her, and I like that
in the second movie, she is just like a flawed character.
She's just a flawed human being who all of her
motivations are come from a selfish place. But all the
characters in the show do because they're human. That's what
(16:37):
makes Wick it's such a good show. But it's interesting
that her gripe and her issue with Alphaba is nothing
to do with her choosing to go against the Wizard,
and it's nothing to choose around how she appears publicly,
and she's probably the only person in this world who's
against Alphabet who one truly doesn't believe she's evil as
other people do who have this fearfulness of her. And
(17:00):
she also isn't angry at her for not telling the
lines the Wizard. She's angry at her feeling like she
has been left in this position and by herself. And
she got a glimpse of this world that she could
have been part of when they went to She's University,
and now she's been relegated back to being locked in
munchkin Land and her resent for alphab but comes from that.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yeah, Oh, I didn't like that scene when they were fighting.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
I know, but that is very much the crux of
that I can't.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Catch a break with anyone. Yeah, she's just probably flying
around saving some animals, getting verbally abused by her sister.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
This is to be getting received, so love of.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Her life's chasing her down. Her best friend doesn't want
to talk to her.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
I know she's in a rough spot, That's what I think.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
And then we get a little bit more also of
box storyline where if we find out come on now.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Okay, I actually think even Slater's.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Great in this for all. You know what he's better in,
don't say SpongeBob gen B.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Okay, well that's why you guys, if you haven't watched
gen B, that's where I'm watching it.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Well yeah, well exact, we're both even Slater fangirls now
for different reasons. But that kind of note where she
says to him, and this is why it's good to
get a bit more time with these characters that we
don't get in the stage show. Is is where she
talks about him being the only one to come and
visit her when her father died and she was left alone,
and his reward from that is being enslaved by her
(18:17):
because he's the only one who's ever shown her affection.
Like their storyline before the whole transformation is so beautifully tragic.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
He just annoys me.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Why because he's short? No annoys me about people too.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
He was like, why A, you're not pretty sure.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
And you annoy me? Like why she's so small?
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Okay? He's like, look at me. I'm bock, Glinda because
I'm talking about movie on Glinda, I love you. Glinda's like,
I don't love you. I love Fierro. Box's like, oh no,
I'm sad. Who else can I love? Oh? Look at
that girl over there? Hey, Nessa want to dance at me? Sure,
bock and that's all let's dance. Okay. I guess I'll
just follow you to whatever crew you'll want because I
(18:56):
have no aspirations whatsoever. So now I'm Nessa's right hand man.
Blah blah blah. Oh my god, the love of my life, Glinda,
who's never given me time of day, is getting married
to the love of her life. Yeah, I must go
stop it, even though she has no idea who I am. Sorry, Nessa,
I know that I said, I stay with you forever.
But I'm actually leaving, see ya. And then he gets
to the train station and not only does he get banned,
(19:19):
but he's banned all of the Munchkins. Everyone's like, Buck,
none of us can go to Emerald City.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
He didn't mean to do that, he did. First of all,
that was a wild fabrication of the events.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I was like, literally, you don't even watch the first
movie now.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Well, yeah, exactly, you lived it there.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
His interpretation of it is that Glinda asked him to
do this favor and he did it, and so he
thinks there's a connection also as those flashbacks if we
see them all at college together and out in the field
and spending time, like, there's so much time that they
have spent together that's been off screen.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
So you're mentioned I wanted to.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
See that time.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah, I have some questions make a third movie, and
it's just the time at university that we didn't see.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
I actually think boch apart from becoming the tin men
and like losing his humanity, the biggest punishment for him,
and that it's almost done with a real coldness, is
you know, when he's back in there city and he's
trying to rally people to go after Alphaba, after the
Wicked Witch, and he's screaming with fury, and he looks
up and he sees Glinda just looking down at him
(20:16):
with this detached, almost like hatred and sense of betrayal
on her face. And I think that that is almost
crueler than what happened to his body, because everything, like
this character has been motivated by being with this woman,
and then at the end of the day, all of
his actions led him to be reviled by the one
person he loved.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
And so it's almost like a forgotten.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Tragedy of the movie that people like, oh, yeah, got
turned whatever, kind of like we just move on from
that so quickly, because yeah, and that's the one thing
he cared about. Everything decision he made and.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Lost her jewelry, it's all attached to him, so dat data.
It is just.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
You're just like so flipp about this. It is a
great tragedy of Wicked I'll just keep going that the
character who's every decision was made by his heart ended
up losing it. And if you read the propaganda that
is the Wizard of Oars and watch that movie, you
think that he is this kind of kind being. But
we just know The Truth was one of my favorite movies.
(21:16):
I've got to say, until I read and saw Wicked.
Now I'm just like, I can't be a part of
propaganda and lies. Sorry, I can't write history.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
I thought, like the transformation and the design guy they
went with the tin Man was so good, incredible, so
spot on, and so true to the original tin Man
in The Wizard of Oz. Yeah, like I love that
they didn't make it like modernize it. Yeah, Like it
just looked incredible, like an actual costume.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
It looked incredible, and it also felt like it was
in the original story and books. It felt like a
punishment and a curse rather than just like a reshaping
of his body, especially because you can see that the
way Ethan Slater does his movements.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
He looks like he's in pain.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
He was like he's in pain every time he moves,
and that he's been kind of everything about his body
has been taken away from him. And so that's completely
tragic and a scarecrow.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
We'll get to you.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, we'll get to that later, because I have never
seen a refaction.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Why do they do it?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
We'll get to it. We'll get to it. And of course,
so much about going, I'm just gopt to push that
so much about like kind of going back and forth
between Nesso's obviously knowing that later on in the movie
she's going to be used as a ploy to draw
Alpha Bury in, but also the slippers on her feet
being the catalyst that kind of draws Elpha Burr England
together later on. I can always hear people whispering around
(22:34):
me in the cetem are like one, are the shoes
going to turn red? And I'm like, no, no, guys,
the shoes are not meant to be red. The revie
red slippers is another lie fed to us by the
Wizard of Oz because in the books, in the original
Wizard of Oz books, the shoes are always silver. Yeah,
and in the other following books the book the shoes
are silver. The reason they made them read in the
movie The Wizard of Oz is because they had this
(22:55):
new little fun thing called technicolor.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Like, look at us put color from this movie.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
One of the first movies that had color around. That's
why they'd made a whole big deal of like the
first bit of the movies, like in black and white
and she gets into os and it's all color.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Can I say that is one of the greatest shots
in history. I rewatched it recently with one of my
nephews because I wanted him to see The Wizard of
Oz for the first time when I was there so
I could give him a commentary.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Steps out and.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
He opens the door, and even my little six year
o nephew was.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Like, because, like, yeah, the whole magic. It's like proper magic.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
And so when they tried that in the original Wisdo
of Oz movie, the silver shoes just didn't pop on.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Screen, so they made them red.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
So I think it's important that they kept them silver
in this movie, true to the original material. But the
costume designer, who I hope within another Oscar, because the
costumes in this are incredible, put some little extra details
that have never been seen before. There are little tornadoes
in the side of the shoes to kind of allude
to what's happening. Yeah, incredible, and.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Then when they burn up, they go red. So I'm like,
you get your.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Bit, Yeah, you get your moments. That's a bit a
little homage. So coming back to where Alphaba and Glinda are,
where we see Alphabra arrive on Glinda's balcony door on
the night of her wedding, perfect timing. Yeah, and for
a moment there you think that she's going to come
back into the fold of the Wizard.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
I think like that scene kind of set the levels
of emotion for me, because right up until then when
they were separated, the like emotional and tragic level for
Alphabo is so heightened, like everything was like messing up,
Like even the animals weren't trusting her. Cowardly lion, come on,
you saved your life.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
But yeah again talk about propaganda.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
And he's like, she stole me, and I'm like, leap
did she?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Kind of like Colman Dimingo's voice every time the Lion spoke,
I was like, hey, Lion, I hate you. But also
you're like, why am I sexually attracted to the cowardly Lion?
It's not my fault. That's the power of Colemon Domingo's voice.
It came through the screen at me, and I already
confused because I found the tin man hot ice and
(24:47):
obviously fod a scare hot. Later on, it's too much
this movie. The Vice Master Wizard also hot with such
a looser Just forget me out of this world. It's
too sexually confusing. I hate it.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
So she's at Glinda's door and it's almost like now
they've both established their sisters. It's like the way you
talk to your sister, where like Glinda is pretty much like,
come on, dude, let's just go talk to him. Like
it's not that serious. Yeah, the steaks could not be
a lot for her, for her the stake, that's like
when That's how I liked the clash between them. Yeah,
because Alphabet's like, literally the world is burning down, like
(25:24):
it's so messed up out there, and she's like, dude,
just talk to him.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Yeah, you know, that's it's my wedding night.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Let's just go.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
She's like, I've got a dress up, what birds help
me get dressed?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I need to go, And even the wizards like, oh
hey again, security, nowhere can I just I'm actually just
realized why the beginning of the movie felt so jarring
to me. Now, it's because I think they did this
because they wanted the audience to not start on such
a heightened note. But in the top of the musical,
when Alphaba and Glinda come back together, they're a lot
angrier at each other and their remarks are a lot
(25:53):
more cutting, like when Alphabe really taunts Glinda for almost
accepting all of these different bribes. And in the stage
show version, which I know the movie you have to
watch it with different eyes, but sometimes I'm like, there's
a reason storytelling happens in a certain way in the
stage show where they're having that back and forth and
she's like, well, we kin'd all travel by bubble, and
in this she kind of says it with a bit
(26:13):
of an endeary like in the movie version, well we
kind of travel by bubble. Like It's such a subtle difference,
but yeah, it completely changes the tone of where these
characters are and what their relationship is to each other.
After that moment of your mental sort of think that
they had this big moment and then they both chose
different sides, and when they come back together, the tension
between it has.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Built, whereas that didn't happen in the movie.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Yeah, but I also found that very similar to even
the really really sad scenes. Like it's like the musical
was like extremes, yeah, and then the movie was also extremes,
but like on a level a bit below, and so
it wasn't as sad as it was still so sad,
but it wasn't as sad as a musical.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah, I think that is something that you kind of
just have to work into having a gear gap, because
you've got to think in a stage musical, you've been outside,
you've hopefully got another glass of wine, you've come back in,
you've had like thirty minutes, you're still in that really
heightened stage.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
So and you're so invested in the characters that whole time.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
And so when you come back in, you need the
character action on stage to match your height and emotions.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
And they have to like get your trust again.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, whereas in the movie he knows the audience is
coming out on that lower emotional level and we have
to build up together. So I kind of get it
that the bubble is such a metaphor for Glinda because
it's this floating symbol of her not being the thing
she wants to be, which she wants to be seen
as powerful, she wants to be seen as worthy, and
even though she's got that on the surface, she's still
(27:36):
hiding behind. Yeah, this trick that they've put in place.
And it's so interesting because John m chu said his
motivation for Glinda's character through this movie is like she's
got to pop her own bubble.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
She's got to pop her own bubble yea.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
And yes she does that physically when she pops the bubble,
But what his meaning is later on the movie, when
she pops the bubble for the last time, it's that
she's popping the bubble around her and this bubble of
perfection that she wanted and putting herself out into this
more realistic world.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
And even the bubble of safety. Right, And like when
you talk about it all the time in like MoMA
Miya House, sometimes we feel get that we do work
in a bubble and then we meet someone who's like
so opposite of us, especially, and we talked about this
a lot in dating. I'm literally like I forgot people
like this still exists. Yeah, and that's kind of like
what Glinda's doing, right, She's putting herself in the bubble
because you's refusing to see what's actually happening in the
(28:22):
world around her that she's like now the leader of Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Such a good point. And also, guys, guys, huge revelation.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
We wick it's a wicked assault, which I guess is
why they went so hard with the new song that
Ariana Grande sings in the movie, which is the girl
in the bubble beud with a beuiful life, such a beautiful.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Built tongue lies.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Now I'm gonna out myself as a betrayal of my religion.
My religion being Wicked, the musical, the songs, everything, because
as you know, I only listen to musical and Wicked
is my favorite musical of all time. I listened to
the soundtrack over and over again. And so every year
on Spotify, my top artist is Stephen Schwartz. That's not embarrassing,
just so you know, that's amazing. Stephen Schwartz, the original
(29:19):
composer of the Wicked musical. Yeah, a god among men
somewhere gave us to find gravity, games for good, gave
us popular Like what can this man not do except
to write your original song? Yeah, okay, so they had
to do it for the Oscar.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
That's it. That is what it feels like. So there
are two new songs in Wicked, which I.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Was No Place Like Home, Yes, and what was this
one called?
Speaker 3 (29:44):
So Cynthia Rivo sings no Place Like Home, which is
her new original song, and.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
You I'm the Wicked Witch of the West.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Ariana Grande sings the Girl in the Bubble, which is
her original song, both crafted by the man we were
listening like play good. I was like, well, just sing
popular again and I don't care. And so when I
first heard they were going to be two new songs,
I was like, oh my god, am I like to
get two new best friends in my life? Like that's
what it feels like, because the Wicked songs make up
my life and maybe I just had to listen to
(30:20):
them again and again and again. But these two new
original Wicked songs did not feel that they had earned
their place in this movie, is what I'll say to that.
And I think part of it John m Two, who
is my guiding light through all this, so that he
and Stephen Schwartz did this because they had more time
to fill. They had more space by making two movies,
and so they wanted to delve deeper into the backstories
(30:42):
of Alpha, Bart and Glinda, and they just started to
deal it with these two new original songs.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yeah. I wasn't a fan of the extra songs, not
because I didn't like the songs, but because I think
developing those characters would have been done better by a
spoken word like the film. Because even though this film
was shorter than the first film. I think it was
like thirty minutes. It felt like there were parts that like,
(31:09):
and I think it's the two songs I just dragged. Yeah,
and it made it drag. But also because these two
new songs made the film feel like it was dragging,
all the other bits that I really wanted them to
dive deep on felt rushed. Yes, Like all the like
multiple plot twists that happened in the end was just
like bam bam, bam, bam bam. And there were people
that we went with who hadn't actually seen the musical.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
I wish I could just erase the musical for a
moment to watch them, which is and I was excited.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
I was excited. I'm gonna out our video producer Michael.
He hadn't seen the musical, but he watched the first film,
and I was sitting next to him, so I was
excited to see his reaction for the plot twist. But
because they happened so so fast, it didn't actually give
him a time to register or react what was happening.
And that's not what I experienced when I watched the
musical at all. Yeah, the musical, the whole crowd would
be like, oh my god, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
No, no, I feel that so much. And one of
the reasons why these songs didn't work is because Wicked
is one of those rare, rare, rare musicals where even
though the songs are incredible, it's actually not about the songs.
You could take the songs out of Wicked and it
would still work as a story. I agree, because the
plot and the characters are so good, So every song
(32:21):
that's in there needs to really earn its place, and
the other songs all really earn their place, and I
feel like each song has when you think about I'm
not that girl, no good deed, was I really chasing
good or chasing attention? Like you have all these huge
moments and like forl good like a handprint on my heart,
my life has been to you know. They all move
(32:41):
the plot along in a really important way, and these
songs just felt like we were stepping into the characters
world to get a taste of where their mind was at.
And I was like, I was already there, Yeah, I
already got it. I get it, alphabet no place like
I move along go form love with your scarecrew man,
and what you're saying with the Oscars. It's like, I
know that every creative person invested in this film and
(33:05):
the years and years and years and years they spent
on it, I know that they wouldn't think this, But
what it comes across to us is the audience. It
feels like Oscar bait because the thing is like, they
can't be nominated for those original songs, and they can't
do a full performance unless they have these new songs
in the musical, and they wanted to give one to
Ariana and one to Cynthia, so they both have an
equal shot in that category, and so they will both
(33:26):
have a stronger shot in Best Supporting Actress, where we
know Ariana Grande is going, and Best Actress, where we
know Cynthia Reva was going.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
I want to talk about that, yes, because obviously know
that Cynthia is nominated for Best Actress and Ariana's Best
Supporting Actress. Yeah, this film didn't feel like arian I
was a supporting actress at all.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
A few people have brought that up because it's meant
to be Alphabet's story and it always sounded so weird.
Not that your opinion's wrong, but when I talk to
people after they've seen a stage show. And I've heard
so many people over the years be like, oh, the
Alphabet character was good, but she can't compare it to Glinda,
And I'm always just like, did we watch the same show.
It's Alphabet's story. She has the big powerful moment, she
(34:07):
has the plot twist, she has the best one liners,
like it's her movie. And they definitely added a lot
more in for Ariana Grande and the Glinda character this time.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
I didn't, but I didn't think about that for the musical.
I thought it was very much like what you said,
like Alphabet's story. But I definitely thought this part of
the movie, and even the first movie was alphabet story.
I definitely thought the second movie was Glinda's story.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
I guess it's the way they chose to open the movie,
which again is all new stuff that's been added in.
Is that the first movie opens with Alphabe's backstory as
a child, and then they cast a child to play
Glinda in the second movie, so you have flashbacks to her,
and I guess they do make more of her, like
stepping up into this leadership role, banishing Madam Morrible, all
these sorts of things.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
I guess they do lean into that more.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
I don't know. The thing is, they're running them in
different categories to give them a shot to win. I
hate when the politics of the oscars, which I love,
it's my main politics that I thought, not watch Wicked
exactly what happens when politics gets in the way. I
love the politics of the Oscars, but I do hate
when they encroach on my movie watching experience like they
did here, because it's like, I shouldn't be thinking about
the best actress race. I shouldn't be thinking about who
(35:15):
gets to perform best song first. I should be in
this world. And these songs pulled me out of it.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Yeah, but then I got pulled back in by some
of the best songs ever.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Pulled right back in.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
I think one of the things that works really well
is that I feel like some people will see Wicked
for Good and feel like it pales in comparison to
Wicked the first one, because it's a bit frothier, it's
a bit popular, it has a more natural beginning and
end in some ways, and people.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Know most of the songs in the first part.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Yes, which is crazy to me, because now that we're
in the meat of the second half, this is where
I think the good storytelling happens, and it doesn't just
happen in the crescendos of these big songs. And this
is where John and Chua, I'm like, give that man
an Oscar for directing. He knows that the biggest parts
of Wicked don't happen in the crescendos. He knows that
it happens in the quiet moments between songs. And that's
(36:04):
his best moment as a director, when he holds the
just on their faces in those really quiet moments and
we have those moments of betrayal we have. You know,
my favorite moment is in the movie. It's after Alpha
Bart and Glinda have had their fight next Tonessa Rosa's grease,
which is always one of my favorite scenes because the
physical comedy in that scene.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Such bad fighters.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
It's always I think about, like in Bridge Dones, like
that's how men would fight when they're just like half flitting,
half punched.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
I think that's what they studied Colin first.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Well, you're just like this is how you would fight.
You actually at the end of the day, you are.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
But two based on the girls such big dresses.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
And exactly, and Glinda is so tiny and other they're
just like so quite like a bit embarrassed for her.
Mostly it's just all so good that after that we
have pharo come in and say, Unhan that green girl,
which is always one of my favorite lines. When you
have that, and this is where Ariana Grande's acting is
so good, where you have that moment where Glinda's yelling
at the other guards and she's like leave him alonely
(37:08):
from alone, he loves her, and that's the first time
she'll ever admit to herself that he just loves her
and that there's no trickery, there's no betrayal in it's
like her real inquishing any kind of hate and just
couldn't be me, Sorry.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Couldn't be that of all, take it.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
In fact, bring more guts.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Okay, this is why you're the hero of the story.
And again Jonathan Bailey's acting. Also, where's his best actor,
oscar I hope it's coming for this role. Thing that
ends maybe where he is like I'm so sorry, I'm
so sorry, and I was like, this.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Is he said like two lines in the hole.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
It's the way he said that, Emily.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
It was so good. Just also a question, okay, so
you know.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
When he follows her back to so I'm jumping when
he follows her back to her next.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Yeah, away, Okay, let's get to that.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
And she's like singing about like pretty much having sex
with him. Yeah, and he's kind of looking around. I
had this's a technical thing for me. Then I get
really confused on musicals. Could he hear what you say?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Could hear? Yes? Okay, here's the rule of musicals is
whether other characters can hear the song or not is
there's always a very subtle light change, and there's always
a very subtle like the other characters if they're not
supposed to be part of the song, they'll turn their
heads slightly. So there is a part in As Long
as Your Mind where Fierius is sort of turned away,
(38:35):
So in that moment he can't hear her, but the
rest of the song they are singing together.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
So yes, answer my question.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
No, so he can't hear in the beginning, but he
hears her as a song.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Go as long does that make that hous interest? Like
you've been saying something it's like you talking about for me,
because that's why I'm here.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
It's kind of implied.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Okay, as long as your Mind I've got to say
is and this is why the next person who says
the second half of Wicked doesn't have any good songs,
I'm sorry. I'm not clock that person across the face.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
I remember being more sexier in the musical. Yeah, okay,
come on.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
It is one of the sexy songs you'll ever hear.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
The first time I saw it on stage with Rob Milsey,
and I've been in love with him, in love with
him ever since the first time I saw it on stage.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
I always like I have to look away. It's too much.
I feel like I'm watching people through like a bedroom
window or something. It is so sexy.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
And this is the time where sometimes less is more
because on stage it's actually one of the quietest songs
in Wicked. There's no big special effects, there's no background
actors or dancing. It's just most of that song is
the actress playing Alphabet and the actor playing Fierro, just
kneeling on the stage together, holding each other and singing
(39:47):
with their faces so close together. And it's just so
romantic and intimate. And I don't know if the movie
version captured that intimacy in the way I wanted. I
think Cynthia and Jonathan captured it in their expressions and
the way they touched each other, the way they kiss.
People are saying they have no chemistry. I don't believe
(40:07):
that's true.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
I don't think they have they have chemistry. No, explain yourself, Well,
when those scenes, you're meant to feel like, whoa, this
is amazing, I felt I was like, WHOA, I feel
like a pervert because like, I feel like these two
don't want me to witness anything that's sex and I
want you to watch it. Yeah, and I feel like
they were forced, like they were forced to do it.
But I also didn't think this was Jonathan Bailey's best
(40:30):
performance in general. Really yeah?
Speaker 2 (40:33):
What?
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Yeah? I loved him in the first movie.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Oh my God, the longing, the character development, the sorrow
and transformation he goes through, the self realization, the long
the yearning Emily.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
I wonder if like it just felt rushed for me,
like he didn't do it for me.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
I just think that that seed needed to be smaller,
and I think there's a few scenes that I think
didn't need to be a bit smaller. I understand John
m Chwu, I know we've got the budget. I know
we've got the money. I also know that he doesn't
care about my opinion, and I do think one of
the best things that the creative team for Wicked did
is just go away, film it all in one go.
And and John m chu I must always say his
full name. John m chwo said that the man trick
(41:11):
he had in his head for these movies was turn
your back to the audience and conduct the orchestra. So
don't think about what people like us are saying, don't
think about the fans, think about what the people in
front of you, the actors and the musicians, are doing,
and only focus on them. And I think that is
very good, not to let the noise in. But my
note for him, should he want to listen, is that
girl in the Bubble felt like you could barely see
(41:33):
Arianna Grunde and all those crazy set dressings and flashbacks
and everything like it overshadowed her. And I think the
same thing happened a little bit in as long as
your mind, because you're almost distracted by like you're saying
her hide away and then she's changing clothes and at
one stage they're flying.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Yeah, what the hell?
Speaker 2 (41:50):
I just yeah, I thought the best parts that somewhere
they were kind of just.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Because they're flying. It's sorry, do you remember that beer? Right, because.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Because he's got.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
She's holding him and he's but because they're in the air,
looks like she's lifting him.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Min she's holding him up.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Yeah, but like as it's like she's carrying him like
a baby. But it's only because he's taller than her.
And then they just started floating in that same height position.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
I mean it was really awkward, Like it was just
weird aggressive.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
We're so used to seeing like the superhero man come
in sweep the woman up and fly her around, and
now it's fear.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
That's what he needed, being flowing around the room.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
I thought the best part of that song when it
clearly closed in on just their faces together and you
saw them kiss and know that they just had great
sex after that, Yeah, which is a whole pleasure. No, No,
the whole point of those characters, the subtext of this
is that they have incredible sex throughout the whole thing.
And she's like, NESSA gotta go, yeah, and he's just
(42:51):
a bit like, oh, do I stay, do I go?
What do I do?
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Then he goes and find some monkeys.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Yeah, huge, huge moment for them, and then we're moving
into his transformation, which again is one of.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
The sorrowful parts of Wicked.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
In a way, it's also one of the biggest plot twists.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Yeah, And I know I'm saying negative about this movie,
which I must say I loved very much, But I
just don't when you're saying before about some plot twists
not being given the room they needed to grow and
the room they needed to be able to hit, what
a big reveal they are. I think his transformation was
one of them.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
His yeah, was one of them. It was like I
was actually quite disappointed in the reveal of his transformation
and then the actual reveal of his face on top
of that.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
I have never felt a collective screaming gasp around me.
And people weren't screaming and gasping because they didn't know
that Fierro turns into the scarecrow at the end. They
were screaming and gasping because they didn't know what his
face as a scarecrow would look like. Fear Crow as
people are calling him.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
It was not good. I can't even begin to explain it.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
It is.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
How would you sorry? How would you explain I'm sorry?
Speaker 2 (44:00):
At this stage, no it's okay. I'm trying to think
about how to explain it. At this stage of the movie,
I'm I'm openly weeping.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Your eyes are already blurred.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
I can barely see what's happening. So I didn't register
at first when I saw him exactly how you know what?
Speaker 1 (44:17):
He looked like Jonathan Bailey with like a snapchat filter
on his face.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
Yes, oh my god, that's it, Like.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Any of us could do that. That's like what we
would imagine. We were just doing it ourselves on a computer,
but all like on our phone.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
Yeah, but not.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
Yeah, I just for a movie that is so incredible.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
It looks like AI.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Yeah, I just think for a movie that's.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
So incredible, especially practical.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Especially because we saw The Tin Man before that and.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
That said the bar so high amazing.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Yeah, I think they should have done that with Jonathan Bailey,
like go for an ode for the original Scarecrow, like
the sack with the like the features. Yeah, and like
I don't know, he just it looked like a plastic
covering over his Yeah, it literally looked like a filter textured. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
It was weird.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
It looked like it was like, yes, but it was
just because.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
It's meant to be such a It is such a
powerful moment because also for most people in that theater,
and she has to.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Pretend to be like shocked and be like Fiera, and
I'm like, obviously, it's it anyone. It's not a Clark
and situation.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
We all know it's maybe. She was like, I want
to change my mind, like I'm tapping out, and I
was supposed to stay with you.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
For better or for worse.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Actually I think I'll be okay on my own.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Yeah you can. You're like, I'm just not that girl,
but no, I mean, look, I did cry it this
bit because it is so beautiful because on one hand,
you have the reveal that Alpha Burrow is alive and
that Fierra's fate is sealed, and it is this sadness,
but you kind of have this moment of knowing that
these two people who are so so deeply in love
(45:49):
have found each other and are going to walk away
together into this new world. And it's also interesting that
Alphabil was always seen as the outcast because of how
she looked, and now a man who was previously like
the ideal of beauty is now an outcast because how
he looked.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
It's like the individual.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
I was also like when I remember I watching the
musical when I was younger, and I was like, she
did that spell on purpose, she knew what she was doing.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
Oh my god, no good deed when she casts the spell.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Can I just say it's always one of my favorites
because it is again about talking about songs that have
to be earned to.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
Be in there.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
It is this moment where up until then, Alphabet has
this scene where she's almost an unattainable heroine for us
because she was like, I don't care about myself.
Speaker 3 (46:29):
I just care about the animals.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
I care about right and wrong, and I care about
nothing else, and like that's just not a human thing.
Everyone's actions were they're good about and motivated by something
for them. So when she talks about like did I
just want this because I wanted to prove I was special?
Do I wanted to prove I was the best? Did
I want the attention for this? And have I brought
this on myself? Is one of the best character developments,
(46:51):
I would say, in history. But it is so well done.
It's so perfectly done. It's so clever, and I think
that song encapsulates it so much. And you kind of
almost see the payoff of that song in this moment
where in that moment she knows that she has done
work for the greater good, but she also has to
live with the consequences of her actions, which is disfiguring
the man she loves so And what I thought maybe
(47:13):
was a little bit missed is that in the stage show,
not to always bring it back to that, but it's
such a huge plot point that he stumbles when they
try to walk away to go to this new life,
and she has to hold him and carry him. Is
this metaphor of her having to carry him for the
rest of their lives and look after him. And I
don't know how much of that was brought into the movie,
or maybe it was in a way I don't know.
(47:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
At that point, I was just laughing.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
I do think that their storyline came to a beautiful
end of the movie, and it did feel so urned.
I just wish they had spent a little bit of
time setting up him being the scarecrow and setting up
the stakes of that. And I guess that because you
see the tin men's face and the lead up, you
see the lion's face, you never see his face until
the end, and that's supposed to be a little wink
to the audience who doesn't know about what's coming. So
(47:57):
there is that. Okay, shall we get to the only
the real story, the real love story in Wicked, which
Gladder and Alphabet being that I did.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
Really tear up for is when they told each other
I love you behind the door.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
The thing about for Good is it is just, oh
my god, this is such a transformative song. And it's like,
I know that people listen to that song all the time,
and that people have listened to it in the movie,
in the stage show, and like myself, people listen to it.
But I also urge people to just sit down and
also just read the lyrics because the lyrics are so beautiful,
and it is, at the end of the day, a
(48:33):
love story between these two women, and this moment where
the kind of weight of the consequences of what they're
choosing to do, which is to be separated forever. Obviously
Glinda is not aware of what's going to happen, but
Alphabet does know. But the stakes in that moment are
so high.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
Yeah, because I feel like it's very obvious because Glinda
loves loudly and I feel like it's very obvious how
much love Glinda has for Alpha Biden. It's not as
obvious for Alphabek because she's much more reserved, But you
find out that her love is so great because she
doesn't give Glinda the choice. She makes a choice for
her by telling her that she's still alive because she
(49:09):
knows that Filna would just like follow her or like
bring her back. Yeah, and she does that for her.
And I think that's like the moment in the movie
where you're like, oh my god, yeah right am I right? Girls?
Speaker 2 (49:19):
So it is yeah, like it is this kind of
beautiful centering of this friendship that's you and me. It
would just be one hundred percent like us that moment
again about John and two knowing when to like really
hold in a moment and knowing when the quieter moments
are more important than the song. That moment where Alphaba
shuts her behind the door and the camera just holds
(49:41):
on them for so long, of each of them pressing
against the door and sobbing, and both of the actresses
had I mean, they're both incredible in this, but the
build up to that moment, especially because they shot the
movies back to back, and they both did all this
extensive work, Like Ariana Grande would come to set with
like all these notebooks with hundreds of pages of handwritten
(50:02):
notes so she would know emotionally where she was at
at each scene to appropriately build that moment. Cynthia River
had all these like sense memory tricks, like different perfumes
through different scenes, so she could always smell where she was,
like in Alphabet's Journey, and so she could differentiate. Because
the thing is, the way they react in this moment
is so different to how they react at the end
of the movie, and that when we see them say
(50:23):
goodbye and the moment they first became friends. And so
when you see them pushing of two sides of the
locked door, it's this idea that their friendship is severed forever,
but they're gonna hold onto this moment and it is
so beautiful and heartbreaking. Like that is when I was
like literally sobbing so hard that I actually thought I
might have to just like crawl into the floor.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
It was just so much. And also I think I
always thought it was odd when people like who's gonna
play Dorothy, Where's Dorothy gonna be?
Speaker 3 (50:51):
I'm like she's kept off screen for a reason.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
Yeah, similar to the musical, which is what I like.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
She's not part of this world, it's not.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
The interesting part is that you see it how it
weaves with m Yeah, the Wizard.
Speaker 2 (51:03):
Of Again is the magic Wicked of knowing it Like
how wonderfully secret backstory is set within the original story
that it's not meant to be Dorothy's story, So she
absolutely should not be on screen. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:13):
I would throw my popcorn the screen if i'd seen
her face. Really, Yeah, because you're not meant to That's
the whole point of it.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
And Dodo.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
And so those final moments I think where we see
Glinda kind of come into her power, we see her
pop the bubble that she lives in, and then we
see Alphabet make this choice that feels really earned. At
the end of she thought the most powerful thing she
could do was to be visible, but sometimes the most
powerful thing you can do is be invisible, and so
(51:42):
you see her make that choice and also get a
happy ending to an extent.
Speaker 3 (51:49):
There went to the other world.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
Yeah, whatever that was.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
Overall, I think I know that there's been mixed reviews
about Wicked for Good, but overall, I think it's an
incredible piece of filmmaking and storytelling.
Speaker 1 (52:01):
And I want to watch both of them now, back
to back.
Speaker 3 (52:03):
Let's do it right now.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Just that's all I want to do. So, oh we
we did it.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
Go cry by myself now because it's just God is
just the best thing of the whole world, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (52:15):
My grade is the best thing.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
Well, thank you so much for listening to this very special,
brudely honest review of Wicked. For good, do not forget that.
If you haven't listened to our briodlyan review of the
first Wicked film, please do. We'll put that in our
show notes as well. Maybe do it back to back.
Speaker 3 (52:31):
Yeah, that'll be like a double Wicked double feature.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
And if you're loving our podcast, please give us a
rating and review whichever app you're listening to. It really
really helps us.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
And spillers, you're going to love this. So for Black Friday,
Mamma Mia is giving you our biggest discount of the
year on a subscription. Right now, you can get twenty
one dollars off a yearly subscription, bringing it down to
just forty eight dollars for the whole year. That means
full access to world leading podcasts, Unmissible Stories, subscriber giveaways
(53:02):
and our Fitness at Move by Mma Mia. But it's
not forever, so don't miss it. If you want to
grab this deal, just head to link in our show
notes for all that goodness.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
The bill is produced by Benetias Where and would Sound
production by Scott's Stronik and we will see you next time.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
Bye bye, Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land.
We have recorded this podcast on the Gatigol people of
the eorination. We pay our respects to their elders past
and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and
(53:39):
Torres Strait islander cultures.
You're listening to Amma mea.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Podcast from Mamma Mia. Welcome to the Spill, your daily
pop culture fix. I'm Laura Prodnick and I'm am Vernon
and I can't believe I'm about to say this. I
have waited a year and twenty one years before that
(00:30):
to say these words. But this is our brutally honest
review of Wicked for Good.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
For Good, and now you went to harmonize good.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
You put the lyrics to a different song. But that's okay.
I don't think anyone on this.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
For good. It's Cynthia Josh Clut, one of our video producers,
Josh Clut.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
We're in a soundproof studio and Emily's just permeated the
soundproof walls. The story double glass door.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Again.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Cynthia would be so proud is the good.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
It's the work of read.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
You can weave that wand all you want, but you
have no real power.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I'm a public figure.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Now people expect me to fly. Be encouraging.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Because it helps, and it's flying to Disco. I'm lo
have to see the Wizard.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
So Wicked for Good has now been in cinemas for
over a week. We were lucky enough to see it early,
so we've really been permeating our thoughts. And you know
what's interesting that I was thinking before we came in
here is that we attended the premiere together and we
sat in the same row, but we had our producer
and video producer between us, and we actually haven't discussed
(02:06):
this movie. I have no idea we have not purposely.
Obviously you didn't think about this, but I was like,
we're going to save all of our thoughts for this room.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
So I don't know whether you I've been avoiding you
like the plague, Oh my god, like you're a.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Green skinned girl in the world of Oz, I know
that story. Initial thoughts, Okay, firstly, yeah, the premiere, Yeah,
love the party.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Wow, this doesn't bode well for the rest of the movie.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Are you serious? Imagine if we just cut the episode here.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
In the party, love the food. Look the movie for me,
initial thoughts was like not better, not worse than the
first one. It just felt like, obviously it is an
extended version of the first one, and they filmed them
back to back, but it just felt like I was
watching the first movie again in terms of like theatrics,
(02:56):
like acting, cinematography. So I feel like with that because
when we did our Bridley Honest review for the first one,
which if you haven't listened to, your listened to that.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I absolutely listened to. It was the best moment of
my life.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I show nights for you because we have a lot
of episodes between these two, but I remember my initial
thoughts for the first one was like, oh my god,
there's a cinema like the cinematography, but because I already
had that wow factor, that wasn't my I didn't get
a secondary one for this because I obviously expected it.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
The first movie, Wicked, which came out over a year ago,
as we said, was very much like I guess, leading
people into that world for the first time. So it
has more spectacle, but Wicked for Good has more heart
and like it asked more of you, and we'll get
into this as we talk at the ending.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
It asked more of you as a viewer, but the
payoff is better.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
It's so sad.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, well, did you see my face? I was just
talk at the premiere, but did you see my face?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Okay, so obviously I sobbed through the original Wicked and
you and I were sitting side by side with Cynthia
and Ariana. Of course you play Alphabet and Glinda in
the cinema with us.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, and it wasn't even a cinema, it was like
a theater.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah. And that was a heightened experience and just not
overwhelming of seeing my very favorite musical on a movie screen.
I think hit me so hard that I was sobbing
so much that at one stage you leaned over to
me and said, you are making all the chairs in
this row shape.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah. There was like a lady next to us who
was wearing a witch's hat, and I was like wobble.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Just because my sobs were brickachet.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
So this that's the fault of the theater.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
That is the fault of the theater.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Now this time we were in a proper cinema.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, this time we had we had reclining seat. It's
had a little drink.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Train, so when you were sobbing, I couldn't feel it. No,
I was on the other.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Side of the Oh boy, could you see it if
you saw it this time.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
I feel like this movie, in particular, compared to the
first movie, everyone had that moment.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Yeah. Well, I just I didn't expect it to hit
me that hard.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I started crying in the first when Glinda's up on
the podium when she's singing about love. It won't thrill
you the way you think it will those moments. And
when she saw at Fiera, I started sobbing that and
I didn't expect it to hit me so hard the
second time, but it just packs a bigger emotional punch,
to the point where I just had like black tears
from my mascara just running down my tire face and
(05:07):
no girl saw it was It was not good.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
So made it to the after party though, Yeah, looking.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Crazy, but that's okay. That's what Wicked does to people.
So I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Everyone's across the law of Wicked. But the original Broadway
show came out in two thousand and three, and it's
a reimagining of the book by Gregory Maguire called Wicked
The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West,
which is of course based on the novel The Wonderful
Wizard of Oz, which of course went on to be
The Wizard of Oz.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
And those books are hectic.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Those books.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
It's so wild. When everyone says to me, oh my god,
I love Wicked. I can't wait to go read the books,
and I'm like, the.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Books, you're getting a different story, girl.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
You are getting the wildest story.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Can I just say I really liked the Wicked I
started reading them.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Did you must try?
Speaker 1 (05:52):
I warned you. Yeah, it was too scary.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
They're so dense, they're much more politically minded. Also, Elfa
brang Glinda not friends friends for a tiny moment, but.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah, the music really ran with that.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
The music one take that one half a page where
they're like should we be friends and they're like nah.
The musical really takes that one page, which I guess
is like the whole magic of the story, and reimagined
it in this tale. I remember when I was reading
one of the later books in the Wicked series and
Alphabet's son goes to Glinda like in peril and needs
her help and she's like no. And there's also a
(06:25):
lot of rape and war and pillaging and whatnot, but
not in this beautiful musical that we got to see.
And so there was a lot of contention when director
John m. Chwo decided that he wanted to obviously like
adapt the musicals into a movie and slicing it right
down the middle. Would you think of that now? That
you've seen it.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I knew because I watched the musical twice before I
saw the movie, so I knew what to expect in
this uff because obviously the second movie it follows the
same pattern of the musical where it happens after the intermission,
and from watching the musical, you know that the scenes
that take place after the intermission are super sad and depressing,
(07:04):
and that's just theater. So I feel like in theater
you kind of expect anything, And it's so different to
cinema because in cinema, especially when you're doing a retelling
of something that's like so big and so wonderful, that's
for the masses, you always expect a happy ending, and
you expect to feel good and you expect to have fun,
and all of that just happens in the first half. Yeah,
(07:26):
and the second half is just like, oh my god.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, that's the thing. As the biggest Wicked fan in
the world, even I would say that the re entry
into this world after a year long break is slightly
shaky in those first moments, like it does feel like
they've sort of just dropped you back in OZ and
it does take a minute to send to yourself.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I think you had to watch the first film again
really just before getting back into this.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Oh yeah, if you're not across.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah, and this is like someone who's watched the musical
and seen the movie a few times. I was a
bit like, wait, where are we? Like what's the timeline?
Like what happens?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Yeah, I guess that's a question a lot of people have.
And here's the thing I guess is like, it's interesting that,
like Wicked, the first movie does almost stand alone as
its owner. I was just gonna say that, although you
would be crazy and the soulless human being if you
saw the first one and didn't see the second one, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Like, definitely see the second one. But I feel like
for rewatches, I can't actually see myself seeing both of them.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Really because but the best songs are in the second half.
But I'm depressed as but the most beautiful moments are.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
In the second movie, too sad for me.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Okay, we're gonna get this as we go on.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I actually do believe that the best moments are in
the second half. Really yeah, Okay, so yeah, I do
think that this movie feels like an extended ending, But
I also think that's kind of okay, because it's it's
made for people who have seen the first movie. So
if you wander into that cinema without seeing the first movie,
that's on you. If you're wandering without.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
You won't understand this single. Imagine that's something my dad
would do, for sure.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
How someone stopping before he wanders in.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
And he'll be like and then he was a Scarecrow's like,
oh my god, Dad was hardly Dorothy.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah, that is not the Wizard of Dad.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
So our first scene showing Alphaba is to show that
she's now hidden in the woods. She's trying to show
people who the Wizard really is, and she's doing that
by almost like attacking the people who are making the
yellow brick road.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
And then we see that deserved yeah exactly, as we
know that road does not always lead people to what
it needs to go exactly, So that's on them. And
then we find Glinda is very much become the puppet
of Madame Morrible and the Wizard of kind of being
their anti Alphaba, and she's.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Loving it, and she's well, I think she's she is conflicted.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
She's loving it because, as we know from her extended
backstory that we get in this movie.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
It is all she's ever wanted.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah, the Munchkins are like that evil witch deserves to die,
and she's like, wait a minute, I can say that.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah, you can't say exactly. That's my friend won't acknowledge publicly.
And we also see her surprise Pharaoh on stage with
news of their engagement.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Honestly, I think that's what we need to be doing there. Yeah,
enough of their situation waiting for an going on a
million dates before you confirm a relationship. Get him on
stage and tell him you're already engaged.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Tell him you know what.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
They're surprised.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
They're simple creatures.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
At the end of the day, Glinda is a girl.
She made that happen.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
She started marrying at first sight.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I love Fierro's like slow Burn, how he falls in
love with Alphabet throughout both movies, and how.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
To say that the gun that he holds.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
What are you gonna say of Ben's gun?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
I'm not gonna I just don't know how much Fierro
slander I'm gonna take on this pod.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
So I thought it was like a short walking stick
because it looks insane.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
It's a musket, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I do that? What it is.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Yeah, I don't know what a musket is, but that
sounds no follow up questions, but I was like, surely
no bullets are coming out of that.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Well I don't think that.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
I don't even like you.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Didn't even have like a trigger on it.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
The world of Oz is the place where the guards
are like heavily armed in that way people fight with
like when they fight at the end, they're literally all
fighting with their hands and magic. It's not that kind
of show where gunfire comes out, thank god. So you
see Fear, he's become captain of the Guard. He's got
a musket. He's looking for Alpha ba He's riding his
horse valiantly out of Oz. Do you know that that
horse is the Sreme horse. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Yeah, they've painted in blue for this.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Well they see g Idim.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
I don't think they no, that's his horse from Bridgerton.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I think you told me this on the first the
most important the movie.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
You're shocked a second it the horse is like this
guy again.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Well, if you look at the photos of Jonathan Bailey
and his horse, So the horse's name is Jack. He's
got a very extensive resume. He used him in Bridgeton
and just felt a really affinity with him, and he
felt that out of everyone that he worked with on Bridgeton,
I don't know what this says about the rest of
the cast. He was the most calming presence, okay, and
the most steadfast And so they brought the horse to
the set to continue filming with him, and all the
(11:53):
photos are just Jonathan Bailey hugging Jack, kissing him, wrapping
his arms around.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Him, and Jack Jackie the name of the horse.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, Jack's same, the horse and Jack looking so uninterested
in the whole situation.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
So it's a one sided friendship.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
But it's nice to know that Jonathan Bailey could demand
one co star to work with in this project and
he picks the horse.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Yeah. I want to see the horse and everything he's
in there.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I think that's going to happen. Jonathan Bailey goes nowhere
without this horse, a man alive and it's just to
be that horse. Imagine being cradled by Jonathan Bailey and
just being like no thanks, not like between the sighs
where the horse is no.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
But in the photos he's coupling his face.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
That's time.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
It's quite cute and I wouldn't like to be dyed
for a job. But I guess the horse doesn't have
an opinion.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Yeah, maybe they'll be an expose one day. Okay, so
this is going off.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
We spend so much time talking about the horse.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I just feel like it's important in thematic universe. So
now we're getting kind of into like the stakes of
where everyone is, and it's hugely up to the wedding,
which works almost like as a coronation in the eyes
of Madame Morrible and the Wizard of crowning Glinda as
she's nowhere now since she's changed her name on a
whim as kind of the ruler of these people and
(13:05):
trying to draw Alphabeurian. So we've got that storyline happening
on one side, But then we have our second storyline
happening over in munchkin Land with Nasa Rose and bok
O god Buck. And did you like I thought box
ark In this was great. I mean, obviously I know
it was gonna happen, but I never know how it's
going to play out his arc.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
He was just angry the whole time.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
No, no, no, But he goes from being like it
is kind of interesting.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
A munchkin that's angry to a tin man who's angry.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
No, Emily, it's much more involved than that.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Okay, so he's okay, first he's a fuck boy because he.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Was like, oh, don't maybe be a box defender, but
I'm gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
He was like, hey, Nessa, so now that, like you're said, Oled,
I'm gonna go and tell the love of my life
that I love her before she marries someone you love,
who you love, we can't help, but don't tell her
that just escape she was eak out ghost her.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
So what we learn about this and then and then
he betrays.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
All the Munchkins. No one can travel now because a
box stupid decision.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Okay, backstracking a few seconds and gliding over a few
accusations that were just made. Then is that we come
back to Nessa Rose, who is now the governor of
Munchkin Land since the death of her father. Everyone's saying
he died from shame from what Alphabet did and also
good riddance because that man is actually the center of
a lot of issues in this story.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Did he die again of shame?
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Oh that's a real thing that we all think, that's
what they say in the movie.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Technically we all die from shame.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, eventually you just like can't be here anymore. And
so we know that Nessa Rose has been made the
governor of munchkin Land. And what's interesting is that so
much of the first movie was seeing her kind of
being in this world that has shown to her, and
her getting a taste of this life she wanted and
becoming very centered on that, which is interesting because because
the movie's been cut in half and each movie is
(14:47):
the length of the original stage show, what they were
able to do is broaden Outnessa Rose's storyline a little bit,
which I found quite interesting, and give her a few
more scenes at a bit more context, which I think
is a great use of Marissa Body, the actress who
plays her. This is her first acting role, her first
professional acting role, and when you think of that as
you're watching her, she knocked it out the park. She's
(15:07):
also the first actress who was actually in a wheelchair
to play that role.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah, is that crazy?
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I mean, I know, I know how theater works in entertainment,
so it's actually not that crazy, Like it's not a
very welcoming space, but.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
It actually is crazy though, because if you've known Wicked,
there's been so many stage productions around the.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
World twenty years and I'm not across hundreds of stages
on different in different countries.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
How does it take for it to become a feature
film for the first time, to have her as Yeah,
I found that so so wild that I've never had
this before. But very happy with Marissa. She's amazing. She
killed her role and I think the anger that she embodies.
I think she has like the best character arc actually,
because you see her going from being Nessa to becoming
(15:49):
the wicked Witch of the East, and you see that
happen so quickly, but her emotions are so gradual. Yeah,
Like you get tastes of it in the first movie
when she sees like Boch liking Linda, and you see
like the tiny hints of rage she has that is
straight away calm down when he is shures her that
he likes her. And then in the second movie you
know that she has that like fiery ability, so you're
(16:12):
just like waiting for it to come out. Yeah, and
I think she does it so so well.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah. It's like when you're first introduced to her, she
is almost seen as this like very fragile, childlike being
who people even Alphabet to extend everyone sort of like
coddling her and caring for her, and I like that
in the second movie, she is just like a flawed character.
She's just a flawed human being who all of her
motivations are come from a selfish place. But all the
characters in the show do because they're human. That's what
(16:37):
makes Wick it's such a good show. But it's interesting
that her gripe and her issue with Alphaba is nothing
to do with her choosing to go against the Wizard,
and it's nothing to choose around how she appears publicly,
and she's probably the only person in this world who's
against Alphabet who one truly doesn't believe she's evil as
other people do who have this fearfulness of her. And
(17:00):
she also isn't angry at her for not telling the
lines the Wizard. She's angry at her feeling like she
has been left in this position and by herself. And
she got a glimpse of this world that she could
have been part of when they went to She's University,
and now she's been relegated back to being locked in
munchkin Land and her resent for alphab but comes from that.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yeah, Oh, I didn't like that scene when they were fighting.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
I know, but that is very much the crux of
that I can't.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Catch a break with anyone. Yeah, she's just probably flying
around saving some animals, getting verbally abused by her sister.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
This is to be getting received, so love of.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Her life's chasing her down. Her best friend doesn't want
to talk to her.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
I know she's in a rough spot, That's what I think.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
And then we get a little bit more also of
box storyline where if we find out come on now.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Okay, I actually think even Slater's.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Great in this for all. You know what he's better in,
don't say SpongeBob gen B.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Okay, well that's why you guys, if you haven't watched
gen B, that's where I'm watching it.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Well yeah, well exact, we're both even Slater fangirls now
for different reasons. But that kind of note where she
says to him, and this is why it's good to
get a bit more time with these characters that we
don't get in the stage show. Is is where she
talks about him being the only one to come and
visit her when her father died and she was left alone,
and his reward from that is being enslaved by her
(18:17):
because he's the only one who's ever shown her affection.
Like their storyline before the whole transformation is so beautifully tragic.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
He just annoys me.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Why because he's short? No annoys me about people too.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
He was like, why A, you're not pretty sure.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
And you annoy me? Like why she's so small?
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Okay? He's like, look at me. I'm bock, Glinda because
I'm talking about movie on Glinda, I love you. Glinda's like,
I don't love you. I love Fierro. Box's like, oh no,
I'm sad. Who else can I love? Oh? Look at
that girl over there? Hey, Nessa want to dance at me? Sure,
bock and that's all let's dance. Okay. I guess I'll
just follow you to whatever crew you'll want because I
(18:56):
have no aspirations whatsoever. So now I'm Nessa's right hand man.
Blah blah blah. Oh my god, the love of my life, Glinda,
who's never given me time of day, is getting married
to the love of her life. Yeah, I must go
stop it, even though she has no idea who I am. Sorry, Nessa,
I know that I said, I stay with you forever.
But I'm actually leaving, see ya. And then he gets
to the train station and not only does he get banned,
(19:19):
but he's banned all of the Munchkins. Everyone's like, Buck,
none of us can go to Emerald City.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
He didn't mean to do that, he did. First of all,
that was a wild fabrication of the events.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I was like, literally, you don't even watch the first
movie now.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Well, yeah, exactly, you lived it there.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
His interpretation of it is that Glinda asked him to
do this favor and he did it, and so he
thinks there's a connection also as those flashbacks if we
see them all at college together and out in the field
and spending time, like, there's so much time that they
have spent together that's been off screen.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
So you're mentioned I wanted to.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
See that time.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah, I have some questions make a third movie, and
it's just the time at university that we didn't see.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
I actually think boch apart from becoming the tin men
and like losing his humanity, the biggest punishment for him,
and that it's almost done with a real coldness, is
you know, when he's back in there city and he's
trying to rally people to go after Alphaba, after the
Wicked Witch, and he's screaming with fury, and he looks
up and he sees Glinda just looking down at him
(20:16):
with this detached, almost like hatred and sense of betrayal
on her face. And I think that that is almost
crueler than what happened to his body, because everything, like
this character has been motivated by being with this woman,
and then at the end of the day, all of
his actions led him to be reviled by the one
person he loved.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
And so it's almost like a forgotten.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Tragedy of the movie that people like, oh, yeah, got
turned whatever, kind of like we just move on from
that so quickly, because yeah, and that's the one thing
he cared about. Everything decision he made and.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Lost her jewelry, it's all attached to him, so dat data.
It is just.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
You're just like so flipp about this. It is a
great tragedy of Wicked I'll just keep going that the
character who's every decision was made by his heart ended
up losing it. And if you read the propaganda that
is the Wizard of Oars and watch that movie, you
think that he is this kind of kind being. But
we just know The Truth was one of my favorite movies.
(21:16):
I've got to say, until I read and saw Wicked.
Now I'm just like, I can't be a part of
propaganda and lies. Sorry, I can't write history.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
I thought, like the transformation and the design guy they
went with the tin Man was so good, incredible, so
spot on, and so true to the original tin Man
in The Wizard of Oz. Yeah, like I love that
they didn't make it like modernize it. Yeah, Like it
just looked incredible, like an actual costume.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
It looked incredible, and it also felt like it was
in the original story and books. It felt like a
punishment and a curse rather than just like a reshaping
of his body, especially because you can see that the
way Ethan Slater does his movements.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
He looks like he's in pain.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
He was like he's in pain every time he moves,
and that he's been kind of everything about his body
has been taken away from him. And so that's completely
tragic and a scarecrow.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
We'll get to you.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, we'll get to that later, because I have never
seen a refaction.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Why do they do it?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
We'll get to it. We'll get to it. And of course,
so much about going, I'm just gopt to push that
so much about like kind of going back and forth
between Nesso's obviously knowing that later on in the movie
she's going to be used as a ploy to draw
Alpha Bury in, but also the slippers on her feet
being the catalyst that kind of draws Elpha Burr England
together later on. I can always hear people whispering around
(22:34):
me in the cetem are like one, are the shoes
going to turn red? And I'm like, no, no, guys,
the shoes are not meant to be red. The revie
red slippers is another lie fed to us by the
Wizard of Oz because in the books, in the original
Wizard of Oz books, the shoes are always silver. Yeah,
and in the other following books the book the shoes
are silver. The reason they made them read in the
movie The Wizard of Oz is because they had this
(22:55):
new little fun thing called technicolor.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Like, look at us put color from this movie.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
One of the first movies that had color around. That's
why they'd made a whole big deal of like the
first bit of the movies, like in black and white
and she gets into os and it's all color.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Can I say that is one of the greatest shots
in history. I rewatched it recently with one of my
nephews because I wanted him to see The Wizard of
Oz for the first time when I was there so
I could give him a commentary.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Steps out and.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
He opens the door, and even my little six year
o nephew was.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Like, because, like, yeah, the whole magic. It's like proper magic.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
And so when they tried that in the original Wisdo
of Oz movie, the silver shoes just didn't pop on.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Screen, so they made them red.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
So I think it's important that they kept them silver
in this movie, true to the original material. But the
costume designer, who I hope within another Oscar, because the
costumes in this are incredible, put some little extra details
that have never been seen before. There are little tornadoes
in the side of the shoes to kind of allude
to what's happening. Yeah, incredible, and.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Then when they burn up, they go red. So I'm like,
you get your.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Bit, Yeah, you get your moments. That's a bit a
little homage. So coming back to where Alphaba and Glinda are,
where we see Alphabra arrive on Glinda's balcony door on
the night of her wedding, perfect timing. Yeah, and for
a moment there you think that she's going to come
back into the fold of the Wizard.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
I think like that scene kind of set the levels
of emotion for me, because right up until then when
they were separated, the like emotional and tragic level for
Alphabo is so heightened, like everything was like messing up,
Like even the animals weren't trusting her. Cowardly lion, come on,
you saved your life.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
But yeah again talk about propaganda.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
And he's like, she stole me, and I'm like, leap
did she?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Kind of like Colman Dimingo's voice every time the Lion spoke,
I was like, hey, Lion, I hate you. But also
you're like, why am I sexually attracted to the cowardly Lion?
It's not my fault. That's the power of Colemon Domingo's voice.
It came through the screen at me, and I already
confused because I found the tin man hot ice and
(24:47):
obviously fod a scare hot. Later on, it's too much
this movie. The Vice Master Wizard also hot with such
a looser Just forget me out of this world. It's
too sexually confusing. I hate it.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
So she's at Glinda's door and it's almost like now
they've both established their sisters. It's like the way you
talk to your sister, where like Glinda is pretty much like,
come on, dude, let's just go talk to him. Like
it's not that serious. Yeah, the steaks could not be
a lot for her, for her the stake, that's like
when That's how I liked the clash between them. Yeah,
because Alphabet's like, literally the world is burning down, like
(25:24):
it's so messed up out there, and she's like, dude,
just talk to him.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Yeah, you know, that's it's my wedding night.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Let's just go.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
She's like, I've got a dress up, what birds help
me get dressed?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I need to go, And even the wizards like, oh
hey again, security, nowhere can I just I'm actually just
realized why the beginning of the movie felt so jarring
to me. Now, it's because I think they did this
because they wanted the audience to not start on such
a heightened note. But in the top of the musical,
when Alphaba and Glinda come back together, they're a lot
angrier at each other and their remarks are a lot
(25:53):
more cutting, like when Alphabe really taunts Glinda for almost
accepting all of these different bribes. And in the stage
show version, which I know the movie you have to
watch it with different eyes, but sometimes I'm like, there's
a reason storytelling happens in a certain way in the
stage show where they're having that back and forth and
she's like, well, we kin'd all travel by bubble, and
in this she kind of says it with a bit
(26:13):
of an endeary like in the movie version, well we
kind of travel by bubble. Like It's such a subtle difference,
but yeah, it completely changes the tone of where these
characters are and what their relationship is to each other.
After that moment of your mental sort of think that
they had this big moment and then they both chose
different sides, and when they come back together, the tension
between it has.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Built, whereas that didn't happen in the movie.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Yeah, but I also found that very similar to even
the really really sad scenes. Like it's like the musical
was like extremes, yeah, and then the movie was also extremes,
but like on a level a bit below, and so
it wasn't as sad as it was still so sad,
but it wasn't as sad as a musical.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah, I think that is something that you kind of
just have to work into having a gear gap, because
you've got to think in a stage musical, you've been outside,
you've hopefully got another glass of wine, you've come back in,
you've had like thirty minutes, you're still in that really
heightened stage.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
So and you're so invested in the characters that whole time.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
And so when you come back in, you need the
character action on stage to match your height and emotions.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
And they have to like get your trust again.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, whereas in the movie he knows the audience is
coming out on that lower emotional level and we have
to build up together. So I kind of get it
that the bubble is such a metaphor for Glinda because
it's this floating symbol of her not being the thing
she wants to be, which she wants to be seen
as powerful, she wants to be seen as worthy, and
even though she's got that on the surface, she's still
(27:36):
hiding behind. Yeah, this trick that they've put in place.
And it's so interesting because John m chu said his
motivation for Glinda's character through this movie is like she's
got to pop her own bubble.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
She's got to pop her own bubble yea.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
And yes she does that physically when she pops the bubble,
But what his meaning is later on the movie, when
she pops the bubble for the last time, it's that
she's popping the bubble around her and this bubble of
perfection that she wanted and putting herself out into this
more realistic world.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
And even the bubble of safety. Right, And like when
you talk about it all the time in like MoMA
Miya House, sometimes we feel get that we do work
in a bubble and then we meet someone who's like
so opposite of us, especially, and we talked about this
a lot in dating. I'm literally like I forgot people
like this still exists. Yeah, and that's kind of like
what Glinda's doing, right, She's putting herself in the bubble
because you's refusing to see what's actually happening in the
(28:22):
world around her that she's like now the leader of Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Such a good point. And also, guys, guys, huge revelation.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
We wick it's a wicked assault, which I guess is
why they went so hard with the new song that
Ariana Grande sings in the movie, which is the girl
in the bubble beud with a beuiful life, such a beautiful.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Built tongue lies.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Now I'm gonna out myself as a betrayal of my religion.
My religion being Wicked, the musical, the songs, everything, because
as you know, I only listen to musical and Wicked
is my favorite musical of all time. I listened to
the soundtrack over and over again. And so every year
on Spotify, my top artist is Stephen Schwartz. That's not embarrassing,
just so you know, that's amazing. Stephen Schwartz, the original
(29:19):
composer of the Wicked musical. Yeah, a god among men
somewhere gave us to find gravity, games for good, gave
us popular Like what can this man not do except
to write your original song? Yeah, okay, so they had
to do it for the Oscar.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
That's it. That is what it feels like. So there
are two new songs in Wicked, which I.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Was No Place Like Home, Yes, and what was this
one called?
Speaker 3 (29:44):
So Cynthia Rivo sings no Place Like Home, which is
her new original song, and.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
You I'm the Wicked Witch of the West.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Ariana Grande sings the Girl in the Bubble, which is
her original song, both crafted by the man we were
listening like play good. I was like, well, just sing
popular again and I don't care. And so when I
first heard they were going to be two new songs,
I was like, oh my god, am I like to
get two new best friends in my life? Like that's
what it feels like, because the Wicked songs make up
my life and maybe I just had to listen to
(30:20):
them again and again and again. But these two new
original Wicked songs did not feel that they had earned
their place in this movie, is what I'll say to that.
And I think part of it John m Two, who
is my guiding light through all this, so that he
and Stephen Schwartz did this because they had more time
to fill. They had more space by making two movies,
and so they wanted to delve deeper into the backstories
(30:42):
of Alpha, Bart and Glinda, and they just started to
deal it with these two new original songs.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yeah. I wasn't a fan of the extra songs, not
because I didn't like the songs, but because I think
developing those characters would have been done better by a
spoken word like the film. Because even though this film
was shorter than the first film. I think it was
like thirty minutes. It felt like there were parts that like,
(31:09):
and I think it's the two songs I just dragged. Yeah,
and it made it drag. But also because these two
new songs made the film feel like it was dragging,
all the other bits that I really wanted them to
dive deep on felt rushed. Yes, Like all the like
multiple plot twists that happened in the end was just
like bam bam, bam, bam bam. And there were people
that we went with who hadn't actually seen the musical.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
I wish I could just erase the musical for a
moment to watch them, which is and I was excited.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
I was excited. I'm gonna out our video producer Michael.
He hadn't seen the musical, but he watched the first film,
and I was sitting next to him, so I was
excited to see his reaction for the plot twist. But
because they happened so so fast, it didn't actually give
him a time to register or react what was happening.
And that's not what I experienced when I watched the
musical at all. Yeah, the musical, the whole crowd would
be like, oh my god, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
No, no, I feel that so much. And one of
the reasons why these songs didn't work is because Wicked
is one of those rare, rare, rare musicals where even
though the songs are incredible, it's actually not about the songs.
You could take the songs out of Wicked and it
would still work as a story. I agree, because the
plot and the characters are so good, So every song
(32:21):
that's in there needs to really earn its place, and
the other songs all really earn their place, and I
feel like each song has when you think about I'm
not that girl, no good deed, was I really chasing
good or chasing attention? Like you have all these huge
moments and like forl good like a handprint on my heart,
my life has been to you know. They all move
(32:41):
the plot along in a really important way, and these
songs just felt like we were stepping into the characters
world to get a taste of where their mind was at.
And I was like, I was already there, Yeah, I
already got it. I get it, alphabet no place like
I move along go form love with your scarecrew man,
and what you're saying with the Oscars. It's like, I
know that every creative person invested in this film and
(33:05):
the years and years and years and years they spent
on it, I know that they wouldn't think this, But
what it comes across to us is the audience. It
feels like Oscar bait because the thing is like, they
can't be nominated for those original songs, and they can't
do a full performance unless they have these new songs
in the musical, and they wanted to give one to
Ariana and one to Cynthia, so they both have an
equal shot in that category, and so they will both
(33:26):
have a stronger shot in Best Supporting Actress, where we
know Ariana Grande is going, and Best Actress, where we
know Cynthia Reva was going.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
I want to talk about that, yes, because obviously know
that Cynthia is nominated for Best Actress and Ariana's Best
Supporting Actress. Yeah, this film didn't feel like arian I
was a supporting actress at all.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
A few people have brought that up because it's meant
to be Alphabet's story and it always sounded so weird.
Not that your opinion's wrong, but when I talk to
people after they've seen a stage show. And I've heard
so many people over the years be like, oh, the
Alphabet character was good, but she can't compare it to Glinda,
And I'm always just like, did we watch the same show.
It's Alphabet's story. She has the big powerful moment, she
(34:07):
has the plot twist, she has the best one liners,
like it's her movie. And they definitely added a lot
more in for Ariana Grande and the Glinda character this time.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
I didn't, but I didn't think about that for the musical.
I thought it was very much like what you said,
like Alphabet's story. But I definitely thought this part of
the movie, and even the first movie was alphabet story.
I definitely thought the second movie was Glinda's story.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
I guess it's the way they chose to open the movie,
which again is all new stuff that's been added in.
Is that the first movie opens with Alphabe's backstory as
a child, and then they cast a child to play
Glinda in the second movie, so you have flashbacks to her,
and I guess they do make more of her, like
stepping up into this leadership role, banishing Madam Morrible, all
these sorts of things.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
I guess they do lean into that more.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
I don't know. The thing is, they're running them in
different categories to give them a shot to win. I
hate when the politics of the oscars, which I love,
it's my main politics that I thought, not watch Wicked
exactly what happens when politics gets in the way. I
love the politics of the Oscars, but I do hate
when they encroach on my movie watching experience like they
did here, because it's like, I shouldn't be thinking about
the best actress race. I shouldn't be thinking about who
(35:15):
gets to perform best song first. I should be in
this world. And these songs pulled me out of it.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Yeah, but then I got pulled back in by some
of the best songs ever.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Pulled right back in.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
I think one of the things that works really well
is that I feel like some people will see Wicked
for Good and feel like it pales in comparison to
Wicked the first one, because it's a bit frothier, it's
a bit popular, it has a more natural beginning and
end in some ways, and people.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Know most of the songs in the first part.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Yes, which is crazy to me, because now that we're
in the meat of the second half, this is where
I think the good storytelling happens, and it doesn't just
happen in the crescendos of these big songs. And this
is where John and Chua, I'm like, give that man
an Oscar for directing. He knows that the biggest parts
of Wicked don't happen in the crescendos. He knows that
it happens in the quiet moments between songs. And that's
(36:04):
his best moment as a director, when he holds the
just on their faces in those really quiet moments and
we have those moments of betrayal we have. You know,
my favorite moment is in the movie. It's after Alpha
Bart and Glinda have had their fight next Tonessa Rosa's grease,
which is always one of my favorite scenes because the
physical comedy in that scene.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Such bad fighters.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
It's always I think about, like in Bridge Dones, like
that's how men would fight when they're just like half flitting,
half punched.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
I think that's what they studied Colin first.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Well, you're just like this is how you would fight.
You actually at the end of the day, you are.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
But two based on the girls such big dresses.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
And exactly, and Glinda is so tiny and other they're
just like so quite like a bit embarrassed for her.
Mostly it's just all so good that after that we
have pharo come in and say, Unhan that green girl,
which is always one of my favorite lines. When you
have that, and this is where Ariana Grande's acting is
so good, where you have that moment where Glinda's yelling
at the other guards and she's like leave him alonely
(37:08):
from alone, he loves her, and that's the first time
she'll ever admit to herself that he just loves her
and that there's no trickery, there's no betrayal in it's
like her real inquishing any kind of hate and just
couldn't be me, Sorry.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Couldn't be that of all, take it.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
In fact, bring more guts.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Okay, this is why you're the hero of the story.
And again Jonathan Bailey's acting. Also, where's his best actor,
oscar I hope it's coming for this role. Thing that
ends maybe where he is like I'm so sorry, I'm
so sorry, and I was like, this.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Is he said like two lines in the hole.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
It's the way he said that, Emily.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
It was so good. Just also a question, okay, so
you know.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
When he follows her back to so I'm jumping when
he follows her back to her next.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Yeah, away, Okay, let's get to that.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
And she's like singing about like pretty much having sex
with him. Yeah, and he's kind of looking around. I
had this's a technical thing for me. Then I get
really confused on musicals. Could he hear what you say?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Could hear? Yes? Okay, here's the rule of musicals is
whether other characters can hear the song or not is
there's always a very subtle light change, and there's always
a very subtle like the other characters if they're not
supposed to be part of the song, they'll turn their
heads slightly. So there is a part in As Long
as Your Mind where Fierius is sort of turned away,
(38:35):
So in that moment he can't hear her, but the
rest of the song they are singing together.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
So yes, answer my question.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
No, so he can't hear in the beginning, but he
hears her as a song.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Go as long does that make that hous interest? Like
you've been saying something it's like you talking about for me,
because that's why I'm here.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
It's kind of implied.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Okay, as long as your Mind I've got to say
is and this is why the next person who says
the second half of Wicked doesn't have any good songs,
I'm sorry. I'm not clock that person across the face.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
I remember being more sexier in the musical. Yeah, okay,
come on.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
It is one of the sexy songs you'll ever hear.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
The first time I saw it on stage with Rob Milsey,
and I've been in love with him, in love with
him ever since the first time I saw it on stage.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
I always like I have to look away. It's too much.
I feel like I'm watching people through like a bedroom
window or something. It is so sexy.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
And this is the time where sometimes less is more
because on stage it's actually one of the quietest songs
in Wicked. There's no big special effects, there's no background
actors or dancing. It's just most of that song is
the actress playing Alphabet and the actor playing Fierro, just
kneeling on the stage together, holding each other and singing
(39:47):
with their faces so close together. And it's just so
romantic and intimate. And I don't know if the movie
version captured that intimacy in the way I wanted. I
think Cynthia and Jonathan captured it in their expressions and
the way they touched each other, the way they kiss.
People are saying they have no chemistry. I don't believe
(40:07):
that's true.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
I don't think they have they have chemistry. No, explain yourself, Well,
when those scenes, you're meant to feel like, whoa, this
is amazing, I felt I was like, WHOA, I feel
like a pervert because like, I feel like these two
don't want me to witness anything that's sex and I
want you to watch it. Yeah, and I feel like
they were forced, like they were forced to do it.
But I also didn't think this was Jonathan Bailey's best
(40:30):
performance in general. Really yeah?
Speaker 2 (40:33):
What?
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Yeah? I loved him in the first movie.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Oh my God, the longing, the character development, the sorrow
and transformation he goes through, the self realization, the long
the yearning Emily.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
I wonder if like it just felt rushed for me,
like he didn't do it for me.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
I just think that that seed needed to be smaller,
and I think there's a few scenes that I think
didn't need to be a bit smaller. I understand John
m Chwu, I know we've got the budget. I know
we've got the money. I also know that he doesn't
care about my opinion, and I do think one of
the best things that the creative team for Wicked did
is just go away, film it all in one go.
And and John m chu I must always say his
full name. John m chwo said that the man trick
(41:11):
he had in his head for these movies was turn
your back to the audience and conduct the orchestra. So
don't think about what people like us are saying, don't
think about the fans, think about what the people in
front of you, the actors and the musicians, are doing,
and only focus on them. And I think that is
very good, not to let the noise in. But my
note for him, should he want to listen, is that
girl in the Bubble felt like you could barely see
(41:33):
Arianna Grunde and all those crazy set dressings and flashbacks
and everything like it overshadowed her. And I think the
same thing happened a little bit in as long as
your mind, because you're almost distracted by like you're saying
her hide away and then she's changing clothes and at
one stage they're flying.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Yeah, what the hell?
Speaker 2 (41:50):
I just yeah, I thought the best parts that somewhere
they were kind of just.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Because they're flying. It's sorry, do you remember that beer? Right, because.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Because he's got.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
She's holding him and he's but because they're in the air,
looks like she's lifting him.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Min she's holding him up.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Yeah, but like as it's like she's carrying him like
a baby. But it's only because he's taller than her.
And then they just started floating in that same height position.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
I mean it was really awkward, Like it was just
weird aggressive.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
We're so used to seeing like the superhero man come
in sweep the woman up and fly her around, and
now it's fear.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
That's what he needed, being flowing around the room.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
I thought the best part of that song when it
clearly closed in on just their faces together and you
saw them kiss and know that they just had great
sex after that, Yeah, which is a whole pleasure. No, No,
the whole point of those characters, the subtext of this
is that they have incredible sex throughout the whole thing.
And she's like, NESSA gotta go, yeah, and he's just
(42:51):
a bit like, oh, do I stay, do I go?
What do I do?
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Then he goes and find some monkeys.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Yeah, huge, huge moment for them, and then we're moving
into his transformation, which again is one of.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
The sorrowful parts of Wicked.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
In a way, it's also one of the biggest plot twists.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Yeah, And I know I'm saying negative about this movie,
which I must say I loved very much, But I
just don't when you're saying before about some plot twists
not being given the room they needed to grow and
the room they needed to be able to hit, what
a big reveal they are. I think his transformation was
one of them.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
His yeah, was one of them. It was like I
was actually quite disappointed in the reveal of his transformation
and then the actual reveal of his face on top
of that.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
I have never felt a collective screaming gasp around me.
And people weren't screaming and gasping because they didn't know
that Fierro turns into the scarecrow at the end. They
were screaming and gasping because they didn't know what his
face as a scarecrow would look like. Fear Crow as
people are calling him.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
It was not good. I can't even begin to explain it.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
It is.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
How would you sorry? How would you explain I'm sorry?
Speaker 2 (44:00):
At this stage, no it's okay. I'm trying to think
about how to explain it. At this stage of the movie,
I'm I'm openly weeping.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Your eyes are already blurred.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
I can barely see what's happening. So I didn't register
at first when I saw him exactly how you know what?
Speaker 1 (44:17):
He looked like Jonathan Bailey with like a snapchat filter
on his face.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
Yes, oh my god, that's it, Like.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Any of us could do that. That's like what we
would imagine. We were just doing it ourselves on a computer,
but all like on our phone.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
Yeah, but not.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
Yeah, I just for a movie that is so incredible.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
It looks like AI.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Yeah, I just think for a movie that's.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
So incredible, especially practical.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Especially because we saw The Tin Man before that and.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
That said the bar so high amazing.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Yeah, I think they should have done that with Jonathan Bailey,
like go for an ode for the original Scarecrow, like
the sack with the like the features. Yeah, and like
I don't know, he just it looked like a plastic
covering over his Yeah, it literally looked like a filter textured. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
It was weird.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
It looked like it was like, yes, but it was
just because.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
It's meant to be such a It is such a
powerful moment because also for most people in that theater,
and she has to.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Pretend to be like shocked and be like Fiera, and
I'm like, obviously, it's it anyone. It's not a Clark
and situation.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
We all know it's maybe. She was like, I want
to change my mind, like I'm tapping out, and I
was supposed to stay with you.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
For better or for worse.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Actually I think I'll be okay on my own.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Yeah you can. You're like, I'm just not that girl,
but no, I mean, look, I did cry it this
bit because it is so beautiful because on one hand,
you have the reveal that Alpha Burrow is alive and
that Fierra's fate is sealed, and it is this sadness,
but you kind of have this moment of knowing that
these two people who are so so deeply in love
(45:49):
have found each other and are going to walk away
together into this new world. And it's also interesting that
Alphabil was always seen as the outcast because of how
she looked, and now a man who was previously like
the ideal of beauty is now an outcast because how
he looked.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
It's like the individual.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
I was also like when I remember I watching the
musical when I was younger, and I was like, she
did that spell on purpose, she knew what she was doing.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
Oh my god, no good deed when she casts the spell.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Can I just say it's always one of my favorites
because it is again about talking about songs that have
to be earned to.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
Be in there.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
It is this moment where up until then, Alphabet has
this scene where she's almost an unattainable heroine for us
because she was like, I don't care about myself.
Speaker 3 (46:29):
I just care about the animals.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
I care about right and wrong, and I care about
nothing else, and like that's just not a human thing.
Everyone's actions were they're good about and motivated by something
for them. So when she talks about like did I
just want this because I wanted to prove I was special?
Do I wanted to prove I was the best? Did
I want the attention for this? And have I brought
this on myself? Is one of the best character developments,
(46:51):
I would say, in history. But it is so well done.
It's so perfectly done. It's so clever, and I think
that song encapsulates it so much. And you kind of
almost see the payoff of that song in this moment
where in that moment she knows that she has done
work for the greater good, but she also has to
live with the consequences of her actions, which is disfiguring
the man she loves so And what I thought maybe
(47:13):
was a little bit missed is that in the stage show,
not to always bring it back to that, but it's
such a huge plot point that he stumbles when they
try to walk away to go to this new life,
and she has to hold him and carry him. Is
this metaphor of her having to carry him for the
rest of their lives and look after him. And I
don't know how much of that was brought into the movie,
or maybe it was in a way I don't know.
(47:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
At that point, I was just laughing.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
I do think that their storyline came to a beautiful
end of the movie, and it did feel so urned.
I just wish they had spent a little bit of
time setting up him being the scarecrow and setting up
the stakes of that. And I guess that because you
see the tin men's face and the lead up, you
see the lion's face, you never see his face until
the end, and that's supposed to be a little wink
to the audience who doesn't know about what's coming. So
(47:57):
there is that. Okay, shall we get to the only
the real story, the real love story in Wicked, which
Gladder and Alphabet being that I did.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
Really tear up for is when they told each other
I love you behind the door.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
The thing about for Good is it is just, oh
my god, this is such a transformative song. And it's like,
I know that people listen to that song all the time,
and that people have listened to it in the movie,
in the stage show, and like myself, people listen to it.
But I also urge people to just sit down and
also just read the lyrics because the lyrics are so beautiful,
and it is, at the end of the day, a
(48:33):
love story between these two women, and this moment where
the kind of weight of the consequences of what they're
choosing to do, which is to be separated forever. Obviously
Glinda is not aware of what's going to happen, but
Alphabet does know. But the stakes in that moment are
so high.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
Yeah, because I feel like it's very obvious because Glinda
loves loudly and I feel like it's very obvious how
much love Glinda has for Alpha Biden. It's not as
obvious for Alphabek because she's much more reserved, But you
find out that her love is so great because she
doesn't give Glinda the choice. She makes a choice for
her by telling her that she's still alive because she
(49:09):
knows that Filna would just like follow her or like
bring her back. Yeah, and she does that for her.
And I think that's like the moment in the movie
where you're like, oh my god, yeah right am I right? Girls?
Speaker 2 (49:19):
So it is yeah, like it is this kind of
beautiful centering of this friendship that's you and me. It
would just be one hundred percent like us that moment
again about John and two knowing when to like really
hold in a moment and knowing when the quieter moments
are more important than the song. That moment where Alphaba
shuts her behind the door and the camera just holds
(49:41):
on them for so long, of each of them pressing
against the door and sobbing, and both of the actresses
had I mean, they're both incredible in this, but the
build up to that moment, especially because they shot the
movies back to back, and they both did all this
extensive work, Like Ariana Grande would come to set with
like all these notebooks with hundreds of pages of handwritten
(50:02):
notes so she would know emotionally where she was at
at each scene to appropriately build that moment. Cynthia River
had all these like sense memory tricks, like different perfumes
through different scenes, so she could always smell where she was,
like in Alphabet's Journey, and so she could differentiate. Because
the thing is, the way they react in this moment
is so different to how they react at the end
of the movie, and that when we see them say
(50:23):
goodbye and the moment they first became friends. And so
when you see them pushing of two sides of the
locked door, it's this idea that their friendship is severed forever,
but they're gonna hold onto this moment and it is
so beautiful and heartbreaking. Like that is when I was
like literally sobbing so hard that I actually thought I
might have to just like crawl into the floor.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
It was just so much. And also I think I
always thought it was odd when people like who's gonna
play Dorothy, Where's Dorothy gonna be?
Speaker 3 (50:51):
I'm like she's kept off screen for a reason.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
Yeah, similar to the musical, which is what I like.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
She's not part of this world, it's not.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
The interesting part is that you see it how it
weaves with m Yeah, the Wizard.
Speaker 2 (51:03):
Of Again is the magic Wicked of knowing it Like
how wonderfully secret backstory is set within the original story
that it's not meant to be Dorothy's story, So she
absolutely should not be on screen. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:13):
I would throw my popcorn the screen if i'd seen
her face. Really, Yeah, because you're not meant to That's
the whole point of it.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
And Dodo.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
And so those final moments I think where we see
Glinda kind of come into her power, we see her
pop the bubble that she lives in, and then we
see Alphabet make this choice that feels really earned. At
the end of she thought the most powerful thing she
could do was to be visible, but sometimes the most
powerful thing you can do is be invisible, and so
(51:42):
you see her make that choice and also get a
happy ending to an extent.
Speaker 3 (51:49):
There went to the other world.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
Yeah, whatever that was.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
Overall, I think I know that there's been mixed reviews
about Wicked for Good, but overall, I think it's an
incredible piece of filmmaking and storytelling.
Speaker 1 (52:01):
And I want to watch both of them now, back
to back.
Speaker 3 (52:03):
Let's do it right now.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Just that's all I want to do. So, oh we
we did it.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
Go cry by myself now because it's just God is
just the best thing of the whole world, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (52:15):
My grade is the best thing.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
Well, thank you so much for listening to this very special,
brudely honest review of Wicked. For good, do not forget that.
If you haven't listened to our briodlyan review of the
first Wicked film, please do. We'll put that in our
show notes as well. Maybe do it back to back.
Speaker 3 (52:31):
Yeah, that'll be like a double Wicked double feature.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
And if you're loving our podcast, please give us a
rating and review whichever app you're listening to. It really
really helps us.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
And spillers, you're going to love this. So for Black Friday,
Mamma Mia is giving you our biggest discount of the
year on a subscription. Right now, you can get twenty
one dollars off a yearly subscription, bringing it down to
just forty eight dollars for the whole year. That means
full access to world leading podcasts, Unmissible Stories, subscriber giveaways
(53:02):
and our Fitness at Move by Mma Mia. But it's
not forever, so don't miss it. If you want to
grab this deal, just head to link in our show
notes for all that goodness.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
The bill is produced by Benetias Where and would Sound
production by Scott's Stronik and we will see you next time.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
Bye bye, Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land.
We have recorded this podcast on the Gatigol people of
the eorination. We pay our respects to their elders past
and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and
(53:39):
Torres Strait islander cultures.
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com