July 14, 2025 • 36 mins
In this powerhouse episode of the Health Coach Academy Podcast, we sit down with Dr. Jordan Barber, a New York-based doctor of acupuncture, published author, entrepreneur, and self-described creative strategist for wellness businesses.
Dr. Barber dives deep into how failure, neurodivergence, and a punk rock spirit led him to scale from solo practice to owning multiple integrative health clinics and building residual income. He reveals how congruence—not hustle—is the foundation of growth, and why business should feel like a creative and artistic expression.
This episode is a must-listen for health coaches, acupuncturists, and holistic entrepreneurs who want to:
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Find their North Star in business
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Scale without losing authenticity
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Master SEO, social media, and competitive analysis
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Build practices aligned with their personal vision and values
If you're struggling with burnout, unclear about niching, or unsure how to grow your wellness business in today’s digital-first world, this conversation will reset your mindset.
🔥 Topics Covered:
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Why failure is often the first step to scaling
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How to build a practice that's congruent with who you are
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The importance of a vision exercise to guide your brand
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How ADHD and neurodivergence can be assets in entrepreneurship
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The truth about “coaches coaching coaches”
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Why social media and SEO are non-negotiables in 2025
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Data-driven growth tactics every wellness pro should know
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How to avoid burnout and stay true to your mission
📚 Mentioned in the Episode:
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Dr. Jordan Barber's book: Realigning Medicine
➤ Get it on Amazon or visit realigningmedicine.com -
Visioning Exercise PDF: Free download on realigningmedicine.com
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Tools: SEMrush, Fiverr for SEO analysis, ChatGPT content strategy tips
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
I scaled partiallybecause of failure, right?
I built a practice that I thought Iwanted, but it wasn't aligned with me,
and I was bored, and I needed to getout of my practices so that I can get
into the practice I wanted to be in.
I had to scale out to createresidual income, so that's why I'm
like spread all over the place.
(00:22):
I also would consider myselfneurodivergent in some ways
where I like to constantly beengaged in different things.
My mind is very A DH, D, somethingthat, you know, I've suffered
with growing up to this day.
So I, I need to be scaled sothat I'm constantly engaging my
mind because I. See business asa creative endeavor, basically.
(00:43):
It's almost like an artisticexpression, you know, playing
around and seeing how things work.
But for the first person startingout, the first thing is you have
to, I, you know, I believe there'sno scaling without congruence.
And what I mean by congruence, whichI write about in my book a lot.
Is everything has to be congruentwith you as an individual.
(01:05):
Welcome to another episode ofthe Health Coach Academy podcast.
I'm your host Omar carbadge of omar car badge.com.
So excited for you to join in today.
We have another amazing guestand he is right down the block
for me, which is shocking.
I never.
Seems to have anyone from NewYork actually jump on the show.
It seems like everybody's fromall over the place and it's really
(01:25):
good to connect with a neighbor.
His name is Dr. Jordan Barber andhe's doing really amazing things,
and I'm not gonna even give himtoo much of an introduction.
He's gonna blow you awaywith his entire story.
I know you're gonna love this episode.
He's really a fantastic guest.
And you know how I get thesefantastic guests is when you
subscribe and go on iTunes.
(01:48):
Leave ratings and reviews, and that'show they know that this show's legit.
And I can get a, a great guestjust like Dr. Barber, and he's
gonna really deliver today.
So let's jump into the show.
Hey, Dr. Barber.
How are you today?
Welcome to the show.
Hey.
Hey Omar, I'm super happy to,uh, join you and talk today.
Yeah, no, likewise.
(02:08):
So happy to have you.
Like we set off air.
Very rare that I get a NewYorker for whatever reason.
I have no idea why that works out,but it seems like all over the
country, I get all these differentguessing someone in my backyard.
I'm excited just to.
To kick it with you.
I mean, you're definitely my firstNew Yorker as well, and, and like
I was saying, you know, maybe we'rejust too busy stuck in that whole,
you know, hustle culture here.
(02:28):
Uh, maybe, maybe.
So tha thanks for taking the time tohang out with us today and yeah, I
think this episode's gonna be great.
I, I, I'm very interested in yourorigin story and I did some research
on you, and I think it's prettyfascinating what you're doing.
Just tell us how you became a doctorof acupuncture, why you ended up
in that lane, and just a little bitabout, like I said, your origin story.
(02:50):
Uh, my origin story, I could probably,we could talk forever, and I'm not even
sure if it's that interesting, but, um,you know, and I think like everyone comes
to healthcare, um, for a reason, right?
And it's something I talk aboutin my book is kind of like
finding out what your purpose is.
Um, for me, I mean, I, I grew up asa punk rocker and in the underground
(03:11):
music scene here in New York Cityand out on Long Island as well.
Um.
I was always kind of an ITperson, a very kind of a geeky.
I liked the technical stuff, butI also liked the, um, you know,
cyberpunk side of, of computers.
You know, the, you know, when I grewup in, in the nineties, um, it was
kind of like a place that you couldtinker, hack, so to speak, you know,
(03:34):
pull things apart and figure things out,which really speaks to healthcare, is
that deciphering of what's going on.
So I was attracted tothat, wound up in it.
Um.
Had a really great, uh, short it career.
Um, uh, wound up workingin the financial district.
Went through nine 11.
I was there that day.
(03:54):
Um, and I think that set off.
Kind of some things.
One, I noticed at 21 years old, myhealth was pretty much failing, which,
you know, you shouldn't fail at 21.
Now I was burning that candle atboth ends growing up the way I did.
Um, I was also like eating off of thefood carts, you know, as a, as a New
York City person, it was so convenientto just get those Jamaican beef
(04:15):
patties and hot dogs and, you know, um.
And you think you're invincible in yourtwenties, uh, had a series of health
issues, but with nine 11 happening,and, um, you know, it, it, you know,
leaving a, a mark on me, I, I, uh, Iremember crossing the Brooklyn Bridge
on foot, which I never did before.
You know, as, as New Yorkers as, you know,it's like we don't do the tourist things.
(04:38):
Not at all.
You know, like I've never been,I've been in the Empire State
Building, but I've never been to thetop of the Empire State Building.
Well, I was.
Same here.
The same, yeah.
You know, I, I was in a trade centerall the time 'cause it was literally
next door to where I worked and we'dgo to Windows on the world, which
was, you know, the rooftop bar.
Um, which I was literally therethat Friday before, um, nine 11.
(04:58):
But, uh, as I crossed the BrooklynBridge trying to escape, um,
Manhattan, um, I remember makinga promise to myself that I'm like,
I'm gonna do something that matters.
'cause I, I grew up with a verydeep kind of spiritual, um, kind
of belief system and background.
And I was losing it workingin the financial district.
Mm-hmm.
Some really great kind of earlymentors, but these were like
(05:21):
Morgan Stanley, Lehman people.
Um, and they were, you know, cutthroat,um, kind of American psycho ish,
you know, uh, mentality, which.
It has its value, but, uh, it doesnot, you know, help someone, uh, find
their purpose by any means, right?
It's, it's the antithesisof connection, right?
Um, from that I started kind oftrying to figure out and flailing
(05:45):
how to fix myself and what.
What did I really wanna do withmy life when I was a punk rocker?
You know, a 17-year-old punk rocker?
I, I wanted to be a massagetherapist and a tarot reader really.
Uh, you know, which wasa very eclectic thing.
Uh, mostly 'cause I was like reading tarotfor people all the time in high school.
And I just thought it was cool.
(06:06):
Like, I mean, if you ask anyonewho grew up with me, I was like
reading constantly any party.
I was there just reading.
'cause I thought it was fun.
So I was like, oh, I wantto do that for a career.
Um, I. Massage because, uh, being atechie, um, you know, my back was always
like a little funky and stuff sittingin computers and everything and uh, for
(06:26):
whatever reason my insurance coveredmassage therapy, so like medical massage.
So I was getting it andI sort of value of it.
I was like, this is great.
What a great way to connect with people.
Mm-hmm.
So I wound up going back toschool for massage therapy.
Um, but you know, I didn't reallythink about what that meant.
Um, in New York, it's a two yeardegree, um, where everywhere else it's
(06:50):
like 600 hour online certification.
So it, it was a good kind of like, youhad to take anatomy and physiology,
all these college level classes.
So it was kind of like an earlypre-med kind of background.
Pre pre-med, right.
Um, so from that, I, I realized Ididn't know how to run a business
and I didn't wanna work in a spa.
(07:10):
Right, because I wanted to help people.
Not that you're not helping peopleon the spot, but that just wasn't me.
You know?
Like I was a punk rocker.
I didn't wanna sit thereand listen to Enya all day.
Mm-hmm.
And you know.
Rub essential oils on people.
Also as a man, um, it's one of thecareers that, uh, there's a certain
amount of disadvantage, you know, um,of being a male massage therapist.
(07:31):
So you had to build your own thing.
So I started trying to build my ownstuff and I had a small practice, um,
splitting space with a chiropractor,but it was very difficult.
Had no clue what I was doing.
Um, you know, I continued becauseI found my love in, uh, acupuncture
and eastern medicine and, andmore integrative approaches.
So continued on, uh,into acupuncture school.
(07:54):
Uh, wound up teaching, um, uh,massage school first and eventually,
eventually acupuncture, and then,um, continuing to fail at practice.
I. Because I didn't know what the hell, Ididn't know how to make money doing this.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and you know, I'll spare allthe steps right now, but through
(08:14):
a series of multiple failures,I found out how to succeed.
Hmm.
Uh, to the point.
Now, at one point I had nine practices.
I now have four practices plusa boutique practice in Brooklyn.
Um, I'm a partner in a billing company,uh, where we also do consulting.
Um.
And, uh, I teach part-time,several published papers, um,
(08:37):
and, uh, speak everywhere.
So, you know, I, I definitelyflipped that switch and figured
out how to make it work.
Uh, you know, I do onlinetele, tele wellness.
Um, I don't call telemedicine.
'cause you know, in the coaching worldyou gotta be careful of, you know,
licenses and scope of practice issues.
Right, right.
So, you know, I mean, I could fill,fill in all those gaps, but it was
a, a journey of finding myself.
(09:00):
Um, lots of failure.
And I write about it in my book of like,you know, literally living in a 600 square
foot apartment with one of my friends,you know, um, barely making it, you know?
Um.
I was happy doing.
I didn't wanna give updoing what I was doing.
I just was poor.
Right.
You know, and I went from making a lotof money in it at a very young age to
(09:24):
suddenly selling my, my BMW for a Honda.
And honestly, Honda's a great car.
So I'm not knocking a Honda, but you know.
It was a readjustment, hanging out,you know, going to the Russian tea
room and hanging out at Windows inthe world, you know, drinking, um, you
know, top shelf, uh, alcohol to, youknow, uh, barely affording water, right.
(09:48):
It, it was, it was a long journey.
So.
No, it's definitely a, a veryinteresting one to see exactly how
all this stuff's transpired overthe course of, uh, you know, of
your career or in careers, actually.
Right.
So I, I, I guess my first questionwould be something along the lines,
like you describe your practice now, orlike the, basically how you're getting
this money, and it seems like you'redoing it in a variety of sources.
(10:11):
As a health coach who's juststarted out, what do you think is
their first step to establishingthemselves in, in their practices?
You know, first I would sayscaling isn't for everyone.
I scaled partiallybecause of failure, right?
I built a practice that Ithought I wanted, but it wasn't
aligned with me, and I was bored.
(10:33):
I. Hmm and I needed to get out ofmy practices so that I can get into
the practice I wanted to be in.
I had to scale out to createresidual income, so that's why I'm
like spread all over the place.
I also would consider myselfneurodivergent in some ways,
where I like to constantly beengaged in different things.
My mind is very A DHD.
(10:54):
It's something that, youknow, I've suffered with,
with growing up to this day.
So I, I need to be scaled sothat I'm constantly engaging my
mind because I see business asa creative endeavor, basically.
It's almost like an artisticexpression, you know, playing
around and seeing how things work.
But for the first person startingout, the first thing is you have
to, I, you know, I believe there'sno scaling without congruence.
(11:16):
And what I mean by congruence,which I write about in my book
a lot, is everything has to becongruent with you as an individual.
Um, Emerson said ne extra in Latin,which basically means to, uh,
seek within yourself for answers.
You know, I a big fan ofMarcus Aurelius and the stoics.
I, I believe finding out why you're doingthis and what you wanna do, you know, um,
(11:40):
always you wind up what I talk about inmy book coaches, coaching coaches, right?
It's like you, some people getinto coaching 'cause they just
think it's gonna be an easy job.
You know, it's not easy.
Especially when you wanna help peopleand you're, you know, the, the ethical
and moral dilemmas that come withassisting and being part of people has
a strong value part of their health.
(12:02):
Um, so this is not easy work.
Uh, so you have to find out.
I. Who you are as a practitionerand build the practice for who you
are, because people are gonna beattracted to that authenticity.
Mm-hmm.
And then when you speak, you speak fromauthenticity as opposed to, as opposed to,
um, speaking about the things you think.
(12:22):
People want to hear, youknow, what's the new trend?
I don't know.
Uh, uh, it's allergy season right now.
So we're can talk about allergies,which I mean, everyone needs help for.
I mean, pollen count today I think is likea 10 or 11 for tree pollen in New York.
It's, you could feel it inthe back of your throat even
if you don't have allergies.
Um.
In my book, I talk about a vision exerciseand something I got from my, one of my
(12:44):
first early, um, mentors in acupuncture.
And I've adapted it and it's somethingI still use to this day, is, um,
essentially just sitting there ina, you know, um, it's in my book in
length, but I also have, um, if you goto realigning medicine.com, which is my
books, uh, page, if you sign up there,you'll kind of get a, uh, PDF and it's,
(13:05):
it's in there in short form as well.
But essentially envisioningthe practice you want.
Or coaching practice that youwant, a wellness practice.
Who are the people?
What, what do they look like?
What, what does that engagement look like?
You know, is it, are you just meetingthem and then you don't hear from
'em until the next appointment?
Is there an ongoing thing?
(13:26):
Are you leading people in groups?
Um, you know, if it's an in-personpractice, what does it look like?
Because if your vision.
Is to, um, let's say you did thisvision exercise and your vision,
you see yourself, you know, wearingrobes, banging gongs, and burning
incense, which is, you know, a thing.
Right?
Absolutely.
Especially if it's moreshamanistic oriented.
(13:47):
But you wind up in a practicewearing a lab coat and is high-paced
and busy, you may be making money,but you, you're miserable inside.
Yeah, right?
And growth withoutalignment equals burnout.
Right.
So that's what I would say is find outwho you are and what you want to do,
which I think that's a loaded question.
(14:07):
Who you, who you are, right?
Yeah.
You don't have to know everythingimmediately, but where, where,
what are you yearning for?
And build that right, because youcan attract the people that you
truly want to help at that point.
No, that's great advice andit's a tough thing to do.
People take their entire livesto try to figure out exactly who
(14:28):
they are and what they wanna do.
But sometimes it's just a matter of,like you said, just sitting down and
taking the time to, to let it comethrough, you know, and that at the
end of the day is, is very effective.
It gives you what, you know, I usedthe term, I'm sure I borrowed it
from Tim Ferriss, but North Star.
Right.
And I'm sure he borrowed itfrom somewhere else, right.
It gives you a, a, a navigational point.
(14:49):
You don't have to have it perfect.
And if, if you figure out who you, youare in a single sit down, God bless.
I'm still doing it constantlyand I'm constantly looking.
But when you have a North starright, a direction of your practice.
When you start looking at things like,oh, do I wanna start doing lab testing?
Or do I wanna bring in whatever,whatever new thing, or start selling
supplements or whatever, doesthat match with that North Star?
(15:12):
Because it may seem like a good thing,and it might be a good revenue stream, but
you run the risk of diversifying to thepoint that you can't move forward, right?
If you're moving in 10 directions atonce, you have no directionality anymore.
Yeah.
So if it's aligned with your North Star,it's always moving in that same direction.
You know, so you can say no tothings, which I think is when we're
(15:33):
first starting out, is so crucial.
Learning how to say no, right?
Because you're saying yes.
'cause you're desperate for cash, whichI write about at length In my book.
I, I did that.
I had fomo.
I saw someone doing something andI was like, I gotta do that because
it looks like they're making money.
I realized I was copying failure'cause everyone seems like they're
making money and half an them aren't.
(15:53):
No, that's a good point.
But I, I, there's a guy, I'm trying to,of course, I forget his name now, but,
oh God, I wish I, I remembered his name.
He is a super popular, super famousguy, and his advice actually is the
complete opposite, where he said in thebeginning, yes to everything, and he
thought that was the tactic for him toget exposure and this and that, the other.
(16:16):
But I just find itoverwhelming when you do that.
No.
So much more powerfully.
I, I'm gonna get his name up.
I'm gonna share it in the show, I think.
I think the book is called SayYes or something like that.
It's You Ring, it's ringing a bell.
Yeah.
And it was, and I get conceptuallyYeah, that's a great idea.
If you wanna just.
Try to create opportunities, but withoutthat North star you, and, you know,
(16:37):
of course, like you, like you said,your brain works a little different.
You may be able to handle it.
Most people you can't do that.
You know?
I mean, I'm not, I, I wouldn'tsay I'm able to handle it.
I've wound up in, in placeswhere I'm like, oh my God, I
gotta, I gotta quit everything.
Right.
You know?
So, um, and part of scaling islearning to create processes.
Without my team, I would be lost.
(16:58):
You know, um, that saying yesto everything that matches
your North Star, go ahead.
Right, but saying no to everything that'swrong because let you know, let's say
you're trying to build an online coaching,you wanna do one-on-one, uh, you know,
functional medicine oriented stuff.
Mm-hmm.
You know, sounds great.
There's so many patients out there.
(17:19):
But then you get an opportunityto align with some sort of company
that's selling a product, you know,and you're like, oh, this could be
a good revenue stream because it'ssharing and I could start selling it.
Without thinking, you're actuallytaking away from your primary purpose
because instead of people bookingconsultations with you, they're, they're
now just gonna buy that supplementthat you said is really good for
headaches and making something up.
(17:41):
Well, now you just missed out on aconsultation for a $10, you know, um,
referral fee or, uh, whatever, you know.
Um, I don't know the words right now.
It's too early in the morning, but,you know, uh, whatever fee that you
get for selling the supplement andnow it's not necessarily in line.
And then.
You're not actuallyhelping people anymore.
You're selling them a supplement, asopposed to giving a, what we would
(18:02):
say, differential diagnosis, right?
Figuring out what is the rightthing for that person's headache.
Maybe it's coffee, maybeit's getting more coffee.
Maybe it's less coffee.
Maybe it's a certain herb,or maybe it's not that herb.
It's a different herb, and thatone herb that you're selling
might not help them, right?
So your North Star was reallythat you wanted to help people not
sell supplements, and now you'reactually taking away from them
(18:24):
converting into a patient, whichwas what you wanted, whereas.
Conversely, you might just wanna raiseawareness on supplements and allow
people to make, you know, have personalagency and give them enough information
to figure out the right supplement.
In which case now you'remaybe like Dr. Berg selling a
bunch of supplements, right?
Or, or Dr. Josh Acts right?
You can't get a consultation with him,but there's so much information that
(18:46):
you can kind of navigate your own path.
Mm-hmm.
So in that case, sayingno was the right thing.
Yeah.
But if someone was able to say,Hey, you wanna join us Collective,
where it's a great referral basefor patients searching, uh, for
practitioners we'll say yes.
Mm-hmm.
It's now aligned.
Right.
I don't even know if that exists.
Maybe we should create one.
Right.
But, um, so I don't disagree, butyou have to say no to the things
(19:12):
that are not aligned becauseit's not gonna be authentic.
Mm-hmm.
You're gonna be miserable.
No, no.
Makes sense.
Makes sense.
So what's your approach abouttelling a health coach to niche
down and how far should they go?
I mean, don't, what's the, the, uh,there's a phrase in Catholicism and
(19:33):
I can't remember it, but it's weird.
Like, you get over analytical aboutbeing like perfect in your belief
systems and, and conduct, I thinkit's called, uh, scrupulous, right?
Or super scrupulous, right?
Mm-hmm.
Um, you don't wanna gettoo over analytical.
Am I doing the right thing?
That's called anxiety, right?
You start with, um, that vision ofwhat you want, you start with an
(19:57):
idea of what your North Star is.
Put an asterisk subject tochange without notice, right?
Just like that, youknow, small fine print.
You can change it at any time.
Mine has changed forever.
If I was still doing the same stuff Ithought I wanted to do when I graduated,
I would be broke and I would be miserable.
You know, I built a practice I didn'twanna practice in, it's a very successful
practice, but I was like, I'm bored.
(20:19):
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Because it wasn't givingme the variety I wanted.
Um, so create that NorthStar and then start.
You know, and in my book I hadprocesses, um, where each chapter is
figuring out these things was congruent.
How are you gonna articulate it?
Right?
How do you express it?
And that, that means expressing inyour byline and your communication
(20:40):
with, with people in your social media.
I. Right.
Um, so that people hear thatauthenticity, but you're also
speaking from a place of passion.
You wanna be speaking about this.
I don't wanna speak about allergiesand actually writing my book that
I was competing to doing allergyelimination treatments because
everyone around me was doing it.
And I thought I needed to do ittoo, because I didn't have patients.
(21:01):
Mm-hmm.
And I was miserable doing it.
It was so boring for me.
Another person would love doingit, but I didn't wanna do it.
Um, you know, so you, I. You speak fromthe stuff you're interested in, which
is the same stuff you're consumingas far as content and books, so you
have an endless way to communicate.
Right, right now, you attract the peopleyou want, and that's all congruent and
(21:24):
it's in alignment with your North Star.
And then you start seeing newthings about yourself and how you're
engaging with patients, and thenyou revisit your vision again.
Hmm, I didn't think about this.
How do I engage this?
How do I further refine it?
Remember, that's the subject, withoutchange, without notice, right?
You can always redefine yourself andgrow, but it's a path of continued growth.
(21:46):
As opposed to, for lack of a betterterm, throwing shit at a wall and
seeing what sticks, which is whatmost of us do, including myself.
I've done it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I would tell you, I've doneit from a marketing perspective,
and sometimes that works.
If it's congruent, just throw stuff outthere that matches you and see what, see
what attract, and then grow upon that.
Right.
I could speak forever aboutgrowth and, and analytics and
(22:09):
data and everything else, but youneed to know where you're going.
Yeah, no, that's fair.
And I think that a lot of people getparalyzed because they, the advice
out there is niche down, be specific.
That's how you separateyourself from everybody.
And like you said, especially formyself, I have so many interests.
(22:29):
So it was always difficult forme to say, I'm just gonna stay in
this lane and carry on in this way.
And it, it could be paralyzingto the health coach starting out
because they feel like they have to.
Just stick with and makea decision right there.
And they're just not ready to do that.
And look like you're describing,most people are right.
They just, there are competinginterests in, in your life.
(22:50):
And I could definitely see why, youknow, don't get stuck there, you know?
Yeah.
Well, what I would say is like,one thing is you are already niched
down, you just don't know it.
Hmm.
It's self-awareness.
There's things you already love.
Mm-hmm.
Do those things.
Right.
Learn how to articulatethose things right.
You don't have to niche down.
(23:11):
You don't have to find your niche.
You might be like, well, I'm nichedin several things personally.
I mean, mine's across the board, butthere, my, my doctoral focus was in pain.
Um, so I am a pain expert.
I teach ortho and neuro,um, at a graduate level.
That's my thing.
So in my boutique practice.
We do pain, but pain could bemenstrual pain, could be headaches,
(23:34):
could be GI upset and pain, anythingthat's associated with pain.
So I do spread out on what pain is,not just musculoskeletal, but online
and in my tele wellness practice, I.
I do a much more functional integrativeapproach where I get to be more of the
herbalist and I get to do more laboratorytests and I get to play around there.
And that, that's a separate niche.
(23:56):
Um, you know, you don't have tosay, well, I only do pain 'cause
that's what I do and that's it.
Right?
But you get to articulate within thosechannels that you know where you're seeing
people and how you see them, your niche.
I'm much more of a general practitionerin tele wellness and being a generalist.
Is a niche.
(24:16):
Mm-hmm.
Right.
It's fine.
It's you go to the generalist whenyou say, I don't know what's going on.
Right?
That's my niche.
I'll figure it out and then ata certain point, I'm probably
gonna give you a referral.
Okay.
We've gotten you here,we've figured it out.
This one thing's remaining.
You should see this guy or this person,or this girl who is really good at sibo.
(24:41):
I'm pretty good at sibo.
I'm not gonna lie, but you know, ifI'm not doing well at it, I'm gonna be
like, this person's an expert at it.
Let's, let's go to them.
Right?
I figured it out as the generalist.
I got you to a stable pointand now I'll refer you.
And that's, that's healthcare, right?
Whereas I need the experts.
To send out to, I'm the expert in pain,but online, that doesn't translate
(25:01):
right because I need to really touchyou and I need to do a lot of, you know,
physical things to, to work on the pain.
Um, there's certain things you coulddo online to cut down inflammation,
everything else, but you know, pain issomething that's done usually in person.
So you know what you are, youjust haven't figured it out yet.
That's why I say seek inside not outside.
(25:23):
Yeah, no, that's great.
Yeah, I can't wait to, uh, checkthat PDF out and, and share
that with the audience as well.
I guess, you know, one of thethings that I know time is fine.
I can't believe we're we at aalmost a half hour mark already,
but, um, health coaches want.
Wanna get clients.
That's, that's the key toa lot of their business.
What, what suggestions would yougive to a health coach who wants to
(25:45):
get their client base just moving.
I, I'm, I'm, I'm, uh, how do I say this?
I'm, I'm choosing my words, you know?
Um.
I, I declare my bias.
I, I grew up as a punk rocker.
I'm controversial.
I always will be because I feellike when we shake things up, it
causes us to think about things.
(26:06):
Right.
Um, so I, I spent just this weekend,you know, I'm, I'm, I. Just launched
my boutique practice in, in Brooklyn,which is a casual leap practice
focused on pain and, uh, dry needling.
And specifically we're lookingat pelvic floor dysfunctions.
Super hyper niche, right?
We're getting niche ontop of niche, right?
Mm-hmm.
I started just looking at competition,competitive analysis, which
(26:29):
step one, competitive analysis.
Um, so I started using a lot of tools.
Now I have access to larger toolsthat are usually prohibitive, but you
can pay people on Fiverr to do theseanalyses for you for like 20 bucks.
'cause they have access to thetools in Dell do it for you.
So like, you know, I spent alot of time in SEMrush, which
is um, search engine marketing.
(26:50):
So major software and uh, peoplearen't trying, I. Sorry, the end.
My competitors in thearea are not on social.
And if you listen, Gary Vaynerchukgave um, a talk, um, now it's
probably about four months ago wherehe said the future is social now.
He's been saying thatsince Vine back in the day.
(27:11):
Right, right, right.
The future is social.
The end now.
Search engine marketing is done.
My ROI on search, engine placement.
Right.
Paying for AdWords is terrible now.
Mm-hmm.
It's, it's just not there.
And if you go to Google, you're gonnaget Gemini giving you a response first.
Right.
And then you're gonna get Google local.
(27:31):
You should be in localif you're local business.
Right.
That's the end.
And you should be active on your local.
Right.
You should be getting your reviews, but ifyou're not, if you're an internet based,
you know local's not gonna help you.
AI placement is the next place.
AI placement is about media.
It is about being out there onarticles, making sure that your site
(27:53):
ranks right, being creating contentthat makes sense, not just creating
social media content, but blogrelated content and everything else.
Finding out the areas that yourcompetitors aren't writing about.
And making sure that they'rein aligned with your North
Star, following your ranking.
Right.
And SEMrush now even doeschat, GPT ranking, which I
(28:13):
don't rank at all right now.
I'm very upset about that.
Um, but it's very hard for ai 'causeAI is trying to say who's important?
Who is speaking about this?
If you are not speaking aboutthis, you're not important.
The end.
And Gary is saying that you need tobe on social, and he was giving a
talk to, I think there were like oilburner people, service-based, industry
(28:35):
people, old school, brick and mortar.
Mm-hmm.
And was basically, you know, I, Ihave friends now that I, I asked
him questions like, oh, what, what'sgoing on with this restaurant?
Is that a good place?
They'll go on TikTok, youknow, I'm a Gen Xer, right?
I'm 45.
So I, while I grew up techy,like, I don't like social media.
You go on TikTok to findout what's going on.
I know, and you know, my last Disneytrip went on TikTok to find out the
(28:59):
new stuff that's going on there.
I'm like, oh wow.
And it was actually quite valuable.
Or Instagram.
Right.
You don't go on Google anymore, youjust find a bunch of blogs, and if you
do, it has to be high ranking blogsthat are writing about this stuff.
If you are not doing any of that,you are not going to succeed the end.
Most of the people, and I did acompetitive analysis of the acupuncturist
(29:21):
in Brooklyn and Lower East Side becauseI got the L train that comes across,
so it's, you know, nine minutes.
So they're competitors.
Um.
They're not trying.
And the ones that are ranking are theones that are trying, there's like
two of them and they're doing blogs.
They're getting, you know, inevery search engine, they're
making sure that, you know, theyhave their appropriate keywords.
(29:42):
Some of them are doing searchengine marketing, most of
'em are barely doing social.
Right.
Barely.
Or they're doing one channel Instagram.
Well, that's dumb.
Because TikTok is huge, right?
Facebook sucks.
But Facebook is still usedby a certain generation.
It is, yeah.
Yeah.
And they're disposable because if youlook at your market demographics and,
(30:04):
and I will say that most people aren'teven looking at their demographics.
Most of it, most people, they're spendingmoney, at least in my clinical practices,
are over the age of 40 and are female.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Okay.
So that's people thatwill be on Instagram.
Maybe on TikTok, and they'redefinitely Facebook, right?
(30:25):
So you have to figure outFacebook Meta's ecosystem and
how that plays into Instagram.
It it crosses, right?
So you have to understand that youhave to be writing content, you have
to be out there, you have to get onpodcasts, you have to get out on it.
Something that speaks to you.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
And if you're not a person thatwants to be on camera, then
you need to be writing right.
(30:46):
Get on medium, get on somelarger traction to build your
backlinks, do a backlink search.
People have none.
Or they have toxic backlinks.
Right?
These are sites that are linking to you.
Right?
And a toxic backlink is a sitethat shouldn't be linking to
you, that's actually gonnadevalue your placement in Google.
Hmm.
If you are like, I don't know whathe's talking about, ba about backlinks.
(31:08):
That's what I mean.
That you're not trying, and Idon't mean that negatively, it just
means that you're not looking yet.
You're not, you're like,why do I not have patience?
Clients 'cause you ain'tindexing, you don't exist.
Right.
Sucks.
But I'd rather hear the truth.
'cause right now my boutiquebarely, barely exists.
But I mean, I justopened it two weeks ago.
(31:30):
Right, right, right.
So, okay.
No big deal.
Now how do I exist?
Right.
So I have, I have a plan andI'm doing all organic right now.
I'm not paying for place, uh, placement.
I'm not paying for search engine keywords.
There might be a place where I'll startboosting posts on my social media.
When I think I have content thatmakes sense to convert, I'm also
(31:51):
still saying what, first I'm creatingcontent to say what is engaging.
What are the audiences interested in?
Mm-hmm.
And then I create more content downthat line providing it's congruent with
me and then I'll start boosting it.
Mm-hmm.
With the appropriateradius and everything else.
You have to do a data-driven practice.
This is still a business.
(32:11):
Right, right, right.
This is what I say, the theearly mentors from Morgan Stanley
and Lehman talking about data.
'cause we were in commercialreal estate data is king.
Right.
It's still a business at the endof the day, and if you're treating
it like a hobby, you're gonnahave a hard time getting clients.
And I don't mean that negatively,and I don't want to be like stern.
I actually really, really care aboutthis industry and I really care
(32:34):
about patients because the standardmedical system is not helping people.
Right?
Right.
And health coaches, functionalmedicine people are the people that
can make impact on people's lives.
I want people to succeed, so I'mlike, I'm urging people to try.
Yeah.
Right.
Try please, please.
I don't think your competitionwith me, because there's so many
(32:55):
patients out there, I want a bunchof people out there ranking and
indexing like that to me, excites me.
Yeah.
Right.
So, you know, I know that soundedstern, but I, I mean that from
like the bottom of my heart.
Like, please, you know, get out there.
Do it.
Don't just think as my, my mentor usedto say, you don't just hang a shingle
(33:15):
outside and expect the patients to come.
Right.
That day is long gone.
There's no foot traffic on the internet.
The foot traffic is being present.
Right, right, right.
No, listen, I, I think we needed that.
You know, so don't, I'm glad thatyou were stirring with us and I
mean, I'm not stirring with you.
I'm not stirring with anyone.
I just, I really want people to succeed.
(33:36):
Um, and it blew my mind even recently.
This is New York City, whereyou think this is the hustle.
People were barely trying.
I, I was searching foran herbalist for myself.
I wanted to say like, oh, is therea local herbalist that I could see?
Mm-hmm.
No one's ranking.
There's, I mean, it's, it's terrible.
And this is New YorkCity, right, right, right.
(33:57):
So what it's just, I, I, I can say that.
People just don't know.
You know, they don't know.
It's a new world and that'swhat's exciting though.
You should be excited that you canuse a medium that people aren't
leveraging yet in your industry.
Right.
To actually reach people that make change.
Yeah, that's, I mean, that amps me up.
(34:17):
I don't know.
That excites me.
Yeah, so I would say, mybook talks a lot about this.
Um, but at the same time,just start following people.
On YouTube, on SEO, on SEM, uh, onall these different things and just
start becoming conversant in itbecause this is the language of your
industry, whether you like it or not.
(34:38):
Right.
You're a business owner.
Yeah.
You know, you're absolutely right.
Yeah.
Listen, Dr. Barber, you've been fantastic.
Uh, please tell us where we can get thisbook and, you know, just keep up with
all the good things you're doing, uh, andsocial media handles, website, anything
that we can keep an eye and stuff.
Yeah.
My, my social media isJ Barber, L-A-C-L-A.
(35:01):
C stands for Licensed Acupuncturist.
You could find that anywhereas YouTube, TikTok, whatever.
Um, I'm more dominant onsome channels than others.
Um, then, uh, my book iscalled Realigning Medicine.
You can get it wherever books aresold, ebook, paper hardback, Amazon.
If you're anti Bezos, youcan find on Barnes and Noble.
Um, any of those places, uh,realigning medicine.com, as
(35:22):
well as the, the book page.
And my primary page is Dr.Jordan barber.com, which you
can find links to the book.
Um, I do, uh, coaching as well,and my tele wellness services.
And then Dr. Barber Clinic.
If you happen to be in New York and youhave pain, you could find me in Brooklyn.
Um, so those are all my socials and, uh.
(35:43):
You know, reach out.
I love questions, you know?
Yeah.
No, absolutely appreciateyou jumping on the show.
I, I got a lot out of it.
I'm sure the audience is gonna aswell, so have a great rest of the day.
Thanks for popping in early on the show.
Yeah, no, this is exciting.
I'm amped up for therest of the day now, so.
All right.
With that fire I'llprobably write some content.
(36:04):
It's been great, Omar.
Thank you for having me.
Like thanks.
Thanks for that jumping on.
Hope you enjoyed listeningto today's episode of the
Health Coach Academy podcast.
If you did, jump over to iTunesand leave a rating and or review.
It goes a long way in helping getthis message out to our fellow health
coaches and people in our industry Also.
(36:26):
If you can jump over to my website, omarcumberbatch.com, where I give out a lot
of freebies, including my five day sugarchallenge for people who are having issues
with sugar and also for health coaches.
I have the book hidden.
It's the six Not So Obvious Waysto get your Clients unstuck.
Have a great day.
I scaled partiallybecause of failure, right?
I built a practice that I thought Iwanted, but it wasn't aligned with me,
and I was bored, and I needed to getout of my practices so that I can get
into the practice I wanted to be in.
I had to scale out to createresidual income, so that's why I'm
like spread all over the place.
(00:22):
I also would consider myselfneurodivergent in some ways
where I like to constantly beengaged in different things.
My mind is very A DH, D, somethingthat, you know, I've suffered
with growing up to this day.
So I, I need to be scaled sothat I'm constantly engaging my
mind because I. See business asa creative endeavor, basically.
(00:43):
It's almost like an artisticexpression, you know, playing
around and seeing how things work.
But for the first person startingout, the first thing is you have
to, I, you know, I believe there'sno scaling without congruence.
And what I mean by congruence, whichI write about in my book a lot.
Is everything has to be congruentwith you as an individual.
(01:05):
Welcome to another episode ofthe Health Coach Academy podcast.
I'm your host Omar carbadge of omar car badge.com.
So excited for you to join in today.
We have another amazing guestand he is right down the block
for me, which is shocking.
I never.
Seems to have anyone from NewYork actually jump on the show.
It seems like everybody's fromall over the place and it's really
(01:25):
good to connect with a neighbor.
His name is Dr. Jordan Barber andhe's doing really amazing things,
and I'm not gonna even give himtoo much of an introduction.
He's gonna blow you awaywith his entire story.
I know you're gonna love this episode.
He's really a fantastic guest.
And you know how I get thesefantastic guests is when you
subscribe and go on iTunes.
(01:48):
Leave ratings and reviews, and that'show they know that this show's legit.
And I can get a, a great guestjust like Dr. Barber, and he's
gonna really deliver today.
So let's jump into the show.
Hey, Dr. Barber.
How are you today?
Welcome to the show.
Hey.
Hey Omar, I'm super happy to,uh, join you and talk today.
Yeah, no, likewise.
(02:08):
So happy to have you.
Like we set off air.
Very rare that I get a NewYorker for whatever reason.
I have no idea why that works out,but it seems like all over the
country, I get all these differentguessing someone in my backyard.
I'm excited just to.
To kick it with you.
I mean, you're definitely my firstNew Yorker as well, and, and like
I was saying, you know, maybe we'rejust too busy stuck in that whole,
you know, hustle culture here.
(02:28):
Uh, maybe, maybe.
So tha thanks for taking the time tohang out with us today and yeah, I
think this episode's gonna be great.
I, I, I'm very interested in yourorigin story and I did some research
on you, and I think it's prettyfascinating what you're doing.
Just tell us how you became a doctorof acupuncture, why you ended up
in that lane, and just a little bitabout, like I said, your origin story.
(02:50):
Uh, my origin story, I could probably,we could talk forever, and I'm not even
sure if it's that interesting, but, um,you know, and I think like everyone comes
to healthcare, um, for a reason, right?
And it's something I talk aboutin my book is kind of like
finding out what your purpose is.
Um, for me, I mean, I, I grew up asa punk rocker and in the underground
(03:11):
music scene here in New York Cityand out on Long Island as well.
Um.
I was always kind of an ITperson, a very kind of a geeky.
I liked the technical stuff, butI also liked the, um, you know,
cyberpunk side of, of computers.
You know, the, you know, when I grewup in, in the nineties, um, it was
kind of like a place that you couldtinker, hack, so to speak, you know,
(03:34):
pull things apart and figure things out,which really speaks to healthcare, is
that deciphering of what's going on.
So I was attracted tothat, wound up in it.
Um.
Had a really great, uh, short it career.
Um, uh, wound up workingin the financial district.
Went through nine 11.
I was there that day.
(03:54):
Um, and I think that set off.
Kind of some things.
One, I noticed at 21 years old, myhealth was pretty much failing, which,
you know, you shouldn't fail at 21.
Now I was burning that candle atboth ends growing up the way I did.
Um, I was also like eating off of thefood carts, you know, as a, as a New
York City person, it was so convenientto just get those Jamaican beef
(04:15):
patties and hot dogs and, you know, um.
And you think you're invincible in yourtwenties, uh, had a series of health
issues, but with nine 11 happening,and, um, you know, it, it, you know,
leaving a, a mark on me, I, I, uh, Iremember crossing the Brooklyn Bridge
on foot, which I never did before.
You know, as, as New Yorkers as, you know,it's like we don't do the tourist things.
(04:38):
Not at all.
You know, like I've never been,I've been in the Empire State
Building, but I've never been to thetop of the Empire State Building.
Well, I was.
Same here.
The same, yeah.
You know, I, I was in a trade centerall the time 'cause it was literally
next door to where I worked and we'dgo to Windows on the world, which
was, you know, the rooftop bar.
Um, which I was literally therethat Friday before, um, nine 11.
(04:58):
But, uh, as I crossed the BrooklynBridge trying to escape, um,
Manhattan, um, I remember makinga promise to myself that I'm like,
I'm gonna do something that matters.
'cause I, I grew up with a verydeep kind of spiritual, um, kind
of belief system and background.
And I was losing it workingin the financial district.
Mm-hmm.
Some really great kind of earlymentors, but these were like
(05:21):
Morgan Stanley, Lehman people.
Um, and they were, you know, cutthroat,um, kind of American psycho ish,
you know, uh, mentality, which.
It has its value, but, uh, it doesnot, you know, help someone, uh, find
their purpose by any means, right?
It's, it's the antithesisof connection, right?
Um, from that I started kind oftrying to figure out and flailing
(05:45):
how to fix myself and what.
What did I really wanna do withmy life when I was a punk rocker?
You know, a 17-year-old punk rocker?
I, I wanted to be a massagetherapist and a tarot reader really.
Uh, you know, which wasa very eclectic thing.
Uh, mostly 'cause I was like reading tarotfor people all the time in high school.
And I just thought it was cool.
(06:06):
Like, I mean, if you ask anyonewho grew up with me, I was like
reading constantly any party.
I was there just reading.
'cause I thought it was fun.
So I was like, oh, I wantto do that for a career.
Um, I. Massage because, uh, being atechie, um, you know, my back was always
like a little funky and stuff sittingin computers and everything and uh, for
(06:26):
whatever reason my insurance coveredmassage therapy, so like medical massage.
So I was getting it andI sort of value of it.
I was like, this is great.
What a great way to connect with people.
Mm-hmm.
So I wound up going back toschool for massage therapy.
Um, but you know, I didn't reallythink about what that meant.
Um, in New York, it's a two yeardegree, um, where everywhere else it's
(06:50):
like 600 hour online certification.
So it, it was a good kind of like, youhad to take anatomy and physiology,
all these college level classes.
So it was kind of like an earlypre-med kind of background.
Pre pre-med, right.
Um, so from that, I, I realized Ididn't know how to run a business
and I didn't wanna work in a spa.
(07:10):
Right, because I wanted to help people.
Not that you're not helping peopleon the spot, but that just wasn't me.
You know?
Like I was a punk rocker.
I didn't wanna sit thereand listen to Enya all day.
Mm-hmm.
And you know.
Rub essential oils on people.
Also as a man, um, it's one of thecareers that, uh, there's a certain
amount of disadvantage, you know, um,of being a male massage therapist.
(07:31):
So you had to build your own thing.
So I started trying to build my ownstuff and I had a small practice, um,
splitting space with a chiropractor,but it was very difficult.
Had no clue what I was doing.
Um, you know, I continued becauseI found my love in, uh, acupuncture
and eastern medicine and, andmore integrative approaches.
So continued on, uh,into acupuncture school.
(07:54):
Uh, wound up teaching, um, uh,massage school first and eventually,
eventually acupuncture, and then,um, continuing to fail at practice.
I. Because I didn't know what the hell, Ididn't know how to make money doing this.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and you know, I'll spare allthe steps right now, but through
(08:14):
a series of multiple failures,I found out how to succeed.
Hmm.
Uh, to the point.
Now, at one point I had nine practices.
I now have four practices plusa boutique practice in Brooklyn.
Um, I'm a partner in a billing company,uh, where we also do consulting.
Um.
And, uh, I teach part-time,several published papers, um,
(08:37):
and, uh, speak everywhere.
So, you know, I, I definitelyflipped that switch and figured
out how to make it work.
Uh, you know, I do onlinetele, tele wellness.
Um, I don't call telemedicine.
'cause you know, in the coaching worldyou gotta be careful of, you know,
licenses and scope of practice issues.
Right, right.
So, you know, I mean, I could fill,fill in all those gaps, but it was
a, a journey of finding myself.
(09:00):
Um, lots of failure.
And I write about it in my book of like,you know, literally living in a 600 square
foot apartment with one of my friends,you know, um, barely making it, you know?
Um.
I was happy doing.
I didn't wanna give updoing what I was doing.
I just was poor.
Right.
You know, and I went from making a lotof money in it at a very young age to
(09:24):
suddenly selling my, my BMW for a Honda.
And honestly, Honda's a great car.
So I'm not knocking a Honda, but you know.
It was a readjustment, hanging out,you know, going to the Russian tea
room and hanging out at Windows inthe world, you know, drinking, um, you
know, top shelf, uh, alcohol to, youknow, uh, barely affording water, right.
(09:48):
It, it was, it was a long journey.
So.
No, it's definitely a, a veryinteresting one to see exactly how
all this stuff's transpired overthe course of, uh, you know, of
your career or in careers, actually.
Right.
So I, I, I guess my first questionwould be something along the lines,
like you describe your practice now, orlike the, basically how you're getting
this money, and it seems like you'redoing it in a variety of sources.
(10:11):
As a health coach who's juststarted out, what do you think is
their first step to establishingthemselves in, in their practices?
You know, first I would sayscaling isn't for everyone.
I scaled partiallybecause of failure, right?
I built a practice that Ithought I wanted, but it wasn't
aligned with me, and I was bored.
(10:33):
I. Hmm and I needed to get out ofmy practices so that I can get into
the practice I wanted to be in.
I had to scale out to createresidual income, so that's why I'm
like spread all over the place.
I also would consider myselfneurodivergent in some ways,
where I like to constantly beengaged in different things.
My mind is very A DHD.
(10:54):
It's something that, youknow, I've suffered with,
with growing up to this day.
So I, I need to be scaled sothat I'm constantly engaging my
mind because I see business asa creative endeavor, basically.
It's almost like an artisticexpression, you know, playing
around and seeing how things work.
But for the first person startingout, the first thing is you have
to, I, you know, I believe there'sno scaling without congruence.
(11:16):
And what I mean by congruence,which I write about in my book
a lot, is everything has to becongruent with you as an individual.
Um, Emerson said ne extra in Latin,which basically means to, uh,
seek within yourself for answers.
You know, I a big fan ofMarcus Aurelius and the stoics.
I, I believe finding out why you're doingthis and what you wanna do, you know, um,
(11:40):
always you wind up what I talk about inmy book coaches, coaching coaches, right?
It's like you, some people getinto coaching 'cause they just
think it's gonna be an easy job.
You know, it's not easy.
Especially when you wanna help peopleand you're, you know, the, the ethical
and moral dilemmas that come withassisting and being part of people has
a strong value part of their health.
(12:02):
Um, so this is not easy work.
Uh, so you have to find out.
I. Who you are as a practitionerand build the practice for who you
are, because people are gonna beattracted to that authenticity.
Mm-hmm.
And then when you speak, you speak fromauthenticity as opposed to, as opposed to,
um, speaking about the things you think.
(12:22):
People want to hear, youknow, what's the new trend?
I don't know.
Uh, uh, it's allergy season right now.
So we're can talk about allergies,which I mean, everyone needs help for.
I mean, pollen count today I think is likea 10 or 11 for tree pollen in New York.
It's, you could feel it inthe back of your throat even
if you don't have allergies.
Um.
In my book, I talk about a vision exerciseand something I got from my, one of my
(12:44):
first early, um, mentors in acupuncture.
And I've adapted it and it's somethingI still use to this day, is, um,
essentially just sitting there ina, you know, um, it's in my book in
length, but I also have, um, if you goto realigning medicine.com, which is my
books, uh, page, if you sign up there,you'll kind of get a, uh, PDF and it's,
(13:05):
it's in there in short form as well.
But essentially envisioningthe practice you want.
Or coaching practice that youwant, a wellness practice.
Who are the people?
What, what do they look like?
What, what does that engagement look like?
You know, is it, are you just meetingthem and then you don't hear from
'em until the next appointment?
Is there an ongoing thing?
(13:26):
Are you leading people in groups?
Um, you know, if it's an in-personpractice, what does it look like?
Because if your vision.
Is to, um, let's say you did thisvision exercise and your vision,
you see yourself, you know, wearingrobes, banging gongs, and burning
incense, which is, you know, a thing.
Right?
Absolutely.
Especially if it's moreshamanistic oriented.
(13:47):
But you wind up in a practicewearing a lab coat and is high-paced
and busy, you may be making money,but you, you're miserable inside.
Yeah, right?
And growth withoutalignment equals burnout.
Right.
So that's what I would say is find outwho you are and what you want to do,
which I think that's a loaded question.
(14:07):
Who you, who you are, right?
Yeah.
You don't have to know everythingimmediately, but where, where,
what are you yearning for?
And build that right, because youcan attract the people that you
truly want to help at that point.
No, that's great advice andit's a tough thing to do.
People take their entire livesto try to figure out exactly who
(14:28):
they are and what they wanna do.
But sometimes it's just a matter of,like you said, just sitting down and
taking the time to, to let it comethrough, you know, and that at the
end of the day is, is very effective.
It gives you what, you know, I usedthe term, I'm sure I borrowed it
from Tim Ferriss, but North Star.
Right.
And I'm sure he borrowed itfrom somewhere else, right.
It gives you a, a, a navigational point.
(14:49):
You don't have to have it perfect.
And if, if you figure out who you, youare in a single sit down, God bless.
I'm still doing it constantlyand I'm constantly looking.
But when you have a North starright, a direction of your practice.
When you start looking at things like,oh, do I wanna start doing lab testing?
Or do I wanna bring in whatever,whatever new thing, or start selling
supplements or whatever, doesthat match with that North Star?
(15:12):
Because it may seem like a good thing,and it might be a good revenue stream, but
you run the risk of diversifying to thepoint that you can't move forward, right?
If you're moving in 10 directions atonce, you have no directionality anymore.
Yeah.
So if it's aligned with your North Star,it's always moving in that same direction.
You know, so you can say no tothings, which I think is when we're
(15:33):
first starting out, is so crucial.
Learning how to say no, right?
Because you're saying yes.
'cause you're desperate for cash, whichI write about at length In my book.
I, I did that.
I had fomo.
I saw someone doing something andI was like, I gotta do that because
it looks like they're making money.
I realized I was copying failure'cause everyone seems like they're
making money and half an them aren't.
(15:53):
No, that's a good point.
But I, I, there's a guy, I'm trying to,of course, I forget his name now, but,
oh God, I wish I, I remembered his name.
He is a super popular, super famousguy, and his advice actually is the
complete opposite, where he said in thebeginning, yes to everything, and he
thought that was the tactic for him toget exposure and this and that, the other.
(16:16):
But I just find itoverwhelming when you do that.
No.
So much more powerfully.
I, I'm gonna get his name up.
I'm gonna share it in the show, I think.
I think the book is called SayYes or something like that.
It's You Ring, it's ringing a bell.
Yeah.
And it was, and I get conceptuallyYeah, that's a great idea.
If you wanna just.
Try to create opportunities, but withoutthat North star you, and, you know,
(16:37):
of course, like you, like you said,your brain works a little different.
You may be able to handle it.
Most people you can't do that.
You know?
I mean, I'm not, I, I wouldn'tsay I'm able to handle it.
I've wound up in, in placeswhere I'm like, oh my God, I
gotta, I gotta quit everything.
Right.
You know?
So, um, and part of scaling islearning to create processes.
Without my team, I would be lost.
(16:58):
You know, um, that saying yesto everything that matches
your North Star, go ahead.
Right, but saying no to everything that'swrong because let you know, let's say
you're trying to build an online coaching,you wanna do one-on-one, uh, you know,
functional medicine oriented stuff.
Mm-hmm.
You know, sounds great.
There's so many patients out there.
(17:19):
But then you get an opportunityto align with some sort of company
that's selling a product, you know,and you're like, oh, this could be
a good revenue stream because it'ssharing and I could start selling it.
Without thinking, you're actuallytaking away from your primary purpose
because instead of people bookingconsultations with you, they're, they're
now just gonna buy that supplementthat you said is really good for
headaches and making something up.
(17:41):
Well, now you just missed out on aconsultation for a $10, you know, um,
referral fee or, uh, whatever, you know.
Um, I don't know the words right now.
It's too early in the morning, but,you know, uh, whatever fee that you
get for selling the supplement andnow it's not necessarily in line.
And then.
You're not actuallyhelping people anymore.
You're selling them a supplement, asopposed to giving a, what we would
(18:02):
say, differential diagnosis, right?
Figuring out what is the rightthing for that person's headache.
Maybe it's coffee, maybeit's getting more coffee.
Maybe it's less coffee.
Maybe it's a certain herb,or maybe it's not that herb.
It's a different herb, and thatone herb that you're selling
might not help them, right?
So your North Star was reallythat you wanted to help people not
sell supplements, and now you'reactually taking away from them
(18:24):
converting into a patient, whichwas what you wanted, whereas.
Conversely, you might just wanna raiseawareness on supplements and allow
people to make, you know, have personalagency and give them enough information
to figure out the right supplement.
In which case now you'remaybe like Dr. Berg selling a
bunch of supplements, right?
Or, or Dr. Josh Acts right?
You can't get a consultation with him,but there's so much information that
(18:46):
you can kind of navigate your own path.
Mm-hmm.
So in that case, sayingno was the right thing.
Yeah.
But if someone was able to say,Hey, you wanna join us Collective,
where it's a great referral basefor patients searching, uh, for
practitioners we'll say yes.
Mm-hmm.
It's now aligned.
Right.
I don't even know if that exists.
Maybe we should create one.
Right.
But, um, so I don't disagree, butyou have to say no to the things
(19:12):
that are not aligned becauseit's not gonna be authentic.
Mm-hmm.
You're gonna be miserable.
No, no.
Makes sense.
Makes sense.
So what's your approach abouttelling a health coach to niche
down and how far should they go?
I mean, don't, what's the, the, uh,there's a phrase in Catholicism and
(19:33):
I can't remember it, but it's weird.
Like, you get over analytical aboutbeing like perfect in your belief
systems and, and conduct, I thinkit's called, uh, scrupulous, right?
Or super scrupulous, right?
Mm-hmm.
Um, you don't wanna gettoo over analytical.
Am I doing the right thing?
That's called anxiety, right?
You start with, um, that vision ofwhat you want, you start with an
(19:57):
idea of what your North Star is.
Put an asterisk subject tochange without notice, right?
Just like that, youknow, small fine print.
You can change it at any time.
Mine has changed forever.
If I was still doing the same stuff Ithought I wanted to do when I graduated,
I would be broke and I would be miserable.
You know, I built a practice I didn'twanna practice in, it's a very successful
practice, but I was like, I'm bored.
(20:19):
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Because it wasn't givingme the variety I wanted.
Um, so create that NorthStar and then start.
You know, and in my book I hadprocesses, um, where each chapter is
figuring out these things was congruent.
How are you gonna articulate it?
Right?
How do you express it?
And that, that means expressing inyour byline and your communication
(20:40):
with, with people in your social media.
I. Right.
Um, so that people hear thatauthenticity, but you're also
speaking from a place of passion.
You wanna be speaking about this.
I don't wanna speak about allergiesand actually writing my book that
I was competing to doing allergyelimination treatments because
everyone around me was doing it.
And I thought I needed to do ittoo, because I didn't have patients.
(21:01):
Mm-hmm.
And I was miserable doing it.
It was so boring for me.
Another person would love doingit, but I didn't wanna do it.
Um, you know, so you, I. You speak fromthe stuff you're interested in, which
is the same stuff you're consumingas far as content and books, so you
have an endless way to communicate.
Right, right now, you attract the peopleyou want, and that's all congruent and
(21:24):
it's in alignment with your North Star.
And then you start seeing newthings about yourself and how you're
engaging with patients, and thenyou revisit your vision again.
Hmm, I didn't think about this.
How do I engage this?
How do I further refine it?
Remember, that's the subject, withoutchange, without notice, right?
You can always redefine yourself andgrow, but it's a path of continued growth.
(21:46):
As opposed to, for lack of a betterterm, throwing shit at a wall and
seeing what sticks, which is whatmost of us do, including myself.
I've done it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I would tell you, I've doneit from a marketing perspective,
and sometimes that works.
If it's congruent, just throw stuff outthere that matches you and see what, see
what attract, and then grow upon that.
Right.
I could speak forever aboutgrowth and, and analytics and
(22:09):
data and everything else, but youneed to know where you're going.
Yeah, no, that's fair.
And I think that a lot of people getparalyzed because they, the advice
out there is niche down, be specific.
That's how you separateyourself from everybody.
And like you said, especially formyself, I have so many interests.
(22:29):
So it was always difficult forme to say, I'm just gonna stay in
this lane and carry on in this way.
And it, it could be paralyzingto the health coach starting out
because they feel like they have to.
Just stick with and makea decision right there.
And they're just not ready to do that.
And look like you're describing,most people are right.
They just, there are competinginterests in, in your life.
(22:50):
And I could definitely see why, youknow, don't get stuck there, you know?
Yeah.
Well, what I would say is like,one thing is you are already niched
down, you just don't know it.
Hmm.
It's self-awareness.
There's things you already love.
Mm-hmm.
Do those things.
Right.
Learn how to articulatethose things right.
You don't have to niche down.
(23:11):
You don't have to find your niche.
You might be like, well, I'm nichedin several things personally.
I mean, mine's across the board, butthere, my, my doctoral focus was in pain.
Um, so I am a pain expert.
I teach ortho and neuro,um, at a graduate level.
That's my thing.
So in my boutique practice.
We do pain, but pain could bemenstrual pain, could be headaches,
(23:34):
could be GI upset and pain, anythingthat's associated with pain.
So I do spread out on what pain is,not just musculoskeletal, but online
and in my tele wellness practice, I.
I do a much more functional integrativeapproach where I get to be more of the
herbalist and I get to do more laboratorytests and I get to play around there.
And that, that's a separate niche.
(23:56):
Um, you know, you don't have tosay, well, I only do pain 'cause
that's what I do and that's it.
Right?
But you get to articulate within thosechannels that you know where you're seeing
people and how you see them, your niche.
I'm much more of a general practitionerin tele wellness and being a generalist.
Is a niche.
(24:16):
Mm-hmm.
Right.
It's fine.
It's you go to the generalist whenyou say, I don't know what's going on.
Right?
That's my niche.
I'll figure it out and then ata certain point, I'm probably
gonna give you a referral.
Okay.
We've gotten you here,we've figured it out.
This one thing's remaining.
You should see this guy or this person,or this girl who is really good at sibo.
(24:41):
I'm pretty good at sibo.
I'm not gonna lie, but you know, ifI'm not doing well at it, I'm gonna be
like, this person's an expert at it.
Let's, let's go to them.
Right?
I figured it out as the generalist.
I got you to a stable pointand now I'll refer you.
And that's, that's healthcare, right?
Whereas I need the experts.
To send out to, I'm the expert in pain,but online, that doesn't translate
(25:01):
right because I need to really touchyou and I need to do a lot of, you know,
physical things to, to work on the pain.
Um, there's certain things you coulddo online to cut down inflammation,
everything else, but you know, pain issomething that's done usually in person.
So you know what you are, youjust haven't figured it out yet.
That's why I say seek inside not outside.
(25:23):
Yeah, no, that's great.
Yeah, I can't wait to, uh, checkthat PDF out and, and share
that with the audience as well.
I guess, you know, one of thethings that I know time is fine.
I can't believe we're we at aalmost a half hour mark already,
but, um, health coaches want.
Wanna get clients.
That's, that's the key toa lot of their business.
What, what suggestions would yougive to a health coach who wants to
(25:45):
get their client base just moving.
I, I'm, I'm, I'm, uh, how do I say this?
I'm, I'm choosing my words, you know?
Um.
I, I declare my bias.
I, I grew up as a punk rocker.
I'm controversial.
I always will be because I feellike when we shake things up, it
causes us to think about things.
(26:06):
Right.
Um, so I, I spent just this weekend,you know, I'm, I'm, I. Just launched
my boutique practice in, in Brooklyn,which is a casual leap practice
focused on pain and, uh, dry needling.
And specifically we're lookingat pelvic floor dysfunctions.
Super hyper niche, right?
We're getting niche ontop of niche, right?
Mm-hmm.
I started just looking at competition,competitive analysis, which
(26:29):
step one, competitive analysis.
Um, so I started using a lot of tools.
Now I have access to larger toolsthat are usually prohibitive, but you
can pay people on Fiverr to do theseanalyses for you for like 20 bucks.
'cause they have access to thetools in Dell do it for you.
So like, you know, I spent alot of time in SEMrush, which
is um, search engine marketing.
(26:50):
So major software and uh, peoplearen't trying, I. Sorry, the end.
My competitors in thearea are not on social.
And if you listen, Gary Vaynerchukgave um, a talk, um, now it's
probably about four months ago wherehe said the future is social now.
He's been saying thatsince Vine back in the day.
(27:11):
Right, right, right.
The future is social.
The end now.
Search engine marketing is done.
My ROI on search, engine placement.
Right.
Paying for AdWords is terrible now.
Mm-hmm.
It's, it's just not there.
And if you go to Google, you're gonnaget Gemini giving you a response first.
Right.
And then you're gonna get Google local.
(27:31):
You should be in localif you're local business.
Right.
That's the end.
And you should be active on your local.
Right.
You should be getting your reviews, but ifyou're not, if you're an internet based,
you know local's not gonna help you.
AI placement is the next place.
AI placement is about media.
It is about being out there onarticles, making sure that your site
(27:53):
ranks right, being creating contentthat makes sense, not just creating
social media content, but blogrelated content and everything else.
Finding out the areas that yourcompetitors aren't writing about.
And making sure that they'rein aligned with your North
Star, following your ranking.
Right.
And SEMrush now even doeschat, GPT ranking, which I
(28:13):
don't rank at all right now.
I'm very upset about that.
Um, but it's very hard for ai 'causeAI is trying to say who's important?
Who is speaking about this?
If you are not speaking aboutthis, you're not important.
The end.
And Gary is saying that you need tobe on social, and he was giving a
talk to, I think there were like oilburner people, service-based, industry
(28:35):
people, old school, brick and mortar.
Mm-hmm.
And was basically, you know, I, Ihave friends now that I, I asked
him questions like, oh, what, what'sgoing on with this restaurant?
Is that a good place?
They'll go on TikTok, youknow, I'm a Gen Xer, right?
I'm 45.
So I, while I grew up techy,like, I don't like social media.
You go on TikTok to findout what's going on.
I know, and you know, my last Disneytrip went on TikTok to find out the
(28:59):
new stuff that's going on there.
I'm like, oh wow.
And it was actually quite valuable.
Or Instagram.
Right.
You don't go on Google anymore, youjust find a bunch of blogs, and if you
do, it has to be high ranking blogsthat are writing about this stuff.
If you are not doing any of that,you are not going to succeed the end.
Most of the people, and I did acompetitive analysis of the acupuncturist
(29:21):
in Brooklyn and Lower East Side becauseI got the L train that comes across,
so it's, you know, nine minutes.
So they're competitors.
Um.
They're not trying.
And the ones that are ranking are theones that are trying, there's like
two of them and they're doing blogs.
They're getting, you know, inevery search engine, they're
making sure that, you know, theyhave their appropriate keywords.
(29:42):
Some of them are doing searchengine marketing, most of
'em are barely doing social.
Right.
Barely.
Or they're doing one channel Instagram.
Well, that's dumb.
Because TikTok is huge, right?
Facebook sucks.
But Facebook is still usedby a certain generation.
It is, yeah.
Yeah.
And they're disposable because if youlook at your market demographics and,
(30:04):
and I will say that most people aren'teven looking at their demographics.
Most of it, most people, they're spendingmoney, at least in my clinical practices,
are over the age of 40 and are female.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Okay.
So that's people thatwill be on Instagram.
Maybe on TikTok, and they'redefinitely Facebook, right?
(30:25):
So you have to figure outFacebook Meta's ecosystem and
how that plays into Instagram.
It it crosses, right?
So you have to understand that youhave to be writing content, you have
to be out there, you have to get onpodcasts, you have to get out on it.
Something that speaks to you.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
And if you're not a person thatwants to be on camera, then
you need to be writing right.
(30:46):
Get on medium, get on somelarger traction to build your
backlinks, do a backlink search.
People have none.
Or they have toxic backlinks.
Right?
These are sites that are linking to you.
Right?
And a toxic backlink is a sitethat shouldn't be linking to
you, that's actually gonnadevalue your placement in Google.
Hmm.
If you are like, I don't know whathe's talking about, ba about backlinks.
(31:08):
That's what I mean.
That you're not trying, and Idon't mean that negatively, it just
means that you're not looking yet.
You're not, you're like,why do I not have patience?
Clients 'cause you ain'tindexing, you don't exist.
Right.
Sucks.
But I'd rather hear the truth.
'cause right now my boutiquebarely, barely exists.
But I mean, I justopened it two weeks ago.
(31:30):
Right, right, right.
So, okay.
No big deal.
Now how do I exist?
Right.
So I have, I have a plan andI'm doing all organic right now.
I'm not paying for place, uh, placement.
I'm not paying for search engine keywords.
There might be a place where I'll startboosting posts on my social media.
When I think I have content thatmakes sense to convert, I'm also
(31:51):
still saying what, first I'm creatingcontent to say what is engaging.
What are the audiences interested in?
Mm-hmm.
And then I create more content downthat line providing it's congruent with
me and then I'll start boosting it.
Mm-hmm.
With the appropriateradius and everything else.
You have to do a data-driven practice.
This is still a business.
(32:11):
Right, right, right.
This is what I say, the theearly mentors from Morgan Stanley
and Lehman talking about data.
'cause we were in commercialreal estate data is king.
Right.
It's still a business at the endof the day, and if you're treating
it like a hobby, you're gonnahave a hard time getting clients.
And I don't mean that negatively,and I don't want to be like stern.
I actually really, really care aboutthis industry and I really care
(32:34):
about patients because the standardmedical system is not helping people.
Right?
Right.
And health coaches, functionalmedicine people are the people that
can make impact on people's lives.
I want people to succeed, so I'mlike, I'm urging people to try.
Yeah.
Right.
Try please, please.
I don't think your competitionwith me, because there's so many
(32:55):
patients out there, I want a bunchof people out there ranking and
indexing like that to me, excites me.
Yeah.
Right.
So, you know, I know that soundedstern, but I, I mean that from
like the bottom of my heart.
Like, please, you know, get out there.
Do it.
Don't just think as my, my mentor usedto say, you don't just hang a shingle
(33:15):
outside and expect the patients to come.
Right.
That day is long gone.
There's no foot traffic on the internet.
The foot traffic is being present.
Right, right, right.
No, listen, I, I think we needed that.
You know, so don't, I'm glad thatyou were stirring with us and I
mean, I'm not stirring with you.
I'm not stirring with anyone.
I just, I really want people to succeed.
(33:36):
Um, and it blew my mind even recently.
This is New York City, whereyou think this is the hustle.
People were barely trying.
I, I was searching foran herbalist for myself.
I wanted to say like, oh, is therea local herbalist that I could see?
Mm-hmm.
No one's ranking.
There's, I mean, it's, it's terrible.
And this is New YorkCity, right, right, right.
(33:57):
So what it's just, I, I, I can say that.
People just don't know.
You know, they don't know.
It's a new world and that'swhat's exciting though.
You should be excited that you canuse a medium that people aren't
leveraging yet in your industry.
Right.
To actually reach people that make change.
Yeah, that's, I mean, that amps me up.
(34:17):
I don't know.
That excites me.
Yeah, so I would say, mybook talks a lot about this.
Um, but at the same time,just start following people.
On YouTube, on SEO, on SEM, uh, onall these different things and just
start becoming conversant in itbecause this is the language of your
industry, whether you like it or not.
(34:38):
Right.
You're a business owner.
Yeah.
You know, you're absolutely right.
Yeah.
Listen, Dr. Barber, you've been fantastic.
Uh, please tell us where we can get thisbook and, you know, just keep up with
all the good things you're doing, uh, andsocial media handles, website, anything
that we can keep an eye and stuff.
Yeah.
My, my social media isJ Barber, L-A-C-L-A.
(35:01):
C stands for Licensed Acupuncturist.
You could find that anywhereas YouTube, TikTok, whatever.
Um, I'm more dominant onsome channels than others.
Um, then, uh, my book iscalled Realigning Medicine.
You can get it wherever books aresold, ebook, paper hardback, Amazon.
If you're anti Bezos, youcan find on Barnes and Noble.
Um, any of those places, uh,realigning medicine.com, as
(35:22):
well as the, the book page.
And my primary page is Dr.Jordan barber.com, which you
can find links to the book.
Um, I do, uh, coaching as well,and my tele wellness services.
And then Dr. Barber Clinic.
If you happen to be in New York and youhave pain, you could find me in Brooklyn.
Um, so those are all my socials and, uh.
(35:43):
You know, reach out.
I love questions, you know?
Yeah.
No, absolutely appreciateyou jumping on the show.
I, I got a lot out of it.
I'm sure the audience is gonna aswell, so have a great rest of the day.
Thanks for popping in early on the show.
Yeah, no, this is exciting.
I'm amped up for therest of the day now, so.
All right.
With that fire I'llprobably write some content.
(36:04):
It's been great, Omar.
Thank you for having me.
Like thanks.
Thanks for that jumping on.
Hope you enjoyed listeningto today's episode of the
Health Coach Academy podcast.
If you did, jump over to iTunesand leave a rating and or review.
It goes a long way in helping getthis message out to our fellow health
coaches and people in our industry Also.
(36:26):
If you can jump over to my website, omarcumberbatch.com, where I give out a lot
of freebies, including my five day sugarchallenge for people who are having issues
with sugar and also for health coaches.
I have the book hidden.
It's the six Not So Obvious Waysto get your Clients unstuck.
Have a great day.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.