November 9, 2025 • 11 mins
We know that money influences politics - but just how much? And is there anything we can do to oppose it? As she's proved again and again, most recently as part of the Punter's Politics event also attended by Osher, Allegra Spender, Independent Member for Wentworth, has some ideas.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to the show. This is better than Yesterday.
Useful tools and useful conversations to help make you all
day today better than yesterday. Every week since twenty thirteen.
Thank you so much for being here. My name is
Osha Ginsburg. I appreciate you downloading the show. On Tuesday
last week, Audron I went down to Canberra to be
a part of Punter's Politics. Political fundraiser Punter's Politics. He's
(00:23):
a block called Conrad. He's a political communicator. Is having
huge cut through in the space around a fair and
equitable use of fossil fuel resources for example, and how
we as Australians might I don't know, see some upside
from our sovereign wealth being given to overseas companies for nothing.
He's a really fascinating guy. The room was sold out.
(00:44):
There's about three hundred people there. There was eight currently
sitting senators and members of Parliament in the room. He's
done a lot. The whole idea was to raise money
to hire a lobbyist, and we spoke about this when
Natalie Kuraku was on the show. The idea of yes
you can protest, yes you can block a road, but
where does the rubber actually meet the road. Where does
(01:05):
change actually get made, unfortunately in the current system is
when a lobbyist sits down with a politician or a
group of politicians in Australia and pushes their interest and
that is how change gets made. So the idea was like, well,
let's hire our own lobbyist and it was amazing. One
of the people who came to the event got a
standing ovation when she walked in the room, and as
the Independent member who went Worth electorate spender, she is
(01:28):
a powerhouse advocate for integrity and politics, for climate action,
for campaign finance reform, and the need for transparency in
electoral processes. At one point in the evening, Josh Stepps
did a whole episode of Uncomfortable Conversations and he had
Bridge McKenzie, Senator David Polcock, an elect respender on stage
and she spoke really strongly in this space. But her
(01:49):
views hasn't changed enormously since she was on the show.
So I thought it'd be world worth just remembering where
we are around integrity and politics and how money can
unfairly influence elections. The conversation you're about to hear was
recorded sh just over a year ago, and change can
take time, but these critical issues that Alliga and I
are speaking about really shape the future of democracy and
(02:12):
the government and the governance of our country. As I said,
she's been really vocal about the need for transparency and
campaign financing and the dangers of excessive spending and elections.
So I asked her what was her perspective on the
current state of campaign finance and what reforms she believes
need to happen.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I think it's about transparency. Where's the money coming from?
This of limits. I think on the level of pay
Clive Palmer and one hundred million dollars, that's a lot
of money from one Senate. See there's a huge investment,
and then also lies in political advertising. But yeah, those
are some of the areas that I think we really
do need to see elector reform, but also making sure
(02:56):
that different people can stand and for me, the main
point is that you know, competition's good, whether it's between
supermarkets or anywhere else. Nobody wants this of calls and
will worse of politics to be the only choices out there.
And I think it's really important that whatever we do,
and there will be reforms in this Parliament still make
sure that people from different backgrounds and different parties and
(03:17):
different you know, new kind of groups can also stand.
I think that shakes things up, and that's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I like the idea of avoiding a Colls and Wilworth
of politics. I think it's a fantastic metaphor, like, yeah,
where's the Aldi, Where's the Ida? I mean, if we
had Aldi of politics, then we have the isle of
dreams of politics. And that is something I'd be here
for because you know, you vote for someone and get
an air compressor or a plasma well dye. It's an
important reminder of diversity and representation. Something that can get
(03:49):
often misrepresented is the truth, particularly when it comes to
political advertising and political donations. And you know, when it
comes to political advertising, these things can really undermine, i'm
the integrity of a democratic process. So I want us
to know what specific measures she feels could be implemented
to address the challenges we face when it comes to
(04:10):
both money and politics and advertising around elections. How do
we get to integrity and accountability in our country? How
do we get there? What does it look like?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Honestly, I say this sincerely is vote independent. And the
reason why I say that I'll vote for good independence
in your local area. And I'd say that because independence,
both at the federal level and at the state levels
have really fought for integrity measures. You know, things like
the New South Wales IAKAC was driven by independence in
its Helen Haynes, Kathy McGowan and others. In the federal level,
(04:43):
they're the ones who've been really holding the government to
account and even things like the Parliamentary Budget Office, which
is you know, boring but important institution for integrity. That's
what was driven by independence. But what integrity I think
looks like. It looks like, firstly, it's a web of integrity.
It's not just one thing. Is no silver bullet. So
it's about firstly having a strong federal EYECAC with teeth.
(05:05):
It is also about having I think donation and election
spending reform. Because Clive Palmer spent eighty one million dollars
on the last election. I think that's really dangerous for
this country. I think that's probably the most frightening statistic
that you know, one person, one company can spend eighty
one million dollars on trying to buy in an election
and that's okay, Like, surely there's a problem with that.
(05:28):
And then it's also looking at how do we allocate
our resources, you know, our grant money are infrastructure projects
to what's most important rather than what buys marginal seed
Like those are some of the pieces of integrity. Then
it's like good media. You know, there are all these
sorts of things that it's part of that web.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
A web of integrity. I like the idea of that
kind of does show though, how are the how complicated
it is to address money in politics. A strong federal EYECAC,
which she talked about reforms in you know, election donations
and election spending is pretty clear as a thing we
need to do to help safeguard democracy. Speaking of money
(06:09):
in politics, don't I'm not in politics, but you know
I'm in the business of putting food in my fridge,
so I do have to play some ads. We'll be
back with a Legora Spender in just by, but we're
going to talk about how communities like the ones that
you and I live and can play a role in
getting these things changed. Thank you so much for listening.
(06:33):
We're just revisiting when a leg Spender came on the
show the second time and we talked about money in politics.
This is off the back of I spent last week
in Canberra. I spent a night in Camebra the Audrey
and we went to a big political fundraiser thing for
Punta's politics. It was Allegra was there and it was
it was really really interesting and so what she's got
to say on the issue is still relevant and still
(06:54):
really important, and what she really believes is that community
engagement is a critical counterbalance to the influence of money
in politics. We're Australians and we don't really like the
piss being taken and when enough of us get upset
about it, well it's pretty hard for things to not change.
Pop Cox said something really interesting on stage and his experience.
He said that things don't change, don't change, don't change,
(07:16):
and then just one or two extra people get on
board and then like that everything's different. And that is
it doesn't feel like anything's moving, but slowly, slowly it does.
And this is how grassroots movements can really make a
big difference when it comes to shaking political outcomes.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
We don't trust politicians, but we do trust our friends.
And so I think this is where actually, again the
power of you know, if you care about something. You
can make a big difference by talking to the people
you know about this and sharing that knowledge, and also
you know, and being armed. And I think for our
kids again, the point is for them to not just
(07:54):
feel like they're sort of passive consumers, but get them
armed and get them interested, get them involved. That's the power.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
It was a colossal swing from what was overwhelmingly yes
to know what do we not know? What do we
not know about? What was going on for that to happen.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Certainly some of the advertising that happened was there, but
I mean there are so many different reasons why I
think the voice went unfortunately was wasn't successful. And you know,
I was a big supporter of that. And I think,
you know, if I look at you know, Wentworth really
voted yes. Why do I think we voted yes? Partly
is you know, the community we are. But partly is
(08:34):
also you know, we were really active. We had you know,
a thousand volunteers out in the community having those conversations,
and I think that actually really that mobilized.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
The focus on community engagement is you know, clearly the
reason why she won the seat and then won the
seat again, the seat of Wentworth but that's that's really it.
When it comes to countering the influence of money and politics,
there's really no other way to do it. I like
the idea of mobilizing volunteers and her electorate. It really
(09:06):
does demonstrate the power of a grassroots movement when it
comes to driving change. And yeah, every vote really matters.
It really does, and more and more, every podcast really matters.
So I'm glad you came on this one. Thank you
so much for listening to the show. It's important to
have these kinds of conversations. The partner's politics thing is
really interesting. You go check out as YouTube channel. I'm
sure he's cut up a version of what we did
(09:28):
the other night by now because it was pretty interesting.
Because if you're not up to speed on election financing
and political donations, it's pretty murky. And I wouldn't be
happy with it if we wouldn't let any business run
that way without having to disclose where funds came in.
But that's where we are. I like the way that
(09:48):
Allegora had that she really had a vision. I guess
it was a call to action for all of us.
The full conversation is fab You can check out the
original episode. You just scroll back in the podcast feed.
You can find it there. Thank you so much for
listening to the show. Thank you Adam bunch Of for
pulling this together. On Wednesday, we're speaking with doctor Zach Sidler,
who is the head of research over at November. He's
(10:10):
an amazing guy. He's been on the show before and
it's a fabulous conversation about because he's expecting a dad,
he's expecting a baby, and so it's actually kind of fun.
At about forty minutes in, I kind of flip the
script on him because we talk about all this he has,
how to raise young men and how to raise d
da da da. It's like, what about you? And it's
fascinating watching him suddenly have to talk about himself as
a dad to be and how he feels about the world,
(10:32):
because it's wonderfully he really comes through and talks about
the things that he knows from all his work with
the November Foundation, and then how that would plaque practically
play a part in the life that he has. You know,
it's the kind of experience the rest of us, how
I guess. It's a great conversation. There's a lot of
stuff to take away particularly if you've got young men
(10:52):
or you know men you're worried about it in your life.
I really hope you check it out well. See you
on Wednesday. Thanks for listening.
Thanks for listening to the show. This is better than Yesterday.
Useful tools and useful conversations to help make you all
day today better than yesterday. Every week since twenty thirteen.
Thank you so much for being here. My name is
Osha Ginsburg. I appreciate you downloading the show. On Tuesday
last week, Audron I went down to Canberra to be
a part of Punter's Politics. Political fundraiser Punter's Politics. He's
(00:23):
a block called Conrad. He's a political communicator. Is having
huge cut through in the space around a fair and
equitable use of fossil fuel resources for example, and how
we as Australians might I don't know, see some upside
from our sovereign wealth being given to overseas companies for nothing.
He's a really fascinating guy. The room was sold out.
(00:44):
There's about three hundred people there. There was eight currently
sitting senators and members of Parliament in the room. He's
done a lot. The whole idea was to raise money
to hire a lobbyist, and we spoke about this when
Natalie Kuraku was on the show. The idea of yes
you can protest, yes you can block a road, but
where does the rubber actually meet the road. Where does
(01:05):
change actually get made, unfortunately in the current system is
when a lobbyist sits down with a politician or a
group of politicians in Australia and pushes their interest and
that is how change gets made. So the idea was like, well,
let's hire our own lobbyist and it was amazing. One
of the people who came to the event got a
standing ovation when she walked in the room, and as
the Independent member who went Worth electorate spender, she is
(01:28):
a powerhouse advocate for integrity and politics, for climate action,
for campaign finance reform, and the need for transparency in
electoral processes. At one point in the evening, Josh Stepps
did a whole episode of Uncomfortable Conversations and he had
Bridge McKenzie, Senator David Polcock, an elect respender on stage
and she spoke really strongly in this space. But her
(01:49):
views hasn't changed enormously since she was on the show.
So I thought it'd be world worth just remembering where
we are around integrity and politics and how money can
unfairly influence elections. The conversation you're about to hear was
recorded sh just over a year ago, and change can
take time, but these critical issues that Alliga and I
are speaking about really shape the future of democracy and
(02:12):
the government and the governance of our country. As I said,
she's been really vocal about the need for transparency and
campaign financing and the dangers of excessive spending and elections.
So I asked her what was her perspective on the
current state of campaign finance and what reforms she believes
need to happen.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I think it's about transparency. Where's the money coming from?
This of limits. I think on the level of pay
Clive Palmer and one hundred million dollars, that's a lot
of money from one Senate. See there's a huge investment,
and then also lies in political advertising. But yeah, those
are some of the areas that I think we really
do need to see elector reform, but also making sure
(02:56):
that different people can stand and for me, the main
point is that you know, competition's good, whether it's between
supermarkets or anywhere else. Nobody wants this of calls and
will worse of politics to be the only choices out there.
And I think it's really important that whatever we do,
and there will be reforms in this Parliament still make
sure that people from different backgrounds and different parties and
(03:17):
different you know, new kind of groups can also stand.
I think that shakes things up, and that's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I like the idea of avoiding a Colls and Wilworth
of politics. I think it's a fantastic metaphor, like, yeah,
where's the Aldi, Where's the Ida? I mean, if we
had Aldi of politics, then we have the isle of
dreams of politics. And that is something I'd be here
for because you know, you vote for someone and get
an air compressor or a plasma well dye. It's an
important reminder of diversity and representation. Something that can get
(03:49):
often misrepresented is the truth, particularly when it comes to
political advertising and political donations. And you know, when it
comes to political advertising, these things can really undermine, i'm
the integrity of a democratic process. So I want us
to know what specific measures she feels could be implemented
to address the challenges we face when it comes to
(04:10):
both money and politics and advertising around elections. How do
we get to integrity and accountability in our country? How
do we get there? What does it look like?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Honestly, I say this sincerely is vote independent. And the
reason why I say that I'll vote for good independence
in your local area. And I'd say that because independence,
both at the federal level and at the state levels
have really fought for integrity measures. You know, things like
the New South Wales IAKAC was driven by independence in
its Helen Haynes, Kathy McGowan and others. In the federal level,
(04:43):
they're the ones who've been really holding the government to
account and even things like the Parliamentary Budget Office, which
is you know, boring but important institution for integrity. That's
what was driven by independence. But what integrity I think
looks like. It looks like, firstly, it's a web of integrity.
It's not just one thing. Is no silver bullet. So
it's about firstly having a strong federal EYECAC with teeth.
(05:05):
It is also about having I think donation and election
spending reform. Because Clive Palmer spent eighty one million dollars
on the last election. I think that's really dangerous for
this country. I think that's probably the most frightening statistic
that you know, one person, one company can spend eighty
one million dollars on trying to buy in an election
and that's okay, Like, surely there's a problem with that.
(05:28):
And then it's also looking at how do we allocate
our resources, you know, our grant money are infrastructure projects
to what's most important rather than what buys marginal seed
Like those are some of the pieces of integrity. Then
it's like good media. You know, there are all these
sorts of things that it's part of that web.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
A web of integrity. I like the idea of that
kind of does show though, how are the how complicated
it is to address money in politics. A strong federal EYECAC,
which she talked about reforms in you know, election donations
and election spending is pretty clear as a thing we
need to do to help safeguard democracy. Speaking of money
(06:09):
in politics, don't I'm not in politics, but you know
I'm in the business of putting food in my fridge,
so I do have to play some ads. We'll be
back with a Legora Spender in just by, but we're
going to talk about how communities like the ones that
you and I live and can play a role in
getting these things changed. Thank you so much for listening.
(06:33):
We're just revisiting when a leg Spender came on the
show the second time and we talked about money in politics.
This is off the back of I spent last week
in Canberra. I spent a night in Camebra the Audrey
and we went to a big political fundraiser thing for
Punta's politics. It was Allegra was there and it was
it was really really interesting and so what she's got
to say on the issue is still relevant and still
(06:54):
really important, and what she really believes is that community
engagement is a critical counterbalance to the influence of money
in politics. We're Australians and we don't really like the
piss being taken and when enough of us get upset
about it, well it's pretty hard for things to not change.
Pop Cox said something really interesting on stage and his experience.
He said that things don't change, don't change, don't change,
(07:16):
and then just one or two extra people get on
board and then like that everything's different. And that is
it doesn't feel like anything's moving, but slowly, slowly it does.
And this is how grassroots movements can really make a
big difference when it comes to shaking political outcomes.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
We don't trust politicians, but we do trust our friends.
And so I think this is where actually, again the
power of you know, if you care about something. You
can make a big difference by talking to the people
you know about this and sharing that knowledge, and also
you know, and being armed. And I think for our
kids again, the point is for them to not just
(07:54):
feel like they're sort of passive consumers, but get them
armed and get them interested, get them involved. That's the power.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
It was a colossal swing from what was overwhelmingly yes
to know what do we not know? What do we
not know about? What was going on for that to happen.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Certainly some of the advertising that happened was there, but
I mean there are so many different reasons why I
think the voice went unfortunately was wasn't successful. And you know,
I was a big supporter of that. And I think,
you know, if I look at you know, Wentworth really
voted yes. Why do I think we voted yes? Partly
is you know, the community we are. But partly is
(08:34):
also you know, we were really active. We had you know,
a thousand volunteers out in the community having those conversations,
and I think that actually really that mobilized.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
The focus on community engagement is you know, clearly the
reason why she won the seat and then won the
seat again, the seat of Wentworth but that's that's really it.
When it comes to countering the influence of money and politics,
there's really no other way to do it. I like
the idea of mobilizing volunteers and her electorate. It really
(09:06):
does demonstrate the power of a grassroots movement when it
comes to driving change. And yeah, every vote really matters.
It really does, and more and more, every podcast really matters.
So I'm glad you came on this one. Thank you
so much for listening to the show. It's important to
have these kinds of conversations. The partner's politics thing is
really interesting. You go check out as YouTube channel. I'm
sure he's cut up a version of what we did
(09:28):
the other night by now because it was pretty interesting.
Because if you're not up to speed on election financing
and political donations, it's pretty murky. And I wouldn't be
happy with it if we wouldn't let any business run
that way without having to disclose where funds came in.
But that's where we are. I like the way that
(09:48):
Allegora had that she really had a vision. I guess
it was a call to action for all of us.
The full conversation is fab You can check out the
original episode. You just scroll back in the podcast feed.
You can find it there. Thank you so much for
listening to the show. Thank you Adam bunch Of for
pulling this together. On Wednesday, we're speaking with doctor Zach Sidler,
who is the head of research over at November. He's
(10:10):
an amazing guy. He's been on the show before and
it's a fabulous conversation about because he's expecting a dad,
he's expecting a baby, and so it's actually kind of fun.
At about forty minutes in, I kind of flip the
script on him because we talk about all this he has,
how to raise young men and how to raise d
da da da. It's like, what about you? And it's
fascinating watching him suddenly have to talk about himself as
a dad to be and how he feels about the world,
(10:32):
because it's wonderfully he really comes through and talks about
the things that he knows from all his work with
the November Foundation, and then how that would plaque practically
play a part in the life that he has. You know,
it's the kind of experience the rest of us, how
I guess. It's a great conversation. There's a lot of
stuff to take away particularly if you've got young men
(10:52):
or you know men you're worried about it in your life.
I really hope you check it out well. See you
on Wednesday. Thanks for listening.
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