July 1, 2025 • 15 mins
Relebogile Mabotja speaks to Tando Ngibe a Senior Manager at Budget Insurance about the cost of scratches and dents on vehicle.
702 Afternoons with Relebogile Mabotja is broadcast live on Johannesburg based talk radio station 702 every weekday afternoon. Relebogile brings a lighter touch to some of the issues of the day as well as a mix of lifestyle topics and a peak into the worlds of entertainment and leisure.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Seven o two the Car feature time for the car
feature on seven o two afternoons and in our car
feature for today, we are chatting about the costs of
scratches and small dents on Dance rather and what they
really really do cost and share your stories and experiences
Audible one w A three oh seven o two in
(00:22):
the WhatsApp line oh seven two seven oh two one
seven o two. We're joined in this conversation by Tundo
and Gibet, senior manager at Budget Insurance. Tundo, welcome to
the show. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Thank you very much, and welcome hello to seven listens.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yes, you can welcome them to as well. Right, it's
our home together now.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I love that. I love that.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Okay, So let's talk about scratches and dents. And I
never want to assume everybody can tell the difference. So
from an insurance perspective of how are scratches and dents
differentiated in that world?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yes, so I think maybe if I just give you
a sentence for each you know, a scratch would usually
be defined as a thin or shallow, lengthy mark on
the top coat of the vehicle's paint. So that's what
we're called a scratch, and then you nobody have a dent,
which is a hollow indent on the surface of the vehicle.
So in a difference that the scratches usually really get
(01:30):
into that paint layer, and then the dents usually actually
get into the surface of the vehicle without necessarily damaging
the paint.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I got you, I got you, okay, So why is
it important to know these costs? I see many people
who are ensured driving around with little dents and scratches
on their vehicles. I'm probably one of them. Yeah, I'm
one of them.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
And then well, feel that the reason it's important to
the two things. It's important to fix these scratches when
they happen, and if you are in a position where
you can afford to fix them, you want to do that.
But otherwise, the specific covers that are available in the
market that deal specifically with scratch and dents. And let
me tell you why it's important. Cosmetic damage on a vehicle,
(02:20):
which is what we're talking about, devalues the value of
the vehicle at the point of selling. So what happens
is that the dealers that offer to buy your vehicle
need to get that vehicle looking as close as possible
to show room condition, and whatever money they have to
spend after purchasing your vehicle to fix those scratches and dents,
they will gut that from the offer that they make you,
(02:41):
so it never to be you actually get less money
for your vehicle if it has multiple scratches and dents.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Why do you think it is that people don't take
you head over and repair some of these scratches and
dents immediately if they do have access. And I will
speak for myself to say, sometimes the scratch or the dent,
if I look at it and say, this is probably
going to be the same amount as my excess, or
(03:11):
it's not that big of a deal. I'm just also
not trying to put too many dents on my relationship
with my insurer. What are the reasons that you've also
heard people speak of.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I think, really you've actually you've touched on the most
important one. I think most people when the scratch or
the dent happens, or the chip, people tend to think,
oh jeez, I've got an insurance policy which has got
generally an excess that is quite a sizeable amount. And
I don't want to ruin my relationship with my insurer.
Now that is very true as far as your comprehensive
(03:46):
insurance cover goes, because that is there to protect you
usually from the bigger incidence the accidents, the thefts, et cetera,
where we have to replace parts and do big repairs.
These products that we are speaking about, which I think
some people might not know of, are specifically designed only
to deal with these covers and don't affect what happens
with your comprehensive insurance policy. So it is understanding. It
(04:10):
is understood when these products are made that customers are
going to get a lot of tips and dents. Therefore,
it does not impact whatever is going on your main policy,
which would be your comprehensive vehicle insurance policy.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Okay, and I think many people do sadly find themselves
in some of those situations. Is there a risk that
dents and scratches outside of the windscreen and I'm not
sure you'll have to clarify if you speak of scratches
on a windscreen in the same way or you only
refer to them as cracks, But is it possible that
(04:46):
leaving them can actually make them worse?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Sure? So, when we dealing particularly with scratches, I think
there there is an opportunity that when the paint gets damaged,
it exposes that it'll the neat to moisture and to oxygen,
and those are really the ingredients for rust. And if
you're in the coastal areas, that problem is exacerbated because
the salty air and the high humidity in those regions
(05:12):
can accelerate that rust. So, unlike in a windscreen where
a chip can can become a crack, in this particular space,
what we normally find is the risk of getting rust
onto your vehicle, which is more expensive to fix later
down the line.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
I did not know that at all. Excuse me, I
did not know at all that you that that scratch
would expose it to start rusting quickly, just in terms
of you know, you're saying that you want your car
to be in its base condition. If a person has
(05:47):
already the decided that I'm going to be keeping this
car forever, they would probably have less incentive or interest
to do that.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yes, that is definitely the case. We normally see that
with with consumers, But I think it's important to highlight
their religilated that even though you might not want to
spend a lot of money because you're going to keep
the car for a long time. But not all of
these damages actually require paint to fix. So we usually
see that some of the small surface scratches that happen
(06:18):
on the metal parts and plastic parts of a vehicle
can actually be polished out. So there are other solutions
for people out there. So if you take it to
a car wash or to a place that polishes vehicles,
always ask them to have an attempt, and usually they're
quite telling you what they can just polish out. And
then in that way it's a much more cost effective
way to still take care of your vehicle without spending
(06:40):
too much money.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
All right, we're going to take a break, Tundle. When
we come back, we take all of your questions and
calls O double one double through your seven oh two
on the WhatsApp line oh seven two seven O two
one seven two seven O two the car feature twelve
minutes two three o'clock. We continue with our car feature
on double one double A three oh seven O two
(07:02):
and the WhatsApp line oh seven two seven O two
one seven O two. We are chatting about the real
cost of scratches and dents with ton don't give a
senior manager at Budget Insurance on oh double one double
three oh seven oh two and the WhatsApp line oh
seven two seven oh two one seven two, And now
(07:22):
we open up the lines. We've got a voice.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Note, Lay, my car is scratched. The scratch is you know,
a one rand coin. That's how big the scratch is.
But it's okay. The surface level paint is off, but
it's like a one rand coin. And the quotation to
(07:48):
fix that was four thousand, seven hundred. Does that make sense?
Why is it so expensive four thousand and seven hundred, Tao, No,
I know, now, how must I not have it? How
can I have a relationship with my insurer with the
four thousand and seven hundred quotation for a fifty cent scratch?
Speaker 1 (08:13):
No, my goodness, Sam, thank you so much. Sam Tunder
Maybe chat to us about when vehicles go for assessments.
I'm sure majority of the time customers are shocked at
how expensive it is.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yes, we're gonna you see it on a daily basis,
And I think maybe this paint example is a good
one to explain some of the reasons why it is
so expensive. So let's say you drive a red vehicle
when you come into my panel beating shop. I don't
have that specific paint for your vehicle ready and waiting
for you because these vehicles have got different paint coats.
(08:51):
That is how we identify the different colors. So usually
if you've owned the car for let's say two, three,
four years, depending on where you parked the vehicle in
the sun damage, it also happens that even your original
paint code is no longer accurate for your car because
it has experienced damage because of the sun. What that
needs to happen is that the panel detail, which they
(09:11):
usually would have a painting department, those guys would have
to make multiple paints in order to get to the
exact paint of your vehicle, and that is a very
cost exercise. Paint work vehicle pods goes out every single year,
and I think most customers who don't deal in that
industry are only short just to why it is so expensive.
(09:31):
But that's some of the realities that are out there.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
I love that you mentioned the color matching because that
is quite a big deal. Whereas for drivers you just
assume how red is red, green is green, but it
becomes very specific. But outside of for example, the color matching.
What are some of the other things that you can
(09:54):
share with us are a part of that process of
repairing a scratch that, like you said, has gone beyond
the paint level.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
So I think again, it will just depend on what
is going on with that particular vehicle. So another example
is the panel Beetles will do their best to keep
costs low by stalking the most common colors of paint
so that they are ready to mix. But if, for example,
you arise and they don't have a color for you,
it is not as if because the scratch is a
one grand coin they can from their supplier order the
(10:27):
amount of paint you need to paint a one grand
coin area. They need to order the smallest bottle they
can fight, which could be three hundred miles four hundred miles,
in order to do the mixing process, and then they
can only fix that little portion for you, and they
might never be able to use that paint again. So
beyond how expensive it is to just match, it's also
expensive to buy small amounts of paint because you are
(10:49):
not always certain that you'll be able to use that
paint again, and that increases the costs.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Okay, and I think that makes sense in terms of
after the let's say the filing down if I can
use that term that U s Lave people would understand,
and then doing the painting. There are other layers obviously
that need to go on top of that.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yes, So what we find with vehicles is that there's
a lot of prep work that goes into painting. So
as you were mentioning that the finding down process where
they have to prepare the car for paint, and often
they prepare that vehicle for painting. Only then can the
painting start. And I think what's important to you to
mention here. Chill is a concept that they usually referred
to as blending, depending on where the dentists, for example,
(11:34):
the dentists on your door close to another part like
a fender. Sometimes baby to paint across both areas in
order to get that color matching looking the way it
should be, because sometimes if you just paint one specific
small spot, no matter how good you are trying to
match that paint, it becomes very visible that some work
was done on at one point, So you normally end
(11:55):
up needing to paint a bigger area than just the
scratch in order to measure. There's the lived in well.
Otherwise the customer is not going to be satisfied with
the job if they can see what you've worked on.
They want the car to look the way it looked before,
which means you usually end up covering a way bigger
area than just the damage to the vehicle.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
We've got another voice.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Notehilaire, mine is not insurance related. But when I sold
my previous vehicle, I took it into a repair shop
to touch up the scratch, scratches and tents. When I
(12:36):
traded in that car, I received tenfold back and what
it cost me to repair that scratches and then so
it was worthwhile for me to spend that money to
repair the scratches and thence because I got it back
ten times on the that the dealer gives me. So
(13:02):
I think it's a very good thing, and it makes
your call look better and you feel much prouder of
your car.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
Seel pretoria harle will Yo cas crashes So my car
was it by a hail? But then the damage is
just on a bonnet, Yeah, on a bonnet. Luckily the
san rufe is fine, so I.
Speaker 6 (13:25):
Claim with my insurance and then the quotation comes back
as twenty four thousand, twenty four thousand, just tosk to
fix the bonnet. Then I went to these other guy's
in partorial wast I said, guys, yes, my car, can
you assays and give me a quotation? The quotation was
(13:45):
six thousand, So why then Sara quotation was twenty four thousand?
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Really all right, so Tonto maybe help us understand why
it is that the preferred suppliers of insurance companies are
sometimes more expensive than other people.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Sure, I definitely would love to explain that to you.
So there are multiple factors that creates that condition. So
one of them is that insurance companies would usually use
panel beaters that have to meet certain criteria. So, for example,
when you buy a vehicle from your manufacturer, your manufacturer
will give licensing to certain panel beaters to have permission
(14:29):
to work on that vehicle. And for panel beaters to
attend that licensing, they have to buy very expensive equipment.
So if you look at their splay food area, it
is very expensive. Some of this equipment costs millions. So
essentially the operating costs of a panel shop that intends
to do work for an insurance company is much more
expensive than if tundor opens up his own operation with
(14:52):
the intention to only service you know, his own customers,
because they're the requirement for me to have all the
certification or the equipm for me to have a qualified
spray painter, qualified panel better, I would not have that requirement,
but unfortunately the guys on the insurance panel have that
requirement and as a result, it costs them more to
run their businesses. Jency would normally find that when it
(15:15):
comes to quotes, the air quotes can sometimes be higher
than what you are able to find if you go
in to search for your own supplier.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
And that makes sense because obviously insurance companies want to
retain the best services for their clients, so if a
person wants to go out and fix it themselves, it
is at their own risk. A Tondle, thank you so
so much for chatting to us about this. And there's
so many questions that were coming through on this and
(15:43):
we'll revisit them in another car feature.
Seven o two the Car feature time for the car
feature on seven o two afternoons and in our car
feature for today, we are chatting about the costs of
scratches and small dents on Dance rather and what they
really really do cost and share your stories and experiences
Audible one w A three oh seven o two in
(00:22):
the WhatsApp line oh seven two seven oh two one
seven o two. We're joined in this conversation by Tundo
and Gibet, senior manager at Budget Insurance. Tundo, welcome to
the show. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Thank you very much, and welcome hello to seven listens.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yes, you can welcome them to as well. Right, it's
our home together now.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I love that. I love that.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Okay, So let's talk about scratches and dents. And I
never want to assume everybody can tell the difference. So
from an insurance perspective of how are scratches and dents
differentiated in that world?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yes, so I think maybe if I just give you
a sentence for each you know, a scratch would usually
be defined as a thin or shallow, lengthy mark on
the top coat of the vehicle's paint. So that's what
we're called a scratch, and then you nobody have a dent,
which is a hollow indent on the surface of the vehicle.
So in a difference that the scratches usually really get
(01:30):
into that paint layer, and then the dents usually actually
get into the surface of the vehicle without necessarily damaging
the paint.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I got you, I got you, okay, So why is
it important to know these costs? I see many people
who are ensured driving around with little dents and scratches
on their vehicles. I'm probably one of them. Yeah, I'm
one of them.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
And then well, feel that the reason it's important to
the two things. It's important to fix these scratches when
they happen, and if you are in a position where
you can afford to fix them, you want to do that.
But otherwise, the specific covers that are available in the
market that deal specifically with scratch and dents. And let
me tell you why it's important. Cosmetic damage on a vehicle,
(02:20):
which is what we're talking about, devalues the value of
the vehicle at the point of selling. So what happens
is that the dealers that offer to buy your vehicle
need to get that vehicle looking as close as possible
to show room condition, and whatever money they have to
spend after purchasing your vehicle to fix those scratches and dents,
they will gut that from the offer that they make you,
(02:41):
so it never to be you actually get less money
for your vehicle if it has multiple scratches and dents.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Why do you think it is that people don't take
you head over and repair some of these scratches and
dents immediately if they do have access. And I will
speak for myself to say, sometimes the scratch or the dent,
if I look at it and say, this is probably
going to be the same amount as my excess, or
(03:11):
it's not that big of a deal. I'm just also
not trying to put too many dents on my relationship
with my insurer. What are the reasons that you've also
heard people speak of.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I think, really you've actually you've touched on the most
important one. I think most people when the scratch or
the dent happens, or the chip, people tend to think,
oh jeez, I've got an insurance policy which has got
generally an excess that is quite a sizeable amount. And
I don't want to ruin my relationship with my insurer.
Now that is very true as far as your comprehensive
(03:46):
insurance cover goes, because that is there to protect you
usually from the bigger incidence the accidents, the thefts, et cetera,
where we have to replace parts and do big repairs.
These products that we are speaking about, which I think
some people might not know of, are specifically designed only
to deal with these covers and don't affect what happens
with your comprehensive insurance policy. So it is understanding. It
(04:10):
is understood when these products are made that customers are
going to get a lot of tips and dents. Therefore,
it does not impact whatever is going on your main policy,
which would be your comprehensive vehicle insurance policy.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Okay, and I think many people do sadly find themselves
in some of those situations. Is there a risk that
dents and scratches outside of the windscreen and I'm not
sure you'll have to clarify if you speak of scratches
on a windscreen in the same way or you only
refer to them as cracks, But is it possible that
(04:46):
leaving them can actually make them worse?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Sure? So, when we dealing particularly with scratches, I think
there there is an opportunity that when the paint gets damaged,
it exposes that it'll the neat to moisture and to oxygen,
and those are really the ingredients for rust. And if
you're in the coastal areas, that problem is exacerbated because
the salty air and the high humidity in those regions
(05:12):
can accelerate that rust. So, unlike in a windscreen where
a chip can can become a crack, in this particular space,
what we normally find is the risk of getting rust
onto your vehicle, which is more expensive to fix later
down the line.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
I did not know that at all. Excuse me, I
did not know at all that you that that scratch
would expose it to start rusting quickly, just in terms
of you know, you're saying that you want your car
to be in its base condition. If a person has
(05:47):
already the decided that I'm going to be keeping this
car forever, they would probably have less incentive or interest
to do that.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yes, that is definitely the case. We normally see that
with with consumers, But I think it's important to highlight
their religilated that even though you might not want to
spend a lot of money because you're going to keep
the car for a long time. But not all of
these damages actually require paint to fix. So we usually
see that some of the small surface scratches that happen
(06:18):
on the metal parts and plastic parts of a vehicle
can actually be polished out. So there are other solutions
for people out there. So if you take it to
a car wash or to a place that polishes vehicles,
always ask them to have an attempt, and usually they're
quite telling you what they can just polish out. And
then in that way it's a much more cost effective
way to still take care of your vehicle without spending
(06:40):
too much money.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
All right, we're going to take a break, Tundle. When
we come back, we take all of your questions and
calls O double one double through your seven oh two
on the WhatsApp line oh seven two seven O two
one seven two seven O two the car feature twelve
minutes two three o'clock. We continue with our car feature
on double one double A three oh seven O two
(07:02):
and the WhatsApp line oh seven two seven O two
one seven O two. We are chatting about the real
cost of scratches and dents with ton don't give a
senior manager at Budget Insurance on oh double one double
three oh seven oh two and the WhatsApp line oh
seven two seven oh two one seven two, And now
(07:22):
we open up the lines. We've got a voice.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Note, Lay, my car is scratched. The scratch is you know,
a one rand coin. That's how big the scratch is.
But it's okay. The surface level paint is off, but
it's like a one rand coin. And the quotation to
(07:48):
fix that was four thousand, seven hundred. Does that make sense?
Why is it so expensive four thousand and seven hundred, Tao, No,
I know, now, how must I not have it? How
can I have a relationship with my insurer with the
four thousand and seven hundred quotation for a fifty cent scratch?
Speaker 1 (08:13):
No, my goodness, Sam, thank you so much. Sam Tunder
Maybe chat to us about when vehicles go for assessments.
I'm sure majority of the time customers are shocked at
how expensive it is.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yes, we're gonna you see it on a daily basis,
And I think maybe this paint example is a good
one to explain some of the reasons why it is
so expensive. So let's say you drive a red vehicle
when you come into my panel beating shop. I don't
have that specific paint for your vehicle ready and waiting
for you because these vehicles have got different paint coats.
(08:51):
That is how we identify the different colors. So usually
if you've owned the car for let's say two, three,
four years, depending on where you parked the vehicle in
the sun damage, it also happens that even your original
paint code is no longer accurate for your car because
it has experienced damage because of the sun. What that
needs to happen is that the panel detail, which they
(09:11):
usually would have a painting department, those guys would have
to make multiple paints in order to get to the
exact paint of your vehicle, and that is a very
cost exercise. Paint work vehicle pods goes out every single year,
and I think most customers who don't deal in that
industry are only short just to why it is so expensive.
(09:31):
But that's some of the realities that are out there.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
I love that you mentioned the color matching because that
is quite a big deal. Whereas for drivers you just
assume how red is red, green is green, but it
becomes very specific. But outside of for example, the color matching.
What are some of the other things that you can
(09:54):
share with us are a part of that process of
repairing a scratch that, like you said, has gone beyond
the paint level.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
So I think again, it will just depend on what
is going on with that particular vehicle. So another example
is the panel Beetles will do their best to keep
costs low by stalking the most common colors of paint
so that they are ready to mix. But if, for example,
you arise and they don't have a color for you,
it is not as if because the scratch is a
one grand coin they can from their supplier order the
(10:27):
amount of paint you need to paint a one grand
coin area. They need to order the smallest bottle they
can fight, which could be three hundred miles four hundred miles,
in order to do the mixing process, and then they
can only fix that little portion for you, and they
might never be able to use that paint again. So
beyond how expensive it is to just match, it's also
expensive to buy small amounts of paint because you are
(10:49):
not always certain that you'll be able to use that
paint again, and that increases the costs.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Okay, and I think that makes sense in terms of
after the let's say the filing down if I can
use that term that U s Lave people would understand,
and then doing the painting. There are other layers obviously
that need to go on top of that.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yes, So what we find with vehicles is that there's
a lot of prep work that goes into painting. So
as you were mentioning that the finding down process where
they have to prepare the car for paint, and often
they prepare that vehicle for painting. Only then can the
painting start. And I think what's important to you to
mention here. Chill is a concept that they usually referred
to as blending, depending on where the dentists, for example,
(11:34):
the dentists on your door close to another part like
a fender. Sometimes baby to paint across both areas in
order to get that color matching looking the way it
should be, because sometimes if you just paint one specific
small spot, no matter how good you are trying to
match that paint, it becomes very visible that some work
was done on at one point, So you normally end
(11:55):
up needing to paint a bigger area than just the
scratch in order to measure. There's the lived in well.
Otherwise the customer is not going to be satisfied with
the job if they can see what you've worked on.
They want the car to look the way it looked before,
which means you usually end up covering a way bigger
area than just the damage to the vehicle.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
We've got another voice.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Notehilaire, mine is not insurance related. But when I sold
my previous vehicle, I took it into a repair shop
to touch up the scratch, scratches and tents. When I
(12:36):
traded in that car, I received tenfold back and what
it cost me to repair that scratches and then so
it was worthwhile for me to spend that money to
repair the scratches and thence because I got it back
ten times on the that the dealer gives me. So
(13:02):
I think it's a very good thing, and it makes
your call look better and you feel much prouder of
your car.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
Seel pretoria harle will Yo cas crashes So my car
was it by a hail? But then the damage is
just on a bonnet, Yeah, on a bonnet. Luckily the
san rufe is fine, so I.
Speaker 6 (13:25):
Claim with my insurance and then the quotation comes back
as twenty four thousand, twenty four thousand, just tosk to
fix the bonnet. Then I went to these other guy's
in partorial wast I said, guys, yes, my car, can
you assays and give me a quotation? The quotation was
(13:45):
six thousand, So why then Sara quotation was twenty four thousand?
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Really all right, so Tonto maybe help us understand why
it is that the preferred suppliers of insurance companies are
sometimes more expensive than other people.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Sure, I definitely would love to explain that to you.
So there are multiple factors that creates that condition. So
one of them is that insurance companies would usually use
panel beaters that have to meet certain criteria. So, for example,
when you buy a vehicle from your manufacturer, your manufacturer
will give licensing to certain panel beaters to have permission
(14:29):
to work on that vehicle. And for panel beaters to
attend that licensing, they have to buy very expensive equipment.
So if you look at their splay food area, it
is very expensive. Some of this equipment costs millions. So
essentially the operating costs of a panel shop that intends
to do work for an insurance company is much more
expensive than if tundor opens up his own operation with
(14:52):
the intention to only service you know, his own customers,
because they're the requirement for me to have all the
certification or the equipm for me to have a qualified
spray painter, qualified panel better, I would not have that requirement,
but unfortunately the guys on the insurance panel have that
requirement and as a result, it costs them more to
run their businesses. Jency would normally find that when it
(15:15):
comes to quotes, the air quotes can sometimes be higher
than what you are able to find if you go
in to search for your own supplier.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
And that makes sense because obviously insurance companies want to
retain the best services for their clients, so if a
person wants to go out and fix it themselves, it
is at their own risk. A Tondle, thank you so
so much for chatting to us about this. And there's
so many questions that were coming through on this and
(15:43):
we'll revisit them in another car feature.
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