May 12, 2025 • 45 mins
In this powerful episode of The Health Coach Academy, we welcome legendary health educator and founder of Udo’s Choice, Udo Erasmus — a pioneer in the healthy fats movement and the man behind some of the first essential oil blends made with health in mind.
At 82 years old (and still climbing trees!), Udo brings his incredible energy and deep scientific knowledge to discuss:
✅ Why most cooking oils are harming your health — and what to use instead
✅ The origins of his health mission after pesticide poisoning
✅ How frying oils may contribute more to disease than sugar
✅ Why real healing means going back to nature
✅ How health coaches can use accurate information to build trust and results
✅ The massive misinformation around seed oils and omega-6s
✅ The journey of building a health brand with zero business background
Udo also pulls back the curtain on how misinformation spreads in the wellness world — and why critical thinking and deep education are more important than ever.
🧠 Key Topics Covered:
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The life-threatening truth about damaged oils
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How frying oils impact cellular health and inflammation
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Why most people are deficient in Omega-3s
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What makes a truly healthy oil (and how Udo pioneered it)
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The real math behind “just 1% damage” in oils — shocking!
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How Udo built an industry-changing brand through education, not sales
🔗 Resources Mentioned:
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Udo’s Website: https://udoerasmus.com
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Book: Fats That Heal, Fats That Kill
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Follow Udo on Instagram, YouTube, LinkedIn, and Facebook (@udoerasmus)
🙌 Support the Show:
Enjoyed this episode? Please rate, review, and subscribe to the show so we can continue bringing you groundbreaking guests like Udo Erasmus. Your support fuels
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hey Udo, welcome to the show.
How are you today?
Hey, I'm Omar.
I am doing e. Excellent.
Oh, you look, you know, for, for anold guy, I am gonna be 83 in May.
So I, you know what, I, I had you onthis podcast, burns Fat, and when you
said you, I think you were like 81then, and we were saying how good you
looked back then, so nothing's changed.
(00:23):
Yeah.
So you're not aging a day, soyou're doing something right.
I, I'm doing, yeah.
I, uh, the other, the other day Iclimbed a ladder up 10 trees to, to
take some ropes out of the trees.
Oh my goodness.
And I'm standing on top of theladder and one of the guys is
looking out of his apartment.
He says, Jesus, what is Udo doing up here?
He is an old guy.
He shouldn't be doing stuff like this.
(00:44):
It, it was, it was really fun.
It was really fun.
I'm, I'm careful, you know, 'causeI'm not, I don't feel like, I
don't like falling off ladders.
Yeah.
I've already done that when I was younger.
Right.
But it needed to be done.
And it was, it was completely safe.
I had a guy who stood onthe bottom of the ladder.
We made sure the ladder was, was solid andthen he had to lean it against the tree.
(01:04):
And so, you know, it can turn with,because it's not on a flat surface.
It's just everything is very deliberate.
I, I can get very focused.
Mm-hmm.
So there was not a dropof adrenaline in doing it.
Wow.
And we got it.
And we got it done.
We took the, took ropes outtatrees in, uh, and uh, off of that
(01:25):
la off of the top of that ladder.
I think we did, uh, 10trees in an hour and a half.
Wow.
That's, that's, that's great.
I, I would not be doing that.
Well, the night before, youknow, I was thinking, uh, maybe
I shouldn't be doing that.
I'm 82.
You know, it's like, so, but, butall of that is, is I look at all of
(01:47):
the options, all of what's possible,all, all of what could go wrong.
Mm-hmm.
And then I'm alert to what Ineed to do to do it safely.
That's good.
But I had that, I had that timelike in bed, thinking about
what I was gonna do, right?
Yeah.
But then when I went and did it,I, no, no adrenaline, no nothing.
(02:07):
Just doing it, just doingit Focused, very focused.
All I needed was a pair of scissors to cutthe, to cut the ropes, you know, and I,
and, and the guy standing on the ladder.
On the bottom so that ithad some weight on it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Not just on top.
Right.
And it was really fun, except myass really hurt the next day and,
(02:28):
and my, and my pecs too, right here.
Well, thank God a lot more couldhave been hurt if you were, you were
a little bit, if I've fallen down,I would not not have been good.
Exactly.
Exactly.
But if I, you know, but I'm not,I'm not a daredevil that way.
Like if, if I went up there and I said,I would say, no, I'm not doing it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because nobody, nobody wants me notto fall off a ladder more than me.
(02:54):
I do not wanna fall off a ladder.
I will not fall off a ladder.
Yeah.
If I think I'm gonna fall offthe ladder, I won't go up.
Exactly Right.
It's not this, it's nottestosterone driven.
It's, it's kind of like fun though.
It's adventure.
That was a good adventure.
I'd never done something like that.
Okay.
Right.
And I, and it was, yeah, itwas, it was good, you know?
(03:16):
Awesome.
So they were all, theywere all very impressed.
Wow.
This old guy, you know, he isdoing this thing, you know,
but I'm, I'm, I'm pretty good.
I, I do quite a bit of gardeningand take trees down and, you know.
Still have some biceps inhere, over here somewhere.
Nice, nice.
Yeah, no, listen, I said you look great.
You know, and you, yougoing, and of course we had a
(03:37):
great conversation off here.
So hopefully we get to touch on a littlebit about that because that brings all of
your essence together and yeah, a big fan.
Like I mentioned before, Isaw your products in Whole
Foods many, many years ago.
I've probably been gettingstuff from your brand forever.
So I want the audience toget to know you a little bit.
Um, yeah.
Once they hear who you are, they'rego, oh, I, they probably bought
(04:00):
your stuff too, so it's Yeah.
Things around some of them might've.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
You know, this is a health conscious,uh, podcast, so everybody Yeah.
Health coach probably has ran into it.
So it, it just like a lot ofhealth coaches who get into this
particular space, we get into itbecause we had to overcome something
in our health world that we juststarted to, we we wanna share.
(04:21):
So, is that, is that, isn't that, isn'tthat where most good learning begins?
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
A self a, a self-made, uh,health disaster or something.
I got poisoned by pesticides'cause I was really careless.
Right.
Well, that's the one Iwant you to jump into.
Tell us that story.
That's where it started.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let's, let's That's See how it started.
Yeah.
That's where the healthstart started for me.
(04:42):
But going further back, I was bornduring the second World War in Poland,
which was then part of Germany.
And I was two and a halfyears old when the, when the.
War ended and we were refugeesfleeing out of Poland to Germany with
(05:02):
the communists chasing us in tanksand trucks on dirt roads with no
military presence in horse-drawn hay,wagons, mothers with young children.
That's it.
That was all.
All was on the road.
And the allies, which we liketo think of as the good guys.
Second World War, right?
There was the bad guys, the Nazis.
(05:22):
Mm-hmm.
Then there was the good guys, the allies.
Yeah.
Well, the allies were, were usingUS refugees as target practice, and
they were shooting at us from planes.
So my mother went off theroad, it was in winter.
She wanted to go off the roadsbecause the roads were not safe.
It was safer to go through thesnow colored covered fields.
(05:42):
But she had six kids with him.
She couldn't take six kids.
Across the fields.
So she took two and left, four behind.
So I got left behind.
So I ended up in an orphanage for afor a bit, and then her sister found
out what happened and she found usand reunited us with the family.
I just remember, you know, not feelingsafe, not knowing what I could trust.
(06:07):
'cause every day we were told somethingdifferent 'cause it was so chaotic.
Right.
It's a crazy place to raisekids as in a, in a, in a refugee
war zone, you know, like, yeah.
And I, and, and, and we ended upin Germany, and I, I would listen
to adults argue like so intensely,just like the same way they do,
(06:29):
they do now, adults, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And it would always make me really uneasy.
And one day it'll occurred tome, man, there must be a way that
human beings can live in harmony.
And this little cocky voice of a6-year-old that doesn't know how
complicated everything is said,oh, and I'm gonna find out how.
So that's been my life story, hasreally been driven by that event, by,
(06:53):
you know, by, by what I went through.
And then, you know, and, and,and different parts of my life
story, uh, you know, I like doingprojects and almost every project.
That I've done has come from a disaster.
Mm-hmm.
That got my attention.
(07:13):
So when it comes to the stuff I've donewith oils that started, my marriage
broke up, I wanted to kill something,I was really upset 'cause I thought
marriage was supposed to be for life.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh.
And, uh, I got a jobas a pesticide sprayer.
I wanted to kill something.
Pesticides are made only to kill things.
(07:34):
Mm. So I got very focused, killing things.
And it was like weeds and, uh,uh, insects and fungus, you know,
herbicides, pesticides, right?
Mm-hmm.
And was really, really careless.
And after three years of beingreally careless, I got poisoned
by the pesticides I was using to,to poison other, other creatures.
(07:58):
Mm-hmm.
And I went to the doctor and said, well,what do you have for pesticide poisoning?
And she said nothing.
Hmm.
Bingo.
Penny dropped.
Oh, my health is my responsibility.
It really is my responsibility.
I mean, I knew it in theory, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it's different when, when youhave a real problem to deal with.
Right.
And so I had background in biologicalsciences and biochemistry, genetics.
(08:22):
'cause I was a science geek.
Mm-hmm.
Because I wanted to know what life is.
So I I, I was into thebiological sciences.
'cause you look around and say like, allthese living things we're surrounded by.
And they're all different.
And you know, they're all capable of doingthings and they look different and they
act different and they grow different.
And the flowers are different colors andthe branches are different strengths.
(08:44):
And you know, it's just like you lookat this, it's like, this is fascinating.
Yeah, yeah.
What was it?
What is it that creates all this?
And I wanted to know what life is.
'cause life creates all that.
Right.
They're all signs of life.
So I went into the biological sciences.
We never found out what lifeis there, but we learned about
a lot about form and function.
Anyway, I had the background.
(09:06):
I decided, okay, now I gotta figureout what health is and how to
get, how to get myself healthy.
And I went into Medline, the databasehad 16 million studies posted there.
Hmm.
And of those, uh, 300,000 were on Nutri.
Uh.
600,000 were on nutrition, and Iwas looking at everything that had
(09:27):
to do with nutrition and health,nutrition and disease because I
knew the body's made out of food.
And when something goes wrong with thebody, then all you need to do is raise
your standard for food intake, and inone year, 98% of the atoms in your body
will have been removed and replaced.
(09:48):
So in one year you will have rebuiltyour body 98% to a higher standard.
That's what healing is about.
Mm-hmm.
So you wanna heal, raise your standard.
It's actually that simple.
And you know, and you can do it interms of your food intake, your water
intake, your air intake, your exposureto sunlight, which is your life.
(10:10):
Mm-hmm.
Right?
And then also who, who you hang out with.
What kind of people, you know, arethey encouraging and empowering or
are they always beaten down on you?
Mm-hmm.
Uh, you know, and, and howclean you keep your environment.
And so I started looking at all of that.
I ended up in, in the area offats because it was so confusing.
(10:33):
You know, I read a study thatsaid Omega six is an essential
nutrient, and what that means is.
You have to have it.
You can't make it in yourbody from anything else.
And so you have to bring it in fromoutside 'cause you can't make it.
That's number one.
Number two is if you don't getenough, you cannot stay healthy.
(10:56):
Your health will go down and if youdon't get enough long enough, you die.
These are like the, the reallycornerstone of the body construction.
And the third part is if you'regoing down because you're not getting
enough of an essential nutrient.
Before you die.
And that's because death bydefinition is not reversible.
Right?
(11:17):
If it's reversible, you didn't die.
Right.
Right, right, right.
So if you bring enough back of what'smissing before you die, then all the
problems that come from not getting enoughare reversed because life knows what to
do, provided you take responsibility.
We take responsibility here atour mouth to make sure all of
(11:38):
the essential building blocks.
That life requires land in the bodyso it can use them to make the body.
That applies.
That definition of essential applies to18 minerals, 13 vitamins, nine essential
amino acids, two essential fatty acids.
Mm-hmm.
And so I'm reading this study, it saysOmega six is an essential nutrient.
(12:02):
Can't make it, gotta have it,gotta get it from outside.
If you don't get enough, you go down.
If you don't get enoughlung enough, you die.
But if you bring enough back beforeyou die, you get your health back.
That's right.
So omega six is one of those.
At the very next study I wrote says, omegasix gives you a cancer and kills you.
(12:22):
Mm-hmm.
And I'm going, uh, what?
That doesn't make any sense.
Right, right.
I have to eat it so it can kill me.
Right.
It's like it's, it's like, likethat saying, God, you know, God
loves you unconditionally, butif you look at him, he kills you.
That's what we weretold when we were kids.
Right.
(12:43):
It's like, uh, somebody'smaking something up here.
Something's not right.
Right.
And this con contradiction made me lookdeeper, said I must be missing something.
Mm-hmm.
You know, there either somebody's lying.
Mm-hmm.
And I didn't assume at thatpoint that they were lying.
(13:03):
So I said, I must be missing something.
There must be something herethat that makes that explainable.
I. And so I looked into how oils are madeand found out that in order to make oil,
well, first of all, oils are the mostsensitive of all our essential nutrients.
They're damaged by light,by oxygen, by heat.
(13:24):
They need the most care of anyof our essential nutrients.
Mm-hmm.
We actually give them the least care.
We fry them, and in the fryingpan, they're damaged by light,
oxygen, heat, all at the same time.
And that's frying is the dumbestthing we've ever invented to do
to food if health is our goal.
Hmm.
(13:45):
Right.
So really sensitive, but theindustry wanted a shelf life on
these oils because then they couldmake it in New York where you are.
Mm-hmm.
And could sell it in West,on the West Coast where I am.
In Tokyo and inJohannesburg and in Berlin.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And in Shanghai, right?
(14:05):
Mm-hmm.
So, but for that you have tohave a long shelf life because
you gotta ship it and store it.
So how do you get a good shelf life?
Well, they found out that if youtreat the oil with sodium hydroxide,
which is a very corrosive base mm-hmm.
That you go know as draino,that's what you unplug your
sink pipes when they clog up.
(14:26):
Very, very corrosive.
Then they treat it with phosphoricacid, very corrosive acid.
Then they bleach it with bleachingclays that makes it go rancid.
And then to clean up the ranciditythat makes the oil smell bad,
they have to deodorize it.
And to do that, they have to heat theoil to frying temperature for half an
(14:47):
hour to blow off the ran and molecules.
And when they do that, a half to 1%of the oil molecules are damaged.
They're turned into some, they'returned from something that existed in
nature that life knows how to deal with.
'cause life developed innature around natural things.
(15:09):
Mm-hmm.
Well, now it turns into something thatnever existed in nature, that life
never made a breakdown program for.
And because it doesn't make a breakdownprogram and it's no longer a natural
molecule, when it gets in your body, itoccupies space in your body that should
be occupied by a natural molecule,but it takes its place and it can't do
(15:33):
what needs to be done in that space.
And so it interferes with your bio,biochemical, biological processes.
Mm-hmm.
And if you do that long enough, there'sgonna be so many places in your body.
I. That are being blocked by thesedamaged molecules that you're gonna get
symptoms of something not working, right?
(15:55):
Mm-hmm.
So then I thought, okay, well.
Half to 1% of the molecules are damaged.
That's not good.
I, I think, you know, I,I, I didn't like that.
So I say I decided to checkout why are they doing this?
They know it does damage.
'cause I got that out oftheir, out of their journals.
(16:15):
Mm-hmm.
Why are they damaging the oil?
So I called the Oil ChemistSociety, the umbrella
organization for the oil industry.
They're in Champaign, Illinois.
Hmm.
And I said, I want to talkto one of the researchers.
Because I wanted to talk to a sciencegeek, not a, not a sales rep, right?
And they put him on the line and Isaid, well, you know, when you, when
(16:38):
you know that the way you make theoil damages it, why do you do that?
He said, well, one of the reasons we dothat is because we can get rid, get rid
of about half the pesticides in the oil.
You know, it's another one of thosethings is I've been poisoned by pesticide.
That was not good news.
I didn't even know therewere pesticides in oils.
Right at that time, right.
(16:59):
Nobody ever told us.
I studied lipids, fats in, in university.
Nobody ever talked about pesticidepesticides and cooking oils, right?
Hmm.
So I didn't say that to him though,because, you know, he hadn't
been poisoned by pesticides.
But I asked him, well, why don't youstart with organically grown seeds?
Then you have no pesticide popesticide problem to deal with.
(17:22):
And it was this long silenceat the other end of the phone.
And I waited because I, you know,I, I, obviously I can talk, but I,
I know I, I, I know how to listento, so I waited and I don't know,
it seemed like a really long time.
Might've been only three seconds,but it seemed like a long silence.
And when he came back,he was really angry.
(17:45):
He said, I don't knowwhat your problem is.
The oil's only 1% damaged.
It's 99% good.
And if you got 99% on exam, you'dbe damn happy, wouldn't you?
I. Hmm.
So now I'm, I'm backing off andI say, well, yeah, it's only 1%.
Although I wasn't impressed with the99 because in genetics I used to get
a hundred percent 'cause I loved thetopic and I was really good at it.
(18:09):
So, and I even in my pesticidesprayer exam, I got 99.5%, so
his 99 was not as impressive tome as it maybe it was for him.
So I, who knows, I, I didn't go into that.
Right, right, right.
Then, so then I thought, okay,well maybe I'm overreacting.
(18:29):
It's only 1%.
You know, in a way you say, oh,well, you know, it's 99% good.
It's only 1% bad.
That's pretty good, right?
So I said, okay, let's, there's asaying when in doubt do the math.
So I decided to find out if Itake a tablespoon of an oil.
That is being treated the way industrytreats them and is 1% damaged.
(18:52):
How many damaged molecules aregonna be in that tablespoon of oil?
And, uh, it's a questionI'm gonna ask you.
I just asked you that question, so give mea number, I guess, you know, and the thing
is, the reason why I do this, becausewe don't ha know the, we don't have the
background to, to figure out the math.
(19:12):
I'll tell you a funny story.
Uh, it's really brief because I, Ididn't learn much from statistics.
Um, I, I should, I should, I didn'tlearn much in college, but I remember
this thing in statistics, right?
Yeah.
It was, it was an example, likekind of what you're alluding to.
It was, you know, like the Lysol spray.
Yeah.
It says it kills 99.9% of the germs.
(19:34):
Yeah.
And what is that point?
Oh one or whatever that is.
How many germs will that be?
Yeah.
And it was like a zillions germ.
Yeah.
Right.
So I think that's where you're goingwith this, because I, I was like,
you know, yeah, the Lysol is gonnakill everything, blah, blah, blah.
But yeah.
Yeah.
That 0.01 was.
(19:56):
There's a bazillion Yeah.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Close.
It's the same thing when you doa mouthwash, you know, it kills
99.9% of the bad breath bacteria.
Yeah.
Well then how come your Bbreath is so bad in the morning?
Yeah.
And the reason is because theydouble every 20 to 30 minutes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you, you don't swallow whenyou're asleep, so those rot
(20:17):
bacteria are, are eating your mouth.
Right.
Right, right, right.
And then, and then if you do the mathon that, which I like doing math right.
Uh, you, you, when you wake up inthe morning, you will have 32 to 64
times more bad breath bacteria inyour mouth than you had before you
(20:37):
brushed your teeth in the evening.
Wow.
That's why it's so bad, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Excuse me, honey, I wanna talk toyou, but I gotta brush my teeth first.
You know, that kind, that kind of thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So anyway, so, uh, I did it and whenI asked this question, people always
estimate, well, no, gimme a number.
(20:59):
So you already, you already primed for it.
But gimme a number.
I'd say, uh, a billion, billion.
Billion has how many zeros?
Nine, right?
Yeah.
Okay, so your number is, youshould add a six in front of it,
and then it's 10 zeros too low.
10 zeros too low.
10 zeros too low.
(21:20):
Wow.
Okay.
And 10 zeros is like, that's 10 bill.
60 billion times Your estimateis 60 billion times too low.
Now why I say that is the peoplewho listen to your podcast.
They don't know it either.
When I ask the question, nobodyhas ever, when they didn't,
didn't already know this story.
(21:42):
Nobody has ever guessed lessthan a billion times too low.
Hmm.
It's always So what?
And the reason why I dothis, this goes like this.
You know, you use these oils andyou think, oh, 1% is not a big deal.
Oh, you, you don't even think maybethere isn't even any damage 'cause
you don't even think about it.
Right.
(22:03):
But you take, for every tablespoon of oilthat you take in, you get 60 quintillion
damaged molecules into your body.
That's more than a milliondamaged molecules for every one
of your body's 60 trillion cells.
Wow.
And then you, and thenyou do that for 30 years.
(22:24):
So now you gotta multiplythat number by about.
11,000, the number of days in, in 30years, and you use it for frying, you have
to multiply the number by three to sixtimes, and there's pesticides in the oil,
and there's plastic in the oils because,because oils leach plastic at plastic
(22:46):
oils, swell plastics and PLAs, and plasticleeches into oils quicker than into water.
So that, so all of this has happened, andthen you say, okay, well, you know, then
something goes wrong and you say, I, I,I, I don't know why I got this problem.
I always ate good because you didn'tknow what I'm just telling you.
Mm-hmm.
So you didn't know that you are, you are,you're doing more than a billion times
(23:11):
more damage to yourself by using theseoils than you thought you were doing.
That's why I asked thethe math question, right.
And is that enough?
You know, I was in Ireland and said,well, if, if you were at the airport and
you were gonna fly home and you had yourboarding card and this guy tapped you on
the shoulders, Mr. Tell the truth, right?
(23:32):
He only ever tells the truth.
He says, by the way, did you knowthat on this flight home, your chance
of crashing and dying is a billiontimes higher than you thought it was?
Would you get on an airplane?
And I told him in Ireland, Iwould canoe back to Canada.
I would not get on the airplane.
(23:53):
And the point is that maybe is it is,is that, is that reason for you to
make rethink using oils, frying foods,and using oils damaged by industry in
your food that you're eating becauseyou're trying to be healthy and you
(24:14):
say No, I think that needs to change.
Cook in water, eat raw.
Don't fry your food in oils.
It's the dumbest thing we've invented.
Get your frying pan, whack yourselfupside the head with it, and then get
that, throw that stupid thing out.
Right.
So, Udo, let me, can I ask a quickquestion because, um, I know as health
(24:34):
coaches, we do tell people that thereare certain oils that are tolerable
at higher temperatures, et cetera.
Is that, uh, not trueeither Or like oil oils or?
You want the short answer?
Um, maybe.
'cause I don't know what I'mgonna do after this episode, so.
Yeah.
Okay.
Bullshit.
(24:55):
Bullshit.
Yeah, because, becausehere, here's how it goes.
The research says when you fryanything in fat or oil could be hard.
Fats could be liquid oils.
Okay?
You're turning whatever you're cooking.
Could be carbs, could be protein, right?
First they go, they turn yellow, thenthey turn brown, then they turn black,
(25:18):
and then they start, start to smoke.
So, you know, you're changingthe molecules and, and in nature
the mandate for eating is fresh,whole, raw, organic, local for
every creature that eats in nature.
The only creature in naturethat doesn't do that is us.
'cause we think we'resmarter than 4 billion years.
(25:41):
Of development of life in nature.
That's how arrogant we are.
Right?
So, uh, and so, and then they say,okay, so when you, when you cook
in oils, you're damaging the oil.
You're damaging the protein, you'redamaging the carbs and the damage, carbs,
the damaged proteins and the damagedoil, all three independent of each
(26:03):
other, increase inflammation in yourbody and increase the risk of cancer.
Hmm.
Now the dieticians, you know,they will say to you, 'cause
they're trained for hospitaldiets, which are disgusting diets.
Yeah.
You know, they'll say, oh, you know,frying is not so good for you, but
(26:24):
you know, you gotta enjoy your life.
So go ahead.
Well, that's not health advice.
Mm-hmm.
That's, that's making an excusefor something we shouldn't
be doing in the first place.
Hmm.
And they, and that means when they tellyou that they're not working for you.
They're working for something else.
Maybe they're working for theguys who sell you the oil.
Right, right, right, right.
(26:45):
So, so, um, and that's, that's just afact of it right now, if you're gonna
fry, you get less damage from hard fats.
Oils are damaged more than hard fats,but the hard fats don't have the
essential fatty acids in them, and 99%of the population doesn't get enough.
(27:06):
Omega-3.
The omega sixes we get are damagedfor a million damaged molecules,
uh, for every one of the body.
60 trillion cells in one tablespoon.
So what, but when I came, when that,when I learned that, I said, man, we
should make oils with health in mind.
(27:28):
Mm-hmm.
And what does that mean?
You gotta protect them from the heatwhile they're being made and filtered.
Settled filled.
Mm-hmm.
And you never use 'em for frying.
You add them to foods after they come offthe heat, you wanna get Omega-3 and six.
The only two things from fats and oilsthat we have to have, you want to get
them in the right ratio, gives theuse the same pathways in the cells.
(27:51):
And if you get too much ofone, it'll crowd out the other.
If you get too much of theother, the crowd out the one.
So the ratio has to be right.
And then, and literally Istarted an industry for making
oils with health in mind.
You call me the father ofthe Healthy Fats Movement.
Somebody came up with that.
I didn't come up with that.
Right.
And I'm in the, in the CanadianHealth Food Association Hall of
(28:14):
Fame for starting an industry ofmaking oils with health in mind.
Hmm.
And we started with flax seededoil because Omega-3 is the
single most widespread essentialnutrient deficiency over time.
99% of the population,population doesn't get enough.
They're five times more sensitiveto damage than the omega sixes.
(28:36):
So they're a nightmare to work with.
Nobody wants to work with them.
So we made that our first oilto bring the Omega threes back.
And of course I got really excited aslike, oh my God, 99% of the population
isn't getting their omega threes.
Mm-hmm.
Oh my God.
If we can make 'em with health in mindand we can bring 'em to the population,
oh my God, we could help almost everybody.
(28:57):
And I got so excited.
It was like, oh yeah, thisis a mission from God.
Yeah.
You know, it's kind of like,oh man, now there it is.
Kind of like now there'ssomething worth doing.
It's, for me, it was likevery personal, right?
Mm-hmm.
For me and I'm gonna do it.
And that's how that started.
And I had no business background,but I was had, but I had a ton of
(29:20):
biochemistry background, which is helpful.
I had enthusiasm up the yin yang.
Wow.
So, right.
And it was all done on enthusiasm.
And we made decisions.
Business, I, I made businessdecisions right and left.
'cause we, I was clear about the standard.
What were we doing here?
And we wouldn't work with peoplewho wouldn't hold to our standards.
(29:43):
And we, and, and in two years, flaxseedoil became the second highest selling
oil in the natural foods industry,which is where we were active.
Two years.
Took us two years.
So, yeah.
No, it's an amazing story and again,it, we could talk about a lot of
different angles, but I guess Idefinitely wanna keep it in a lane.
And I guess I, you know,I'd love to have you back.
(30:04):
Yeah, we could expand on a lot ofdifferent things because we had like.
Well, we wanna do that whole totalhealth and uh, human nature stuff.
I know, I know.
Yeah.
We'll do it.
We'll do that on another one.
Yeah, that'd be awesome.
And I'll write it down, makesure that we don't miss it.
Yeah.
But I'm thinking that how you startedand like again, a health coach
was just starting out is thinkinglike, yeah, that's a great mission.
(30:24):
How did you market this?
Because you obviously, like Isaid, took the world by storm and
how'd you get this message out?
You know, you obviously were able to.
Articulate the educational componentof what you were doing and what,
what was that, that strategy?
I'm just curious because Okay.
Well, honestly, honestly, whenit comes to, uh, I am more of
(30:46):
an educator than anything else.
Okay.
I love the conversations, I lovelearning and I love teaching.
Mm-hmm.
And I love bringing, youknow, bringing things that I
learn that are helpful to me.
To other people who can benefit from them.
That's why I wrote the book.
I, uh, I wasn't, Iwasn't making any money.
I moved in with my motherwhen I was, uh, how old was I?
(31:08):
Um, 83.
So 41.
I was 41 years old.
Moved in with my mother 'causeI wanted to write the book.
She said, okay, free room and board.
Hmm.
And, uh, and so I wrote the bookbecause I said, you know what
I've learned about fats in dealingwith my pesticide poisoning.
I learned a lot aboutfats that I never knew.
Even though I studied Fats inUniversity and I thought, man,
(31:31):
there must be other people who canbenefit from what I've learned.
Mm-hmm.
So how do you done write a book andthen the book finds your audience?
The book finds the audiences, youknow, and that's what happened.
So, uh, and then we went out ona 1988, we went on a tour in a
van without air conditioning inthe hottest months of the year.
(31:56):
July, August, half of June andhalf of September, we went through
the US 35 states, 17,000 milesby road, 85 cities in 101 days.
Wow.
And we talked to anybody who would listento us and what really, what really made
(32:18):
it happen was the enthusiasm we had.
I was so on fire.
You know, I'm still on.
I mean, I'm, I talkabout, I'm still on fire.
Yeah.
There's so much can be, you know,more health problems come from damaged
oil than any other part of nutrition.
Hmm.
So, damaged oils areworse than white sugar.
(32:39):
Hmm.
White sugar comes close, butdamaged oils do more damage.
More health problems come from damagedoils than any other part of nutrition,
and more benefits come from oilsmade with health in mind than any
other change you make in nutrition.
(33:00):
But then you have to pick either theseeds and nuts, organic unroasted.
That contain the essential fattyacids, or you have to get the essential
fatty acids made with health in mind.
They gotta be in in glass bottles.
They gotta be in brown glass bottles.
We put a box around it to cut the lightout 'cause the light damages oils.
(33:20):
I. And you have to use them.
Not in the frying pan.
You could put 'em in hot soup andon steamed veggies, but you never,
ever, ever, ever, ever wanna use oilsmade with health in mind for frying
because you basically take, youknow, you, you're pounding the hell
outta the oils with your frying pan.
Right?
Right, right.
(33:40):
So from a health perspective,you just don't do that.
So you must feel.
Vindicated now that it's 2025 and thisis a, this is actually a thing now.
Like, you know, like a lot of peopleare talking about the dangers of
oils and seed oils and the, you know,all these different angles of it.
Yeah.
Tell about that.
(34:00):
Yeah.
So the, yeah, this a, that's a good one.
You know, 'cause there's a lot ofpeople now saying, don't use seed
oils and don't use omega sixes.
And there have been maybethree books written on that.
That are topical right now,but there've been books like
that for the past 45 years.
Yeah.
I got Poison in 1980.
Flax Oil came out in 1986.
(34:23):
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And so I've been in thatindustry for that long.
All of the people who are writingthose books have done half their
homework because what they're doingis they, you, you, these damaged
laws are used in, in, uh, research.
Nobody talks about them being damaged.
(34:45):
Mm-hmm.
You know that 1%.
Right?
And so then they get negative effects.
So then they blame it on the oilwhen they should be blaming it
on the damage done to the oils.
Hmm.
And, and when I, I told you, you know,I saw omega six is essential and Omega
six gives you cancer and kills you.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
(35:05):
Well, they're picking out thecancer and kills you part.
They're not.
What about the essential nutrient part?
And then they try to weasel their wayaround and say, oh, you don't need them.
If you take enough B vitamins, youdon't need essential fatty acids.
It's complete bs.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And so what they have done is they've,they have done all their homework.
I look deeper and recognized that it wasdamage done by processing in by food use.
(35:30):
That is causing the problems.
They don't tell you that.
They tell you Don't use, don't use oils.
And you know what's really funny?
I've been working inthis field for 45 years.
Mm-hmm.
I've given like 10,000talks in media interviews.
I have a book called Fats ThatHeel, fats That Kill, that
sold probably 300,000 copies.
(35:52):
I am not hiding, not one of theauthors of any of these books that
diss the seed oils and that disomega sixes has ever talked to me.
Hmm.
You would think if you wanted to do yourhomework, you at least you wanna, you
wanna, you'd wanna say what this crazyguy who's a proponent of oils, you know,
(36:13):
what kind of thing he's talking about.
You'd think.
No, but they, you know, they,they just, and then they, and
then they scare you, and then theysell you something else behind it.
Yeah, yeah.
So kind of, they, they, they scareyou and then they be your savior.
Now, I don't do that.
That's stupid, you know, but, but that's,you know, everybody does it, right?
(36:36):
Not one of them has evertalked to me, not one of them.
That's wild.
Not one of them.
And I know oils, you know, I, I'm, I mean,I, I know 'em from the, from the, uh,
from the nerd angle, you know, the, thechemistry and the biochemistry of them.
But I also know about how to builda machinery for making them right.
(36:58):
And I also know the education, and Ialso know the people and the food users.
And I also know the difference between.
The results people get when they useoils made with health and wine and
when they use oils that are damaged.
Mm-hmm.
Like that, that's beenmy life for 45 years.
Not one of them has ever talked to me.
That is unbelievable.
So, you know, I'm a conspiracytheorist at heart, so I, there
(37:20):
has to be something behind it.
That's all I gotta say.
I'm not gonna belabor that pointtoo much because, you know.
Obviously the industry is,but, but, but even, even like
supposed health health gurus.
Mm. You know, some very well known ones.
(37:40):
Mm. Not one has evertalked to me, not one.
And I've invited them to talk to me.
Yeah.
I've even asked some of them to talk tome, you know, 'cause I'm trying to help.
You know?
Yeah, yeah.
I, I don't, I don't take itpersonally, but I'm trying to help.
Let's get, you can't, you can'tfix a lie and you can't get good
(38:01):
results from, from bad information.
And when you get bad information,you lose your freedom because
lying is a form of dictatorship.
Takes away your freedom to choose.
'cause you can't choose on ba on lies.
Exactly right.
And so, so this is a big deal.
It's a, from a, from a pers Imean, it's a really a big deal.
(38:21):
You could apply the same kind oflogic to everything else that's
not working in in the world.
It's all based on lies.
And you know people, you know, it'slike our healthcare system is a
disease management system, right?
But it's called healthcare.
That's a misrepresentationof the service it provides.
I'm not saying that it doesn't have aplace, but I'm saying, call it what it is.
(38:43):
It's disease management, it's symptomsuppression, it's crisis intervention.
It's monitoring yourroad to the graveyard.
That's, that's what medicine is.
Right?
And even when it's preventive, it's stillfocused on disease because we don't even
have a definition of what health is.
Right.
(39:03):
And it has to be based onnature and human nature, right?
Mm-hmm.
Because the, the doctors didn'tinvent health and the governments
didn't invent health, and thelawyers didn't invent health.
Health was invented by life in nature.
Mm-hmm.
And we are creatures.
That have needs that life determinedbecause we are also part of nature and
(39:28):
we came out of nature and, and nature.
You know, we were made to besustained what's in nature, not by
synthetic molecules, not by moleculesthat never existed in natures.
That's why they have side effects.
They don't belong in the body.
Right, right, right.
So you can look at everythingthat's not working on this
planet and it's always the same.
(39:49):
People are not looking for what is true.
They're just looking forhow they can make a buck.
How they can turn a buck.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean it's, it's, it's veryinteresting the times we live in.
Yeah.
I think that's, uh, uh, it'sserendipitously how we can end this
particular call, because that has kind ofbrought us to full circle how we want to.
(40:12):
Take part two becausethis is exactly the, yeah.
Part two about what is human natureand what is, what is, uh, total health
based in nature and human nature.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah, let's do it.
That's a, that's, that's evenmore fun than the oil story.
No, absolutely.
And, and the oil story is great, and Iknow like, again, like the health coach
out there not only learned a little bit.
(40:33):
More about health today, but theywere definitely inspired by your
story and your journey and how, hey,if, if you ever wanna do, if you ever
wanna do a live with, uh, with them.
I don't know if you do that, butif you ever wanna do a live where
they can ask questions and get intothe weeds about all this stuff.
Oh, yeah.
That, that might, yeah, let me write that.
Yeah, I, I coulddefinitely check that out.
That would be really, I mean, yeah, Imean, I'm literally, I'm here to help.
(40:57):
I'm, you know, I.
If they can do, if they're, ifthey can give better advice,
they will get better results.
That'll be good for their career.
But it'll be particularly whatin, from my perspective, good.
For the clients they have.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
We could all live we way, way, waybetter quality lives than we do.
Mm-hmm.
(41:18):
But there are rules and principlethere, there, there are components
and principles that, that we needto put in place in order to do that.
No, for sure.
And if we don't know what the, what theprinciples or the components are, then
we don't know what to put in place.
Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, knowledge ispower, that's for sure.
I. Yeah.
(41:39):
Especially when acted on.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, especially when put into practice.
Amen.
Amen to that.
Yeah.
So you've been fantastic.
I want to give, uh, you an opportunityto just let the audience know
where to get all the information.
Oh, well, I'm, I am on, I'm on LinkedIn.
I'm on Instagram.
(41:59):
I have a YouTube channel.
Uh, I am.
Do you have a website?
I, I'm on Facebook.
Yeah.
I have a website.
Udo erasmus.com.
It's a, it's a dog's breakfastright now we're, we're, we're doing,
making a lot of changes on it.
Oh, okay.
But it's udo udo erasmus.comor Udo Erasmus on, on Facebook.
(42:20):
Okay.
And if you, if you want to hear someof my other podcasts, um, Udo Erasmus.
Slash podcasts on Facebook.
There's some, and there are some ofthe, some of the podcasts are on,
on the website, my website as well.
Okay, great.
Yeah, no, we'll definitely keep alookout and then, um, yeah, we'll go
for part two and I appreciate Yeah.
(42:42):
You jumping on the showagain and just Yeah.
A little bit of, uh, uh, yeah.
This is, this is amazing and I'm gladto create, create a little excitement.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That.
All right.
Have a great rest of the day.
All right, you too.
All right.
Hey Udo, welcome to the show.
How are you today?
Hey, I'm Omar.
I am doing e. Excellent.
Oh, you look, you know, for, for anold guy, I am gonna be 83 in May.
So I, you know what, I, I had you onthis podcast, burns Fat, and when you
said you, I think you were like 81then, and we were saying how good you
looked back then, so nothing's changed.
(00:23):
Yeah.
So you're not aging a day, soyou're doing something right.
I, I'm doing, yeah.
I, uh, the other, the other day Iclimbed a ladder up 10 trees to, to
take some ropes out of the trees.
Oh my goodness.
And I'm standing on top of theladder and one of the guys is
looking out of his apartment.
He says, Jesus, what is Udo doing up here?
He is an old guy.
He shouldn't be doing stuff like this.
(00:44):
It, it was, it was really fun.
It was really fun.
I'm, I'm careful, you know, 'causeI'm not, I don't feel like, I
don't like falling off ladders.
Yeah.
I've already done that when I was younger.
Right.
But it needed to be done.
And it was, it was completely safe.
I had a guy who stood onthe bottom of the ladder.
We made sure the ladder was, was solid andthen he had to lean it against the tree.
(01:04):
And so, you know, it can turn with,because it's not on a flat surface.
It's just everything is very deliberate.
I, I can get very focused.
Mm-hmm.
So there was not a dropof adrenaline in doing it.
Wow.
And we got it.
And we got it done.
We took the, took ropes outtatrees in, uh, and uh, off of that
(01:25):
la off of the top of that ladder.
I think we did, uh, 10trees in an hour and a half.
Wow.
That's, that's, that's great.
I, I would not be doing that.
Well, the night before, youknow, I was thinking, uh, maybe
I shouldn't be doing that.
I'm 82.
You know, it's like, so, but, butall of that is, is I look at all of
(01:47):
the options, all of what's possible,all, all of what could go wrong.
Mm-hmm.
And then I'm alert to what Ineed to do to do it safely.
That's good.
But I had that, I had that timelike in bed, thinking about
what I was gonna do, right?
Yeah.
But then when I went and did it,I, no, no adrenaline, no nothing.
(02:07):
Just doing it, just doingit Focused, very focused.
All I needed was a pair of scissors to cutthe, to cut the ropes, you know, and I,
and, and the guy standing on the ladder.
On the bottom so that ithad some weight on it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Not just on top.
Right.
And it was really fun, except myass really hurt the next day and,
(02:28):
and my, and my pecs too, right here.
Well, thank God a lot more couldhave been hurt if you were, you were
a little bit, if I've fallen down,I would not not have been good.
Exactly.
Exactly.
But if I, you know, but I'm not,I'm not a daredevil that way.
Like if, if I went up there and I said,I would say, no, I'm not doing it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because nobody, nobody wants me notto fall off a ladder more than me.
(02:54):
I do not wanna fall off a ladder.
I will not fall off a ladder.
Yeah.
If I think I'm gonna fall offthe ladder, I won't go up.
Exactly Right.
It's not this, it's nottestosterone driven.
It's, it's kind of like fun though.
It's adventure.
That was a good adventure.
I'd never done something like that.
Okay.
Right.
And I, and it was, yeah, itwas, it was good, you know?
(03:16):
Awesome.
So they were all, theywere all very impressed.
Wow.
This old guy, you know, he isdoing this thing, you know,
but I'm, I'm, I'm pretty good.
I, I do quite a bit of gardeningand take trees down and, you know.
Still have some biceps inhere, over here somewhere.
Nice, nice.
Yeah, no, listen, I said you look great.
You know, and you, yougoing, and of course we had a
(03:37):
great conversation off here.
So hopefully we get to touch on a littlebit about that because that brings all of
your essence together and yeah, a big fan.
Like I mentioned before, Isaw your products in Whole
Foods many, many years ago.
I've probably been gettingstuff from your brand forever.
So I want the audience toget to know you a little bit.
Um, yeah.
Once they hear who you are, they'rego, oh, I, they probably bought
(04:00):
your stuff too, so it's Yeah.
Things around some of them might've.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
You know, this is a health conscious,uh, podcast, so everybody Yeah.
Health coach probably has ran into it.
So it, it just like a lot ofhealth coaches who get into this
particular space, we get into itbecause we had to overcome something
in our health world that we juststarted to, we we wanna share.
(04:21):
So, is that, is that, isn't that, isn'tthat where most good learning begins?
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
A self a, a self-made, uh,health disaster or something.
I got poisoned by pesticides'cause I was really careless.
Right.
Well, that's the one Iwant you to jump into.
Tell us that story.
That's where it started.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let's, let's That's See how it started.
Yeah.
That's where the healthstart started for me.
(04:42):
But going further back, I was bornduring the second World War in Poland,
which was then part of Germany.
And I was two and a halfyears old when the, when the.
War ended and we were refugeesfleeing out of Poland to Germany with
(05:02):
the communists chasing us in tanksand trucks on dirt roads with no
military presence in horse-drawn hay,wagons, mothers with young children.
That's it.
That was all.
All was on the road.
And the allies, which we liketo think of as the good guys.
Second World War, right?
There was the bad guys, the Nazis.
(05:22):
Mm-hmm.
Then there was the good guys, the allies.
Yeah.
Well, the allies were, were usingUS refugees as target practice, and
they were shooting at us from planes.
So my mother went off theroad, it was in winter.
She wanted to go off the roadsbecause the roads were not safe.
It was safer to go through thesnow colored covered fields.
(05:42):
But she had six kids with him.
She couldn't take six kids.
Across the fields.
So she took two and left, four behind.
So I got left behind.
So I ended up in an orphanage for afor a bit, and then her sister found
out what happened and she found usand reunited us with the family.
I just remember, you know, not feelingsafe, not knowing what I could trust.
(06:07):
'cause every day we were told somethingdifferent 'cause it was so chaotic.
Right.
It's a crazy place to raisekids as in a, in a, in a refugee
war zone, you know, like, yeah.
And I, and, and, and we ended upin Germany, and I, I would listen
to adults argue like so intensely,just like the same way they do,
(06:29):
they do now, adults, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And it would always make me really uneasy.
And one day it'll occurred tome, man, there must be a way that
human beings can live in harmony.
And this little cocky voice of a6-year-old that doesn't know how
complicated everything is said,oh, and I'm gonna find out how.
So that's been my life story, hasreally been driven by that event, by,
(06:53):
you know, by, by what I went through.
And then, you know, and, and,and different parts of my life
story, uh, you know, I like doingprojects and almost every project.
That I've done has come from a disaster.
Mm-hmm.
That got my attention.
(07:13):
So when it comes to the stuff I've donewith oils that started, my marriage
broke up, I wanted to kill something,I was really upset 'cause I thought
marriage was supposed to be for life.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh.
And, uh, I got a jobas a pesticide sprayer.
I wanted to kill something.
Pesticides are made only to kill things.
(07:34):
Mm. So I got very focused, killing things.
And it was like weeds and, uh,uh, insects and fungus, you know,
herbicides, pesticides, right?
Mm-hmm.
And was really, really careless.
And after three years of beingreally careless, I got poisoned
by the pesticides I was using to,to poison other, other creatures.
(07:58):
Mm-hmm.
And I went to the doctor and said, well,what do you have for pesticide poisoning?
And she said nothing.
Hmm.
Bingo.
Penny dropped.
Oh, my health is my responsibility.
It really is my responsibility.
I mean, I knew it in theory, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it's different when, when youhave a real problem to deal with.
Right.
And so I had background in biologicalsciences and biochemistry, genetics.
(08:22):
'cause I was a science geek.
Mm-hmm.
Because I wanted to know what life is.
So I I, I was into thebiological sciences.
'cause you look around and say like, allthese living things we're surrounded by.
And they're all different.
And you know, they're all capable of doingthings and they look different and they
act different and they grow different.
And the flowers are different colors andthe branches are different strengths.
(08:44):
And you know, it's just like you lookat this, it's like, this is fascinating.
Yeah, yeah.
What was it?
What is it that creates all this?
And I wanted to know what life is.
'cause life creates all that.
Right.
They're all signs of life.
So I went into the biological sciences.
We never found out what lifeis there, but we learned about
a lot about form and function.
Anyway, I had the background.
(09:06):
I decided, okay, now I gotta figureout what health is and how to
get, how to get myself healthy.
And I went into Medline, the databasehad 16 million studies posted there.
Hmm.
And of those, uh, 300,000 were on Nutri.
Uh.
600,000 were on nutrition, and Iwas looking at everything that had
(09:27):
to do with nutrition and health,nutrition and disease because I
knew the body's made out of food.
And when something goes wrong with thebody, then all you need to do is raise
your standard for food intake, and inone year, 98% of the atoms in your body
will have been removed and replaced.
(09:48):
So in one year you will have rebuiltyour body 98% to a higher standard.
That's what healing is about.
Mm-hmm.
So you wanna heal, raise your standard.
It's actually that simple.
And you know, and you can do it interms of your food intake, your water
intake, your air intake, your exposureto sunlight, which is your life.
(10:10):
Mm-hmm.
Right?
And then also who, who you hang out with.
What kind of people, you know, arethey encouraging and empowering or
are they always beaten down on you?
Mm-hmm.
Uh, you know, and, and howclean you keep your environment.
And so I started looking at all of that.
I ended up in, in the area offats because it was so confusing.
(10:33):
You know, I read a study thatsaid Omega six is an essential
nutrient, and what that means is.
You have to have it.
You can't make it in yourbody from anything else.
And so you have to bring it in fromoutside 'cause you can't make it.
That's number one.
Number two is if you don't getenough, you cannot stay healthy.
(10:56):
Your health will go down and if youdon't get enough long enough, you die.
These are like the, the reallycornerstone of the body construction.
And the third part is if you'regoing down because you're not getting
enough of an essential nutrient.
Before you die.
And that's because death bydefinition is not reversible.
Right?
(11:17):
If it's reversible, you didn't die.
Right.
Right, right, right.
So if you bring enough back of what'smissing before you die, then all the
problems that come from not getting enoughare reversed because life knows what to
do, provided you take responsibility.
We take responsibility here atour mouth to make sure all of
(11:38):
the essential building blocks.
That life requires land in the bodyso it can use them to make the body.
That applies.
That definition of essential applies to18 minerals, 13 vitamins, nine essential
amino acids, two essential fatty acids.
Mm-hmm.
And so I'm reading this study, it saysOmega six is an essential nutrient.
(12:02):
Can't make it, gotta have it,gotta get it from outside.
If you don't get enough, you go down.
If you don't get enoughlung enough, you die.
But if you bring enough back beforeyou die, you get your health back.
That's right.
So omega six is one of those.
At the very next study I wrote says, omegasix gives you a cancer and kills you.
(12:22):
Mm-hmm.
And I'm going, uh, what?
That doesn't make any sense.
Right, right.
I have to eat it so it can kill me.
Right.
It's like it's, it's like, likethat saying, God, you know, God
loves you unconditionally, butif you look at him, he kills you.
That's what we weretold when we were kids.
Right.
(12:43):
It's like, uh, somebody'smaking something up here.
Something's not right.
Right.
And this con contradiction made me lookdeeper, said I must be missing something.
Mm-hmm.
You know, there either somebody's lying.
Mm-hmm.
And I didn't assume at thatpoint that they were lying.
(13:03):
So I said, I must be missing something.
There must be something herethat that makes that explainable.
I. And so I looked into how oils are madeand found out that in order to make oil,
well, first of all, oils are the mostsensitive of all our essential nutrients.
They're damaged by light,by oxygen, by heat.
(13:24):
They need the most care of anyof our essential nutrients.
Mm-hmm.
We actually give them the least care.
We fry them, and in the fryingpan, they're damaged by light,
oxygen, heat, all at the same time.
And that's frying is the dumbestthing we've ever invented to do
to food if health is our goal.
Hmm.
(13:45):
Right.
So really sensitive, but theindustry wanted a shelf life on
these oils because then they couldmake it in New York where you are.
Mm-hmm.
And could sell it in West,on the West Coast where I am.
In Tokyo and inJohannesburg and in Berlin.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And in Shanghai, right?
(14:05):
Mm-hmm.
So, but for that you have tohave a long shelf life because
you gotta ship it and store it.
So how do you get a good shelf life?
Well, they found out that if youtreat the oil with sodium hydroxide,
which is a very corrosive base mm-hmm.
That you go know as draino,that's what you unplug your
sink pipes when they clog up.
(14:26):
Very, very corrosive.
Then they treat it with phosphoricacid, very corrosive acid.
Then they bleach it with bleachingclays that makes it go rancid.
And then to clean up the ranciditythat makes the oil smell bad,
they have to deodorize it.
And to do that, they have to heat theoil to frying temperature for half an
(14:47):
hour to blow off the ran and molecules.
And when they do that, a half to 1%of the oil molecules are damaged.
They're turned into some, they'returned from something that existed in
nature that life knows how to deal with.
'cause life developed innature around natural things.
(15:09):
Mm-hmm.
Well, now it turns into something thatnever existed in nature, that life
never made a breakdown program for.
And because it doesn't make a breakdownprogram and it's no longer a natural
molecule, when it gets in your body, itoccupies space in your body that should
be occupied by a natural molecule,but it takes its place and it can't do
(15:33):
what needs to be done in that space.
And so it interferes with your bio,biochemical, biological processes.
Mm-hmm.
And if you do that long enough, there'sgonna be so many places in your body.
I. That are being blocked by thesedamaged molecules that you're gonna get
symptoms of something not working, right?
(15:55):
Mm-hmm.
So then I thought, okay, well.
Half to 1% of the molecules are damaged.
That's not good.
I, I think, you know, I,I, I didn't like that.
So I say I decided to checkout why are they doing this?
They know it does damage.
'cause I got that out oftheir, out of their journals.
(16:15):
Mm-hmm.
Why are they damaging the oil?
So I called the Oil ChemistSociety, the umbrella
organization for the oil industry.
They're in Champaign, Illinois.
Hmm.
And I said, I want to talkto one of the researchers.
Because I wanted to talk to a sciencegeek, not a, not a sales rep, right?
And they put him on the line and Isaid, well, you know, when you, when
(16:38):
you know that the way you make theoil damages it, why do you do that?
He said, well, one of the reasons we dothat is because we can get rid, get rid
of about half the pesticides in the oil.
You know, it's another one of thosethings is I've been poisoned by pesticide.
That was not good news.
I didn't even know therewere pesticides in oils.
Right at that time, right.
(16:59):
Nobody ever told us.
I studied lipids, fats in, in university.
Nobody ever talked about pesticidepesticides and cooking oils, right?
Hmm.
So I didn't say that to him though,because, you know, he hadn't
been poisoned by pesticides.
But I asked him, well, why don't youstart with organically grown seeds?
Then you have no pesticide popesticide problem to deal with.
(17:22):
And it was this long silenceat the other end of the phone.
And I waited because I, you know,I, I, obviously I can talk, but I,
I know I, I, I know how to listento, so I waited and I don't know,
it seemed like a really long time.
Might've been only three seconds,but it seemed like a long silence.
And when he came back,he was really angry.
(17:45):
He said, I don't knowwhat your problem is.
The oil's only 1% damaged.
It's 99% good.
And if you got 99% on exam, you'dbe damn happy, wouldn't you?
I. Hmm.
So now I'm, I'm backing off andI say, well, yeah, it's only 1%.
Although I wasn't impressed with the99 because in genetics I used to get
a hundred percent 'cause I loved thetopic and I was really good at it.
(18:09):
So, and I even in my pesticidesprayer exam, I got 99.5%, so
his 99 was not as impressive tome as it maybe it was for him.
So I, who knows, I, I didn't go into that.
Right, right, right.
Then, so then I thought, okay,well maybe I'm overreacting.
(18:29):
It's only 1%.
You know, in a way you say, oh,well, you know, it's 99% good.
It's only 1% bad.
That's pretty good, right?
So I said, okay, let's, there's asaying when in doubt do the math.
So I decided to find out if Itake a tablespoon of an oil.
That is being treated the way industrytreats them and is 1% damaged.
(18:52):
How many damaged molecules aregonna be in that tablespoon of oil?
And, uh, it's a questionI'm gonna ask you.
I just asked you that question, so give mea number, I guess, you know, and the thing
is, the reason why I do this, becausewe don't ha know the, we don't have the
background to, to figure out the math.
(19:12):
I'll tell you a funny story.
Uh, it's really brief because I, Ididn't learn much from statistics.
Um, I, I should, I should, I didn'tlearn much in college, but I remember
this thing in statistics, right?
Yeah.
It was, it was an example, likekind of what you're alluding to.
It was, you know, like the Lysol spray.
Yeah.
It says it kills 99.9% of the germs.
(19:34):
Yeah.
And what is that point?
Oh one or whatever that is.
How many germs will that be?
Yeah.
And it was like a zillions germ.
Yeah.
Right.
So I think that's where you're goingwith this, because I, I was like,
you know, yeah, the Lysol is gonnakill everything, blah, blah, blah.
But yeah.
Yeah.
That 0.01 was.
(19:56):
There's a bazillion Yeah.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Close.
It's the same thing when you doa mouthwash, you know, it kills
99.9% of the bad breath bacteria.
Yeah.
Well then how come your Bbreath is so bad in the morning?
Yeah.
And the reason is because theydouble every 20 to 30 minutes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you, you don't swallow whenyou're asleep, so those rot
(20:17):
bacteria are, are eating your mouth.
Right.
Right, right, right.
And then, and then if you do the mathon that, which I like doing math right.
Uh, you, you, when you wake up inthe morning, you will have 32 to 64
times more bad breath bacteria inyour mouth than you had before you
(20:37):
brushed your teeth in the evening.
Wow.
That's why it's so bad, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Excuse me, honey, I wanna talk toyou, but I gotta brush my teeth first.
You know, that kind, that kind of thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So anyway, so, uh, I did it and whenI asked this question, people always
estimate, well, no, gimme a number.
(20:59):
So you already, you already primed for it.
But gimme a number.
I'd say, uh, a billion, billion.
Billion has how many zeros?
Nine, right?
Yeah.
Okay, so your number is, youshould add a six in front of it,
and then it's 10 zeros too low.
10 zeros too low.
10 zeros too low.
(21:20):
Wow.
Okay.
And 10 zeros is like, that's 10 bill.
60 billion times Your estimateis 60 billion times too low.
Now why I say that is the peoplewho listen to your podcast.
They don't know it either.
When I ask the question, nobodyhas ever, when they didn't,
didn't already know this story.
(21:42):
Nobody has ever guessed lessthan a billion times too low.
Hmm.
It's always So what?
And the reason why I dothis, this goes like this.
You know, you use these oils andyou think, oh, 1% is not a big deal.
Oh, you, you don't even think maybethere isn't even any damage 'cause
you don't even think about it.
Right.
(22:03):
But you take, for every tablespoon of oilthat you take in, you get 60 quintillion
damaged molecules into your body.
That's more than a milliondamaged molecules for every one
of your body's 60 trillion cells.
Wow.
And then you, and thenyou do that for 30 years.
(22:24):
So now you gotta multiplythat number by about.
11,000, the number of days in, in 30years, and you use it for frying, you have
to multiply the number by three to sixtimes, and there's pesticides in the oil,
and there's plastic in the oils because,because oils leach plastic at plastic
(22:46):
oils, swell plastics and PLAs, and plasticleeches into oils quicker than into water.
So that, so all of this has happened, andthen you say, okay, well, you know, then
something goes wrong and you say, I, I,I, I don't know why I got this problem.
I always ate good because you didn'tknow what I'm just telling you.
Mm-hmm.
So you didn't know that you are, you are,you're doing more than a billion times
(23:11):
more damage to yourself by using theseoils than you thought you were doing.
That's why I asked thethe math question, right.
And is that enough?
You know, I was in Ireland and said,well, if, if you were at the airport and
you were gonna fly home and you had yourboarding card and this guy tapped you on
the shoulders, Mr. Tell the truth, right?
(23:32):
He only ever tells the truth.
He says, by the way, did you knowthat on this flight home, your chance
of crashing and dying is a billiontimes higher than you thought it was?
Would you get on an airplane?
And I told him in Ireland, Iwould canoe back to Canada.
I would not get on the airplane.
(23:53):
And the point is that maybe is it is,is that, is that reason for you to
make rethink using oils, frying foods,and using oils damaged by industry in
your food that you're eating becauseyou're trying to be healthy and you
(24:14):
say No, I think that needs to change.
Cook in water, eat raw.
Don't fry your food in oils.
It's the dumbest thing we've invented.
Get your frying pan, whack yourselfupside the head with it, and then get
that, throw that stupid thing out.
Right.
So, Udo, let me, can I ask a quickquestion because, um, I know as health
(24:34):
coaches, we do tell people that thereare certain oils that are tolerable
at higher temperatures, et cetera.
Is that, uh, not trueeither Or like oil oils or?
You want the short answer?
Um, maybe.
'cause I don't know what I'mgonna do after this episode, so.
Yeah.
Okay.
Bullshit.
(24:55):
Bullshit.
Yeah, because, becausehere, here's how it goes.
The research says when you fryanything in fat or oil could be hard.
Fats could be liquid oils.
Okay?
You're turning whatever you're cooking.
Could be carbs, could be protein, right?
First they go, they turn yellow, thenthey turn brown, then they turn black,
(25:18):
and then they start, start to smoke.
So, you know, you're changingthe molecules and, and in nature
the mandate for eating is fresh,whole, raw, organic, local for
every creature that eats in nature.
The only creature in naturethat doesn't do that is us.
'cause we think we'resmarter than 4 billion years.
(25:41):
Of development of life in nature.
That's how arrogant we are.
Right?
So, uh, and so, and then they say,okay, so when you, when you cook
in oils, you're damaging the oil.
You're damaging the protein, you'redamaging the carbs and the damage, carbs,
the damaged proteins and the damagedoil, all three independent of each
(26:03):
other, increase inflammation in yourbody and increase the risk of cancer.
Hmm.
Now the dieticians, you know,they will say to you, 'cause
they're trained for hospitaldiets, which are disgusting diets.
Yeah.
You know, they'll say, oh, you know,frying is not so good for you, but
(26:24):
you know, you gotta enjoy your life.
So go ahead.
Well, that's not health advice.
Mm-hmm.
That's, that's making an excusefor something we shouldn't
be doing in the first place.
Hmm.
And they, and that means when they tellyou that they're not working for you.
They're working for something else.
Maybe they're working for theguys who sell you the oil.
Right, right, right, right.
(26:45):
So, so, um, and that's, that's just afact of it right now, if you're gonna
fry, you get less damage from hard fats.
Oils are damaged more than hard fats,but the hard fats don't have the
essential fatty acids in them, and 99%of the population doesn't get enough.
(27:06):
Omega-3.
The omega sixes we get are damagedfor a million damaged molecules,
uh, for every one of the body.
60 trillion cells in one tablespoon.
So what, but when I came, when that,when I learned that, I said, man, we
should make oils with health in mind.
(27:28):
Mm-hmm.
And what does that mean?
You gotta protect them from the heatwhile they're being made and filtered.
Settled filled.
Mm-hmm.
And you never use 'em for frying.
You add them to foods after they come offthe heat, you wanna get Omega-3 and six.
The only two things from fats and oilsthat we have to have, you want to get
them in the right ratio, gives theuse the same pathways in the cells.
(27:51):
And if you get too much ofone, it'll crowd out the other.
If you get too much of theother, the crowd out the one.
So the ratio has to be right.
And then, and literally Istarted an industry for making
oils with health in mind.
You call me the father ofthe Healthy Fats Movement.
Somebody came up with that.
I didn't come up with that.
Right.
And I'm in the, in the CanadianHealth Food Association Hall of
(28:14):
Fame for starting an industry ofmaking oils with health in mind.
Hmm.
And we started with flax seededoil because Omega-3 is the
single most widespread essentialnutrient deficiency over time.
99% of the population,population doesn't get enough.
They're five times more sensitiveto damage than the omega sixes.
(28:36):
So they're a nightmare to work with.
Nobody wants to work with them.
So we made that our first oilto bring the Omega threes back.
And of course I got really excited aslike, oh my God, 99% of the population
isn't getting their omega threes.
Mm-hmm.
Oh my God.
If we can make 'em with health in mindand we can bring 'em to the population,
oh my God, we could help almost everybody.
(28:57):
And I got so excited.
It was like, oh yeah, thisis a mission from God.
Yeah.
You know, it's kind of like,oh man, now there it is.
Kind of like now there'ssomething worth doing.
It's, for me, it was likevery personal, right?
Mm-hmm.
For me and I'm gonna do it.
And that's how that started.
And I had no business background,but I was had, but I had a ton of
(29:20):
biochemistry background, which is helpful.
I had enthusiasm up the yin yang.
Wow.
So, right.
And it was all done on enthusiasm.
And we made decisions.
Business, I, I made businessdecisions right and left.
'cause we, I was clear about the standard.
What were we doing here?
And we wouldn't work with peoplewho wouldn't hold to our standards.
(29:43):
And we, and, and in two years, flaxseedoil became the second highest selling
oil in the natural foods industry,which is where we were active.
Two years.
Took us two years.
So, yeah.
No, it's an amazing story and again,it, we could talk about a lot of
different angles, but I guess Idefinitely wanna keep it in a lane.
And I guess I, you know,I'd love to have you back.
(30:04):
Yeah, we could expand on a lot ofdifferent things because we had like.
Well, we wanna do that whole totalhealth and uh, human nature stuff.
I know, I know.
Yeah.
We'll do it.
We'll do that on another one.
Yeah, that'd be awesome.
And I'll write it down, makesure that we don't miss it.
Yeah.
But I'm thinking that how you startedand like again, a health coach
was just starting out is thinkinglike, yeah, that's a great mission.
(30:24):
How did you market this?
Because you obviously, like Isaid, took the world by storm and
how'd you get this message out?
You know, you obviously were able to.
Articulate the educational componentof what you were doing and what,
what was that, that strategy?
I'm just curious because Okay.
Well, honestly, honestly, whenit comes to, uh, I am more of
(30:46):
an educator than anything else.
Okay.
I love the conversations, I lovelearning and I love teaching.
Mm-hmm.
And I love bringing, youknow, bringing things that I
learn that are helpful to me.
To other people who can benefit from them.
That's why I wrote the book.
I, uh, I wasn't, Iwasn't making any money.
I moved in with my motherwhen I was, uh, how old was I?
(31:08):
Um, 83.
So 41.
I was 41 years old.
Moved in with my mother 'causeI wanted to write the book.
She said, okay, free room and board.
Hmm.
And, uh, and so I wrote the bookbecause I said, you know what
I've learned about fats in dealingwith my pesticide poisoning.
I learned a lot aboutfats that I never knew.
Even though I studied Fats inUniversity and I thought, man,
(31:31):
there must be other people who canbenefit from what I've learned.
Mm-hmm.
So how do you done write a book andthen the book finds your audience?
The book finds the audiences, youknow, and that's what happened.
So, uh, and then we went out ona 1988, we went on a tour in a
van without air conditioning inthe hottest months of the year.
(31:56):
July, August, half of June andhalf of September, we went through
the US 35 states, 17,000 milesby road, 85 cities in 101 days.
Wow.
And we talked to anybody who would listento us and what really, what really made
(32:18):
it happen was the enthusiasm we had.
I was so on fire.
You know, I'm still on.
I mean, I'm, I talkabout, I'm still on fire.
Yeah.
There's so much can be, you know,more health problems come from damaged
oil than any other part of nutrition.
Hmm.
So, damaged oils areworse than white sugar.
(32:39):
Hmm.
White sugar comes close, butdamaged oils do more damage.
More health problems come from damagedoils than any other part of nutrition,
and more benefits come from oilsmade with health in mind than any
other change you make in nutrition.
(33:00):
But then you have to pick either theseeds and nuts, organic unroasted.
That contain the essential fattyacids, or you have to get the essential
fatty acids made with health in mind.
They gotta be in in glass bottles.
They gotta be in brown glass bottles.
We put a box around it to cut the lightout 'cause the light damages oils.
(33:20):
I. And you have to use them.
Not in the frying pan.
You could put 'em in hot soup andon steamed veggies, but you never,
ever, ever, ever, ever wanna use oilsmade with health in mind for frying
because you basically take, youknow, you, you're pounding the hell
outta the oils with your frying pan.
Right?
Right, right.
(33:40):
So from a health perspective,you just don't do that.
So you must feel.
Vindicated now that it's 2025 and thisis a, this is actually a thing now.
Like, you know, like a lot of peopleare talking about the dangers of
oils and seed oils and the, you know,all these different angles of it.
Yeah.
Tell about that.
(34:00):
Yeah.
So the, yeah, this a, that's a good one.
You know, 'cause there's a lot ofpeople now saying, don't use seed
oils and don't use omega sixes.
And there have been maybethree books written on that.
That are topical right now,but there've been books like
that for the past 45 years.
Yeah.
I got Poison in 1980.
Flax Oil came out in 1986.
(34:23):
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And so I've been in thatindustry for that long.
All of the people who are writingthose books have done half their
homework because what they're doingis they, you, you, these damaged
laws are used in, in, uh, research.
Nobody talks about them being damaged.
(34:45):
Mm-hmm.
You know that 1%.
Right?
And so then they get negative effects.
So then they blame it on the oilwhen they should be blaming it
on the damage done to the oils.
Hmm.
And, and when I, I told you, you know,I saw omega six is essential and Omega
six gives you cancer and kills you.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
(35:05):
Well, they're picking out thecancer and kills you part.
They're not.
What about the essential nutrient part?
And then they try to weasel their wayaround and say, oh, you don't need them.
If you take enough B vitamins, youdon't need essential fatty acids.
It's complete bs.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And so what they have done is they've,they have done all their homework.
I look deeper and recognized that it wasdamage done by processing in by food use.
(35:30):
That is causing the problems.
They don't tell you that.
They tell you Don't use, don't use oils.
And you know what's really funny?
I've been working inthis field for 45 years.
Mm-hmm.
I've given like 10,000talks in media interviews.
I have a book called Fats ThatHeel, fats That Kill, that
sold probably 300,000 copies.
(35:52):
I am not hiding, not one of theauthors of any of these books that
diss the seed oils and that disomega sixes has ever talked to me.
Hmm.
You would think if you wanted to do yourhomework, you at least you wanna, you
wanna, you'd wanna say what this crazyguy who's a proponent of oils, you know,
(36:13):
what kind of thing he's talking about.
You'd think.
No, but they, you know, they,they just, and then they, and
then they scare you, and then theysell you something else behind it.
Yeah, yeah.
So kind of, they, they, they scareyou and then they be your savior.
Now, I don't do that.
That's stupid, you know, but, but that's,you know, everybody does it, right?
(36:36):
Not one of them has evertalked to me, not one of them.
That's wild.
Not one of them.
And I know oils, you know, I, I'm, I mean,I, I know 'em from the, from the, uh,
from the nerd angle, you know, the, thechemistry and the biochemistry of them.
But I also know about how to builda machinery for making them right.
(36:58):
And I also know the education, and Ialso know the people and the food users.
And I also know the difference between.
The results people get when they useoils made with health and wine and
when they use oils that are damaged.
Mm-hmm.
Like that, that's beenmy life for 45 years.
Not one of them has ever talked to me.
That is unbelievable.
So, you know, I'm a conspiracytheorist at heart, so I, there
(37:20):
has to be something behind it.
That's all I gotta say.
I'm not gonna belabor that pointtoo much because, you know.
Obviously the industry is,but, but, but even, even like
supposed health health gurus.
Mm. You know, some very well known ones.
(37:40):
Mm. Not one has evertalked to me, not one.
And I've invited them to talk to me.
Yeah.
I've even asked some of them to talk tome, you know, 'cause I'm trying to help.
You know?
Yeah, yeah.
I, I don't, I don't take itpersonally, but I'm trying to help.
Let's get, you can't, you can'tfix a lie and you can't get good
(38:01):
results from, from bad information.
And when you get bad information,you lose your freedom because
lying is a form of dictatorship.
Takes away your freedom to choose.
'cause you can't choose on ba on lies.
Exactly right.
And so, so this is a big deal.
It's a, from a, from a pers Imean, it's a really a big deal.
(38:21):
You could apply the same kind oflogic to everything else that's
not working in in the world.
It's all based on lies.
And you know people, you know, it'slike our healthcare system is a
disease management system, right?
But it's called healthcare.
That's a misrepresentationof the service it provides.
I'm not saying that it doesn't have aplace, but I'm saying, call it what it is.
(38:43):
It's disease management, it's symptomsuppression, it's crisis intervention.
It's monitoring yourroad to the graveyard.
That's, that's what medicine is.
Right?
And even when it's preventive, it's stillfocused on disease because we don't even
have a definition of what health is.
Right.
(39:03):
And it has to be based onnature and human nature, right?
Mm-hmm.
Because the, the doctors didn'tinvent health and the governments
didn't invent health, and thelawyers didn't invent health.
Health was invented by life in nature.
Mm-hmm.
And we are creatures.
That have needs that life determinedbecause we are also part of nature and
(39:28):
we came out of nature and, and nature.
You know, we were made to besustained what's in nature, not by
synthetic molecules, not by moleculesthat never existed in natures.
That's why they have side effects.
They don't belong in the body.
Right, right, right.
So you can look at everythingthat's not working on this
planet and it's always the same.
(39:49):
People are not looking for what is true.
They're just looking forhow they can make a buck.
How they can turn a buck.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean it's, it's, it's veryinteresting the times we live in.
Yeah.
I think that's, uh, uh, it'sserendipitously how we can end this
particular call, because that has kind ofbrought us to full circle how we want to.
(40:12):
Take part two becausethis is exactly the, yeah.
Part two about what is human natureand what is, what is, uh, total health
based in nature and human nature.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah, let's do it.
That's a, that's, that's evenmore fun than the oil story.
No, absolutely.
And, and the oil story is great, and Iknow like, again, like the health coach
out there not only learned a little bit.
(40:33):
More about health today, but theywere definitely inspired by your
story and your journey and how, hey,if, if you ever wanna do, if you ever
wanna do a live with, uh, with them.
I don't know if you do that, butif you ever wanna do a live where
they can ask questions and get intothe weeds about all this stuff.
Oh, yeah.
That, that might, yeah, let me write that.
Yeah, I, I coulddefinitely check that out.
That would be really, I mean, yeah, Imean, I'm literally, I'm here to help.
(40:57):
I'm, you know, I.
If they can do, if they're, ifthey can give better advice,
they will get better results.
That'll be good for their career.
But it'll be particularly whatin, from my perspective, good.
For the clients they have.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
We could all live we way, way, waybetter quality lives than we do.
Mm-hmm.
(41:18):
But there are rules and principlethere, there, there are components
and principles that, that we needto put in place in order to do that.
No, for sure.
And if we don't know what the, what theprinciples or the components are, then
we don't know what to put in place.
Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, knowledge ispower, that's for sure.
I. Yeah.
(41:39):
Especially when acted on.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, especially when put into practice.
Amen.
Amen to that.
Yeah.
So you've been fantastic.
I want to give, uh, you an opportunityto just let the audience know
where to get all the information.
Oh, well, I'm, I am on, I'm on LinkedIn.
I'm on Instagram.
(41:59):
I have a YouTube channel.
Uh, I am.
Do you have a website?
I, I'm on Facebook.
Yeah.
I have a website.
Udo erasmus.com.
It's a, it's a dog's breakfastright now we're, we're, we're doing,
making a lot of changes on it.
Oh, okay.
But it's udo udo erasmus.comor Udo Erasmus on, on Facebook.
(42:20):
Okay.
And if you, if you want to hear someof my other podcasts, um, Udo Erasmus.
Slash podcasts on Facebook.
There's some, and there are some ofthe, some of the podcasts are on,
on the website, my website as well.
Okay, great.
Yeah, no, we'll definitely keep alookout and then, um, yeah, we'll go
for part two and I appreciate Yeah.
(42:42):
You jumping on the showagain and just Yeah.
A little bit of, uh, uh, yeah.
This is, this is amazing and I'm gladto create, create a little excitement.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That.
All right.
Have a great rest of the day.
All right, you too.
All right.
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