S5 Ep9: Erin Kennedy on early detection of breast cancer

In this episode, Laura talks to Paralympic athlete Erin Kennedy, member of Team GB's Paralympic rowing squad and breast cancer awareness campaigner.

Erin speaks about how she continued competing to win a gold medal during chemotherapy, then winning again after a double mastectomy the following year. She also voices her strong support for breast awareness, and the importance of early detection of breast cancer. Finally, Erin shares some insightful thoughts about how she felt it was important to write her own narrative, and not let breast cancer define her.

You can follow Erin on Instagram @erinmwj and on X/Twitter @erinwysocki

Visit Breast Cancer Now's website for more information on the signs and symptoms of breast cancer.

Listen to the previous episode with Dr Liz O'Riordan, mentioned in this episode.

We’re Breast Cancer Now, the research and support charity. However you’re experiencing breast cancer, we’re here. For information and support, visit our website or phone our free helpline on 0808 800 6000 (UK only).

You can also watch this episode on YouTube.

Key Topics:
0:24 Laura introduces Erin Kennedy
1:38 Erin talks about her life as a Paralympic athlete
10:11 Erin's breast cancer diagnosis
14:04 The impact of cancer on Erin's career as an athlete
19:26 Erin's treatment for breast cancer
20:26 Continuing to train through chemotherapy
23:34 Telling family, friends and colleagues about your breast cancer diagnosis
30:00 Adjusting to life after breast cancer
31:23 Erin's tips for a good mental approach to a diagnosis
33:16 Why Erin felt it important to talk about her breast cancer
36:28 The importance of early detection of breast cancer
39:36 Breast cancer and body image
42:28 The challenges Erin experienced with her diagnosis
44:35 Erin describes her 'prehab' routine before breast cancer surgery
46:03 Erin looks to the future with her rowing now breast cancer treatment is finished
49:43 Writing your own narrative in the face of adversity
52:34 What needs to change in breast cancer?

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
This podcast contains the personal stories,opinions and experiences of its speakers, rather

(00:05):
than those of Breast Cancer Now. Welcome to theBreast Cancer Now podcast, providing support and
information to anyone affected by breast cancer.I'm Laura Price and I'm the host of the Breast
Cancer Now podcast. I'm a food writer and authorand I live with secondary breast cancer. Today we
are speaking to the Paralympic champion ErinKennedy. Erin is a crucial part of team GB's

(00:30):
Paralympic rowing squad and has many accolades toher name, including three-time world champion
and European champion, two-time world cup winnerand world record holder, and she even has an MBE for
services to rowing. Erin is also a breast cancercampaigner, particularly focusing on the
importance of early detection. She was diagnosedin 2022 at the age of 29. Amazingly, she continued

(00:56):
competing during chemotherapy, winning gold atthe 2022 European Championships. She went on to
win the 2023 European Championships after adouble mastectomy and 15 rounds of chemo. She's
now training full-time for the 2024 Paris Games,which are taking place in August and September.
Erin, welcome to the Breast Cancer Now podcast.Thank you for having me. Firstly, I just wanted to

(01:21):
say, wow, I am so honored to be in the company of suchan incredibly accomplished athlete and I'm in awe
of everything you've achieved both before andafter your breast cancer diagnosis. So thank you
for taking out the time out of your training to behere with us. No, it's been a long time coming and
I'm really pleased to be here. So we usually startby asking people about their breast cancer

(01:41):
diagnosis, but I'm going to switch up today and askabout your rowing. First of all, you're a coxswain
and I hope I've pronounced that right. For thosewho don't follow the sport, what does the cox do?
Yeah, everyone's like, do you have a drum? That'sdragon voting. I am sort of, the best way to
describe it is sort of between kind of quarterbackof American football. So I'm on the field of play. I

(02:04):
am doing a lot of strategy, sort of seeing how thegame's playing out, kind of leading the field. I
have a very close relationship with the coach. I'ma bit like a race desk engineer in F1. I'm getting
loads of data and I need to sort of convert hard datainto making the boat go faster. And then I am a
little bit like a jockey because I am sort ofgetting a free ride in the boat, steering and

(02:29):
basically getting them across the line. So I'msort of this weird combination between kind of
sort of technician, strategist, motivator andfundamentally it's kind of my job to get the best
out of people. You can row without a cox, but it's abit like going to the gym without a personal
trainer. You'll probably work smarter, maybe abit harder and most likely a bit better when you've

(02:51):
got sort of someone leading you there. That's me.Oh, wow. That is a great explanation and I've never
heard any of that before. So is it more mental thanis physical? Yeah, so kind of on delivery on the
day, loads of it is, I do loads of psychology work,working with the athletes and trying to get the
best out of them, kind of create a cohesive team.But I do all the land training as well. So I train six

(03:16):
days a week, you know, two to three sessions a day,partly for weight management because it's a
weighted sport for me. So I've got to be under 55kilos. But also it takes a lot, quite a big toll on my
body. It's a little bit like Formula One drivershave to be fit. And sometimes you're like, well,
you're just driving a car. But kind of the stuffthat's going through my body, a lot of it's kind of

(03:38):
core work. I do the neck exercises, you obviouslythe F1 drivers do as well. And yeah, I need to kind of
be fit and healthy in order to kind of be in the boatand do my job. So yeah, I do a lot of a lot of cycling
and stuff. And I've actually recently startedrunning. Because before my breast cancer
diagnosis, I actually had quite big boobs andrunning just was a no go for me. And now I'm like,

(04:01):
okay, let's find the silver linings here. Maybe Ican run now. So yeah, I started running. And yeah, I
do a lot of weight training, which I really enjoy,actually. And I think training was a real key part
of me sort of keeping that consistency and gettingthrough my treatment. But it also definitely
really helped me with like the recovery from amastectomy, kind of the prehab rehab, and all

(04:23):
those sorts of things. So I definitely think kindof an active lifestyle accidentally ended up
helping me when I didn't know I needed it. Yeah,wow. And how did you get into rowing in the first
place? I started at uni. So I went to Oxford, but I'dgone to a state school. I'd never come across
rowing. I actually did musical theater. I was likedrama kid at school. And I went to Oxford. And I was

(04:45):
like, I'll just give rowing ago, because everyonedoes. And you've seen the boat race, maybe, you
know, around Easter Sunday and looked fun. And Igot down to the boat park and I was like, five foot
three. They were like, have you thought aboutcoxing? And I loved it. I just got really into it
because I was sort of a jack of all trade master ofnone sort of sports person. But I love, I'm

(05:06):
unbelievably competitive, love all that sort ofthings. And I was like, here's this kind of really
niche sport where like the confidence and I thinkthe kind of language skills and even the stuff you
do in drama, like pitch, tone, volume, all thosesorts of things can be really utilised in a
sporting context. And yeah, I just I kind of fell inlove with it and then got into it and rowing at uni

(05:29):
and then never looked back really. That's verycool because I know a lot of people sort of say, you
know, I'm not sporty, I could never do rowing. AndI've never thought of rowing as not being, you
know, I've never thought of that side, that mentalside of rowing, which sounds amazing actually,
and it's about communicating. And it's about it'sstrategy and so much other stuff. I think rowing is

(05:50):
like the, I mean, I think it's the ultimate teamsport, because it's the ultimate leveler. Like, I
love watching rugby and I actually particularlylike watching rugby when they do like the pan
across the front where they're saying theatalantum and then the camera is showing every
different sort of shape and size and so I think, youknow, rugby and there are some sports where like

(06:10):
it's for every body type and every wall orwhatever. Whereas rowing is all about doing
exactly the same thing together. And to someextent, you're as strong as your weakest athlete,
like, and so you have to bring everyone together.And it's a very technical sport. And I think it's
kind of hard to appreciate unless one day you kindof sit in a rowing boat because it needs this

(06:33):
perfect combo of kind of power. And then it's alsokind of, you need quite a lot of resiliency. It's a
kind of power endurance sport, kind of likeswimming is really. And you have to do it together.
And as soon as it starts to break down,communication wise, technically, it's a very
slow boat and the boat starts to really pay you backif you kind of get that cohesiveness. And that's

(06:57):
what I really love, the kind of psychology side ofit. And partly why I train with the team as well as
well as kind of it's good for me is because, youknow, I want to be part of the team and it's good to
show up and do it with them. Before your breastcancer diagnosis, what would you consider to be
the biggest career highlight you've had? Wouldhave been winning the games in Tokyo. That's the

(07:18):
Olympic games. Yeah. Yeah. It was a bizarre,surreal experience because it was during the
pandemic. So we had been working towards Tokyo. Wecome into 2020. And, you know, we start the year
thinking we're going to Tokyo, you know, myparents, my husband, a book flight, it's like

(07:41):
everyone was going to come out and then thepandemic hit, obviously. And within quite a short
space of time, the games were postponed. And thenall of a sudden, you're sort of hitting factory
reset on a year where you've been really buildingmomentum. And that was also assuming that it would
be able to go ahead. It was an unbelievable feat tobring people from all nations together, which

(08:04):
obviously was such a big risk to actually deliver.And obviously, there was no crowds, there was no
spectators. We had to bubble before. So I didn'tsee my husband for about two and a half months in
total. And I've never really thought of the kind ofsacrificial element of sport, because I actually
just think it's a choice. It's a choice I make in thesame way as so many other jobs require X, Y and Z and

(08:30):
you spend time away. But it really, to me, I waslike, it wasn't about winning to make it worth it.
But it did feel that way by the time we crossed theline. There was a lot of relief as well as joy that
we'd done it. And it was sort of all worthwhile. Andhow did it feel lifting that trophy? How does it
feel? Because you've lifted a lot of trophiesknowing that you are the best in the world. It

(08:54):
doesn't grow old, to be honest. It still feelsamazing. I think hearing the national anthem play
for you and your team is pretty special. Over thesubsequent weeks, it sort of made me realise how
big it was, because we didn't have crowds. Wedidn't have that. Obviously, we knew people were
watching at home, but it didn't really feel realuntil I got home. And people who I've come across,

(09:22):
you know, once in my life, or people I went to schoolwith and I haven't heard from them forever, were
like messaging and things like that. And I think itmade you realise how much bigger you were part of
something so much bigger than yourself. Androwing is such a funny sport, really. We're just
trying to make things go fast from A to B. And in theground scheme of things, rowing boats don't go
that fast. Like, you see, we're working so hard,and then you look at someone just cycling next to

(09:44):
us. It's not an efficient way to travel. And it wasreally mad how much kind of everyone cared about
rowing. And Great Britain are pretty good atrowing. So even the people who've never touched
the sport would usually dial in and see that therowing is on and be like, oh, we're good at this. And
then, you know, flick it on. So it was amazing tofeel like you're part of something much bigger.
And I think that really hit me actually when we wenthome. And I was like, wow, actually, this is this is

(10:09):
really cool. Yeah. So moving on to your breastcancer diagnosis. So how and when were you
diagnosed? So the games were postponed to 21. So Itook some time off after the games until the
January just had a nice time when it saw my friendsand family who hadn't seen for a while and

(10:29):
restarted the year training, intending to kind ofbe building towards Paris. And we went on training
camp that May. And I genuinely was fitter andhealthier than I'd ever been. Training camp was
going well. We're in beautiful Italy. And I was inthe shower. As you can imagine athletes, I'm
showering, you know, three to four times a day. AndI was checking myself did kind of a routine sort of

(10:55):
check. And I noticed something that I knew I hadn'tfelt before and wasn't sort of normal. And I'd
actually had a lump one lump check twice beforeactually. And it had been been nothing. It was sort
of sat right in the middle, the previous lump andwhere it sat on my rib cage. It felt quite prominent
and actually under biopsy and and ultrasound. Itwasn't as big as it felt. Whereas this lump was sort

(11:19):
of was it was kind of here on the top of my breast, notquite as close to my rib cage. So maybe I could feel
it a little bit more. And I don't know if anyone elsehas kind of experiences when they found a lump or
anything like that. When you notice it, it feelslike it, you know, a kidney bean all of a sudden
feels like an avocado. Like you can't not see itanymore. And it feels mad that you didn't see it

(11:41):
before. And almost immediately, I got in touchwith the team doctor and said, I need to get I need to
get this lump checked out. And I actually had areally short space of time between coming back
from training camp and going off to a World Cup. AndI knew that I needed to get it checked before I went
to this World Cup, partly because it would just beliving rent free in my head. And also I wasn't going

(12:05):
to be hanging around another couple of weeks. Andthankfully I did. And I went and basically had had a
scan, had a biopsy. And to be honest, I just didn'tthink it was going to be anything because you
don't, you know, I was 29 really fit and healthy.And I was diagnosed about a week later. And it was

(12:26):
actually the day we were supposed to fly out to theWorld Cup, but I postponed my flight by a day. And it
was interesting, a lot of people always say, whatwas the moment like, you know, when you find out it
was cancer? I was pretty sure it was cancer themoment I walked into the room because I saw a nurse
in there. And I was like, oh no, you're here for myemotional support. And my poor husband hadn't

(12:47):
clocked her and sat down. So he's like looking atthe doctor and I'm like, oh, brace yourself, Sam.
This is not very good. And so yeah, I don'tremember, I don't really remember loads of the
meeting. I remember him sort of drawing, drawingon a piece of paper and stuff like that. But yeah, it
was that that bit was a bit of a blur. And that was whyI was so glad Sam was with me to be honest, because I

(13:08):
took him very little. As an athlete, you must knowyour body better than most people know their
bodies. Like, did you already know that you couldhave breast cancer when you were in your 20s, when
you were checking regularly? I was checkingpartly because there's sort of family history
paternity of breast cancer in my family. And mydad's sister had had it in her 30s. But I was being

(13:32):
relatively proactive. I kind of knew that peoplehad had it in a young, when they were younger. But it
was just sort of part of my routine really, andgenerally kind of in the shower and being kind of
generally aware. And as I said, I had quite bigboobs. And I was also quite aware that it's the
bigger the boobs, the harder to find those sorts ofthings. So maybe you've got to be a little bit more

(13:56):
proactive. But I genuinely genuinely just didn'tthink it would be anything. But I was doing almost
like my due diligence. When you were diagnosed,obviously, a breast cancer diagnosis is
devastating for anyone. But when your body is yourcareer, when your career is sport and you use your
body so much for that, did you worry that it wouldaffect your career? Yeah, I genuinely thought it

(14:24):
might be the end of my career. And I was also like,for history, when we've got three years between a
game cycle, not four, like I don't have time forthis. This is really inconvenient. And I remember
him telling me, you know, okay, it is cancer. I waslike, right, okay. And then you're instantly kind

(14:47):
of thinking like, okay, well, maybe I don't needchemo. So great, that'd be fine. I could do that.
And then literally, you know, the next sentences,and you will be having chemo, and you're like,
okay, maybe it won't be long. Like, you know, andyou're desperately trying to find like the good in
it. And I knew it was an interesting one because Ithink that mentally, I've been sort of preparing

(15:11):
for bad news, even though I do genuinely, you know,I didn't think it was going to be anything, because
I moved my flights by a day. I checked with my teamand the team management and I said, is it okay if I
fly out a day late? And they said, yeah, that'sthat's fine. If that's what you want to do. But you
need to think about what if this is bad news, willyou be happy to fly out and compete? Should you be

(15:34):
doing that? And and so I'd sort of had all thesehypothetical conversations with myself in a way
that I don't think if I wasn't due to go to the WorldCup, that I probably wouldn't have kind of mooted
these scenarios. And I sort of thought, you knowwhat, I will want to go because this could be my last
race. It was also I'd never raced at World Cupbefore and I it was the only one that I hadn't won and

(16:00):
I really wanted to add that to the roster. And yeah,I think it ended up being a really positive thing.
And also I knew that if I was diagnosed, how I wouldwant to respond and deal with the diagnosis and
what better way is there to kind of signposteveryone how you want to be treated by just
basically doing it and everyone's got to keep up.And that's essentially what I did. And did you go to

(16:24):
that World Cup? Yeah. And you won that one? Yeah.Okay. Yeah. It was yeah, it was a really weird one.
So I got diagnosed and then I called my mum and dad,my husband called his mum and dad. Then I called my
team doctor. I called my coach. And then I was like,okay, so my mum and dad came over for dinner, as did

(16:44):
my in-laws. And we basically told them what weknew, which at the time, obviously, was so little.
And I was like, right, I've got a pack, so you need toleave. And you know, my husband drove me to the
airport and I went to Serbia. And it was reallygood, I think it was the right thing to do because,
you know, I think one of the hardest times for mewasn't the diagnosis, it was waiting for

(17:09):
something to happen. Because I didn't feel anyillness. I didn't feel unwell. I'd found a lump.
And then all of a sudden someone goes, oh, you'renot well, actually. And you're like, fine. And I
think then kind of deciding to kind of be not myselfand sit back and kind of wallow in that for the

(17:32):
weekend, whilst my teammates were out competing,because they would have had to have replaced me,
would have really annoyed me. Like I would havebeen twice as grumpy, I think. Oh my god, the FOMO.
Oh, we're actually, I think the best thing for me todo is compartmentalize this and put it aside.
Because nothing's going to happen over theweekend. I'm not going to know anymore. And I just

(17:57):
need to enjoy this. I'm quite a visual person. Andin my head, those kind of subsequent weeks after my
diagnosis, I sort of saw it, this is sort of Venndiagram of I had this, my life now, and cancer life.
And I knew that as time went on, they were going toget merged and merged and merged. And eventually

(18:17):
the sort of dominant cancer life, theappointments, the scams, the chemo's, the
surgeries, everything was going to dominate thelife that I knew. And I wanted to enjoy living in
this sphere until I knew that I had to kind of letthat in. And that's sort of how I saw it. And it's
really lovely now being on the other side of it,where those, those two bubbles have separated

(18:39):
quite a lot now. And I dabble into my cancer lifeevery now and then with appointments and all those
follow ups. But I'm very firmly kind of got my feetin, in the non cancer life. Yeah. I think, like a lot
of people who've never had cancer, assume thatwhen you have cancer, you, you look ill and you see
mill and you act ill and you feel ill. But actually,I was the same as you. I was 29. And I was probably one

(19:03):
of the fittest I've ever been in my life. I wasdiagnosed on the Friday. I'm not an athlete like
you, by any means, but I was diagnosed on theFriday. And on the Wednesday, I think I did an 8k
run. And it was the fastest that I've ever run in mylife. And I felt really strong and fit. And then you
have cancer. So you can have breast cancer when youfeel amazing. And you know, you're really, really

(19:24):
super fit. So what treatment did you then have?Yeah. So I had my diagnosis. And then I did
fertility preservation as well, which I thinkoften gets glossed over. People don't know,
especially for younger people who are goingthrough cancer is that that's all of a sudden
something you've got to think about. And I was, hada really positive experience, to be honest with

(19:51):
you. All the kind of things fell into place. And itwas successful. And then, you know, the day after
fertility preservation surgery to kind of removethe eggs, I went straight into chemo. So I did
near-adjuvant chemo. So chemo first, because Ihave triple negative breast cancer. And I had four
rounds of EC every other week. And then I did 12weeks of paxotaxyl and carboplatin, which

(20:21):
basically took me from July to December. So it'sfive months, basically. And you kept training,
kept working throughout your chemotherapy?Yeah. How did that decision come about? Was it just
a natural? Was it a no-brainer? Yeah. I think juststopping would have been too much. Like, I always

(20:44):
say to, you know, my friends who are athletes whoare retiring or anything like that, like, don't
change everything at once. And sort of taking myown advice. I was like, I can't just stop and
become, you know, a cancer patient. I really hatethat sort of expectation of, like you said, like

(21:04):
when you get ill, you really fit in healthy. Andthen all of a sudden they're like, you're unwell.
And now you have to, I don't know, like be unwell andstuff like that. And I was like, I don't feel
unwell. Like, why should I? And so I just basicallymade the decision that, okay, I'm going to keep as
much normality as I can, you know, keep my feet inthat sort of non-cancer life as much as possible,

(21:25):
knowing that eventually, like I will end up havingto take a step back. So I carried them competing. I
went to the European Championships. I'd had tworounds of EC at that point. And it was every other
week. So it just happened to be in an off week, whichwas very convenient. And I think it was just a bit of

(21:50):
like bloody mindedness, a little bit of,thankfully, the way that my body responded to the
chemo was kind of positive. Like I definitely feltweird. But I wasn't being sick, which was amazing.
I'm a very sick person. So I was really worriedabout that. And I pretty much was like, I am all I

(22:11):
have capacity for is growing, sleeping. Eating.That's it. Like I didn't kind of dabble in other
things. I really kind of shut down my social life. Ireally was like, this is what I want to do. That was
really hard to do. I think high performance sportis like a moving train. It's pretty brutal.

(22:33):
Amazing highs, big lows. And I knew that this is, Isaid about rowing as the ultimate team sport. And
sometimes you need to know when you're slowing theteam down. And I thought I can do euros. I can do
this. But like, I won't be reliable enough for themand what they need from me for the next couple of
months. And actually, I need to look after myself.I still kept training. I'm still going in with the

(22:55):
team, but I kind of stepped back from theinternational competition side just to let them
kind of process and deal with stuff. Because Ithink that's another thing with cancer and breast
cancer, especially everyone knows someone and itreally brings people in and people are amazing.
But it is a big thing on other people, on the supportnetworks that you have, whether that's your

(23:17):
partners, your parents, your teammates, yourfriends. And to me, it was sort of recognizing that
I didn't want their energy kind of being going tosupporting me to achieve something I really
wanted to do and it compromising kind of what theywere working towards as well. Yeah, you've called
it the ultimate team sport multiple times. How didyou break the news to your teammates and how did

(23:41):
they take it and how did they support you throughit? What's up? Which is, I mean, they knew I was
having an appointment, so it wasn't too big of ashock. But I broke it to my teammates because I was
basically getting on the flight the next day to goand enter a competition environment and I needed

(24:01):
them to, I kind of needed stuff from them and theyneeded stuff from me. So I knew they were waiting to
hear the results of my appointment. So I reallythought about, okay, how do I, how do we both get
what we need out of this scenario? And I didn't havethe emotional energy to be FaceTiming or anything
like that. I needed to kind of be processing. So Iwrote them what's that message and I basically

(24:25):
said, look, this is what I know, unfortunately, isbreast cancer. This is what I know. I know that
we're treating to cure. I will kind of need some bigkind of interventions. I didn't say kind of, I knew
about chemo because I didn't want to freakeveryone out. But basically, this is what I know.
And then I will be coming out and the team doctor andmy coach know. And then this is what I need from you.

(24:51):
And then I basically was like, I don't want hugs. Idon't want you to ask if I'm okay. I want to really
enjoy the next five days doing my job and doing whatI love with the people I love. So thanks very much.
See you tomorrow. And it was, it was exactly what Ineeded. Like, everyone just respected by wishes

(25:12):
and it was great. And actually, I wish I could havethat clarity now, being on the other side of
cancer. And I find the kind of post cancer bitharder to navigate because I don't know quite what
I want. Like, I want to go back to, and I don't use anduse the word normal, but I want to go back to, you

(25:38):
know, a way of life that I kind of, it was familiar tome and but I don't want to pretend like it never
happened. And I wish I could write a WhatsAppmessage to everyone saying, this is what I want,
you know, I want acknowledgement, but I don't wantpity. I want this and I want that. But I haven't
written that because I have no idea how toarticulate it. But I think it was probably the best

(26:00):
thing I probably did around my diagnosis was justbasically laying out the expectations and what I
needed from people. Because I think that's one ofthe hardest things when you get diagnosed is
people don't know how to respond to you. And youwill have experienced it that people get it wrong
way, be more than they get it right with the best ofintentions. And it's incredibly hard to
articulate to them what's not quite wrong or rightor whatever. And yeah, I had a really, really good

(26:27):
few days at competition. And it was exactly what Ineeded. Because I left knowing that if it didn't
work out and I didn't do the auras that I, you know,was proud of myself and we'd gone and won the World
Cup. And if I had to retire, and that was the end of mycareer, I went out on a high and on my own terms. Why
did you say no hugs? Was that, do you think that was ayou didn't want pity? Yeah, I didn't want pity. And

(26:51):
I knew I'd cry. I knew that like that, like theholding of the hug, I think as soon as I was like
enveloped in someone's arms, I would be, you know,that compartmentalization would fall down and
I'd be, yeah, I'd be struggling. So I kind of, yeah,I just needed to, I needed to do the job. It's like
when you have the worst day or the worst week everand all these different things happen one after

(27:13):
the other and you're holding it up and you'reholding it up and you're holding it up and then
someone says, are you okay? And you're like, no.But I fully relate to your digital approach
because I did the exact same thing. I remember, andmine was in 2012. So WhatsApp was in its infancy,
but I remember telling people via WhatsApp. Andthen I wrote a blog post that went out to like
everyone. I told this sort of inner circlepersonally, but I never want to have to break that

(27:39):
news over the phone because it's just you're thendealing with everyone else's feelings. And if you
can do it digitally, then at least people can dealwith their feelings and then they can come back to
you with, you know, sort of, um, So, you know,you're a very rational and slightly less
emotional head-on because you, as the cancerpatient, don't need or want to have to deal with

(28:01):
everyone else's feelings on top of your own. Yeah,totally. It's tough. Giving everyone the space to
deal with it was really key. And I think, you know,you were really young as well when you were
diagnosed and it's the people that you've gotyour, you're in a circle who probably knew you were
having the appointments and things like that,like mine definitely did. And then there was that
like that one that's just half a step out where, youknow, you're not going to tell the world that

(28:23):
you're going to get a lump checked. And then it'sthose people and beyond who didn't know you were
going to get anything checked. So for them, itcompletely hits them out of nowhere. And I found
that, you know, really hard. Like I empathisedwith them almost. It was really bizarre. And if I'm
honest, you know, my husband kudos to him becausewhen I went away, I had a good weekend. I don't think

(28:48):
he had a great weekend. He called and told a lot ofpeople. So I didn't have to. And then I went and
competed. And then we just had a few days on our ownin Paris. And I just remember we met up and we did
lovely things and ate croissants and drank wine.And I was just like, have you Googled anything? It
was like, nope. I was like, nope, no, me. Okay,good. Like this. And we just were like, we're not

(29:11):
Googling. We're not doing this. We're just goingto like crack on. And we barely talked about kind of
me being unwell or anything like that. And it wasjust, it was, is what we needed. And so if anyone's
kind of listening to this and whether they knowsomeone who's been diagnosed or they've been
diagnosed kind of themselves is like, don't beafraid to go. Do you know what? Just, I'm just not
going to talk about it today. And don't be afraid totell people that you don't want to talk about it as

(29:34):
well because, you know, you just crave normality.And sometimes that's just the best thing. I want to
be able to answer the how are you question withhow's my life going? Not how's my treatment going?
Yeah. You also just reminded me of what you saidbefore about how you're in this sort of limbo place
at the moment where you're post cancer and you wantto go back to your life, but you also don't want to

(29:57):
forget that you don't want to pretend it neverhappened. And it is hard to, to know what to tell
other people because you don't necessarily knowwhat you need from them and you do want to move on and
you do want to be normal. Yeah. It's interestingbecause obviously I do a reason about media and
journalists are like almost like they don't say itas bluntly as this, but it's like, well, you know,

(30:20):
is there going to be a point where you're nottalking about cancer anymore sort of thing? And
I'm a bit like, no, I don't think so, you know,because it's still a big part of me and my life. And I
think actually the best way that anyone who hasn'tbeen impacted by cancer can think about it is like,
well, you know, we're not all still talking aboutthe pandemic, but there are hangovers in the way

(30:42):
that we live our lives, which were massivelyimpacted by the pandemic. Even if that's just
from, you know, a company that you work for wasreally slow digitally and now has had to like
really progress and now half your meetings areonline and you have hybrid working. It doesn't
mean you're still talking about the pandemic, butthe pandemic impacted your life in a big way. And I
think that's sort of how I feel about cancer. Andlike you say, it's sort of, I sort of see it like a

(31:06):
sort of, you know, like grief at one point, you'vegot like the ball of grief and it's hitting the
different sides of the square and it's hitting itall the time and it's so relevant. And now your life
is just sort of growing around it. It doesn't meanthat the cancer bit is not there anymore, but your
life is just kind of full of other things, which is,which is quite nice. Yeah. Your sport is as much
mental as it is physical. What was your mentalapproach to cancer? I know you talked about sort of

(31:29):
just not Googling it and not was there an area ofjust pretending it wasn't there or I actually
think being a sports person helped me so much goingthrough cancer. I always talk about it with rowing
is staying in your lane, like staying in your laneand focus on the race in front of you. In rowing, all

(31:49):
we're trying to do is go from A to B as fast aspossible. You know, it's quite simple and getting
distracted about what's going on around yousometimes can be like the biggest thief of joy when
you're comparing your experiences of cancer toother people. And so I think when I was first
diagnosed, I was like, OK, well, they've gottriple negative and they're having this and
should I have that? And I don't know. Oh, mygoodness. And and actually just understanding

(32:12):
that for me, you know, the way my body was going torespond to chemo and what was right for me and
surgery options and all those sorts of things,basically stay in your lane, like focus on your
experiences, your journey for cancer. And I thinkthat's one of a better word because on paper, you

(32:33):
could have two people with exactly the samediagnosis, same X, Y and Z and the outcomes can be
vastly different. And so I think that was reallyimportant. And then I think for me, then the other
thing was kind of reframing a lot of it. And I thinkkind of cognitive reframing is something, some
one of the best skills that anyone can have, but wedo it a lot in sport. And I mean, I bluntly, it's

(32:57):
finding the silver lining and putting contextinto what's going on in your own experiences. And I
think I basically chose to never say why me. This isunfair. And I think that was a huge part of helping
me get through it, basically. I hear you on thatone. Yeah. You've done a lot of press and we've

(33:17):
touched on this slightly, but you've done a lot ofmedia since your breast cancer diagnosis. Why has
it been important to you to talk about your breastcancer? I think it felt weird to not be sharing it.
And I'm not going to lie. Like I didn't have thebiggest profile like before, but you know, people

(33:38):
would know who I am in the rowing world at least andstuff like that. And it felt like I was hiding it.
And I was like, I have nothing to hide. This is notsomething to be ashamed of. And also I wanted to
raise awareness that it can happen to someone whowhen you're fit and healthy, I also wanted to talk
about it on social media because I knew I was goingto end up having to take a step back. And I didn't

(34:00):
want anyone to think that I'd retired or someonecould come and take my seat. I was like, I'm going to
come back. I kind of talked about it basicallyabout a month after I'd won the World Cup. And it
really kind of blew up far more than expected. And Iwas like, wow, this is this is amazing. And it was it
was lovely. And I really felt like everyone was onside and it was it was really nice. And then I did

(34:24):
some press around the euros. And that's when itkind of went a bit mad. And I just thought,
actually, do you know what? I haven't reallythought about this, but I just wanted to show that.
You don't change when you get a diagnosis. Likeothers change around you and how they respond. And
and but I think cancer is such a big weight to bear.It comes with so many preconceptions. I mean, I had

(34:50):
them myself going into cancer and people alsodon't get checked for a reason. People don't go
because they're scared that it might be cancer.And I was sat there going, well, here's someone who
potentially might end their career as a result ofthis diagnosis, who was really fit and healthy.

(35:11):
And I still feel like me. I still feel like the sameperson. And it did happen to me. So I'm going to
share it. And then anyone who wants to see, OK, whatdoes it look like to get something checked? And it
is the worst possible scenario. Because, yes,there's elements when it's really scary. But
actually, there's elements where it's funny.There's elements where there is joy to be found.

(35:35):
You don't lose your identity. And so just as it sortof rolled on, I just sort of gathered these people
who were following me and and supporting me for allmanner of reasons, whether they were interested
in rowing and my sporting side of things, orthey're interested in what's it actually like to
be a young person having chemotherapy? How did youmake these decisions and and all those sorts of

(35:56):
things? And, you know, just tried to kind of showwhat it's like for a real person, actually, just to
have this. And and it's just been a real privilegeto be honest, to be able to use my platform. I hope to
kind of show people that, you know, you don't loseyourself when you get diagnosed. You can still do
amazing things when you have a diagnosis. Andthere is life after cancer as well. Yeah. You know,

(36:19):
it's it's rehumanising cancer because it happensand how how you respond to it and deal with it is kind
of your biggest superpower. And you also took a lotabout early detection, don't you? Yeah, 100
percent. Because I just think that is the bestthing that you can do. It's like the best gift you
can give yourself and checking doesn't need to besomething that's difficult and you're not

(36:45):
looking for cancer when you're checkingyourself. You are looking to know what's normal.
So then then if something that pops up that isn'tnormal, you have the confidence to go and get it
checked out. And just being aware of the signs andsymptoms, I maybe fell into the stereotype of I
found a lump. But, you know, it could be anythingfrom kind of inversion of nipples or kind of

(37:07):
dimpling that shouldn't be there, kind ofpuckering discharge from your nipples, anything
that's kind of yeah, unexpected. And I think one ofthe reasons I wanted to really talk about it is that
both kind of, you know, breast cancer, but thenthere's also kind of the other embarrassing
cancers maybe that fall into that category,whether that's, you know, bowel cancer, cervical

(37:30):
cancer, variant cancer, you know, see, or men, theprostate, testicular, all these sorts of things
like we should not be prudish about talking aboutthese things. They're just bodies, you know, and
being comfortable talking about that in thepublic sphere. I think the more you talk about it,
the more you normalise it. Hopefully the morepeople start checking themselves and can see that

(37:50):
it's not a weird thing to do and it can be just part ofyour routine, just like brushing your teeth. When
it comes to knowing what your normal is, you it'snormally a touch feel thing rather than a visual
thing, even though looking is a really importantpart of checking. And how often does the average
person, you know, feel anyone else's breasts,know what dense breast looks like or feels like

(38:16):
versus not people with smaller boobs, biggerboobs and all these sorts of things. It is really,
really individual. So encouraging people to, youknow, you don't need to do it in a public change
room, doing it in a privacy room house is just it'sjust getting to know what normal is for you. And I
think I think it's just so important. And so I'mmore than happy to kind of take the take it on for

(38:38):
everyone else and do the embarrassing thing andtalk about boobs on national television. The
first one you do. And if one of our listeners doesfind one of those signs or symptoms, what should
they do? I mean, the first thing is go to your GP andunashamedly go to your GP, get in the field. And if
they brush you off, especially if you are younger,go to another one or go back again. Like do not get

(39:04):
pushed back because if it's something that youknow, isn't normal, then you push it. You know,
don't ever accept that you're too young for X. Likewe are actually increasingly seeing more young
women diagnosed with breast cancer and that mightbe also because we've got better awareness. So
people are catching it earlier, which isfantastic. So basically don't get turned away.
Keep pushing because it's your piece of mind. Andas I said, when I found my lump, as soon as I found it,

(39:30):
I couldn't push it out my brain and it will live rentfree with you until you get a check. Yeah, that's
very true. How has breast cancer affected yourbody image? I think it hasn't negatively impacted
my body image, but it has changed it. I think that Ikind of in my head, I was never not going to have it

(39:53):
almost like to me. I have never regretted thatdecision. But I would say one of the challenging
things is is dressing myself, actually. I don'tknow, may or was a bit of a rut, but you walk into a
shop and you're like, I like this, this suits me. Ishall buy it. And not being able to just walk into a
shop and pick stuff up has been like both confusingslash liberating slash irritating because I'm

(40:20):
now sort of left with half a wardrobe that I don'treally like anymore, but weirdly don't want to get
rid of yet. And just sort of figuring all that outhas been has been interesting. I found it really
frustrating trying to lift weights in the gym. Iused to be able to like, bash out pull ups and things
like that every now and then I just go and hang off abar and I'm like, nope, still feels weird. Like I

(40:44):
don't feel confident in my upper body to like liftweights and stuff like I used to. I'm getting
there. But, you know, the way that myreconstruction happened is I had implant
reconstruction is, you know, it fundamentallyyour chest has been reconstructed. That's where
the word comes from. And, you know, your pecs beenmoved the way that the different kind of chains are

(41:09):
working don't feel normal. And I've kind of foundthat quite frustrating. The big plus I have found
is bras are very much cheaper than they used to be.And I've tried to kind of lean in summer clothes. I
feel I'm getting there with like, oh, this is nice,a little top. And I can wear these sorts of things.

(41:31):
Winter clothes I'm still working on, but it's it'sdefinitely been more of a learning cover than I
expected, actually. I have not had a mistake to meat all. But I had my sternum bone, my entire sternum
bone removed last year and replaced with asynthetic one and had the latissimus dorsi taken
off my back and put onto my chest to help my bodyaccept it. So my chest now looks different. Like my

(41:54):
bone, my clavicle kind of sticks out and there'sless flesh on my chest. And it's all very weird. And
I've that's just over a year ago. And I have feltthose changes, that weirdness, how things feel
differently. I had to get back to swimming and justnot being able to swim at all initially. And then
slowly getting into doing front crawl, get intothe point where I can do front crawl as well as I

(42:17):
could do before I had the operation and stuff. Andit is all possible, but it does all feel weird. And I
can't imagine when that sport is your job, howdifferent that must be as well. But have you like,
how has keeping up the training and the competingthroughout your diagnosis and your treatment
been in terms of helping you and helping you getbetter? I think it was it was huge. Like I think one

(42:45):
of the hardest things potentially in that initialbit was when you have a diagnosis until you maybe
start the treatment is that kind of I'm lost. Idon't know where I'm going. What does my future
look like? Because I spend so much time knowing, Imean, if you said, Aaron, what are you doing on the
7th of June? I could literally be like, I'll behere, maybe in the country, maybe not. I'll

(43:07):
probably have these sessions. This isn't this.And all of a sudden not having that structure was
really hard. So kind of having the structure wasfantastic because it kind of gave me goals. And
then when that was taken away, I really struggledwith that, which was one of the reasons I was like,
I'm going to keep going into training and I'm goingto keep competing and knowing what I was working

(43:28):
towards. But the mental challenge, I think thebiggest one for me was finishing chemo and then
waiting for my double mastectomy. So I finishedchemo 8th of December and I was having the double
mastectomy 26th of Jan. Because the doublemastectomy was a huge milestone, which was full of

(43:50):
uncontrollables. There's no regular chemo.There's no end date. You're going to be better now.
You can go back to rowing. And there's a lot of riskin a double mastectomy and having a double
reconstruction as well. The surgery was eighthours. How are you going to come out of it? Will it
have gone well? I was also waiting to see if my lymphnodes had been impacted or not, thankfully they

(44:15):
hadn't. But am I going to have them all removed?There's a one in ten get a kind of an infection. If
you do get an infection, you might have to lose theimplants. There's all these sorts of things. And
it was that uncontrollable that I actually reallystruggled with more than the chemo itself.
Because I was like, I don't know how this is going toplay out. This is where the sports person of me came

(44:37):
in again and I spoke to my surgeon and I was like, I'dlike to prehab. What can I do? And she was like,
well, there's no official NHS prehab, but I guess.I mean, I'm going to be working in and around your
pecs and your shoulders. And so what can you do tomake my job easier? And so for anyone who is

(44:58):
potentially undergoing a single or doublemastectomy, if you want to sort of get your body as
well as you can, is basically stretching out yourpecs as much as you can. So it's kind of all kind of
pushing the shoulders back, sort of working onyour lats, working on your abs because you'll need
your abs to help you get up and around because youwon't be able to pull yourself up onto things.

(45:20):
That's more kind of on the other side of things. Butthen, yeah, as much as you can stretch out your
pecs, and it's as simple as like, you know, handagainst the wall and pushing and stretching out
that area because the looser your pecs are, theeasier it's going to be to kind of get in there and
reconstruct and hopefully, you know, make iteasier on the other side. I think that's also me

(45:41):
just trying to control the controls. You know, howcan I help myself the most? And so I just was like,
I'm going to be the best patient ever. And I thinkeven whether it helped or didn't help, I'm never
going to know. But mentally, it made me feelbetter. And so, and yeah, I did like my rehab every
day just to try and death really get back tocompetition. That's a great tip. And how are you

(46:05):
getting on with your trading for the summer 2024Paralympics? Yeah, going really well, really
well. So, yeah, I got back into the boat in May 23.And it was mad because I basically went and
competed at the European Championships in LakeBled in Slovenia. I'd never raced there. Oh, my

(46:25):
gosh, it's amazing. And they only have rowingregattas there kind of every kind of eight to 10
years. And so I know that I'll probably never racethere again in my career. So like, what a place to
kind of come back. And it was a year to the day I wasdiagnosed that the competition started, which if
you wrote that in a book, that would soundfar-fetched. And, you know, I just imagined being

(46:47):
there. And then I was there and it was just it wasamazing. And so that was kind of a really, really
big milestone in like, I'm back. This is good. Sosince then we raced that summer and qualified for
the games. And we've been in a really heavy winterblock recently, which has been quite a big toll on
my body. I then had kind of a second part of myreconstruction in October. So that sort of early

(47:13):
season, October to December, was sort of comingback from that second part of my reconstruction
because I had expanded implants, swapped form orpermanent implants. But, you know, I'm looking at
2024 with no surgeries, no chemo. And yeah, justgetting ready for the summer, which is really
exciting. The Olympics has always been sointertwined with my cancer life. And there's been

(47:39):
so many things that you've mentioned in thisinterview about the that made me think there's so
many parallels between sports and cancer becauseyou talked about your 15 cycles and reaching the
end of those. And it's like the final straight. AndI remember thinking of I remember coming to the end
of my chemo and thinking of cancer as like amarathon and you're reaching the finish line and

(47:59):
you're, you know, you've got all these differenthurdles to overcome. Yeah, there's so many sports
and allergies. But when I had my chemo, it wasduring the Olympics of 2012. And I can't remember
if my I think it was my first session. It was theBrownlee Brothers Triathlon, right? Yeah. And
I'm from Yorkshire and they're from Yorkshire.Yorkshire smashed it in the 2012 Olympics. And I

(48:23):
remember sitting in the chemotherapy unit at theChristie in Manchester and watching the Brownlee
Brothers cross the finish line as the final dripsof the chemo went into my veins and my mum and dad
were both there. And I still whenever I thinkwhenever I see the Brownlee Brothers on TV, it
brings tears to my eyes, especially that time whena few years later, I think in Mexico or someone, one

(48:45):
of them carried the other one over the finish line.And yeah, it's just, I don't know, sport is just a
great analogy with breast cancer. Yeah, I think itis. And I think like it's that you're nearly done.
And then and then when you and then when you finish,and I think I think there's also that kind of life
after cancer thing, I can see it in athletes aswell, because there's that bit where like you sort

(49:08):
of, you know, ideally win the medal and you know,and you have that. And then you're like, oh, whoa,
like that was a lot. And you're then like dealingwith like the aftermath, which has like massive
highs. But also, you know, like a lot of people whothen generally at games, people tend to kind of
retire afterwards or whatever. And then they'relike, no, what, you know, this has been my it's such

(49:31):
an identity thing as well. And this is and how do Imove on from that and and everything? Yeah,
definitely. There's so many overlaps. Yeah, Ithink it can all take a long time to process as well.
Yeah, definitely. You need time for that. Sothere's a lovely quote on your website that I'd
like to read out, which is, I didn't want breastcancer to define me, but ironically, it has more

(49:51):
than anything else in my life. The difference is Ihave written the narrative. What does it mean to
you to write the narrative? And is that somethingwe can do with any adversity in life? Yeah, 100
percent. I think that being the main character ofyour own story is the most important thing. And it
was for me. It was one of the reasons that I decidedto use my platform and speak out about breast

(50:16):
cancer is one of the reasons that I'm still talkingabout it now. And I hope I never stopped talking
about it, to be honest, because I think that I justdidn't want to be typecast as this or that or the
other. And I think it's the worst way to meet someamazing people. And I think that there are so many
people who have so many stories and are doing suchamazing work that it would be such a shame not to be

(50:44):
able to kind of like, you know, share what they doand share the importance of, you know, what it's
like to be someone with cancer and how then you canhelp others kind of support those people or
whether you have breast cancer yourself. It'sit's there's no one way to do things. And I think
that, you know, I've said it before, but like, Ithink cancer is such a can be such a burden to the

(51:10):
person that has it in a way that other big diseasesmaybe don't have that kind of rep and come with
these these kind of expectations orpreconceptions or anything like that. And I think
for me kind of writing the narrative, well, this ishow I want to do it. I was really interesting when I
was diagnosed. I my team doctor has been amazing.She's actually Steve Redgrave's wife, Anne, and

(51:33):
she's been kind of my link with rowing and the myoncology team and really kind of supporting me
through it. And she's been a team doctor for, Idon't want to say the wrong number here, but over 20
years. And she sees all these athletes comethrough the GB rowing team. We're a big team. It's
kind of at any time 70 athletes sort of in thetraining centre. She's like, we've never had

(51:56):
anyone with cancer before. An athlete havingcancer whilst competing. But she was like, but we
will again at some point. And actually there'salways a first. And for me, I was the first in
rowing, but I won't be the last. And so if I can go,OK, this is how I'm going to do it. Then that sort of
paves the way I hope for the next for the nextpeople. I think like a rising tide lifts all the

(52:20):
boats. And so, you know, if you can use yourplatform and keep talking about, I think that's
that's definitely for me. And that's that kind ofwriting the narrative was a really big part of me
and my mental state and getting through it. OK. I'dlike to end with the question we ask everyone on
this podcast, which is if you could change onething in terms of breast cancer diagnosis,

(52:43):
treatment and beyond, what would it be? Well,that's a big question. I think it would be to kind of
empower patients to have the confidence toadvocate for themselves to be able to ask
questions without time limits, to explore theoptions that are best for them with health care

(53:10):
professionals that aren't stretched and have thecapacity to listen to them and hopefully act on on
on what they want. And that goes all the way throughfrom early diagnosis through to choice over
surgery and things like that. And I think that.Yeah, kind of encouraging individuals that, you

(53:31):
know, you can advocate for your own health andknowing that that could be kind of received well as
well. So if someone is listening to this podcastand they have friends, perhaps who don't check
themselves or do check themselves and have foundsomething, what would you say to them? So, yeah, I

(53:51):
think that everyone should be checkingregardless of kind of age, size of breasts. And I
think it should just be something that justbecomes part of their routine. And sort of if
you're listening to this and you know that peoplearen't checking, it's directing them to kind of
the right resources to help them to understandwhat the signs and symptoms are and to encourage

(54:16):
them if they do find anything that's not normal,just to go to the GP. Because early detection
really, really can sort of save lives. And so themore we talk about it, the more we encourage it, the
better it is. You're not looking for cancer.You're looking to know what's normal and you know
what isn't normal and you can go and get it checked.We'll put a link in the show notes to the breast

(54:36):
cancer now website with the signs and symptoms. Wealso have a podcast episode with Dr. Liz
O'Reardon, where she talks about some of theterminology that you've used on this podcast,
which is talking about triple negative and whatthat is. And also talking about the grades and
stages, which can be very confusing terminology.So she explains all that in one of our episodes.

(54:56):
Erin, where can people find you or follow you ifthey'd like to get to know you better? If yeah, I'd
love for people to follow me. I talk about all sortsof things from breast cancer through to rowing and
everything in between, but baking, if you likethat as well. So I'm mostly active on Instagram. So

(55:17):
you can find me by searching Erin Kennedy or I thinkmy handle is erinmwj because my maiden name or I am
on X as Erin Vosotsky. But yeah, I'd love you tofollow me. And I'm also really open to kind of DMs
and asking questions because I spoke to quite a fewpeople when I was first diagnosed through the

(55:41):
wonderful community on Instagram. So if there areany one kind of wants to ask some questions that
maybe I haven't answered, there's literallynothing off the limits to me. Because the more I
think we talk about it, the more normal it becomes.So yeah, drop me a message. That is very generous of
you. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast andthank you so much for taking time out of your
training to be with us here today. Thank you, Erin.Thank you. If you enjoyed this episode of the

(56:07):
Breast Cancer Now podcast, make sure to subscribeon Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get
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to someone you think would find it helpful. Themore people we can reach, the more we can get breast
cancer now's vital resources to those who needthem. You can find support and information on our

(56:28):
website, breastcancernow.org, and you canfollow Breast Cancer Now on social media at Breast
Cancer Now. All the links mentioned in thisepisode are listed in the show notes in your
podcast app. Thank you for listening to the BreastCancer Now podcast.