January 12, 2026 • 38 mins
Children’s music is everywhere - but most of us have never stopped to think about the people behind it (or why those songs hit kids so hard). This week on Wiggle Talk, Anthony joins Simon and Lachy in the studio with award-winning filmmaker Penny Lane, director of the HBO Original documentary If You’re Happy and You Know It! - a fascinating behind-the-scenes look at the artists who write the earworms, perform to the world’s toughest audience, and shape so many of our daily parenting moments. You’ll come away hearing your child’s favourite songs (and your role in them) a little differently.
THE HBO ORIGINAL DOCUMENTARY IF YOU’RE HAPPY AND YOU KNOW IT IS AVAILABLE NOW ON HBO MAX. YOU CAN WATCH IT HERE.
HOSTS
Simon Pryce
Lachlan Gillespie
Anthony Field
GUEST
Penny Lane - @pennyjupiter
PRODUCERS
Produced by The Wiggles and Mylk Media
Madeline Joannou
Nick Webb
Got a question for The Wiggles? Leave a voice message at thewiggles.com/podcast, or email podcast@thewiggles.com.au
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About The Wiggles' Podcast - Wiggle Talk
Welcome to Wiggle Talk, the ultimate parenting podcast brought to you by The Wiggles! With over 30 years of experience in early childhood education and a global legacy of entertaining and educating millions of children, The Wiggles are now stepping into the world of parenting to share their journey as parents themselves. This podcast is designed for parents seeking expert advice, relatable stories, and practical tips on raising toddlers.
In Wiggle Talk, you'll join Simon and Lachy, beloved members of The Wiggles, as they explore the real-life challenges and joys of parenting. From handling toddler tantrums to nurturing your child’s early development, Simon and Lachy invite guests to share compelling conversations that will provide valuable insights that every parent can relate to. Whether you're struggling with sleep routines, picky eating, or simply looking for fun and educational activities to do with your little ones, this podcast has got you covered.
Every episode also features founding Wiggle and early childhood expert Anthony Field, who will answer listener questions on topics ranging from child behaviour to effective parenting strategies. With decades of experience and a passion for helping children thrive – as well as being a father of three - Anthony offers trustworthy advice to help you navigate the complexities of raising a toddler.
As parents, we know that the journey can be both rewarding and challenging. That's why Wiggle Talk is here to support you every step of the way. Whether you're a new parent or have been on this journey for a while, you'll find a wealth of information and inspiration in each episode. Plus, you’ll hear from famous friends of The Wiggles who share their own parenting experiences and tips.
So, tune in to Wiggle Talk and join The Wiggles as they swap their skivvies for candid conversations about parenthood. Let's work out this parenting thing together, with a little help from the experts in early childhood education!
About The Wiggles
For over three decades, The Wiggles have been a beloved cornerstone of children's entertainment, captivating and educating millions of
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Wiggles acknowledge the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia
and their connections to land, see and community. We pay
our respects to elders, past, present and emerging.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Welcome to Wiggle Talk, a podcast for parents. I am
Locke the Purple Wiggle.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I'm Simon the Red Wiggle. And we've got a very
special guest with us today.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
We have Anthony the Blue and the Gray Head Wiggle.
Hello Anthony, gooday, Lock good Simon, good day mate.
Speaker 5 (00:35):
It's great to have you back. Now.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
We've got you in today because we're talking about a
brand new documentary called Happy and You Know It, which
you are a part of. The Wiggles are a part
of it, but you were spoken to on that documentary
and this documentary is it's a deep dive in the
world of children's musicians, the people behind the songs that
fill our homes, our cars, our prams and sometimes even
our dreams.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
It follows performers like Laurie Berkner. Now I hadn't heard
a lot. I've always loved her.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
She's amazing, such an accomplished folk musician that she's singing
so beautifully, She writes great songs.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yeah, Casper, Baby Pants, Divinity Rocks, Johnny Only and yes,
the Wiggles are in there too, with Anthony sitting down
for an interview and the camera's coming right into Wiggles
HQ and backstage on tour. But before we get into that.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yes, that's right, this is our banter section, Anthony, Oh wow, yeah,
that's a new section. This is where we talk about
things have been happening in our lives. Oh good, what's
been happening in your life?
Speaker 4 (01:34):
I've been on tour with the Wiggles, I've heard of them,
seen you every day. Far from that, not much.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
Yeah, and what about you, Lockie.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Well, I've been on tour, but you know, this tour
is in the round and it's been been a lot
of fun. Now when the round means full three sixty
arena experience.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
And you know what I've loved musically as you know,
so laws and as she came back stage before ash up,
there we are with our amplifiers, guitars, singing songs at
the time voice and he got it. It was a great moment.
He got his two teddy bears and put him as
he watched that child just being honest.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
Yeah, that's why.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
I keep it down a bit.
Speaker 5 (02:20):
I've got cars to play with Headspace.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
It was, it was so fun. It's so creative to
use Teddy Bears as musk.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
You've just started wearing inn ears.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
I have yet for people listening in is how to
describe number.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Well, they're like INNI monitors, so they're like headphones, but
they you basically hear the whole show through the.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Head During the live show, you've got little earphones in.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
We've got a live band on stage the whole time,
so we've got you know, three guitars, bass player, drama
and a keyboard player, as well as eight singers. And
I've got my own little mix in my years and
because I am you know, I really am losing my
hearing as he is going and such, I love it.
I can hear everybody playing. And boy tell you what, Simon,
(03:09):
you've got a good voice. You guys really see.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
Well you keep saying you turn Simon down.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Not anymore, not anymore because in the in the wedges,
what happens at sound chick, Simon's just not warmed up yet.
So so you hit this beautiful level when the show
comes on and he gets the full voice going and
the voice, you know, you might have to turn it
down a little bit, because that beautiful opera voice comes out.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
It's always early. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Well, thank you again for joining us today, Anthony, because
we're going to be joined by someone very special. We're
joined by the woman behind Happy and you know It.
An award winning filmmaker, Penny Lane.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
Now.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Penny is known for diving into worlds many of us
barely notice and showing us why they actually matter.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
And in this film, she does something really special. She's
taken children's music, something that we love and that every
parent lives with daily, and approaches it with the curiosity
and warmth that you don't often see on screen.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Making music for families is this opportunity to create a
bonding experience.
Speaker 6 (04:15):
Doing something that's true to who I am and what
I want.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
To create for kids.
Speaker 6 (04:20):
It's kind of a huge job.
Speaker 7 (04:22):
We were all little kids, and this music is touching
that little person inside of you who still believes in
a little bit of magic, and we all needed.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
She spent time with musicians who've dedicated their entire careers
to performing for children, and she captures the creativity, the heart,
and the exhaustion all the things parents don't usually get
to see.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
So today we want to hear about what Penny discovered
along the way. So let's get into it. Penny, welcome
to Wiggle Talk.
Speaker 6 (04:51):
Yay, thank you for having me. I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Thank you for joining us. Now, for parents listening at
home who might not be across your work, how do
you kind of just describe the kinds of stories that
you're drawn to as a filmmaker.
Speaker 6 (05:03):
So I make documentaries and I'm always just looking for
a couple things. I'm looking to be surprised. I want
to be surprised. I want to be like I had
no idea. Usually that's something you think you know, but
you don't really know, and then you find out how
little you knew about it, and then I'm also looking
for I think delight is the word I'm looking for
(05:26):
delight as an artist. So obviously the world of music
for children hit both those buckets for me.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Children's music artists and children's music. Was that something that
you had wanted to do for a while, in a
story you wanted to tell for a while. All of
a sudden in your day today love something happens you think, oh,
maybe they could be a story there.
Speaker 6 (05:46):
Yeah, it's something happened actually, and something that happened. It's
a little embarrassing because I'm talking to the Wiggles right now,
but the something that happened was actually Baby Shark. For me,
it's important for your viewers to know I'm not a parent.
I'm like a middle aged woman without kids and a cat.
So like children's music just like was completely outside my world,
Like there wasn't any day to day contact with it
(06:07):
at all. I sort of discovered through just like poking
around and doing research on different music stories that Baby
Shark was like the most popular YouTube video of all time.
And I had never even heard of baby Shark at
that point. So like that was the beginning for me
of understanding like, oh, like there's a world of let's
call it pop music for not just children, but like toddlers,
(06:31):
and that that was a universe that I just had
never had never known one thing about, had never thought about,
had never considered. And once I kind of got in
that world, I was like, oh, this would be a
great documentary.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
It's really interesting.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
We think about it here at the Wiggles a lot
because we're so engrossed in our world. We have to
remind ourselves all the time that if you don't have children,
people actually have no understanding of what's going on in
our world at all. And so is that really good reminder?
Oh yeah, yeah, and a good leveler.
Speaker 6 (07:00):
Yeah, because the Wiggles are huge, as you know, but
like someone like me like had no idea. And I
realized once I began my research that like I had
been introduced to the Wiggles through the parody on thirty Rock,
Like I like didn't get that joke, and someone explained
it to me, and I was like, oh, yeah, I
know who the Wiggles are.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
The whole baby Shock story really surprised me on the
documentary that it was a like a camp song from
the eighties and nineties, Is that right?
Speaker 6 (07:26):
Yeah, so nobody knows Baby Shark emerged out of like
the creative comments of like untold numbers of like just
people educators and kids and campers and preschool teachers and
bands who were just like iterating on this song and
no one really knows who wrote it or like where
it kind of came from. But there was a sort
(07:48):
of chanting tradition version of it that was really more
aimed at teenagers at summer camp, and it was like
a bloody, gory affair. Like the whole idea was that
it was like a shark attack song. In each verse
you'd lose a part of your body. Yeah, So it
was like this very gory, bloody affair. And it wasn't
until quite recently that some artists, namely Johnny Only, who's
(08:11):
in my film, sort of adapted it to be more
appropriate for like a toddler audience. Took out all the
blood and gore and kind of put in this kind
of cute family story that now we all know as
like b Shark.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
You know, this must be interesting like those stories with
Johnny Only about baby Shark, which you obviously don't have
any understanding about before you start your research, those little
moments must be something that really surprised you within the storytelling.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
And you must love as.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Well because it puts a whole other level of a
whole element to what is children's music and where childsen
music comes.
Speaker 6 (08:44):
From totally because you know, so I knew a few
things going into it. I knew I wanted like a cast,
like an ensemble cast, and I knew I wanted like
a small number, but you know, kind of a manageable
number of like main characters. So we did five, and
I knew from the beginning one of those as I
started putting together the plan, I wanted one of those
artists to be like a regional artist, because you guys, know,
(09:07):
like a lot of what people experience as music for
children is like that band that plays at the park
on weekends that you take your kid to, you know,
or like in my neighborhood, it's like at Whole Foods.
There's like a guy at Whole Foods and he's there
already Saturday, and I walked past him and there's kids
sitting on the ground in front of him. So we
knew he wanted a regional artist, but I didn't know
I was going to find a regional artist who like
(09:27):
secretly was the force behind Baby Shark global phenomenon. That
was a nice surprise because I knew I wanted to
tell the Baby Shark story, but I wasn't sure how
I was going.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
To do it.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
You've got some incredible artists, so how do you find
your artists the people you want to talk to within
your documentaries. You came across Anthony Field and probably regretting
it ever since, but what approached you? How do you
get to that point?
Speaker 6 (09:54):
Well, the Wiggles was easy, right because, like you know, obviously,
you guys are such pioneers and such, like you know,
important figures in the world. So that was easy. Like
I wanted the Wiggles from the beginning, right because I
sort of wanted to have a couple of artists that
showed just how big the world was too, you know,
And I knew that you guys have been in the
game for so long that I'd also be able to
get some perspective on like maybe how the world has
(10:16):
changed in the last twenty years or so, you know.
So that was kind of a no brainer to get
like superstars, and Laurie Berkner really fits that category as
well in many ways, like she's kind of an elder
and elder oh god, she would kill me if she
heard you say that an elder exactly. So that was
(10:37):
that was kind of easy, Like to get some like
big names that was important to me. But I also
knew that I wanted to cast somebody who was just
getting started in the world of children's music because I knew,
you know that that you'd get like a different kind
of perspective from an artist who maybe has had some
success in a different field but is sort of trying
to figure out what works for children, like in real
(10:59):
time at this moment in their career. So that was
how we found Divinity Rocks because we were looking at
like some more up and coming, like newbies that I
thought we'd get like good perspective from. So that was
important to us too to have something like that. And
then we found Casper baby Pants because I thought there
might be a part for somebody who had had a
(11:20):
sort of big career in adult music and had made
the switch. And he again, for your viewers and listeners
who don't know, Casper baby Pants is the children's music
moniker for a guy named Chris Blue who had been
pretty famous in the nineties with a band called Presidents
of the United States of America, which had a couple
like huge hits, Peaches being one of them and Lump
(11:45):
and so finding him and also he's so articulate and
funny and smart, like I knew he'd be good in
the cast too, But it was a long process. We
probably spend the longest amount of time if you look
at the calendar, like just on casting, like really trying
to hone in that small cast because we wanted to
be able to go deep with each per You wanted
to have enough time with each person to get somewhere
interesting and not just have a bunch of talking heads
(12:06):
show up and say two sentences each or something.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
And you had to fly to Australia. I mean that
takes a little that time.
Speaker 6 (12:11):
Yeah, well, I think you know, a big sad day
for me to Australia. It was so fun.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
We had a great time. Yeah, it was fantastic. Oh,
there's there's a pussy cat. There's your cat. You talked
about timeline. What is the timeline for you when you
have an idea for a documentary and then you get
all your guests together and people going to talk to
How long is the process for you?
Speaker 6 (12:33):
I would say on average it's about two years. I
think this film was about two years from kind of
conception to release. Yeah, do you.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
Have other ideas like are you creating this one? Happening?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
You know it and at the same time you're thinking
about what's next? Do you have to go through that process?
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (12:48):
Yeah, I'm always working on more than one film at
a time. It would go crazy if I had to
work on just one movie at a time because they
take so long to make and sometimes there's like long
delays for things you can't control. And if I had
to sit around, like, you know, waiting for things to happen,
I go nuts. So yeah, I'm usually working on two
to three films at a time.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
Wow, are they top secret? Pity? Can you tell us
what you're working on now?
Speaker 6 (13:12):
No, they're not top secret. The next film is already done.
Actually we're just figuring out the release for it, and
it's about an owl who escaped from the Central Park Zoo. Animal.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Anthony was just telling us the story just before this,
about the power owl of the powerful alow.
Speaker 6 (13:31):
A powerful Yeah. I tried to see that when I
was in Sydney.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
I didn't get to you know what, the powerful al
Australia is very we name things without very much imagination.
So we've got a place where I played cricket, the
game and it's called the Sydney Cricket Ground. We've got
a sandy desert, it's called the Great Sandy Desert.
Speaker 6 (13:50):
So someone a great Sandy desert and you'rebout one that's
like my.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Favorite, that's brilliant. So someone with desert.
Speaker 6 (13:59):
Let me tell you it's Sandy is right.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
But there was also the Powerful owl. Obviously he's a
powerful owl and they said they called it the Powerful owl.
But in Sydney's East and suburbs at the moment, they've
had a bit of a problem because there are endangered
species of owl and the powerful owl's been taking domestic
cats and domestic little puppies and things. So there's a
(14:23):
bit of a cultural thing going on with a powerful owl.
And I know it's a bit of a diversion, but
I know how much you love BirdLife, and it was
really great to watch your perspective on Australia's bird life
sitting there and naming the birds, and I was going, well,
I didn't know what was called that, So that was fantastic.
(14:44):
On another and now you've done a documentary about it.
Speaker 6 (14:47):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I've been a birder for like
twenty five years, but this is my first documentary where
I finally got to like put all my birding knowledge
into effect. So this bird started out as a zoo
animal and was escaped from the zoo. Had been born
in the zoo, His parents and his grandparents had all
been born in the zoo. These were captive owls that
just sat in little, tiny boxes like So this owl
(15:09):
had been in like a bus stop sized cage for
thirteen years before I'd escaped, and when it first escaped,
he couldn't even really fly. He could certainly not hunt
for himself. He'd never hunted. So the story is really
about what happened when this happened, and how this owl
like evolved and became a wild owl in New York
City in Central Park. Yeah, it's a great story. I
(15:31):
love this owl. People will just fall in love with him.
He's so handsome.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Oh, I want to know what happened to him that
that sounds like a children's movie.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Well, I think I think he enjoyed listening to children's
music in Central Park.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
I think yes.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
And it was a joy too, because I got to
really spend you know, I live in New York City,
but I can't say I spend that much time in
Central Park. So I spent so much time in Central
Park to make that film, and it was such joy,
Like I really, you know, got so much out of that.
But that's one of the great things about my job,
and I get to like travel the world. I get
to go places where I wouldn't normally get to go.
I got to hang out at Wiggles HQ for like
two whole days, which is not something that just like
(16:08):
the general public gets to do. So I get these
kind of like backstage passes into worlds that I just
feel so lucky that I get to like be in.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
You know, Benny, what if your crew was for Austria
and we were singing some Austrian folks songs together. I
loved that.
Speaker 6 (16:25):
So that was a great, great life experience for me.
We stayed up very late saying it's he's Swedish by
the way, so.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Well that very similar to Austrian.
Speaker 5 (16:39):
We met Gabriel backstage.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
He came to one of the shows and he just
burst out into the Swedish song.
Speaker 6 (16:46):
He loved singing, I mean, and that was one of
the things, like, you know, getting back to this movie
that we made altogether, but like just seeing like how
much I strive and Gabriel, my business partner and producing partner,
like we literally like formed a company, and the company
motto is that we choose to lol, like we are
trying to experience joy. We are trying to like you know,
(17:07):
look for it and like appreciate it and have fun
at work. And it was like so inspiring and fun,
Like I thought I was going to lose Gabriel to
you guys, Like he was like, how do I abandoned
ship on this whole indidocumentary thing and like get the
Wiggles to hire me? Because he just like wants to
sing all day like for him, like that is the
(17:27):
most joyful thing he could imagine.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I think we have that very similar philosophy here at Wiggles.
It's all about fun. If we're not having fun, then
our audience isn't going to have fun. Did you find
that with the other other art that you spoke to.
Was there a common theme about that with regards to
children's music or do some take it incredibly? We all
take it seriously, but do some lose the fun because
of what they're trying to create?
Speaker 6 (17:49):
Not in my cast. I'm sure it's happened. You know,
you guys might have more insight into that than me,
but no. In my case, like I very much related
to the artists that we were profiling because they shared
that spirit of just like you know, and there's somehow
like you know, there's this kind of idea that it's
not cool, like it's not cool to have fun, or
it's not cool to be silly, and it's not cool
(18:10):
to like be goofy and have a laugh, or even
that that's not real good art, right, Like there's kind
of like a snobbish idea that like great art has
to be serious, which I've been shaving against my whole
career because I like to have fun at work. I
like to make movies that are fun and funny and entertaining,
and I also feel like my movies have depth and
seriousness to them. So I have like a little chip
(18:31):
on my shoulder about that. I realized as I was, like,
you know, Laurie Berkner in particular in the film speaks
really beautifully about how, especially when she first got started,
she let that attitude really affect her, like it really
made her feel a little embarrassed that she was doing
music for children and that it was silly and fun,
and she took her a while to like kind of
(18:53):
get over that and except that, like what she's doing
is important and even if it's funny and cute, it
could still be like really important for the world. Do
you guys relate.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
To that absolutely. You know, when we started, people used
to always say so, even interviews, would you like to
do real music?
Speaker 6 (19:10):
Yeah, real music, And we're doing real music.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
The great thing about children's music is because we know
our audience are probably more open than adults to music,
to all styles of music. So that's a great challenge
for a children's performer that you can do classical music,
you know, folk music, rock music, jazz, country, as long
as it relates to the child. So I always used
(19:33):
to say to we're doing real music, and we're doing
different genres and we're having a great time, and I'm
not missing out on anything.
Speaker 6 (19:40):
No, not at all. But yeah, you can see how like,
if you're very self conscious or if your like identity
is like wrapped up with being cool, I would think
maybe this isn't the world for you.
Speaker 7 (19:51):
It's true.
Speaker 6 (19:52):
The first thing I felt was I don't have to
be cool. I'm free of the culture of cool.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
I don't have to be judg And I looked at
that as a gift because from that spot, being creative
is easy.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
You say it in the in the documentary Anthony about
making sure that we speak to children in the language
they understand, which I think is also really important for
parents to understand that there's a reason why things have
done a certain way, and the reason why repetition is
important is actually developmental reasons why all this happens, and
all the artists in the film speak about that as well.
(20:28):
There's an understanding and a reason why we do something,
and it's not just off the cuff and just because
it's because we're talking in a particular language that a
child will understand. And that's I think that's really important
for parents to understand that about children's music, which comes
across really strongly in the film.
Speaker 6 (20:44):
Thank You, Yeah, And I think that, you know, there's
an element of the film there's like a little kind
of scene towards the beginning where we just did like
men on the street interviews with parents in a playground
and we ask them about like what you think about
children's music or whatever, and they kind of did the
expected script, which is like, oh, it's so annoying, you know,
we listen to it over and over again, like you know,
and I really like wanted the film to move from
(21:05):
that to something really profound by the end, like you know,
it's easy to sort of like laugh a little bit
and I'm sure many parents, as even Anthony says in
the film, like his daughter listened to one song seventy
seven times in a row. We know because we counted.
You know, like that can be a little hard on
mom and dad. But you know, it's almost like I
(21:26):
wanted the movie to like convince more parents that this
style of music, this kind of music that's not just
like because a lot of my friends might say, like, whatever,
I don't need the Wiggles, my kids like the Stooges
or whatever, And I think for me, it's like saying, like,
it's great that your kid loves this Stooges. What's great
about kids is they love music. They love all music,
as Anthony said, regardless of genre or whatever. But to
(21:49):
understand the value of music that is engineered for your
child that they understand is theirs and that it's not
the same thing is the music that mom and dad love,
but that it's music that's for them. That just seemed
to me like such an important message to get across,
that like it's more than just like the dumbed down
(22:10):
adult stuff. It's like actually, like you know, really valuable
that it's made for them. And the thing that I
realized throughout making the film. I mean, we on the team.
When you're making a music documentary, you're listening to this
music all day every day. It's in the edit, you're
you know, constantly playing these songs. And our movie has
like one hundred and twenty songs in it, and every
one of them's in Earworm, and we just seeing how
(22:35):
much joy it brought us, all adults, mostly without children
or our own, just like us singing Hot Potato, like us,
singing Baby Shark, like us adults. Like, I was like,
this music's not just good for kids, it's good for
adults too, because it reminds you to like stop taking
things so seriously and to smile and have fun and
(22:56):
like you know all that stuff too. So that was
also really important for me to try to get across
that it's like not just like something that like adults
have to suffer through for their children's sake, but that
like if you can like you know, enjoy yourself and
have fun too, you'll like it too. Like we should
all have a song that we play in the morning
and get up and dance to. We'd all be a
lot happier.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
Yeah, that's very true.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
That really does come across in the film Penny. That
message it's and it's a really important message for parents
and for children as well to accept their world and
the world they're in and then we're part of our
role as parents is to kind of harness that help
and that's what children's music does. It was even talking
before about being cool, as Caspa balue pads. I think
(23:38):
he said that Madonna spoke to him and said, if
you're having fun, you'll never win awards.
Speaker 6 (23:47):
That's a career advice from Madonna. And it was basically, yeah,
because what you do is funny and fun, it's just
going to like fly under the radar of like serious critics,
you know. And he said, like it was a huge
gift to be told that or in his career because
he never looked for that kind of recognition because he
he sort of understood that he wasn't going to be
(24:07):
getting it anytime soon, even if it's well crafted, even
if it's very well crafted, as you know.
Speaker 5 (24:13):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
I mean, you know, to write songs, whether they're adult
or children, is complex. And you see that in the
documentary as well, because a lot of artists are a
one person band and they're in the studio, they're pushing record,
they're going back to their instrument, they're doing vocals. There's
a lot of hard work involved in creating these songs
for children. And then on top of that, which you
(24:34):
show so beautifully, is the live aspect to it, doing
live shows where they're on their own, they're putting the
set up, they're doing it all the pa the audio.
You know, there's a lot involved, which I think parents
can take for granted and not quite understand.
Speaker 6 (24:49):
But the film yeah shows that absolutely. Yeah, I'm glad
that came across to you.
Speaker 5 (24:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (24:54):
And it's also the case that, like, you know, that
was also important to us. We were making a music documentary,
like that's the genre of documentary were making, so so
we wanted to focus on musicians who are like doing
this as musicians. So that's why the movie is not
about like I forgot the names of all the famous
Disney movies that are like really important, I don't know
it that's the one liked with Elsa anyway, So we
(25:15):
didn't do a story about like you know, Disney and
PBS and Sesame Street, like we were like, this is
about musicians, like musical artists who are doing that for a.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
Living happy you know it. That's another song which just
just come to us from who knows who was Yeah,
if you're happy, you know it. But we recently went
around Timo Leste, which is in the north of Australia
(25:44):
and it's a very poor country, and uh we lent
around there and I speak English. A lot of the
children were sang if you're happy and you know it.
But look what they had their own in their own language.
They had their own actions, didn't they that.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
They then taught us whole new verses so they could
recognize the tune even with us singing it in English.
And then they sang to us in their their language.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
And made their own actions.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
They added whistling, they added laugh.
Speaker 6 (26:14):
I would love sure that. That is so cool.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
That's it's such a great name because you know, whoever
wrote it back in the day, thank you for that.
Where you are, because it's.
Speaker 6 (26:25):
Like about not getting any credit for the craft of children.
We don't even know what.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
I would think. Wherever, they are very happy that you've
named the doc yeah you know it.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Yeah, was there anything that really surprised you in making
the film?
Speaker 5 (26:42):
With regards to the artists, the children's music.
Speaker 6 (26:44):
Yeah, I think like once you really start imagining, like
you know, it's easy to think, Okay, well that's probably
pretty easy, like you know, play a few simple tunes,
you know, and kids will enjoy it because kids like
anything or whatever. It was really like the thing that
really got me was just doing it myself, like, you know,
the idea of standing up in front of a group
of children, like one of the artists in the film
(27:06):
Divinity Rocks she talks about. I mean she toured with
Beyonce as her co musical director and bass player for
four years. She stood in auditoriums in front of like
fifty thousand people, right and felt totally confident in her
in her moment. And when she transitioned to starting to
do these really small shows but in front of a
bunch of like five year olds, she realized it was
(27:26):
incredibly intimidating. The kids are just staring at her. They're like,
they're not conditioned to pretend to like it. If they
don't like it, like they're very honest and they'll just
walk away. And that's what really surprised me was like
how little I thought I had ever thought before about
how intimidating it would be to like actually try to
hold the attention of a group of kids.
Speaker 7 (27:48):
They're looking at everything with this sort of hmm, impress me,
what are you going to do that's different?
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Ah, I get intimidated buy his low gids.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
And there's a gag in the where we tried to
do like expert interviews with like zero to five year
olds and there's a gag and where we kind of
try to bring them in and put them in the
interview chair, but they won't sit in the chair. Like
it was a complete failure, but it really spoke to
the themes of the film, where like, you know, you
just can't treat kids like little adults, like you have
(28:20):
to do it in a whole new way. We were
able to sing with them once we got them in
the chair. We could like start singing wheels in the
bus and they might kind of sing along. But you know,
we got very little interview material out of that day.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
To hear.
Speaker 6 (28:36):
But there is one part that like just melts my
heart every time where there's a scene, a kind of
section of the film where we're talking about lullabies and
one of the things that we asked our kid experts,
you know, our zero to five year olds in the
interview chair, was what do you love about music? This
one child's answered, I like to sit next to my mom,
And like I could just cry thinking about that, Like
(29:00):
that's the thing you should love about music, Like that
is the thing you should love about music, is that
it connects you to other people, especially people that you love. See,
I'm getting teary thinking about it. Like that's the most
profound answer I've ever heard, So, like what do you
love about music?
Speaker 4 (29:15):
But it continues to pinny, it continues to not just
children and moms and dads adults. That's what music is.
Grateful connecting, connects us.
Speaker 6 (29:25):
Yeah, and you were just talking about punishing across languages,
I mean generations languages. Like it's it's such a connected force.
And it's so easy as you get into you know,
as soon as you start getting into like what's cool
or like is it cool at your school to like
this artist or that artist? And like you know, whose
band T shirt do you wear? And how does that
sort you socially at college or something? All that comes
(29:49):
on top at some point. But what's amazing about watching
children react to music is that it's none of that's
there like it's so pure. They're not like what's cool
or what are my friends like? Or like what will
like make this girl want to date me or something?
You know, it's just like, you know, what does this
make me feel? And like am I feeling it with
(30:10):
the person? You know next to me? That's what art
is all about?
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Yeah, sure is divinity rocks. She kind of mentions it
when she talks about the bass is her kind of
cool thing, right, and she plays the bass and isn't
that cool? And the parents think it's cool and she
does a great kind of lick on the but the
children don't.
Speaker 6 (30:27):
Care very so low.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
That's right. You know, it's a great.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Thing for children to see musical instruments, all those kinds
of things, but the actual coolness of what we will
classes coolness, the children just not interested at all, which
I thought was a really you know, yeah, obviously what
she spoke to you about.
Speaker 6 (30:47):
They're not looking for like that kind of show offie virtuosity,
are they. I mean, you know, you want to be
good at what you're doing, but that's not they're not
like impressed by your like you.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
I think with the children, it's because children ecocentric thinker
is it has to relate to them, Right, They've got
nothing that would be Anything you do is going to go, well,
what's in it for the child? What are they going
to That's.
Speaker 6 (31:12):
A good way to put it. Yeah, it has to
relate to them. It has to relate to them first
and foremost. That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Yeah, if there's something you'd like the parents to take
away from this film and this is for the parents,
what would that be?
Speaker 6 (31:23):
Oh, just to like notice and appreciate how much music
connects you to your child. And again, it doesn't have
to be music that's made for children, as we all know,
it's any music at all, but just to really like
appreciate that and to pay attention to it and to
think about like what it is that you're like feeding
them kind of culturally. Like one of the critics in
(31:43):
our film says, it's toward the end of the film,
like all of this stuff is like raw material. It's
like we're shaping the culture of the future with like
the art that we choose to sort of engage with
our children on. So I feel like that's something that's
really beautiful and important to think about. But more emotionally,
it's just about like appreciating and enjoying that bonding experience
(32:05):
and seeing it for one of this and maybe even
like jumping in a little more themselves, because I think
a lot of parents can be feel embarrassed to like
sort of really get down, you know, like really like
just have a dance party with your kids or even
sing a lullaby. I have friends who told me that
it was a real struggle for them to like learn
to sing lullabies to their baby, even their little infant,
(32:27):
because they just didn't feel like they were a good
singer and they didn't know what to sing. And I thought,
you know, that would probably be me if I were
a parent, I'd probably be one of those parents who's, like,
what do you like, I don't know what to sing?
But to really just like appreciate that and to like
get into it and realize definitely not about whether you're
a good singer when it comes to like bonding with
your infant or your toddler, and no one cares if
(32:49):
you're a good dancer, and that like it's just about
Anthony says in the movie that he can't dance at all,
so he feels like he can. He's on the same
level as an infant.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Who's children are so forgiving. I just love that you're
making an effort to entertain them. So what you're saying
is exactly right, Penny. Just get in there and have
a sing. Your children will love it.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Well, it's such a wonderful film, Penny, and I think
you the message you wanted to get across certainly does
get across. And I love it how showcases the Wiggles
and Anthony, and we don't always get to see it,
but seeing Anthony in that environment where he could talk
so eloquently about why.
Speaker 5 (33:32):
That only ever happens, Yeah, it doesn't happen.
Speaker 6 (33:36):
Like philosophy about children's music all day.
Speaker 5 (33:40):
Daren No, Well we'll do to a point.
Speaker 6 (33:44):
Not you're mostly saying we need more cow bell in
the song or whateppen.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yeah, basically basically that's it. But also hearing you know what,
other artists experience the same things that we do, and
everyone's going through those same challenges to have the same
result to create music for children, and that really comes
across the film.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
A brilliant film, Penny. It really is a brilliant film,
and it gives a credit for a genre of music
that is sort of swept under the carpet a bit.
So it's great for people to see the work that
goes into the children's music and see children enjoying it.
What they get out of it, what families get out
of it. Think it's such an important film. So well done.
Speaker 6 (34:24):
Thank you. It was really an honor to get to
hang out with you guys incorporate the Wiggles into this movie.
So relly, thank you.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Come back to Australia, I will. Did you see black cockatoos?
Speaker 6 (34:35):
Oh yeah, Oh my god, they're so punk rock?
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Oh, come back and we can well, I mean, I'm.
Speaker 6 (34:39):
Happy to see them again. As I said, I didn't
get to see the powerful owlso no, you've.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Got your own ol in cetral parts. That's okay, and
we'll all be looking out.
Speaker 5 (34:49):
For that one.
Speaker 6 (34:51):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
Did you see a tawny frog?
Speaker 5 (34:53):
Now?
Speaker 6 (34:54):
I did, actually because I went, yeah, beautiful, only because
someone like was there and pointed it out right, like
I never would have seen it because it.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
Was so yeah, they really they bleed.
Speaker 6 (35:04):
Yeah, I never would have seen it.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
That was voted recently is the most popular bird.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Really loves them And it's funny about the being chicken
because from New Zealand came over and by Rosalind and
she was captivating the incredible. Of course we see them
all the time, we no, I know.
Speaker 6 (35:27):
That's what makes me laugh about it. They're like magnificent,
like incredible ibises that are like dinosaurs. They're actually so
amazing looking, and you guys are just like whatever, they're like,
get out of the way.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
We did a song called Midnight, which highlights the.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
You know, we were talking. I forgot what the being
Chicken's real name was.
Speaker 6 (35:55):
Yeah, it's like a it's like a beautiful name. I
forget the actual full name, but it's like ancient abs
or something like.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
It's a.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Thank you for any thanks for talking to us, and
we will talk anytime.
Speaker 5 (36:15):
Well, thank you for joining us today. Anto.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
It's a pleasure talking to somebody who is so passionate
about their work and what Penny's produced is a really
fantastic film for everyone to see that cares about, you know,
children's music and what goes behind it. But also just
talking to her about anything, it's always fun. She's such
a bride and a person.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Yeah, always trying to find joy and happiness and whatever
she does, which is like we're saying, what we aim
to do as well with the work we do. The
whole team really lovely, lovely group of people, and reminded
me there were elements of that, you know, with the
Wiggles documentary as well, getting a deeper understanding of what
goes into actually creating children's music which people people really
(36:58):
don't understand.
Speaker 5 (36:58):
I think it's true.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
And also what about the little diversion into bird life
which you would be the person I would go to
about birds usually, but now.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Yeah, because you're the mate, Locke is more of it.
We've discovered a bird listener. Yeah, yeah, you're a bird.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Listener, so you listen to the I can just know
what birds are. What birds are there?
Speaker 5 (37:20):
I hear them. Caraw no not you can make this ound.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
I should do that.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Carawong might be a Sydney type bird.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah, maybe it is maybe more Brisbane. That's quite probably
not very ready, you know what I loved. So we're
only talking about this the other day. But Casper baby Pants,
in a part of the documentary, said his rock band
were naturally dorky but had an innocent core. And we're
only talking about Greg's innocence in his vocals the other day.
(37:53):
I just thought that was a really nice rounded moment
of what makes really good children's music.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
Out any cynicism. There's words, the music. The way we perform,
all of us do is without being cynical or we
know more than you do. You know, we're smarter than
the children know. We're singing into an audience that think
differently to us, but we try and be at bear level.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
It's a really great documentary. So if you want to
see Pennies documentary, it's called Happy and You Know It
and it's out now. You can stream it on HBO
Max and we'll pop the link in the show notes.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
If you love this episode, please rate and review the
podcast so more parents can find out about it.
Speaker 5 (38:32):
Look, Anto, thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 4 (38:34):
I made you know what you guys have just since I've.
Speaker 5 (38:37):
Left it, Well, we've got up a few not.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
Wes.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Well, thanks for listening to wiggled Talk. It's a podcast
for parents. We'll see you soon.
Speaker 5 (38:51):
By
The Wiggles acknowledge the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia
and their connections to land, see and community. We pay
our respects to elders, past, present and emerging.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Welcome to Wiggle Talk, a podcast for parents. I am
Locke the Purple Wiggle.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I'm Simon the Red Wiggle. And we've got a very
special guest with us today.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
We have Anthony the Blue and the Gray Head Wiggle.
Hello Anthony, gooday, Lock good Simon, good day mate.
Speaker 5 (00:35):
It's great to have you back. Now.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
We've got you in today because we're talking about a
brand new documentary called Happy and You Know It, which
you are a part of. The Wiggles are a part
of it, but you were spoken to on that documentary
and this documentary is it's a deep dive in the
world of children's musicians, the people behind the songs that
fill our homes, our cars, our prams and sometimes even
our dreams.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
It follows performers like Laurie Berkner. Now I hadn't heard
a lot. I've always loved her.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
She's amazing, such an accomplished folk musician that she's singing
so beautifully, She writes great songs.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yeah, Casper, Baby Pants, Divinity Rocks, Johnny Only and yes,
the Wiggles are in there too, with Anthony sitting down
for an interview and the camera's coming right into Wiggles
HQ and backstage on tour. But before we get into that.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yes, that's right, this is our banter section, Anthony, Oh wow, yeah,
that's a new section. This is where we talk about
things have been happening in our lives. Oh good, what's
been happening in your life?
Speaker 4 (01:34):
I've been on tour with the Wiggles, I've heard of them,
seen you every day. Far from that, not much.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
Yeah, and what about you, Lockie.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Well, I've been on tour, but you know, this tour
is in the round and it's been been a lot
of fun. Now when the round means full three sixty
arena experience.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
And you know what I've loved musically as you know,
so laws and as she came back stage before ash up,
there we are with our amplifiers, guitars, singing songs at
the time voice and he got it. It was a great moment.
He got his two teddy bears and put him as
he watched that child just being honest.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
Yeah, that's why.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
I keep it down a bit.
Speaker 5 (02:20):
I've got cars to play with Headspace.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
It was, it was so fun. It's so creative to
use Teddy Bears as musk.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
You've just started wearing inn ears.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
I have yet for people listening in is how to
describe number.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Well, they're like INNI monitors, so they're like headphones, but
they you basically hear the whole show through the.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Head During the live show, you've got little earphones in.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
We've got a live band on stage the whole time,
so we've got you know, three guitars, bass player, drama
and a keyboard player, as well as eight singers. And
I've got my own little mix in my years and
because I am you know, I really am losing my
hearing as he is going and such, I love it.
I can hear everybody playing. And boy tell you what, Simon,
(03:09):
you've got a good voice. You guys really see.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
Well you keep saying you turn Simon down.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Not anymore, not anymore because in the in the wedges,
what happens at sound chick, Simon's just not warmed up yet.
So so you hit this beautiful level when the show
comes on and he gets the full voice going and
the voice, you know, you might have to turn it
down a little bit, because that beautiful opera voice comes out.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
It's always early. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Well, thank you again for joining us today, Anthony, because
we're going to be joined by someone very special. We're
joined by the woman behind Happy and you know It.
An award winning filmmaker, Penny Lane.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
Now.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Penny is known for diving into worlds many of us
barely notice and showing us why they actually matter.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
And in this film, she does something really special. She's
taken children's music, something that we love and that every
parent lives with daily, and approaches it with the curiosity
and warmth that you don't often see on screen.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Making music for families is this opportunity to create a
bonding experience.
Speaker 6 (04:15):
Doing something that's true to who I am and what
I want.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
To create for kids.
Speaker 6 (04:20):
It's kind of a huge job.
Speaker 7 (04:22):
We were all little kids, and this music is touching
that little person inside of you who still believes in
a little bit of magic, and we all needed.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
She spent time with musicians who've dedicated their entire careers
to performing for children, and she captures the creativity, the heart,
and the exhaustion all the things parents don't usually get
to see.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
So today we want to hear about what Penny discovered
along the way. So let's get into it. Penny, welcome
to Wiggle Talk.
Speaker 6 (04:51):
Yay, thank you for having me. I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Thank you for joining us. Now, for parents listening at
home who might not be across your work, how do
you kind of just describe the kinds of stories that
you're drawn to as a filmmaker.
Speaker 6 (05:03):
So I make documentaries and I'm always just looking for
a couple things. I'm looking to be surprised. I want
to be surprised. I want to be like I had
no idea. Usually that's something you think you know, but
you don't really know, and then you find out how
little you knew about it, and then I'm also looking
for I think delight is the word I'm looking for
(05:26):
delight as an artist. So obviously the world of music
for children hit both those buckets for me.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Children's music artists and children's music. Was that something that
you had wanted to do for a while, in a
story you wanted to tell for a while. All of
a sudden in your day today love something happens you think, oh,
maybe they could be a story there.
Speaker 6 (05:46):
Yeah, it's something happened actually, and something that happened. It's
a little embarrassing because I'm talking to the Wiggles right now,
but the something that happened was actually Baby Shark. For me,
it's important for your viewers to know I'm not a parent.
I'm like a middle aged woman without kids and a cat.
So like children's music just like was completely outside my world,
Like there wasn't any day to day contact with it
(06:07):
at all. I sort of discovered through just like poking
around and doing research on different music stories that Baby
Shark was like the most popular YouTube video of all time.
And I had never even heard of baby Shark at
that point. So like that was the beginning for me
of understanding like, oh, like there's a world of let's
call it pop music for not just children, but like toddlers,
(06:31):
and that that was a universe that I just had
never had never known one thing about, had never thought about,
had never considered. And once I kind of got in
that world, I was like, oh, this would be a
great documentary.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
It's really interesting.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
We think about it here at the Wiggles a lot
because we're so engrossed in our world. We have to
remind ourselves all the time that if you don't have children,
people actually have no understanding of what's going on in
our world at all. And so is that really good reminder?
Oh yeah, yeah, and a good leveler.
Speaker 6 (07:00):
Yeah, because the Wiggles are huge, as you know, but
like someone like me like had no idea. And I
realized once I began my research that like I had
been introduced to the Wiggles through the parody on thirty Rock,
Like I like didn't get that joke, and someone explained
it to me, and I was like, oh, yeah, I
know who the Wiggles are.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
The whole baby Shock story really surprised me on the
documentary that it was a like a camp song from
the eighties and nineties, Is that right?
Speaker 6 (07:26):
Yeah, so nobody knows Baby Shark emerged out of like
the creative comments of like untold numbers of like just
people educators and kids and campers and preschool teachers and
bands who were just like iterating on this song and
no one really knows who wrote it or like where
it kind of came from. But there was a sort
(07:48):
of chanting tradition version of it that was really more
aimed at teenagers at summer camp, and it was like
a bloody, gory affair. Like the whole idea was that
it was like a shark attack song. In each verse
you'd lose a part of your body. Yeah, So it
was like this very gory, bloody affair. And it wasn't
until quite recently that some artists, namely Johnny Only, who's
(08:11):
in my film, sort of adapted it to be more
appropriate for like a toddler audience. Took out all the
blood and gore and kind of put in this kind
of cute family story that now we all know as
like b Shark.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
You know, this must be interesting like those stories with
Johnny Only about baby Shark, which you obviously don't have
any understanding about before you start your research, those little
moments must be something that really surprised you within the storytelling.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
And you must love as.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Well because it puts a whole other level of a
whole element to what is children's music and where childsen
music comes.
Speaker 6 (08:44):
From totally because you know, so I knew a few
things going into it. I knew I wanted like a cast,
like an ensemble cast, and I knew I wanted like
a small number, but you know, kind of a manageable
number of like main characters. So we did five, and
I knew from the beginning one of those as I
started putting together the plan, I wanted one of those
artists to be like a regional artist, because you guys, know,
(09:07):
like a lot of what people experience as music for
children is like that band that plays at the park
on weekends that you take your kid to, you know,
or like in my neighborhood, it's like at Whole Foods.
There's like a guy at Whole Foods and he's there
already Saturday, and I walked past him and there's kids
sitting on the ground in front of him. So we
knew he wanted a regional artist, but I didn't know
I was going to find a regional artist who like
(09:27):
secretly was the force behind Baby Shark global phenomenon. That
was a nice surprise because I knew I wanted to
tell the Baby Shark story, but I wasn't sure how
I was going.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
To do it.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
You've got some incredible artists, so how do you find
your artists the people you want to talk to within
your documentaries. You came across Anthony Field and probably regretting
it ever since, but what approached you? How do you
get to that point?
Speaker 6 (09:54):
Well, the Wiggles was easy, right because, like you know, obviously,
you guys are such pioneers and such, like you know,
important figures in the world. So that was easy. Like
I wanted the Wiggles from the beginning, right because I
sort of wanted to have a couple of artists that
showed just how big the world was too, you know,
And I knew that you guys have been in the
game for so long that I'd also be able to
get some perspective on like maybe how the world has
(10:16):
changed in the last twenty years or so, you know.
So that was kind of a no brainer to get
like superstars, and Laurie Berkner really fits that category as
well in many ways, like she's kind of an elder
and elder oh god, she would kill me if she
heard you say that an elder exactly. So that was
(10:37):
that was kind of easy, Like to get some like
big names that was important to me. But I also
knew that I wanted to cast somebody who was just
getting started in the world of children's music because I knew,
you know that that you'd get like a different kind
of perspective from an artist who maybe has had some
success in a different field but is sort of trying
to figure out what works for children, like in real
(10:59):
time at this moment in their career. So that was
how we found Divinity Rocks because we were looking at
like some more up and coming, like newbies that I
thought we'd get like good perspective from. So that was
important to us too to have something like that. And
then we found Casper baby Pants because I thought there
might be a part for somebody who had had a
(11:20):
sort of big career in adult music and had made
the switch. And he again, for your viewers and listeners
who don't know, Casper baby Pants is the children's music
moniker for a guy named Chris Blue who had been
pretty famous in the nineties with a band called Presidents
of the United States of America, which had a couple
like huge hits, Peaches being one of them and Lump
(11:45):
and so finding him and also he's so articulate and
funny and smart, like I knew he'd be good in
the cast too, But it was a long process. We
probably spend the longest amount of time if you look
at the calendar, like just on casting, like really trying
to hone in that small cast because we wanted to
be able to go deep with each per You wanted
to have enough time with each person to get somewhere
interesting and not just have a bunch of talking heads
(12:06):
show up and say two sentences each or something.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
And you had to fly to Australia. I mean that
takes a little that time.
Speaker 6 (12:11):
Yeah, well, I think you know, a big sad day
for me to Australia. It was so fun.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
We had a great time. Yeah, it was fantastic. Oh,
there's there's a pussy cat. There's your cat. You talked
about timeline. What is the timeline for you when you
have an idea for a documentary and then you get
all your guests together and people going to talk to
How long is the process for you?
Speaker 6 (12:33):
I would say on average it's about two years. I
think this film was about two years from kind of
conception to release. Yeah, do you.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
Have other ideas like are you creating this one? Happening?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
You know it and at the same time you're thinking
about what's next? Do you have to go through that process?
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (12:48):
Yeah, I'm always working on more than one film at
a time. It would go crazy if I had to
work on just one movie at a time because they
take so long to make and sometimes there's like long
delays for things you can't control. And if I had
to sit around, like, you know, waiting for things to happen,
I go nuts. So yeah, I'm usually working on two
to three films at a time.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
Wow, are they top secret? Pity? Can you tell us
what you're working on now?
Speaker 6 (13:12):
No, they're not top secret. The next film is already done.
Actually we're just figuring out the release for it, and
it's about an owl who escaped from the Central Park Zoo. Animal.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Anthony was just telling us the story just before this,
about the power owl of the powerful alow.
Speaker 6 (13:31):
A powerful Yeah. I tried to see that when I
was in Sydney.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
I didn't get to you know what, the powerful al
Australia is very we name things without very much imagination.
So we've got a place where I played cricket, the
game and it's called the Sydney Cricket Ground. We've got
a sandy desert, it's called the Great Sandy Desert.
Speaker 6 (13:50):
So someone a great Sandy desert and you'rebout one that's
like my.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Favorite, that's brilliant. So someone with desert.
Speaker 6 (13:59):
Let me tell you it's Sandy is right.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
But there was also the Powerful owl. Obviously he's a
powerful owl and they said they called it the Powerful owl.
But in Sydney's East and suburbs at the moment, they've
had a bit of a problem because there are endangered
species of owl and the powerful owl's been taking domestic
cats and domestic little puppies and things. So there's a
(14:23):
bit of a cultural thing going on with a powerful owl.
And I know it's a bit of a diversion, but
I know how much you love BirdLife, and it was
really great to watch your perspective on Australia's bird life
sitting there and naming the birds, and I was going, well,
I didn't know what was called that, So that was fantastic.
(14:44):
On another and now you've done a documentary about it.
Speaker 6 (14:47):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I've been a birder for like
twenty five years, but this is my first documentary where
I finally got to like put all my birding knowledge
into effect. So this bird started out as a zoo
animal and was escaped from the zoo. Had been born
in the zoo, His parents and his grandparents had all
been born in the zoo. These were captive owls that
just sat in little, tiny boxes like So this owl
(15:09):
had been in like a bus stop sized cage for
thirteen years before I'd escaped, and when it first escaped,
he couldn't even really fly. He could certainly not hunt
for himself. He'd never hunted. So the story is really
about what happened when this happened, and how this owl
like evolved and became a wild owl in New York
City in Central Park. Yeah, it's a great story. I
(15:31):
love this owl. People will just fall in love with him.
He's so handsome.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Oh, I want to know what happened to him that
that sounds like a children's movie.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Well, I think I think he enjoyed listening to children's
music in Central Park.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
I think yes.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
And it was a joy too, because I got to
really spend you know, I live in New York City,
but I can't say I spend that much time in
Central Park. So I spent so much time in Central
Park to make that film, and it was such joy,
Like I really, you know, got so much out of that.
But that's one of the great things about my job,
and I get to like travel the world. I get
to go places where I wouldn't normally get to go.
I got to hang out at Wiggles HQ for like
two whole days, which is not something that just like
(16:08):
the general public gets to do. So I get these
kind of like backstage passes into worlds that I just
feel so lucky that I get to like be in.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
You know, Benny, what if your crew was for Austria
and we were singing some Austrian folks songs together. I
loved that.
Speaker 6 (16:25):
So that was a great, great life experience for me.
We stayed up very late saying it's he's Swedish by
the way, so.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Well that very similar to Austrian.
Speaker 5 (16:39):
We met Gabriel backstage.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
He came to one of the shows and he just
burst out into the Swedish song.
Speaker 6 (16:46):
He loved singing, I mean, and that was one of
the things, like, you know, getting back to this movie
that we made altogether, but like just seeing like how
much I strive and Gabriel, my business partner and producing partner,
like we literally like formed a company, and the company
motto is that we choose to lol, like we are
trying to experience joy. We are trying to like you know,
(17:07):
look for it and like appreciate it and have fun
at work. And it was like so inspiring and fun,
Like I thought I was going to lose Gabriel to
you guys, Like he was like, how do I abandoned
ship on this whole indidocumentary thing and like get the
Wiggles to hire me? Because he just like wants to
sing all day like for him, like that is the
(17:27):
most joyful thing he could imagine.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I think we have that very similar philosophy here at Wiggles.
It's all about fun. If we're not having fun, then
our audience isn't going to have fun. Did you find
that with the other other art that you spoke to.
Was there a common theme about that with regards to
children's music or do some take it incredibly? We all
take it seriously, but do some lose the fun because
of what they're trying to create?
Speaker 6 (17:49):
Not in my cast. I'm sure it's happened. You know,
you guys might have more insight into that than me,
but no. In my case, like I very much related
to the artists that we were profiling because they shared
that spirit of just like you know, and there's somehow
like you know, there's this kind of idea that it's
not cool, like it's not cool to have fun, or
it's not cool to be silly, and it's not cool
(18:10):
to like be goofy and have a laugh, or even
that that's not real good art, right, Like there's kind
of like a snobbish idea that like great art has
to be serious, which I've been shaving against my whole
career because I like to have fun at work. I
like to make movies that are fun and funny and entertaining,
and I also feel like my movies have depth and
seriousness to them. So I have like a little chip
(18:31):
on my shoulder about that. I realized as I was, like,
you know, Laurie Berkner in particular in the film speaks
really beautifully about how, especially when she first got started,
she let that attitude really affect her, like it really
made her feel a little embarrassed that she was doing
music for children and that it was silly and fun,
and she took her a while to like kind of
(18:53):
get over that and except that, like what she's doing
is important and even if it's funny and cute, it
could still be like really important for the world. Do
you guys relate.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
To that absolutely. You know, when we started, people used
to always say so, even interviews, would you like to
do real music?
Speaker 6 (19:10):
Yeah, real music, And we're doing real music.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
The great thing about children's music is because we know
our audience are probably more open than adults to music,
to all styles of music. So that's a great challenge
for a children's performer that you can do classical music,
you know, folk music, rock music, jazz, country, as long
as it relates to the child. So I always used
(19:33):
to say to we're doing real music, and we're doing
different genres and we're having a great time, and I'm
not missing out on anything.
Speaker 6 (19:40):
No, not at all. But yeah, you can see how like,
if you're very self conscious or if your like identity
is like wrapped up with being cool, I would think
maybe this isn't the world for you.
Speaker 7 (19:51):
It's true.
Speaker 6 (19:52):
The first thing I felt was I don't have to
be cool. I'm free of the culture of cool.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
I don't have to be judg And I looked at
that as a gift because from that spot, being creative
is easy.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
You say it in the in the documentary Anthony about
making sure that we speak to children in the language
they understand, which I think is also really important for
parents to understand that there's a reason why things have
done a certain way, and the reason why repetition is
important is actually developmental reasons why all this happens, and
all the artists in the film speak about that as well.
(20:28):
There's an understanding and a reason why we do something,
and it's not just off the cuff and just because
it's because we're talking in a particular language that a
child will understand. And that's I think that's really important
for parents to understand that about children's music, which comes
across really strongly in the film.
Speaker 6 (20:44):
Thank You, Yeah, And I think that, you know, there's
an element of the film there's like a little kind
of scene towards the beginning where we just did like
men on the street interviews with parents in a playground
and we ask them about like what you think about
children's music or whatever, and they kind of did the
expected script, which is like, oh, it's so annoying, you know,
we listen to it over and over again, like you know,
and I really like wanted the film to move from
(21:05):
that to something really profound by the end, like you know,
it's easy to sort of like laugh a little bit
and I'm sure many parents, as even Anthony says in
the film, like his daughter listened to one song seventy
seven times in a row. We know because we counted.
You know, like that can be a little hard on
mom and dad. But you know, it's almost like I
(21:26):
wanted the movie to like convince more parents that this
style of music, this kind of music that's not just
like because a lot of my friends might say, like, whatever,
I don't need the Wiggles, my kids like the Stooges
or whatever, And I think for me, it's like saying, like,
it's great that your kid loves this Stooges. What's great
about kids is they love music. They love all music,
as Anthony said, regardless of genre or whatever. But to
(21:49):
understand the value of music that is engineered for your
child that they understand is theirs and that it's not
the same thing is the music that mom and dad love,
but that it's music that's for them. That just seemed
to me like such an important message to get across,
that like it's more than just like the dumbed down
(22:10):
adult stuff. It's like actually, like you know, really valuable
that it's made for them. And the thing that I
realized throughout making the film. I mean, we on the team.
When you're making a music documentary, you're listening to this
music all day every day. It's in the edit, you're
you know, constantly playing these songs. And our movie has
like one hundred and twenty songs in it, and every
one of them's in Earworm, and we just seeing how
(22:35):
much joy it brought us, all adults, mostly without children
or our own, just like us singing Hot Potato, like us,
singing Baby Shark, like us adults. Like, I was like,
this music's not just good for kids, it's good for
adults too, because it reminds you to like stop taking
things so seriously and to smile and have fun and
(22:56):
like you know all that stuff too. So that was
also really important for me to try to get across
that it's like not just like something that like adults
have to suffer through for their children's sake, but that
like if you can like you know, enjoy yourself and
have fun too, you'll like it too. Like we should
all have a song that we play in the morning
and get up and dance to. We'd all be a
lot happier.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
Yeah, that's very true.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
That really does come across in the film Penny. That
message it's and it's a really important message for parents
and for children as well to accept their world and
the world they're in and then we're part of our
role as parents is to kind of harness that help
and that's what children's music does. It was even talking
before about being cool, as Caspa balue pads. I think
(23:38):
he said that Madonna spoke to him and said, if
you're having fun, you'll never win awards.
Speaker 6 (23:47):
That's a career advice from Madonna. And it was basically, yeah,
because what you do is funny and fun, it's just
going to like fly under the radar of like serious critics,
you know. And he said, like it was a huge
gift to be told that or in his career because
he never looked for that kind of recognition because he
he sort of understood that he wasn't going to be
(24:07):
getting it anytime soon, even if it's well crafted, even
if it's very well crafted, as you know.
Speaker 5 (24:13):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
I mean, you know, to write songs, whether they're adult
or children, is complex. And you see that in the
documentary as well, because a lot of artists are a
one person band and they're in the studio, they're pushing record,
they're going back to their instrument, they're doing vocals. There's
a lot of hard work involved in creating these songs
for children. And then on top of that, which you
(24:34):
show so beautifully, is the live aspect to it, doing
live shows where they're on their own, they're putting the
set up, they're doing it all the pa the audio.
You know, there's a lot involved, which I think parents
can take for granted and not quite understand.
Speaker 6 (24:49):
But the film yeah shows that absolutely. Yeah, I'm glad
that came across to you.
Speaker 5 (24:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (24:54):
And it's also the case that, like, you know, that
was also important to us. We were making a music documentary,
like that's the genre of documentary were making, so so
we wanted to focus on musicians who are like doing
this as musicians. So that's why the movie is not
about like I forgot the names of all the famous
Disney movies that are like really important, I don't know
it that's the one liked with Elsa anyway, So we
(25:15):
didn't do a story about like you know, Disney and
PBS and Sesame Street, like we were like, this is
about musicians, like musical artists who are doing that for a.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
Living happy you know it. That's another song which just
just come to us from who knows who was Yeah,
if you're happy, you know it. But we recently went
around Timo Leste, which is in the north of Australia
(25:44):
and it's a very poor country, and uh we lent
around there and I speak English. A lot of the
children were sang if you're happy and you know it.
But look what they had their own in their own language.
They had their own actions, didn't they that.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
They then taught us whole new verses so they could
recognize the tune even with us singing it in English.
And then they sang to us in their their language.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
And made their own actions.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
They added whistling, they added laugh.
Speaker 6 (26:14):
I would love sure that. That is so cool.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
That's it's such a great name because you know, whoever
wrote it back in the day, thank you for that.
Where you are, because it's.
Speaker 6 (26:25):
Like about not getting any credit for the craft of children.
We don't even know what.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
I would think. Wherever, they are very happy that you've
named the doc yeah you know it.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Yeah, was there anything that really surprised you in making
the film?
Speaker 5 (26:42):
With regards to the artists, the children's music.
Speaker 6 (26:44):
Yeah, I think like once you really start imagining, like
you know, it's easy to think, Okay, well that's probably
pretty easy, like you know, play a few simple tunes,
you know, and kids will enjoy it because kids like
anything or whatever. It was really like the thing that
really got me was just doing it myself, like, you know,
the idea of standing up in front of a group
of children, like one of the artists in the film
(27:06):
Divinity Rocks she talks about. I mean she toured with
Beyonce as her co musical director and bass player for
four years. She stood in auditoriums in front of like
fifty thousand people, right and felt totally confident in her
in her moment. And when she transitioned to starting to
do these really small shows but in front of a
bunch of like five year olds, she realized it was
(27:26):
incredibly intimidating. The kids are just staring at her. They're like,
they're not conditioned to pretend to like it. If they
don't like it, like they're very honest and they'll just
walk away. And that's what really surprised me was like
how little I thought I had ever thought before about
how intimidating it would be to like actually try to
hold the attention of a group of kids.
Speaker 7 (27:48):
They're looking at everything with this sort of hmm, impress me,
what are you going to do that's different?
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Ah, I get intimidated buy his low gids.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
And there's a gag in the where we tried to
do like expert interviews with like zero to five year
olds and there's a gag and where we kind of
try to bring them in and put them in the
interview chair, but they won't sit in the chair. Like
it was a complete failure, but it really spoke to
the themes of the film, where like, you know, you
just can't treat kids like little adults, like you have
(28:20):
to do it in a whole new way. We were
able to sing with them once we got them in
the chair. We could like start singing wheels in the
bus and they might kind of sing along. But you know,
we got very little interview material out of that day.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
To hear.
Speaker 6 (28:36):
But there is one part that like just melts my
heart every time where there's a scene, a kind of
section of the film where we're talking about lullabies and
one of the things that we asked our kid experts,
you know, our zero to five year olds in the
interview chair, was what do you love about music? This
one child's answered, I like to sit next to my mom,
And like I could just cry thinking about that, Like
(29:00):
that's the thing you should love about music, Like that
is the thing you should love about music, is that
it connects you to other people, especially people that you love. See,
I'm getting teary thinking about it. Like that's the most
profound answer I've ever heard, So, like what do you
love about music?
Speaker 4 (29:15):
But it continues to pinny, it continues to not just
children and moms and dads adults. That's what music is.
Grateful connecting, connects us.
Speaker 6 (29:25):
Yeah, and you were just talking about punishing across languages,
I mean generations languages. Like it's it's such a connected force.
And it's so easy as you get into you know,
as soon as you start getting into like what's cool
or like is it cool at your school to like
this artist or that artist? And like you know, whose
band T shirt do you wear? And how does that
sort you socially at college or something? All that comes
(29:49):
on top at some point. But what's amazing about watching
children react to music is that it's none of that's
there like it's so pure. They're not like what's cool
or what are my friends like? Or like what will
like make this girl want to date me or something?
You know, it's just like, you know, what does this
make me feel? And like am I feeling it with
(30:10):
the person? You know next to me? That's what art
is all about?
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Yeah, sure is divinity rocks. She kind of mentions it
when she talks about the bass is her kind of
cool thing, right, and she plays the bass and isn't
that cool? And the parents think it's cool and she
does a great kind of lick on the but the
children don't.
Speaker 6 (30:27):
Care very so low.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
That's right. You know, it's a great.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Thing for children to see musical instruments, all those kinds
of things, but the actual coolness of what we will
classes coolness, the children just not interested at all, which
I thought was a really you know, yeah, obviously what
she spoke to you about.
Speaker 6 (30:47):
They're not looking for like that kind of show offie virtuosity,
are they. I mean, you know, you want to be
good at what you're doing, but that's not they're not
like impressed by your like you.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
I think with the children, it's because children ecocentric thinker
is it has to relate to them, Right, They've got
nothing that would be Anything you do is going to go, well,
what's in it for the child? What are they going
to That's.
Speaker 6 (31:12):
A good way to put it. Yeah, it has to
relate to them. It has to relate to them first
and foremost. That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Yeah, if there's something you'd like the parents to take
away from this film and this is for the parents,
what would that be?
Speaker 6 (31:23):
Oh, just to like notice and appreciate how much music
connects you to your child. And again, it doesn't have
to be music that's made for children, as we all know,
it's any music at all, but just to really like
appreciate that and to pay attention to it and to
think about like what it is that you're like feeding
them kind of culturally. Like one of the critics in
(31:43):
our film says, it's toward the end of the film,
like all of this stuff is like raw material. It's
like we're shaping the culture of the future with like
the art that we choose to sort of engage with
our children on. So I feel like that's something that's
really beautiful and important to think about. But more emotionally,
it's just about like appreciating and enjoying that bonding experience
(32:05):
and seeing it for one of this and maybe even
like jumping in a little more themselves, because I think
a lot of parents can be feel embarrassed to like
sort of really get down, you know, like really like
just have a dance party with your kids or even
sing a lullaby. I have friends who told me that
it was a real struggle for them to like learn
to sing lullabies to their baby, even their little infant,
(32:27):
because they just didn't feel like they were a good
singer and they didn't know what to sing. And I thought,
you know, that would probably be me if I were
a parent, I'd probably be one of those parents who's, like,
what do you like, I don't know what to sing?
But to really just like appreciate that and to like
get into it and realize definitely not about whether you're
a good singer when it comes to like bonding with
your infant or your toddler, and no one cares if
(32:49):
you're a good dancer, and that like it's just about
Anthony says in the movie that he can't dance at all,
so he feels like he can. He's on the same
level as an infant.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Who's children are so forgiving. I just love that you're
making an effort to entertain them. So what you're saying
is exactly right, Penny. Just get in there and have
a sing. Your children will love it.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Well, it's such a wonderful film, Penny, and I think
you the message you wanted to get across certainly does
get across. And I love it how showcases the Wiggles
and Anthony, and we don't always get to see it,
but seeing Anthony in that environment where he could talk
so eloquently about why.
Speaker 5 (33:32):
That only ever happens, Yeah, it doesn't happen.
Speaker 6 (33:36):
Like philosophy about children's music all day.
Speaker 5 (33:40):
Daren No, Well we'll do to a point.
Speaker 6 (33:44):
Not you're mostly saying we need more cow bell in
the song or whateppen.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yeah, basically basically that's it. But also hearing you know what,
other artists experience the same things that we do, and
everyone's going through those same challenges to have the same
result to create music for children, and that really comes
across the film.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
A brilliant film, Penny. It really is a brilliant film,
and it gives a credit for a genre of music
that is sort of swept under the carpet a bit.
So it's great for people to see the work that
goes into the children's music and see children enjoying it.
What they get out of it, what families get out
of it. Think it's such an important film. So well done.
Speaker 6 (34:24):
Thank you. It was really an honor to get to
hang out with you guys incorporate the Wiggles into this movie.
So relly, thank you.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Come back to Australia, I will. Did you see black cockatoos?
Speaker 6 (34:35):
Oh yeah, Oh my god, they're so punk rock?
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Oh, come back and we can well, I mean, I'm.
Speaker 6 (34:39):
Happy to see them again. As I said, I didn't
get to see the powerful owlso no, you've.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Got your own ol in cetral parts. That's okay, and
we'll all be looking out.
Speaker 5 (34:49):
For that one.
Speaker 6 (34:51):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
Did you see a tawny frog?
Speaker 5 (34:53):
Now?
Speaker 6 (34:54):
I did, actually because I went, yeah, beautiful, only because
someone like was there and pointed it out right, like
I never would have seen it because it.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
Was so yeah, they really they bleed.
Speaker 6 (35:04):
Yeah, I never would have seen it.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
That was voted recently is the most popular bird.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Really loves them And it's funny about the being chicken
because from New Zealand came over and by Rosalind and
she was captivating the incredible. Of course we see them
all the time, we no, I know.
Speaker 6 (35:27):
That's what makes me laugh about it. They're like magnificent,
like incredible ibises that are like dinosaurs. They're actually so
amazing looking, and you guys are just like whatever, they're like,
get out of the way.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
We did a song called Midnight, which highlights the.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
You know, we were talking. I forgot what the being
Chicken's real name was.
Speaker 6 (35:55):
Yeah, it's like a it's like a beautiful name. I
forget the actual full name, but it's like ancient abs
or something like.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
It's a.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Thank you for any thanks for talking to us, and
we will talk anytime.
Speaker 5 (36:15):
Well, thank you for joining us today. Anto.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
It's a pleasure talking to somebody who is so passionate
about their work and what Penny's produced is a really
fantastic film for everyone to see that cares about, you know,
children's music and what goes behind it. But also just
talking to her about anything, it's always fun. She's such
a bride and a person.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Yeah, always trying to find joy and happiness and whatever
she does, which is like we're saying, what we aim
to do as well with the work we do. The
whole team really lovely, lovely group of people, and reminded
me there were elements of that, you know, with the
Wiggles documentary as well, getting a deeper understanding of what
goes into actually creating children's music which people people really
(36:58):
don't understand.
Speaker 5 (36:58):
I think it's true.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
And also what about the little diversion into bird life
which you would be the person I would go to
about birds usually, but now.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Yeah, because you're the mate, Locke is more of it.
We've discovered a bird listener. Yeah, yeah, you're a bird.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Listener, so you listen to the I can just know
what birds are. What birds are there?
Speaker 5 (37:20):
I hear them. Caraw no not you can make this ound.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
I should do that.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Carawong might be a Sydney type bird.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah, maybe it is maybe more Brisbane. That's quite probably
not very ready, you know what I loved. So we're
only talking about this the other day. But Casper baby Pants,
in a part of the documentary, said his rock band
were naturally dorky but had an innocent core. And we're
only talking about Greg's innocence in his vocals the other day.
(37:53):
I just thought that was a really nice rounded moment
of what makes really good children's music.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
Out any cynicism. There's words, the music. The way we perform,
all of us do is without being cynical or we
know more than you do. You know, we're smarter than
the children know. We're singing into an audience that think
differently to us, but we try and be at bear level.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
It's a really great documentary. So if you want to
see Pennies documentary, it's called Happy and You Know It
and it's out now. You can stream it on HBO
Max and we'll pop the link in the show notes.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
If you love this episode, please rate and review the
podcast so more parents can find out about it.
Speaker 5 (38:32):
Look, Anto, thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 4 (38:34):
I made you know what you guys have just since I've.
Speaker 5 (38:37):
Left it, Well, we've got up a few not.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
Wes.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Well, thanks for listening to wiggled Talk. It's a podcast
for parents. We'll see you soon.
Speaker 5 (38:51):
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