Why Food Shame Is Keeping You Burned Out in Business | Jessica Setnick

🌿 If you’re navigating entrepreneurship and chronic illness, or simply craving a more sustainable way to grow your business without sacrificing your health, energy, or self-care priorities, explore Chronically You & Profitable (CYAP).

About this Episode:

In this episode of Business with Chronic Illness, I'm joined by Jessica Setnick, RD, CSSD, LD—a registered dietitian, eating disorder specialist, and founder of a nonprofit making eating disorder care accessible—to talk about the invisible energy drain keeping entrepreneurs burned out: food shame.

Jessica opens up about her own journey of having to go to therapy just to learn how to charge for her services, what she calls the "Mother Teresa trap" that keeps service-based entrepreneurs undervaluing their work. She shares how shame around food, eating, and body image is completely invisible (you can't look at someone and know what they're eating), and why this hidden struggle is stealing the energy women entrepreneurs need to recover from burnout.

We dive into why stress changes your brain chemistry and turns food into mood-altering medication, the critical difference between shame and regret (and why one keeps you stuck while the other moves you forward), and Jessica walks through practical ways to spot shame-based patterns that are draining your business capacity.

By the end of this episode, you'll walk away with:

• A framework for recognizing food shame - the specific signs that shame (not just your chronic illness) is keeping you burned out, including eating differently alone versus with people and overthinking every food choice.
• Understanding the stress-food-shame cycle - why your body uses food as medication when you're burned out, how this is brain chemistry (not a character flaw), and why weight stigma myths like "eat less, move more" ignore hormones, stress, and chronic illness.
• Permission to recover imperfectly - Jessica's reframe that recovery isn't about never having thoughts about food; it's about keeping the struggle at the thought level instead of letting it drive your behavior, plus where to start when you're ready for support (books, resources, and finding eating disorder-informed care).

Jessica's story reminds us that you cannot fix burnout by pushing harder when shame is stealing your energy; sustainable business growth starts with compassionate, practical tools that help you nourish yourself and reclaim the capacity you need to show up.

🎧 Want to learn more about today’s guest?

Visit CraftedToThrive.com for guest details, key takeaways, and extra links mentioned in this episode.

CYAP is my voice-first business system designed for women entrepreneurs, creatives, and women with chronic illness who want sustainable growth and burnout support while keeping life and wellness first.

It helps you use your voice and story to build a business with systems and strategies that run smoothly, so your work supports your life, not the other way around.

⭐ Enjoyed this conversation? Leave a review and share it with another CEO woman or creative entrepreneur growing a health-first, sustainable business.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
If you've been feelingdrained, unfocused or feeling stuck
in a cycle of doing what youfeel like is everything right, but
still feeling like you'rerunning on empty, today's episode
is going to share a uniqueperspective of why that might be.
We're talking about food shameand the quiet guilt and comparison

(00:21):
and body shaming thatsometimes crep up in our business
and how it can leak intoaffecting your energy and also lead
to burnout.
So listen out for how to spotfood shame, energy leaks and what
to do in the moment when theyshow up and simple mindset shifts
that help you nourish yourselfin ways that actually fuel your growth

(00:42):
in your business.
So in this episode I reallywanted to have someone to come who
could give us some supportaround this topic and her name is
Jessica Setnik.
She's a registered dietitianand eating disordered specialist.
Because she helps peoplereplace food shame with practical

(01:03):
and compassionate tools, we'reshowing you how to spot these shame
based patterns and simple waysto nourish yourself that actually
give you energy back and hasand how this directly connects to
your ability to sustainablygrow your business while navigating

(01:24):
burnout, healing or ManagingChronic illness.
Now, even though this topic ispretty heavy in some ways, it is
gentle, honest and full ofmoments that are going you rethink
and reset with your body andhow we think about our bodies and
how we treat our bodies andhow that reflects on how we show
up and build somethingmeaningful in our business.

(01:45):
All right, so stay tuned.
Welcome to Business withChronic Illness, the.
Globally ranked podcast forwomen living with.
Chronic illness who want tostart and grow a business online.
I'm your host Nikita Williamsand I went from living a normal life
to all of a sudden being inconstant pain with no answers to

(02:05):
being diagn with multiplechronic illnesses and trying to make
a livable income.
I faced the challenge ofadapting traditional business advice
to fit my unique circumstanceswith chronic illness.
Feeling frustrated and moreburned out than I already was while
managing my chronic illness tobecoming an award winning coach with
a flexible, sustainable onlinecoaching business, I found the surprisingly

(02:29):
simple steps to startinggrowing a profitable business without
compromising my health or my peace.
Since then, I've helped dozensof women just like you learn how
how to do the same.
If you're ready to create athriving business that aligns with
your lifestyle and well being,you're in the right place.
Together, we're shifting thenarrative of what's possible for
women with chronic illness and.

(02:50):
How we make a living.
This is Business with chronic illness.
I am so excited to haveJessica on the show and talking about
a pretty deep conversation.
I almost want to, like,preface this with trigger warning

(03:11):
kind of potentially for folkswho might be listening.
We talk a lot about life andbusiness, and obviously we talk about
different.
Different people's journey,but we don't.
We haven't talked about eatingdisorders often in this show.
It comes up kind of like as a whisper.
And, you know, our show is allabout bringing the whispers forward

(03:32):
so we can bring some light andremove some of the shame and the
stigma away from it.
Because if you're a businessowner, you don't.
You're not excluded from this.
And if you're a person livingwith chronic illness, you're also
not excluded from this.
And this can be chronic forsome people.
So I'm excited to have Jessicajust come in, and she has such an
expertise in this area and herpersonal journey.

(03:55):
So welcome.
Thank you.
I'm happy to be here.
Happy to see you.
Yeah, yeah.
So I'd love for us jump righton in and have you share a bit about,
you know, when we talk aboutdisordered eating.
When we first talked, I waslike, oh, there is so many places
we can go with this conversation.

(04:18):
And I think the theme thatcame up really importantly is that
disordered eating isn't justan eating disorder like there are.
It's the way we view how we eat.
Right.
And I'd love for you to kindof start from that higher level.
Sure.
Of.
Of where.
Where we can.

(04:38):
Where does that look like for you?
As an expert in the space, assomeone supporting the community?
I love the idea of reallybroadening our mindset about what
we think about eating disorders.
And that's why I actuallyprefer to use the words dysfunctional
eating or dysfunctional eatingbehavior or disruptive eating, because
to me, when you say eatingdisorders, we all get an avatar or

(05:01):
image in our mind of what that is.
Right.
And I don't even have torepeat it because I know everyone
knows what I'm talking about.
And really, only a smallpercentage of people with eating
problems fit whatever thatdescription is that we have in our
mind of sort of the standard.
And it's very outdated.
It's very biased.
It's very passe.
It comes from the way theeating disorder field was sort of

(05:23):
conceptualized early on.
And the truth is, anyone whoeats can have an eating disorder.
So we need to really broadenthat idea.
And it's been obvious to meever since I've been in the field
in other Words.
I didn't have to overcome theidea that eating disorders only affected
a certain group of people.
I had it the opposite.
I sort of faced that in the world.

(05:45):
Like, wait, I don't understand.
It's so obvious to me thatanyone who eats can have eating problems.
Why do I have to convince myprofessional organization of that?
Why do I have to convince adoctor of that?
It just seems so obvious to me.
And so just facing that sortof bumping up against society's idea
of what an eating disorder ismade me realize I need to change

(06:05):
the narrative.
So I'm going to actuallychange the words.
And so it's really just anyonewho is having a problem with their
eating, anyone who's eating istaking them away from their goals
rather than moving them towardtheir goals, whatever those goals
may be.
Whether it's to be wellnourished in the face of chronic
illness, whether it's toactually recover from a situation,
whether it is simply to feed a family.

(06:26):
Well.
Right.
Any of those things can bemade more difficult by sort of the
emotional aspects of eating.
And if we just think abouteating as fuel, then we're missing
out on a big part of thingsthat can disrupt our eating.
So I really appreciate yourway of thinking of this, of trying
to open minds about the factthat we're not trying to say, to

(06:48):
label people or put people in boxes.
We're just trying to say, hey,everybody who eats can have difficulty
eating, and it doesn't have torise to some level of some diagnostic
criteria or something likethat in order for someone to want
to change.
Yeah, yeah.
That is so powerful.
Just that angle of being like.

(07:10):
I can relate to trying tochange the narrative of what something
looks like from textbookversus a broader space of being like,
yeah, well, there's all ofthese other things to take in consideration
that, yes, the textbooks, Ibelieve, are very important, are

(07:31):
very helpful in the diagnostic area.
But often I feel like we miss.
I don't want to saybreadcrumbs, but the breadcrumbs
that lead to the bigger labels.
Right?
Yeah.
Are happening.
Yes, yes, 1,000%.
And to me, it's sort of that.
That idea of, like thestarfish, you know, the person throwing

(07:52):
the starfish back into theocean, and the.
The person comes along andsays, you can't possibly save them
all.
And the person says, well, butit mattered to that one.
Right.
It's kind of like that.
It's like, I feel like so manyof the, let's say, criteria or assessment
tests or whatever, they'rereally Trying to look at a big population.
How many people in apopulation meet these criteria?

(08:15):
When any one individual mightonly have one of those criteria,
but that's still important tothem, they're still having that problem.
Yeah, no, I totally agree.
Totally agree.
So how has this journey ofthis, this really big conversation,
this really big place startedfor you?

(08:37):
Is it a.
And I know we talk about thisin the, in the bio, but can you share
a little bit about what hasbeen your experience that led from.
Okay, not only am I wanting totalk about this and change this narrative,
but also let me translate thisinto like a space where I'm supporting
people, I'm supporting myself,even financially, having a business,

(08:57):
talking about this.
How has that journey been for you?
So it's very challenging.
And I think that probably alot of people listening have this
experience.
I don't think I'm unique.
But to be in a profession thatis 90 something percent female, it's
definitely looked at as sortof a social work kind of profession.

(09:19):
I'm trained as a dietitian.
We're not trained to ask for money.
We're not trained to be assertive.
We're not trained to see thevalue, the dollar value of what we
provide.
And we are very caregiving individuals.
And so having a business wasreally challenging for me.
I originally worked in ahospital and was just sort of disgusted

(09:40):
is the best word I can thinkof for how people were treated.
And I mean patients and I meanemployees, and felt like I could
do this better on my own.
Right.
So I started my own private practice.
And the first year, myaccountant said to me, are you prepared
to make a donation of $20,000?
And I said, absolutely not.
What are we even talking about?
And he said, well, that's what you've.

(10:01):
You have $20,000 of bills thatpeople owe you and they haven't paid
you simply because you haven'tasked them to.
And that was.
Wow, that was brutal, right?
To hear that.
That.
Because I didn't have theskills to.
And.
And where was I going to getthose skills?
I mean, you're not born withthat, right?
And in the hospital, you don'task a person to pay you for your

(10:24):
services, right?
You get paid by a third party.
And so it was really somethingI had to go to therapy about to make
it into a business andrecognize that there was value.
And my therapist kind ofhelped me recognize that.
I was, I was saying, but likeMother Teresa, Mother Teresa does
good works for free.
And here I am trying to chargepeople and she Said, first of all,

(10:45):
Mother Teresa has a wholeinstitution, a religious order that
is supporting her.
Okay, Mother Teresa still hassomeone paying her bills, right?
She still has bills andsomeone pays.
But on a bigger overview, shesaid, there's.
You're comparing yourself toMother Teresa.
Mother Teresa does good worksfor free.
You do good works for money.
You're forgetting that there'speople who do nothing all day.

(11:07):
There's people who do badworks for free.
There's people who do badthings for money.
Right?
And somehow you come out onthe wrong end of this spectrum.
And it was really quiteamazing to realize what I was doing
to myself, what I was sayingto myself in thinking, how can I
charge people for my serviceswhen that's how everybody pays their

(11:29):
mortgage?
That's how everybody puts foodon the table.
And yet somehow I felt like Ihad to do it out of goodness, which,
I mean, I think I am a good person.
I want to help the world withmy work, but I also have to make
a living doing that.
I mean, that was really toughtimes to get through that whole mental
hurdle.
That's a whole.

(11:50):
That's a whole other episode.
Jessica.
I mean, I think I'm curious,too, to think of, like, do you feel
like that that came.
I know as so many women wetalk to on the show are all.
Many of us are in that servicegiving, nurture field.

(12:13):
I don't think I have hadanyone who really isn't in that space
on the show.
Even if they are selling aproduct, even if they're in a tech,
there is a reason why they'redoing something, and it is truly
for the help of others, likehelping other people in some way
or giving something that theywish they had that didn't exist.
Right.

(12:34):
I wonder for you, where has.
Where do you feel like thatthought process of, oh, I should
be like, you know, not that Ishould be Mother Teresa, but I should
give these services away for free.
Where do you think thatnarrative came from?
Where do you think that beliefcame from?
Well, I think part of it is.

(12:55):
Comes from a really good,positive place.
I happen to be Jewish, and oneof the sort of principles of Judaism
is called tikkun olam.
Repairing the world.
Right?
Wanting to make the world abetter place, partnering with God
to make the world a better place.
Those kind of ideas are verymuch ingrained in being raised Jewish.
And so I think those are, youknow, that's very wholesome.

(13:16):
Let's say that what you dowith your day can impact the world
for better or for worse.
And Wanting it to be better.
But I also feel like I have avery entrepreneurial spirit in my
family.
But I. I now know my dad diedwhen I was 12, and I found some of
his papers from him having hisown business.
And it seems that he had this.

(13:36):
I don't want to say that itwas not good, but this sort of idea
that doing good things forcustomers is part of the way that
you drum up business.
Right.
So in other words, if you.
He was a watchmaker, if youchange someone's watch battery for
free, they'll come back to youwhen they have a more expensive job.
And what you don't mayberealize is that.

(13:58):
That you have to do this strategically.
Right?
You can't just be giving awayyour services for free.
So the way I would say I sortof have spun that into a positive
is if the people who canafford to pay me, pay me, then I
can choose to see however manypeople I choose who can't afford
to pay me.
But what my accountant wastrying to say was get the people

(14:21):
who can afford to pay you topay you.
Don't just not ask people topay you for your services.
So I think it came from a goodplace, but it wasn't necessarily
deployed in a very financiallysane manner.
I don't.
I think it was sane.
I think it's very sane to be agiving, but I also like.

(14:43):
And to be wanting to helpother people, but maybe sustainable.
I was gonna say not fight,like, not sustainable for you, the
person doing it, because, youknow, that's a huge piece of this,
like, the sustainability ofgrowing a business as a person who's
also dealing with their ownpersonal health challenges.

(15:05):
Right.
It is.
It's a.
It's a teeter totter.
Like, it really is of, like,okay, yeah, I can.
I know for myself personally,I. I have this conversation all the
time with, like, one of mygood friends who.
Lots of good friends who livewith chronic illness running businesses
where we're talking often.
And like, there's that fineline of, you understand what it means
for something to be out ofyour reach because of so many different

(15:29):
reasons, not just financially,just in general resources.
And then to have a businesswhere you're trying to offer resources
for some people where it mightbe out of their reach.
There is that.
You know, there's that fineline of finding where your values
meet.
I got to pay my bills, right.
And so I think there's.

(15:50):
There's power of having these conversations.
I always tell people there'snot a right or wrong answer to this.
It looks different foreverybody if someone's listening
right now who's listening tothe show.
And I know we have a lot ofentrepreneurs and we have a lot of
people who have been in thebusiness for a while who are just
starting mix thinking.
But what does it look like for Jessica?

(16:10):
What does that fine line looklike for Jessica?
Because maybe that might giveme a gauge of where my fine line
might be.
Yeah, yeah.
So I'll say it this way.
The best job I ever had when Ieven as being an entrepreneur, I've
sometimes taken, you know,contract positions, that kind of
thing.
The best position I ever hadwas one where I didn't have to charge

(16:30):
to present because I wasgetting paid by my organization,
right.
So I was getting a salary andso I didn't have to choose.
Like, I can speak to thisthird grade Girl Scout troop and
they can't afford to pay me,but that's okay because I'm getting
paid by my right.
So it was so freeing to me tonot have to get involved in those

(16:51):
negotiations and things like that.
It's harder when you have tothink of it in terms of what am I
giving up.
And yeah, if I have nothing Ineed to do on that day and I can
speak to that third grade GirlScout troop, I want to do that.
But I can't do that on a daywhen, let's say there's another job
that does pay money.

(17:13):
If that's the only time to dothat, I have to choose the thing
that pays money.
And that's.
It's challenging sometimes.
Luckily, I would say I'm ableto balance that most of the time.
Another example is an organization.
Someone heard me speakrecently about child feeding and
eating disorders and asked meto come speak to her community organization

(17:35):
of people who go out into thecommunity and help people with their
nutrition.
And so we were talking budgetand they can't afford my fee.
But because I work for myself,I can say what is in your budget?
And I can decide, you know,what it's in state, it's a driving
distance away, it's not a flight.
I can go there for that loweramount that they have in their fee.

(17:56):
And that's okay with me.
So I guess the line for me isI have standards of what I will do
for less money or for freeversus what I want.
And if you're going to makemoney off what I'm offering, then
that's not fair for me to dothat for free and then you make money
off of me.
But if you're a communityorganization with grant funding and

(18:17):
you have a fixed amount andyou're willing to give me that fixed
amount.
It just happens to be lessthan my fee.
I may choose, because Ibelieve in what your organization
is doing, to take that lowerfee because it helps me fulfill my
mission.
But at the same time, I'm notnecessarily saying I'll do it for
free because there is a valueand a cost associated with it.
So it's a.

(18:38):
It's a line, but it flexesback and forth.
It's not like a set line.
I get to be the one to decidewhich organizations I flex for and
which I don't.
Yeah, I love that.
And that's the.
I think that's the power ofbeing an entrepreneur is having that
ability to find your flex inyour flow.
I guess you will.
And deciding what works for.

(19:00):
For you.
Thanks for sharing that.
I think, like I said, I justlove having other perspectives on
how you might decide to findthat line of taking care of yourself
and charging.
And what does that look likein alignment with your value system?
I'm curious, and I actuallyhave a side hustle, I guess you could
call it, as a speaker coach.

(19:21):
And that's one of the mainthings that we talk about, is how
to make your decisions ofwhich organizations you will lower
your rate or you will speakfor free.
What are the.
What is the value that you maybe getting out of that as opposed
to letting someone takeadvantage of you or someone who says,
well, I can't believe youcharge that much.
I mean, I could find someoneto do it for free.

(19:42):
Well, as Mel Robbins wouldsay, let them.
Let them.
Someone to do it for free.
Right.
They're going to treat youlike that.
That's totally different from,we really value what you do.
I'm sorry, we just don't havea budget this year.
Tell us what we can offer youthat could help you.
Is there anything we could dothat might not be financial?
Well, you know, what if anorganization has a professional photographer,

(20:04):
professional videographer, andthey can provide a recording of my
presentation, that has a lotof value to me, even if they don't
have money, let's say.
So it's that kind of sort ofwillingness to have a discussion
with someone and negotiate.
That's why I feel like, youknow, black and white, yes or no
is not usually the ideal formost decisions in business.

(20:26):
I mean, yes, there's somethings that are definite.
No, like someone brushes upagainst you or something like, yuck,
no.
But, you know, I'm I guess in.
In the more broad sense oflike, is this the right opportunity
for me?
I need a lot more informationbefore I can say a definite yes or
no.
So.
Such a good point.
Such a good point.
And I think that shifts in ebbs.

(20:47):
The more you get intobusiness, the longer you've been
in business, that looks different.
And some things ick you right away.
And you're like, no.
And I think if you're firststarting, things ick you and you
think you have to do the thingbecause you're like in that beginner
phase.
And I always tell folks, like,that's not true.
You don't have to.
And actually, I reallyencourage them not to do the thing

(21:09):
that feels icky at thebeginning because that's just almost
like creating this pathway inyour brain and this pathway in your
business of that foundationthat can lead to this feeling of
this invisible.
I call it like the invisibleimpossible place that you're not
really going to reach becauseyou are taking.
You're like, you're doingactions that are completely out of

(21:31):
alignment of what you reallywant and what you really are trying
to do.
So I appreciate you sharing that.
And speaking of invisible, Iwas just thinking kind of bring our
conversation back around toeating and eating well, or eating
not so well, right?
Well, and eating issues arecompletely invisible.
I mean, we have sort of beenbrainwashed to think that we can

(21:53):
look at someone and determinethat they have an eating problem
based on what they look like.
And it's completely false.
Just could not be more false.
You cannot look at someone andknow what they are eating.
And I mean, doctors think they can.
There's probably dietitiansout there who think they can.
But once you've been adietitian for any amount of time,
you realize, wow, some of thethings that we hear are just.

(22:15):
You couldn't even haveimagined them in your weirdest nightmare.
So it's very surprisingsometimes when you find out someone
is eating totally differentlyfrom what you might have made up
in your head.
Mic drop, like, I mean, that'sthe, that's the thing right there.
We make a lot of assumptions,even for ourselves.
I think if we bring it intoour own selves, what we consider

(22:37):
good, bad for us is alwaysbased on what we are seeing.
Other people, quote, unquote,say is good to eat, good to do, habits
to do.
I'll share a little quickstory and I'll ask you your thoughts
because I think our audiencewill appreciate this.
You know, I have friendswho've all gone, especially in The.
And I say friends, they'relike in their 20s.

(22:58):
I'm almost 40, so there's abig age difference.
But my 20 friends who arelike, on the juice, you know, juice
cleanse and on this thing,and, you know, juice is the best
way.
And then later on in life,they realize, well, there's some
things about juicing that Ididn't think about.
And, you know, you findyourself as whatever space you're

(23:21):
in.
I know for me, living withchronic illness, what I put in my
body is always something I'mthinking about because of how it
might affect me.
And for a long time, just theidea of a juice would, like, cringe
me to death because of thepain it would cause my digestive
system.
And they say, you know, somany people I've talked to is like,

(23:42):
juicing is the best way foryour digestive system to heal.
And from a visual, outsidelook, you know, it looks like that's
how it's supposed to be,because that's what all the healthy
people say they.
That they are experiencing.
And again, to your point, theinvisibleness that our bodies are
all made different.
And so the idea that everykind of trend is or not trend or

(24:04):
way of eating is healthy foryour body, I feel like is a missed
no more.
But it's something we hear allof the time.
I feel like so much of whatwe, let's say, learned as dietitians
contradicted itself.
Because on the one hand, we'relearning to be a nutritionist.
We're learning to look at eachindividual person and come up with
very individualrecommendations for them.

(24:25):
And then on the other hand,we're sort of told, this is the science.
This is how things work.
But it's not that way for everyone.
And it's so ironic to me that,you know, people, let's say influencers,
that's just a good examplethat they could say, this is what
worked for me, so this is whateveryone else should do.
That's absurd.
That's like saying, this is myshoe size, so you should wear this

(24:47):
shoe size too.
Like, what?
That doesn't make any sense.
And yet when it comes tonutrition, somehow we.
We hear that.
And what is so important toremember is that that is a marketing
message, right?
We don't think of it as thisis a marketing message.
Someone is trying to sell me aproduct or a diet or a plan or something.
And if we.
If we fall for it, I don'tthink the fault is ours.

(25:10):
I blame the people who arepreying on someone with a chronic
illness or with a dilemma thatjust want to feel better.
And so I blame them.
I blame the person who makesit sound like, this is what fixed
me.
So therefore, it's what'sgoing to fix you.
I. I think that is a. I thinkthat is people doing bad works for
money.
And they may actually thinkthat they're helping people, and

(25:32):
they may believe that, butthey need to really look within and
say, if I am actually helpingpeople do things that are hurting
them, then I'm not actuallyhelping them.
And you can sit behind yourcomputer screen and you can say,
well, they didn't have to do it.
That's fine.
But that is your marketing message.
That is how you make yourmoney is by preying on people who
are really desperate for a solution.

(25:53):
And that just makes me very frustrated.
Jessica's body language is,like, about to come get you.
Okay.
Like, if you're just listeningto this, I feel like Jessica says
she coming for you.
Who y' all do it?
Like, that's what I feel like.
Just came out.
And Jessica, just in case y'all wanted to know if you're not
watching the video, but I feel you.

(26:16):
I feel you.
I feel you.
I think if we are talkingabout food and nutrition and we want
to be more open and inclusive,because I can't even say for myself
personally that I haven't.
Like, I'm a huge essentialoils fan because it has lit.
It literally did so manywonderful things for me, managing

(26:37):
my life with chronic illness.
But I know that it's not forevery client.
Like, it's not for everybody.
Like, there are people thatit's not for.
So I have learned over theyears from my excitement, oh, this
worked for me.
And translating, like, well,actually, this worked for me.
And it may not work for you,but if you want some things, you
might want to consider, like,more of an open and way of talking

(26:58):
about this.
And I think when we thinkabout nutrition, because there's
so many, like, diets, I thinkI was reading, like, there's, like,
over 100 diets and all thesedifferent kind of things.
Yeah, right.
How can we be more inclusiveand understanding of the different
types of bodies or the peoplewalking around trying to figure out

(27:18):
the best way to be healthythat we can't see?
But we're offering advice, youknow, we're offering thoughts because
we did the juice cleanse, andit worked for us, but maybe it's
not going to work for your friend.
So I would say there's nothingwrong with sharing your experience.
It's more the bullying type ofthing or the you're wrong if you

(27:40):
don't do it this way.
And a lot of the reason thatdiets and pills and different things
succeed is because people areevangelists for it.
When they first get going andthey feel so much better or so much
different.
And by the time the effectseither wear off or maybe it was a
placebo effect and it was justexciting to have a new project, or

(28:02):
maybe they gain all the weightback or their symptoms recur or whatever
it is by that time nobody isan evangelist for it anymore, right?
Nobody is talking about it anymore.
And so people don't share,like, oh, by the way, that juice
cleanse, it gave me diarrheafor eight days.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like people only share it whenit's in the positive side.

(28:25):
So that's how things keep going.
And so I think being honestwith ourselves would be good and
I think being more of a, let'ssay a non judgmental listener would
be better for everybody ratherthan feeling like people are to blame
for their own situation.
I feel like that is soincomprehensible to me that people

(28:49):
have a hard time looking atthe systemic inequities or social
determinants of health.
Like, how can people just denythat that exists?
And it's like, okay, justbecause you didn't encounter this
problem doesn't mean otherpeople don't encounter it.
I mean, so when we're talkingabout chronic illness, I just constantly
come back to my own sleepdisorder and how when I have my own

(29:11):
practice, I started seeingpatients at 10:30 in the morning
because that was the best forme because I have a really hard time
in the morning and you know,when I had a job and had to be there
at 8 o' clock and you know, Ieither was or I wasn't.
But if I'm going to be seeingpatients in my own private practice,
I'm not scheduling someone fora time that I'm not 100% sure I'm

(29:31):
going to be at my best.
And so I would get to work at10 o' clock in the morning and if
someone was going to judgethat, be my guest.
Like, I just, I know what'sbest for me and I feel like that's
where it becomes very easy forother people to make these kind of
judgments.
And we do it to ourselves too.

(29:52):
But if we could all justrecognize that everyone is mostly
doing their best, trying, thenI think it would be a lot easier
for us to find the path thatworks for us, because we wouldn't
be getting so much pressurefrom outside people.
And I mean, that was a longanswer to your question.
But I feel like thisjudgmental idea of like, I am a human,

(30:12):
so therefore I know what itmust be like for every other human
to exist, and if I make thischoice, then everyone else could
be making this choice.
It's just such amisunderstanding of the diversity
of human experience.
So true.
And I think to bring it kindof circle back around, it's what

(30:33):
actually makes our all liveddifferent experiences invisible.
Because if we don'tacknowledge that there's all that
nuance and difference and ourbodies are different, then our experiences
are all just one label.
Like it's just that label we,we experience.
Right.
And it's easy.
Yes.
And I want to be very specifichere and call out one specific situation

(30:58):
in the world, which is weight.
It is so accepted in the worldto judge people based on their weight.
To assume that if someone isbigger than you think they should
be, that it must be becausethey're doing something wrong, they're
eating wrong, they're notexercising enough.
Those kind of things like thatis completely bs.
And it's like I said, youknow, when you're a dietitian and

(31:21):
you sit and you hear whatpeople are really eating and what
people are really doing, yourealize there are so many other factors
involved.
It is not just about eat lessand exercise more.
I mean, that is such a falsehood.
And I feel like if we couldtake one thing out of society, it
would be the idea that yourbody size is a direct function of

(31:43):
what you eat.
That take doesn't take intoaccount hormones, it doesn't take
into account neurochemicals,it doesn't take into account chronic
illness.
There's a million things thatdoesn't take into account.
And that's why you cannot lookat someone and know what they're
eating.
And it's, it causes so muchharm when medical providers look
at someone and say, in theirmind, this person's too big, therefore

(32:03):
they eat too much.
So what comes out of theirmouth is you need to eat less and
you have no idea.
That person could be eatingalmost nothing.
Because we just make up in ourhead, if they were eating the right
amount, their body would bethe finger quotes, right size.
And it's not how it works at all.
I personally, I can agree withyou, Jessica.
I have personally experiencedthat myself.
There was a time in my journeywhere I was like eating one meal

(32:26):
sort of a day and drinkingwater barely, because I was in so
much pain.
And every time a doctor wouldtell me that I needed to stop eating
as much, I would be like, I'mnot eating.
Like, like, I'm not eatingbecause it hurts.
So I don't know what's, you cannot.
Tell what are you talking about?
Like, you know, listening to me.
Yeah, yeah.

(32:46):
So I, I, I definitely think Iagree with you.
I think in general we, the, Imean, bmi, all these things we hear
from doctors, it's all very skewed.
It's all off.
If someone's listening to thisand they are having themselves a
relationship with food thatthey want to improve, they want to

(33:07):
have a better relationshipwith food in general.
What are some things, one,what are some thoughts that might
be like, hey, maybe, maybe Ido have a thing with food, or maybe
I don't.
Like, what are some things forthem to think about and what are
some signs that would alertthem to be like, this is maybe an
area I need to focus a littlebit on.

(33:28):
Differently, I would say twothings, regret and shame.
If you feel ashamed of whatyou eat, if you're eating differently
when you're with people versusalone, that is a clue that something
is amiss because we should notbe carrying so much shame about what
we eat.
And so the things you eat inthe middle of the night, if you wouldn't

(33:49):
eat that in broad daylight ona park bench, there's something going
on there.
The other thing is regret.
If you feel like, why did Ieat that?
Or why didn't I eat that?
If you're walking around kindof overthinking, rethinking your
food choices, then somethingis going on there.
It's, it's much more of athought process.
Note, I did not say if yourweight is going up, if your weight

(34:11):
is going down.
I mean, those can be signs,but they can also be signs of something
totally different.
The way you feel about youreating, to me is the most significant
thing that sort of points to,maybe I want to talk to someone about
this, or maybe I want to reada book about this.
Because the skills you'rebringing to the table, which is information
you receive from the peoplewho, who raised you and the, your

(34:34):
heritage, your ancestry, allimpacts the way you eat.
So instead of sort of buyingthe lie that everything I eat is
my own fault, we need toreally open our minds and think,
if I'm not feeling good aboutwhat I eat, then, like, if I'm eating
things that I know are goingto make me feel bad, or if I'm Scared
to eat, like you were describing.
That's the issue.

(34:55):
Not the weight issue, not thecalorie issue.
It's the fact that you're ahuman being who is basically made
out of the molecules of foodthat you've eaten previously, and
yet you're afraid to eat thesame molecules that are going to
help you heal.
That's the problem, not the weight.
Not at all.
Such a shame.
And regret.

(35:15):
I mean, that's.
Unfortunately, I feel likethose two things are, like, in every
aspect of your life that youthink you're having issues with outside
of food.
Like, that's a.
That's a core thing to thinkabout, to consider.
Yeah.
Well, and.
And honestly, I mean, shame.
I'm gonna get really, like,off track here for a minute, but

(35:37):
that is a tool of thepatriarchy, right.
Like, making you feel likesomething is your fault.
Right.
That's.
That's something that holdspeople down.
Look what you made me do.
I mean, even a lot oforganized religion and.
And I told you I'm Jewish.
There's plenty of shame inJudaism, so.

(35:57):
Right.
It's just some of these thingsare survival instincts, I think,
but they're the things thatare sort of hurting us from the inside.
And I. I feel like shame hasno place in eating.
Regret, I'm fine with regret.
If you regret what you ate,that's fine.
If you don't like it or ithurt, you don't eat it again.

(36:19):
But if you do eat it again,that's when there's something else
going on.
Right.
We think of it as, like, thistotally conscious control.
I eat, I make my own food choices.
I choose what I buy, I choosewhat I eat.
But it's not so cut and dry.
There's a whole iceberg ofemotions driving what we eat and
past experiences and pasttraumatic experiences and past food

(36:40):
insecurity and past chronicstress and current chronic stress.
And that affects our hormonesand chemicals.
I mean, stress saps out yourgood brain chemistry.
And the things that fix yourbrain chemistry are, you know, sex,
drugs, alcohol, food.
Right.
So sometimes we're using foodas medication, and it's not necessarily
a conscious choice.

(37:00):
It's something you're doing inorder to really help yourself feel
better.
And not eating counts, too.
That changes your brainchemistry, too.
So these are all things thatwe do with good reason.
So in other words, if you arethe owner of your own company and.
Or the CEO of your family orwhatever the case may be, and you
are succeeding in life, andyet you find yourself doing something

(37:23):
with your Eating that sort ofperplexes you.
It's not because you're stupid.
It's not because you're incompetent.
It's because there's somethingbound up in that that is not conscious.
And I know you do a lot of,like, you do a lot of workshops and
trainings and conversations onthis as a, as a collective, like,
within a space of people whohave the label.

(37:47):
I have this type of eating disorder.
I have this type of eating disorder.
And you brought, you bringaround the fact of, like, okay, can
we remove, can we get out ofthe label first?
And like, look at the whole picture.
And if someone's listening tothis, who has the labels, They've
gone to the doctor, they havethe labels and they're hearing this

(38:07):
conversation and they're listening.
What is a message for themthat you want them to walk away with
that maybe they haven't heardquite yet because they haven't been
in those rooms where you'respeaking and sharing about this holistic
point of view.
This is going to sound so notlike a good thing, but it is a good
thing.
A lot of times people havethis idea that when you have been

(38:32):
labeled with an eatingdisorder, that your goal is that
you're supposed to leave it behind.
You're supposed to get curedfrom it.
And I think there probably aresome people who have that kind of
an eating disorder, and that's okay.
I don't want to take that awayfrom them.
But for others who think thatjust doesn't fit me, like, it never
seems to completely go away,my message is, that's okay.

(38:55):
Your goal is to keep it at thethought level.
Your goal is not to never havea thought about, maybe I don't want
to eat that, or maybe I feelregret that I ate that.
Those thoughts are normal.
It's what you then do nextthat is sort of, to me, the, the
significant piece, right?
If I feel like I regretsomething and then I feel like I

(39:18):
really want to go throw it upand I, I think, oh, you know what?
That's not a healthy choice.
I'm going to take a walkinstead, or I'm going to call a friend
or I'm going to lay down.
It's the choice that you makethat I feel like is.
Is what's important, not thefact that you were tempted or for
me, sometimes my bodydysmorphia interferes and I hate
every clothes in my, in mycloset, right?

(39:38):
And so if I just don't go dosomething social because I can't
Find something that I want towear that I feel like is letting
it win.
But if I just put something onand I think, I don't know if I feel
good in this, but I just needto get out of the house.
Right.
Maybe it's like a bathing suitskirt with a T shirt on over it.
Whatever.
It got me out of the house.
Right.

(39:59):
So it's that kind of thing.
It's.
It's not feeling like if youstruggle that you're failing.
It's.
It's that struggle is realstruggle and try to keep pressing
onward.
And even if you have a lapse,like, don't let it convince you that
you're not moving forward.
I think that was maybe not asconcise as I could have said it,

(40:19):
but the idea is I feel likethere are people that will cheerlead
you and say, like, you'regoing to get better, you're going
to beat this.
And in some ways, I thinkeating disorders are so complex that
it's not something you're evergoing to beat.
In other words, it might be inyour rearview mirror, you know, in
the sense that it's not aneveryday dilemma, but under stress
they can flare up.

(40:39):
So don't be so mean toyourself if you know you're having
some really good days and thenyou have kind of a baddish day or
whatever you would define as abad day.
Okay.
So you struggle.
That's real life.
And try not to be so hard onyourself and sort of think of it
as like the zero tolerance policy.
That's just not how chronicillness works.
Yeah.

(41:00):
I mean, we could take thatadvice for every, you know, chronic
illness really is that there isn't.
I think a lot of us, I knowwhen we first get diagnosed or something,
dealing with something I knowfor me personally in my mindset is
like, oh, I needed to find,fix it, I need to eradicate it.
I need to get over it.
Right.
And then the 20 plus yearsI've been dealing with it, it's like,

(41:21):
oh, no, we, we just gonna befriends over here.
I'm gonna see you, I'm gonnaacknowledge that you happening, and
we gonna keep our going ourmerry own way.
We're gonna have some baddays, we're gonna have some ups and
downs.
And that's what I hear thatyou're saying is like, instead of
trying to feel like you'refixing yourself, it's just like becoming
more aware of yourself andgiving yourself that permission to

(41:43):
lean into.
You know, I'm growing, I'mlearning about this.
And I'm trying to feel better,but it doesn't mean I'm, like, going
to be perfect.
Yes.
Which is, you know, again,talking about that black and white
mindset, not race, black and white.
I'm talking about, like, thecolors, right.
Like black or white.
But that mindset, like theidea of, like, if I am not the perfect

(42:06):
eater, then somehow I am a failure.
There is no perfect eating.
There's just choices that youmake, and then they lead to more
choices.
And sometimes you may even eatsomething that maybe contained something
that you didn't realize it contained.
And you just think, I shouldhave known, I should have asked,
I should have.
Whatever.
And it's like, oh, my gosh,there is so much out there in the

(42:27):
world if you are sort of doingthe part that you can do.
I mean, that's all we shouldexpect of people.
Right.
Is not perfection.
But I feel like we are our owntoughest critics a lot of the time.
Such a good point.
That applies in every angle ofyour life.
Like what you eat, what youwear, what people you hang around

(42:50):
with, what business decisionsyou make, what marketing thing you
decide you're going to do withsales offer you're going to make.
It is you're going to have aplan and you're going to have a strategy
and you're going to do your best.
And sometimes there are goingto be things, variables that you
had no clue was coming intothat room or calling into that part
of the decision.

(43:10):
I always say that because Ialso have anxiety and the things
that I worry about are neverthe things that are going to happen.
Like, I never.
I never had the idea thatwe're going to have like a global
pandemic that's going to shutdown the speaking engagements for
two years.
Like, I worried about muchmore mundane things.
Right.
That have never come true.
So, yeah.

(43:30):
Yeah, that's such a funny point.
It's legit real.
Like, yeah, we are thinkingabout all these things, and I'm.
No, worse things havehappened, but not those little tiny
things.
And sometimes they aren't tinyto us.
They are not tiny to us.
The things that we dream up orwe think up and, you know, but they
are.
They are real to us.

(43:51):
I think that's the part ofjust realizing that we're growing
through that too.
Through the anxiety, throughthe shifts and change and that we
are human.
I think this is the part thatI feel like so many of us when we
go to try to do something,when we're healing.

(44:11):
As much as I love the wordhealing, I feel, to your point, marketing
has made it seem like it's aone and done thing.
Like, you are healed.
Like, you know, in the Bible,Jesus healed people and so you're
healed.
Like, that's the definition.
But I always tell people,like, yet they died again, because
that was for a moment of time.

(44:33):
It wasn't for ever.
So, like, in the context, thatwas more of a context conversation.
So I think people don'trealize that especially right now,
as imperfect and just human weare, we are all on this journey of
healing.
And it doesn't mean that it'slike a one and done station.
Like, you go to the gasstation and you just forever gassed

(44:54):
up or always have electric.
Like, we're moving through it, right?
Like, so I have this thought Ihave to share.
It's my toxic trait, which issaying, like, it's not that bad,
right?
So I am getting over a broken ankle.
I have this sleep disorder, Ihave anxiety, I get migraines.
Like, I could go on this wholelong list.

(45:15):
And all my brain says is, butyou don't have cancer, so you really
have nothing to complain about.
And it's like, oh, my God.
By that logic, then no one inthe world has anything to complain
about except the one personwho has the most terrible thing,
right?
And it's like, yes, There is apart of me that feels like, okay,

(45:35):
I'm walking in a boot.
My ankle is healing.
Like, yes.
It's not like the end ofwhatever my life, you know, la, la,
la.
But like, is it okay for mejust to be like, wow, life is easier
when I don't have a broken ankle.
Like, can I just let myselfcomplain a little bit, get a little
bit of sympathy and move oninstead of just saying I have to

(45:55):
be like Little Mary Sunshineall the time because other people
have it work.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Exactly.
We.
Exactly.
It's.
It's okay to have a really bad day.
It's okay to say something sucks.
It's okay to say, this righthere is the worst day of my life,
even though I know there areworse things happening in the world.

(46:17):
Like, it is okay.
Like, this is the thing I haveto deal with today.
Yes.
And I think it's.
I think it comes.
I think social media makesthis ex.
This conversation we're havinghere about it's okay to have whatever
day you're having challenging.
At the time of us recordingthis on June 23, there is a lot of

(46:38):
crap happening in the worldright now.
Oh, my God, yes.
So much stuff.
Right.
And we can all start feelinglike, well, we should be this, this,
this, because all of these things.
And it's just like we can'tall be experiencing and feeling the
same thing and having todismiss what's happening in our own

(46:59):
world, in our own body, justbecause the world has the world things
going on.
There's always world thingsgoing on.
Right.
And I think it's important tobe okay with acknowledging what's
happening in the world andstill be okay with acknowledging
that my little battle overhere in my little corner of the world
is my battle.
And it is difficult.
And it's okay for me to saythat, and it's okay for me to have

(47:21):
that as part of my life.
And it doesn't make me a bad person.
No, I think I have to hearthat over and over and over again.
And I think it's just adefense mechanism.
Right.
Minimizing what's going onwith me, you know, is as a way to
not feel how much it hurts tobe me sometimes.
Such a good point.
Such a good point.

(47:42):
Not feeling, which might meanwe're eating.
Might mean we're not eating.
Chemical.
I mean, no one thinks of foodas a mood altering chemical, but
it absolutely is.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's so many things aboutfood in.
In general, I think, whoyou're around, what you do, what

(48:04):
you're actually working, likehow you work.
What about just the foodthat's available in your area?
I mean, how do you think foodgets to you?
Unless you grow all your ownfood, you are at the mercy of the
people who do grow the food.
And God bless them for doingit, because I know that is not an
easy way to make a living.
Look, I'm trying to keep basilalive, and it's a problem.

(48:27):
I'm trying to grow cherrytomatoes and there's a bunny that
eats them before I get to them.
And I'm not going to doanything to hurt the bunny.
The bunny can have my tomatoes.
It's okay.
So I bite my tomatoes at thestore, even though I have tomato
plants right out here.
I'm feeding a bunny.
Yeah, yeah.
So what is a message you wantsomeone to walk away with?

(48:48):
We've talked a lot about it.
We talked a lot.
I can't say this.
We talked about a lot ofdifferent things in this conversation.
We talked about how growing abusiness and making those decisions
about taking care of othersand taking care of yourself, what
that could look like.
We talked about how you don'tneed to have a label to have something
going on with food.

(49:08):
Your relationship with foodcould be positive or negative.
It doesn't matter if you dohave a label.
You're not trying to fix you.
You're trying to embrace you.
Yes, I love that.
Right, Right.
And so if someone's listeningto this now, that's like, okay, Jessica,
Nikita, what do I do if I dothink I literally do have a bigger

(49:34):
problem than I'm ready toadmit to?
And who and where do I go for support?
So I would say a book isactually maybe one of the best places
to go when you're not quiteready to talk to a person yet is
to.
And the ones I can recommend.
Intuitive Eating is a great book.
Nourish is a great book.
Maybe I could give you somebook ideas and you could put them

(49:56):
in the show notes.
I'll put them in the show notes.
Yeah.
Because I feel like what abook does is it gives you sort of
a vocabulary, it opens thebook, your understanding of an issue.
Not.
Not every nutrition book isgoing to be so great.
There's plenty that I wouldnot suggest anything that has diet
in the title, do not.
That's not going to help yourself.
But some of the books thatreally are more about the thought

(50:18):
process of eating and how yougot here.
I have a workbook calledHealing your inner Eater, and I can
give the we'll use podcast fora discount code, and that would bring
the cost down for anyone listening.
And that's something where youcan start to look at kind of your
own eating thoughts and behaviors.
The goal being once you sortof either are doing a workbook or

(50:39):
are reading a book and you'restarting to sort of take notes or
just put sticky notes or notesin your phone or whatever of the
things where you're like, yes,that, that, that describes me.
That will give you betterwords when you go to see a professional.
So in other words, let's justrelive that example of when you went
to the doctor and they werelike, you need to eat less.

(51:00):
If you had had the words tosay, look, I was reading this book,
and it says if you're eatingless than blank calories a day, you
are not eating enough.
According to this book, I amnot eating enough.
You see what I'm saying?
It's sort of.
It gives you some oomph behindyour words that can help convey what
you're trying to get across toyour medical professional.
And that's where you, you, ifyou need to get your medical professional

(51:23):
to recommend you to acounselor, recommend you to a dietitian
you don't always need that,but you're trying to come up with
the way to describe what yourexperience is.
You know what it is, it's inyour mind.
But you want to try to find away to communicate it to someone
else so that they can help yousort through it.
And that's where the shamecomes into play is if you feel ashamed

(51:43):
of what you're doing, thenthere's no way you can talk about
it with someone else who cangive you a different perspective.
Yeah, such a powerful thing.
I think the point too you'resaying is that in order a way to
overcome shame is to educateyourself around what you might be
feeling, bring awareness tolike, you're not alone.

(52:04):
You're not like, this isn't right.
They wrote a whole book about it.
How can you be the only personthat's experiencing that?
Yeah, right.
So powerful.
We'll have those resources foryou guys in the show notes for sure.
But thank you.
This was a really fascinating conversation.
I personally feel like me andfood have always had a complicated

(52:24):
relationship multiply mostlysince just living with chronic illness.
I grew up myself personallybeing like allergic to certain things.
And so there's a lot of nuancewith that.
And as I grow, the more Ibecome more aware and read books
and listen to podcasts andthings like that has helped me a
lot around becoming betterwith my relationship with food and

(52:48):
when I eat and how I eat.
So I encourage everyone to dothat and that's why I'm excited that
we have this episode on the show.
But where can we find you andwhat's exciting for you that's coming
up.
So my, my sort of umbrellawebsite is jessica setnik.com and
there's free resources thereand usually somewhere there's a list
of upcoming events if someonewants to maybe come to a workshop

(53:12):
with me.
I'm thinking about doing anonline version of Healing your inner
eater.
It's not planned yet, I don'thave a date.
But if you go to healing yourinner eater.com there's a place I
believe where you can sign up.
I know there [e-mail] There's a pop
up and you can sign up to getupdates on whenever the next events
are happening.
So I'd be happy to stayconnected with someone through my

(53:33):
email newsletter.
And then you can always justreach out to me individually sometimes
if you're looking for someonein your area, let's say you wanted
to meet with a eating disorderinformed dietitian it's hard to find
the right person if you aren'tconnected, right.
If you're not hooked in.
So I wouldn't mind anyoneemailing me.
It's just Jessicaesicasetnik.com and I.

(53:53):
We haven't even talked aboutthis here, but I run a nonprofit
organization of eatingdisorder dietitians.
And our goal is to make surethat everyone who wants to get help
has access.
We fight with insurancecompanies to get them to cover eating
disorder care, all kinds ofadvocacy efforts.
But one of the things that wedo every single day is connect people
with someone who takes theirinsurance and who is, you know, licensed

(54:17):
in their state.
And so I'm happy to try tohelp connect someone who needs it.
That is powerful and so helpful.
I mean, as one who has to calla lot of doctors and finding having
someone who knows somebody orin an area or has a relationship
potentially is very helpful.
So I'm glad.
Well, definitely send me thatlink as well.

(54:37):
So we have that in the show notes.
And I have one, one last question.
Okay, I'm ready.
As a business owner, what issomething that you thought was true
when you started that you nolonger believe is true?
Every time I ask, really?
This is really hard for me.
Really hard for me.
The amount of hours that youwork is not directly related to the

(55:02):
results you get.
Like, I really believedgrowing up that like, you show up
at work on time and you, youknow, you stay late and you, you
know, blah, blah, blah, andthen you're going to get the promotions
and the recognition.
And I found that that was nottrue in the working world.
And then as a private practiceowner, sometimes something happens

(55:23):
and I get an email and it'slike, oh, I heard you speak five
years ago and I want you tocome speak and I want to give you
$10,000.
And I'm like, what?
But I didn't do anything toearn that.
You know what I mean?
I didn't invest like 20 hoursto emailing strangers on LinkedIn.
Like, you know, it's like,it's so much more, it's so much bigger

(55:44):
than that.
Like doing a good job, whereyou go being kind to people.
Yes.
Doing, you know, some thingsfor free.
There's just so many inputsthat, that lead to outputs and it's
not just like time spentequals success.
So true.
I co sign that for sure.

(56:04):
Well, thank you so much,Jessica, for sharing your story,
sharing your thoughts, opinions.
You guys have to watch the video.
On this because all day.
Yeah, I think we could too.
I would love for you guys, Ineed y' all to watch the video because
Jessica, she spicy.
You have a very expressive face.
I have been told that before.
I. I mean, you're with.

(56:24):
You're with your people.
Oh.
Well, thank you so much forbeing here and we can't wait to get
this out to the world.
Thanks, Nikita.
Thanks for everything you do.
Yeah.
That's a wrap for this episodeof Business with chronic Illness.

(56:46):
If you would like to start andgrow an online coaching business
with me, head to the shownotes to click a link to book a sales
call and learn how to makemoney with chronic illness.
You can also check out ourwebsite at www.CraftedToThrive.com
for this episode's show notesand join our email list to get exclusive
content where I coach you onhow to chronically grow a profitable

(57:07):
business while living withchronic illness.
Until next time, remember,yes, you are crafted to thrive.