June 3, 2024 • 35 mins
In this episode, Kelly and Tiffany dive into the differences between natural (unmedicated) and physiological birth approaches, exploring the philosophies behind each. They discuss personal experiences, including the empowering but challenging aspects of unmedicated births in various settings, and emphasize the importance of providing supportive environments for physiological birth.
00:00 Introduction
04:09 Listener Review
05:10 Magnesium Supplement by We Heart Nutrition
09:51 Personal Birth Experiences
12:00 Philosophies of Birth: Natural vs Physiological
17:48 Supporting Physiological Birth
Links to all the extra good stuff:
Birth Vision Worksheet: HERE
Down to Birth Podcast: HERE
We Heart Nutrition Magnesium - code Beautifulone for 20% off: HERE
Childbirth Education Wait List: HERE
Join our email community: HERE
Submit your answer-on-the-show questions: HERE
Be sure to subscribe to the podcast to catch every episode. Follow us on Instagram for extra education and antics between episodes at: @beautifulonemidwifery
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to At Home with Kellyand Tiffany, where naturally
minded women gather together aswe pursue simplicity and
confidence in healthalternatives, so we can show up
better in our busy lives andfeel more at home in our bodies.
Join your favorite home birthmidwife duo for conversation,
candor, and community.
You are at home with Kelly andTiffany and I'm Kelly and I'm
(00:23):
Tiffany, I'm taking over theintro and I potentially you're
at home potentially.
You're in the car wherever youare, but you are with Kelly and
Tiffany in my home.
We are recording in your homeare told Jenner.
Out playing.
There they are quiet.
It's wonderful.
I don't even care if they'regiving into something that they
(00:44):
shouldn't.
They are quiet.
And, you know, it really is.
I know we've said this before.
It's such a little gift to methat like our kids actually
enjoy each other.
This would be really hard if.
And it would be an absolutenightmare.
It would be terrible.
I mean, there's people in ourlives that my kids are like, do
we have to.
Like, I mean kind.
(01:06):
Sometimes.
Gotta defend yourself.
It was all the time.
It would be quite a problem,but.
But now also our puppies areplaying together.
The backyard, little brother andsister and mommy.
It's quite a little quite alittle.
Trifecta.
It's adorable.
They had to work through someissues, but that's okay.
Yeah.
I mean, like, Puppy from the oldpack wants to come play with The
(01:31):
mother son pack that has stayedhere in this home.
But Kelly's puppy was a bit ofthe alpha when she lived here
with all of us.
So everyone forgets who's inwhat place.
And it just takes some, a lot.
It takes some growling andwrestling and chasing each other
(01:53):
and some pain on things.
It reminds me of birth.
Some Groundlings and peeing.
That's accurate.
Is that accurate?
But today we are talking aboutbirth.
We are talking about the idea ofa natural birth, an unmedicated
birth, right.
Versus what we talk about whenwe are speaking of physiological
(02:16):
birth.
So we're not like pitting thesethings against each other.
And it's not like birth is likesome hierarchical.
Cole experience where you'relike this one is.
In and of.
Itself better than the.
Other, anything like that?
It's mostly just to share a bitof birth philosophy as you are
sort of.
Assessing your options, lookingforward to birth planning for
(02:37):
birth or somebody who issupporting.
Other women as they are givingbirth, just some ideas to kind
of consider.
As you think about birth andwhat your own personal
philosophy of birth is.
But before we jump into any ofthat we wanted to read yet
another review because you allhave been so incredibly kind to
(02:59):
share.
I have only five star reviews.
And that is really what we'relooking for.
Just just the good ones, but wewanted to share one because it's
just it's encouraging to us aswe've mentioned, but hopefully
it's encouraging to you tolisten as well to be like, yes,
like you're in this togetherwith other women who are
listening alongside you.
There is a community piece ofthe reviewing.
(03:21):
It's like, oh, we all get tomeet together in this place
where we read the reviews.
But we also just like to patourselves on the back a little
bit too, like to toot my ownhorn.
See, this is good.
Anyone who's listening right nowwho was thinking.
I don't know what I'm, why I'mlistening here.
(03:41):
You are in the minority.
Okay.
Okay.
How about that?
How about that?
Okay.
So this review is calledwonderful podcast for all the
things.
Oh, all of them.
And it is left by our friendShan, Hardy.
Oh, Shan.
We've never called her Shandbefore, but I'm going to now,
(04:02):
Cheyenne.
Cheyenne.
That's very sweet of her.
She left a five star review thatgoes like this.
Love Kelly and Tiffany and theirhearts for sharing such valuable
information and education.
As a doula, I feel like I'velearned more from them in their
podcast of wisdom andinformation.
Their Instagram is.
Also a treasure trove for allthings.
(04:22):
Women's health.
Anyone who's interested inprenatal, postpartum, and even
into menopause.
This is the best podcast outthere.
Thank you ladies.
Oh, That is really encouraging.
Think Shannon.
If you are listening Shannon, asyou say that you do.
You can reach out and let usknow that we read your review
(04:43):
and we will send you a drink tosay, thank you.
Oh my gosh.
Yes.
And if you are in San Diego, ifyou are a local and you need a
excellent birth doula.
This lady makes the top of ourlist.
Every single.
Time we give referrals.
I'm pretty sure you can findher@shannonhardydoula.com.
(05:03):
Hopefully that's correct.
Or just Google Shannon, Hardydoula, San Diego yet.
She's wonderful.
So good.
And another exciting little turnof events that has happened
since we have last met andrecorded and chatted, is that a
company that we have sharedabout before added a new
supplement to their lineup.
And I am so happy they did so,but we got to be a part of the
(05:28):
encouragement and the creationof this.
So the lovely family, Jacob andKristen, over at we heart
nutrition.
Created a magnesium supplementto push out after their
multivitamins, their prenatals,their postnatals, their Iron and
there.
Officially.
Yep.
And something else.
Vitamin B.
(05:49):
Yep.
Oh yeah, yeah.
For morning sickness, like notjust stuff in pregnancy.
But they have been behind thescenes since the beginning of
their company wanting to put outa magnesium because we cannot
stop talking about how greatmagnesium is, especially for
women.
In any stage of life, butcertainly as we're talking about
pregnancy a game changer and inmy opinion, a must have yes.
(06:13):
So it was actually really funbecause I mean, they just so
graciously asked our opinionabout their formulations and.
I mean, like, I don't considermyself a supplement expert by
any means, but we have spent aton of time.
Researching and understandingjust nutrition at its
foundation.
And so supplementation just endsup being a huge part of what we
(06:36):
help women achieve their healthgoals with.
I don't know.
And so.
Jacob was asked.
It was talking to me about,like, what do you think for the
capsule size and what do youthink about like, you.
You know, this amount, I can getthis into this, but will women
actually like, be able to takethat?
And I'm like, I have.
No idea.
I'm the wrong person to askbecause I will, I will swallow a
(06:58):
huge pill.
Yep.
And I forget that that's a hugebarrier to women.
So I was, I was like, I don'tknow, just like go in the middle
with that one, Jacob.
But he chose the smaller, thesmaller capsule size.
And it was, it was likethoughtful that he did that.
They did that so thoughtful.
So there's so much that goesinto these supplements.
That is not even just about theingredients, that the other
(07:19):
thing that absolutely blew mymind while we were collaborating
with them on this particularmagnesium supplement.
Is how crazy the market is formagnesium supplementation and
the additives and the differenttypes of magnesium that they're
putting inside of the supplementthat is not pure magnesium
(07:42):
Mycenae.
And so when that was brought tomy attention, With that, you
know, the research that theywere doing while they were
formulating this magnesium.
Museum.
It just, it blew my mind and itdidn't.
It shouldn't have, because weknow that the supplement
industry is like completelyrampant with.
Terrible ingredients and fillersand cutting corners, et cetera.
(08:04):
And so that's one of the reasonsthat we just put a hundred
percent of our confidence behindwe heart nutrition, because they
do not do that.
There.
In fact, this supplement has100% pure magnesium glycinate,
and it is one of the only oneson the market that you can get
100%.
Pure magnesium.
(08:24):
Yeah.
So if you were interested inmore information about why women
need more magnesium.
We have an episode that we'lllink in the description.
The show notes for you to kindof check out And we will also
link you can go to we heartnutrition.com/beautiful one
midwifery.
If you would like a discount onthis magnesium or any of their
(08:46):
other incredible offerings, youcan use the code.
Beautiful one.
For 20% off.
Woo.
That's a good chunk then.
Anyway, there's all right.
There's our apply, but we lovethem over there.
And it's been really fun towatch them kind of share this
supplement because when Ishared.
On our social media, that they.
You know, started.
(09:07):
Selling this People went andthey bought a lot of it.
You know, they're just excitedbecause of what.
What you were saying, like itis.
It is quality and it's, theycomes in pretty packaging.
Oh, and that matters.
It matters a lot to me.
I have mine like set up and I'mlike, I actually will take these
because you're out on thecounter looking so cute.
Yeah.
(09:27):
And I mean, their, their entirecompany is just absolutely like.
Overflowing with beautifulfamily values that support so
much more than just women'ssupplements.
It's.
It's a wonderful, yes.
Beautiful thing happening.
Okay.
So we are going to chat aboutbirth now.
I wanted to share a little bit,and then I was going to ask you
(09:49):
TIF to share a little bit aswell.
My experience going into my ownbirth was.
My own first birth, I took achildbirth education class, the,
my goal, and I don't even knowwhy it really was, but it was to
have an unmedicated birth.
I really wanted to give birthwithout an epidural, wanted to
feel all of the things and kindof get to the other side of that
(10:11):
mountain.
It felt really important to me.
And so I put everything or whatI thought was everything into
place to.
You know, go and do that.
And the outcome of thatexperience was.
An unmedicated birth, right.
I'm like, okay.
That's amazing.
It's a good, it was goodempowering experience to be able
to get that the end goal ofthat.
(10:32):
But while I, while it washappening, I was like, At one, I
feel like I'm fighting for thisand two.
Yes, I'm without medication, butI have, where is my support for
this?
Right.
Like, great.
I'm I'm experiencing this thing,but it felt lacking in so many
(10:52):
places.
I feel like I was taken out ofmy.
W, you know, labor land so manytimes by bright lights and
talking and questions andtelling me what to do and
getting me on.
My back and you know, cuttingthe cord super quickly and
rushing a lot of things.
And I was left realizing, and Ididn't know how to put it into
words or really processed thatuntil I started learning more
(11:13):
about birth as I got into birthwork, but I realized.
What I wanted was an unmedicatedbirth, but what I wanted was so
much more than that.
And I didn't really have a, aword to put on it.
And I know we've talked aboutthis before, but we both were
doulas.
Before we became a midwives andI know that your experience.
(11:34):
You know, you had your own birthexperience of course, but then
experience supporting otherwomen in hospital births with
their desire to have anunmedicated birth.
I'm just interested to hear ofyour experience the first time
you feel like you actually I sawpotentially what, like I was
hoping for or what a lot ofwomen were hoping for in not
just an unmedicated birth, butlike a truly supported.
(11:57):
Physiological birth.
Yeah.
And I think it's important thatas we explore these two concepts
that we touch on the fact thatit's not just an outcome.
It's a philosophy.
So.
The difference between lookingback and saying.
Yeah, I had an unmedicatedbirth.
(12:19):
That is one that's one piecethat's separate.
Having a physiological birth,there has to be philosophy
involved because the settingthat you're in, the providers
that are around you, the peoplethat you've invited to support
you in your space, they allcontribute their philosophy.
And if they do not have thephilosophy of a physiological
(12:42):
birth being the best way forthat to unfold.
It will be very, very difficultfor you to be able to experience
that.
And I know some women arelistening.
Listening right now.
And they're thinking.
What's the big deal.
I don't understand, like I had.
Okay.
So maybe I had an unmedicatedbirth.
That was wonderful for me.
(13:02):
I felt very.
Achieved and not accomplishment.
And I look absolutely.
And like Kelly said, we're notpitting one thing against the
other.
But the women who are listeningright now who have had an
unmedicated birth and it feltlacking still, and they're
trying.
To figure out, well, I didactually get the outcome I
wanted, but it didn't happen ina way that made me feel very
(13:22):
empowered.
It's because it was notphysiological and your heart is
longing for a physiologicalexperience.
And for the women who have hadan unmedicated birth and then
went on to have a physiologicalbirth, they know that
difference.
They know what that feels like.
They know what it is like forthat philosophy to be.
In motion to experience the.
(13:44):
The action of what aphysiologically supportive birth
can be.
And so if you're sitting hereand you're wondering, like, does
this matter?
Like, do we even care?
Just to know it's becausethere's just, there's.
It's a lack of perspective.
And that's where I found myselfas a doula because my bursts
were not physiological in thesoul.
Litas and I've shared that storyon other podcasts before.
(14:08):
I cannot say with confidence ofany recollection, and this will
ruffle feathers, but that Ihave.
I've experienced a hospitalbirth that was truly
physiological.
I can't even with wonderfulproviders.
Even with unmedicated smooth,uncomplicated births.
I cannot say that afterexperiencing physiological.
(14:30):
Birth.
In a different, more supportivesetting that, that I would say
that was the same thing as aphysiologic, a potentially
physiological birth in ahospital.
So the very first time that Isaw a truly physiological
process unfolding before me wasthe first home birth that I went
to.
And it blew my mind because.
(14:50):
The mom was doing, basicallyeverything that she would have
been doing in any setting.
It's just birth.
It takes over, you have to gowith it.
But everything around her wascompletely set up to support
that process.
And there were not.
Not unnecessary interventions,unnecessary words, unheard, full
(15:12):
suggestions, anybody pushingtheir agenda or their protocols
or their.
His desires on the process.
It was just allowing it tounfold and trusting that
process.
And it was intense.
I actually left that birththinking.
I don't know if that's better.
(15:32):
That was so intense that I'm notsure if that is a better
experience.
But then later on packing it,recognizing that although it's
intense and like birth is just,it should be intense.
It is absolutely.
It's insane.
Unpacking that leader.
I recognized that.
It was the experience that everysingle doula client that I had
(15:54):
worked with up until that point,they wanted to have that.
All their goals weresurrounding.
Somebody trusting and allowingand supporting their body.
To do the thing that it wasmeant to do.
And it's just.
Heartbreaking.
(16:14):
To see.
The disparity in those pieces.
Yeah, it almost feels likethere's a secret, right?
That's like not being told towomen or it's like, Just birth
just gets so covered up that wedon't really get to see, like,
it can be so much, it can be somuch more.
(16:36):
Right.
And so.
I've had very similarexperiences with doula clients,
especially who were, and I'm,this is not to change.
Anybody's Impression of theirown.
Birth.
When they say that was.
Incredible and the most amazing.
I'm like, yes, of course it was.
Yes.
I would never say anything tolike, shift to that for them,
but in my mind, as I'mprocessing things, I'm like,
(16:59):
Wow.
The trajectory of how thingsplayed out was impacted by what
other people were doing orsaying, or policies that were in
place or things that wererushed.
And yes, that's so great for thesetting that you were in.
That, that outcome, the way theythink things happened.
Wonderful.
But there is.
Like you're saying.
There, there is more there.
(17:20):
And so You know, avoiding theidea of avoiding medication,
that idea of being like, I wantthis UN or this unmedicated,
this natural birth.
That's like, it's a very good,very worthy goal.
Absolutely.
So if that's your goal, likeyes, absolutely.
You can work towards that.
But what we saw right.
When we were doulas and what wehear from women who come to us
(17:43):
for a clinical care.
What we see in our DMS onInstagram is that women are
fighting for that particularthing.
It's an uphill battle to simplyavoid an intervention, to avoid
medication within the medicalmodel.
Right.
Which at the end of the day, ifyou're thinking about that, like
my one goal is this I'm, I'm ina situation.
(18:05):
Situation in which everythingelse is kind of pitted.
At it against me in this, itreally comes down.
To this idea of what you weretalking about this general
philosophy.
Sufi.
Within a particular model withina particular space that you're
choosing within a particularprovider that is taking care of
you.
Like asking the question.
(18:25):
What is the underlying beliefthen about birth?
If this is the case, right?
If, if the case is.
It is hard to have anunmedicated birth in the
hospital that feels empowering,but it doesn't feel like a
fight.
Then what are we walking into?
Right.
Like, What's the philosophy ofbirth that we are knowingly
walking into.
(18:46):
If that's the case.
Yeah.
And I know like there's like whogets to decide what's
physiological?
Where does that word come from?
Who created the definition forthat?
I don't know.
In my mind.
It is what happens all byitself.
When nobody intervenes.
and 95 plus percent of the timethat cascade.
(19:09):
SCADE of normal birth event.
Happens really well on its ownand we can trust it.
Without other like high-riskfactors or other.
Complications that.
You know, coexisting withinpregnancy or birth dynamic.
We, we do have the opportunityto take our hands off and say,
we're expecting this to.
Well on its own, where areasthat we can intervene in order
(19:32):
to help the process along.
Only if it contributes to it,what.
It was already going to happenwell on its own.
And this excludes things likecomplications or.
Things coming up that you'relike, well, I trusted.
The physiological process.
Process and I was at nine and ahalf centimeters.
(19:54):
For 14.
Ours and what's that, you know,like, oh, we can get into that.
Like some other point.
But, but the huge, huge, vastmajority of women.
Do you have the opportunity toallow this to unfold well on its
own and it.
In some ways.
That oversimplifies things andmakes it seem like all you have.
(20:15):
To do is.
Just give birth at home with amidwife who doesn't mess with
you.
But usually that.
Choice.
Creates an opportunity for.
The woman and her partner takinga whole lot more responsibility.
Truly understanding and trustingwhat her body is meant to do.
(20:38):
Supporting that in a reallyradical way, or at least radical
in our current society right nowwith the standards that are
surrounding birth in the waythat we teach.
Young girls.
About, you know, Birth andmotherhood, and it means
reprogramming all of that.
It means working throughout yourwhole pregnancy to like
(21:00):
psychologically and emotionallyengage in what is about to
happen.
It means educating yourself.
And educating your partner aboutho how are you going to respond
when you come across some of thechallenges like physical pain,
like physical exhaustion, like.
Some kind of complication that,you know, can potentially come
(21:23):
up and finding a provider and acare setting that aligns with
some of those pieces.
So it's not going to mean thesame thing for every single.
Woman.
Or how it gets played out.
And I have seen.
Physiological birth getcompletely wrecked.
At home birth with midwives.
(21:44):
So there's no good.
There's no guarantees out thereabout how the outcome is going
to be.
We can only rely on thephilosophy of it.
Yeah.
And this, it just brought up.
The thing that's been happeningon Instagram recently over the
last couple of weeks has beenlike a few people have shared
their birth.
Videos and talked about liketheir, Our lived experience
right.
Of like, this is my birth andhere's what I.
(22:06):
Believe happened or here's whathow it went down in my head and
people have been.
Commenting about like, oh yeah,well, they put their hands in so
XYZ or that wasn't really ashoulder dystocia because it
didn't have to be resolved inthis particular way or whatever.
And women being like, Yeah, butthis is, this is my perception,
right?
(22:26):
My experience.
And I think that that is a veryhelpful place to come from of
like, we don't get to judge.
What is, what for you inparticular?
And we don't even get to judge,like, maybe you don't want a
physiological birth.
Fine.
Right?
Maybe you don't want anunmedicated birth.
I'm not really a hundred percentsure why you're listening to
this episode.
But helpful to look at all ofyour options and whatever it is
that's right for you is rightfor you.
(22:47):
But I think understanding.
That underlying belief.
Those are two very separatethings that we're actually
talking about there thatunderlying belief of unmedicated
birth.
Basically.
Being an uphill battle in thatplace.
Meaning birth should besomething that's controlled,
meaning.
I feel better as a clinician orpotentially even as, you know, a
(23:10):
birthing mom who comes And says,like, I want to be in this place
because it makes me feel betterbecause I.
Potentially.
I'm not fully trove.
Maybe I don't fully trust birth,or maybe I'm.
You know, whatever.
And so just to helpfulrecognition of like, there's.
Two separate places that you cango with this and this whole
other philosophy.
(23:31):
That's more.
It's just deeper than simplyavoiding something, right.
We're not just avoiding anintervention, really a deeper
understanding.
Ending of like what can happen?
In birth again, when it is left.
To its own devices.
And left to this idea of areally undisturbed hormonal
(23:52):
orchestra that happens.
So.
What is impacting?
What, how is, you know, how hasyour adrenaline messing with
this?
What is your cortisol doing?
What's your oxytocin, all ofthese pieces, how they all
interact with each other andwhat can we do to support that?
So that everything is You know,Playing their particular tune in
a way that is actually going toCome out of you know, a
(24:14):
beautiful song will come out ofthat versus.
Something where it sounds likemy fourth graders playing the
recorder or something.
Right.
Like trying so hard, but notquite.
Allowing the pieces to trulycome together.
It reminds me of a discussionthat we had a little bit ago for
the down to birth podcast, wewere guests on their podcast.
(24:35):
I don't know if this.
That episode will have been out.
By the time this airs, but if itwas, we'll link it in the show
notes, but we were justexploring with them this concept
of like traditional midwiferyand hands-off midwifery.
And what does that look like?
Like what did, what do you meanhands-off and this is a part of
it.
The philosophy.
Sufi of, I'm not going to use myhands to try to influence what I
(24:58):
think needs to happen next.
I'm going to notice what'salready happening well and
support that.
And then I'm going to use myhands.
If we have to like have hands.
Part of it, right.
Two.
To support it and to use myobservation skills and to use.
My again, philosophy about birthto incur.
(25:19):
I encourage you and to create amore peaceful environment.
When we encounter a woman who ishaving a very difficult time
with her labor, whether it'sher.
Process of a normal labor.
Or whether it's a very, youknow, physically trying.
Labor.
We are always looking for how tosupport.
Physiology inside of that.
(25:40):
So in the medical model, theywould be like, oh, well, you're
having a very hard time.
Let's give you pain medication.
Let's help to move things alongso that this hard time is.
In shorter duration.
The philosophy behindphysiological birth is like, oh,
you're exhausted.
You're scared you have a senseof privacy that you're not
(26:01):
getting.
You have unmet needs.
We need to figure out how tohelp you rest.
We need to kick everybody out ofthe room.
We need to feed you.
We need to talk to you about howyou're feeling.
Those are the interventions weuse in order to restore
physiology or to help supportphysiology.
(26:21):
And so it's, it's not apples toapples.
There is not a whole lot ofcrossover that happens in these
two.
Specific lanes just because it'sa whole different way of viewing
birth and supporting birth.
Yeah.
And so if we're coming from itof this place of really trusting
and intentional design,
Welcome to At Home with Kellyand Tiffany, where naturally
minded women gather together aswe pursue simplicity and
confidence in healthalternatives, so we can show up
better in our busy lives andfeel more at home in our bodies.
Join your favorite home birthmidwife duo for conversation,
candor, and community.
You are at home with Kelly andTiffany and I'm Kelly and I'm
(00:23):
Tiffany, I'm taking over theintro and I potentially you're
at home potentially.
You're in the car wherever youare, but you are with Kelly and
Tiffany in my home.
We are recording in your homeare told Jenner.
Out playing.
There they are quiet.
It's wonderful.
I don't even care if they'regiving into something that they
(00:44):
shouldn't.
They are quiet.
And, you know, it really is.
I know we've said this before.
It's such a little gift to methat like our kids actually
enjoy each other.
This would be really hard if.
And it would be an absolutenightmare.
It would be terrible.
I mean, there's people in ourlives that my kids are like, do
we have to.
Like, I mean kind.
(01:06):
Sometimes.
Gotta defend yourself.
It was all the time.
It would be quite a problem,but.
But now also our puppies areplaying together.
The backyard, little brother andsister and mommy.
It's quite a little quite alittle.
Trifecta.
It's adorable.
They had to work through someissues, but that's okay.
Yeah.
I mean, like, Puppy from the oldpack wants to come play with The
(01:31):
mother son pack that has stayedhere in this home.
But Kelly's puppy was a bit ofthe alpha when she lived here
with all of us.
So everyone forgets who's inwhat place.
And it just takes some, a lot.
It takes some growling andwrestling and chasing each other
(01:53):
and some pain on things.
It reminds me of birth.
Some Groundlings and peeing.
That's accurate.
Is that accurate?
But today we are talking aboutbirth.
We are talking about the idea ofa natural birth, an unmedicated
birth, right.
Versus what we talk about whenwe are speaking of physiological
(02:16):
birth.
So we're not like pitting thesethings against each other.
And it's not like birth is likesome hierarchical.
Cole experience where you'relike this one is.
In and of.
Itself better than the.
Other, anything like that?
It's mostly just to share a bitof birth philosophy as you are
sort of.
Assessing your options, lookingforward to birth planning for
(02:37):
birth or somebody who issupporting.
Other women as they are givingbirth, just some ideas to kind
of consider.
As you think about birth andwhat your own personal
philosophy of birth is.
But before we jump into any ofthat we wanted to read yet
another review because you allhave been so incredibly kind to
(02:59):
share.
I have only five star reviews.
And that is really what we'relooking for.
Just just the good ones, but wewanted to share one because it's
just it's encouraging to us aswe've mentioned, but hopefully
it's encouraging to you tolisten as well to be like, yes,
like you're in this togetherwith other women who are
listening alongside you.
There is a community piece ofthe reviewing.
(03:21):
It's like, oh, we all get tomeet together in this place
where we read the reviews.
But we also just like to patourselves on the back a little
bit too, like to toot my ownhorn.
See, this is good.
Anyone who's listening right nowwho was thinking.
I don't know what I'm, why I'mlistening here.
(03:41):
You are in the minority.
Okay.
Okay.
How about that?
How about that?
Okay.
So this review is calledwonderful podcast for all the
things.
Oh, all of them.
And it is left by our friendShan, Hardy.
Oh, Shan.
We've never called her Shandbefore, but I'm going to now,
(04:02):
Cheyenne.
Cheyenne.
That's very sweet of her.
She left a five star review thatgoes like this.
Love Kelly and Tiffany and theirhearts for sharing such valuable
information and education.
As a doula, I feel like I'velearned more from them in their
podcast of wisdom andinformation.
Their Instagram is.
Also a treasure trove for allthings.
(04:22):
Women's health.
Anyone who's interested inprenatal, postpartum, and even
into menopause.
This is the best podcast outthere.
Thank you ladies.
Oh, That is really encouraging.
Think Shannon.
If you are listening Shannon, asyou say that you do.
You can reach out and let usknow that we read your review
(04:43):
and we will send you a drink tosay, thank you.
Oh my gosh.
Yes.
And if you are in San Diego, ifyou are a local and you need a
excellent birth doula.
This lady makes the top of ourlist.
Every single.
Time we give referrals.
I'm pretty sure you can findher@shannonhardydoula.com.
(05:03):
Hopefully that's correct.
Or just Google Shannon, Hardydoula, San Diego yet.
She's wonderful.
So good.
And another exciting little turnof events that has happened
since we have last met andrecorded and chatted, is that a
company that we have sharedabout before added a new
supplement to their lineup.
And I am so happy they did so,but we got to be a part of the
(05:28):
encouragement and the creationof this.
So the lovely family, Jacob andKristen, over at we heart
nutrition.
Created a magnesium supplementto push out after their
multivitamins, their prenatals,their postnatals, their Iron and
there.
Officially.
Yep.
And something else.
Vitamin B.
(05:49):
Yep.
Oh yeah, yeah.
For morning sickness, like notjust stuff in pregnancy.
But they have been behind thescenes since the beginning of
their company wanting to put outa magnesium because we cannot
stop talking about how greatmagnesium is, especially for
women.
In any stage of life, butcertainly as we're talking about
pregnancy a game changer and inmy opinion, a must have yes.
(06:13):
So it was actually really funbecause I mean, they just so
graciously asked our opinionabout their formulations and.
I mean, like, I don't considermyself a supplement expert by
any means, but we have spent aton of time.
Researching and understandingjust nutrition at its
foundation.
And so supplementation just endsup being a huge part of what we
(06:36):
help women achieve their healthgoals with.
I don't know.
And so.
Jacob was asked.
It was talking to me about,like, what do you think for the
capsule size and what do youthink about like, you.
You know, this amount, I can getthis into this, but will women
actually like, be able to takethat?
And I'm like, I have.
No idea.
I'm the wrong person to askbecause I will, I will swallow a
(06:58):
huge pill.
Yep.
And I forget that that's a hugebarrier to women.
So I was, I was like, I don'tknow, just like go in the middle
with that one, Jacob.
But he chose the smaller, thesmaller capsule size.
And it was, it was likethoughtful that he did that.
They did that so thoughtful.
So there's so much that goesinto these supplements.
That is not even just about theingredients, that the other
(07:19):
thing that absolutely blew mymind while we were collaborating
with them on this particularmagnesium supplement.
Is how crazy the market is formagnesium supplementation and
the additives and the differenttypes of magnesium that they're
putting inside of the supplementthat is not pure magnesium
(07:42):
Mycenae.
And so when that was brought tomy attention, With that, you
know, the research that theywere doing while they were
formulating this magnesium.
Museum.
It just, it blew my mind and itdidn't.
It shouldn't have, because weknow that the supplement
industry is like completelyrampant with.
Terrible ingredients and fillersand cutting corners, et cetera.
(08:04):
And so that's one of the reasonsthat we just put a hundred
percent of our confidence behindwe heart nutrition, because they
do not do that.
There.
In fact, this supplement has100% pure magnesium glycinate,
and it is one of the only oneson the market that you can get
100%.
Pure magnesium.
(08:24):
Yeah.
So if you were interested inmore information about why women
need more magnesium.
We have an episode that we'lllink in the description.
The show notes for you to kindof check out And we will also
link you can go to we heartnutrition.com/beautiful one
midwifery.
If you would like a discount onthis magnesium or any of their
(08:46):
other incredible offerings, youcan use the code.
Beautiful one.
For 20% off.
Woo.
That's a good chunk then.
Anyway, there's all right.
There's our apply, but we lovethem over there.
And it's been really fun towatch them kind of share this
supplement because when Ishared.
On our social media, that they.
You know, started.
(09:07):
Selling this People went andthey bought a lot of it.
You know, they're just excitedbecause of what.
What you were saying, like itis.
It is quality and it's, theycomes in pretty packaging.
Oh, and that matters.
It matters a lot to me.
I have mine like set up and I'mlike, I actually will take these
because you're out on thecounter looking so cute.
Yeah.
(09:27):
And I mean, their, their entirecompany is just absolutely like.
Overflowing with beautifulfamily values that support so
much more than just women'ssupplements.
It's.
It's a wonderful, yes.
Beautiful thing happening.
Okay.
So we are going to chat aboutbirth now.
I wanted to share a little bit,and then I was going to ask you
(09:49):
TIF to share a little bit aswell.
My experience going into my ownbirth was.
My own first birth, I took achildbirth education class, the,
my goal, and I don't even knowwhy it really was, but it was to
have an unmedicated birth.
I really wanted to give birthwithout an epidural, wanted to
feel all of the things and kindof get to the other side of that
(10:11):
mountain.
It felt really important to me.
And so I put everything or whatI thought was everything into
place to.
You know, go and do that.
And the outcome of thatexperience was.
An unmedicated birth, right.
I'm like, okay.
That's amazing.
It's a good, it was goodempowering experience to be able
to get that the end goal ofthat.
(10:32):
But while I, while it washappening, I was like, At one, I
feel like I'm fighting for thisand two.
Yes, I'm without medication, butI have, where is my support for
this?
Right.
Like, great.
I'm I'm experiencing this thing,but it felt lacking in so many
(10:52):
places.
I feel like I was taken out ofmy.
W, you know, labor land so manytimes by bright lights and
talking and questions andtelling me what to do and
getting me on.
My back and you know, cuttingthe cord super quickly and
rushing a lot of things.
And I was left realizing, and Ididn't know how to put it into
words or really processed thatuntil I started learning more
(11:13):
about birth as I got into birthwork, but I realized.
What I wanted was an unmedicatedbirth, but what I wanted was so
much more than that.
And I didn't really have a, aword to put on it.
And I know we've talked aboutthis before, but we both were
doulas.
Before we became a midwives andI know that your experience.
(11:34):
You know, you had your own birthexperience of course, but then
experience supporting otherwomen in hospital births with
their desire to have anunmedicated birth.
I'm just interested to hear ofyour experience the first time
you feel like you actually I sawpotentially what, like I was
hoping for or what a lot ofwomen were hoping for in not
just an unmedicated birth, butlike a truly supported.
(11:57):
Physiological birth.
Yeah.
And I think it's important thatas we explore these two concepts
that we touch on the fact thatit's not just an outcome.
It's a philosophy.
So.
The difference between lookingback and saying.
Yeah, I had an unmedicatedbirth.
(12:19):
That is one that's one piecethat's separate.
Having a physiological birth,there has to be philosophy
involved because the settingthat you're in, the providers
that are around you, the peoplethat you've invited to support
you in your space, they allcontribute their philosophy.
And if they do not have thephilosophy of a physiological
(12:42):
birth being the best way forthat to unfold.
It will be very, very difficultfor you to be able to experience
that.
And I know some women arelistening.
Listening right now.
And they're thinking.
What's the big deal.
I don't understand, like I had.
Okay.
So maybe I had an unmedicatedbirth.
That was wonderful for me.
(13:02):
I felt very.
Achieved and not accomplishment.
And I look absolutely.
And like Kelly said, we're notpitting one thing against the
other.
But the women who are listeningright now who have had an
unmedicated birth and it feltlacking still, and they're
trying.
To figure out, well, I didactually get the outcome I
wanted, but it didn't happen ina way that made me feel very
(13:22):
empowered.
It's because it was notphysiological and your heart is
longing for a physiologicalexperience.
And for the women who have hadan unmedicated birth and then
went on to have a physiologicalbirth, they know that
difference.
They know what that feels like.
They know what it is like forthat philosophy to be.
In motion to experience the.
(13:44):
The action of what aphysiologically supportive birth
can be.
And so if you're sitting hereand you're wondering, like, does
this matter?
Like, do we even care?
Just to know it's becausethere's just, there's.
It's a lack of perspective.
And that's where I found myselfas a doula because my bursts
were not physiological in thesoul.
Litas and I've shared that storyon other podcasts before.
(14:08):
I cannot say with confidence ofany recollection, and this will
ruffle feathers, but that Ihave.
I've experienced a hospitalbirth that was truly
physiological.
I can't even with wonderfulproviders.
Even with unmedicated smooth,uncomplicated births.
I cannot say that afterexperiencing physiological.
(14:30):
Birth.
In a different, more supportivesetting that, that I would say
that was the same thing as aphysiologic, a potentially
physiological birth in ahospital.
So the very first time that Isaw a truly physiological
process unfolding before me wasthe first home birth that I went
to.
And it blew my mind because.
(14:50):
The mom was doing, basicallyeverything that she would have
been doing in any setting.
It's just birth.
It takes over, you have to gowith it.
But everything around her wascompletely set up to support
that process.
And there were not.
Not unnecessary interventions,unnecessary words, unheard, full
(15:12):
suggestions, anybody pushingtheir agenda or their protocols
or their.
His desires on the process.
It was just allowing it tounfold and trusting that
process.
And it was intense.
I actually left that birththinking.
I don't know if that's better.
(15:32):
That was so intense that I'm notsure if that is a better
experience.
But then later on packing it,recognizing that although it's
intense and like birth is just,it should be intense.
It is absolutely.
It's insane.
Unpacking that leader.
I recognized that.
It was the experience that everysingle doula client that I had
(15:54):
worked with up until that point,they wanted to have that.
All their goals weresurrounding.
Somebody trusting and allowingand supporting their body.
To do the thing that it wasmeant to do.
And it's just.
Heartbreaking.
(16:14):
To see.
The disparity in those pieces.
Yeah, it almost feels likethere's a secret, right?
That's like not being told towomen or it's like, Just birth
just gets so covered up that wedon't really get to see, like,
it can be so much, it can be somuch more.
(16:36):
Right.
And so.
I've had very similarexperiences with doula clients,
especially who were, and I'm,this is not to change.
Anybody's Impression of theirown.
Birth.
When they say that was.
Incredible and the most amazing.
I'm like, yes, of course it was.
Yes.
I would never say anything tolike, shift to that for them,
but in my mind, as I'mprocessing things, I'm like,
(16:59):
Wow.
The trajectory of how thingsplayed out was impacted by what
other people were doing orsaying, or policies that were in
place or things that wererushed.
And yes, that's so great for thesetting that you were in.
That, that outcome, the way theythink things happened.
Wonderful.
But there is.
Like you're saying.
There, there is more there.
(17:20):
And so You know, avoiding theidea of avoiding medication,
that idea of being like, I wantthis UN or this unmedicated,
this natural birth.
That's like, it's a very good,very worthy goal.
Absolutely.
So if that's your goal, likeyes, absolutely.
You can work towards that.
But what we saw right.
When we were doulas and what wehear from women who come to us
(17:43):
for a clinical care.
What we see in our DMS onInstagram is that women are
fighting for that particularthing.
It's an uphill battle to simplyavoid an intervention, to avoid
medication within the medicalmodel.
Right.
Which at the end of the day, ifyou're thinking about that, like
my one goal is this I'm, I'm ina situation.
(18:05):
Situation in which everythingelse is kind of pitted.
At it against me in this, itreally comes down.
To this idea of what you weretalking about this general
philosophy.
Sufi.
Within a particular model withina particular space that you're
choosing within a particularprovider that is taking care of
you.
Like asking the question.
(18:25):
What is the underlying beliefthen about birth?
If this is the case, right?
If, if the case is.
It is hard to have anunmedicated birth in the
hospital that feels empowering,but it doesn't feel like a
fight.
Then what are we walking into?
Right.
Like, What's the philosophy ofbirth that we are knowingly
walking into.
(18:46):
If that's the case.
Yeah.
And I know like there's like whogets to decide what's
physiological?
Where does that word come from?
Who created the definition forthat?
I don't know.
In my mind.
It is what happens all byitself.
When nobody intervenes.
and 95 plus percent of the timethat cascade.
(19:09):
SCADE of normal birth event.
Happens really well on its ownand we can trust it.
Without other like high-riskfactors or other.
Complications that.
You know, coexisting withinpregnancy or birth dynamic.
We, we do have the opportunityto take our hands off and say,
we're expecting this to.
Well on its own, where areasthat we can intervene in order
(19:32):
to help the process along.
Only if it contributes to it,what.
It was already going to happenwell on its own.
And this excludes things likecomplications or.
Things coming up that you'relike, well, I trusted.
The physiological process.
Process and I was at nine and ahalf centimeters.
(19:54):
For 14.
Ours and what's that, you know,like, oh, we can get into that.
Like some other point.
But, but the huge, huge, vastmajority of women.
Do you have the opportunity toallow this to unfold well on its
own and it.
In some ways.
That oversimplifies things andmakes it seem like all you have.
(20:15):
To do is.
Just give birth at home with amidwife who doesn't mess with
you.
But usually that.
Choice.
Creates an opportunity for.
The woman and her partner takinga whole lot more responsibility.
Truly understanding and trustingwhat her body is meant to do.
(20:38):
Supporting that in a reallyradical way, or at least radical
in our current society right nowwith the standards that are
surrounding birth in the waythat we teach.
Young girls.
About, you know, Birth andmotherhood, and it means
reprogramming all of that.
It means working throughout yourwhole pregnancy to like
(21:00):
psychologically and emotionallyengage in what is about to
happen.
It means educating yourself.
And educating your partner aboutho how are you going to respond
when you come across some of thechallenges like physical pain,
like physical exhaustion, like.
Some kind of complication that,you know, can potentially come
(21:23):
up and finding a provider and acare setting that aligns with
some of those pieces.
So it's not going to mean thesame thing for every single.
Woman.
Or how it gets played out.
And I have seen.
Physiological birth getcompletely wrecked.
At home birth with midwives.
(21:44):
So there's no good.
There's no guarantees out thereabout how the outcome is going
to be.
We can only rely on thephilosophy of it.
Yeah.
And this, it just brought up.
The thing that's been happeningon Instagram recently over the
last couple of weeks has beenlike a few people have shared
their birth.
Videos and talked about liketheir, Our lived experience
right.
Of like, this is my birth andhere's what I.
(22:06):
Believe happened or here's whathow it went down in my head and
people have been.
Commenting about like, oh yeah,well, they put their hands in so
XYZ or that wasn't really ashoulder dystocia because it
didn't have to be resolved inthis particular way or whatever.
And women being like, Yeah, butthis is, this is my perception,
right?
(22:26):
My experience.
And I think that that is a veryhelpful place to come from of
like, we don't get to judge.
What is, what for you inparticular?
And we don't even get to judge,like, maybe you don't want a
physiological birth.
Fine.
Right?
Maybe you don't want anunmedicated birth.
I'm not really a hundred percentsure why you're listening to
this episode.
But helpful to look at all ofyour options and whatever it is
that's right for you is rightfor you.
(22:47):
But I think understanding.
That underlying belief.
Those are two very separatethings that we're actually
talking about there thatunderlying belief of unmedicated
birth.
Basically.
Being an uphill battle in thatplace.
Meaning birth should besomething that's controlled,
meaning.
I feel better as a clinician orpotentially even as, you know, a
(23:10):
birthing mom who comes And says,like, I want to be in this place
because it makes me feel betterbecause I.
Potentially.
I'm not fully trove.
Maybe I don't fully trust birth,or maybe I'm.
You know, whatever.
And so just to helpfulrecognition of like, there's.
Two separate places that you cango with this and this whole
other philosophy.
(23:31):
That's more.
It's just deeper than simplyavoiding something, right.
We're not just avoiding anintervention, really a deeper
understanding.
Ending of like what can happen?
In birth again, when it is left.
To its own devices.
And left to this idea of areally undisturbed hormonal
(23:52):
orchestra that happens.
So.
What is impacting?
What, how is, you know, how hasyour adrenaline messing with
this?
What is your cortisol doing?
What's your oxytocin, all ofthese pieces, how they all
interact with each other andwhat can we do to support that?
So that everything is You know,Playing their particular tune in
a way that is actually going toCome out of you know, a
(24:14):
beautiful song will come out ofthat versus.
Something where it sounds likemy fourth graders playing the
recorder or something.
Right.
Like trying so hard, but notquite.
Allowing the pieces to trulycome together.
It reminds me of a discussionthat we had a little bit ago for
the down to birth podcast, wewere guests on their podcast.
(24:35):
I don't know if this.
That episode will have been out.
By the time this airs, but if itwas, we'll link it in the show
notes, but we were justexploring with them this concept
of like traditional midwiferyand hands-off midwifery.
And what does that look like?
Like what did, what do you meanhands-off and this is a part of
it.
The philosophy.
Sufi of, I'm not going to use myhands to try to influence what I
(24:58):
think needs to happen next.
I'm going to notice what'salready happening well and
support that.
And then I'm going to use myhands.
If we have to like have hands.
Part of it, right.
Two.
To support it and to use myobservation skills and to use.
My again, philosophy about birthto incur.
(25:19):
I encourage you and to create amore peaceful environment.
When we encounter a woman who ishaving a very difficult time
with her labor, whether it'sher.
Process of a normal labor.
Or whether it's a very, youknow, physically trying.
Labor.
We are always looking for how tosupport.
Physiology inside of that.
(25:40):
So in the medical model, theywould be like, oh, well, you're
having a very hard time.
Let's give you pain medication.
Let's help to move things alongso that this hard time is.
In shorter duration.
The philosophy behindphysiological birth is like, oh,
you're exhausted.
You're scared you have a senseof privacy that you're not
(26:01):
getting.
You have unmet needs.
We need to figure out how tohelp you rest.
We need to kick everybody out ofthe room.
We need to feed you.
We need to talk to you about howyou're feeling.
Those are the interventions weuse in order to restore
physiology or to help supportphysiology.
(26:21):
And so it's, it's not apples toapples.
There is not a whole lot ofcrossover that happens in these
two.
Specific lanes just because it'sa whole different way of viewing
birth and supporting birth.
Yeah.
And so if we're coming from itof this place of really trusting
and intentional design,
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