In Conversation with Eli Lawliet, Ph.D. The Gender Doula

Eli Lawliet, Ph.D., (he/him) is the dreamer and weaver of The Gender Doula. In addition to a decade of experience researching trans healthcare, law, policy, and history, he has formal training as a full spectrum doula, breathwork facilitator, and tarot reader, as well as many years of surviving the world of poverty wages and retail work. The broad scope of his experience directly informs the equally broad spectrum of his work as The Gender Doula. Eli has been seeing clients since January of 2020 and has worked with hundreds of trans folks nationally and internationally in sessions, classes, and workshops. Though he was born in Oklahoma and raised in Missouri, Eli currently lives in Los Angeles (Gabrieliño-Tongva, Chumash, & Kizh land) with his partner, three cats, a dog, and four snakes. 

Website: https://www.thegenderdoula.com/ 

TikTok, IG, FB: @TheGenderDoula 

All links:  https://linktr.ee/TheGenderDoula 

Instagram: GenderStories
Hosted by Alex Iantaffi
Music by Maxwell von Raven
Gender Stories logo by Lior Effinger-Weintraub

Episode Transcript

Alex Iantaffi (00:34):
Hello and welcome to another episode of gender
stories. I know I always saythat I'm excited, but I What can
I tell you? I have the bestguest for this podcast, and so
today, I'm super excited to bewelcoming Eli Lawliet at PhD,
who is the dreamer and Weaver ofthe gender doula, in addition to
a decade of experienceresearching trans healthcare

(00:56):
law, policy and history, Eli isformal training as a full
spectrum doula, breath workfacilitator and tarot reader, as
well as many years of survivingthe world of poverty, wages and
retail work. The broad scope ofEli's experience directly
informs the equally broadspectrum of his work as a
general doula. He has beenseeing clients since January of

(01:18):
2020, and has worked withhundreds of trans folks
nationally and internationallyin sessions, classes and
workshops. Though he was born inOklahoma and raised in Missouri,
Eli currently lives onGabrielino, Tongva, Chumash and
kichland, currently known as LosAngeles, with his partner, three
cats, a dog and four snakes. I'mso excited to welcome you, Eli,

(01:42):
because I love your work. Sowelcome to Gender stories. Thank
you. I'm so excited to be here.
Yes, and apologies to you andthe listeners. I feel like my
voice is a little over the mapat the moment. So this is what
you get, dear listeners orwatchers, if you're watching on
YouTube and and I hope you canforgive me, this is what body
minds do. They do their thing,and we just roll with it. So

(02:05):
there's so many different thingsthat I want to talk with you
about, but why don't we juststart from what is a gender
doula for people who have nevercome across that term before?

Eli Lawliet (02:19):
Yeah, so I like to describe gender doula work, or
at least the work that I do as agender doula, as full spectrum
support for people who arequestioning, exploring or
transitioning their gender. Andthen I also provide support for
family members, allies, partnersand anyone really, and what that
support looks like is reallytailored to the specific

(02:42):
individual. That's why I sayfull spectrum, because one
person might need a lot of helpwith understanding, like, how to
even start questioning orexploring their gender, where to
go from the questions of like,am I trans, or like, Am I this
label? How do you move forward?
From that, how do you know? Oranother person might need a lot
of support around startinghormones or seeking a surgeon,

(03:04):
and someone else might need helplike finding a new wardrobe and
knowing how to buy pants in atype of sizing they've never
experienced before. Yes, many ofus are familiar with that
painful journey so.So really,the type of support I provide is
very, very dependent on theneeds of the person that I'm

(03:24):
speaking to, which is also why Ichose to call myself a doula, in
part because doulas function ina sort of like medical adjacent
capacity, ofte n in the roomwith doctors and as a part of
the medical experience, but arenot actually medical
professionals. And so you have alot of freedom and flexibility

(03:45):
to function in ways that medicalprofessionals couldn't but also
you have a lot of, like, a largescope of different types of
support that you can provide andways that you can show up for
people,

Alex Iantaffi (04:01):
Absolutely. And actually, that was one of the
questions I was going to ask forpeople who are listening and are
thinking, Oh, I always thoughtthere was, like, therapists or
counselors that supported kindof gender transition, like, How
is your work different, right?
And you've already said a littlebit how you have a freedom that,
of course, like a licensedtherapist, doesn't? You know, I
cannot go and shop with myclients, for example, and I

(04:23):
don't know if that's somethingyou do or could offer, if
somebody was local or like, howdo you feel that what you offer
kind of differs from what maybeother healthcare providers can
offer.

Eli Lawliet (04:36):
Yeah, so in terms of a therapist, I do think that
there's many ways that thesupport that I offer often looks
like therapy. So like for manyof my clients, we're meeting for
a set amount of time on aregular basis, right? Which is a
rhythm that many of us associatewith therapy, you know, and
we're spending a lot of thattime talking often, right? So
again, a rhythm many of usassociate with therapy. And so

(04:59):
the way that I like to sort ofdraw this distinction, or the
way that has made the most senseto me, is that I'm not here to
offer modalities, right? Interms of, like, mental health
modalities. So we're not goingto be doing cognitive behavioral
therapy or EMDR, you know, we'renot going to be doing these
things in the session. If youcome to me with a problem, I can
hold space for that problem. Ican also give you practical

(05:21):
advice and and I think adviceis, like, a big part of it,
right? But like, if a clientcomes to me and they're like,
I'm having a really hard time,for example, getting started
with my legal name changebecause I'm just overwhelmed and
I'm stressed out, and this istoo much for me. I'm not going
to come at that from atherapeutic direction of, how do
we necessarily, like, addressthe anxiety and the overwhelm.

(05:44):
I'm going to come at it morefrom like, okay, how can I
support you here? Like, would itbe helpful if I made you a step
by step list that you canfollow? Would it be helpful if I
talk to you through yourschedule, and we figured out
exactly when you can do eachstep, obviously, with a lot of
gentleness and grace for if youcan't actually do it on that
day, right? Would it be helpfulif I you know this, this, this,

(06:05):
right? So we're going to come atit from a more, I guess, like a
more practical approach, andless of like a therapeutic
approach. Of course, if aclient, if I feel like they
would benefit from therapy, andthat's something they're open
to, I can also help them find atherapist who's affirming,
right? But it's very helpfulthat I do not have the same
constraints that a therapist hason their practice,

Alex Iantaffi (06:27):
Absolutely. And I think that also, I love that you
talk about being a full spectrumdoula, right? Because gender
touches like, on every aspect ofour lives. So I think we were
saying that earlier, you know,and like, really, there is no
aspect of our lives that I thinkis not touched by gender. And so
do you find that that's true inyour work, right? That people

(06:48):
really come for, not just maybewhat folks might think about
transition, traditionally,right? Name change, you know,
hormones, surgicalinterventions, if that's what
people want, or even clothing oraccessories or things like that.
Like, it's a really much kind ofbroader spectrum, and I'm
assuming also changes across thelifetime, right? Like, I've been

(07:11):
out as trans for, I think it's16 years now, and I'm still kind
of like, Oh, what am I wearing?
And also, like, our bodieschange as we age, you know, and
and our needs change. And soyes, like, have you had that
experience where clients reallycome for things that are really
much beyond what we think aboutwhen we think about transition?

Eli Lawliet (07:33):
Absolutely, I have a very common experience with
clients being like, I know thisisn't really about gender, but
and then they'll say, you know,whatever it is, which I agree
with you, everything is at somein some way about gender, right?
But it'll be like somethingabout their job or their
profession, or, you know, I'vehad a lot of clients over the
years sort of organically shiftinto, like, spiritual support

(07:57):
instead of gender support,which, obviously there's a lot
of crossover there, but that's athing that has happened. And you
know, to that end, sometimesthose things are very woven
together, right? Like, we'll bedoing gender support, but I'm
pulling tarot cards, right? Andso that can happen. I have
clients who see me for bothtarot and gender doula,

(08:17):
sometimes separately, sometimestogether. I have clients who,
you know, I've gone through awhole journey with them over
years of talking from, like,very baby trans, you know, like,
Do I even want to do this to?
Like, now they're, like, fullylaunching into their lives, and
I'm supporting them in totallynew ways, right? So absolutely,
it definitely shifts and changesover and then I also, I will

(08:39):
say, I have a lot of clients whocome to me who maybe
transitioned 15-20 years ago,and now need to resolve the
trauma of what it was like totransition 15-20 years ago.

Alex Iantaffi (08:52):
Oh, absolutely. I mean, even 10 years ago, I Yes.
I mean, I've started working asa therapist when it was still
gender identity disorder, andthat's what I had to be
diagnosed with to be able toaccess my own kind of, this
transition services I wanted,and what I had to diagnose
clients with for them, you know.
And I often talked about, youknow, the you're not disordered.

(09:14):
This is just the portal that wehave to walk through in the
current system, right tonegotiate access and support for
you to kind of live your lifefully. And so that makes a lot
of sense to me, that folks willjust want to, you know, really
revisit kind of what, you know,and in a way, the diagnosis was

(09:34):
maybe the most benign part ofthat process. You know, I also
know a lot of horrific storiesaround I mean, you're gender
judged by other people, not justprofessionals, right and
expectations of that people outof gender, and expectation that
people out of our sexuality. Imean, even just 15 years ago,
somebody was questioning me atthe Research Conference. Well,

(09:56):
if trans men really enjoyhaving, you know, penetrative
sex, if they're frontal, arethey really trans, you know? And
I was like, yes, like, you know,especially as, like, a trans,
queer, masculine person, I waslike, 100% and also this
conversation feels so unsaferight now to me, on a personal
level, as well as on a you know,professional level, even though

(10:20):
I just presented on like thereare many types of sexual
identities that people have frommy research, right? But it's
just there's so much trauma inthe field that people have
experienced, and that is.
Something that often we don'ttalk about how some of the older
trans folks have been reallytraumatized, how some of the
responses sometimes that comethrough are really part of that

(10:43):
trauma. And yeah, yeah, I'mreally curious about what
thoughts you're having as we'retalking about this. I know for
me, I'm like, oh my god, thefloodgates are opening
emotionally from all thememories my own and my clients.

Eli Lawliet (10:55):
But yes, yes, yeah.
Well, I mean, I my 10 years on Tis going to be next March, so
I'm like nine and a half yearson tea, and I spent my whole 20s
in this sort of, like, horriblenightmare soup of gender
exploration that was just like,real rough. I mean, real rough,
and that's part of why I do whatI do now, right? But it was very

(11:18):
flummoxing for me to tease apartsex, sexuality and gender,
because I couldn't reallyunderstand why I felt gay. But I
had always been sort ofperceived as a perceived myself
as, like a straight girl,because I was only ever
attracted to men. And so thatwas actually a really confusing

(11:42):
thing for me. And like, my 20s,like, Okay, I like, identified
as bi for a while, but I'veliterally never been attracted
to a woman. And so I was like,Okay, I'm only identifying as
this because part I know I feelqueer, but I couldn't figure
out, like, why I felt queer. Andthen, you know, at some point it

(12:02):
clicked for me, and I was able,and then I had to undo so many
layers of like, I can't possiblycall myself trans, like I'm just
traumatized. I just wish I wascool. I just am delusional, like
all the many things, I mean, youname it. I had the imposter
syndrome, you know, like, it wasreally hard, so, yeah, like,

(12:24):
that sort of gender explorationduring that time period was
really, really rough. It was,yeah, and I mean, things are
rough now too, and in acompletely different way. But
it's interesting to hold thechallenges of folks who are
transitioning now in the contextof the backlash that we're

(12:45):
experiencing, and then folks whoare transitioning, you know,
10-15, 20-25, years ago, in thecontext of all the things that
are relevant. I mean, I jokeabout how every cohort of trans
people is like, every two years.
It's like every two years, it'sa completely different
experience to transition, youknow. And so, like, as a person

(13:06):
who's really studied a lot oftrans history and who's lived a
lot of trans history, I havelike, a pretty broad perspective
of, like, what all thosedifferent cohorts sort of are
like at least in broad strokes,and that's very helpful for the
different folks who come to seeme.

Alex Iantaffi (13:22):
Absolutely I feel like this could be its own
conversation, like all thehistorical trauma and bullshit
that trans folks have had to gothrough because of, you know,
ubiquitous cisgenderism, andalso because of just how the
system was set up, right? Andbecause of how the system was
set up, it's really hard for alot of us to, like, figure

(13:44):
ourselves out. I even remembergrowing up going, I feel like, I
mean, drag, but it didn't makesense, right? Because I was
presenting feminine, and I waslike, Well, I must, well,
perform femininity if that'swhat's expected, and I always
felt not very good at it, andlike I was in drag, which now
makes a lot of sense, right? Andbe much more like my community,
where really gay men more thanlesbians. Well, I guess I'm

(14:06):
bisexual, but just attracted tomasculine folks regardless of
their gender identity. And itwas just it was hard because the
awareness many role models, orpossibility models. I like that
term better. But even with allthe possibility models now, the
increased visibility is its ownchallenge. Some I'm with you, I
feel like I love that every twoyears, right? It's kind of

(14:29):
almost like its own cohort ofchallenges for trans people, and
it is different for andgenerationally, it can be very
different. And also, if peoplecome out now in their 60s
compared to coming out in your60s, like 20 years ago, or come
out and when they're 15 nowcompared to 20 years ago, right?
It's so complex.

(14:51):
And I think that complexityreally highlights why it's
important to have also, like,maybe a team approach. I don't
know if you've also ever, likeyou talked about being a doula.
In a way, it's a really greatway to be in part of this kind
of medical care team, and alsofor healthcare providers to
understand what your role is,I'm assuming. And are you

(15:11):
finding that you arecollaborating with other
healthcare professionals. Whenyou are working with clients
like or are you finding thehealthcare professionals maybe
are not as invested orinterested in connecting with
you, because it is seen as amore known mainstream
alternative. I don't know whatadjective we want to use here.

(15:32):
Kind of approach to gendertransition.

Eli Lawliet (15:36):
Yeah, that's a good question. I haven't done much
collaboration with healthcareprofessionals. I've done some
collaboration, quite a lot morecollaboration with therapists. I
think that therapists really seeit and really get it. And
there's several therapists whowere like, quite close and
professionally speaking, andtalk quite a lot and share
resources. And, you know,hopefully we'll be able to work

(15:59):
together on doing like CEs andthings like that to help
improve, which I do also traintherapists. And I think, yes,
ideally I would also love totrain healthcare professionals,
but the sort of world oftraining healthcare
professionals is specific.
There's a lot of rules, there'sa lot of gatekeeping, there's a
lot of like, specific language.

(16:22):
And I think that maybe somedayI'll have the resources, and
somebody on the other side ofthe equation will also be as
interested as I am in that andwant to collaborate in a
meaningful way. But so far thathasn't materialized.

Alex Iantaffi (16:35):
Yeah, that's real. I feel like medical
doctors like to talk to othermedical doctors and nurses, or
nurses and all that, and it'smuch harder, I think, to get
into the medical world and andeven if you do, it's just like,
it's a very different approachto to what we're talking about
that I'm really glad that yourclients have you on their side

(16:58):
as a trans you know, reallyexplore all these different
aspects of their genderjourneys. And I use plural
gender journeys on purpose. Ifeel like I've been on many
gender journeys in my 50 plusyears of life and and on that, I
kind of want to go back tosomething you said about some of
the clients really blur thoseboundaries between like, are

(17:20):
they coming to you for Tarot?
Are they coming to you forgender doula services? Both?
Because I think spirituality, Idon't know it's been such a part
of my journey. I know it's beena big part of the journey for a
lot of other trans andnon-binary and or gender
expensive folks I've workedwith. And so how are you finding
kind of that integratingspirituality in people's kind of

(17:40):
gender, gender journey, or eventransness as a spiritual
experience in a self and in away, a lot of us experience our
gender identity as a almost likea spiritual identity, for one of
a better word, at least, I knowI do, but

Eli Lawliet (17:57):
yeah, I do as well.
You know, I was raised byconservative Christian family in
the middle of the country, and Iwas quite young when I realized
that that did not work for me. Iwas like, and I sort of floated
around in the gray zone for manyyears. And then in my 20s, I was
like, I'm an atheist. And I waslike, really hardcore about

(18:17):
that. And then when I was in myPhD program, many factors
culminated my I had a veryintense chronic illness crisis.
And also grad school is justhell on earth, and like, as you
know. And I was like, I need aspiritual something, like, I
need something, you know. And soI thought about it, and I was

(18:40):
like, okay, like, I can't, likeorganized religion is not for
me. I was looking into some ofthe like, sort of pagan options.
And I was like, first of all,most of these feel like
organized religion. A lot ofthem are white supremacist, and
a lot of them are really, like,CIS sexist. And I was like, I
can't do that. So that all gotchecked to the side. And I was
like, All right, what can and Ididn't want to do cultural

(19:02):
appropriation of anybody else'sreligion or or culture or
spirituality. So I was like,What can I root into? Like, what
is there here for me? And theonly thing that felt solid
enough to root into wastransness and so really starting
at that point and ever since,I've been building a
spirituality based on and intransness as a spiritual

(19:25):
experience, but also as a lensthat opens you up to What I have
called sacred knowledge that isonly available through this
process and this gauntlet ofwalking in the liminal space,
right? And being in thatexperience. And recently, my
partner coined a term because Iwas reading about imaginal

(19:51):
cells, yeah, which I'll explainfor anybody who isn't aware,
imaginal cells are like cellsthat exist in caterpillars, that
hold all of the DNA informationfor how to turn into a
butterfly. But when acaterpillar is in Caterpillar
mode, those cells are actuallyseen as invaders and are

(20:12):
attacked by the immune system.
However, they're resilient, anda certain number of them
survive. And when thecaterpillar goes into its
chrysalis and it turns intosoup, those cells are the only
things that sort of retain theirfunction, and they tell the soup
how to turn into a butterfly.
And then that's how caterpillarsbecome butterfly.

(20:33):
Right? And so reading throughthis, I was like, you know, my
brain is just like, popping up.
And I was like, Oh, my God. Andso I went to my partner, and I
was like, trans people are theimaginal cells of humanity. Like
this lines up so beautifully.
And he was like, oh, it's like,trans imaginality. And I was
like, that's the name of it.
That's the name of myspirituality is trans
imaginality, you know. So it'sthat very sort of like animistic

(20:56):
orientation toward the world,and I use a lot of like animal
and natural teachers as guidesfor understanding how I relate
to the world and how transnessis sort of this force that goes
through all of nature and all ofEarth, you know, sorry, now I
feel like I've gone completelyon a tangent.

Alex Iantaffi (21:21):
But no, this is a great tangent. This is a great
tangent. Keep going. Eli, noproblem with this tangent. [both
laugh]

Eli Lawliet (21:30):
Yeah. So I just feel like in terms of how
spirituality shows up in mysessions with clients, right? I
never want to, I never wantsomeone to feel like they have
to believe what I believe. Andactually, in fact, because of my
allergy to organized religion,it's very important to me that

(21:51):
my spirituality is actually acompletely solitary and
Individual Endeavor, right? Likethere's much crossover with
other people, because animism isinherently like we are all of
this earth. We can all observethis earth, right? So that's
available to everyone at alltimes, but my very specific

(22:11):
practices are my own, you know,and I don't push them on anyone
and and I wouldn't even tellanyone what they all are,
because it's personal, you know.
So I do have clients that cometo me and they're, you know,
maybe more in a place where theyeither don't really vibe with
spirituality, or maybe it's justnot a thing that resonates for
them. And I'm not going to bringit into those spaces, you know,

(22:33):
but many people at this pointare starting to know that this
is who I am, and so a lot ofpeople seek me out specifically
because they want thatinterweaving.And so in that way,
I will weave spirituality in.
And like I mentioned before, forsome of my clients, that's
become the primary type ofsupport that they're craving.

Alex Iantaffi (22:57):
This makes so much sense to me, because I feel
now my brain is going in 500different tangents. That's okay.
We'll figure it out. It makes somuch sense to me because, you
know, often there is aspiritual, existential aspect
when we go on those genderjourneys. And also, like pretty
much most cultures across theglobe, including the culture

(23:19):
where I come from, have like asacred role for what we would
call from a through an Anglocurrent lens, trans, non binary
gender, expensive folks. So if Ithink about, you know, the
southern Mediterranean in Italy,and the femminielli, you know,
where the keeper of thetradition of the Black Madonna,
in the specific Black Madonna,Madonna di Montevergine. It was

(23:41):
like on the mound where peoplethink there was a temple to
Cybele who was the Phrygiangoddess who had the priest
called the Galli. You know,where, what we would probably
call trans feminine people rightnow, but not exclusively, right,
almost everywhere in the globe,as those ideas of like trans,

(24:02):
expansive, gender expansive, nonbinary folks as connected to the
divine in some way. And to me,makes sense because of that
liminality. You know, we knowwitches are edge walkers. You
know, healers are edge walkers,and so, of course, to me, makes
so much sense that a lot of uswho are trans also feel this,
like hunger for spiritualconnection, right? Because we we

(24:27):
feel it in our DNA, we feel itin our ancestry. We feel it in
kind of the web of connection.
And and, yeah, it's so difficultbecause so much of even whatever
pagan religions that might havesurvived beyond some indigenous
traditions are so heavilyfiltered through Christianity. I
even like in paganism, sometimesI'm like, That is like kind of

(24:51):
Protestantism light, and there'ssome like values that kind of
questionable, right? Cuz I'm,like, we should think about this
a little bit more. I don't knowif I'm making any sense, but I
was just so excited about thisbecause I'm, I think that is
something that a lot of peopleare yearning for, that what I

(25:11):
would call, like, queer spirit,you know, and and yet it's
really hard to figure out,especially if people want to
practice together, right?
Because also, how do we practicetogether when we might come from
many eclectic differenttraditions and different
communities, because we don'thave a place in our community of

(25:33):
origin anymore. We're displaced,sometimes through colonialism,
through all the ways in whichwe've been displaced, yeah, and
it's and so for me, when I thinkabout that, there's also an
aspect of grief, and I know thatworked with clients, especially
indigenous clients, on thegrieving part of like, what

(25:54):
would my life have looked like,you know, in a whole, untouched
by colonialism, right?
Community? And I don't know ifyou've come across that either
in your own journey or withclients, but yeah,

Eli Lawliet (26:07):
absolutely. I mean, I think that I'm still, I'm
still untangling my own griefrelated to colonization, because
it's very complicated. On mydad's side is, like, very much
Irish, and then my mom's side issort of the classic white person
blend of European, but like,with a lot of Irish and British

(26:29):
and other colonizers, right? Andso like, like thinking through,
or, like, working with ancestorsin terms of, like, Okay, what
does it mean to hold blood oflike, colonizer and colonized,
you know, like, I have recentancestors who had to flee their
home because of colonization andbecause of, you know, genocide,

(26:51):
right through the famine. Andthen I also have recent
ancestors who came to this landand stole land from Native
people through variousgovernment programs, right?
Yeah, and it's like that's acomplicated thing to hold on to,
and I think that this is where,because I'm a white person, and
I think that all white peopleneed to do very, very deep

(27:15):
ancestor work, and need toreally, like, sit with these
things and allow themselves tobe in the pain and the
discomfort and the grief of it,because how are we? I truly
believe that it's white people'sresponsibility to deal with all
the problems that our ancestorshave caused and to dismantle

(27:36):
white supremacy and whiteness asa whole, you know, enterprise
and so how are we going to dothat work if we're not first,
you know, tending to that griefand that pain in our ancestors
and their the violence that theywrought upon So many different
lands and so many differenthumans and so many different

(27:57):
animals, right? Like, it's justthe scope of it is so
overwhelming that I thinksometimes you need an entry
point. And to me, the entrypoint is sort of like the
ancestral right, and also it'svery it's been very helpful for
me to also relate to myTranscenders and to use that as
another point of like ancestralconnection, I lead a transistor

(28:22):
sort of class, or it started asa workshop, became a class with
another practitioner named ZellAmanzi, who's incredible. And we
offered that last May, and we'llprobably offer it again next
year, called accessing ancestralwisdom, and that's been like
such a generative space,because, first of all, having a
collaborator in that space wherewe can talk about our ancestral

(28:47):
and ancestral practices, andthey're so different, but
there's so much crossover, andthen bringing that to trans
people and being like, Look, youdon't have to feel so alone. And
like, you can build communitywith your Transcenders. And if
humans are really hard for you,guess what? You have
Transcenders who are animals,who are plants, who are, you
know, different parts of theland, you know, like this is all

(29:10):
available to you, and we canteach you how to find your way
in. And like, what works foryou, right? And so just
honestly, like, first of all,having my own practice of trans
imaginality and transistor work,and then bringing that to a
teaching space where I can belike, Okay, this is what I
figured out. And I'm joined bythis incredible human who has so
much wisdom to offer. And youknow, we can, like, Hold cohorts

(29:31):
through this. Oh, my God. Likenothing has been more healing to
that part of me than thatprocess.

Alex Iantaffi (29:39):
Absolutely, I'm kind of actually, like tearing
up a little bit as you'retalking about this, because I am
seeing kind of the emergence of,like, people really connected to
transcends. I remember when myfriend Dr Pavini Moray started
talking about gender, blended,gender, blessed ancestors and

(30:00):
Transcenders, there were notthat many people talking about
those things, especially here inthe US and amongst white people.
And so it's really just sobeautiful to see kind of this
emergence of ancestral work, andI think it really speaks to our
desire for collectiveliberation, right. Often say
that, you know, to dismantlewhite supremacy, we've gotta let

(30:23):
go of whiteness, and we gottaknow who we are, and I feel very
lucky, you know, to havebelonging, to know what it feels
like to be on land I belong to,to be brought up and. Practices,
because I really see thedisconnect and the damage of
being disconnected fromlanguage, being disconnected
from culture, have been it'sbeen really interesting to get

(30:44):
to know more trans ItalianAmericans and to just see the
differences, you know, wherethere is that yearning, but also
the white supremacy, like thatillness, I really think of white
supremacy as a sickness, hastaken such deep roots that it's
even hard to connect, even in adifferent way. And it's just,

(31:08):
it's interesting, I think, forme, in the liminal space, right?
Of like having been brought upin this way, but now being here
and feeling like, what does itmean to help people connect with
their ancestry, not in acommodifying way, not in a
spiritual bypassing way, but inauthentic way where there can be

(31:28):
that grieving, that can be thenreconnecting, because it's Just
so counter cultural to whitesupremacy, also to capitalism.
You know, when you were talkingabout animism, you know, being
brought up very much. I feellike Sicilian culture is very
much anonymous culture and like,all the time, like even in just
small day to day things, right?
Just the way we treat things inin air quotes, right? Like, just

(31:53):
the the care of like clothes andhome and homes having a name,
and the tending of things again,like, it's just very different,
a very different feel and and Ithink there is so much hunger in
the community, and so so excitedwhen I saw that class, and I was
like, one day I'll have somespaciousness to add something

(32:15):
else and take one of yourclasses, because I'm very
excited about all of that. Butwhat I I'm curious about kind
of, if you're finding also thatduring this time of yet another
kind of anti trans wave, this isalso helping people build some,
you know, source of nourishmentor a resourcing, or, you know,

(32:37):
not maybe feeling so overwhelmedor alone. I know for me, when I
feel like this is so heavy, I'mlike, that connection to
ancestors and to the largerecosystem reminds me this is not
the first time. This is, youknow, that we're feeling this.
There's so much wisdom in how weresist and transform No, and I

(32:57):
think that trans folks do. It'snot an accident. They often,
during the global rise offascism, in lots of different
ways, trans folks are targeted.
That's happened before. It'shappening now, right? I'm saying
a lot of words, but I think youknow what I'm trying to get to
so you find in your work as wellthat people are finding this as

(33:18):
a source of like, joy,resilience, comfort,
nourishment. I don't knowwhatever words we might want to
use, absolutely, yeah.

Eli Lawliet (33:27):
I made my my 2024, sort of theme was resourcing,
yes, yeah. And which I actuallythere's an astrologer named
Diana Rose, who I adore. All oftheir work is incredible.
Everybody should check them out.
But Diana did a class called ByJove which is a class all about

(33:47):
Jupiter. And I took that class.
I do a deep rest every January.
And so during my deep rest of2023, I was taking that class,
and in that class, she talksabout resourcing, and in this
way, that was sotransformational to me, because
I was like, oh, like, I've beenworking with this concept, but I
didn't put it into that frame,you know. And so that was, like,

(34:11):
really fundamental to me,thinking about how to move into
2024 because, like you said, aswe're seeing this rise of global
fascism, as we're seeing thismassive backlash, you know, I
have a lot of knowledge abouttrans history. A lot of my PhD
was trans history, and I'vereally studied so many different

(34:33):
ways that these backlashes havecome up. And so I have felt like
that has been a protective, likeinsulator around me as a person
who, I think in many ways musthold hope no matter what, for my
community, right? And so havingthe installation of right? But
my ancestors have been throughthis, you know, and like, seeing

(34:55):
how they have managed thesedifferent waves and and knowing
that backlashes are cyclical andthat this is just one of, like,
many cycles of this, right? Allof that has been so helpful to
me. And then taking sort ofthese concepts of like,
resourcing and transistors andhistory and all that, and trying
to, like, find ways to, like,give it back to the community,

(35:17):
you know, like I did a wholeclass called Resource your trans
self, and that was very, youknow, steeped in resourcing. But
honestly, everything that I dois because there's so many
different ways to resourceyourself, and I think that
moving in. See the challenges ofthis year, knowing, hey, it's an
election year, knowing thingshave been getting harder and

(35:38):
harder for a while, and I don'tknow if we've hit the crest of
it yet, you know, I'm not sure.
And so it really brings up thisneed that, like, Hey, we've
gotta move differently, youknow. And the little baby trans
folks like, they need people tobe like, alright, baby, I got
you, like, here's how you'regoing to bolster yourself, you
know. And the people who cameout, like, in 2020, which is a

(36:00):
lot of people who sort of cameout in a completely different
concept context, and then got,like, tidal waves with all the
hatred, you know, who arefloundering now, a lot of them,
right? It's like, okay, waitdeep breaths. We're going to be
okay, but we're going to have tolearn how to move differently.
We can't take for granted thatwe're safe. We can't take for

(36:21):
granted that we have access tomedical care, you know, we can't
take for granted that we're notgoing to need to DIY our
hormones, you know, like, wecan't take these things for
granted anymore. So how do weresource ourselves? How do we
root ourselves? How do we findways to like, even if it's just
a teeny little bit? One thingthat I use a lot in my classes
is, does it make it even 1%better? Does it make it 2%

(36:44):
better, right? Like we'relooking to like, add together
these little things and suchthat overall, in a holistic way,
we're more resourced and morecapable of meeting the moment,
right? And so, I mean, I'm kindof also going off in a million
directions, but I feel like thisis sort of the most important
thing to me, and the thing thatundergirds everything that I'm

(37:06):
offering, actually, certainly inthis year, but also in general,
is just like, how do we resourceourselves better? Because I want
as many people as possible tosurvive this, you know, I've
lost people. I'm sure you'velost people. Yeah, I don't want
to lose more. And I have seenthe profound difference that
resourcing has made in my life,but also in clients. You know,

(37:29):
I've had clients who are like,You're nuts. This is so
ridiculous. Like, I do notbelieve this is going to make a
difference. And then six monthslater, they're like in a
completely different place. Youknow,

Alex Iantaffi (37:41):
so, so true. I resonate with so much of why you
shared. And I think for me, whatthat really highlights also it's
like when we connect with theecosystem, with ancestors. I
think it also really highlightshow important relationality is
right? Because a lot of peoplecame out in 2020 because almost
there was this isolation andthis insulation right from the

(38:03):
pervasive cisgenderism, genderedexpectation, all of a sudden
people could maybe experiment alittle bit more, but also they
have a lot of time to be withtheir thoughts and their desires
and inner worlds, right? Andthen this reality of the you
know, if we look at those graphswhere the anti trans
legislation, like, shoots up in2021, and up to the present

(38:25):
moment, right, in this currentcycle of history, it's, it's
been a rough ride for a lot ofpeople came out then because
also, like, the insulationallowed them maybe to, like, you
know, being in the soup, youknow, of that transimaginality,
but then also not havingconnection, not having
community, necessarily, right?
And I don't know for you, butfor me, community is such an

(38:49):
important piece of it, right?
And I know that sometimes peopleare like, but I'm more
comfortable being communitywith, like, trees and green
Bloods and, you know, or nonhuman animals rather than
humans. And I'm like, Yes, andwe also need the humans. And at
the moment, I'm really on thistrain of, I feel like the

(39:09):
queerest thing we can do isactually help people, especially
white people, understandrelationality and practice
relationality, right? Because Ifeel like we have just part of
the illness of white supremacy,is that taking away of kinship
that really felt embodied senseof kinship relationality. And I
think for me, most of mynourishment is really through

(39:32):
relationship, not just withhumans like but relationship
with ancestors, right,relationship with spirit,
relationship with the beautifultrees right outside my window.
You know that I feel sofortunate and privileged to like
steward, you know? And so I'mwondering if you're coming
across that push and pullsometimes with folks too,

(39:55):
especially because as transfolks, we have been traumatized
by people. So it makes sensethat we don't want to be with
other people. But I wonder ifyou find that resistance
sometimes to people like mayberesistance, not the it's not a
good word I want to use, butlike hesitance, right? Oh, I
don't know about being withother trans folks or being in
community. Does that make sense?

Eli Lawliet (40:15):
Definitely. I mean, I think that you know, as you've
as you've mentioned, ourcommunity is comprised of people
who are holding a lot of traumain their bodies, and most of us
have ruptured family systems,right? Because so many of us
lose some or all of our familywhen we come out. Don't, you
know. And then, even for thoseof us who don't lose our family,

(40:37):
it's not always a good model. Sothere's like, 1000 different
ways that we are sort of like,you know, for lack of a better
term, fucked when it comes torelationships. Yes, you know,
how are we supposed to buildrelationships that are
sustainable and that will lastand that are deep when we don't
know how to be in relationshipin ways that are healthy and
that can withstand conflict andcan withstand, you know, all the

(41:01):
things that are happening rightnow and the stress and the
pressure, right so you have thissort of perfect storm where we
have this consistent narrativeof like, found family and queer
relationships and queer kinship,and how beautiful that is, and
it can be, and there's so muchdysfunction, and it's so hard,

(41:25):
right, and so all of that isreal. And I'm really into this
idea of like weaving a basketbig enough to hold the the
fullness of a thing, right?
Right? And so I think about,like, weaving a basket big
enough to hold the complexityand the fullness of all of this
and be like, yeah, all of it istrue. You know, you're not
crazy. If you feel like I can'tpossibly be in relationship with

(41:46):
queer and trans people, right?
You're not crazy. And also, wegot to figure it out, y'all
because we're all we have,right? And so when it comes to
that, I do think thatrelationships with non human and
more than human beings, can be areally good place to start

(42:06):
right. Like, I think that thatcan be a place where you can
heal, that can be a place whereyou can learn right. Like this
idea of learning how to be inrelationship, learning
reciprocity, learning how tofunction as part of a web,
right? Like that can definitelyhappen without another human.
And also, I think that it islike humans have evolved to be

(42:30):
in relationship with oneanother. And I think that there
are needs that our bodies andthat our spirits often have,
that remain unfulfilled if wehave no other human
relationships. But there's alsopracticalities, like you might
need somebody to drive you homefrom the hospital after surgery.
Yeah, you know. And so I thinkthat, of course, there is a

(42:51):
balance there, and I havenothing but empathy for people
who are like, I cannot be inrelationship with other humans,
right, especially in thiscommunity where we're all
holding so much trauma in ourbodies. And also, I think that
you can a slightly differentapproach. Would be okay. How do
I learn? How do I let my nonhuman and more than human

(43:13):
relationships become the spacewhere I heal right? Like maybe
you can develop a relationshipwith grandmother Hawthorne, who
both protects your heart andheals it simultaneously. You
know, like just these differentways that you can be in
relationship with the earth andwith whatever plants and
whatever animals are resonant toyou, but that that can also, you

(43:35):
can see this is okay, maybe Ineed to take a step back. And
also, at some point I will needto take that step forward again
when I'm ready, when I'mresourced, it's okay to need
time. But I do think it'simportant to have relationships,
at least on some level, withother humans when you can

Alex Iantaffi (43:53):
absolutely and that's why I was kind of
hesitating, like I was like, oh,resistance. That's not the right
word, because it's sopathologized, especially mental
health, right? It's likehesitancy feels better because
and it makes sense, and yet,like, we need to move into this
web of like, care andconnection, which is also not
easy, because, you know, tobeing you, to be in relationship

(44:16):
also means to risk hurting andbeing hurt to there will be
navigable raptures. You know,whenever I meet new clients, I'm
always like so we're going tohave a rapture or a misattube,
another release at some point.
How are we going to navigate?
Let that. Let's talk about, whatwould I notice? How would you be
able to communicate that or not,right? Because, let's face it,

(44:37):
nobody's ever going to becompletely attuned to another
human rapture is going tohappen. And then there is all
this noise right? From kind ofthis more Western white
supremacist model of mentalhealth. This is the right way of
doing relationship. This is thewrong way. And I'm like, it's so
much more complicated than that,right? These people over here

(44:57):
are like, irredeemable, youknow, because this is just so
they are like, narcissistsdinner quotes, right? I have a
lot of feelings about how thingsare framed in a way that's like,
irredeemable for some folks, I'mlike, That's not helpful. It's
all trauma in my books, but andwe need to heal, right? And I
think that's why I'm sopassionate about relationality,
because I think that's how weheal. It's also how we build

(45:20):
community in a different way,right? It's like, how do we move
away from this more carceralpolicing ways of relating to
each other, into more like truecommunity of. Need rather than
community of convenience. I lovethat differentiation. I've
learned from one of my belovedfriends, Susan Rapha, was like,

(45:41):
Is this a community of need or acommunity of convenience? And I
think a lot of us are used tocommunities of convenience,
where we can move in and out,and I think we actually need to
learn how to be in a communityof need more and more you know,
as those things change. And Ilove that you offered learning,
not just one on one, but in agroup setting, right? And like

(46:03):
you do classes, because I guessthat's also a way for people to
practice right, dipping theirtoes into being in relationship
with community. And that's kind

Eli Lawliet (46:13):
of it's funny that you mentioned that, because I
love teaching with thirdgeneration teacher, and I have
formal teacher training, right?
Like I'm a PhD, and I've taughtclasses at like, the university
level, and all of that sort ofinforms how I show up as a
teacher. And so I love it, andit really feeds me, and also, I
have been historically quiteterrified of allowing my classes

(46:38):
to exist outside of theclassroom, right, in a way
that's in relationship with oneanother. So I'll have, like,
here's the contact sheet if youwant to get in touch like you,
y'all can do that yourselves,you know, but I but people are
like, oh, I want a community. Iwant a community, and I'm like,
no, because I'm so scared ofthat, but it's been such a
consistent ask. And so when wedid accessing transester wisdom,

(47:00):
there was a really strong desirefor folks that wanted to stay in
touch. And Sal and I chose thatwe were going to do a group
chat, and we and it wasobviously like, you didn't have
to opt in, but you could opt in,and then you could be in that
space. And we had very specificboundaries for the group chat,
and it was fine. And I was like,Okay. And so now I have a class

(47:21):
of coming as steak medicine,which is going to be starting in
early September, and I've chosenfor the first time ever to have
like, a group chat for thatclass. But I am moving toward,
like I'm doing the researchprocess right now in terms of
platforms, but I'm moving towardcreating a actual community that
people will be once they'vetaken snake medicine, and there

(47:45):
will be, like an alumnicommunity. And it feels like a
really scary step to me, but Iagree with you. It's like we all
have to push at our growth edgesif we're going to start changing
the thing. And I've worked a lotaround how to be in community,
how to handle conflict andthings like that. And I think at
this point it's like, okay,like, maybe I can trust my own

(48:05):
self enough that I can create acontainer with adequate
boundaries, that things will be,at least we understand how we
move through conflict, you know,we understand how we handle
rupture, and so then hopefullythings will be relatively, you
know, cohesive, and that is areally scary and vulnerable

(48:27):
thing for me personally to do.
But I also think it's worth it.

Alex Iantaffi (48:34):
I think so too. I think it's beautiful because,
and you know, if there aren'tspaces, you know, where we can
practice the skills, right?
Because not everybody's going tohave, like, trans or queer or
spiritual community available tothem. And you know, as long as
we have this beautiful magic oftechnology, of the internet,
where we can connect, right?

(48:55):
That's where we get to practice.
How do we make agreements? Andthen how do we live by those
values and agreements,especially when it's hard right,
and we're activated, which thenbrings in this essential piece
of the somatic skills, right,that the need to know our false
sense of relative safety,knowing our nervous system,
knowing when we're activated andwhen we're going into flight,

(49:19):
flight, fight, freezer fun. Iwas like, wow, this is, like, my
everyday, like, bread andbutter, and I'm like, tripping
up on there, but I'm so excitedabout this. And so I'm wondering
also like, how do you bring thatinto your classes and your work,
that piece of like embodimentand nervous system, which can be

(49:41):
so challenging for many of ustrans folks, because many of us
have survived throughdissociating, which is also a
gift, and because sometimeswe've had to do that To survive,
sometimes we still have to dothat survive in certain
environments. And I definitely,as a trans, disabled person,
that's a very useful tool thatand we and it's part of our

(50:03):
human experience. And I alsoknow that I need to be here in
my body and present to connectand heal and and be the
integrated life I want to live.
And so I'm wondering how youbring that embodiment piece into
your work as well?

Eli Lawliet (50:20):
Yeah, in terms of classes and group settings, I
think that it's really helpfulto, well, there's, there's quite
a few tools that I use for thisone is sort of having, like a
grounding in moment, you know,so doing some sort and then also
giving a lot of space for peopleto do that differently, right?

(50:42):
Like, I'm going to close myeyes, I'm going to say some
words, if you want to use thistime to, like, move around the
room or do a little dance orstretch or whatever, like, love
that, you know, if you want tolay down, that's great, right?
But just like, giving peoplespace to like do what their body
needs to do, but also to likeground in and like, Okay, we're
coming into this continuetogether, right? Another one,

(51:05):
like, very simple, but givingpeople a break in the middle of
the class, right? Like, allowingfor that break where people are
like, okay, it's been this classis halfway over. Now I'm going
to get a chance to refill mywater and go to the bathroom and
look out the window andwhatever, right? That's very,
very important. And I think alsolike giving an agenda, like,

(51:29):
Hey, this is the stuff thatwe're going to do today has been
a really helpful piece, becausethen again, people know what
their bodies need to be preparedfor, and that's a really helpful
piece in terms of, like groupsettings, also having very clear
expectations of for behavior andhow things will be handled if
things go badly, or if there'ssome sort of rupture. Is is a

(51:53):
really helpful and important wayof settling people's nervous
systems. I also give a lot ofspace so like you do not if
we're on Zoom, which all of myclasses are, you don't have to
be on camera. You don't have to,you know, interact. You can
change your name and be, youknow, totally anonymous, right?
You can specify if you don'twant me to read something from

(52:13):
the chat, right? You cannot showup in person at all and just
watch the recording, right?
Like, there's 1000 differentways you can give people space
to manage their own experience,and that's also an important
piece, is like having the agencyto manage your own experience,
right? I think huge part,honestly, a huge part of
transition, right? Yes,

Alex Iantaffi (52:36):
absolutely. I was going to say that's essential to
transition, feeling that agency,absolutely, exactly,
it's the most important thing.
And then in one on one, I mean,the sky's the limit, because
when I'm working one on one withsomeone, I can really respond in
the moment, right? But one thingthat I really enjoy doing is
helping people get in touch withtheir bodies in ways that feel
accessible to them. And that's ahighly personalized process,

(52:59):
because trans people tend to bevery dissociated, and we tend to
hold a lot of trauma in ourbodies. And so, you know, we
start so, so, so, so, so slowly,you know, and I really try to
impress on people that weredoing the smallest possible
version, like, if it feelsalmost too easy to be worth
doing, that's where we'restarting, you know, like,

(53:21):
absolutely building from that,right? And so that might look
like, you know, differentsomatic exercises, different
breathing work, but ultimately,it's a process of starting to
build the bridge between yourbody and your sort of conscious
brain.
Yeah that's a relationship too,you know. And it's a

(53:41):
relationship that often we have,not the the space, the privilege
to, like, explore in the sameway assist folks, you know. And
it's a relationship that's alsonot encouraged by, like, white
supremacist, capitalist colonialculture, that it's like, oh, you
have a cold, take the spill soyou can get better faster and

(54:02):
get back to producing, right?
Just so that, like, now the CDCis like, Oh, your children have
lice. You don't have to sendthem home. That's okay, because
otherwise parents miss out onwork, right? And I'm just like,
What? What is happening to usall that we cannot like rest and
recover. You know, I go tosometimes I do group
consultations for organizations,and people are like, Oh, I have

(54:23):
covid, but I'm here. I'm like,so you can be here if you want
to, but I will take no offenseif you want to like rest and
please. You know, all the thingsyou said, please get the camera,
take, turn the camera off if youneed to lie down while we're
talking and listening, you know,to each other. But we live in
such a culture that's just hassuch expectation of us not at

(54:43):
being in deep relationship.
Because if we were in deeprelationship with our embodied
selves, I don't think we wouldbe so ready to, you know, to
basically live the lives that wekeep being pushed to live,
right, which requires some levelof dissociation for all of us, I

(55:06):
would say, in order to commodifyourselves in this in service to
capitalism, which, of course, tosome degree We all need to do
unless we're independentlywealthy, which most of us trans
folks are not. But you know,yeah, that's, that's a lot. Ah,
so talk about sling down. I'mgoing to take a breath. And I

(55:27):
know it's so nice when we can,just like, take a moment to feel
that spaciousness. I. Starteddoing that even before I do
speaking engagements, and reallynoticing the shift in the
quality of the engagement overthe past few years since, like
introducing, like a groundingpractice, which sometimes a

(55:47):
little like Alien in someenvironments, but it really
helps. So when I slow down. I'mjust feeling the richness of
this conversation and the beautyof this conversation, and I feel
like I could talk to you foranother four hours, but actually
I'm gonna be respectful of ourbody minds and not wear us down
just in one conversation. But Iam gonna ask you to just take a

(56:11):
moment, if you will, to just youjust mentioned that you have a
class starting in September. AndI wonder if you could just say a
little bit more about the class,just in case people who are
listening or watching are like,Well, that sounds I like, what
Eli's talking about. I want themedicine has got to offer. Tell

Eli Lawliet (56:29):
Yeah, so the class that I'm offering, I offer every
us more about this class.
fall. This is my third yearteaching it, and the class is
called Snake Medicine. It isopen to everyone. So it is
absolutely for trans folks, butit's also for everybody. And
this class is a class where weuse the snakes shed cycle as a

(56:52):
roadmap for moving throughpersonal transformation and also
all the hard parts of life,right? Grief, loss, change,
rage, joy, everything, right?
This class, we basically so letme back up a little bit. The way
that I have come to thismedicine is through my
relationship with my snakes. Itend to two snakes. My partner

(57:14):
also has two snakes. So there'sfour in the house. And my two
snakes, you know, we got,actually, all four of our snakes
in the sort of height of thepandemic in 2020, and it was
like a very, you know, it wasthat weird time where we were
all finding new ways to be inthe world. And one of our ways
was by having snakes. And so Ihad these little hatchling

(57:38):
snakes, and I was watching themgo through, you know, shed after
shed after shed, becausehatchlings shed quite a few
times, because they're growingright. And as this was going on,
I was also working on adissertation, and I was also
dealing with multiple chronicillnesses, and we were also
dealing with a pandemic, and Iwas watching them shed, and I
was watching myself, and I waslike, oh, there's a resonance

(58:01):
here, right? And I hadn'trealized that shedding was a
process that had sort of these,like discrete sections or like
phases, and when I started toput those things together, I
started to really see the theroadmap effect of it, like, Oh,
if I can orient toward thisexperience as a process, I can

(58:25):
know that I will not be in itforever. And I can also develop
a set of tools that when Irealized, like, oh,
energetically, I'm here, I knowwhat to do when I'm here, right?
Yeah. So at the time, I was in adoula mentorship, and I brought
it to my fellow doulas, and Iwas like, I think I've got

(58:46):
something here. And they wereall just like, this is
incredible. And I was like,Cool. I'm going to sit on this
for like, seven years, and thenI will teach it. But then it was
actually the next year, I thinkin 2021 no 20 was in 2022 so
it's in 2022 that I really hadthis strong message from my my
folks is what I call, like, myspiritual everybody. So my folks

(59:10):
were like, You need to teachsnake medicine this year, and I
was like, but this doesn't likeall my content is about gender
like this doesn't mean nobody'sgonna want this, you know? And
they were like, do it. And I waslike, alright, so I did, and I'm
so glad, because it's such arich like experience, and it's
just been such a beautiful thingto like deepen into that

(59:30):
material. Year after year, it'sbrought me so many beautiful
relationships, and now it's mythird year, and so it feels like
this is more than ever such animportant like when we're
talking about having differentways of moving or orienting
toward the times we're in, Snakemedicine is exactly that. And
I'm so relieved that I'm notteaching it for the first time
this year, you know? So that'sthe class. It's 12 weeks,

(59:54):
because each module is so richand has so much in it. So we
have six modules, and that alsoincludes, I didn't talk much
about being a breathworkfacilitator, but I am, and so
snake medicine also includesfour group breathwork sessions.
This year, I'm adding newelements. I'm adding Tarot

(01:00:15):
spreads for each module. Eachmodule has a workbook with
journal questions andreflections and exercises.
There's guided meditations,there's Tarot sort of
meditations, I guess, or likeessays that I've written. And
there's also live group.
Meetings where we talk througheach phase, and I weave in some

(01:00:38):
myth. We talk about anonymousdescent into the underworld.
That's a part of it. And yeah,it's just, it's such a rich
class. It's so beautiful. It's12 weeks. It starts on September
9, and the signups end onSeptember 6. So folks want to
get signed up, they can go to mywebsite. There's also a bitly
link. So it's bit dot, l, y,slash, snakemed, and the S and

(01:01:00):
the M are capitalized, but youcan find it, I'm sure in the
show notes, oh,

Alex Iantaffi (01:01:06):
I will definitely put in the episode description
all the links. And I'm I'm soexcited I and I was smiling when
you said, then my folks werelike, You need to teach you this
year. Because I was like, oh,yeah, I'm always arguing with
this story because it's like,well, you need to do this and
this and this. And I'm like,That's great. So I need some

(01:01:26):
cooperation here, because wehave so much capacity, and I
need you to help me prioritize,you know? So I was like, that
makes sense to me that they werelike, you cannot sit on this
medicine for seven years. Thisis what we need now. And like
you said, so glad you're notteaching it for the first time,
because the need is definitelyit's initial it sounds to me

(01:01:48):
like it's initiatory medicinetoo, right? Because in a way,
you know, it is atransformation. And so it makes
sense using the Inanna story,you know, with all the shedding
at every gate, you know, and theletting go and we go through, I
don't know, in my experience, inmy life, I feel like I've gone
through so many initiations,sure, some of them formal, so to

(01:02:09):
speak, but most of theminformal. And I often say when I
work with initiates, it's like,I don't believe that, like when
we choose initiation, bad thingshappen to us. I believe that
life initiates us all the time,and sometimes we recognize it,
and we look for the support andmentors and teachers that we
need. But you know that, becausesometimes there is almost that

(01:02:31):
kind of Christian fear, like,well, if I choose initiation,
then difficult things willhappen. I'm like, no difficult
things happen all the time in myexperience, in our lives, right?
At the very least on thecollective level, even let alone
on the individual level, right?
And then, if we're lucky, we getthat support, that medicine that
we need. So thank you foroffering that beautiful medicine

(01:02:52):
to community. And it sounds likewhether folks are like trans or
cis or any gender identityright, can access this?

Eli Lawliet (01:03:01):
It's one of my one of my offerings is actually open
to everyone. If folks want aclosed space, I do group breath
work monthly on the thirdTuesday called breath work for
trans liberation, and that isclosed to trans and gender
expansive people. So that's andhonestly, every other thing I've
offered this year has beenclosed. So this is rare

(01:03:23):
opportunity, if you are nottrans identified, to be in one
of my spaces. But it is a spacethat centers like
transnationality, as I explainedearlier, and it's always been
that way. And honestly, everyyear it's just been so beautiful.
It sounds amazing. I know I waslike, when I saw it, I was like,
Oh, I'm going through so manytransitions that I want to take

(01:03:45):
this class. But also, it's areally busy fall, but who knows,
maybe, maybe spirit will will belike, take the class this year.
Even though I'm planning to takeit this year, we'll see. I'm
giving myself some spaciousnessto think about it. Because even
hearing you talk about it, I waslike, yes, yes, yes, do all of
that right? And I remember evenbeing little in sizzling finding

(01:04:07):
snakeskins right as they wereshedding, and always being so
fascinated and and I almostdidn't want to touch them. I was
like, it was like, I felt likesuch a sense of reverence, and I
would just like sit with it andimagine, like the transformation
and what it would feel. And nowit makes so much sense, now that
I know I'm trans, but you know,little seven year old me sitting

(01:04:29):
with that, you know, like thatlittle snakes came going, Wow,
and just contemplating thismystery of shedding and
transformation, right? There wassomething in me already
vibrating in that transimaginality, and it's just
beautiful. There's so many, Idon't know if that happens with
you or your clients, where Iknow for me, there are so many
moments where I look back andI'm like, Oh, how do I look at

(01:04:52):
this for a translance, it has adifferent meaning.
yes, absolutely. Yeah, there wasa we did a breath work for trans
liberation a few months agowhere we realized that multiple
people, myself included, used toidentify as a cat when we were
children, and like, thought thatwe would actually turn into a
cat. And I was like, This is solike, I always thought this was

(01:05:14):
my funny story, and now this is,like, half the room has the same
funny story. Yeah.

Alex Iantaffi (01:05:20):
I mean, I, I'm so, so many of us are, like,
really into, like, shapeshifting, or, you know, I was
really into panaman, all thetransformation stuff, right? Or,
like, and it makes sense,because we feel. Of that in our
DNA, that transimaginality,right? That we know we are shape
shifters, right? And I don'tknow I think of us trans, non

(01:05:45):
binary gender, expensive folksas shape shifters, because and
the gift that that shapeshifting brings to our
communities, right? Yeah, yeah.
So thank you for offering that.
Well. I all good things musthave a punctuation point. I'm

(01:06:06):
not going to call it an end, butI always ask all my guests, is
there anything else that we havenot touched on that you were
hoping to talk about today.

Eli Lawliet (01:06:16):
Oh boy. You know, this has been such a rich
conversation. I think we'vecovered all the ground that I
intended to, but I also agree wecould talk for like hours upon
hours. So definitely, I'll behappy to come back in the
future, and I'm just this hasjust been lovely.

Alex Iantaffi (01:06:36):
Thank you. And likewise, I feel so nourished.
You know, it's like towards theend of my day here, and I was
like, a little tired when westarted this conversation, but
this is such a great example oflike, how a connecting and
community can bring restorationand energy, at least in my life,

(01:06:57):
yeah, you know, even as anintrovert, but I still feel
like, Oh, I I feel like thisrefilled my cup. So thank you so
much, Eli, well, well, thank youfor the beautiful work you do,
for this wonderful conversation,for helping me refill my cup
today, and to you wonderfulgender stories, listeners and

(01:07:19):
watchers now if you're watchingon YouTube, thank you so much
for just tuning in like episodeafter episode. I could not
believe that there are over 70episodes out there. You know,
when I started this in 2018 Icould never imagine they would
just keep going. But thank youso much. And if this has

(01:07:40):
resonated with you in any way,you can find out Eli's work from
like their website, a genderdoula on Instagram, Facebook and
Tiktok, I think, as well. Andall the links will be also in
the episode description. But fortoday, please take care of
yourselves and make sure thatyou make maybe a little bit of

(01:08:02):
space for breath and connectionin your life until next time.