Keir Giles: Chatham House UK Russia expert on the shrouded details of the calls between Trump, Putin, and Zelenskyy - The Mike Hosking Breakfast

The details of President Donald Trump's phone conversations with his Ukrainian and Russian counterparts remain relatively shrouded. 

Trump's sought a full end to hostilities between the two sides but appears to have settled for a limited ceasefire and further discussion for now.  

All three parties say the calls have gone well, but there are discrepancies in their reporting.  

Chatham House UK Russia expert Keir Giles told Ryan Bridge the read-out on Trump's call with Vladimir Putin is like two completely separate conversations.  

He says neither of them is a particularly reliable source at the moment, but it's clear they're treating this in two different ways. 

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