June 22, 2026 • 34 mins
Before this is a conversation about grief, it’s a conversation about love.
In this deeply personal episode, Simon and Lachy are joined by Lauren - Simon’s wife - to talk about her mum Michelle, who was diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer’s. They reflect on the beautiful bond Michelle shared with her grandson Asher, and what it means to keep someone you love part of the family story after they’re gone.
Lauren shares what her mum was like, what it meant to care for her while raising a young child, and the small rituals that keep Michelle close.
Content note: this episode includes conversations about Alzheimer’s, caregiving, grief and death.
HOSTS
Simon Pryce
Lachlan Gillespie
GUEST
Lauren Hannaford
PRODUCERS
Produced by The Wiggles and Mylk Media
Madeline Joannou
Nick Webb
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About The Wiggles' Podcast - Wiggle Talk
Welcome to Wiggle Talk, the ultimate parenting podcast brought to you by The Wiggles! With over 30 years of experience in early childhood education and a global legacy of entertaining and educating millions of children, The Wiggles are now stepping into the world of parenting to share their journey as parents themselves. This podcast is designed for parents seeking expert advice, relatable stories, and practical tips on raising toddlers.
In Wiggle Talk, you'll join Simon and Lachy, beloved members of The Wiggles, as they explore the real-life challenges and joys of parenting. From handling toddler tantrums to nurturing your child’s early development, Simon and Lachy invite guests to share compelling conversations that will provide valuable insights that every parent can relate to. Whether you're struggling with sleep routines, picky eating, or simply looking for fun and educational activities to do with your little ones, this podcast has got you covered.
Every episode also features founding Wiggle and early childhood expert Anthony Field, who will answer listener questions on topics ranging from child behaviour to effective parenting strategies. With decades of experience and a passion for helping children thrive – as well as being a father of three - Anthony offers trustworthy advice to help you navigate the complexities of raising a toddler.
As parents, we know that the journey can be both rewarding and challenging. That's why Wiggle Talk is here to support you every step of the way. Whether you're a new parent or have been on this journey for a while, you'll find a wealth of information and inspiration in each episode. Plus, you’ll hear from famous friends of The Wiggles who share their own parenting experiences and tips.
So, tune in to Wiggle Talk and join The Wiggles as they swap their skivvies for candid conversations about parenthood. Let's work out this parenting thing together, with a little help from the experts in early childhood education!
About The Wiggles
For over three decades, The Wiggles have been a beloved cornerstone of children's entertainment, captivating and educating millions of preschoolers—and their parents—around the world. Known for their high-energy performances, catchy songs, and colourful characters, The Wiggles have built a global legacy rooted in the power of music and movement to inspire early childhood learning.
With a mission to make education fun, The Wiggles create content specifically designed for pre-K, preschool, kindergarten, and nursery school age groups. Their unique blend of music, dance, and educational content not only entertains but also helps children understand the world around them. Generations of fans who grew up watching The Wiggles are now sharing that same joy with their own children.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Wiggles acknowledge the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia
and their connections to land, see and community. We pay
our respects to elders, past, present and emerging.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to Wiggle Talk. We are a podcast for parents and.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
We are we? How are we today?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I'm Lucky Gillespie, the Purple Wiggle.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Hello Simon, Hello Lucky, I'm Simon. I'm the Red Wiggle.
Now this episode today is going to be a little
bit different for us. Today we're going to talk to Lauren,
my beautiful wife. Lauren's here. Now, it's not that kind
of usual guest scenario here on the Pods. A little
bit different because you know, Lauren's my wife, Ash's mum,
and well, we've been living through something that's sort of
(00:52):
very real in our family, so I thought we'd talk
about today. We're talking about mothering without your mother. Now,
Lauren mum a little while ago, and one of those
things that we've been navigating is a family is what
it means to keep parenting, to keep showing up and
keep being a mum while also carrying the absence of
your own mum. Now, just to be clear, this isn't
(01:14):
a conversation about parenting without grandparents altogether, because that isn't
our reality. She still has grandparents in his life. This
is more specifically about the loss of that mother figure
for Lauren, the person you might have imagined calling, leaning on,
asking questions, sharing milestones with, or watching become a grandmother
(01:34):
as your child grows, because when you become a parent,
there are so many moments where you want your mom
there to ask things like is this normal to share
the little things, to hear what you were like at
that age, To have someone who knows you as both
their child and now as a parent yourself, And when
that person isn't physically here anymore, it changes something, not
(01:56):
just in your grief, but also in your motherhood. Now,
this isn't something that has just happened, but as we
all know, grief doesn't move in a straight line. It
takes time to even feel ready to talk about it.
And being able to talk about it doesn't mean you've
processed at all or that everything now all of a
sudden feels okay. It's something that keeps changing as life
(02:17):
keeps moving. For us, a big part of that has
been working out how we keep Lauren's mum present in
our family thought, both for Lauren and myself and especially
for Asher. Because Asha knew his grandmother, which we feel
so blessed about. He remembers her, So this isn't about
helping him know someone never met. It's about helping him
(02:37):
hold them to someone he loved and making sure she
stays part of his stories he grows up.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
And we wanted to have this conversation on wigged Talk
because so many parents are carrying some version of this.
You might be raising children after losing your mum or dad,
trying to keep someone's memory alive, or realizing that becoming
a parent can make you miss your own parent in
a completely different way.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Luren, Well, as we call you loss or eyes, I
call you a little pumpkin pie. I don't really we
might start doing that. Welcome to wiggle Talk.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Hello darling, come to work day. Isn't it fun?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
And you're sharing the couch together?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
It's lovely. It's nice to have you here.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
And this will be a lovely chat.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Loss.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
We have tissues ready, but we just want to first
of all, get to know your your mum and what
she was like. What was your mom like for you.
And then for Asher, Oh.
Speaker 5 (03:34):
My Godady, she was the best.
Speaker 6 (03:41):
She was kind, she was supportive, encouraging, and she just
had so much love to give.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
She was wonderful.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
You know, your mom loved to laugh. That was one
of the great memories I have, your momies her laughter.
This is terrible.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
How long ago did your mom pass?
Speaker 6 (04:07):
This is still very fresh. We'll not super presh. Actually
it'll be two years in August, okay, so, but it
always feels new.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, never, it's not new.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
No, it's not necessarily about those sort of big moments
or milestones. Is that it's just the day to day. Yeah,
those memories you know obviously that I have with your
mum and you have of course, but then also that
Asha has, and I think it's lovely that we feel
very fortunate that he was old enough, yes to experience
(04:43):
his name.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Yeah, and they had a great time together.
Speaker 6 (04:46):
You know, she obviously she couldn't sort of be there
like you know, maybe other grandparents can be like, you know,
helpful babysitters as such, but she wasn't able to do that.
But they had such a beautiful relationship and loving relationship
when they were together, and they would just you know,
(05:07):
she would make him laugh, he would make her laugh,
and she just she would just always say, oh, he's
so good.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
And for everyone listening, Loss's mum was diagnosed with early
onset Alzheimer's. So she was in her early sixties when
she got Alzheimer's. And so for those first couple of
years of Ash's life before he went to daycare preschool,
Loss and Ash, you were your mum's every day, helping
her because she needed help before she ended up going
to a home. And so for those first couple of
(05:44):
years of Ash's life, literally he was with his nan
every day. You know, they'd go over and because you
were having to shop for her and do all those
sort of things for her, and so it was, you know,
you were her main care and so Asha they had
this great bond from such a young age because of
the amount of time together. Yeah, and that changed a
bit as the years went on because of her illness,
(06:05):
but they always had that little connection and she would say, oh,
he's so gorgeous. Like and Michelle's form of Alzheimer's was
she could still comprehend, but she couldn't communicate, So you
knew that she was understanding what was being said. To her.
You knew she got everything that was going on, but
she couldn't then articulate into words. She couldn't form her
(06:28):
words anymore to actually to say what she was feeling.
But she'd always get out, he's so gorgeously.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
He love you, love you, love you, love you, love you.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Timing wise, then, was that you'd had Asher before your
mom started?
Speaker 6 (06:43):
No, so she so she was Dino's sixty two. She
passed at seventy one.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
So for.
Speaker 5 (06:51):
A lot, I guess it was only those.
Speaker 6 (06:53):
Last few years really, all last how old's usha five
years for three and a half years that they had together.
But she, I mean, Alzheimer's presents differently for everyone, and
straight away from the get go it was word finding
for her.
Speaker 5 (07:10):
She would, you know, lose words and.
Speaker 6 (07:11):
Lose that ability to articulate and communicate.
Speaker 5 (07:15):
But she weirdly didn't forget things as such, anything that she.
Speaker 6 (07:21):
Had feeling about or that made her feel emotional about
something in some capacity she would remember. So you could say, oh,
you know, Mom, we're going to go to the shops
or whatever, go for a walk, you know, did you
have some breakfast? You know, just making conversation to help
you know, encourage her to talk and do all of that,
and she'd be like.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
No, I don't know, like not not no.
Speaker 6 (07:44):
But then we would be walking through the shopping center, say,
and she would manage in some capacity to say, oh,
I was here last week with Linda. One of her
care is because she would have a lovely time with her.
She would feel something about that, so she could recall.
But yeah, she couldn't recall if you just asked her
a day to day like did you have a shower
(08:06):
this morning? She wouldn't wouldn't know, which I guess is
part of that short term memory thing, but yeah, she
would still remember things.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
Yeah, it just presents differently.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
I think that's really I was asking. So you had
Asher for those first few years that you had to
go and do all that mmmm, all that work with
your mum. So that was probably a really lovely thing
for you. Yeah, to have Asha there with you as
opposed to not having Ashy yet and having to go
and be and see your mom like that by yourself.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah, it's probably really nice to have.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Is there a standout memory that you have between Asher
and and your mom?
Speaker 6 (08:45):
There's quite a few, but weirdly, there's this one particular memory,
I went over to shower her at her place before
she moved into a home, and she had this step
ladder and I was trying to get her in the
shower and get her out of the shl that was
also trying to look after Asher, you know, toddler running
around because he's quite a busy child, and he found
(09:08):
the step ladder, of course, and so he was climbing
up the step ladder and doing all of that, and
you know, then Mum was showered and dressed, and I
just stepped back and watched them on this step ladder
just like because she was you know, it was amazing
because she showed this innate mothering ability that you know,
(09:29):
never leaves you, and she's making sure he's okay and
getting him down and walking him up and doing all
of that, and just stepping back and just seeing that
moment is so so clear in my mind of you know.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
Such a small thing.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
I mean, there's so many beautiful memories, but yeah, that
one sort of stands out in her place before she
moved into the home, and it wasn't her place anymore.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Where when she did move into the High Mass, she said,
why do so many people live with Nanny.
Speaker 6 (10:02):
Because I didn't make a big thing. You know, she's
in this home. You know, he was too young to
really understand, but he also he understood that this is
not Nanny's home, and I know we're going to a
different place, and I'm like, this is where Nanny lives. Now.
You know, there's some extra people here to just help
and have, you know, because she lived by herself and
(10:24):
now it's nice and she's got other people to be
around all the time, you know, just trying to make.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
Positive of all of it.
Speaker 6 (10:30):
And yet he just goes, why are there so many
people at Nannie's house all the time?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
What does he kind of say, now, how has that
changed in the conversation.
Speaker 6 (10:41):
With There's not a lot of talk as such. There's
sort of just memory kind of things that we do.
Like we'll go to her pluck which is down at
the pond, and so it's just a lovely time to
go and have a picnic. And he looks at the
turtles and does all of that and you know, talks
to Nanny and.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
He's got his there's a little Lego figurines down there
at the park and a little racing cars and he's
put there for Nanny.
Speaker 6 (11:07):
Yeah, so he wanted to have a Nanny Lego and
an Ash lego. So went to the Lego store in
the city where you can make the little legos, and
he made one of Nanny and one of him and
we went and they lived down at the park, and
so they're always But then I found it. We found it.
Speaker 5 (11:26):
She was at someone else's assume a child came past
and was like, oh, and be carrying it. And then
that parent went, oh, my goodness, where did that come from.
Speaker 6 (11:36):
That's not our.
Speaker 5 (11:41):
Everything there is very precious.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
Yeah, we've got the little lego and we've got things
like Nanny Bickie's. So whenever he went to her place,
and she'd have particular biscuits and things like that, and
we still refer to them as Nanny Bickie's and we
still get them. And they would always have like a
lemomorane tart. He would have a lem range tarts his favorite,
(12:06):
and she would have apricot tart and we'd go to
the park, and so anytime we get a lemorange tart,
we refer to Nanny. And he'll sometimes go to the
picture of her on the wall at home and show
a drawing that he did or something.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
And sometimes she even plays cricket with us.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Actually, yeah, that's right. Yeah, she's a good catch.
Speaker 6 (12:30):
Picture and that goes Nanny cricket, and so they play
a cricket. But even when we sometimes play outside now
he goes and gets her picture and says on Nanny
can be the audience and takes her photo and sits
it outside, and she's part of the audiences.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, it's very much a part of his life.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
Yeah, we just keep those memories and.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
He kind of I mean it was obviously instigated bars,
but he's kept that going too.
Speaker 6 (12:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Way he references Nanny and stuff within the home and
things and things that obviously connected and meant something to
him when she passed. We didn't quite know how to
frame it. I think we've talked about this before, but
we kind of just said, you know, Nanny's gone to
sleep and went down that path. But it wasn't until
he watched Lion King where Morefassa dies in Lion King.
(13:21):
Then he said and then he that Ash went, ah,
that's just like Nanny.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
Died like Nanny, And I was like, yeah, Mannie, yeah.
Speaker 6 (13:30):
Yeah, And I thought, okay, this is this is an
opportunity to have that sort of conversation a bit more deeply,
and so, yeah, that is what happened.
Speaker 5 (13:37):
And he died.
Speaker 6 (13:38):
She you know, went to sleep and she died and
she's not going to wake up again like mufassa. And
he drew that connection. And it was a little while
after it was he drew that connection.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
That scene is I remember going to the cinema to
watch that with dad. Dad took us randomly and he
was in tear. That that scene will forever I think
for so many that is so full on.
Speaker 6 (13:58):
Yeah, I'm the same first movie I cried in I
sit next to my dad, climbed onto his lap and
you know, in tears, and I will never forget that.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
When do you kind of feel her the most? Is
it like big milestone moments or is it just like
literally you're at home by on a day to day
basis or all the time?
Speaker 6 (14:20):
Yeah? Yeah, always.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
A lot of the time.
Speaker 6 (14:24):
Like Cooker Burroughs remind us of her. That's a really
special thing. And our family is Cooker Borroughs when we
hear them, and we'll see them when we get Cooko
borrough things, and something really special when actually you know,
started school and they get their house colors and all
of that, and his cousin is in Whale, which is blue.
(14:47):
And technically if you've got family at the school, you
go into the same house. And he came home and
he said, oh, we got our house colors and I said, oh,
what house are you in? He said cook A Burrough
and I was like, away, yeah, which is purple. And
then I thought, oh, maybe I should talk to them
because they've been to sort of be together.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
It's family, and I was like, you know what, I'm
just gonna let let it go.
Speaker 6 (15:11):
You know, amazing that he's in cookabar Like there's just
all these little special little moments that come up through
Cooko bars And I so distinctly remember when we were kids,
you know, driving to go camping and they're being Cooko
barras on the barbed wire and she would always point
them out and.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
Say aren't they.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
God?
Speaker 6 (15:33):
And then seeing Kooko Barra sits in the old gum true,
like just these special things.
Speaker 5 (15:38):
So yeah, but just generally it's just it's just always.
Speaker 6 (15:43):
It's all I kind of think of grief to be
a bit like it's like you've got sand in one hand,
and it's always there and you've still got to try
and manage to do things with two hands, but you're
still you're carrying this all the time and it's like,
try not to let this hands slip through your hands
and you just managed, you managed to maneuver and do things.
(16:05):
But it's always there, and so it's just kind of
always hard. So like milestone sort of things like you know,
Mother's Day things like that, it's not necessarily harder than
any other day because she's not not here more.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
On that day than she's any other day. She's always
not here.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
So yeah, it's interesting too, isn't it. Because the relationship
with your mum over the ten years prior was not
a relationship where and after we had Asher, and there's
also you know, she had other grandchildren as well, it
was a different relationship because so many people rely on
(16:46):
grandparents to be around to help in order and that
wasn't ever the relationship with Michelle and grandchildren because she
didn't have the ability to do that.
Speaker 6 (16:56):
So she wanted to and if she could, she would
be there all the time, and she wanted to, and
there was that tricky stage of her wanting to in
her sort of trying to offer but knowing that she
couldn't and not wanting to remind her that she couldn't.
And so yeah, it was tricky to navigate.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
But it's that.
Speaker 6 (17:16):
Sort of been grieving this time for ten years, like
it's someone My godfather actually sent me a video sort
of early on called The Long Goodbye, and I've never
been able to watch it, and I can barely still
actually say that that's what it is, because it is
(17:38):
it's just a long goodbye.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
It's just gradually changes.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Anyway, from my perspective, one of the saddest things is
that Michelle would have loved nothing more than to be
a present grandmother. Yeah, yeah, And I think that's hardest
thing for her, not because it was for us to
(18:04):
rely on her to help us or to baby said,
just that that for that period in her life, at
the time in her life, she would have loved nothing
more than to be that had that role and be
that person. And I think that's what the hardest thing
is from looking at it from that perspective of losing Michelle,
and you know, Mom and Grandma, she.
Speaker 6 (18:23):
Just still had so much love to give, you know.
So yeah, it's sad for her that she didn't get
to experience that the longer.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, it's not fair at all, is it to.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Use to use this? I don't need the mom fine
as a mom. Now, are there things that you have
wished that you could have asked your mum or things
(18:55):
you realize now about your upbringing that you kind of
relate to yourself as mom? Now do you see yourself
in Michelle as a mum? Yeah?
Speaker 6 (19:05):
I do, And maybe it's just because I'm similar to
her as a person, but just just always being enthusiastic
and playful and loving and all of those sorts of
things support him, encouraging, like all of.
Speaker 5 (19:21):
That was my mum. And I think.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
There's times where, yeah, I'm reminded, I'm like, oh my gosh,
that is just totally my mom. But even things that
Asher does is like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Gene is very strong, very strong.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
A couple of your trip.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Yeah, just putting things in its place and that's about it.
That's about it. But I'm fine with it. I'm just
going to get picked on, not playfully picked on.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
We procrastinate, we get distracted.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
Was not one more thing to do?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Some of what changed for you in the way you
supported Lauren.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Well, I mean, I think such a big focus for
Los was caring for a mum, and so Lauren had
an online fitness business and at the same time we
had Asher. Los's mum was getting quite unwell, and so
I was decided to kind of shut the business down
because it was just too much. It was too much
(20:29):
going on, and Lots would take on the role of
being a sort of full time care for a mum
as well as you know, having a newborn and working
all through all that, and so that took up a
tremendous amount of time. And so when all of a
sudden Michelle passed, that leaves. So your whole day to
day has been based around caring looking after somebody else
(20:51):
as well as your son, and now that changed instantly.
So that was a massive adjustment about trying to work out, Okay,
well what does life look for us now, because that
became our normal, and particularly became loss as normal about
caring for a mum and being the main one of
the main focuses in a life. And I think that
was the biggest transition through all that, and I think
(21:15):
still working through that because and for me, I was
it was about trying to help you navigate through that
that you weren't having those moments of real emptiness and
loss and trying to put other things back into your
life to kind of fell that whole a little bit.
Speaker 6 (21:35):
Yeah, Like I still am programmed to think, oh, okay,
I'll get to ash to school and then I'll go
and see mum or take her out for a walk
or like that is still programmed, and so I still
have those moments of going, oh, oh no, no, no,
I'm not doing that.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
Okay, you know, things like that.
Speaker 6 (22:00):
There's not so much like calling her, you know, or
sending her a text or anything like that, because we.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Couldn't couldn't actually do that because she couldn't.
Speaker 6 (22:10):
Get in the car and go, and so it was
very much a like a program sort of days. And
so I still have those moments of thinking about doing
those things and have to catch myself and then go, oh, no,
I'm not doing that.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
The coffee.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
At all isn't that interesting. That's two years on and
that's still still.
Speaker 6 (22:34):
And I guess maybe part of it is because that's
what you want. Your brain doesn't move on maybe.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
And I think because you you couldn't text or call,
then there was such a physical action. You had to
go to your mum to see You couldn't just check
in over the phone or check in, so it was
a it was an even bigger part of your day
be you physically had to get in the car and
go and be with.
Speaker 6 (23:00):
Physically get a hug. You know, I'm just a chat
on the phone and I'll talk to you tomorrow, will
talk to you next week.
Speaker 7 (23:06):
Like it was always like a physical look on her
face of love and a hug and I love you
so not physically having that in your day is big.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
You get plenty of hugs from Asher, of course, some love.
Speaker 5 (23:31):
I haven't learned yet to stop being so desperate for it.
I need to play hard to.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Get Yeah, that's right, Just might hug please?
Speaker 2 (23:38):
I feel like I think.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Yeah, he said in the car and that I was
driving to work and I was was taking Ash to
school and he said on the phone, Mom, I'm just
going to give you the biggest snuggle when we get
to school and not let go of you so I
don't have to go to stay with me.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
All that means I get a hug yet, you and I.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
And as a family, we've never been a family to
us for much help or support. I think looking back,
particularly in those early stages when ash was born and
your mum was getting sick, we probably should have reached
out to other people, whether it was family members or
worked out how we could get extra help, because that's
(24:26):
kind of made transitions a bit trickier, just even in
general with Ashua, with Loz and I are going out
and having a babysit all that. If we'd actually started
that kind of external support a little bit earlier, I
think would have made life a little bit easier, which is,
in hindsight, a good thing to know and to think about. Yeah,
if you need support, you need to ask for it.
(24:47):
Don't just try to fend for yourself.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
And then wait till you actually have and then.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Go, Okay, what do we do now? Actually ask for
help from people, because most people within your community, and they,
you know, people call it a village, want to help. Yeah,
if you're reaching out and needing support, I.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Think that's a really good point because I think you
both are amazing. We haven't spoken a lot about it,
but a lot of people have support. You really didn't
for that whole time you were going through all that,
and then that must feel so weird then to actually
start asking when.
Speaker 6 (25:18):
Yeah, I find that, I find that's something I find
really sort of hard or triggering. You know, when I see,
you know, families with and ashit he does have other grandparents.
But when you see you know, a mother and daughter,
you know grandparents and they're there and they're helping, and
they're at things and they're doing things, and or you know,
(25:41):
someone sort of talks about their mom's been over to
help and or they've been there, you know, three days
in a row, and oh, she drives me mad.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
And like the things like that, I think, Oh, I
wish my mum was there to drive me mad. You know,
we don't have that luxury.
Speaker 6 (25:57):
And so that's something I find quite a hard when, yes,
you see people being able to experience that, or seeing
people like being really impatient with their parents and or
like short fused or just even you know, come on,
hurry up, like whatever it might be.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
It's so I just want to say, at some point
in your life, you won't have that.
Speaker 6 (26:21):
So and I guess that's the thing with and you know,
just as a person, much like my mum, I'm just
a patient person. But that's something that Alzheimer's also teaches
you you just have to be patient. It's not their fault.
So I might be at the other end of the
scale in terms of being patient with parents, but I
(26:41):
do find that hard when I see children speak to
their parents, especially while they're they're helping with the grandchildren
and being sort of maybe short with them, and that
hurts a bit.
Speaker 5 (26:53):
It's hard, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
That must have been.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
Hard at first to even for you to kind of
acknowledge and get used to with your mum when it
started starting to process for yourself that this is actually happening.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Oh yeah, yeah, communicate with her and how do.
Speaker 6 (27:11):
Yeah, And I think that the thing is you don't
look forwards or look backwards. With our simes. Everything is
just day by day or like week, and then it's
like a day by day and then it's just half
a day. And as it progresses down the things you
may then reflect back on, aren't you know ten years ago,
(27:36):
it's where it was at a year and a half ago,
and that was the norm, And so yeah, you'd constantly
just processing and constantly just watching this decline and.
Speaker 5 (27:49):
Just living in it day to day. So then I
don't know, maybe sometimes.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
That can make it a little easier, maybe because you're
just staying present with what you're presented with at that time,
rather than reflecting too far back to remember how they
once were.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
I mean, I think the only thing you need to
do is of looking forward is the understanding what plans
might need to be in place for care.
Speaker 6 (28:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Other than that, you really just need to have to
stay present in that moment because every day, like you're saying,
can be completely different. Yeah, and you think you have
an understanding where things appened, and the whole thing changes.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
Again, did your mum remember both of you up and
Rasha up until we're passing?
Speaker 6 (28:33):
Yeah, so she didn't pass away from Alzheimer's. You don't
sort of usually sort of do that, you know something,
because the body is breaking down, it ends up being
something else. And so whilst it was this long process,
she actually passed away from like severe pancrea titus and
went into the hospital thinking, you know, she just had
(28:53):
gastro or something, and then within a week.
Speaker 5 (28:55):
So we it sort of happened very very quickly.
Speaker 6 (28:58):
But we were fortunate that with her version of our
summer she still did remember us. And I think it
comes back to because she just had so much love
and so much feeling and emotion that any time she
saw us there was no way and eventually I'm sure
(29:18):
that would have happened. But in some ways, I'm glad
for her that she left this world still having that
sort of safety of knowing people, not feeling completely alone
and in an unknown environment, that she still knew that.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
And it was always just I mean, with three grandchildren,
how much joy they brought to her, regardless of where
her mental state was, that she understood who they were
and just how much joy. I think that's what we
kind of hang on to the most, absolutely. Yea.
Speaker 6 (29:59):
But even like in the hospital where she was basically
like a sleep for the week, essentially the moments that
she could open her eyes and look, she knew it
was me, and I just I'm so glad that she
had that safety and comfort.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Absolutely, And look, you know, for us, it's important to
continue to keep her memory alive. And like we said
earlier in the Chad Ashes sort of naturally doing that
himself now where she's catching the cricket ball, she catches well.
(30:38):
But you know, so I don't know if anyone listening.
Sometimes you might just want to shut it all down,
but I think in the long term, it's really important
to keep those memories alive as much as possible if
it's part of your family story. And no matter how
you know, for young children you feel open to talk
about them, don't just shut down because it might be
(31:00):
a hard conversation to navigate or you're worry about how
the talking about death would affect a young child. They
kind of understand way more than sometimes they give them
credit for. And Ash just showed that and prove that
with regards to his comment about the Lion King, we
didn't even think understood. He knew, we just weren't willing
to talk about it.
Speaker 6 (31:21):
Absolutely, But there's so many ways that you can, like
as simple as you know, like the Nanny Bicki's. You know,
I kind of think, you know, in the years to come,
Ash's going to reflect on these, aren't It's biscuits, and
they're always going to be known as Nanny Bicki's. You
might not really remember what she was, like, what they
talked about, you know, things like that, because he was young,
(31:42):
but there's just that little subtle reference that he will
have forever.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
I think things like that are nice and important to have.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
Yeah, and like you were saying before, for the people
listening to go and find those people in their communities,
and yeah, little worlds that will help.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
No one's of course, no one's ever going to replace
your mum or the grandmother. But you have other people
you can lean on and rely on, people who want
to help, to help and be therefore you. And I
think that's really important. And you know, we've got photos
of Michelle, Nanny and Asher together. There's a great photo.
They're sitting on separate swings and they're kind of holding
(32:20):
hands together swing And it's interesting now because as she
was little, but he loves he loves seeing Nanny, but
he also loves seeing himself as a younger version of himself.
He's kind of really enjoying that too. So I think
that that kind of helps keeping all the memories and
the feeling. It's about a feel, like Lots was saying,
Michelle worked off feelings. She might have been able to
communicate everything, but if something was important to her through
(32:44):
a feeling, she would respond and understand. I think it's
the same way when it comes to that recognition and
having those feelings at home and what that person meant
to you in your life and to your family's life.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Thank you for being so open and talking to us
about something so close to you.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Both of you.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Got a good fun, come to work.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
Let's do this again, a sleep after the.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Diet. You are a remarkable person and you do having
so much love to give like your mum and so.
Speaker 6 (33:23):
You know, very grateful.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
Thanks, thank you for listening to Wigle Talk.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
So thank you, Oh.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Thank you, Locky, and of course once again, thank you Los.
That is awful. Will talk this week. I might need
a week to recover.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
That's okay, I've got this. If you want to rate us,
please review and rate.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yes, and yes you do that because we still don't
know how to do that. But if you have that technology,
well it goes a long way because what happens Locky, Yes,
it helps other people find.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Us, it does.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Thank you for listening and we'll see you later.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Thanks for listening. We will talk. It's a podcast for parents.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Bye bye bye bye bye
The Wiggles acknowledge the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia
and their connections to land, see and community. We pay
our respects to elders, past, present and emerging.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to Wiggle Talk. We are a podcast for parents and.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
We are we? How are we today?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I'm Lucky Gillespie, the Purple Wiggle.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Hello Simon, Hello Lucky, I'm Simon. I'm the Red Wiggle.
Now this episode today is going to be a little
bit different for us. Today we're going to talk to Lauren,
my beautiful wife. Lauren's here. Now, it's not that kind
of usual guest scenario here on the Pods. A little
bit different because you know, Lauren's my wife, Ash's mum,
and well, we've been living through something that's sort of
(00:52):
very real in our family, so I thought we'd talk
about today. We're talking about mothering without your mother. Now,
Lauren mum a little while ago, and one of those
things that we've been navigating is a family is what
it means to keep parenting, to keep showing up and
keep being a mum while also carrying the absence of
your own mum. Now, just to be clear, this isn't
(01:14):
a conversation about parenting without grandparents altogether, because that isn't
our reality. She still has grandparents in his life. This
is more specifically about the loss of that mother figure
for Lauren, the person you might have imagined calling, leaning on,
asking questions, sharing milestones with, or watching become a grandmother
(01:34):
as your child grows, because when you become a parent,
there are so many moments where you want your mom
there to ask things like is this normal to share
the little things, to hear what you were like at
that age, To have someone who knows you as both
their child and now as a parent yourself, And when
that person isn't physically here anymore, it changes something, not
(01:56):
just in your grief, but also in your motherhood. Now,
this isn't something that has just happened, but as we
all know, grief doesn't move in a straight line. It
takes time to even feel ready to talk about it.
And being able to talk about it doesn't mean you've
processed at all or that everything now all of a
sudden feels okay. It's something that keeps changing as life
(02:17):
keeps moving. For us, a big part of that has
been working out how we keep Lauren's mum present in
our family thought, both for Lauren and myself and especially
for Asher. Because Asha knew his grandmother, which we feel
so blessed about. He remembers her, So this isn't about
helping him know someone never met. It's about helping him
(02:37):
hold them to someone he loved and making sure she
stays part of his stories he grows up.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
And we wanted to have this conversation on wigged Talk
because so many parents are carrying some version of this.
You might be raising children after losing your mum or dad,
trying to keep someone's memory alive, or realizing that becoming
a parent can make you miss your own parent in
a completely different way.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Luren, Well, as we call you loss or eyes, I
call you a little pumpkin pie. I don't really we
might start doing that. Welcome to wiggle Talk.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Hello darling, come to work day. Isn't it fun?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
And you're sharing the couch together?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
It's lovely. It's nice to have you here.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
And this will be a lovely chat.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Loss.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
We have tissues ready, but we just want to first
of all, get to know your your mum and what
she was like. What was your mom like for you.
And then for Asher, Oh.
Speaker 5 (03:34):
My Godady, she was the best.
Speaker 6 (03:41):
She was kind, she was supportive, encouraging, and she just
had so much love to give.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
She was wonderful.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
You know, your mom loved to laugh. That was one
of the great memories I have, your momies her laughter.
This is terrible.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
How long ago did your mom pass?
Speaker 6 (04:07):
This is still very fresh. We'll not super presh. Actually
it'll be two years in August, okay, so, but it
always feels new.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, never, it's not new.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
No, it's not necessarily about those sort of big moments
or milestones. Is that it's just the day to day. Yeah,
those memories you know obviously that I have with your
mum and you have of course, but then also that
Asha has, and I think it's lovely that we feel
very fortunate that he was old enough, yes to experience
(04:43):
his name.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Yeah, and they had a great time together.
Speaker 6 (04:46):
You know, she obviously she couldn't sort of be there
like you know, maybe other grandparents can be like, you know,
helpful babysitters as such, but she wasn't able to do that.
But they had such a beautiful relationship and loving relationship
when they were together, and they would just you know,
(05:07):
she would make him laugh, he would make her laugh,
and she just she would just always say, oh, he's
so good.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
And for everyone listening, Loss's mum was diagnosed with early
onset Alzheimer's. So she was in her early sixties when
she got Alzheimer's. And so for those first couple of
years of Ash's life before he went to daycare preschool,
Loss and Ash, you were your mum's every day, helping
her because she needed help before she ended up going
to a home. And so for those first couple of
(05:44):
years of Ash's life, literally he was with his nan
every day. You know, they'd go over and because you
were having to shop for her and do all those
sort of things for her, and so it was, you know,
you were her main care and so Asha they had
this great bond from such a young age because of
the amount of time together. Yeah, and that changed a
bit as the years went on because of her illness,
(06:05):
but they always had that little connection and she would say, oh,
he's so gorgeous. Like and Michelle's form of Alzheimer's was
she could still comprehend, but she couldn't communicate, So you
knew that she was understanding what was being said. To her.
You knew she got everything that was going on, but
she couldn't then articulate into words. She couldn't form her
(06:28):
words anymore to actually to say what she was feeling.
But she'd always get out, he's so gorgeously.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
He love you, love you, love you, love you, love you.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Timing wise, then, was that you'd had Asher before your
mom started?
Speaker 6 (06:43):
No, so she so she was Dino's sixty two. She
passed at seventy one.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
So for.
Speaker 5 (06:51):
A lot, I guess it was only those.
Speaker 6 (06:53):
Last few years really, all last how old's usha five
years for three and a half years that they had together.
But she, I mean, Alzheimer's presents differently for everyone, and
straight away from the get go it was word finding
for her.
Speaker 5 (07:10):
She would, you know, lose words and.
Speaker 6 (07:11):
Lose that ability to articulate and communicate.
Speaker 5 (07:15):
But she weirdly didn't forget things as such, anything that she.
Speaker 6 (07:21):
Had feeling about or that made her feel emotional about
something in some capacity she would remember. So you could say, oh,
you know, Mom, we're going to go to the shops
or whatever, go for a walk, you know, did you
have some breakfast? You know, just making conversation to help
you know, encourage her to talk and do all of that,
and she'd be like.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
No, I don't know, like not not no.
Speaker 6 (07:44):
But then we would be walking through the shopping center, say,
and she would manage in some capacity to say, oh,
I was here last week with Linda. One of her
care is because she would have a lovely time with her.
She would feel something about that, so she could recall.
But yeah, she couldn't recall if you just asked her
a day to day like did you have a shower
(08:06):
this morning? She wouldn't wouldn't know, which I guess is
part of that short term memory thing, but yeah, she
would still remember things.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
Yeah, it just presents differently.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
I think that's really I was asking. So you had
Asher for those first few years that you had to
go and do all that mmmm, all that work with
your mum. So that was probably a really lovely thing
for you. Yeah, to have Asha there with you as
opposed to not having Ashy yet and having to go
and be and see your mom like that by yourself.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah, it's probably really nice to have.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Is there a standout memory that you have between Asher
and and your mom?
Speaker 6 (08:45):
There's quite a few, but weirdly, there's this one particular memory,
I went over to shower her at her place before
she moved into a home, and she had this step
ladder and I was trying to get her in the
shower and get her out of the shl that was
also trying to look after Asher, you know, toddler running
around because he's quite a busy child, and he found
(09:08):
the step ladder, of course, and so he was climbing
up the step ladder and doing all of that, and
you know, then Mum was showered and dressed, and I
just stepped back and watched them on this step ladder
just like because she was you know, it was amazing
because she showed this innate mothering ability that you know,
(09:29):
never leaves you, and she's making sure he's okay and
getting him down and walking him up and doing all
of that, and just stepping back and just seeing that
moment is so so clear in my mind of you know.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
Such a small thing.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
I mean, there's so many beautiful memories, but yeah, that
one sort of stands out in her place before she
moved into the home, and it wasn't her place anymore.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Where when she did move into the High Mass, she said,
why do so many people live with Nanny.
Speaker 6 (10:02):
Because I didn't make a big thing. You know, she's
in this home. You know, he was too young to
really understand, but he also he understood that this is
not Nanny's home, and I know we're going to a
different place, and I'm like, this is where Nanny lives. Now.
You know, there's some extra people here to just help
and have, you know, because she lived by herself and
(10:24):
now it's nice and she's got other people to be
around all the time, you know, just trying to make.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
Positive of all of it.
Speaker 6 (10:30):
And yet he just goes, why are there so many
people at Nannie's house all the time?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
What does he kind of say, now, how has that
changed in the conversation.
Speaker 6 (10:41):
With There's not a lot of talk as such. There's
sort of just memory kind of things that we do.
Like we'll go to her pluck which is down at
the pond, and so it's just a lovely time to
go and have a picnic. And he looks at the
turtles and does all of that and you know, talks
to Nanny and.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
He's got his there's a little Lego figurines down there
at the park and a little racing cars and he's
put there for Nanny.
Speaker 6 (11:07):
Yeah, so he wanted to have a Nanny Lego and
an Ash lego. So went to the Lego store in
the city where you can make the little legos, and
he made one of Nanny and one of him and
we went and they lived down at the park, and
so they're always But then I found it. We found it.
Speaker 5 (11:26):
She was at someone else's assume a child came past
and was like, oh, and be carrying it. And then
that parent went, oh, my goodness, where did that come from.
Speaker 6 (11:36):
That's not our.
Speaker 5 (11:41):
Everything there is very precious.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
Yeah, we've got the little lego and we've got things
like Nanny Bickie's. So whenever he went to her place,
and she'd have particular biscuits and things like that, and
we still refer to them as Nanny Bickie's and we
still get them. And they would always have like a
lemomorane tart. He would have a lem range tarts his favorite,
(12:06):
and she would have apricot tart and we'd go to
the park, and so anytime we get a lemorange tart,
we refer to Nanny. And he'll sometimes go to the
picture of her on the wall at home and show
a drawing that he did or something.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
And sometimes she even plays cricket with us.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Actually, yeah, that's right. Yeah, she's a good catch.
Speaker 6 (12:30):
Picture and that goes Nanny cricket, and so they play
a cricket. But even when we sometimes play outside now
he goes and gets her picture and says on Nanny
can be the audience and takes her photo and sits
it outside, and she's part of the audiences.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, it's very much a part of his life.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
Yeah, we just keep those memories and.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
He kind of I mean it was obviously instigated bars,
but he's kept that going too.
Speaker 6 (12:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Way he references Nanny and stuff within the home and
things and things that obviously connected and meant something to
him when she passed. We didn't quite know how to
frame it. I think we've talked about this before, but
we kind of just said, you know, Nanny's gone to
sleep and went down that path. But it wasn't until
he watched Lion King where Morefassa dies in Lion King.
(13:21):
Then he said and then he that Ash went, ah,
that's just like Nanny.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
Died like Nanny, And I was like, yeah, Mannie, yeah.
Speaker 6 (13:30):
Yeah, And I thought, okay, this is this is an
opportunity to have that sort of conversation a bit more deeply,
and so, yeah, that is what happened.
Speaker 5 (13:37):
And he died.
Speaker 6 (13:38):
She you know, went to sleep and she died and
she's not going to wake up again like mufassa. And
he drew that connection. And it was a little while
after it was he drew that connection.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
That scene is I remember going to the cinema to
watch that with dad. Dad took us randomly and he
was in tear. That that scene will forever I think
for so many that is so full on.
Speaker 6 (13:58):
Yeah, I'm the same first movie I cried in I
sit next to my dad, climbed onto his lap and
you know, in tears, and I will never forget that.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
When do you kind of feel her the most? Is
it like big milestone moments or is it just like
literally you're at home by on a day to day
basis or all the time?
Speaker 6 (14:20):
Yeah? Yeah, always.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
A lot of the time.
Speaker 6 (14:24):
Like Cooker Burroughs remind us of her. That's a really
special thing. And our family is Cooker Borroughs when we
hear them, and we'll see them when we get Cooko
borrough things, and something really special when actually you know,
started school and they get their house colors and all
of that, and his cousin is in Whale, which is blue.
(14:47):
And technically if you've got family at the school, you
go into the same house. And he came home and
he said, oh, we got our house colors and I said, oh,
what house are you in? He said cook A Burrough
and I was like, away, yeah, which is purple. And
then I thought, oh, maybe I should talk to them
because they've been to sort of be together.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
It's family, and I was like, you know what, I'm
just gonna let let it go.
Speaker 6 (15:11):
You know, amazing that he's in cookabar Like there's just
all these little special little moments that come up through
Cooko bars And I so distinctly remember when we were kids,
you know, driving to go camping and they're being Cooko
barras on the barbed wire and she would always point
them out and.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
Say aren't they.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
God?
Speaker 6 (15:33):
And then seeing Kooko Barra sits in the old gum true,
like just these special things.
Speaker 5 (15:38):
So yeah, but just generally it's just it's just always.
Speaker 6 (15:43):
It's all I kind of think of grief to be
a bit like it's like you've got sand in one hand,
and it's always there and you've still got to try
and manage to do things with two hands, but you're
still you're carrying this all the time and it's like,
try not to let this hands slip through your hands
and you just managed, you managed to maneuver and do things.
(16:05):
But it's always there, and so it's just kind of
always hard. So like milestone sort of things like you know,
Mother's Day things like that, it's not necessarily harder than
any other day because she's not not here more.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
On that day than she's any other day. She's always
not here.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
So yeah, it's interesting too, isn't it. Because the relationship
with your mum over the ten years prior was not
a relationship where and after we had Asher, and there's
also you know, she had other grandchildren as well, it
was a different relationship because so many people rely on
(16:46):
grandparents to be around to help in order and that
wasn't ever the relationship with Michelle and grandchildren because she
didn't have the ability to do that.
Speaker 6 (16:56):
So she wanted to and if she could, she would
be there all the time, and she wanted to, and
there was that tricky stage of her wanting to in
her sort of trying to offer but knowing that she
couldn't and not wanting to remind her that she couldn't.
And so yeah, it was tricky to navigate.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
But it's that.
Speaker 6 (17:16):
Sort of been grieving this time for ten years, like
it's someone My godfather actually sent me a video sort
of early on called The Long Goodbye, and I've never
been able to watch it, and I can barely still
actually say that that's what it is, because it is
(17:38):
it's just a long goodbye.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
It's just gradually changes.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Anyway, from my perspective, one of the saddest things is
that Michelle would have loved nothing more than to be
a present grandmother. Yeah, yeah, And I think that's hardest
thing for her, not because it was for us to
(18:04):
rely on her to help us or to baby said,
just that that for that period in her life, at
the time in her life, she would have loved nothing
more than to be that had that role and be
that person. And I think that's what the hardest thing
is from looking at it from that perspective of losing Michelle,
and you know, Mom and Grandma, she.
Speaker 6 (18:23):
Just still had so much love to give, you know.
So yeah, it's sad for her that she didn't get
to experience that the longer.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, it's not fair at all, is it to.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Use to use this? I don't need the mom fine
as a mom. Now, are there things that you have
wished that you could have asked your mum or things
(18:55):
you realize now about your upbringing that you kind of
relate to yourself as mom? Now do you see yourself
in Michelle as a mum? Yeah?
Speaker 6 (19:05):
I do, And maybe it's just because I'm similar to
her as a person, but just just always being enthusiastic
and playful and loving and all of those sorts of
things support him, encouraging, like all of.
Speaker 5 (19:21):
That was my mum. And I think.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
There's times where, yeah, I'm reminded, I'm like, oh my gosh,
that is just totally my mom. But even things that
Asher does is like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Gene is very strong, very strong.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
A couple of your trip.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Yeah, just putting things in its place and that's about it.
That's about it. But I'm fine with it. I'm just
going to get picked on, not playfully picked on.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
We procrastinate, we get distracted.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
Was not one more thing to do?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Some of what changed for you in the way you
supported Lauren.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Well, I mean, I think such a big focus for
Los was caring for a mum, and so Lauren had
an online fitness business and at the same time we
had Asher. Los's mum was getting quite unwell, and so
I was decided to kind of shut the business down
because it was just too much. It was too much
(20:29):
going on, and Lots would take on the role of
being a sort of full time care for a mum
as well as you know, having a newborn and working
all through all that, and so that took up a
tremendous amount of time. And so when all of a
sudden Michelle passed, that leaves. So your whole day to
day has been based around caring looking after somebody else
(20:51):
as well as your son, and now that changed instantly.
So that was a massive adjustment about trying to work out, Okay,
well what does life look for us now, because that
became our normal, and particularly became loss as normal about
caring for a mum and being the main one of
the main focuses in a life. And I think that
was the biggest transition through all that, and I think
(21:15):
still working through that because and for me, I was
it was about trying to help you navigate through that
that you weren't having those moments of real emptiness and
loss and trying to put other things back into your
life to kind of fell that whole a little bit.
Speaker 6 (21:35):
Yeah, Like I still am programmed to think, oh, okay,
I'll get to ash to school and then I'll go
and see mum or take her out for a walk
or like that is still programmed, and so I still
have those moments of going, oh, oh no, no, no,
I'm not doing that.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
Okay, you know, things like that.
Speaker 6 (22:00):
There's not so much like calling her, you know, or
sending her a text or anything like that, because we.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Couldn't couldn't actually do that because she couldn't.
Speaker 6 (22:10):
Get in the car and go, and so it was
very much a like a program sort of days. And
so I still have those moments of thinking about doing
those things and have to catch myself and then go, oh, no,
I'm not doing that.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
The coffee.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
At all isn't that interesting. That's two years on and
that's still still.
Speaker 6 (22:34):
And I guess maybe part of it is because that's
what you want. Your brain doesn't move on maybe.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
And I think because you you couldn't text or call,
then there was such a physical action. You had to
go to your mum to see You couldn't just check
in over the phone or check in, so it was
a it was an even bigger part of your day
be you physically had to get in the car and
go and be with.
Speaker 6 (23:00):
Physically get a hug. You know, I'm just a chat
on the phone and I'll talk to you tomorrow, will
talk to you next week.
Speaker 7 (23:06):
Like it was always like a physical look on her
face of love and a hug and I love you
so not physically having that in your day is big.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
You get plenty of hugs from Asher, of course, some love.
Speaker 5 (23:31):
I haven't learned yet to stop being so desperate for it.
I need to play hard to.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Get Yeah, that's right, Just might hug please?
Speaker 2 (23:38):
I feel like I think.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Yeah, he said in the car and that I was
driving to work and I was was taking Ash to
school and he said on the phone, Mom, I'm just
going to give you the biggest snuggle when we get
to school and not let go of you so I
don't have to go to stay with me.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
All that means I get a hug yet, you and I.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
And as a family, we've never been a family to
us for much help or support. I think looking back,
particularly in those early stages when ash was born and
your mum was getting sick, we probably should have reached
out to other people, whether it was family members or
worked out how we could get extra help, because that's
(24:26):
kind of made transitions a bit trickier, just even in
general with Ashua, with Loz and I are going out
and having a babysit all that. If we'd actually started
that kind of external support a little bit earlier, I
think would have made life a little bit easier, which is,
in hindsight, a good thing to know and to think about. Yeah,
if you need support, you need to ask for it.
(24:47):
Don't just try to fend for yourself.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
And then wait till you actually have and then.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Go, Okay, what do we do now? Actually ask for
help from people, because most people within your community, and they,
you know, people call it a village, want to help. Yeah,
if you're reaching out and needing support, I.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Think that's a really good point because I think you
both are amazing. We haven't spoken a lot about it,
but a lot of people have support. You really didn't
for that whole time you were going through all that,
and then that must feel so weird then to actually
start asking when.
Speaker 6 (25:18):
Yeah, I find that, I find that's something I find
really sort of hard or triggering. You know, when I see,
you know, families with and ashit he does have other grandparents.
But when you see you know, a mother and daughter,
you know grandparents and they're there and they're helping, and
they're at things and they're doing things, and or you know,
(25:41):
someone sort of talks about their mom's been over to
help and or they've been there, you know, three days
in a row, and oh, she drives me mad.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
And like the things like that, I think, Oh, I
wish my mum was there to drive me mad. You know,
we don't have that luxury.
Speaker 6 (25:57):
And so that's something I find quite a hard when, yes,
you see people being able to experience that, or seeing
people like being really impatient with their parents and or
like short fused or just even you know, come on,
hurry up, like whatever it might be.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
It's so I just want to say, at some point
in your life, you won't have that.
Speaker 6 (26:21):
So and I guess that's the thing with and you know,
just as a person, much like my mum, I'm just
a patient person. But that's something that Alzheimer's also teaches
you you just have to be patient. It's not their fault.
So I might be at the other end of the
scale in terms of being patient with parents, but I
(26:41):
do find that hard when I see children speak to
their parents, especially while they're they're helping with the grandchildren
and being sort of maybe short with them, and that
hurts a bit.
Speaker 5 (26:53):
It's hard, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
That must have been.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
Hard at first to even for you to kind of
acknowledge and get used to with your mum when it
started starting to process for yourself that this is actually happening.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Oh yeah, yeah, communicate with her and how do.
Speaker 6 (27:11):
Yeah, And I think that the thing is you don't
look forwards or look backwards. With our simes. Everything is
just day by day or like week, and then it's
like a day by day and then it's just half
a day. And as it progresses down the things you
may then reflect back on, aren't you know ten years ago,
(27:36):
it's where it was at a year and a half ago,
and that was the norm, And so yeah, you'd constantly
just processing and constantly just watching this decline and.
Speaker 5 (27:49):
Just living in it day to day. So then I
don't know, maybe sometimes.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
That can make it a little easier, maybe because you're
just staying present with what you're presented with at that time,
rather than reflecting too far back to remember how they
once were.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
I mean, I think the only thing you need to
do is of looking forward is the understanding what plans
might need to be in place for care.
Speaker 6 (28:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Other than that, you really just need to have to
stay present in that moment because every day, like you're saying,
can be completely different. Yeah, and you think you have
an understanding where things appened, and the whole thing changes.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
Again, did your mum remember both of you up and
Rasha up until we're passing?
Speaker 6 (28:33):
Yeah, so she didn't pass away from Alzheimer's. You don't
sort of usually sort of do that, you know something,
because the body is breaking down, it ends up being
something else. And so whilst it was this long process,
she actually passed away from like severe pancrea titus and
went into the hospital thinking, you know, she just had
(28:53):
gastro or something, and then within a week.
Speaker 5 (28:55):
So we it sort of happened very very quickly.
Speaker 6 (28:58):
But we were fortunate that with her version of our
summer she still did remember us. And I think it
comes back to because she just had so much love
and so much feeling and emotion that any time she
saw us there was no way and eventually I'm sure
(29:18):
that would have happened. But in some ways, I'm glad
for her that she left this world still having that
sort of safety of knowing people, not feeling completely alone
and in an unknown environment, that she still knew that.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
And it was always just I mean, with three grandchildren,
how much joy they brought to her, regardless of where
her mental state was, that she understood who they were
and just how much joy. I think that's what we
kind of hang on to the most, absolutely. Yea.
Speaker 6 (29:59):
But even like in the hospital where she was basically
like a sleep for the week, essentially the moments that
she could open her eyes and look, she knew it
was me, and I just I'm so glad that she
had that safety and comfort.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Absolutely, And look, you know, for us, it's important to
continue to keep her memory alive. And like we said
earlier in the Chad Ashes sort of naturally doing that
himself now where she's catching the cricket ball, she catches well.
(30:38):
But you know, so I don't know if anyone listening.
Sometimes you might just want to shut it all down,
but I think in the long term, it's really important
to keep those memories alive as much as possible if
it's part of your family story. And no matter how
you know, for young children you feel open to talk
about them, don't just shut down because it might be
(31:00):
a hard conversation to navigate or you're worry about how
the talking about death would affect a young child. They
kind of understand way more than sometimes they give them
credit for. And Ash just showed that and prove that
with regards to his comment about the Lion King, we
didn't even think understood. He knew, we just weren't willing
to talk about it.
Speaker 6 (31:21):
Absolutely, But there's so many ways that you can, like
as simple as you know, like the Nanny Bicki's. You know,
I kind of think, you know, in the years to come,
Ash's going to reflect on these, aren't It's biscuits, and
they're always going to be known as Nanny Bicki's. You
might not really remember what she was, like, what they
talked about, you know, things like that, because he was young,
(31:42):
but there's just that little subtle reference that he will
have forever.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
I think things like that are nice and important to have.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
Yeah, and like you were saying before, for the people
listening to go and find those people in their communities,
and yeah, little worlds that will help.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
No one's of course, no one's ever going to replace
your mum or the grandmother. But you have other people
you can lean on and rely on, people who want
to help, to help and be therefore you. And I
think that's really important. And you know, we've got photos
of Michelle, Nanny and Asher together. There's a great photo.
They're sitting on separate swings and they're kind of holding
(32:20):
hands together swing And it's interesting now because as she
was little, but he loves he loves seeing Nanny, but
he also loves seeing himself as a younger version of himself.
He's kind of really enjoying that too. So I think
that that kind of helps keeping all the memories and
the feeling. It's about a feel, like Lots was saying,
Michelle worked off feelings. She might have been able to
communicate everything, but if something was important to her through
(32:44):
a feeling, she would respond and understand. I think it's
the same way when it comes to that recognition and
having those feelings at home and what that person meant
to you in your life and to your family's life.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Thank you for being so open and talking to us
about something so close to you.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Both of you.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Got a good fun, come to work.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
Let's do this again, a sleep after the.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Diet. You are a remarkable person and you do having
so much love to give like your mum and so.
Speaker 6 (33:23):
You know, very grateful.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
Thanks, thank you for listening to Wigle Talk.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
So thank you, Oh.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Thank you, Locky, and of course once again, thank you Los.
That is awful. Will talk this week. I might need
a week to recover.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
That's okay, I've got this. If you want to rate us,
please review and rate.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yes, and yes you do that because we still don't
know how to do that. But if you have that technology,
well it goes a long way because what happens Locky, Yes,
it helps other people find.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Us, it does.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Thank you for listening and we'll see you later.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Thanks for listening. We will talk. It's a podcast for parents.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Bye bye bye bye bye
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