August 22, 2023 • 34 mins
Join us in welcoming Ashley Warren, the passionate COO of Downs Books Incorporated, as we pull back the curtain on the art of fostering healthy team dynamics and cultivating a thriving work culture. We'll take you on a journey through our shared experiences, unearthing the joy and challenges of leading a team towards a unified vision. Ashley's insights, born out of her role in supporting Annie F. Downs and years of building healthy cultures, are a refreshing view into the heart and mind of a true team leader.
Ashley and Jenni dive headfirst into the complex world of team dynamics, providing a roadmap on how to strike a balance between a shared vision and the unique interplay of personalities within a team. We'll lend you our lenses, showing you the value of slowing down to truly appreciate the individuals within your team and the importance of understanding how the team is feeling. Together, we'll explore the delicate balance between transparency and accountability, and the powerful impact of setting clear expectations alongside regular check-ins.
Wrapping up our conversation, Ashley shares her growth journey as a leader, revealing valuable lessons she's picked up along the ride. She emphasizes the importance of understanding your team members on a personal level, a strategy that has helped her team reach their full potential.
About Ashley
Ashley Warren is the Chief Operating Officer of Downs Books, Inc., a media company based in Nashville, TN. Combining the communications, culture and team-building experience she gained as an educator and the Director of Employee Culture at a large multi-site church, she now leads the team that supports the work of author, speaker, podcaster Annie F. Downs. Ashley is passionate about creating a culture of clarity and care that allows every team member space to thrive.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jenni Catron (00:10):
Hey, friends, I'm your host, Jenni Catron, and
this is the Lead Culture Podcast, where I coach you to lead
yourself well so you can leadothers better.
My team and I at the 4sightGroup are committed to building
confident leaders, extraordinaryteams and thriving cultures.
(00:30):
Each week, we'll take a deepdive into a leadership or
culture topic that will give youthe tools you need to lead with
clarity and confidence andbuild a thriving team.
Now, friends, today you aregetting to kind of sit in on two
really dear friends having ajust, thoughtful conversation
(00:52):
around our heart for teams, ourheart for building healthy teams
.
You're going to hear from mydear, dear friend, Ashley Warren
.
Ashley is the Chief OperatingOfficer of Downs Books
Incorporated, a media companybased in Nashville, tennessee,
combining the communicationsculture and team building
(01:12):
experience she gained as aneducator and then the Director
of Employee Culture at a largemulti-site church.
That's where we worked together.
Ashley now leads the team thatsupports the work of author
speaker, podcaster Annie F.
Downs.
I know, you all know Annie.
Annie is a fan, longtime friend, a phenomenal leader and
(01:34):
somebody you need to belistening to for sure.
Now Ashley is passionate aboutcreating a culture of clarity
and care that allows every teammember space to thrive, and
that's what you're going to hearfrom our conversation today.
I wanted to have Ashley on thepodcast.
You'll hear a bit of ourbackstory.
We've worked together in acouple of different capacities.
(01:55):
She was with us on the team at4sight for a bit.
We worked for eight or nineyears together at a mega church
in Nashville, and in thoseseasons we had such a unique
opportunity to really shapeculture together and learn
together as we go.
So much of the lead cultureframework that I reference and
(02:17):
that we do when we're workingwith organizations was really
birthed in those years at thechurch in Nashville, and so
Ashley was right there with meas we were figuring some of that
out, and so you're going tohear us talk about some of those
moments and those memories ofjust kind of finding our way
through the importance ofbuilding healthy culture,
(02:38):
healthy team, and you're goingto love Ashley's heart.
Her heart for the care of ateam is none other, and so she
just provides some valuableinsight into how to think about
the care of your team as aleader.
So here's my conversation withmy dear friend Ashley Warren Ash
(03:05):
, how fun to have you back onthe podcast.
You were actually on thepodcast away.
It feels like a long time ago.
Ashley Warren (03:12):
It's been a little bit, it has been a long
time ago.
I'm so, I'm so honored to behere.
Jenni Catron (03:16):
Well, anytime you and I get time to catch up, like
we we spent a lot of time prerecording like all the catch up
on life and and all the things.
But I but I love talkingculture with you and I really
was excited for the listeners tojust kind of hear an update on
where you are Cause I think whenyou were on the podcast last
might have been when you weredoing some work with us at
(03:38):
foresight, doing some of theculture workshops with us, I
think you're right.
And then our dear friend AnnieF Downs stole you and you joined
her team as the chief operatingofficer, which I'm like, it's
true, it was a good, it was agood move.
Ashley Warren (03:51):
Like selfishly, I like to keep you around, but
that's a good move, one of thethings you know I learned in in
a season of transition and doingsome freelance work and sitting
kind of with a really beautifulopportunity to sit with two
teams at once your team andAnnie's team, kind of just
(04:16):
having to come face to face withthe self awareness that I'm
built to be on one team and toplant myself and focus in
support of one vision.
And that, of course, involvesletting go in some places that
you know.
I mean.
What fun to have been involvedin those years, at foresight and
(04:40):
and knowing that neitherorganization was getting the
best of me when I was feelingdivided.
Jenni Catron (04:48):
So it was hard letting go.
Ashley Warren (04:49):
And also Look at us now, Jen.
Jenni Catron (04:53):
I mean that's a thing I talk to leaders all the
time about is, you know, like,being open-handed with, like, of
course we want to attract andretain the best people and build
amazing teams, but there's alsothat recognition of seasons and
you and I have had theprivilege of working with each
other in a couple of differentseasons and now we just work
with you in a little bitdifferent capacity because, you
(05:14):
know, again, annie's a greatfriend and we're champions of
what you guys do and vice versa.
And just being open-handed aboutrecognizing that God moves
people on in some seasons andjust being confident that you
know, as we as we follow, thatlike his faithfulness in that
journey and, like you said, foryou, that recognition and
(05:37):
self-awareness of a, you know,being full-time on a team,
giving that focused energy, ishow you work best and that's
absolutely true.
And so like, for me it is suchjoy to watch you thrive and
flourish and lead that team sowell.
So it's I mean I joke, but Ifully like, believe that it's
(05:58):
the right seat for you right now.
So, thank you, tell everybodyabout your role at Annie F or
it's Downs Books.
Technically, yes, tell us aboutbeing chief operating officer
at Downs Books.
Ashley Warren (06:09):
Yeah.
So as the COO at Downs Books,we are a media company in
support of Annie F Downs as anauthor, speaker and podcaster,
among other things.
She wears multiple hats thisone and so she has been a
published author for over adecade and just writes beautiful
(06:34):
memoir type you know,faith-based books.
And then she has, you know, anamazing podcast called that
Sounds Fun.
Yes, and then this yearlaunched a second podcast called
let's Read the Gospels, whichis a really, really beautiful
project to be a part of.
(06:54):
And then she does live eventsand touring all over the place.
We toured in June I got to gowith her.
It was so fun and importantthat the touch base with the
people on the other side of ourwork getting a face-to-face time
with them and getting to heartheir stories and see what you
(07:15):
know makes them come alive in aroom together just priceless.
So my day-to-day is serving theteam that I'm just cuckoo about
.
We have an amazing team andthen we work really closely.
We are a small team, so we workreally closely with the that
(07:36):
Sounds Fun Network, which is apodcast network that Annie
co-owns, and then we also workreally closely with a management
team who helps kind of brokerdeals and do negotiations and
marketing strategy with us.
So there's a lot of making surethat communication is staying
(07:57):
high and clear.
And then I mean, probably thething that is closest to my
heart is just making sure peoplehave what they need to do, what
they have been invited to do,to the very best of their
ability.
Jenni Catron (08:10):
Yeah, I love that, love that.
So you and I, you know we firstconnected when I worked at
Crosspoint.
You came on staff and I feellike together we kind of found
our way in shaping staff culture, like I don't think like either
one of us knew that was in ourjob title, but it was like I
think there was a level ofpassion for both of us around
(08:34):
the care of the team and knowinggosh, if we can steward the
team well, the ability toachieve the mission just is
amplified Right.
And so I'm curious for you,like when did you kind of
realize that passion for teamculture?
Because I think it kind of wasa gradual aha for me.
But you know, I don't know ifthat ever asked you that
question specifically.
I feel like I've always knownyou with an eye for the care of
(08:55):
a team, but I'd be curious whenyou, when you feel like that
developed for you.
Ashley Warren (09:01):
It's a great question, jenni, and I honestly,
when I look at trying to traceit back, I think it actually had
its genesis in my time as aclassroom teacher.
I was a high school teacher forseveral years before I came
into ministry, until you invitedme out of that classroom and
(09:23):
onto the team with you atCrosspoint, so I've been guilty
of stealing from a time or two.
I call it an invitation, but I,you know, in that environment I
had these four times a day.
I had a new group of people whowere under my care and
(09:44):
supervision.
We had very clear goals, thankyou to the state curriculum.
So our vision was preset andwithin that I got to like, look
at this room full of 25, 30ninth graders and be like, ok,
here are the personalitydynamics we've got going on,
(10:05):
here are the challenges that wemight be facing together.
And then here are our goals andand kind of taking all of that
into account, how do we togethermove this forward as close as
we can to the goals without, youknow, without losing the magic
that is in the combination ofall of these souls in the same
(10:27):
place?
Yeah, and so I think, because itwas a fun puzzle, frustrating
and challenging puzzle sometimes.
But but to to know, like, ok,later in the day we're going to
have to do things a littledifferently.
It can be the same lesson, butbecause of the, the makeup of
the class and the energy thatthey're bringing in, you know,
(10:50):
my approach might need to change.
Or you know, it's thedifference between lights off
and lights on, or whatever thereare.
There are just thesediscoveries to be made when a
group of people is is puttogether in pursuit of a common
goal.
Yeah, and so mining for themining for the magic within a
(11:15):
group just fascinates me and Ijust I find it to be really, I
mean, rewarding.
Feels almost trite, but it is,it's just so rewarding to be
able to look back and pointtheir attention into how far
(11:37):
we've come together.
That's right.
Look what we accomplishedtogether.
Yeah, and so there's justnothing like it, and so that's
where it started.
And then getting to, like yousaid, continue to discover and
unearth and shape, and a groupof people in pursuit of perhaps
the highest vision and callingwithin the local church.
(12:00):
Just so fun.
Jenni Catron (12:04):
Oh, so fun.
There's something reallyspecial about that, I think.
As much as I am such anindependent person, like I think
, in some ways, when I reflecton my journey, it's such a funny
little surprise to see how mypassion for teams has just like
exponentially grown, becausethere's such joy in seeing a
(12:26):
team work effectively togetherto achieve a mission, right,
right, one of the ways that Isometimes will talk about
culture is it's the stewardshipof people in pursuit of the
mission.
Right, there's this and youdefine that right.
The understanding of theirgifts and their unique dynamics,
and then that uniqueness ofwhat happens when that group is
together, like you know, andunderstanding that and nuancing
(12:48):
your approach as a leader, allfor the benefit of bringing out
their best giftedness inalignment with what we're trying
to achieve.
Yeah, and it happens, it ismagical, like it is.
There's really just energizingand fulfilling in that.
Yes, you know I, when I thinkback, because you know for the
listeners, you and I got to worktogether.
(13:08):
I think about eight or nineyears, if I'm right.
If I'm right, and I oftencredit you and I always I often
tell a story about how you wereone of those people in my life
that really helped me slow downto see people.
That's like one of thosephrases I have to keep in front
of myself because I'm such a Idon't have to tell you this I'm
such a driven, focused, make ithappen, take action type of
(13:32):
leader, and I would often be abit of a bulldozer.
Um, relationally, because ofthat Like I just you know, it
was like I saw the opportunityand the task and the potential
first, and then it would be likeoh, and yet, like this group of
people, how are they?
How are you feeling about this?
Right, and I feel like you.
You often, I remember, and Imight have like, like
(13:56):
embellished the story in my mindsince it happened, but there
was I don't know what we weredoing, but there was like a
staff meeting that I think I wassharing some big new initiative
that we were about to embark on.
Like it was like guys, this isgoing to be amazing, we're going
to do this thing and here'swhat it's going to require and
like and it was a probablyreally overwhelming, but just
sounded exciting to me and myvisionary like you know, like
(14:18):
conquer the next hill, kind ofmindset.
And I remember you and I weredebriefing together in my office
and you know I'm excited aboutit.
I'm like, okay, ash, how do youthink they felt?
And you kind of paused and youwere like well, in your very
gracious way, you were like Ithink they see the vision, I
think they get it, but, jen, Ithink they're a little tired.
(14:40):
And I was like they're tired,like you know, and we've
probably just done some otherreally big initiative, like you
know that we wasn't evencompletely finished.
And again, I don't remember thespecifics, I just remember you
said that and I think I kind ofbrushed it off.
And then you walked out and atsome point later I don't know
(15:01):
how much time went by and Iinvited you back in and I was
like, okay, wait, tell me more.
Because you had that likeawareness and sensitivity of
what was happening with the teamand it was such a valuable like
counterpart to my drivenness asa leader and I just I've, like
(15:23):
your voice rings in my head, orat least like what would Ashley
do rings in my head because ofyour sensitivity to going how's
the team?
How's the team feeling?
What's going on with them?
What are they, you know, andwhat do I need to be aware of?
And I think there are a lot ofleaders struggle with that right
, that a lot of leaders struggleto give time and attention to
(15:43):
the care of their team, and so Iwould.
I would love.
First of all, it'd be fun tosee if you ever remember that
story, if I've completelyembellished it, but we were like
20 like it where I just didn'thear you.
But how would, how would youencourage leaders to slow down
to see people Like what are someof the things you've learned
around that?
(16:04):
How would you coach leaderslike me that sometimes can be
too driven?
I'd love to just hear yourresponse to that.
Ashley Warren (16:11):
Sure, it's well.
I do remember and I do think weprobably had a few moments like
that, just of, hey, I'm sensingthat maybe, maybe this feels
overwhelming, or that I thinkthey've got some stuff going on
personal in their personal livesthat might be, you know,
causing them to feel a littledistracted or divided.
(16:32):
And what I would say is likeleaders like me need leaders
like you, the same as leaderslike you need leaders like me.
And so it is just backing up toremember that we all have a
place on the team the drivenvisionaries we would never get
(16:52):
anywhere without you, we wouldnever accomplish anything and
the more attuned, relationalleaders, like we don't want to
get to any stated goal at theexpense of our team and their
well-being.
And so it's bringing, you know,bringing the strengths together
(17:14):
.
And I mean you teach this sowell, jenni, and I've learned so
much from you aboutself-leadership and about being
aware of you know what is it,what's my bent, what's my
strength in this area?
What am I, you know, needing towork on?
And then, sometimes the needingto work on is who do I need to
(17:36):
invite in?
You know, whose voice do I needto have to debrief with?
Like you said because yourwisdom was well, maybe I'm
blowing past this.
I need to ask, and the factthat you, you know, did pause to
ask the question is is theimportant part of that
(17:59):
conversation, Because then, onceyou pause and ask the question,
I have a rhythm that I workthrough a lot right now.
It's just pause, pray, proceed.
It's just when we pause, itgives time for the questions to
rise up.
Jenni Catron (18:15):
You know okay, who do I?
Ashley Warren (18:16):
need to check on what's the.
I believe you had me read thebook, the question behind the
question.
Jenni Catron (18:22):
You know-.
Ashley Warren (18:24):
Before I explore what the answer is, where's the
question coming from?
Jenni Catron (18:29):
What's underneath this, you know?
Ashley Warren (18:31):
is it a performance issue with one of my
team members that is, you know,kind of indicating to me that
something's off, that I need tocheck on them about?
Is it a personality thing thattheir personality seems to have
changed in a way that you know,is kind of that little flag
raising like, oh, let's justcheck in?
(18:52):
And so I think my encouragementis not like, hey, try to be
someone you're not, it's just dotake that pause, pray through
and ask the question and thenkind of trust what comes up or
whoever you've invited into theconversation, you know, go ahead
(19:15):
and take a step toward whatthey're sensing and see what
happens.
Jenni Catron (19:21):
Yeah, that's really good.
I do think, like some of mybest growth as a leader occurred
especially around culture andteam dynamics, because of the
counterbalance of your voice,like, again, just that power of
and I do think that's reallyvaluable to teams as they're
thinking about organizationalculture and how critical it is
(19:42):
to be thinking about how do wereally steward employees well,
especially in just the kind ofthe volatility of the employment
dynamic these days.
It's like you know it is a bothand and.
Recognizing okay, which end ofthat spectrum do you tend to
lean on, and then havingsomebody you really trust to be
around you, helping you discernthe places where you are more
(20:06):
likely to have blind spots.
You know, I'd like to believeI'm a little more aware, but I
know under pressure I'm not LikeI know that like the more
intense the pace, the morethat's going on.
Then I tend to lean back intothat driven, figure it out, make
it happen, and I will.
I have to like actively coachmyself, slow down to see people
(20:30):
ask the questions, bring inperspective, so that I'm serving
the team, serving the teambetter ultimately.
Ashley, you talk a lot aboutcreating a culture of clarity
and care and I love those twowords, so I'd love for you to
talk about what does that meanto you when you're talking about
team culture, those two wordsclarity and care expand on that
(20:52):
for us.
Ashley Warren (20:53):
Sure, well, I know that probably no one is
listening, that hasn't kind ofheard the idea that clarity is
kindness, that keeping like thatit's one of the leaders like.
Highest opportunities, I think,for our teams is to bring
(21:15):
clarity to the assignment, tothe vision that we're working
toward and to the values thatinform how we're gonna work
together.
And it really is.
We can't go anywhere togetherif we don't see where we are
clearly and then see thedirection for where we want to
(21:38):
go.
A little plug for coaching ingeneral Annie and I are working
with a coach right now who tookour team, just as a, for
instance, took our team throughand exercised the summer.
That has been super helpful forus and it's because we had three
kind of finish lines coming upfor us that we knew in advance,
(22:01):
like we've got a break early inJuly but we've got a big tour, a
big project going on prior tothat.
And then we had a month that wehad some other goals in place
and looking at those threefinish lines and asking, okay,
(22:24):
what needs to be done by when?
Who's going to do it?
And keeping that kind of infront of our team helped us keep
communication high.
So, particularly because wewere going to be in different
places than we typically are.
(22:46):
That disruption to our norminvited a different type of
communication and so, where wewould normally not necessarily
not necessarily have a dailycheck-in, we instituted a daily
check-in for the time that wewere going to be specifically
disrupted by geography, and itwas so clarifying.
(23:10):
It was a quick question.
It was like hey, what are yourkind of three big rocks that
have to happen today and what doyou need from anybody else to
get them done?
That's it.
Two questions.
What are your?
How are you going to knowtoday's a success?
If these three things happen,good day.
And then, truly, as a, if werely on each other, as teammates
(23:34):
, and we can't give and take, ifwe can't ask and receive, then
what are we even doing?
So it was a sweet exercise andreally revelatory for us in how
we want to move forward eveninto the fall.
(23:55):
You just based on those twolittle daily questions, and so
bringing clarity does reallyallow us to work together better
, because we know what we need,we know what we have to give, we
know what margin exists, and sothat clarity piece is only as
(24:18):
good though, as the care,because if we're clear but not
not checking on our people asentire human beings who bring
their emotional, mental,physical and spiritual selves to
(24:39):
their work, then we'reneglecting part of our
opportunity as their leaders toserve them beyond the immediate
vision, because the real real isthat we're not likely to be on
the exact same team forever, andso when they're no longer under
(25:02):
our leadership, will they bebetter emotionally, mentally,
physically, spiritually becauseof their time on our team.
That's an invitation I takereally seriously, and so praying
for our team members, but thenalso knowing them, knowing their
(25:23):
strengths, what makes them tick, what motivates them, what do
they love to do when they'refree time, and then creating our
cultures around not just whatmatters to us as an organization
, but around what serves us as ateam too, that's huge.
Jenni Catron (25:44):
Yeah, what are some other things, ash, that you
guys do regularly that helpshape that culture?
For you guys like that reallyhelp reinforce that culture of
clarity and care?
Like, are there other rhythmsthat are just kind of part of
your routine?
Ashley Warren (26:00):
Well, again, things that I learned from you
and from working with you, andthen things that Annie really
intuitively leads as a strongjust she Hang on, I'm going to
try to say this better.
So there are things that Ilearned from you and from my
(26:28):
time working with you and thenkind of combining those with the
way that Annie so intuitivelyleads our team, that our team
values, our kind of core values,the mantras that are on the
walls in our office our workhard, play hard, rest hard, pray
(26:48):
hard and they are simplestatements that do guide us.
Now, obviously there are somekind of driving factors within
each of those, but when we thinkabout those values, when we
think about the like, we workhard.
(27:09):
So we were in in-person cultureby and large.
So we show up on time and westay until the job's done, and
often that means we findourselves eating lunch around
the table together, and so thereare opportunities for knowing
each other because of theproximity, because of the time
(27:32):
spent together, and so theexpectations clear we're here
and we're here on time and westay until we're done.
But then the care comes in withthe opportunity to have the
hallway conversations.
It's not so much hallway asmuch as we're kind of in a
constant conversation.
(27:52):
We're a loud team, we kind ofyell from office to office and
it's fun and informal, but acouple of other things that we
do to reinforce that.
I mean we do have weeklyrhythms with our staff meetings
and with just the accountabilityof keeping things visible.
(28:13):
That's another one of theexercises that our coach has
taken us through.
Everybody needs coach.
That's the plug.
Everybody needs coach.
It is true.
It is true.
One of the things that our coachhas talked with us about is
he's like everybody knows aboutsmart goals.
(28:34):
Have you ever heard about fastgoals?
And I was like no, tell me more.
And he talks about it's anacronym that refers to
Frequently Reviewed, ambitious,specific and Transparent and so
frequently reviewed, meaning wego over them at staff meeting
every week or in our one-on-onemeetings or, as the case may be,
(29:01):
ambitious being.
We're going to go for it, we'regoing to try some things.
Specific is one that is prettyself-explanatory, but then the
transparent part is where wekeep the conversation going
about.
Hey, I'm struggling with thispart.
(29:21):
Can we meet and talk about this, or does?
anybody have any ideas aboutsuch and such or hey, I'm not
going to hit this deadline, butit's because my attention has
been diverted over here.
I just want to make sure youguys know, and so, that
transparency is a real asset inkeeping the clarity high.
(29:44):
But it also helps us help eachother.
Jenni Catron (29:49):
Yeah, I love that Kind of gives a fresh.
You know we've all heard thesmart goal thing, but it kind of
gives that fresh way to thinkabout the goal process.
Ashley Warren (29:57):
Yes, and I will say I haven't actually finished
the book, but it comes fromSteve Preta and Gregory Cleary's
book Pinnacle.
So I can't fully fully plug itbecause, like I said, I haven't
finished it.
But so far, very helpful.
So good, I love it.
Jenni Catron (30:14):
I love it.
Ashley Warren (30:15):
Absolutely.
That's good.
When I think about what else wedo for care, it's, there's fun
built in we're, we're.
I mean it's part of the brand,it's.
It's part of what we do as acompany and you know.
And so we go to ball gamestogether and we make sure that
we have time scheduled outsideof work, time to to just be and
(30:38):
be together and be doingsomething fun.
And also we take breaks.
So we do actually rest hard, we.
We take a break in the summerand in the winter, in addition
to regular PTO.
You know that our teams cantake on their own and and then
we do summer hours where we cantry to actually access the
(30:59):
sunshine at some point.
Jenni Catron (31:01):
Nice.
Ashley Warren (31:03):
And then we can come out of here a little bit
early or or, you know, atwhatever the case may be, again
looking to serve our, our team,well right now, as whole humans,
and set them up.
That whenever I mean God forbidthat it happens anytime soon
but whenever we are not on ateam together that we are all
(31:25):
better for having been in thisplace together, that's really
good.
Jenni Catron (31:29):
That's really good , ash.
This is so, so helpful and Ijust love hearing your approach
and heart for caring for theteam.
What final thought orencouragement would you leave to
the listeners, the leaders thatare listening going?
Okay gosh, I know there's workwe need to do in our culture.
How would you encourage them?
It doesn't have to all be doneat once.
Ashley Warren (31:51):
Yes, identify one step you'd like to take and
just take it.
It's okay to take it clumsy,it's okay to try something and
decide you need a differentiteration the next time, but
what the people that have beenentrusted to your leadership
(32:12):
will remember is that you sawthem and that you cared, and
that care is not always atouchy-feely, emotional type of
care.
That care is also hey, I seesomething in you and I want to
encourage you toward growth inthat area.
Or there are avenues of carethat take place best when we
(32:39):
know our people, and so that'sthe real opportunity, I think,
is do the discovery work, dig into understand who they are,
what makes them tick, whatthey're amazing at, the areas
they need to grow.
Be the biggest student of whoit is relating, so that you can
(33:01):
take them somewhere great.
Jenni Catron (33:05):
All right, friends , did that get you thinking Like
, were you a little convictedabout the care side of things?
Maybe you get that and thatcomes naturally for you.
You heard me share how that islike the side of my development
as a leader that I've really hadto grow in and Ashley was such
a key part of my growth as aleader in that, and so I hope
(33:26):
that was helpful and just helpedyou see how a leader is doing
it in the trenches, likeAshley's in the work, leading a
team actively day to day.
So she is actually in the workand wrestling through all the
complexities of a fast-growingorganization and maintaining the
healthy culture of a team.
So I hope that was helpful toyou.
(33:47):
If it was, share it, pass italong, tell somebody else about
it that you think might beinspired by it, and then let us
know what you thought.
Email me at podcast atget4sight.
com.
Let me know what you want tohear more of, let me know what
you want to hear less of, let meknow what's most helpful to you
, because ultimately we want thepodcast to be a place where you
are equipped to keep learningand growing and leading well.
(34:11):
So again, if it was helpful,share it, rate it, review it, do
all those fun things becausethey help a lot and then, in the
meantime, keep leading well.
Hey, friends, I'm your host, Jenni Catron, and
this is the Lead Culture Podcast, where I coach you to lead
yourself well so you can leadothers better.
My team and I at the 4sightGroup are committed to building
confident leaders, extraordinaryteams and thriving cultures.
(00:30):
Each week, we'll take a deepdive into a leadership or
culture topic that will give youthe tools you need to lead with
clarity and confidence andbuild a thriving team.
Now, friends, today you aregetting to kind of sit in on two
really dear friends having ajust, thoughtful conversation
(00:52):
around our heart for teams, ourheart for building healthy teams
.
You're going to hear from mydear, dear friend, Ashley Warren
.
Ashley is the Chief OperatingOfficer of Downs Books
Incorporated, a media companybased in Nashville, tennessee,
combining the communicationsculture and team building
(01:12):
experience she gained as aneducator and then the Director
of Employee Culture at a largemulti-site church.
That's where we worked together.
Ashley now leads the team thatsupports the work of author
speaker, podcaster Annie F.
Downs.
I know, you all know Annie.
Annie is a fan, longtime friend, a phenomenal leader and
(01:34):
somebody you need to belistening to for sure.
Now Ashley is passionate aboutcreating a culture of clarity
and care that allows every teammember space to thrive, and
that's what you're going to hearfrom our conversation today.
I wanted to have Ashley on thepodcast.
You'll hear a bit of ourbackstory.
We've worked together in acouple of different capacities.
(01:55):
She was with us on the team at4sight for a bit.
We worked for eight or nineyears together at a mega church
in Nashville, and in thoseseasons we had such a unique
opportunity to really shapeculture together and learn
together as we go.
So much of the lead cultureframework that I reference and
(02:17):
that we do when we're workingwith organizations was really
birthed in those years at thechurch in Nashville, and so
Ashley was right there with meas we were figuring some of that
out, and so you're going tohear us talk about some of those
moments and those memories ofjust kind of finding our way
through the importance ofbuilding healthy culture,
(02:38):
healthy team, and you're goingto love Ashley's heart.
Her heart for the care of ateam is none other, and so she
just provides some valuableinsight into how to think about
the care of your team as aleader.
So here's my conversation withmy dear friend Ashley Warren Ash
(03:05):
, how fun to have you back onthe podcast.
You were actually on thepodcast away.
It feels like a long time ago.
Ashley Warren (03:12):
It's been a little bit, it has been a long
time ago.
I'm so, I'm so honored to behere.
Jenni Catron (03:16):
Well, anytime you and I get time to catch up, like
we we spent a lot of time prerecording like all the catch up
on life and and all the things.
But I but I love talkingculture with you and I really
was excited for the listeners tojust kind of hear an update on
where you are Cause I think whenyou were on the podcast last
might have been when you weredoing some work with us at
(03:38):
foresight, doing some of theculture workshops with us, I
think you're right.
And then our dear friend AnnieF Downs stole you and you joined
her team as the chief operatingofficer, which I'm like, it's
true, it was a good, it was agood move.
Ashley Warren (03:51):
Like selfishly, I like to keep you around, but
that's a good move, one of thethings you know I learned in in
a season of transition and doingsome freelance work and sitting
kind of with a really beautifulopportunity to sit with two
teams at once your team andAnnie's team, kind of just
(04:16):
having to come face to face withthe self awareness that I'm
built to be on one team and toplant myself and focus in
support of one vision.
And that, of course, involvesletting go in some places that
you know.
I mean.
What fun to have been involvedin those years, at foresight and
(04:40):
and knowing that neitherorganization was getting the
best of me when I was feelingdivided.
Jenni Catron (04:48):
So it was hard letting go.
Ashley Warren (04:49):
And also Look at us now, Jen.
Jenni Catron (04:53):
I mean that's a thing I talk to leaders all the
time about is, you know, like,being open-handed with, like, of
course we want to attract andretain the best people and build
amazing teams, but there's alsothat recognition of seasons and
you and I have had theprivilege of working with each
other in a couple of differentseasons and now we just work
with you in a little bitdifferent capacity because, you
(05:14):
know, again, annie's a greatfriend and we're champions of
what you guys do and vice versa.
And just being open-handed aboutrecognizing that God moves
people on in some seasons andjust being confident that you
know, as we as we follow, thatlike his faithfulness in that
journey and, like you said, foryou, that recognition and
(05:37):
self-awareness of a, you know,being full-time on a team,
giving that focused energy, ishow you work best and that's
absolutely true.
And so like, for me it is suchjoy to watch you thrive and
flourish and lead that team sowell.
So it's I mean I joke, but Ifully like, believe that it's
(05:58):
the right seat for you right now.
So, thank you, tell everybodyabout your role at Annie F or
it's Downs Books.
Technically, yes, tell us aboutbeing chief operating officer
at Downs Books.
Ashley Warren (06:09):
Yeah.
So as the COO at Downs Books,we are a media company in
support of Annie F Downs as anauthor, speaker and podcaster,
among other things.
She wears multiple hats thisone and so she has been a
published author for over adecade and just writes beautiful
(06:34):
memoir type you know,faith-based books.
And then she has, you know, anamazing podcast called that
Sounds Fun.
Yes, and then this yearlaunched a second podcast called
let's Read the Gospels, whichis a really, really beautiful
project to be a part of.
(06:54):
And then she does live eventsand touring all over the place.
We toured in June I got to gowith her.
It was so fun and importantthat the touch base with the
people on the other side of ourwork getting a face-to-face time
with them and getting to heartheir stories and see what you
(07:15):
know makes them come alive in aroom together just priceless.
So my day-to-day is serving theteam that I'm just cuckoo about
.
We have an amazing team andthen we work really closely.
We are a small team, so we workreally closely with the that
(07:36):
Sounds Fun Network, which is apodcast network that Annie
co-owns, and then we also workreally closely with a management
team who helps kind of brokerdeals and do negotiations and
marketing strategy with us.
So there's a lot of making surethat communication is staying
(07:57):
high and clear.
And then I mean, probably thething that is closest to my
heart is just making sure peoplehave what they need to do, what
they have been invited to do,to the very best of their
ability.
Jenni Catron (08:10):
Yeah, I love that, love that.
So you and I, you know we firstconnected when I worked at
Crosspoint.
You came on staff and I feellike together we kind of found
our way in shaping staff culture, like I don't think like either
one of us knew that was in ourjob title, but it was like I
think there was a level ofpassion for both of us around
(08:34):
the care of the team and knowinggosh, if we can steward the
team well, the ability toachieve the mission just is
amplified Right.
And so I'm curious for you,like when did you kind of
realize that passion for teamculture?
Because I think it kind of wasa gradual aha for me.
But you know, I don't know ifthat ever asked you that
question specifically.
I feel like I've always knownyou with an eye for the care of
(08:55):
a team, but I'd be curious whenyou, when you feel like that
developed for you.
Ashley Warren (09:01):
It's a great question, jenni, and I honestly,
when I look at trying to traceit back, I think it actually had
its genesis in my time as aclassroom teacher.
I was a high school teacher forseveral years before I came
into ministry, until you invitedme out of that classroom and
(09:23):
onto the team with you atCrosspoint, so I've been guilty
of stealing from a time or two.
I call it an invitation, but I,you know, in that environment I
had these four times a day.
I had a new group of people whowere under my care and
(09:44):
supervision.
We had very clear goals, thankyou to the state curriculum.
So our vision was preset andwithin that I got to like, look
at this room full of 25, 30ninth graders and be like, ok,
here are the personalitydynamics we've got going on,
(10:05):
here are the challenges that wemight be facing together.
And then here are our goals andand kind of taking all of that
into account, how do we togethermove this forward as close as
we can to the goals without, youknow, without losing the magic
that is in the combination ofall of these souls in the same
(10:27):
place?
Yeah, and so I think, because itwas a fun puzzle, frustrating
and challenging puzzle sometimes.
But but to to know, like, ok,later in the day we're going to
have to do things a littledifferently.
It can be the same lesson, butbecause of the, the makeup of
the class and the energy thatthey're bringing in, you know,
(10:50):
my approach might need to change.
Or you know, it's thedifference between lights off
and lights on, or whatever thereare.
There are just thesediscoveries to be made when a
group of people is is puttogether in pursuit of a common
goal.
Yeah, and so mining for themining for the magic within a
(11:15):
group just fascinates me and Ijust I find it to be really, I
mean, rewarding.
Feels almost trite, but it is,it's just so rewarding to be
able to look back and pointtheir attention into how far
(11:37):
we've come together.
That's right.
Look what we accomplishedtogether.
Yeah, and so there's justnothing like it, and so that's
where it started.
And then getting to, like yousaid, continue to discover and
unearth and shape, and a groupof people in pursuit of perhaps
the highest vision and callingwithin the local church.
(12:00):
Just so fun.
Jenni Catron (12:04):
Oh, so fun.
There's something reallyspecial about that, I think.
As much as I am such anindependent person, like I think
, in some ways, when I reflecton my journey, it's such a funny
little surprise to see how mypassion for teams has just like
exponentially grown, becausethere's such joy in seeing a
(12:26):
team work effectively togetherto achieve a mission, right,
right, one of the ways that Isometimes will talk about
culture is it's the stewardshipof people in pursuit of the
mission.
Right, there's this and youdefine that right.
The understanding of theirgifts and their unique dynamics,
and then that uniqueness ofwhat happens when that group is
together, like you know, andunderstanding that and nuancing
(12:48):
your approach as a leader, allfor the benefit of bringing out
their best giftedness inalignment with what we're trying
to achieve.
Yeah, and it happens, it ismagical, like it is.
There's really just energizingand fulfilling in that.
Yes, you know I, when I thinkback, because you know for the
listeners, you and I got to worktogether.
(13:08):
I think about eight or nineyears, if I'm right.
If I'm right, and I oftencredit you and I always I often
tell a story about how you wereone of those people in my life
that really helped me slow downto see people.
That's like one of thosephrases I have to keep in front
of myself because I'm such a Idon't have to tell you this I'm
such a driven, focused, make ithappen, take action type of
(13:32):
leader, and I would often be abit of a bulldozer.
Um, relationally, because ofthat Like I just you know, it
was like I saw the opportunityand the task and the potential
first, and then it would be likeoh, and yet, like this group of
people, how are they?
How are you feeling about this?
Right, and I feel like you.
You often, I remember, and Imight have like, like
(13:56):
embellished the story in my mindsince it happened, but there
was I don't know what we weredoing, but there was like a
staff meeting that I think I wassharing some big new initiative
that we were about to embark on.
Like it was like guys, this isgoing to be amazing, we're going
to do this thing and here'swhat it's going to require and
like and it was a probablyreally overwhelming, but just
sounded exciting to me and myvisionary like you know, like
(14:18):
conquer the next hill, kind ofmindset.
And I remember you and I weredebriefing together in my office
and you know I'm excited aboutit.
I'm like, okay, ash, how do youthink they felt?
And you kind of paused and youwere like well, in your very
gracious way, you were like Ithink they see the vision, I
think they get it, but, jen, Ithink they're a little tired.
(14:40):
And I was like they're tired,like you know, and we've
probably just done some otherreally big initiative, like you
know that we wasn't evencompletely finished.
And again, I don't remember thespecifics, I just remember you
said that and I think I kind ofbrushed it off.
And then you walked out and atsome point later I don't know
(15:01):
how much time went by and Iinvited you back in and I was
like, okay, wait, tell me more.
Because you had that likeawareness and sensitivity of
what was happening with the teamand it was such a valuable like
counterpart to my drivenness asa leader and I just I've, like
(15:23):
your voice rings in my head, orat least like what would Ashley
do rings in my head because ofyour sensitivity to going how's
the team?
How's the team feeling?
What's going on with them?
What are they, you know, andwhat do I need to be aware of?
And I think there are a lot ofleaders struggle with that right
, that a lot of leaders struggleto give time and attention to
(15:43):
the care of their team, and so Iwould.
I would love.
First of all, it'd be fun tosee if you ever remember that
story, if I've completelyembellished it, but we were like
20 like it where I just didn'thear you.
But how would, how would youencourage leaders to slow down
to see people Like what are someof the things you've learned
around that?
(16:04):
How would you coach leaderslike me that sometimes can be
too driven?
I'd love to just hear yourresponse to that.
Ashley Warren (16:11):
Sure, it's well.
I do remember and I do think weprobably had a few moments like
that, just of, hey, I'm sensingthat maybe, maybe this feels
overwhelming, or that I thinkthey've got some stuff going on
personal in their personal livesthat might be, you know,
causing them to feel a littledistracted or divided.
(16:32):
And what I would say is likeleaders like me need leaders
like you, the same as leaderslike you need leaders like me.
And so it is just backing up toremember that we all have a
place on the team the drivenvisionaries we would never get
(16:52):
anywhere without you, we wouldnever accomplish anything and
the more attuned, relationalleaders, like we don't want to
get to any stated goal at theexpense of our team and their
well-being.
And so it's bringing, you know,bringing the strengths together
(17:14):
.
And I mean you teach this sowell, jenni, and I've learned so
much from you aboutself-leadership and about being
aware of you know what is it,what's my bent, what's my
strength in this area?
What am I, you know, needing towork on?
And then, sometimes the needingto work on is who do I need to
(17:36):
invite in?
You know, whose voice do I needto have to debrief with?
Like you said because yourwisdom was well, maybe I'm
blowing past this.
I need to ask, and the factthat you, you know, did pause to
ask the question is is theimportant part of that
(17:59):
conversation, Because then, onceyou pause and ask the question,
I have a rhythm that I workthrough a lot right now.
It's just pause, pray, proceed.
It's just when we pause, itgives time for the questions to
rise up.
Jenni Catron (18:15):
You know okay, who do I?
Ashley Warren (18:16):
need to check on what's the.
I believe you had me read thebook, the question behind the
question.
Jenni Catron (18:22):
You know-.
Ashley Warren (18:24):
Before I explore what the answer is, where's the
question coming from?
Jenni Catron (18:29):
What's underneath this, you know?
Ashley Warren (18:31):
is it a performance issue with one of my
team members that is, you know,kind of indicating to me that
something's off, that I need tocheck on them about?
Is it a personality thing thattheir personality seems to have
changed in a way that you know,is kind of that little flag
raising like, oh, let's justcheck in?
(18:52):
And so I think my encouragementis not like, hey, try to be
someone you're not, it's just dotake that pause, pray through
and ask the question and thenkind of trust what comes up or
whoever you've invited into theconversation, you know, go ahead
(19:15):
and take a step toward whatthey're sensing and see what
happens.
Jenni Catron (19:21):
Yeah, that's really good.
I do think, like some of mybest growth as a leader occurred
especially around culture andteam dynamics, because of the
counterbalance of your voice,like, again, just that power of
and I do think that's reallyvaluable to teams as they're
thinking about organizationalculture and how critical it is
(19:42):
to be thinking about how do wereally steward employees well,
especially in just the kind ofthe volatility of the employment
dynamic these days.
It's like you know it is a bothand and.
Recognizing okay, which end ofthat spectrum do you tend to
lean on, and then havingsomebody you really trust to be
around you, helping you discernthe places where you are more
(20:06):
likely to have blind spots.
You know, I'd like to believeI'm a little more aware, but I
know under pressure I'm not LikeI know that like the more
intense the pace, the morethat's going on.
Then I tend to lean back intothat driven, figure it out, make
it happen, and I will.
I have to like actively coachmyself, slow down to see people
(20:30):
ask the questions, bring inperspective, so that I'm serving
the team, serving the teambetter ultimately.
Ashley, you talk a lot aboutcreating a culture of clarity
and care and I love those twowords, so I'd love for you to
talk about what does that meanto you when you're talking about
team culture, those two wordsclarity and care expand on that
(20:52):
for us.
Ashley Warren (20:53):
Sure, well, I know that probably no one is
listening, that hasn't kind ofheard the idea that clarity is
kindness, that keeping like thatit's one of the leaders like.
Highest opportunities, I think,for our teams is to bring
(21:15):
clarity to the assignment, tothe vision that we're working
toward and to the values thatinform how we're gonna work
together.
And it really is.
We can't go anywhere togetherif we don't see where we are
clearly and then see thedirection for where we want to
(21:38):
go.
A little plug for coaching ingeneral Annie and I are working
with a coach right now who tookour team, just as a, for
instance, took our team throughand exercised the summer.
That has been super helpful forus and it's because we had three
kind of finish lines coming upfor us that we knew in advance,
(22:01):
like we've got a break early inJuly but we've got a big tour, a
big project going on prior tothat.
And then we had a month that wehad some other goals in place
and looking at those threefinish lines and asking, okay,
(22:24):
what needs to be done by when?
Who's going to do it?
And keeping that kind of infront of our team helped us keep
communication high.
So, particularly because wewere going to be in different
places than we typically are.
(22:46):
That disruption to our norminvited a different type of
communication and so, where wewould normally not necessarily
not necessarily have a dailycheck-in, we instituted a daily
check-in for the time that wewere going to be specifically
disrupted by geography, and itwas so clarifying.
(23:10):
It was a quick question.
It was like hey, what are yourkind of three big rocks that
have to happen today and what doyou need from anybody else to
get them done?
That's it.
Two questions.
What are your?
How are you going to knowtoday's a success?
If these three things happen,good day.
And then, truly, as a, if werely on each other, as teammates
(23:34):
, and we can't give and take, ifwe can't ask and receive, then
what are we even doing?
So it was a sweet exercise andreally revelatory for us in how
we want to move forward eveninto the fall.
(23:55):
You just based on those twolittle daily questions, and so
bringing clarity does reallyallow us to work together better
, because we know what we need,we know what we have to give, we
know what margin exists, and sothat clarity piece is only as
(24:18):
good though, as the care,because if we're clear but not
not checking on our people asentire human beings who bring
their emotional, mental,physical and spiritual selves to
(24:39):
their work, then we'reneglecting part of our
opportunity as their leaders toserve them beyond the immediate
vision, because the real real isthat we're not likely to be on
the exact same team forever, andso when they're no longer under
(25:02):
our leadership, will they bebetter emotionally, mentally,
physically, spiritually becauseof their time on our team.
That's an invitation I takereally seriously, and so praying
for our team members, but thenalso knowing them, knowing their
(25:23):
strengths, what makes them tick, what motivates them, what do
they love to do when they'refree time, and then creating our
cultures around not just whatmatters to us as an organization
, but around what serves us as ateam too, that's huge.
Jenni Catron (25:44):
Yeah, what are some other things, ash, that you
guys do regularly that helpshape that culture?
For you guys like that reallyhelp reinforce that culture of
clarity and care?
Like, are there other rhythmsthat are just kind of part of
your routine?
Ashley Warren (26:00):
Well, again, things that I learned from you
and from working with you, andthen things that Annie really
intuitively leads as a strongjust she Hang on, I'm going to
try to say this better.
So there are things that Ilearned from you and from my
(26:28):
time working with you and thenkind of combining those with the
way that Annie so intuitivelyleads our team, that our team
values, our kind of core values,the mantras that are on the
walls in our office our workhard, play hard, rest hard, pray
(26:48):
hard and they are simplestatements that do guide us.
Now, obviously there are somekind of driving factors within
each of those, but when we thinkabout those values, when we
think about the like, we workhard.
(27:09):
So we were in in-person cultureby and large.
So we show up on time and westay until the job's done, and
often that means we findourselves eating lunch around
the table together, and so thereare opportunities for knowing
each other because of theproximity, because of the time
(27:32):
spent together, and so theexpectations clear we're here
and we're here on time and westay until we're done.
But then the care comes in withthe opportunity to have the
hallway conversations.
It's not so much hallway asmuch as we're kind of in a
constant conversation.
(27:52):
We're a loud team, we kind ofyell from office to office and
it's fun and informal, but acouple of other things that we
do to reinforce that.
I mean we do have weeklyrhythms with our staff meetings
and with just the accountabilityof keeping things visible.
(28:13):
That's another one of theexercises that our coach has
taken us through.
Everybody needs coach.
That's the plug.
Everybody needs coach.
It is true.
It is true.
One of the things that our coachhas talked with us about is
he's like everybody knows aboutsmart goals.
(28:34):
Have you ever heard about fastgoals?
And I was like no, tell me more.
And he talks about it's anacronym that refers to
Frequently Reviewed, ambitious,specific and Transparent and so
frequently reviewed, meaning wego over them at staff meeting
every week or in our one-on-onemeetings or, as the case may be,
(29:01):
ambitious being.
We're going to go for it, we'regoing to try some things.
Specific is one that is prettyself-explanatory, but then the
transparent part is where wekeep the conversation going
about.
Hey, I'm struggling with thispart.
(29:21):
Can we meet and talk about this, or does?
anybody have any ideas aboutsuch and such or hey, I'm not
going to hit this deadline, butit's because my attention has
been diverted over here.
I just want to make sure youguys know, and so, that
transparency is a real asset inkeeping the clarity high.
(29:44):
But it also helps us help eachother.
Jenni Catron (29:49):
Yeah, I love that Kind of gives a fresh.
You know we've all heard thesmart goal thing, but it kind of
gives that fresh way to thinkabout the goal process.
Ashley Warren (29:57):
Yes, and I will say I haven't actually finished
the book, but it comes fromSteve Preta and Gregory Cleary's
book Pinnacle.
So I can't fully fully plug itbecause, like I said, I haven't
finished it.
But so far, very helpful.
So good, I love it.
Jenni Catron (30:14):
I love it.
Ashley Warren (30:15):
Absolutely.
That's good.
When I think about what else wedo for care, it's, there's fun
built in we're, we're.
I mean it's part of the brand,it's.
It's part of what we do as acompany and you know.
And so we go to ball gamestogether and we make sure that
we have time scheduled outsideof work, time to to just be and
(30:38):
be together and be doingsomething fun.
And also we take breaks.
So we do actually rest hard, we.
We take a break in the summerand in the winter, in addition
to regular PTO.
You know that our teams cantake on their own and and then
we do summer hours where we cantry to actually access the
(30:59):
sunshine at some point.
Jenni Catron (31:01):
Nice.
Ashley Warren (31:03):
And then we can come out of here a little bit
early or or, you know, atwhatever the case may be, again
looking to serve our, our team,well right now, as whole humans,
and set them up.
That whenever I mean God forbidthat it happens anytime soon
but whenever we are not on ateam together that we are all
(31:25):
better for having been in thisplace together, that's really
good.
Jenni Catron (31:29):
That's really good , ash.
This is so, so helpful and Ijust love hearing your approach
and heart for caring for theteam.
What final thought orencouragement would you leave to
the listeners, the leaders thatare listening going?
Okay gosh, I know there's workwe need to do in our culture.
How would you encourage them?
It doesn't have to all be doneat once.
Ashley Warren (31:51):
Yes, identify one step you'd like to take and
just take it.
It's okay to take it clumsy,it's okay to try something and
decide you need a differentiteration the next time, but
what the people that have beenentrusted to your leadership
(32:12):
will remember is that you sawthem and that you cared, and
that care is not always atouchy-feely, emotional type of
care.
That care is also hey, I seesomething in you and I want to
encourage you toward growth inthat area.
Or there are avenues of carethat take place best when we
(32:39):
know our people, and so that'sthe real opportunity, I think,
is do the discovery work, dig into understand who they are,
what makes them tick, whatthey're amazing at, the areas
they need to grow.
Be the biggest student of whoit is relating, so that you can
(33:01):
take them somewhere great.
Jenni Catron (33:05):
All right, friends , did that get you thinking Like
, were you a little convictedabout the care side of things?
Maybe you get that and thatcomes naturally for you.
You heard me share how that islike the side of my development
as a leader that I've really hadto grow in and Ashley was such
a key part of my growth as aleader in that, and so I hope
(33:26):
that was helpful and just helpedyou see how a leader is doing
it in the trenches, likeAshley's in the work, leading a
team actively day to day.
So she is actually in the workand wrestling through all the
complexities of a fast-growingorganization and maintaining the
healthy culture of a team.
So I hope that was helpful toyou.
(33:47):
If it was, share it, pass italong, tell somebody else about
it that you think might beinspired by it, and then let us
know what you thought.
Email me at podcast atget4sight.
com.
Let me know what you want tohear more of, let me know what
you want to hear less of, let meknow what's most helpful to you
, because ultimately we want thepodcast to be a place where you
are equipped to keep learningand growing and leading well.
(34:11):
So again, if it was helpful,share it, rate it, review it, do
all those fun things becausethey help a lot and then, in the
meantime, keep leading well.
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