September 23, 2024 • 10 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Trish Sherson from Sherson Willis PR and Josie Pagani from Child Fund joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Wellington mayor Tory Whanau's in hot water after she got caught flip-flopping on whether she sold her car to pay the bills. What's going on here? Is this a bad look?
The Government has put the hard word on public servants and urged them to stop working from home and go back to the office. Is this a good call?
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the huddle of us this evening. Trish Sherson of
Sheerson willis Prjo Spaghani of Child Fund, the CEO. Hello
you too. Hello, Hello, So Trish, you come home. You've
been out in the wide world and we're talking about
Tory's car? Is this like a shock to you? Shocked
to your sister?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Can I? Firstly, can I answer that question in reverse?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Please do tell me what that means. No, huh.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Let me just say this. There's two ways you can
come home to New Zealand. I've thought about this. One
is you go, oh gosh, you know, still looks a
bit you know, down in its cups and a bit
you know. Or the other way you can come home
as you go. I've spent four weeks watching international news
and man, other places have some massive problems that we
(00:47):
don't have. And actually, if a few two, you know,
I haven't got enough roads. It's kind of a first
world problem that we can still fix. So I'm going
with the glass half full.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
At least we're not we're not a threat of bombing.
We've just got Tory exploding on us. Now, Josey, what
do you think of the Tory situation? Do you want
to make a call on whether she did sell the
thing for her bills or what.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Oh my gosh, well, can I start by saying, well
done Wellington. You did a Gwyneth Pultrow. You consciously decoupled
from the rest of the country in the last selection.
You voted for a Green mayor and two Green MP's
and the rest of us didn't. Now you've got twenty
eight kilometers of cycle ways, no cafes, empty hotels, no jobs,
and we're talking about Tory Farno's car. So yeah, well done.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
I like how you did the thing where you were
like the rest of us didn't. But you are still
in Wellington, aren't you. Are you trying to cut.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I didn't vote for him, so don't come whining to
meet Kington. I didn't vote for it, But no. I
mean it's a mess, isn't it. And I think it's
just another example of the lack of political instincts that
she has. I mean, the fact that you think you
can go on do a radio interview and say one thing,
a TV and Z interview and say another thing. I mean,
even when she goes pub about things like she went
(02:01):
public about her drinking problem and good honor but then
she goes public again for her diagnosis of ADHD and autism,
and even that, you know you're sympathetic, but it starts
to feel like, my god, you're making all these excuses
for the fact that you're just not delivering on the
stuff that you said you were one unify the council
(02:22):
hasn't done that. Second, get willing to moving. It's in
a dead stop. So it's just it talks to her
lack of political instincts, and now that is a real problem. Yep.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I think you bang on there, Trisha. Is it at
the threshold? Like I think that it really needs a
Crown observer because it's such a mess. But what do
you think.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
It's funny, isn't it if an interview over what you
did with why you sold your car is a topping
point for a Crown observer? I think you are right,
and for the reason not just because of the issues
with the leadership, but overall the state that Wellington is
in and the urgency with which those serious issues need
(03:05):
to be addressed. And you know, if you can't pass
a long term plan, if you can't get the sale
of the airport away properly, which is really fundamental to
getting the council finances back into a sustainable form. Then
there is a serious issue there. And I have to say,
(03:29):
you know, as a watcher of media interviews and I've
heard you this afternoon and you know you've had a
great summation of it. This was one of the worst
performances I think that I have seen. And if you
were a rate payer watching this, you would come away
with a feeling that you just can't trust the person
(03:54):
in charge.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yeah, you know what I would say though, that I
think that rather because it's a big thing to remove
or you know, set in a control mechanism for an
elected official. And look, I want her gone just like
anybody in Wellington. But I think you've got to wait
till next year the local elections. It's not that long
away voting.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
About but that's how we do it. But Josie, you
know you don't have to remove it. Ray. You just
put a grown up in there to kind of like
sit down and make sure everything's going okay. They all
get to keep their jobs.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
That's right. But you can do that, but at a
great expense. And one of the things that we've the
problem we've had Wellington is that. I mean, they've just
spent so much money doing absolutely you know, overall, so
I think just you know, next year the elections, this
is your chance, Wellington to get it right. Don't muck
it up again.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah, I guess my point on that would be that's
still a whole year away when these but you know
that is a whole year away at Wellington. I think
the Observer is a good middle path, and you know,
I did like the comment around the Observer.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
At the very least they.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Could try and facilitate to get some stuff done.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Just so they don't fight so much. All Right, we'll
take a break, come back to you guys in the
tech quarter. Two right, we're back with the Hartle Trisius
and Joseph A. Ganny Josie, what do you think about
the public servants being sent back into the office, good
or bad?
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Well, I do feel like the pendulum swung a bit
too far the way towards flexibility. And you feel a
little bit like as an employer that you show a contract,
you go, look, it does say you've got to come
to work every day, And the employer will say, but
but what if I've got something else to do? You know,
this is a sense that it's just become normalized to
go I've got a hack out. Oh, I just don't
(05:36):
feel like it. But the other thing I would say
is as an employer, you know, I've got staff that
do a lot of flexibility. When you've got the right
people on the bus, I will do anything to rearrange
the seats to keep the right persons in that organization right.
And if it means that they need flexibility, you know,
I've got staff who have commute from from I myself
(05:57):
commute from Carpody up to Auckland every couple of weeks,
you know. So I think that if you've got the
right people, you will do anything to keep the right people.
And so I do think it's a balance. But I think,
you know, I think the government's right that it has
gone too far the other way, and there's a sense
that it's a it's an entitlement rather than a privilege
or an agreement. But I also feel a bit uncomfortable
(06:18):
with the government telling us. You know, I know, it's
public servants and we're paying for it out of our
taxpayers money, and they are in a sense the boss.
But I do feel about uncomfortable government telling people you
know they can or can't do flexibility and when they
should and shouldn't come to work. It's like, can you
just focus on maybe growing the economy and go with you?
Speaker 1 (06:35):
This is part of it. Like I mean, look, you'll
know a public servant who takes them key, I knew
a public servant love them dearly, renovating their house on
work time. Like that's it's a complete it's a complete rule.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
But my point, my point, Heather though, is it's not
the government's. It's not luxo and you know Prime Minister
or Minister of Finance's job to tell them. It's there
their direct employer who should.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Be saying he think it is, No, I think it
is because these guys, these guys in the public sector
have completely lost any kind of sense of what it
means to work hard, and that includes right up to
the top. And if they need to be told by
their employers the government, then they have to be told
by their employers.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
What do you think, Trisha, Well, ministers send out letters
of expectation all the time and I see this in
the same thing and in fact, in the postcap press
conference that was one of the comments either from the
PM or willis that managers aren't doing this. And the
opening line from the government around this was about ill
managed working from home, So this isn't what Josie's talking about.
(07:32):
When you manage this stuff well, because you want to
keep a person this.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
This is ninety five percent of the SFO, ninety four
percent of the Ministry for Environment, all on flexible words.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Well, that's right, and there's no Not only is the
sort of a lack of data around it, which means
no one's really worried about it, and so there's that
old saying if you can't measure it, you can't manage it.
I think also this is smart retail politics from the
government because he's long been this feeling that the public
sector they locked everyone else at home during COVID went
(08:02):
off to the wider appa to spend time at the
batch and they've never really come back, but everyone else has. Yes,
So I think it's good from that perspective, But it's
there are two separate issues here. One is which is
the real issue, it's around performance and productivity in the
public sector. The separate issue is about the slow death
of Wellington and the two are very separate issues and
(08:25):
need to be seen as such. But I think the
government is doing the right thing. The one thing that
did interest me though, not doing a humble brag about
skyving off for a few weeks, but talking to friends
in London where there's still a huge amount of flexibility,
Like you know, they are in the office really only
about three days a week. But I think in that
(08:46):
case a lot of it is about the commute and
making it easier for people who might have a two
hour commute.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
But I think it's the right thing.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Saying that I suppose I'm saying. I think it's good politics.
You're right, Trish, But what I'm saying is that I
wish the government was saying, actually, you know, MB, whatever
public department it is, what are you doing to actually
increase productivity in New Zealand, you know, grow our economy,
invest in R and D, invest in skills. I don't know,
but are you actually delivering outcomes? And I don't care
(09:16):
if you're sitting at home doing that, as long as
you're not renovating or sitting in the office. And I
think that's the letter of expectation I would. I mean,
I want to see far more of a of a
revolutionary reform of the public sector than just going Are
you at home in the office or are you at
the office in the office.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah, okay, guys, listen, really appreciate it. It's really good
shorts you and it's very nice to have you back. Trish,
thank you, and yeah, you can probably humble brag a
few more weeks.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
No, I think one week, one more.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
I think I've probably got one more day in my
office and then I'm done, because.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Have you been doing that art? Did you know? I
just came back from France.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Things, Trish, work from home, work from home, and then
you won't annoy.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
If everybody's mental health. Hey, guys, thank you. Tris Sharson
and Joseph they hudle this evening eight away from six.
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
On the huddle of us this evening. Trish Sherson of
Sheerson willis Prjo Spaghani of Child Fund, the CEO. Hello
you too. Hello, Hello, So Trish, you come home. You've
been out in the wide world and we're talking about
Tory's car? Is this like a shock to you? Shocked
to your sister?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Can I? Firstly, can I answer that question in reverse?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Please do tell me what that means. No, huh.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Let me just say this. There's two ways you can
come home to New Zealand. I've thought about this. One
is you go, oh gosh, you know, still looks a
bit you know, down in its cups and a bit
you know. Or the other way you can come home
as you go. I've spent four weeks watching international news
and man, other places have some massive problems that we
(00:47):
don't have. And actually, if a few two, you know,
I haven't got enough roads. It's kind of a first
world problem that we can still fix. So I'm going
with the glass half full.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
At least we're not we're not a threat of bombing.
We've just got Tory exploding on us. Now, Josey, what
do you think of the Tory situation? Do you want
to make a call on whether she did sell the
thing for her bills or what.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Oh my gosh, well, can I start by saying, well
done Wellington. You did a Gwyneth Pultrow. You consciously decoupled
from the rest of the country in the last selection.
You voted for a Green mayor and two Green MP's
and the rest of us didn't. Now you've got twenty
eight kilometers of cycle ways, no cafes, empty hotels, no jobs,
and we're talking about Tory Farno's car. So yeah, well done.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
I like how you did the thing where you were
like the rest of us didn't. But you are still
in Wellington, aren't you. Are you trying to cut.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I didn't vote for him, so don't come whining to
meet Kington. I didn't vote for it, But no. I
mean it's a mess, isn't it. And I think it's
just another example of the lack of political instincts that
she has. I mean, the fact that you think you
can go on do a radio interview and say one thing,
a TV and Z interview and say another thing. I mean,
even when she goes pub about things like she went
(02:01):
public about her drinking problem and good honor but then
she goes public again for her diagnosis of ADHD and autism,
and even that, you know you're sympathetic, but it starts
to feel like, my god, you're making all these excuses
for the fact that you're just not delivering on the
stuff that you said you were one unify the council
(02:22):
hasn't done that. Second, get willing to moving. It's in
a dead stop. So it's just it talks to her
lack of political instincts, and now that is a real problem. Yep.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I think you bang on there, Trisha. Is it at
the threshold? Like I think that it really needs a
Crown observer because it's such a mess. But what do
you think.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
It's funny, isn't it if an interview over what you
did with why you sold your car is a topping
point for a Crown observer? I think you are right,
and for the reason not just because of the issues
with the leadership, but overall the state that Wellington is
in and the urgency with which those serious issues need
(03:05):
to be addressed. And you know, if you can't pass
a long term plan, if you can't get the sale
of the airport away properly, which is really fundamental to
getting the council finances back into a sustainable form. Then
there is a serious issue there. And I have to say,
(03:29):
you know, as a watcher of media interviews and I've
heard you this afternoon and you know you've had a
great summation of it. This was one of the worst
performances I think that I have seen. And if you
were a rate payer watching this, you would come away
with a feeling that you just can't trust the person
(03:54):
in charge.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yeah, you know what I would say though, that I
think that rather because it's a big thing to remove
or you know, set in a control mechanism for an
elected official. And look, I want her gone just like
anybody in Wellington. But I think you've got to wait
till next year the local elections. It's not that long
away voting.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
About but that's how we do it. But Josie, you
know you don't have to remove it. Ray. You just
put a grown up in there to kind of like
sit down and make sure everything's going okay. They all
get to keep their jobs.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
That's right. But you can do that, but at a
great expense. And one of the things that we've the
problem we've had Wellington is that. I mean, they've just
spent so much money doing absolutely you know, overall, so
I think just you know, next year the elections, this
is your chance, Wellington to get it right. Don't muck
it up again.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah, I guess my point on that would be that's
still a whole year away when these but you know
that is a whole year away at Wellington. I think
the Observer is a good middle path, and you know,
I did like the comment around the Observer.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
At the very least they.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Could try and facilitate to get some stuff done.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Just so they don't fight so much. All Right, we'll
take a break, come back to you guys in the
tech quarter. Two right, we're back with the Hartle Trisius
and Joseph A. Ganny Josie, what do you think about
the public servants being sent back into the office, good
or bad?
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Well, I do feel like the pendulum swung a bit
too far the way towards flexibility. And you feel a
little bit like as an employer that you show a contract,
you go, look, it does say you've got to come
to work every day, And the employer will say, but
but what if I've got something else to do? You know,
this is a sense that it's just become normalized to
go I've got a hack out. Oh, I just don't
(05:36):
feel like it. But the other thing I would say
is as an employer, you know, I've got staff that
do a lot of flexibility. When you've got the right
people on the bus, I will do anything to rearrange
the seats to keep the right persons in that organization right.
And if it means that they need flexibility, you know,
I've got staff who have commute from from I myself
(05:57):
commute from Carpody up to Auckland every couple of weeks,
you know. So I think that if you've got the
right people, you will do anything to keep the right people.
And so I do think it's a balance. But I think,
you know, I think the government's right that it has
gone too far the other way, and there's a sense
that it's a it's an entitlement rather than a privilege
or an agreement. But I also feel a bit uncomfortable
(06:18):
with the government telling us. You know, I know, it's
public servants and we're paying for it out of our
taxpayers money, and they are in a sense the boss.
But I do feel about uncomfortable government telling people you
know they can or can't do flexibility and when they
should and shouldn't come to work. It's like, can you
just focus on maybe growing the economy and go with you?
Speaker 1 (06:35):
This is part of it. Like I mean, look, you'll
know a public servant who takes them key, I knew
a public servant love them dearly, renovating their house on
work time. Like that's it's a complete it's a complete rule.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
But my point, my point, Heather though, is it's not
the government's. It's not luxo and you know Prime Minister
or Minister of Finance's job to tell them. It's there
their direct employer who should.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Be saying he think it is, No, I think it
is because these guys, these guys in the public sector
have completely lost any kind of sense of what it
means to work hard, and that includes right up to
the top. And if they need to be told by
their employers the government, then they have to be told
by their employers.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
What do you think, Trisha, Well, ministers send out letters
of expectation all the time and I see this in
the same thing and in fact, in the postcap press
conference that was one of the comments either from the
PM or willis that managers aren't doing this. And the
opening line from the government around this was about ill
managed working from home, So this isn't what Josie's talking about.
(07:32):
When you manage this stuff well, because you want to
keep a person this.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
This is ninety five percent of the SFO, ninety four
percent of the Ministry for Environment, all on flexible words.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Well, that's right, and there's no Not only is the
sort of a lack of data around it, which means
no one's really worried about it, and so there's that
old saying if you can't measure it, you can't manage it.
I think also this is smart retail politics from the
government because he's long been this feeling that the public
sector they locked everyone else at home during COVID went
(08:02):
off to the wider appa to spend time at the
batch and they've never really come back, but everyone else has. Yes,
So I think it's good from that perspective, But it's
there are two separate issues here. One is which is
the real issue, it's around performance and productivity in the
public sector. The separate issue is about the slow death
of Wellington and the two are very separate issues and
(08:25):
need to be seen as such. But I think the
government is doing the right thing. The one thing that
did interest me though, not doing a humble brag about
skyving off for a few weeks, but talking to friends
in London where there's still a huge amount of flexibility,
Like you know, they are in the office really only
about three days a week. But I think in that
(08:46):
case a lot of it is about the commute and
making it easier for people who might have a two
hour commute.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
But I think it's the right thing.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Saying that I suppose I'm saying. I think it's good politics.
You're right, Trish, But what I'm saying is that I
wish the government was saying, actually, you know, MB, whatever
public department it is, what are you doing to actually
increase productivity in New Zealand, you know, grow our economy,
invest in R and D, invest in skills. I don't know,
but are you actually delivering outcomes? And I don't care
(09:16):
if you're sitting at home doing that, as long as
you're not renovating or sitting in the office. And I
think that's the letter of expectation I would. I mean,
I want to see far more of a of a
revolutionary reform of the public sector than just going Are
you at home in the office or are you at
the office in the office.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah, okay, guys, listen, really appreciate it. It's really good
shorts you and it's very nice to have you back. Trish,
thank you, and yeah, you can probably humble brag a
few more weeks.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
No, I think one week, one more.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
I think I've probably got one more day in my
office and then I'm done, because.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Have you been doing that art? Did you know? I
just came back from France.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Things, Trish, work from home, work from home, and then
you won't annoy.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
If everybody's mental health. Hey, guys, thank you. Tris Sharson
and Joseph they hudle this evening eight away from six.
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com