December 1, 2025 • 31 mins
On the show today, we’ve witnessed one of the biggest comeback stories in reality TV land, with news of ‘villain’ Whitney Leavitt’s surprising new gig.
And Scarlett Johansson has been involved in a series of scandals and controversies over the years, even going so far as to say it’s what she’s known for. Now she’s doubled down on her opinion around a past controversy and what the fallout was for her.
Plus, Ed Sheeran has released some new music with a very personal message, with lyrics alluding to trouble in his marriage. Here’s what these lyrics really mean.
Read Scarlett Johansson's full interview here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
From Mamma Mia. Welcome to this bill, your daily pop
culture Fixed. I'm Laura Brodney and I'm Cassenni lu Kicch
and coming up on the show today, Scarlett Johansen has
revisited one of her biggest controversies and has brought that
back into the headline. She's not backing down on it,
so we're going to get into that and what the
fallout has been for her. And Ed Sharon has some
new music out and he's a notoriously private star, so
(00:39):
it's really interesting that he's given us a little bit
of insight into his marriage and his private life in
quite a dramatic way. So I actually have a special
guest coming on to help us decipher all that through
a musical lens. But first, some interesting news this morning.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Some musical news which is great for both of us.
Whitney Levitt, who was a semi finalist on Dancing with
the Stars and a star on Secret Lives of Mormon Wives,
is heading to Broadway in the role of Roxy Heart.
But in Chicago, name on everybody's lips is gone a Roxy.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
This is quite the redemption arc for her. I think
was really the feeling this morning when this news broke.
It was something like people thought it was coming. They'd
been whispers. But it's kind of like when everyone thought
Leah Michelle was going into the role of funny girl,
you like, yeah, that would be great for the narrative
arc that we're all talking about, but it's not gonna happen.
And then it did. So Whitney Levitt not someone I
was super across, I've got to say, until Dancing the Stars,
(01:38):
the US version recently became this huge thing. I knew
she was from the show. So she was part of
the Mumtalk group. I feel like you need a thesis
in like TikTok history to sort of be across them.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, so I'm weirdly across this for some reason. It
was on my all of last year. So Whitney Levitt
was a part of this Mormon Mumtalk group in Utah
in the States.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
And they sat together right by doing the dancers and
building a community and having this and they all had
huge following numbers.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yes, So the reason why Whitney got so much flat
was one of the dances she did. She was doing
a TikTok trend while her newborn son was on life
support in the hospital and she was like doing a
full TikTok dance, being like, I'm really worried about him,
and people were so flawed by the duxtaposition of like
(02:26):
someone doing a TikTok dance and something put series like
your kids being sick. So that was kind of where
a lot of people found out about her. She copped
it hard for that. Yes, then there was the whole
Swinger's scandal.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
And started right because I think that was the thing
on TikTok. And when Hulu announced they were making a
reality show, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, which is
about this group, that was kind of the anchor drama
for the first season.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, so it's this kind of really interesting pocket of
culture in Salt Lake City of these Mormon moms. Like so,
Mormons aren't allowed to drink alcohol or have coffee or anything.
So the thing that they kind of the work around
is they drink soda leaders of it. And there's this
big chain restaurant, Swig, and in Utah, the lines to
get a swig in the morning are longer than any
(03:13):
of the other lines. They have like one or two Starbucks.
There there's never a line at the Starbucks, but there's
always a massive line at Swig. They're obsessed with their sodas.
She was cast on Dancing with the Stars of this year,
and part of the reason she was getting this villain
edit is on The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives was
because she left the season and then came back part
way through.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
That was the whole thing of like, I'm going to
start my own mum talk and like Taylor Frankie Paul
and who's the leader and stuff like good luck.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
So the reason she came back, and she's admitted this,
was because she wanted to be cast on Dancing with
the Stars to further her career, which quite frankly, I
kind of respect because at least she's being honest about it.
So that's kind of a little bit of the backstory
with Whitney.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, so when she came on to Dance with the Stars,
she was always seen as the villain. People didn't like her,
people found her annoying, and I think she had like
a bit of a fan base from her own followers,
but she was very much introduced Dancing with Stars as
this kind of villain, and I think a lot of
people expected her to be voted off quite quickly or
for people to really turn against her. Unfortunately, that was
more of something that happened to Ilaria Baldwin. I mean,
(04:15):
Whitney still had her haters, but as they went along
each week in the dances, and she was partner with
Mark Ballas, who has been on the show for decades
but has taken time off over the years, so it
was a big deal that he was coming back dancing
with Whitney. And then every episode of Dancing with the
Stars has a different theme and each one people just
started to love her more and more one because she
was a great dancer. But that was the controversy as well.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
So she actually studied dance. She started modern neds at BYU,
which is Brigham Young University in Utah, and she studied dance.
So people thought it was kind of unfair because she
wasn't really a non professional. Yeah, but she's an amazing dancer.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, she's like I did more contemporary dance. She's like
and that's like, you know, waving your arms around and
like knowing how to position your body in a lyrical way.
And she's like dancing with a partner and doing ballroom
is so wildly different, which I kind of get. The
other thing is that Dancing with the Stars is not
a dancing show. Like if it was bless His Sweetheart,
if it was Robert Irwin, wouldn't have won because there
(05:12):
were much And that's the same every season. Like every season,
there's people who are great dancers and people who were
just really loved because it's a reality show. But he
wasn't bad, but he just wasn't the best dancer.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Yeah, So alex Ol obviously was runner up. She was
also very surprisingly that she was excellent. But Whitney she
got kicked off and everybody basically said, she's going to
go into Chicago and lo and behold. We found out
yesterday that she is going to be in Chicago as
roxy Heart. Now, Chicago is really well known for its
stunt casting. They have had so many different celebrities, particularly
(05:48):
in the role of roxy Heart. There's been like Erica Jane,
Pamela Anderson, Brandy did it one year. It's really really
common for this particular role to be stunt cast. Chicago's
like the longest running American musical of all time. It's
been on stage for over twenty nine years. I think
it's twenty nine years this year. And yeah, there's a
reason why Roxy is this stunt roll because it's a
(06:11):
little bit less technical than all the other roles.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Vocally, yeah, I know that's always a thing of like
Roxy's the showy one that you can push someone into
and Velma is meant to be the one with the
real vocal power, which I guess is true. Also, there's
this whole history of reality stars who are either having
redemption or having a moment like Ariana Maddix did it
up to the whole scandal all thing, and you can
see that Whitney was like really gunning for it behind
the scenes, and it's something that she talked about on
(06:36):
Call Her Daddy because we kind of felt it here
in Australia when she was voted off, just because I
think people watching the show that it seemed like this
huge disappointment and it seemed like people thought Whitney was
gonna win Dancing the Stars because she'd had this redemption
arc of being this incredible dancer and people who thought
they hated her from the show when they were watching her.
Because most of Dancing with the Stars is not just
the performance it's all the little packages behind the scenes
(06:59):
of people's like family and friends, or like in the
rehearsal room with them and where they process all their
trauma and stuff, and so a lot of people all
of a sudden change their minds about her. And so
when it looked like she was gonna win, that was
quite a big deal. And when she was voted out,
it felt very like she framed it when she want
to call her daddy that she felt like there had
been almost like a campaign of hate against her, like
(07:19):
similar to what Ilaria Balbine had said that people had
turned against her and voted her out, But she said
she was trying to get a Broadway role, that was
her dream. She's trying to book a movie role. I
think she has booked a like a part of movie.
So it's interesting to see someone make the jump from
like hated reality star who everyone kind of wrote off
to now being seen as like, like, I know, Chicago's
stunt casting, and still she was just still.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
A big deal. I'm not taking that away from her.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
They only to do that stunt casting if they think
that that person has a big enough drawer that people
will turn up and support them. Because That's the whole
thing with actresses talk about getting that Roxy Heart roll
in this particular Broadway setup is that it's whoever's name
is above in the lights is like that's the big
draw card. And so the only reason they've cast her
is they've seen the swell of support and they're like,
(08:03):
people will buy tickets to see Whitney Leavitt after her
whole Mumtop Mormon Lives drama.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah. Absolutely, And I mean we know that the famous
song Roxy Heart, the name on everybody's lips. You know,
I'm going to set my name up in lights. It
plays in really really well to that. I think she's
very good. I think she's very talented. Bizarre, bizarre backstory
and dancing. But you know what is interesting, I think
part of the reason as well that Dancing with the
Stars has hit us more here than in previous years
(08:30):
is that we're seeing it on TikTok. Now it's such
a perfect show for like that TikTok or algorithm, you know. Yeah, anyway,
she'll be doing a six week run if you want
to go see her. So from February second, twenty twenty six,
at the Ambassador Theater in New York, City Naa.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
So Scarlet Johnson has given a new interview to the
Telegraph because she has her directorial debut coming out soon,
so she's hot on the press trail for that. And
what's interesting at this interview with the Telegraph is that
they asked her about one of her biggest scandals. And
it's something that she, I guess could have shied away
from or could have kind of just given a very
throwaway comment and really diffuse the situation, but she chose
(09:09):
to really double down. And so I'm sure people are
seeing the headlines around today and just to give you
a little backstory about what that's all about. So she
was asked about an interview that she did in twenty
nineteen with the Hollywood Reporter when she was asked about
working with Woody Allen, who she's worked with many times
on many different movies, and they asked her if she
stood by her works this is back in twenty nineteen,
(09:30):
and why she chose to work with him, and she said,
I love Woody, I believe him, and I would work
with him anytime. She then went on to say in
the same interview, I see Woody whenever I can, and
I have a lot of conversations with him about it.
I've been very direct with him, and he's very direct
with me. He maintains his innocence and I believe him.
So when she's talking about innocence there, she's talking about
(09:52):
the case where Woody Allen, if any wasn't across hugely
influential director, an actor, but mostly a filmmaker, and many
many decades ago, was in a relationship with actress Mia Farrow,
and there were allegations that came out during when their
relationship was happening that he had sexually assaulted Dylan Farrow,
who is Mia Farrow's adopted daughter. This went through a
(10:15):
huge court case, there was many different interviews. Mia Farrow
and her family and her team have always stayed really
strong to this story. Dylan Farrow herself has given many
interviews written about it a lot, really claiming all the
things that she alleges that Woody Allan did to her.
Woody Allen, at the same time, has always denied any
of these things happened. He and Mia also broke up
(10:38):
when Mia Farah discovered naked photos of one of her
other adopted daughters, Sunyi, in Woody Allen's possession and he
was decades older than her and they are still in
a relationship to this day. So essentially he married his stepdaughter.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, and part of the reason this was sort of
reignited was around the Me Too movement back in twenty seventeen.
So Ronan Farrow, which is Mia Pharaoh's son, is also
a journalist and he was one of the journalists who
broke the me too stories and has been a very
big advocate for the Me Too movement and also a
(11:13):
big voice against his father, I guess against Woody Allen.
So in twenty nineteen, two years after Me Too, we've
got the Times Up. Do you remember when all the
celebrities going to the Oscars and Golden Globes and stuff
with times Up badgers encouraging people to stand up against
abuse in Hollywood? Scarlett Johansson had called out James Franco
(11:36):
for some of the allegations that were made against him.
Ronenvaro called out Scarlett Johansson for being a hypocrite. He wrote,
because if we've learned anything from the past two years,
it's that you definitely should believe male predators who maintain
their innocence without question. Scarlett has a long way to
go in understanding the issues she claims to champion. He's
(11:56):
publicly called her out. She stayed pretty strong on this again,
doubling down in this most recent interview. Which is why
people are a little bit confused by it, because is
it's something that a lot of celebrities in Hollywood, whether
they've worked with him or not, a very very vocal
about yes so.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
And I think an important caveat around the whole Woody
Allen's story and the accusations that have come from Dylan
Farah and Mere Pharaoh and their wider family is that
when a lot of people see these storylines around Woody
Allen or these headlines, they say, oh, but he was
found innocent, and it's not true. He wasn't actually found innocent.
There just wasn't enough evidence for the court case to proceed,
(12:34):
which with stories like this is often the case. It's
so hard to get someone like this to court because
you have to have so much evidence and obviously a
lot of these allegations that come with sexual assault, and
with these sorts of stories like it is often witness testimony,
and it's even harder to get a conviction. That's like
this whole thing when they talk about people lying, it's like, well,
(12:56):
the stats show us that, like, it's not so much
lying all that people are found innocent. It's more so
that it's such a hard thing to get through a
court case. So I think it's an important caveat that
he didn't go through a court case and was found innocent.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
And we also need to remember this is back in
nineteen ninety two that these allegations were made and it
was a child Protective Services inquiry initially, so there's a
couple of issues around that and complexities around that. So
that's kind of the clux of it.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
And so that became a big part of this interview
with Scarlett Johansson in The Telegraph because she has directed
her first movie, Ellen All the Great June Scubba is
the lead of it. It's something that Scarlet's really been
championing behind the scenes for many years about wanting to
make this movie and wanting to move more into being
a director and champion certain stories, and that's why she's
really on the press tour for it. And so in
(13:42):
this interview she was asked about working with Woody Allen.
So she worked with him on match Point, which came
out in two thousand and five, Scoop which came out
in two thousand and six, and then Vicki Christina Barcelona
in two thousand and nine. These movies were all critically acclaimed,
but Vicky Christina Barcelona in particular Penelope Cruise one in Oscar.
It was nominated for so many things. It was really
(14:02):
the scene as like this turning point of really cementing
Scarlett Johanson as a dramatic actress. And so she was
asked about how she had handled the online anger towards her,
about siding with Woody Allen, and if there had been
any consequences. So in this article, Scarlet says, I guess
it's hard to know. You never know what the domino
effect is. But my mum always encouraged me to be
(14:25):
myself and to see what's important to have integrity and
to stand up what you believe in. And then she
went on to say, at the same time, I think
it's also important to know when it's not your turn.
I don't mean that you should silence yourself. I mean
sometimes it's just not your time, and that's something I've
understood as I've matured.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
I do think it's interesting that she says that last
part because she's doing the exact opposite of that.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
I think there's a few layers to what she said there.
One is that Scarlet Johansen has always had quite a
lot of controversy around her, but she is quite an
untouchable movie star in many ways that she is consistently
the highest paid actress in Hollywood for many years. A
lot of that is to do obviously with being in Marvel,
but she also, like any of her controversies over the years,
(15:11):
haven't stopped her from like starting her skincare business or
directing movies, and she is someone in Hollywood that, apart
from Ronan Pharoh and like probably James Franco, who's been
very much canceled, she is someone who, like a lot
of other celebs, rally around in ways that haven't happened
for other celebrities who have had some of these controversies.
So I think that that's kind of interesting that she
(15:31):
kind of is talking from a place of safety, knowing
that no matter what she says, she's going to maintain
that ability to make money and be beloved and get
Jewel Oscar nominations.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
The article also covers a number of those other controversies.
It's quite a meaty article. I mean they talk about,
you know, suing Disney for the Black Widow release. She
is not free from controversy.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, I think she came out of the Disney thing
quite well, though probably not in Disney's eyes. But again,
she's such like a big name that they can't touch her.
I think a lot of people were just like, yeah,
get that money kind of thing. A lot of the
other controversies are to do with casting and diversity. So
when she was cast in Ghosts in a Shell, there
was a lot of anger about a white woman in
what should have been a Japanese role. And then instead
(16:11):
of kind of acknowledging that, which she did a little bit,
she did a lot of interviews about it. That's the thing, like,
if you ask her, and I kind of respect that
a little bit, if you ask her, she'll just answer
and give her thoughts. Again, it's coming from a place
of safety. But she was like, I would never take
a role away from anyone else. I would never play
anything that I wasn't supposed to play. But she's like,
I can't believe you people aren't celebrating a woman being
(16:32):
in this iconic role and staid making it about race,
and then she said something that was quite unfortunate. She's like,
if I want to play a tree or play a tree,
and everyone's.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Like, Oh, that's not the it's not the way to
don't comple.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
And this is coming after the reaction to Ghosts in
a Shell, where she was cast in the role of
a transgender man in the movie Rub and Tug, and
this was a huge issue because a lot of people
were like, a straight white woman in particular playing that
role is taking that role away from other actor, and
especially when transgender actors in Hollywood usually don't get to
(17:05):
not even play characters that are for them, but get
to play characters in many different ways across movies and
TV shows. And she released a statement at the time
because this was a huge uproar and it was one
of those things that just it picked up across Twitter,
it picked up across Facebook and Instagram and all of
these things, and instead of having conversation about it, Scarlet
Johansson doubled down. She put out a statement that said,
(17:26):
for anyone who's upset about this, tell them. They can
be directed to Jeffrey Tamball, Jared Leto and Felicity Huffman's
reps for comment. Obviously all straight actors who have played
transgender characters in the past. I guess her point was
they were all critically acclaimed, they won awards, they got
pay a lot of money for playing these transgender characters.
And then her point was, and now I'm doing it
and I'm getting ripped apart. But the sentiment was that
(17:48):
times had just changed. She did pull out of that movie, though.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Well, if we're talking about the last twenty years of Hollywood,
it's changed significantly in terms of not casting straight people
in gay roles to give those people an opportunity to
be the stars, which is why Pose was such a
huge hit, because it hired all transactors in the roles
and it was really critically acclaimed. But yeah, I think
(18:13):
she's just trying to sort of back out of that one.
But I just feel like she has gotten away with
saying certain things. I understand why she's trying to stick
up for him, because she respects him, she likes his work,
she is friends with him. But I do think it's
important to look at like the actual facts of the matter.
(18:34):
And she says, oh, but I believe him, Well, do
you not believe the other people?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah, it's interesting that Woody Allen and who supports him
and who doesn't has become like the biggest line in
the sand for people in Hollywood. And for a while there,
it's like the whole thing of like, Woody Allen makes
one movie a year, and everyone wanted to be in
it because if you're like a Kate Blanchet or something,
you definitely win an oscar for it. And it had
this built in audience. So like that was the whole thing,
(19:00):
is like Woody Allen makes one movie a year, everyone
wants to be in it, Everyone will go see it,
it will win Oscars. And it was this pattern. And
then as time went on and people started to delve
more into Dylan Farrow's accusations and the Me two movement happened,
and times up, and that's when Hollywood started to fall
a little bit out of favor with Woody Allen. And
now you know, even he has said that he struggles
to get distribution for his movies, and there have been
(19:22):
a lot of really big celebrities who have worked with
him in the past who have come out and said
they deeply regret it. So like Michael Kaine has Greta Girlwig,
has Colin Firth, has Timothy Shallaman, Timothy Charmain Rebecca Hall
both donated the fees from the movie they worked on
because they said they felt bad about taking money from it.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Blake Lively did actually work with him, and when she
was asked about him, she was very, very evasive. She
didn't actually answer. She's like, oh, I don't know much
about it. I'm just gonna leave it. And Kate Blanchett
actually did the same thing too. There's kind of the
celebrities that will dance around it, definitely not defending him,
but then also not supporting him.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah, it's interesting. I've struggled with that over the years
because I'm someone who has called out people like in
like my writing, people like Blake Lively who want to
be in the big movie and want to wear the
pretty dresses. It can't. But then when it comes to
being asked about Woody Allen has gotten quite upset with
journalists and said like, it's nothing to do with me,
and like sometimes I've called them out, but then I've
also backtracked and been like, oh, why am I attacking
(20:22):
this young woman for what this man has done, but
it's a complicated situation. And then you have people like
Kristian Stewart, who was in Cafe Society with Blake Lively
and that was the kind of one of the last
big Woody Allen movies when everyone was like, yeah, we're
all in on this. So I understand why they did
it in a way. And I usually agree with Christian
Sewan on most of what she says, but I sort
of had to sit with what she said about working
(20:43):
with Woody Allen because she said that she was wrestling
with it when she signed on for the movie, which
I find interesting because that means I'm like, so you
knew about everything, Yeah, you were in the depths of it.
And then she said that she talked with Jesse Eisenberg
about it, and she came to the idea that she's like,
a lot of what people have said about me is
not true. And if I thought someone I was working
with believed everything, that would be really upsetting for me.
(21:06):
Because she's like, I know a lot of lies are
printed about me, and so I can't not work with
someone just because things have been printed about them. And
I was a bit like, I don't know about that's
not quite the Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
It's not illegal though the things that they're lying about.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Yeah, it's not a morally brumer.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Yeah, there's a big difference between a rumor and sexual
assault allegations and c SAM like, it's it's very, very different.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I think one of the best responses, especially giving space
to someone to change their mind as they get older
and they work more is Kate Winslow, because she did
a Woody on movie and there was quite a bit
of backlash at the time, and she was like, no, no, no,
I had a wonderful experience working with him. It was
so great, was so professional. I've never felt so creatively challenged.
I'm not getting into this. And then years later she
(21:51):
had a complete turnaround and she said, what the fuck
was I doing working with Woody Allen and Roman Polanski?
The Roman plans give it all is actually wild. I
was like, yeah, girl, what were you doing? She said,
it's unbelievable to me now how these men were held
in such high regard so widely in the film industry
and for as long as they were. It's fucking disgraceful.
(22:11):
And then she said, I had to take responsibility for
the fact that I work with them.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Both.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
I can't turn back the clock. I'm grappling with those regrets.
But what do we do if we can't just be
fucking truthful about it all? And the whole thing is like,
I don't I don't dislike Scarlet Johanson for this. I
also don't think it's not my place to dislike her.
One part of me thinks that, like she really believes
that he's innocent, and she really believes in Woody Allen,
and so I respect her a little bit for being
(22:36):
one of the few people in Hollywood to actually say
what she thinks. But on the other hand, like she
said herself that she's made a career out of being controversial,
which I think if you said the name Scarlet Johanson,
no one would think she's contra scary under the writ
born actress who just kind of yeah, does say a
lot of wrong things, but like at the end of
(22:57):
the day, she's very protected from it. Also, when she
talks about and when she talks about building her career
on controversy, I was like, just I don't think that's true,
because if you career was built on controversy, you wouldn't
have all these huge opportunities that you have, and you
wouldn't have all these get out of jail free passes,
and you wouldn't be able to say whatever you want
an interview place of safety, knowing that people will still
buy your skincare. People are very invested in your marriage
(23:20):
to like your comedian husband, people are very invested in
your return to like the Marvel Cinematic universe. And I
just think it's very Yeah, it's not exactly a clear
cut situation. Well, we'll link the full interview that she
did with the Telegraph and the show notes, because you know,
if you want to sort of read her full statement
and sort of look into that yourself, it is an
interesting read.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Nana nanaa et Suran has released an additional thirteen songs
for his deluxe album play So to talk about this
and all of those new songs, we have the wonderful
Bree Player here. She's the executive producer of Mamma MIA's
interview podcast No Filter, and she's interviewed ed Shuran, She's
interviewed a number of other music artists, and she's a
(24:00):
wonderful wealth of knowledge. Bra Are you gonna help us
out today? Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
So? Ed has done the deluxe version of Play. So
the album that he released back in September, he's done
a re release deluxe, which is very popular with musicians
these days, and on it are fourteen new tracks, and interestingly,
the famously private Ed Seron has hinted to some troubles
within his marriage to Cherry.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
This is something that surprised me the most is because
you know, we know artists write about their love lives
all the time, they use it as inspiration, but Ed
has been so private about Cherry, especially Cherry and their kids.
Actually Laura, Laura's really good a celebrity kids.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Now I know those children's names, you don't know their name.
He never talks about them. I know, I know every
other slub child's name. But I think that goes to
show just how private Ed Sharon is is. Like, we
don't know a huge amount about his family. We know
that they have two kids together, right, two they've been
like do you know their name?
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
And Jupiter. Oh. I actually did know it was Larra
because they named her from that famous book series. So
that's the golden compass.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yes, it's Lyra Antuctica Seaborn Schurin.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
That's a great name. I know he and cherry like.
They have done some kind of promo not promo stuff together,
but they have talked about their relationship and how in
love they are over the years. My biggest memory of
him is that he said that he kind of almost
like set a test for her when they started dating,
when he would take her to parties and kind of
just like purposely leave her alone in the room when
he was becoming like very very famous, to see if
(25:29):
she could go and look after herself and and kind
of stand on her own, so that he knew she
could stand by his side through the fame, which I
always felt like a bit. Yeah, it's brutal right, I
don't know how. I don't doubt me, but she passed.
But she obviously passed. So the pair have been married
now since twenty nineteen. And yeah, they are famously private.
(25:50):
She is so low key. You don't see her at places.
I mean, look, he's quite low key as well, Like
he famously doesn't have a phone. Yeah, so so it's
hard to reach. He definitely grapples with fame, and I
think he's been very open about that and the way
that he guards that. To me, he's a musician who
wants to be a musician. He doesn't want to be
(26:12):
a celebrity, right, but he just happens to write massive,
massive hits and do these massive tours.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Yeah. So one of the song's problems is the song
that kind of really sparked people. So lyrics are flowers
in our garden are dying? When did the water run dry?
Who can tell? But you want the truth, We're not fine.
And I feel like that's very very honest.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah, it's so honest. I mean it's like, for Ed,
we always hear him writing these incredible love songs, right,
I mean, so many people have had Ed sheeran romantic
love songs at their wedding. He's very good at expressing
his emotion, but we normally hear it from the other
side of it. So to hear this is really interesting
(26:54):
and to hear him say, to compare it to flowers
that are dying. But I mean, you're married, right, you
know that, like a marriage takes work.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
That's why I think I quite like it because a
lot of people have really latched onto the troubles that
they're having. But there are a number of other songs
in it that talk about how much he still loves
her and how much he wants to put the work in. Absolutely,
I don't think it's like a rift in the relationship
it's going to end. No, it's just a very honest
analysis of like what it's actually like to be in
(27:24):
a relationship when you've got two small children.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Absolutely, And I think what people forget as well as
that artists write these songs and then they release them
a year later.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Right, So what's he.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Singing about right now in these new tracks aren't necessarily
effective of what's happening in their relationship now, it's reflective
of what was happening at the time that he wrote it,
or you know, leading into the time that he wrote it.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Now.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I chatted with Ed Cheeran back in July ahead of
like when he was doing promo for announcing his Australian tour.
So he's coming here next year in feb and he'll
be here all month touring around Australia. Now, he was
happy talking about his family, you know, not delving into
the nitty gritty. But first thing he did was bring
(28:09):
up his daughters. He talked about Cherry, talked about her warmly.
He talked about how she's like the grounding person in
his life. And definitely like still is and has always been.
But when an artist is on the road for months
and months and months at a time, and sometimes like
their tours will go for a year, year and a half,
two years, like it puts a strain.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
And let's not forget that Cherry was diagnosed with brain
cancer when she was pregnant with their second daughter, and
we saw a little bit of that in that documentary
that he did, so you know, he kind we saw
a little bit of a glimpse into it. So you know,
he's got two kits, a wife, he travels on stop.
His wife is she's better now, She's okay, but a
bit a very stressful few years. It was a quote
(28:52):
I found earlier on in the year he in a
Q and a session at Spotify HQ. He said, Cherry
knows I write about everything, not just the good stuff.
Songs like perfect exist, but so do the ones about
real conflict that's part of any relationship. And I think
it's important to be honest about it.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah, absolutely, And I think that's what we're saying here.
What I do find really interesting with the songs that
he's added and the delatse is that they're the ones
that delve into these marriage issues. It's interesting that they
weren't on the original album, and I think he did that.
I think it's very much on purpose. I don't think
Ed cares about Colin Inch's and headlines. I don't think
(29:30):
that this is trying to get those songs out there.
I don't think he actually cares about that. I think
he's at a stage in his career where he's writing
the songs he wants to do. He's exploring different things musically.
We've got some Eastern influences on this album, which is
him trying different things. Yeah, exactly, and Sapphire, and he
(29:51):
wants to kind of explore different areas as an artist
and not really care about whether he's getting number ones
and things like that. Now he doesn't have anything left
to prove, so I think he knew that by holding
back these songs rather than releasing them straight away, meant
that the music that he was proud of and the
music that he wanted to put out there got to
exist on its own before the headlines and the news
(30:15):
came out about is their marriage issues there?
Speaker 1 (30:18):
I have one more question for you. Yeah, you know so,
Ed is very famous for doing all of his album
titles are part of this maths equation. We've got equals,
We've got we've got play, we've got divide. What's he
going to do once he runs out Pie Pi?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I don't do PI do pie. Maths is not my
strong suit, So look is.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
The wrong room to be asking? Yeah, but I love
the theme. You know, Adele did the twenty one, she
did twenty nineteen, all of that. But I feel like
he's really got a great thing here. He does.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
This tour is called the Loop Tour. Ooh, maybe it's
like an infinity an infinity so it's just yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Anyway, so as you're in playing in Australia next.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Year, playing in Australia next year.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
He's a good boy.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
He hits everyone, he makes sure that everyone gets to
Sam and he always plays a stadium and he'll be
here all through fab and into the beginning of March.
So look, it'd be interesting to see if he opens
up a little bit when talking on stage, and whether
he even sings these tracks because they are on the
Deluxe so he may not.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Thanks so much for listening today, guys, make sure you're
following this bill on TikTok and Instagram. We love chatting
with you. We'll be back here in your feed tomorrow
morning at seven am with Morning Tea hosted by the
wonder Lush London. This bill is produced by Minisha is
Warren with sound production by Scott's Stronik.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Bye Bye, Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land.
We have recorded this podcast on the Gatigor people of
the eorination. We pay our respects to their elders past
and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and
(31:59):
Torres Strait Islander cultures.
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
From Mamma Mia. Welcome to this bill, your daily pop
culture Fixed. I'm Laura Brodney and I'm Cassenni lu Kicch
and coming up on the show today, Scarlett Johansen has
revisited one of her biggest controversies and has brought that
back into the headline. She's not backing down on it,
so we're going to get into that and what the
fallout has been for her. And Ed Sharon has some
new music out and he's a notoriously private star, so
(00:39):
it's really interesting that he's given us a little bit
of insight into his marriage and his private life in
quite a dramatic way. So I actually have a special
guest coming on to help us decipher all that through
a musical lens. But first, some interesting news this morning.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Some musical news which is great for both of us.
Whitney Levitt, who was a semi finalist on Dancing with
the Stars and a star on Secret Lives of Mormon Wives,
is heading to Broadway in the role of Roxy Heart.
But in Chicago, name on everybody's lips is gone a Roxy.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
This is quite the redemption arc for her. I think
was really the feeling this morning when this news broke.
It was something like people thought it was coming. They'd
been whispers. But it's kind of like when everyone thought
Leah Michelle was going into the role of funny girl,
you like, yeah, that would be great for the narrative
arc that we're all talking about, but it's not gonna happen.
And then it did. So Whitney Levitt not someone I
was super across, I've got to say, until Dancing the Stars,
(01:38):
the US version recently became this huge thing. I knew
she was from the show. So she was part of
the Mumtalk group. I feel like you need a thesis
in like TikTok history to sort of be across them.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, so I'm weirdly across this for some reason. It
was on my all of last year. So Whitney Levitt
was a part of this Mormon Mumtalk group in Utah
in the States.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
And they sat together right by doing the dancers and
building a community and having this and they all had
huge following numbers.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yes, So the reason why Whitney got so much flat
was one of the dances she did. She was doing
a TikTok trend while her newborn son was on life
support in the hospital and she was like doing a
full TikTok dance, being like, I'm really worried about him,
and people were so flawed by the duxtaposition of like
(02:26):
someone doing a TikTok dance and something put series like
your kids being sick. So that was kind of where
a lot of people found out about her. She copped
it hard for that. Yes, then there was the whole
Swinger's scandal.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
And started right because I think that was the thing
on TikTok. And when Hulu announced they were making a
reality show, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, which is
about this group, that was kind of the anchor drama
for the first season.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, so it's this kind of really interesting pocket of
culture in Salt Lake City of these Mormon moms. Like so,
Mormons aren't allowed to drink alcohol or have coffee or anything.
So the thing that they kind of the work around
is they drink soda leaders of it. And there's this
big chain restaurant, Swig, and in Utah, the lines to
get a swig in the morning are longer than any
(03:13):
of the other lines. They have like one or two Starbucks.
There there's never a line at the Starbucks, but there's
always a massive line at Swig. They're obsessed with their sodas.
She was cast on Dancing with the Stars of this year,
and part of the reason she was getting this villain
edit is on The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives was
because she left the season and then came back part
way through.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
That was the whole thing of like, I'm going to
start my own mum talk and like Taylor Frankie Paul
and who's the leader and stuff like good luck.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
So the reason she came back, and she's admitted this,
was because she wanted to be cast on Dancing with
the Stars to further her career, which quite frankly, I
kind of respect because at least she's being honest about it.
So that's kind of a little bit of the backstory
with Whitney.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, so when she came on to Dance with the Stars,
she was always seen as the villain. People didn't like her,
people found her annoying, and I think she had like
a bit of a fan base from her own followers,
but she was very much introduced Dancing with Stars as
this kind of villain, and I think a lot of
people expected her to be voted off quite quickly or
for people to really turn against her. Unfortunately, that was
more of something that happened to Ilaria Baldwin. I mean,
(04:15):
Whitney still had her haters, but as they went along
each week in the dances, and she was partner with
Mark Ballas, who has been on the show for decades
but has taken time off over the years, so it
was a big deal that he was coming back dancing
with Whitney. And then every episode of Dancing with the
Stars has a different theme and each one people just
started to love her more and more one because she
was a great dancer. But that was the controversy as well.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
So she actually studied dance. She started modern neds at BYU,
which is Brigham Young University in Utah, and she studied dance.
So people thought it was kind of unfair because she
wasn't really a non professional. Yeah, but she's an amazing dancer.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, she's like I did more contemporary dance. She's like
and that's like, you know, waving your arms around and
like knowing how to position your body in a lyrical way.
And she's like dancing with a partner and doing ballroom
is so wildly different, which I kind of get. The
other thing is that Dancing with the Stars is not
a dancing show. Like if it was bless His Sweetheart,
if it was Robert Irwin, wouldn't have won because there
(05:12):
were much And that's the same every season. Like every season,
there's people who are great dancers and people who were
just really loved because it's a reality show. But he
wasn't bad, but he just wasn't the best dancer.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Yeah, So alex Ol obviously was runner up. She was
also very surprisingly that she was excellent. But Whitney she
got kicked off and everybody basically said, she's going to
go into Chicago and lo and behold. We found out
yesterday that she is going to be in Chicago as
roxy Heart. Now, Chicago is really well known for its
stunt casting. They have had so many different celebrities, particularly
(05:48):
in the role of roxy Heart. There's been like Erica Jane,
Pamela Anderson, Brandy did it one year. It's really really
common for this particular role to be stunt cast. Chicago's
like the longest running American musical of all time. It's
been on stage for over twenty nine years. I think
it's twenty nine years this year. And yeah, there's a
reason why Roxy is this stunt roll because it's a
(06:11):
little bit less technical than all the other roles.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Vocally, yeah, I know that's always a thing of like
Roxy's the showy one that you can push someone into
and Velma is meant to be the one with the
real vocal power, which I guess is true. Also, there's
this whole history of reality stars who are either having
redemption or having a moment like Ariana Maddix did it
up to the whole scandal all thing, and you can
see that Whitney was like really gunning for it behind
the scenes, and it's something that she talked about on
(06:36):
Call Her Daddy because we kind of felt it here
in Australia when she was voted off, just because I
think people watching the show that it seemed like this
huge disappointment and it seemed like people thought Whitney was
gonna win Dancing the Stars because she'd had this redemption
arc of being this incredible dancer and people who thought
they hated her from the show when they were watching her.
Because most of Dancing with the Stars is not just
the performance it's all the little packages behind the scenes
(06:59):
of people's like family and friends, or like in the
rehearsal room with them and where they process all their
trauma and stuff, and so a lot of people all
of a sudden change their minds about her. And so
when it looked like she was gonna win, that was
quite a big deal. And when she was voted out,
it felt very like she framed it when she want
to call her daddy that she felt like there had
been almost like a campaign of hate against her, like
(07:19):
similar to what Ilaria Balbine had said that people had
turned against her and voted her out, But she said
she was trying to get a Broadway role, that was
her dream. She's trying to book a movie role. I
think she has booked a like a part of movie.
So it's interesting to see someone make the jump from
like hated reality star who everyone kind of wrote off
to now being seen as like, like, I know, Chicago's
stunt casting, and still she was just still.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
A big deal. I'm not taking that away from her.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
They only to do that stunt casting if they think
that that person has a big enough drawer that people
will turn up and support them. Because That's the whole
thing with actresses talk about getting that Roxy Heart roll
in this particular Broadway setup is that it's whoever's name
is above in the lights is like that's the big
draw card. And so the only reason they've cast her
is they've seen the swell of support and they're like,
(08:03):
people will buy tickets to see Whitney Leavitt after her
whole Mumtop Mormon Lives drama.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah. Absolutely, And I mean we know that the famous
song Roxy Heart, the name on everybody's lips. You know,
I'm going to set my name up in lights. It
plays in really really well to that. I think she's
very good. I think she's very talented. Bizarre, bizarre backstory
and dancing. But you know what is interesting, I think
part of the reason as well that Dancing with the
Stars has hit us more here than in previous years
(08:30):
is that we're seeing it on TikTok. Now it's such
a perfect show for like that TikTok or algorithm, you know. Yeah, anyway,
she'll be doing a six week run if you want
to go see her. So from February second, twenty twenty six,
at the Ambassador Theater in New York, City Naa.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
So Scarlet Johnson has given a new interview to the
Telegraph because she has her directorial debut coming out soon,
so she's hot on the press trail for that. And
what's interesting at this interview with the Telegraph is that
they asked her about one of her biggest scandals. And
it's something that she, I guess could have shied away
from or could have kind of just given a very
throwaway comment and really diffuse the situation, but she chose
(09:09):
to really double down. And so I'm sure people are
seeing the headlines around today and just to give you
a little backstory about what that's all about. So she
was asked about an interview that she did in twenty
nineteen with the Hollywood Reporter when she was asked about
working with Woody Allen, who she's worked with many times
on many different movies, and they asked her if she
stood by her works this is back in twenty nineteen,
(09:30):
and why she chose to work with him, and she said,
I love Woody, I believe him, and I would work
with him anytime. She then went on to say in
the same interview, I see Woody whenever I can, and
I have a lot of conversations with him about it.
I've been very direct with him, and he's very direct
with me. He maintains his innocence and I believe him.
So when she's talking about innocence there, she's talking about
(09:52):
the case where Woody Allen, if any wasn't across hugely
influential director, an actor, but mostly a filmmaker, and many
many decades ago, was in a relationship with actress Mia Farrow,
and there were allegations that came out during when their
relationship was happening that he had sexually assaulted Dylan Farrow,
who is Mia Farrow's adopted daughter. This went through a
(10:15):
huge court case, there was many different interviews. Mia Farrow
and her family and her team have always stayed really
strong to this story. Dylan Farrow herself has given many
interviews written about it a lot, really claiming all the
things that she alleges that Woody Allan did to her.
Woody Allen, at the same time, has always denied any
of these things happened. He and Mia also broke up
(10:38):
when Mia Farah discovered naked photos of one of her
other adopted daughters, Sunyi, in Woody Allen's possession and he
was decades older than her and they are still in
a relationship to this day. So essentially he married his stepdaughter.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, and part of the reason this was sort of
reignited was around the Me Too movement back in twenty seventeen.
So Ronan Farrow, which is Mia Pharaoh's son, is also
a journalist and he was one of the journalists who
broke the me too stories and has been a very
big advocate for the Me Too movement and also a
(11:13):
big voice against his father, I guess against Woody Allen.
So in twenty nineteen, two years after Me Too, we've
got the Times Up. Do you remember when all the
celebrities going to the Oscars and Golden Globes and stuff
with times Up badgers encouraging people to stand up against
abuse in Hollywood? Scarlett Johansson had called out James Franco
(11:36):
for some of the allegations that were made against him.
Ronenvaro called out Scarlett Johansson for being a hypocrite. He wrote,
because if we've learned anything from the past two years,
it's that you definitely should believe male predators who maintain
their innocence without question. Scarlett has a long way to
go in understanding the issues she claims to champion. He's
(11:56):
publicly called her out. She stayed pretty strong on this again,
doubling down in this most recent interview. Which is why
people are a little bit confused by it, because is
it's something that a lot of celebrities in Hollywood, whether
they've worked with him or not, a very very vocal
about yes so.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
And I think an important caveat around the whole Woody
Allen's story and the accusations that have come from Dylan
Farah and Mere Pharaoh and their wider family is that
when a lot of people see these storylines around Woody
Allen or these headlines, they say, oh, but he was
found innocent, and it's not true. He wasn't actually found innocent.
There just wasn't enough evidence for the court case to proceed,
(12:34):
which with stories like this is often the case. It's
so hard to get someone like this to court because
you have to have so much evidence and obviously a
lot of these allegations that come with sexual assault, and
with these sorts of stories like it is often witness testimony,
and it's even harder to get a conviction. That's like
this whole thing when they talk about people lying, it's like, well,
(12:56):
the stats show us that, like, it's not so much
lying all that people are found innocent. It's more so
that it's such a hard thing to get through a
court case. So I think it's an important caveat that
he didn't go through a court case and was found innocent.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
And we also need to remember this is back in
nineteen ninety two that these allegations were made and it
was a child Protective Services inquiry initially, so there's a
couple of issues around that and complexities around that. So
that's kind of the clux of it.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
And so that became a big part of this interview
with Scarlett Johansson in The Telegraph because she has directed
her first movie, Ellen All the Great June Scubba is
the lead of it. It's something that Scarlet's really been
championing behind the scenes for many years about wanting to
make this movie and wanting to move more into being
a director and champion certain stories, and that's why she's
really on the press tour for it. And so in
(13:42):
this interview she was asked about working with Woody Allen.
So she worked with him on match Point, which came
out in two thousand and five, Scoop which came out
in two thousand and six, and then Vicki Christina Barcelona
in two thousand and nine. These movies were all critically acclaimed,
but Vicky Christina Barcelona in particular Penelope Cruise one in Oscar.
It was nominated for so many things. It was really
(14:02):
the scene as like this turning point of really cementing
Scarlett Johanson as a dramatic actress. And so she was
asked about how she had handled the online anger towards her,
about siding with Woody Allen, and if there had been
any consequences. So in this article, Scarlet says, I guess
it's hard to know. You never know what the domino
effect is. But my mum always encouraged me to be
(14:25):
myself and to see what's important to have integrity and
to stand up what you believe in. And then she
went on to say, at the same time, I think
it's also important to know when it's not your turn.
I don't mean that you should silence yourself. I mean
sometimes it's just not your time, and that's something I've
understood as I've matured.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
I do think it's interesting that she says that last
part because she's doing the exact opposite of that.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
I think there's a few layers to what she said there.
One is that Scarlet Johansen has always had quite a
lot of controversy around her, but she is quite an
untouchable movie star in many ways that she is consistently
the highest paid actress in Hollywood for many years. A
lot of that is to do obviously with being in Marvel,
but she also, like any of her controversies over the years,
(15:11):
haven't stopped her from like starting her skincare business or
directing movies, and she is someone in Hollywood that, apart
from Ronan Pharoh and like probably James Franco, who's been
very much canceled, she is someone who, like a lot
of other celebs, rally around in ways that haven't happened
for other celebrities who have had some of these controversies.
So I think that that's kind of interesting that she
(15:31):
kind of is talking from a place of safety, knowing
that no matter what she says, she's going to maintain
that ability to make money and be beloved and get
Jewel Oscar nominations.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
The article also covers a number of those other controversies.
It's quite a meaty article. I mean they talk about,
you know, suing Disney for the Black Widow release. She
is not free from controversy.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, I think she came out of the Disney thing
quite well, though probably not in Disney's eyes. But again,
she's such like a big name that they can't touch her.
I think a lot of people were just like, yeah,
get that money kind of thing. A lot of the
other controversies are to do with casting and diversity. So
when she was cast in Ghosts in a Shell, there
was a lot of anger about a white woman in
what should have been a Japanese role. And then instead
(16:11):
of kind of acknowledging that, which she did a little bit,
she did a lot of interviews about it. That's the thing, like,
if you ask her, and I kind of respect that
a little bit, if you ask her, she'll just answer
and give her thoughts. Again, it's coming from a place
of safety. But she was like, I would never take
a role away from anyone else. I would never play
anything that I wasn't supposed to play. But she's like,
I can't believe you people aren't celebrating a woman being
(16:32):
in this iconic role and staid making it about race,
and then she said something that was quite unfortunate. She's like,
if I want to play a tree or play a tree,
and everyone's.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Like, Oh, that's not the it's not the way to
don't comple.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
And this is coming after the reaction to Ghosts in
a Shell, where she was cast in the role of
a transgender man in the movie Rub and Tug, and
this was a huge issue because a lot of people
were like, a straight white woman in particular playing that
role is taking that role away from other actor, and
especially when transgender actors in Hollywood usually don't get to
(17:05):
not even play characters that are for them, but get
to play characters in many different ways across movies and
TV shows. And she released a statement at the time
because this was a huge uproar and it was one
of those things that just it picked up across Twitter,
it picked up across Facebook and Instagram and all of
these things, and instead of having conversation about it, Scarlet
Johansson doubled down. She put out a statement that said,
(17:26):
for anyone who's upset about this, tell them. They can
be directed to Jeffrey Tamball, Jared Leto and Felicity Huffman's
reps for comment. Obviously all straight actors who have played
transgender characters in the past. I guess her point was
they were all critically acclaimed, they won awards, they got
pay a lot of money for playing these transgender characters.
And then her point was, and now I'm doing it
and I'm getting ripped apart. But the sentiment was that
(17:48):
times had just changed. She did pull out of that movie, though.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Well, if we're talking about the last twenty years of Hollywood,
it's changed significantly in terms of not casting straight people
in gay roles to give those people an opportunity to
be the stars, which is why Pose was such a
huge hit, because it hired all transactors in the roles
and it was really critically acclaimed. But yeah, I think
(18:13):
she's just trying to sort of back out of that one.
But I just feel like she has gotten away with
saying certain things. I understand why she's trying to stick
up for him, because she respects him, she likes his work,
she is friends with him. But I do think it's
important to look at like the actual facts of the matter.
(18:34):
And she says, oh, but I believe him, Well, do
you not believe the other people?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah, it's interesting that Woody Allen and who supports him
and who doesn't has become like the biggest line in
the sand for people in Hollywood. And for a while there,
it's like the whole thing of like, Woody Allen makes
one movie a year, and everyone wanted to be in
it because if you're like a Kate Blanchet or something,
you definitely win an oscar for it. And it had
this built in audience. So like that was the whole thing,
(19:00):
is like Woody Allen makes one movie a year, everyone
wants to be in it, Everyone will go see it,
it will win Oscars. And it was this pattern. And
then as time went on and people started to delve
more into Dylan Farrow's accusations and the Me two movement happened,
and times up, and that's when Hollywood started to fall
a little bit out of favor with Woody Allen. And
now you know, even he has said that he struggles
to get distribution for his movies, and there have been
(19:22):
a lot of really big celebrities who have worked with
him in the past who have come out and said
they deeply regret it. So like Michael Kaine has Greta Girlwig,
has Colin Firth, has Timothy Shallaman, Timothy Charmain Rebecca Hall
both donated the fees from the movie they worked on
because they said they felt bad about taking money from it.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Blake Lively did actually work with him, and when she
was asked about him, she was very, very evasive. She
didn't actually answer. She's like, oh, I don't know much
about it. I'm just gonna leave it. And Kate Blanchett
actually did the same thing too. There's kind of the
celebrities that will dance around it, definitely not defending him,
but then also not supporting him.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah, it's interesting. I've struggled with that over the years
because I'm someone who has called out people like in
like my writing, people like Blake Lively who want to
be in the big movie and want to wear the
pretty dresses. It can't. But then when it comes to
being asked about Woody Allen has gotten quite upset with
journalists and said like, it's nothing to do with me,
and like sometimes I've called them out, but then I've
also backtracked and been like, oh, why am I attacking
(20:22):
this young woman for what this man has done, but
it's a complicated situation. And then you have people like
Kristian Stewart, who was in Cafe Society with Blake Lively
and that was the kind of one of the last
big Woody Allen movies when everyone was like, yeah, we're
all in on this. So I understand why they did
it in a way. And I usually agree with Christian
Sewan on most of what she says, but I sort
of had to sit with what she said about working
(20:43):
with Woody Allen because she said that she was wrestling
with it when she signed on for the movie, which
I find interesting because that means I'm like, so you
knew about everything, Yeah, you were in the depths of it.
And then she said that she talked with Jesse Eisenberg
about it, and she came to the idea that she's like,
a lot of what people have said about me is
not true. And if I thought someone I was working
with believed everything, that would be really upsetting for me.
(21:06):
Because she's like, I know a lot of lies are
printed about me, and so I can't not work with
someone just because things have been printed about them. And
I was a bit like, I don't know about that's
not quite the Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
It's not illegal though the things that they're lying about.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Yeah, it's not a morally brumer.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Yeah, there's a big difference between a rumor and sexual
assault allegations and c SAM like, it's it's very, very different.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I think one of the best responses, especially giving space
to someone to change their mind as they get older
and they work more is Kate Winslow, because she did
a Woody on movie and there was quite a bit
of backlash at the time, and she was like, no, no, no,
I had a wonderful experience working with him. It was
so great, was so professional. I've never felt so creatively challenged.
I'm not getting into this. And then years later she
(21:51):
had a complete turnaround and she said, what the fuck
was I doing working with Woody Allen and Roman Polanski?
The Roman plans give it all is actually wild. I
was like, yeah, girl, what were you doing? She said,
it's unbelievable to me now how these men were held
in such high regard so widely in the film industry
and for as long as they were. It's fucking disgraceful.
(22:11):
And then she said, I had to take responsibility for
the fact that I work with them.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Both.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
I can't turn back the clock. I'm grappling with those regrets.
But what do we do if we can't just be
fucking truthful about it all? And the whole thing is like,
I don't I don't dislike Scarlet Johanson for this. I
also don't think it's not my place to dislike her.
One part of me thinks that, like she really believes
that he's innocent, and she really believes in Woody Allen,
and so I respect her a little bit for being
(22:36):
one of the few people in Hollywood to actually say
what she thinks. But on the other hand, like she
said herself that she's made a career out of being controversial,
which I think if you said the name Scarlet Johanson,
no one would think she's contra scary under the writ
born actress who just kind of yeah, does say a
lot of wrong things, but like at the end of
(22:57):
the day, she's very protected from it. Also, when she
talks about and when she talks about building her career
on controversy, I was like, just I don't think that's true,
because if you career was built on controversy, you wouldn't
have all these huge opportunities that you have, and you
wouldn't have all these get out of jail free passes,
and you wouldn't be able to say whatever you want
an interview place of safety, knowing that people will still
buy your skincare. People are very invested in your marriage
(23:20):
to like your comedian husband, people are very invested in
your return to like the Marvel Cinematic universe. And I
just think it's very Yeah, it's not exactly a clear
cut situation. Well, we'll link the full interview that she
did with the Telegraph and the show notes, because you know,
if you want to sort of read her full statement
and sort of look into that yourself, it is an
interesting read.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Nana nanaa et Suran has released an additional thirteen songs
for his deluxe album play So to talk about this
and all of those new songs, we have the wonderful
Bree Player here. She's the executive producer of Mamma MIA's
interview podcast No Filter, and she's interviewed ed Shuran, She's
interviewed a number of other music artists, and she's a
(24:00):
wonderful wealth of knowledge. Bra Are you gonna help us
out today? Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
So? Ed has done the deluxe version of Play. So
the album that he released back in September, he's done
a re release deluxe, which is very popular with musicians
these days, and on it are fourteen new tracks, and interestingly,
the famously private Ed Seron has hinted to some troubles
within his marriage to Cherry.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
This is something that surprised me the most is because
you know, we know artists write about their love lives
all the time, they use it as inspiration, but Ed
has been so private about Cherry, especially Cherry and their kids.
Actually Laura, Laura's really good a celebrity kids.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Now I know those children's names, you don't know their name.
He never talks about them. I know, I know every
other slub child's name. But I think that goes to
show just how private Ed Sharon is is. Like, we
don't know a huge amount about his family. We know
that they have two kids together, right, two they've been
like do you know their name?
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
And Jupiter. Oh. I actually did know it was Larra
because they named her from that famous book series. So
that's the golden compass.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yes, it's Lyra Antuctica Seaborn Schurin.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
That's a great name. I know he and cherry like.
They have done some kind of promo not promo stuff together,
but they have talked about their relationship and how in
love they are over the years. My biggest memory of
him is that he said that he kind of almost
like set a test for her when they started dating,
when he would take her to parties and kind of
just like purposely leave her alone in the room when
he was becoming like very very famous, to see if
(25:29):
she could go and look after herself and and kind
of stand on her own, so that he knew she
could stand by his side through the fame, which I
always felt like a bit. Yeah, it's brutal right, I
don't know how. I don't doubt me, but she passed.
But she obviously passed. So the pair have been married
now since twenty nineteen. And yeah, they are famously private.
(25:50):
She is so low key. You don't see her at places.
I mean, look, he's quite low key as well, Like
he famously doesn't have a phone. Yeah, so so it's
hard to reach. He definitely grapples with fame, and I
think he's been very open about that and the way
that he guards that. To me, he's a musician who
wants to be a musician. He doesn't want to be
(26:12):
a celebrity, right, but he just happens to write massive,
massive hits and do these massive tours.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Yeah. So one of the song's problems is the song
that kind of really sparked people. So lyrics are flowers
in our garden are dying? When did the water run dry?
Who can tell? But you want the truth, We're not fine.
And I feel like that's very very honest.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah, it's so honest. I mean it's like, for Ed,
we always hear him writing these incredible love songs, right,
I mean, so many people have had Ed sheeran romantic
love songs at their wedding. He's very good at expressing
his emotion, but we normally hear it from the other
side of it. So to hear this is really interesting
(26:54):
and to hear him say, to compare it to flowers
that are dying. But I mean, you're married, right, you
know that, like a marriage takes work.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
That's why I think I quite like it because a
lot of people have really latched onto the troubles that
they're having. But there are a number of other songs
in it that talk about how much he still loves
her and how much he wants to put the work in. Absolutely,
I don't think it's like a rift in the relationship
it's going to end. No, it's just a very honest
analysis of like what it's actually like to be in
(27:24):
a relationship when you've got two small children.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Absolutely, And I think what people forget as well as
that artists write these songs and then they release them
a year later.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Right, So what's he.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Singing about right now in these new tracks aren't necessarily
effective of what's happening in their relationship now, it's reflective
of what was happening at the time that he wrote it,
or you know, leading into the time that he wrote it.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Now.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I chatted with Ed Cheeran back in July ahead of
like when he was doing promo for announcing his Australian tour.
So he's coming here next year in feb and he'll
be here all month touring around Australia. Now, he was
happy talking about his family, you know, not delving into
the nitty gritty. But first thing he did was bring
(28:09):
up his daughters. He talked about Cherry, talked about her warmly.
He talked about how she's like the grounding person in
his life. And definitely like still is and has always been.
But when an artist is on the road for months
and months and months at a time, and sometimes like
their tours will go for a year, year and a half,
two years, like it puts a strain.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
And let's not forget that Cherry was diagnosed with brain
cancer when she was pregnant with their second daughter, and
we saw a little bit of that in that documentary
that he did, so you know, he kind we saw
a little bit of a glimpse into it. So you know,
he's got two kits, a wife, he travels on stop.
His wife is she's better now, She's okay, but a
bit a very stressful few years. It was a quote
(28:52):
I found earlier on in the year he in a
Q and a session at Spotify HQ. He said, Cherry
knows I write about everything, not just the good stuff.
Songs like perfect exist, but so do the ones about
real conflict that's part of any relationship. And I think
it's important to be honest about it.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah, absolutely, And I think that's what we're saying here.
What I do find really interesting with the songs that
he's added and the delatse is that they're the ones
that delve into these marriage issues. It's interesting that they
weren't on the original album, and I think he did that.
I think it's very much on purpose. I don't think
Ed cares about Colin Inch's and headlines. I don't think
(29:30):
that this is trying to get those songs out there.
I don't think he actually cares about that. I think
he's at a stage in his career where he's writing
the songs he wants to do. He's exploring different things musically.
We've got some Eastern influences on this album, which is
him trying different things. Yeah, exactly, and Sapphire, and he
(29:51):
wants to kind of explore different areas as an artist
and not really care about whether he's getting number ones
and things like that. Now he doesn't have anything left
to prove, so I think he knew that by holding
back these songs rather than releasing them straight away, meant
that the music that he was proud of and the
music that he wanted to put out there got to
exist on its own before the headlines and the news
(30:15):
came out about is their marriage issues there?
Speaker 1 (30:18):
I have one more question for you. Yeah, you know so,
Ed is very famous for doing all of his album
titles are part of this maths equation. We've got equals,
We've got we've got play, we've got divide. What's he
going to do once he runs out Pie Pi?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I don't do PI do pie. Maths is not my
strong suit, So look is.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
The wrong room to be asking? Yeah, but I love
the theme. You know, Adele did the twenty one, she
did twenty nineteen, all of that. But I feel like
he's really got a great thing here. He does.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
This tour is called the Loop Tour. Ooh, maybe it's
like an infinity an infinity so it's just yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Anyway, so as you're in playing in Australia next.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Year, playing in Australia next year.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
He's a good boy.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
He hits everyone, he makes sure that everyone gets to
Sam and he always plays a stadium and he'll be
here all through fab and into the beginning of March.
So look, it'd be interesting to see if he opens
up a little bit when talking on stage, and whether
he even sings these tracks because they are on the
Deluxe so he may not.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Thanks so much for listening today, guys, make sure you're
following this bill on TikTok and Instagram. We love chatting
with you. We'll be back here in your feed tomorrow
morning at seven am with Morning Tea hosted by the
wonder Lush London. This bill is produced by Minisha is
Warren with sound production by Scott's Stronik.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Bye Bye, Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land.
We have recorded this podcast on the Gatigor people of
the eorination. We pay our respects to their elders past
and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and
(31:59):
Torres Strait Islander cultures.
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