Chris Hipkins: Labour Leader on IPCA report on McSkimming and Coster, Te Pati Māori, gun law changes
November 11, 2025 • 10 mins
The Labour Leader is “absolutely disgusted” by the handling of complaints against Jevon McSkimming by former Police Commissioner Andrew Coster.
The Police Complaints Authority has released a report finding some of our highest-ranking Police didn't deal properly with a woman's anonymous complaints against the former Deputy Police Commissioner.
Hipkins is deeply disappointed in Coster, and believes the Police have a right to feel very disappointed in him as well.
“Clearly he had standards that he needed to uphold as a Commissioner of Police, and he did not do that.”
He says the frontline police, who go to work every day with high levels of integrity to serve the public and keep them safe have been badly, badly let down by the leadership.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Morning's Podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
It's time for our fortnightly catch up with Labor and
Opposition leader Chris Spkins. Morning, Chris, good morning. Now you
are a former police minister. Did you receive any of
the emails that were sent from the person who had
been in the woman who had been in the relationship
with the former Deputy Police commissioner.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Like everyone, I was absolutely disgusted by the revelations that
were outlined in the IPCA report overnight. I have had
my team go back and check all of my emails
to make sure that nothing came to my attention, either
as Minister of Police or as Prime Minister. They've confirmed
that I never received anything about or any of those
(00:56):
emails or any of the allegations. I'm absolutely appalled at
the way the police have handled the matter.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
When did you become aware of.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
It as an opposition member of Parliament? Sometime after the fact,
It would have been sometime either earlier this year or
last year. Certainly never during the time that we were
in government.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
When you became aware of it as an opposition MP
or leader of the Labor Party in opposition. What did
you what did you do?
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Well?
Speaker 3 (01:29):
It was it was public at that point, so I
did not receive any indication, privately or otherwise that there
were any of these kind of concerns. So only when
it became public was I aware of them.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Were any emails or of any of the emails sent
to you via any other email account?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
No, absolutely not, And I've had my team go back
and check to make sure that I never received any
of the information about these allegations.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
What does it say about Andrew Costa.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I'm deeply disappointed and Andrew cost I think the police
have a right to feel very disappointed in him as well.
Clearly he had standards that he needed to uphold his
Commissioner of Police and he did not do that.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
What do you think should happen with him in terms
of his role with the Social Investment Agency.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
That's a difficult one because that's ultimately an active employment
matter and the Public Service Commissioner needs to manage that,
and it would be an appropriate of me to comment
on that. But it is clear that there were serious
failings in the way he discharged his duties as Commissioner
of Police.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Well, let me put it this way, do you think
when you have got the current police commissioner saying that
and Andrew Costa showed a lack of leadership and integrity,
does that make him fit for any leadership role in
the public sector.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
I think it will be very difficult for him to
develop a trusting relationship with any government minister of any
political persuasion following the revelations that we've seen in the
last twenty four hours.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
So you think he's toasted.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Again, that's an employment matter for the public service commissioner.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
What does it say in relation because this is something
we've been talking about this morning, you know, in relation
to all the reassurances that the police culture and the
attitude towards women has changed since you know, Louise Nicholas
her experiences came to like years ago. What does it
say about those reassurances that the culture has changed.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I am absolutely disgusted by what I have seen in
the last twenty four hours. I think it shows that
the police have not made the progress that they should have.
It shows that the very very serious issues that were
identified by Louise Nicholas and others at that time have
not been properly addressed. And I think the public have
(04:03):
an absolute right to feel very disappointed by that.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
So when you were a police minister, did you assume
that those changes had been made, that the culture had changed,
and didn't look into it. Well, what visibility did you
have or even what interest did you have.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
We actually had reports from the police that indicated that
significantly more progress had been made than clearly had been made,
and that is very very concerning. It's clear that the
information being provided by the police to ministers and to
the public was not accurate and was not reflective of
their internal culture, and that is hugely, hugely concerning. I
(04:44):
want to be clear here, John, that frontline police, who
I've had a lot of interactions with in different roles,
go to work every day with high levels of integrity
to serve the public and to keep them safe, and
they have been badly, badly let down by the police leadership.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
What do you think Richard Chambers needs to do.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I think the announcements yesterday and I was briefed yesterday
morning by Judith Collins on the government's intention to appoint
an Inspector General for the police. I think that is
a very very good first step because it will mean
that there will be an independent set of eyes, and
he is overlooking police internal matters on a more systemic
(05:27):
and more regular basis than the IPCA have been. And
I think that's a very very good first step. I
think there's clearly been a lot of personnel change within
the senior leadership of police since Richard Chambers was appointed
as the Commissioner. I think that is also good because
it is clear that needed to happen, and they are
going to need to continue to rebuild the public trust
(05:48):
in the police leadership. And again, I want to stress
it the police leadership here, because you know, the frontline
police don't deserve to be tired with this many many
You know, the frontline police overwhelmingly have huge levels of
integrity in the public should be able to trust them.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, but when you had five members of the LEADLeadership
of the police, the top brass of the police, including
the Commissioner, dismissing a complainant as some crazy woman setting
out trying to get revenge, what hope does that give
any other woman laying a complaint with the police that
she will be treated with respect as she would expect.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
I want to acknowledge the funline police who actually were
saying that this isn't okay, and we're calling out the
police leadership on us, and we're being shut down by
the police leadership for pushing for the right thing to
happen here. I think it is vitally important that the
police leadership establish a culture where there is internal challenge
(06:51):
about these matters. The police deal with a range of
very difficult circumstances every day, including the fact that they
will deal with people making allegations against public figures that
have no foundation in fact. But in this case, it
is very clear there was more than enough red flags
in this much much earlier on for the police to
(07:14):
take a very different course of action, and they didn't
do that.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
What did you mean when you said yesterday that was
to the effect that you won't be too disappointed if
to Party Mali doesn't make it back into parliament after
next year's election.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Are we going to be competing very vigorously in all
seven of those Marori seats and I like the Labor
Party to win those seats. I think that we would
be able to deliver. You know that the stronger the
Labor share of the voter and the more seats that
we win, as the Labor Party, then the stronger and
more stable the government will be able to form will be.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yeah, which has been great talk. But to think back
to the by elections just a couple of months ago
and you failed big time. There A lot's.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Changed in that period of time, John, You know, to
party Maori have fallen apart since that time, and it
was a very low turnout by election and we were
standing an incumbent member of Parliament against someone who is
new and there a variety of factors that counted against
us in that by election. But we're going to be
out there to win those seven seats back.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Right, So you've said they're falling apart, when you're just
going to come out and say that they're off the
table in terms of coalition talks next year. Why why
are you holding on the section? What's that?
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Because because I'm because I'm not going to I'm not
going to provide a blow by a blow account of
our Labour's working position on every political party in Parliament
every time something around them happens. I'll see that before
the election. Yeah, hold parties and where it would be
a no go. But but John, you've just.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Told me the fall christ You've just told me.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Yeah, yeah, you've just said after the election.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
But you've just told me the fallen apart. Why why
would you still hold on to a hope, I hope
of working with them.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Well, the next of Party fell apart before the last
election as well. They managed to get their act together
enough to win the election. Voters ultimately make a lot
of those determinations.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
What do you make of the gun law changes in
the fact that there is not going to be greater
access to military styles semi automatic firearms? Good result.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
I'm really pleased that the government have back down on that.
I think New Zealanders made it very very clear to
us when we're in government that they wanted to see
the back of military styles and the automatics. I think
we've spent two years trying to figure out whether they
can get the public support behind bringing them back, and
it's the public I think have made it very clear
they don't want them back, and I think it's good
that the government have now taken that off the table.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
All right, answer this question. What difference will it make
though in terms of those types of weapons getting into
the wrong hands, Because that's happening already.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
We've still got an issue with weapons that were already
in circulation, and then of course there's issues around potentially
illegal importation. Police will need to continue to work really hard.
I think the establishment of the Firearms Register will help
in that regard though, police will be able to because
the Firearms Register will help police to identify the people
(09:57):
who are distributing firearms illegally, and that'll help them to
really crack down on the distribution of illegal firearms as well.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
All right, nice to talk. Do we talk again at
a fortnight, Ky, John? And by then you might you
might have written to party mariof completely. Oh quiet is
the A or no?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
For more from Category Mornings with John McDonald, listen live
to news Talks a'd be christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Canterbury Morning's Podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
It's time for our fortnightly catch up with Labor and
Opposition leader Chris Spkins. Morning, Chris, good morning. Now you
are a former police minister. Did you receive any of
the emails that were sent from the person who had
been in the woman who had been in the relationship
with the former Deputy Police commissioner.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Like everyone, I was absolutely disgusted by the revelations that
were outlined in the IPCA report overnight. I have had
my team go back and check all of my emails
to make sure that nothing came to my attention, either
as Minister of Police or as Prime Minister. They've confirmed
that I never received anything about or any of those
(00:56):
emails or any of the allegations. I'm absolutely appalled at
the way the police have handled the matter.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
When did you become aware of.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
It as an opposition member of Parliament? Sometime after the fact,
It would have been sometime either earlier this year or
last year. Certainly never during the time that we were
in government.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
When you became aware of it as an opposition MP
or leader of the Labor Party in opposition. What did
you what did you do?
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Well?
Speaker 3 (01:29):
It was it was public at that point, so I
did not receive any indication, privately or otherwise that there
were any of these kind of concerns. So only when
it became public was I aware of them.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Were any emails or of any of the emails sent
to you via any other email account?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
No, absolutely not, And I've had my team go back
and check to make sure that I never received any
of the information about these allegations.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
What does it say about Andrew Costa.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I'm deeply disappointed and Andrew cost I think the police
have a right to feel very disappointed in him as well.
Clearly he had standards that he needed to uphold his
Commissioner of Police and he did not do that.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
What do you think should happen with him in terms
of his role with the Social Investment Agency.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
That's a difficult one because that's ultimately an active employment
matter and the Public Service Commissioner needs to manage that,
and it would be an appropriate of me to comment
on that. But it is clear that there were serious
failings in the way he discharged his duties as Commissioner
of Police.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Well, let me put it this way, do you think
when you have got the current police commissioner saying that
and Andrew Costa showed a lack of leadership and integrity,
does that make him fit for any leadership role in
the public sector.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
I think it will be very difficult for him to
develop a trusting relationship with any government minister of any
political persuasion following the revelations that we've seen in the
last twenty four hours.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
So you think he's toasted.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Again, that's an employment matter for the public service commissioner.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
What does it say in relation because this is something
we've been talking about this morning, you know, in relation
to all the reassurances that the police culture and the
attitude towards women has changed since you know, Louise Nicholas
her experiences came to like years ago. What does it
say about those reassurances that the culture has changed.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I am absolutely disgusted by what I have seen in
the last twenty four hours. I think it shows that
the police have not made the progress that they should have.
It shows that the very very serious issues that were
identified by Louise Nicholas and others at that time have
not been properly addressed. And I think the public have
(04:03):
an absolute right to feel very disappointed by that.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
So when you were a police minister, did you assume
that those changes had been made, that the culture had changed,
and didn't look into it. Well, what visibility did you
have or even what interest did you have.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
We actually had reports from the police that indicated that
significantly more progress had been made than clearly had been made,
and that is very very concerning. It's clear that the
information being provided by the police to ministers and to
the public was not accurate and was not reflective of
their internal culture, and that is hugely, hugely concerning. I
(04:44):
want to be clear here, John, that frontline police, who
I've had a lot of interactions with in different roles,
go to work every day with high levels of integrity
to serve the public and to keep them safe, and
they have been badly, badly let down by the police leadership.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
What do you think Richard Chambers needs to do.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I think the announcements yesterday and I was briefed yesterday
morning by Judith Collins on the government's intention to appoint
an Inspector General for the police. I think that is
a very very good first step because it will mean
that there will be an independent set of eyes, and
he is overlooking police internal matters on a more systemic
(05:27):
and more regular basis than the IPCA have been. And
I think that's a very very good first step. I
think there's clearly been a lot of personnel change within
the senior leadership of police since Richard Chambers was appointed
as the Commissioner. I think that is also good because
it is clear that needed to happen, and they are
going to need to continue to rebuild the public trust
(05:48):
in the police leadership. And again, I want to stress
it the police leadership here, because you know, the frontline
police don't deserve to be tired with this many many
You know, the frontline police overwhelmingly have huge levels of
integrity in the public should be able to trust them.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, but when you had five members of the LEADLeadership
of the police, the top brass of the police, including
the Commissioner, dismissing a complainant as some crazy woman setting
out trying to get revenge, what hope does that give
any other woman laying a complaint with the police that
she will be treated with respect as she would expect.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
I want to acknowledge the funline police who actually were
saying that this isn't okay, and we're calling out the
police leadership on us, and we're being shut down by
the police leadership for pushing for the right thing to
happen here. I think it is vitally important that the
police leadership establish a culture where there is internal challenge
(06:51):
about these matters. The police deal with a range of
very difficult circumstances every day, including the fact that they
will deal with people making allegations against public figures that
have no foundation in fact. But in this case, it
is very clear there was more than enough red flags
in this much much earlier on for the police to
(07:14):
take a very different course of action, and they didn't
do that.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
What did you mean when you said yesterday that was
to the effect that you won't be too disappointed if
to Party Mali doesn't make it back into parliament after
next year's election.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Are we going to be competing very vigorously in all
seven of those Marori seats and I like the Labor
Party to win those seats. I think that we would
be able to deliver. You know that the stronger the
Labor share of the voter and the more seats that
we win, as the Labor Party, then the stronger and
more stable the government will be able to form will be.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yeah, which has been great talk. But to think back
to the by elections just a couple of months ago
and you failed big time. There A lot's.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Changed in that period of time, John, You know, to
party Maori have fallen apart since that time, and it
was a very low turnout by election and we were
standing an incumbent member of Parliament against someone who is
new and there a variety of factors that counted against
us in that by election. But we're going to be
out there to win those seven seats back.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Right, So you've said they're falling apart, when you're just
going to come out and say that they're off the
table in terms of coalition talks next year. Why why
are you holding on the section? What's that?
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Because because I'm because I'm not going to I'm not
going to provide a blow by a blow account of
our Labour's working position on every political party in Parliament
every time something around them happens. I'll see that before
the election. Yeah, hold parties and where it would be
a no go. But but John, you've just.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Told me the fall christ You've just told me.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Yeah, yeah, you've just said after the election.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
But you've just told me the fallen apart. Why why
would you still hold on to a hope, I hope
of working with them.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Well, the next of Party fell apart before the last
election as well. They managed to get their act together
enough to win the election. Voters ultimately make a lot
of those determinations.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
What do you make of the gun law changes in
the fact that there is not going to be greater
access to military styles semi automatic firearms? Good result.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
I'm really pleased that the government have back down on that.
I think New Zealanders made it very very clear to
us when we're in government that they wanted to see
the back of military styles and the automatics. I think
we've spent two years trying to figure out whether they
can get the public support behind bringing them back, and
it's the public I think have made it very clear
they don't want them back, and I think it's good
that the government have now taken that off the table.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
All right, answer this question. What difference will it make
though in terms of those types of weapons getting into
the wrong hands, Because that's happening already.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
We've still got an issue with weapons that were already
in circulation, and then of course there's issues around potentially
illegal importation. Police will need to continue to work really hard.
I think the establishment of the Firearms Register will help
in that regard though, police will be able to because
the Firearms Register will help police to identify the people
(09:57):
who are distributing firearms illegally, and that'll help them to
really crack down on the distribution of illegal firearms as well.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
All right, nice to talk. Do we talk again at
a fortnight, Ky, John? And by then you might you
might have written to party mariof completely. Oh quiet is
the A or no?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
For more from Category Mornings with John McDonald, listen live
to news Talks a'd be christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Paper Ghosts: The Texas Teen Murders
Paper Ghosts: The Texas Teen Murders takes you back to 1983, when two teenagers were found murdered, execution-style, on a quiet Texas hill. What followed was decades of rumors, false leads, and a case that law enforcement could never seem to close. Now, veteran investigative journalist M. William Phelps reopens the file — uncovering new witnesses, hidden evidence, and a shocking web of deaths that may all be connected. Over nine gripping episodes, Paper Ghosts: The Texas Teen Murders unravels a story 42 years in the making… and asks the question: who’s really been hiding the truth?
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com