April 21, 2025 • 30 mins
Your brain hates and loves change. It despises it yet craves it at the same time. If it's true for your brain then it's true for all your employees too. So, as the rate of change increases in the world around us - think tariffs, think AI, think market swings, think customer demands, think hybrid work - have you stopped to consider what your strategy is for leading through change?
Here's some of what Lone Rock Leadership co-founder Russ Hill dives into in this jam-packed episode:
• Status quo bias makes us perceive changes as threats, triggering unconscious resistance
• Novelty seeking drives our desire for innovation, new experiences, and fresh approaches
• The modern workplace is transforming at unprecedented speed, requiring greater adaptability
• Leaders must position themselves on the past-present-future continuum based on their role
• Senior executives need to operate 6-12 months ahead while building teams that handle present operations
• Effective change leadership acknowledges both our resistance to change and desire for innovation
• Organizations moving too slowly risk irrelevance while those changing too frequently create fatigue
• Building strong teams enables leaders to focus on future strategy rather than present operations
In our next episode, we'll explore the tactical aspects of leading people through the three stages of organizational change.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What is your strategy , what's your game plan?
How do you think about how tomanage change as a leader,
because you've got these twoconflicting human desires and
you've got a world that'srotating, changing faster than
ever.
Do you have a game plan for it?
Let's talk about it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
This is the Lead in 30 podcast with Russ Hill.
You cannot be serious.
Strengthen your ability to leadin less than 30 minutes.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
We don't even realize that we do it, and yet it
constantly happens.
Your brain's doing it, mybrain's doing it, everybody on
your team, their minds areengaged in this as well.
Let me give you the scenario.
So I walk in, I walk into theoffice yeah, I know, this is
(00:54):
like a 1985 story, becausethere's like an office and we go
to it.
I'm just playing with you.
I think that, like maybe 30years from now, that's how we'll
describe it Like.
Do you remember the time whenthere were like these office
buildings and people went andworked?
Like it's so interesting tothink about the future, isn't it
(01:14):
?
Anyway, in this hybrid day andage and I know there are many of
you who, every day, you'restill in the office or you work
in an environment a hospital,restaurant, a factory, whatever
it might be and you're thereevery day and everybody needs to
be but you're the exception,not the rule the vast majority
of people are now in this hybridenvironment.
My son, who's graduating fromcollege in just a matter of days
(01:38):
he got a job at a bighealthcare company in the state
where he's graduating from, andwhen he went to work for the
first time in the last few days,they gave him his office
computer and then they gave himan entire kit, if you will, all
(01:58):
of this equipment for home likelights and cameras and different
switchers for whatever, andmultiple.
I think he's got like two orthree monitors at least I think
he said three and all.
Like he's got all this, that,that standard now at that
company, this, this, this packet, if you will, or this equipment
(02:19):
, this gear for at home, likethat that.
There's nobody who got that in2018.
Okay, well, maybe like a fewpeople at Google and a few high
tech companies, but that waslargely unheard of.
And yet now here's my um,here's my son going out into the
business world and that'sthat's his very first job, first
(02:42):
job, you know, career wiseafter college, and that's that's
what they do.
Because he's he's hybrid he'sin the office a few days a week
and then he's at home a few daysa week.
And, by the way, that wascritically important to him at
his age, by the way, um, thinkabout that too.
That's so unique to him, isn'tnot even, like everybody, his
(03:05):
age.
That's just what they want.
It's what they expect.
You're dealing with it, right,you?
You know what I'm talking about.
If you recruit or interview orhire people.
I don't again, I don't care theindustry you're.
You're sensing that anyway.
Um, so let's, let's say I walkinto the office and I notice
(03:27):
that some things are different,like maybe somebody's the
furniture has been moved around,maybe somebody's office isn't
where it was, like theirnameplate is moved, or maybe
their stuff is gone.
What does my brain, what doesyour brain do in that moment?
(03:47):
They call that status quo bias.
They call that fight or flight,right.
They call that threat detection, and so I want to start with
that.
And then I want to talk abouthow that it conflicts with our
desire for change.
And then we're going to spendsome time talking about how are
(04:10):
you managing this?
Like, what's your game plan formaking sure that you're taking
your organization into thefuture?
You're innovating, you'reforward looking, forward,
forward thinking.
You're not stuck in the presentand and you're you're helping
the organization and maybe theleaders who report into you
(04:33):
manage through changeeffectively.
They call this agility,adaptability, right?
It's one of the most in demandleadership development skills
right now, according to all theresearch.
Why?
Because the world's changinglike at an insane pace.
So do you have the ability?
Do I have the ability?
Have we trained the leaders inour organization to manage
(04:56):
change, to lead through change?
That's what we're talking aboutin this episode.
Welcome in to the Lead in 30podcast.
In less than 30 minutes, we'llgive you a framework, a model,
an idea, best practices story,something to think.
That's what we're talking aboutin this episode.
Welcome in to the lead in 30podcast.
In less than 30 minutes, we'llgive you a framework, a model,
an idea, best practices story,something to think about as you
work to strengthen your abilityto lead others.
Nothing has more impact in yourlife on your ability to earn
(05:16):
income, to scale results, to behappy, to lead others.
All these things Then your yourability to lead right.
It affects everything in life,and so I'm glad that you're here
listening to a podcast aboutleadership development.
I hope that you've got amultifaceted approach to try to
develop yourself as a leader.
I hope you're paying to go tomastermind groups.
(05:39):
I hope you're in networkinggroups.
I hope you're going toconferences.
I hope you're logging in andbuying courses.
I hope you've got a coach or aconsultant or somebody that
you're tapping into, challengesyour thinking and ask lots of
questions.
I hope that you're you're.
You've got a mentor.
I hope you've got people thatyou, you connect with, that are
helping you think differently.
If you do, your growth curve issteep and that's awesome.
(06:02):
Well, if you actually pursue orimplement some of what they
share with you.
If you want to find out moreabout our firm, go to loanrockio
.
There's a lead in 30 course.
It's the foundational course,the first one that we offered in
the leadership developmentspace, which is all about the
three core fundamentalcapabilities of a leader who
(06:24):
scales, what did they do andwhat what's most required.
We boiled it down to threethings and uh, it's in that.
It's in that lead in 30 courseat lone rockio.
We only offer it for fororganizations.
You can't just take it on yourown.
You've got a, you've got to buyit for 10, 20, 30, 50, 100
managers at your organization tobe able to go through it.
(06:44):
And our book, our book on uhthat's centered around that
course because it's a foundationof our executive consulting
company as well.
That book is coming out thisyear.
It is the first draft, is done,it's written, it's all there.
I think it's 37,000 words,something like that.
(07:06):
We've been working on it forthree years.
Yeah, three years.
We've had a team of differentwriters.
We've got a head ghostwriter onit now, who's phenomenal, and I
am so excited for you to haveaccess to that book.
It's at a whole.
It's at a whole different levelthan anything we've ever done
before.
(07:26):
It's our fourth book and it'sby far going to be this one.
You all, we wanted it to bejust timeless, to be, um,
something that ages well, thatpeople can go back to 20 years
from now, and and and theprinciples will apply.
And we're we're just so, soexcited about it.
(07:47):
So more on that to come soon.
Okay, so change.
Let's talk about change, andthere's so much that we could
say about it.
The the.
The reason that I want to talkabout this is a couple different
reasons.
Number one the world that welive in, the marketplace that we
operate in, the society aroundus, the workforce that we lead,
(08:12):
the customers that we serve.
The amount of change happening,the amount of change demanded,
the amount of agility requiredis off the charts.
It's not even close.
It's not even close to what wethought it was in 2019.
Not like we thought.
We thought.
We thought the world waschanging quickly in 2018 and
(08:34):
2017.
Right, we thought, man, you gotto have agility.
You got to be adaptable, yougot to be able to lead through.
We didn't even know the half ofit.
I mean, when you talk about whatI was talking about just a
minute ago, the hybrid, all thechanges in the workplace, then
you think about customers, thenyou think about tariffs, then
you think about AI, then youthink about, I mean, all of
(08:55):
these things together, you mixthem in a bowl and you're like
holy crap, there's a lot,there's a lot of variables
coming at us as leaders today.
And so if you're part of anorganization that moves like
it's in a freaking school zone,barely creeping a lot like you
are gonna be left in the dust.
(09:16):
Do you have to like clean yourglasses off a bunch because
they're just covered in dust,left by your competitors and
your customers in the marketthat are just zooming by you?
You can't do that.
You can't be that leader who'sgetting left behind and yet, at
the same time, you can't be theleader.
(09:37):
That's just it's flavor of themonth, that it's a million
different things and we're justconstantly we're doing this org
reshuffle and that change andthat thing, and and now you got
change fatigue inside yourorganization, because not only
are so many things happening outthere but we like we can't.
We can't pick a strategy inhere.
We're constantly just it lookslike we got no strategic ability
(10:00):
whatsoever.
So you don't want to be thatleader?
Oh my gosh, have I worked forthat leader before?
Have I consulted that leaderbefore?
So much so, both of them theextreme.
We don't want to be at the endof that continuum.
On either side, like addicted tochange I constantly mix it up.
Every day is somethingdifferent or on the other end,
that's like all right, walkinginto the academic library where
(10:25):
it's quiet and we move at asnail's pace, right?
So I'm going to give you a.
There's just way more than Icould fit in 30 minutes in this
episode.
We've created a whole course.
This is our.
You know I told you in the lastepisode that we launched three
new courses this year and thelast few months we went from
lead in 30, which has been theonly course that's, you know,
(10:46):
available off the shelf.
Basically, again, just to reset.
So everybody's aware.
You know we took everythingwe've been doing with executives
at these large fortune 500companies for the last 20 years
and we looked at what are themain core models and how can we
commoditize and make themavailable, put them on a shelf
that people can just buy, takeit up to the cash register and
(11:07):
buy, and that can be taught byHR people or L&D people or
trainers inside companies?
How can we create thatcurriculum?
And so the very first thing wedid was we created Lead in 30.
And now tens of thousands ofpeople have been through it.
It's been around for five, fouryears.
I got to think through that.
I think four or five years nowa long time in today's day and
(11:29):
age and and it's phenomenal andit's amazing and the impact is
just on real.
We recently added some videosto uh, to loan rockio, our
website, where we've got severalleaders talking about, um, the
impact of lead in 30, puttingmanagers through that, that
training, what, what impact it'shad, and they're from numerous
(11:50):
different industries, differentsize companies, and so we've
we've uploaded those to thewebsite If you ever want to
watch those or have need to showsomebody else that.
So we've had that course.
Now we've added three more andthe the, the the kind of leading
one.
It all depends on what yourorganization needs.
One's on decision making andhow that slows organizations
down.
They don't have a framework.
(12:11):
Another one's what we callpower in 30, which is all about
this feeling of powerlessness.
There's nothing that's moresuffocating, that's more
isolating, that's more justdeflating that feeling powerless
in any relationship, in anysituation, in any organization,
in any job, and yet, at the endof the day, it is a decision.
Whoa, really, it's not done toyou what it's counterintuitive?
(12:37):
Yeah, we teach that in Power in30.
And then this one that I'mtalking about today, we call it
Adapt in 30.
In fact, if you go to ourwebsite and you look, it's
listed there.
There's a whole page now whereyou can read about Adapt in 30,
everything I'm going to betalking about in this.
So we've commoditized it now,we've got it on the shelf and we
offer it as training tocompanies.
So enough about that, but let'stalk about, let's talk about
(13:00):
change.
And so first I'm going to talkabout where gosh there's so many
things I want to say.
I'm going to talk about whereyour mindset needs to be Okay,
and then I'm going to talk aboutwhat's going on in the people
that you lead, what's going onin their head and why, and what
you need to do about it in orderto help them lean into the
future, all right.
So, um for you and I've talkedabout this before as far as past
(13:26):
, present, future, right.
If I had to draw a continuum onfigure that I'm in, just
visualize this with me.
I walk up to a, a whiteboard ora flip chart in your office or
in the conference room and Iwrite three words on it.
On the left side, I write past,in the middle, I write present,
on the right, I write future,past on the left, present in the
(13:49):
middle of the flip chart,whiteboard, future on the right.
And then I draw this arrowunderneath it, this line, and
then I ask where's yourorganization?
Is it stuck in the past?
So many of your organizationsare stuck in the past.
Why?
I'm going to get into that in aminute.
Why that exists.
It's human nature.
(14:10):
Okay, the problem is youremployees go there, but your
customers move into the future.
You see the conflict, you seethe challenge, you see the
business, the strategicchallenge for organizations,
because that's why leaders whoaren't, who don't have a game
plan for managing leadingthrough change, suck.
It's why they dragorganizations down, that's why
(14:30):
they lose market share.
And they're human and theydon't know what to do.
Well, they've never beentrained, they don't, they've
never been educated on this.
They're doing the best they can.
So you got to help them, yougot to give them a framework,
you got to give them theseconcepts.
So, past, present, future, whereare we as an organization?
So many are stuck in the past.
And then you've got managers.
In fact, if I had, if I gaveyou 10 direct reports of names,
(14:55):
maybe closer to the present, youwrite four or five names and
then over there, more into thefuture, you'd probably write two
or three names innovators,disruptors, visionaries, people
who are really forward thinkerson your team.
You've got one or two, a couplemaybe, but most of your people
are in present or in the past.
(15:16):
That's a problem.
And then let's talk about whereyou are.
Where are you?
Are you in an organizationwhere you're stuck managing all
of the things of today?
And, by the way, if you're thefactory floor supervisor, that's
exactly where we want you.
By the way, if you're the shiftmanager of the restaurant,
that's exactly where we want you.
(15:37):
We want you thinking only aboutthe present.
We need you here and now andowning this space.
Your job is to be right here inthe present, not in the past,
because if you're stuck going,well, the way we used to run
this restaurant, okay, well,that's really good, but the
world changed seven times sincesince you said that.
(15:59):
You know what I mean.
Like we've spot, the globe hasspot like five times that the
rate it's changing right now.
So I need you in the future or,excuse me, I need you.
I need you in the present.
I need you focused here and nowrather than focused on the past
.
Okay, so we need some people,depending on where you're at on
the org chart, depending on yourorganization in the present,
(16:21):
but many of you who listen tothis podcast, you're, you're in
a position in your organizationor a place in your career where,
if you want to advance the mostsenior executives in our
organizations on that continuum,they cannot succeed if they're
in the present period.
End of episode.
(16:41):
Right, so if your organizationstruggling and I promise you,
one of the challenges that mostlikely exist is you've got a CEO
, you've got a uh an owner,you've got an executive team
that lives so close to thepresent and not enough into the
future that our revenue is notgrowing, our market share is not
(17:03):
growing, our innovation andproducts and all that they
aren't changing in order to keepup with the market.
Why?
Because you have leaders at thetop of the org chart who are
too in the middle of thatcontinuum, the top of the org
chart, who are two in the middleof that continuum.
And if that's and and yourability to climb the org chart
(17:24):
like for me, you guys at leadingour firm I cannot be stuck in
the present.
I've got to be aware of it.
But I've got to be taking ourfirm into the future.
I've got to be thinking about,at a minimum, three to six
months from now, and I reallyneed to be right now, at the
time this episode is coming out,thinking about 2026.
What's really going to driveour revenue?
(17:45):
What are our customers going towant then?
What are the market trends?
Where's the industry going?
What are we going to succeed?
What?
You know?
I'm six to 12 months ahead ofthe organization where I live
mentally on a daily basis.
Now, I don't live 24 hours aday there, but I spend time
there and, and, and, and, and.
(18:07):
Then I spend a few hours in thepresent.
You have to write what's goingon today.
What do I need to be aware of?
What are a couple of things Ineed to fix.
But the way that you getyourself, free yourself up to
think about the future is bybuilding the team around you.
That's the secret, that's theunlock.
If you aren't forward thinkingenough, it's because you don't
have the right people with theright capabilities, the right
(18:31):
speed or the right amount ofbuy-in that they're creating for
you to delegate decisions tothem, and so you can't it can't
free you up.
This was so.
I could tell so many storiesnow, but I got to do this in
under 30 minutes.
Like this was critical to theturnarounds in the media
industry that I led, that ourteam led.
This was the unlock.
(18:51):
This is what occurred to me andI went oh my gosh, I'm stuck in
the present.
So I had to literally turn offthe radio.
I couldn't listen to theproducts that we were producing,
I couldn't listen to the shows.
I had to think about the futureanyway, and the only way I
could do that is building up theleadership team around me that
then managed the present Ineeded in terms of for you all.
(19:14):
I needed the supervisormanaging the front of the house
in the restaurant.
Well, so I could be in the backof the house thinking about
tomorrow or next week sales orthe products that we needed to
get in.
You know what I mean.
I'm trying to put it in termsthat some of you would
understand.
Okay, so that's you.
Now let's talk about thedynamics on your team.
Status quo bias what is that?
(19:35):
Right?
These are terms that are usedin the field of psychology.
They're real, they're in allthe academic whatever.
Status quo bias what does thatmean?
It means that our brains, it'sjust the way we are as humans,
and if you want to get into thedepths of it, you can get into
the depths of it.
Go find chat, gpt or grok orsomething, and just dig into
(19:57):
status quo bias.
You'll find amazing stuffaround it.
Go find chat, gpt or grok orsomething, and just dig into
status quo bias.
You'll find amazing stuffaround it.
If you're super interested inlearning more about that here,
here's the main point of it,though.
We, we as humans, we, when wecame back to the cave from going
out and and and capturing thebeast, we wanted everything at
the cave to look the same.
(20:18):
Why?
Because if it wasn't in place,then we thought oh no, a dragon
is nearby.
Oh no, some creature, uh uh,snuck in here and might, might
threaten us.
Oh no, there's another tribelike ours nearby that's watching
us, or whatever.
Somebody was here.
How would you feel?
(20:39):
You walk into your house, youopen the garage door, you pull
in, you walk in and thingsaren't where they were when you
left the house.
What do you feel?
What goes through your mind?
That is status quo bias.
We have a bias and everyone onyour team has that bias.
(21:00):
They don't choose it, theydon't think about it, they're
just wired that way.
I want everyone in the samechair today as they were
yesterday.
I want every policy to be thesame as it was yesterday.
I want every policy to be thesame as it was yesterday.
I want every customer to behavethe same way today that they
did yesterday.
I want the weather the same.
I want the commute the same.
(21:20):
I want everything the sameStatus quo bias.
Why are our brains wired thatway?
Lots of reasons.
I've gotten to some about thecaveman right Evolution.
Another reason is threatdetection.
When our brain senses change,when something's different, we
(21:41):
feel threatened.
We don't choose to feelthreatened.
It's not conscious, it justhappens.
You change a policy and I'mconcerned now that my customers
aren't going to buy the way theydid before you change a policy.
And I'm concerned now that mycustomers aren't going to buy
the way they did before youchange a policy.
I'm concerned Some of my teammembers are going to be upset.
They might even quit over it.
You change a policy, I think,oh no, how am I going to manage
(22:04):
that?
That's going to require an hourmore of my day or my week.
I am already feeling totallystretched.
I'm not sure what to do aboutit.
I immediately go into lossaversion.
I don't think about the gainthat could create for our
company.
I don't think about how thatcould make my life better.
I don't think about why thatmight be a good thing.
(22:26):
I am wired as a human being tothink about worst case scenario,
the threat that this couldcause.
I walk into the conference room.
There's a new person there.
I've never met her.
She's a threat instantly.
Until she smiles, until shestands up and comes over and
(22:47):
shakes my hand or gives me a hugor whatever, or says says hey,
russ, how are you?
It's so nice to meet you.
I've heard so many good thingsabout you.
Instantly my shoulders drop alittle, my breathing relaxes, I
smile and I go.
Good, she knows I'm amazing.
She's not a threat, I think.
(23:10):
Yet I'm going to kind of watchher over the next 20 minutes in
this meeting to see if she wasget play in me or she really
meant.
You do this all the time.
People around you do this allthe time.
It's loss, aversion, threatdetection, status quo bias.
Now let's go to the other thingthat's going on in our minds
(23:34):
and these things coexist, youall, and it's crazy that they
coexist in the human brain.
We so.
We have.
We have everything I justtalked about.
Let's just call that status quobias.
It covers everything I justsaid.
We're going to use that termmore broadly than it's defined
to cover all of that now at thesame time.
How do you feel if you've got aniphone that's four years old?
(23:56):
How do you feel if you go intoyour closet and you really
haven't shopped for anything newin three or four years?
How do you feel if you go outto get into your truck or your
car or whatever it is, and it'sa 2015.
How do you feel if your housewas built in 1985?
How do you feel if thefurniture sitting in your family
(24:17):
room is 12 years old?
You crave change.
You crave, novelty, the termthat they use in the field of
psychology.
Now aren't you glad that Istudy all this crap so you don't
have to.
But the reason I study it, thereason I dig into this, is
(24:38):
because I see it all the time.
I've seen it over and over andover and over and over again.
I see the emotion around it inorganizations.
I see the leaders strugglingwith it.
I see the companies that arethriving in it.
I see the companies that suckbecause they're moving so slow
or that are challenged.
Right, the companies don't suck, but they're sucking wind,
(25:01):
they're behind the times andyou're cheering for them and yet
they're struggling.
So the psychological term isnovelty seeking.
Look it up, chat, gpt, whatever.
Novelty seeking.
It means we have a strongdesire for new experience,
stimuli or trends.
Another term for it is that wechange crave.
So, as your customers, they want, they want a new product, they
want packaging different, likeput the word new on your
(25:24):
packaging, put your word.
I remember we had this placedown the street from us when we
lived in Utah.
It was a new China buffet, likethe word new was like part of
the permanent sign.
I laughed every time I went by.
I'm like the new.
Well, it was new when theyopened, but not exactly new.
I don't know if the sign stillworked right.
New, so new and improved, right.
(25:46):
How often do you see that inthe grocery store, the newest
product, whatever, new design,new, this extra, that.
So we, we desire that.
And so your customers cravenewness.
Your employees, they, they.
They don't again, they don'teven think about this.
Your team members, they don't.
They.
At the same time, they wanteverything in the same place.
They have this innate,subconscious desire for newness,
(26:09):
for us to be innovative,cutting edge into the future,
trying new things, and so theydon't even realize the
contradiction this is.
And so how the crap am Isupposed to lead through this?
Because it is iron.
Newness and whatever, and theboard wants that, and the
(26:31):
investors want that, theshareholders want it, the
customers want us to innovateand change whatever.
And yet I got the all the.
And my people want, like Italked in the last episode, you
don't leave the same leader inthe chair for five, 15, 10 years
, right?
Your, your organization isbeing held back by that, and
that's all about this innovationand attraction to the new and
(26:52):
the novel that's wired into us.
And so, at the same time.
We have that, and yet we havethe status quo buys.
So how the crap do I managethrough that?
As a manager Number one, you'reaware of it.
So if I was training managers,if I had your team, we'd talk
about that continuum.
If I had your team, we'd talkabout that continuum past,
(27:14):
present, future.
We'd talk about where we are,where the person in your seat
needed to be, who in the room orwho on the team was pulling us
into the future.
I'd zero in on that person.
If that was you, we'd spend alot of time talking about that,
leading us into the future.
What does it look like?
Have you defined it?
What forces are you up against?
Why are you, why do you need totake us there?
All of that.
(27:34):
And then, and then we talk aboutthese dynamics, status quo bias
and and this change crave.
And then we would talk aboutdisruption, the power of
disruption, and how it justcauses everyone's brain to freak
out because of status quo bias,and yet how it's a good thing
because of change crave or thisnovelty seeking.
(27:58):
And then we talk about how, andmaybe I'll maybe I'll get into
this in the next episode.
Uh, in fact, yeah, let's do twoepisodes on this.
There's just too much to talkabout.
You all and I.
I got to shut up because we'reat 30 minutes and because I want
to talk about these threestages that you need to lead
people through as it pertains tochange.
So disruption happens and youset off all the status quo
(28:24):
alarms and yet it's good becauseof the change crave or novelty
seeking, and because the marketand your customers demand
novelty, newness, innovation.
So how do I lead people throughthat?
Let's dive into the tacticalaspects of this in the next
episode, but hopefully I'vegiven you a lot to think about.
(28:47):
You've got to have a strategywall.
You've got to be thinking abouthow you're positioned as a
leader.
What are your unique abilities?
What are you?
How are you, what's your planfor your mindset in leading the
organization through all of this?
Because all of these forces areat work.
(29:09):
And the last comment I'd make inthis episode before uh, I'm
literally going to hit stop andjust go immediately into the
next episode, which will comeout a few days later than this
one Um, at the time we'rereleasing it.
But the last I'd share with youis how stinking lucky are we to
be alive and to be leaders ofthis organization or in this
(29:33):
industry.
At this time, we are sofortunate that there's so much
movement, that we've got so manytools in our toolbox to be able
to lead people through change.
And the fact that you'relistening to things, you're
digging in trying to improveyour ability to lead others,
means you're listening to things.
(29:54):
You're digging in, trying toimprove your ability to lead
others, means you're going tohave, you're going to be a step
ahead, because all those otherleaders you're driving by or
walking by, they're not thinkingabout this and they're going to
get left in the dust.
We'll talk more in the nextepisode of the lead in 30
podcast.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Share this episode with a colleague, your team or a
friend.
Tap on the share button andtext the link.
Thanks for listening to theLead in 30 podcast with Russ
Hill You're listening to.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Lead in 30.
What is your strategy , what's your game plan?
How do you think about how tomanage change as a leader,
because you've got these twoconflicting human desires and
you've got a world that'srotating, changing faster than
ever.
Do you have a game plan for it?
Let's talk about it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
This is the Lead in 30 podcast with Russ Hill.
You cannot be serious.
Strengthen your ability to leadin less than 30 minutes.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
We don't even realize that we do it, and yet it
constantly happens.
Your brain's doing it, mybrain's doing it, everybody on
your team, their minds areengaged in this as well.
Let me give you the scenario.
So I walk in, I walk into theoffice yeah, I know, this is
(00:54):
like a 1985 story, becausethere's like an office and we go
to it.
I'm just playing with you.
I think that, like maybe 30years from now, that's how we'll
describe it Like.
Do you remember the time whenthere were like these office
buildings and people went andworked?
Like it's so interesting tothink about the future, isn't it
(01:14):
?
Anyway, in this hybrid day andage and I know there are many of
you who, every day, you'restill in the office or you work
in an environment a hospital,restaurant, a factory, whatever
it might be and you're thereevery day and everybody needs to
be but you're the exception,not the rule the vast majority
of people are now in this hybridenvironment.
My son, who's graduating fromcollege in just a matter of days
(01:38):
he got a job at a bighealthcare company in the state
where he's graduating from, andwhen he went to work for the
first time in the last few days,they gave him his office
computer and then they gave himan entire kit, if you will, all
(01:58):
of this equipment for home likelights and cameras and different
switchers for whatever, andmultiple.
I think he's got like two orthree monitors at least I think
he said three and all.
Like he's got all this, that,that standard now at that
company, this, this, this packet, if you will, or this equipment
(02:19):
, this gear for at home, likethat that.
There's nobody who got that in2018.
Okay, well, maybe like a fewpeople at Google and a few high
tech companies, but that waslargely unheard of.
And yet now here's my um,here's my son going out into the
business world and that'sthat's his very first job, first
(02:42):
job, you know, career wiseafter college, and that's that's
what they do.
Because he's he's hybrid he'sin the office a few days a week
and then he's at home a few daysa week.
And, by the way, that wascritically important to him at
his age, by the way, um, thinkabout that too.
That's so unique to him, isn'tnot even, like everybody, his
(03:05):
age.
That's just what they want.
It's what they expect.
You're dealing with it, right,you?
You know what I'm talking about.
If you recruit or interview orhire people.
I don't again, I don't care theindustry you're.
You're sensing that anyway.
Um, so let's, let's say I walkinto the office and I notice
(03:27):
that some things are different,like maybe somebody's the
furniture has been moved around,maybe somebody's office isn't
where it was, like theirnameplate is moved, or maybe
their stuff is gone.
What does my brain, what doesyour brain do in that moment?
(03:47):
They call that status quo bias.
They call that fight or flight,right.
They call that threat detection, and so I want to start with
that.
And then I want to talk abouthow that it conflicts with our
desire for change.
And then we're going to spendsome time talking about how are
(04:10):
you managing this?
Like, what's your game plan formaking sure that you're taking
your organization into thefuture?
You're innovating, you'reforward looking, forward,
forward thinking.
You're not stuck in the presentand and you're you're helping
the organization and maybe theleaders who report into you
(04:33):
manage through changeeffectively.
They call this agility,adaptability, right?
It's one of the most in demandleadership development skills
right now, according to all theresearch.
Why?
Because the world's changinglike at an insane pace.
So do you have the ability?
Do I have the ability?
Have we trained the leaders inour organization to manage
(04:56):
change, to lead through change?
That's what we're talking aboutin this episode.
Welcome in to the Lead in 30podcast.
In less than 30 minutes, we'llgive you a framework, a model,
an idea, best practices story,something to think.
That's what we're talking aboutin this episode.
Welcome in to the lead in 30podcast.
In less than 30 minutes, we'llgive you a framework, a model,
an idea, best practices story,something to think about as you
work to strengthen your abilityto lead others.
Nothing has more impact in yourlife on your ability to earn
(05:16):
income, to scale results, to behappy, to lead others.
All these things Then your yourability to lead right.
It affects everything in life,and so I'm glad that you're here
listening to a podcast aboutleadership development.
I hope that you've got amultifaceted approach to try to
develop yourself as a leader.
I hope you're paying to go tomastermind groups.
(05:39):
I hope you're in networkinggroups.
I hope you're going toconferences.
I hope you're logging in andbuying courses.
I hope you've got a coach or aconsultant or somebody that
you're tapping into, challengesyour thinking and ask lots of
questions.
I hope that you're you're.
You've got a mentor.
I hope you've got people thatyou, you connect with, that are
helping you think differently.
If you do, your growth curve issteep and that's awesome.
(06:02):
Well, if you actually pursue orimplement some of what they
share with you.
If you want to find out moreabout our firm, go to loanrockio
.
There's a lead in 30 course.
It's the foundational course,the first one that we offered in
the leadership developmentspace, which is all about the
three core fundamentalcapabilities of a leader who
(06:24):
scales, what did they do andwhat what's most required.
We boiled it down to threethings and uh, it's in that.
It's in that lead in 30 courseat lone rockio.
We only offer it for fororganizations.
You can't just take it on yourown.
You've got a, you've got to buyit for 10, 20, 30, 50, 100
managers at your organization tobe able to go through it.
(06:44):
And our book, our book on uhthat's centered around that
course because it's a foundationof our executive consulting
company as well.
That book is coming out thisyear.
It is the first draft, is done,it's written, it's all there.
I think it's 37,000 words,something like that.
(07:06):
We've been working on it forthree years.
Yeah, three years.
We've had a team of differentwriters.
We've got a head ghostwriter onit now, who's phenomenal, and I
am so excited for you to haveaccess to that book.
It's at a whole.
It's at a whole different levelthan anything we've ever done
before.
(07:26):
It's our fourth book and it'sby far going to be this one.
You all, we wanted it to bejust timeless, to be, um,
something that ages well, thatpeople can go back to 20 years
from now, and and and theprinciples will apply.
And we're we're just so, soexcited about it.
(07:47):
So more on that to come soon.
Okay, so change.
Let's talk about change, andthere's so much that we could
say about it.
The the.
The reason that I want to talkabout this is a couple different
reasons.
Number one the world that welive in, the marketplace that we
operate in, the society aroundus, the workforce that we lead,
(08:12):
the customers that we serve.
The amount of change happening,the amount of change demanded,
the amount of agility requiredis off the charts.
It's not even close.
It's not even close to what wethought it was in 2019.
Not like we thought.
We thought.
We thought the world waschanging quickly in 2018 and
(08:34):
2017.
Right, we thought, man, you gotto have agility.
You got to be adaptable, yougot to be able to lead through.
We didn't even know the half ofit.
I mean, when you talk about whatI was talking about just a
minute ago, the hybrid, all thechanges in the workplace, then
you think about customers, thenyou think about tariffs, then
you think about AI, then youthink about, I mean, all of
(08:55):
these things together, you mixthem in a bowl and you're like
holy crap, there's a lot,there's a lot of variables
coming at us as leaders today.
And so if you're part of anorganization that moves like
it's in a freaking school zone,barely creeping a lot like you
are gonna be left in the dust.
(09:16):
Do you have to like clean yourglasses off a bunch because
they're just covered in dust,left by your competitors and
your customers in the marketthat are just zooming by you?
You can't do that.
You can't be that leader who'sgetting left behind and yet, at
the same time, you can't be theleader.
(09:37):
That's just it's flavor of themonth, that it's a million
different things and we're justconstantly we're doing this org
reshuffle and that change andthat thing, and and now you got
change fatigue inside yourorganization, because not only
are so many things happening outthere but we like we can't.
We can't pick a strategy inhere.
We're constantly just it lookslike we got no strategic ability
(10:00):
whatsoever.
So you don't want to be thatleader?
Oh my gosh, have I worked forthat leader before?
Have I consulted that leaderbefore?
So much so, both of them theextreme.
We don't want to be at the endof that continuum.
On either side, like addicted tochange I constantly mix it up.
Every day is somethingdifferent or on the other end,
that's like all right, walkinginto the academic library where
(10:25):
it's quiet and we move at asnail's pace, right?
So I'm going to give you a.
There's just way more than Icould fit in 30 minutes in this
episode.
We've created a whole course.
This is our.
You know I told you in the lastepisode that we launched three
new courses this year and thelast few months we went from
lead in 30, which has been theonly course that's, you know,
(10:46):
available off the shelf.
Basically, again, just to reset.
So everybody's aware.
You know we took everythingwe've been doing with executives
at these large fortune 500companies for the last 20 years
and we looked at what are themain core models and how can we
commoditize and make themavailable, put them on a shelf
that people can just buy, takeit up to the cash register and
(11:07):
buy, and that can be taught byHR people or L&D people or
trainers inside companies?
How can we create thatcurriculum?
And so the very first thing wedid was we created Lead in 30.
And now tens of thousands ofpeople have been through it.
It's been around for five, fouryears.
I got to think through that.
I think four or five years nowa long time in today's day and
(11:29):
age and and it's phenomenal andit's amazing and the impact is
just on real.
We recently added some videosto uh, to loan rockio, our
website, where we've got severalleaders talking about, um, the
impact of lead in 30, puttingmanagers through that, that
training, what, what impact it'shad, and they're from numerous
(11:50):
different industries, differentsize companies, and so we've
we've uploaded those to thewebsite If you ever want to
watch those or have need to showsomebody else that.
So we've had that course.
Now we've added three more andthe the, the the kind of leading
one.
It all depends on what yourorganization needs.
One's on decision making andhow that slows organizations
down.
They don't have a framework.
(12:11):
Another one's what we callpower in 30, which is all about
this feeling of powerlessness.
There's nothing that's moresuffocating, that's more
isolating, that's more justdeflating that feeling powerless
in any relationship, in anysituation, in any organization,
in any job, and yet, at the endof the day, it is a decision.
Whoa, really, it's not done toyou what it's counterintuitive?
(12:37):
Yeah, we teach that in Power in30.
And then this one that I'mtalking about today, we call it
Adapt in 30.
In fact, if you go to ourwebsite and you look, it's
listed there.
There's a whole page now whereyou can read about Adapt in 30,
everything I'm going to betalking about in this.
So we've commoditized it now,we've got it on the shelf and we
offer it as training tocompanies.
So enough about that, but let'stalk about, let's talk about
(13:00):
change.
And so first I'm going to talkabout where gosh there's so many
things I want to say.
I'm going to talk about whereyour mindset needs to be Okay,
and then I'm going to talk aboutwhat's going on in the people
that you lead, what's going onin their head and why, and what
you need to do about it in orderto help them lean into the
future, all right.
So, um for you and I've talkedabout this before as far as past
(13:26):
, present, future, right.
If I had to draw a continuum onfigure that I'm in, just
visualize this with me.
I walk up to a, a whiteboard ora flip chart in your office or
in the conference room and Iwrite three words on it.
On the left side, I write past,in the middle, I write present,
on the right, I write future,past on the left, present in the
(13:49):
middle of the flip chart,whiteboard, future on the right.
And then I draw this arrowunderneath it, this line, and
then I ask where's yourorganization?
Is it stuck in the past?
So many of your organizationsare stuck in the past.
Why?
I'm going to get into that in aminute.
Why that exists.
It's human nature.
(14:10):
Okay, the problem is youremployees go there, but your
customers move into the future.
You see the conflict, you seethe challenge, you see the
business, the strategicchallenge for organizations,
because that's why leaders whoaren't, who don't have a game
plan for managing leadingthrough change, suck.
It's why they dragorganizations down, that's why
(14:30):
they lose market share.
And they're human and theydon't know what to do.
Well, they've never beentrained, they don't, they've
never been educated on this.
They're doing the best they can.
So you got to help them, yougot to give them a framework,
you got to give them theseconcepts.
So, past, present, future, whereare we as an organization?
So many are stuck in the past.
And then you've got managers.
In fact, if I had, if I gaveyou 10 direct reports of names,
(14:55):
maybe closer to the present, youwrite four or five names and
then over there, more into thefuture, you'd probably write two
or three names innovators,disruptors, visionaries, people
who are really forward thinkerson your team.
You've got one or two, a couplemaybe, but most of your people
are in present or in the past.
(15:16):
That's a problem.
And then let's talk about whereyou are.
Where are you?
Are you in an organizationwhere you're stuck managing all
of the things of today?
And, by the way, if you're thefactory floor supervisor, that's
exactly where we want you.
By the way, if you're the shiftmanager of the restaurant,
that's exactly where we want you.
(15:37):
We want you thinking only aboutthe present.
We need you here and now andowning this space.
Your job is to be right here inthe present, not in the past,
because if you're stuck going,well, the way we used to run
this restaurant, okay, well,that's really good, but the
world changed seven times sincesince you said that.
(15:59):
You know what I mean.
Like we've spot, the globe hasspot like five times that the
rate it's changing right now.
So I need you in the future or,excuse me, I need you.
I need you in the present.
I need you focused here and nowrather than focused on the past
.
Okay, so we need some people,depending on where you're at on
the org chart, depending on yourorganization in the present,
(16:21):
but many of you who listen tothis podcast, you're, you're in
a position in your organizationor a place in your career where,
if you want to advance the mostsenior executives in our
organizations on that continuum,they cannot succeed if they're
in the present period.
End of episode.
(16:41):
Right, so if your organizationstruggling and I promise you,
one of the challenges that mostlikely exist is you've got a CEO
, you've got a uh an owner,you've got an executive team
that lives so close to thepresent and not enough into the
future that our revenue is notgrowing, our market share is not
(17:03):
growing, our innovation andproducts and all that they
aren't changing in order to keepup with the market.
Why?
Because you have leaders at thetop of the org chart who are
too in the middle of thatcontinuum, the top of the org
chart, who are two in the middleof that continuum.
And if that's and and yourability to climb the org chart
(17:24):
like for me, you guys at leadingour firm I cannot be stuck in
the present.
I've got to be aware of it.
But I've got to be taking ourfirm into the future.
I've got to be thinking about,at a minimum, three to six
months from now, and I reallyneed to be right now, at the
time this episode is coming out,thinking about 2026.
What's really going to driveour revenue?
(17:45):
What are our customers going towant then?
What are the market trends?
Where's the industry going?
What are we going to succeed?
What?
You know?
I'm six to 12 months ahead ofthe organization where I live
mentally on a daily basis.
Now, I don't live 24 hours aday there, but I spend time
there and, and, and, and, and.
(18:07):
Then I spend a few hours in thepresent.
You have to write what's goingon today.
What do I need to be aware of?
What are a couple of things Ineed to fix.
But the way that you getyourself, free yourself up to
think about the future is bybuilding the team around you.
That's the secret, that's theunlock.
If you aren't forward thinkingenough, it's because you don't
have the right people with theright capabilities, the right
(18:31):
speed or the right amount ofbuy-in that they're creating for
you to delegate decisions tothem, and so you can't it can't
free you up.
This was so.
I could tell so many storiesnow, but I got to do this in
under 30 minutes.
Like this was critical to theturnarounds in the media
industry that I led, that ourteam led.
This was the unlock.
(18:51):
This is what occurred to me andI went oh my gosh, I'm stuck in
the present.
So I had to literally turn offthe radio.
I couldn't listen to theproducts that we were producing,
I couldn't listen to the shows.
I had to think about the futureanyway, and the only way I
could do that is building up theleadership team around me that
then managed the present Ineeded in terms of for you all.
(19:14):
I needed the supervisormanaging the front of the house
in the restaurant.
Well, so I could be in the backof the house thinking about
tomorrow or next week sales orthe products that we needed to
get in.
You know what I mean.
I'm trying to put it in termsthat some of you would
understand.
Okay, so that's you.
Now let's talk about thedynamics on your team.
Status quo bias what is that?
(19:35):
Right?
These are terms that are usedin the field of psychology.
They're real, they're in allthe academic whatever.
Status quo bias what does thatmean?
It means that our brains, it'sjust the way we are as humans,
and if you want to get into thedepths of it, you can get into
the depths of it.
Go find chat, gpt or grok orsomething, and just dig into
(19:57):
status quo bias.
You'll find amazing stuffaround it.
Go find chat, gpt or grok orsomething, and just dig into
status quo bias.
You'll find amazing stuffaround it.
If you're super interested inlearning more about that here,
here's the main point of it,though.
We, we as humans, we, when wecame back to the cave from going
out and and and capturing thebeast, we wanted everything at
the cave to look the same.
(20:18):
Why?
Because if it wasn't in place,then we thought oh no, a dragon
is nearby.
Oh no, some creature, uh uh,snuck in here and might, might
threaten us.
Oh no, there's another tribelike ours nearby that's watching
us, or whatever.
Somebody was here.
How would you feel?
(20:39):
You walk into your house, youopen the garage door, you pull
in, you walk in and thingsaren't where they were when you
left the house.
What do you feel?
What goes through your mind?
That is status quo bias.
We have a bias and everyone onyour team has that bias.
(21:00):
They don't choose it, theydon't think about it, they're
just wired that way.
I want everyone in the samechair today as they were
yesterday.
I want every policy to be thesame as it was yesterday.
I want every policy to be thesame as it was yesterday.
I want every customer to behavethe same way today that they
did yesterday.
I want the weather the same.
I want the commute the same.
(21:20):
I want everything the sameStatus quo bias.
Why are our brains wired thatway?
Lots of reasons.
I've gotten to some about thecaveman right Evolution.
Another reason is threatdetection.
When our brain senses change,when something's different, we
(21:41):
feel threatened.
We don't choose to feelthreatened.
It's not conscious, it justhappens.
You change a policy and I'mconcerned now that my customers
aren't going to buy the way theydid before you change a policy.
And I'm concerned now that mycustomers aren't going to buy
the way they did before youchange a policy.
I'm concerned Some of my teammembers are going to be upset.
They might even quit over it.
You change a policy, I think,oh no, how am I going to manage
(22:04):
that?
That's going to require an hourmore of my day or my week.
I am already feeling totallystretched.
I'm not sure what to do aboutit.
I immediately go into lossaversion.
I don't think about the gainthat could create for our
company.
I don't think about how thatcould make my life better.
I don't think about why thatmight be a good thing.
(22:26):
I am wired as a human being tothink about worst case scenario,
the threat that this couldcause.
I walk into the conference room.
There's a new person there.
I've never met her.
She's a threat instantly.
Until she smiles, until shestands up and comes over and
(22:47):
shakes my hand or gives me a hugor whatever, or says says hey,
russ, how are you?
It's so nice to meet you.
I've heard so many good thingsabout you.
Instantly my shoulders drop alittle, my breathing relaxes, I
smile and I go.
Good, she knows I'm amazing.
She's not a threat, I think.
(23:10):
Yet I'm going to kind of watchher over the next 20 minutes in
this meeting to see if she wasget play in me or she really
meant.
You do this all the time.
People around you do this allthe time.
It's loss, aversion, threatdetection, status quo bias.
Now let's go to the other thingthat's going on in our minds
(23:34):
and these things coexist, youall, and it's crazy that they
coexist in the human brain.
We so.
We have.
We have everything I justtalked about.
Let's just call that status quobias.
It covers everything I justsaid.
We're going to use that termmore broadly than it's defined
to cover all of that now at thesame time.
How do you feel if you've got aniphone that's four years old?
(23:56):
How do you feel if you go intoyour closet and you really
haven't shopped for anything newin three or four years?
How do you feel if you go outto get into your truck or your
car or whatever it is, and it'sa 2015.
How do you feel if your housewas built in 1985?
How do you feel if thefurniture sitting in your family
(24:17):
room is 12 years old?
You crave change.
You crave, novelty, the termthat they use in the field of
psychology.
Now aren't you glad that Istudy all this crap so you don't
have to.
But the reason I study it, thereason I dig into this, is
(24:38):
because I see it all the time.
I've seen it over and over andover and over and over again.
I see the emotion around it inorganizations.
I see the leaders strugglingwith it.
I see the companies that arethriving in it.
I see the companies that suckbecause they're moving so slow
or that are challenged.
Right, the companies don't suck, but they're sucking wind,
(25:01):
they're behind the times andyou're cheering for them and yet
they're struggling.
So the psychological term isnovelty seeking.
Look it up, chat, gpt, whatever.
Novelty seeking.
It means we have a strongdesire for new experience,
stimuli or trends.
Another term for it is that wechange crave.
So, as your customers, they want, they want a new product, they
want packaging different, likeput the word new on your
(25:24):
packaging, put your word.
I remember we had this placedown the street from us when we
lived in Utah.
It was a new China buffet, likethe word new was like part of
the permanent sign.
I laughed every time I went by.
I'm like the new.
Well, it was new when theyopened, but not exactly new.
I don't know if the sign stillworked right.
New, so new and improved, right.
(25:46):
How often do you see that inthe grocery store, the newest
product, whatever, new design,new, this extra, that.
So we, we desire that.
And so your customers cravenewness.
Your employees, they, they.
They don't again, they don'teven think about this.
Your team members, they don't.
They.
At the same time, they wanteverything in the same place.
They have this innate,subconscious desire for newness,
(26:09):
for us to be innovative,cutting edge into the future,
trying new things, and so theydon't even realize the
contradiction this is.
And so how the crap am Isupposed to lead through this?
Because it is iron.
Newness and whatever, and theboard wants that, and the
(26:31):
investors want that, theshareholders want it, the
customers want us to innovateand change whatever.
And yet I got the all the.
And my people want, like Italked in the last episode, you
don't leave the same leader inthe chair for five, 15, 10 years
, right?
Your, your organization isbeing held back by that, and
that's all about this innovationand attraction to the new and
(26:52):
the novel that's wired into us.
And so, at the same time.
We have that, and yet we havethe status quo buys.
So how the crap do I managethrough that?
As a manager Number one, you'reaware of it.
So if I was training managers,if I had your team, we'd talk
about that continuum.
If I had your team, we'd talkabout that continuum past,
(27:14):
present, future.
We'd talk about where we are,where the person in your seat
needed to be, who in the room orwho on the team was pulling us
into the future.
I'd zero in on that person.
If that was you, we'd spend alot of time talking about that,
leading us into the future.
What does it look like?
Have you defined it?
What forces are you up against?
Why are you, why do you need totake us there?
All of that.
(27:34):
And then, and then we talk aboutthese dynamics, status quo bias
and and this change crave.
And then we would talk aboutdisruption, the power of
disruption, and how it justcauses everyone's brain to freak
out because of status quo bias,and yet how it's a good thing
because of change crave or thisnovelty seeking.
(27:58):
And then we talk about how, andmaybe I'll maybe I'll get into
this in the next episode.
Uh, in fact, yeah, let's do twoepisodes on this.
There's just too much to talkabout.
You all and I.
I got to shut up because we'reat 30 minutes and because I want
to talk about these threestages that you need to lead
people through as it pertains tochange.
So disruption happens and youset off all the status quo
(28:24):
alarms and yet it's good becauseof the change crave or novelty
seeking, and because the marketand your customers demand
novelty, newness, innovation.
So how do I lead people throughthat?
Let's dive into the tacticalaspects of this in the next
episode, but hopefully I'vegiven you a lot to think about.
(28:47):
You've got to have a strategywall.
You've got to be thinking abouthow you're positioned as a
leader.
What are your unique abilities?
What are you?
How are you, what's your planfor your mindset in leading the
organization through all of this?
Because all of these forces areat work.
(29:09):
And the last comment I'd make inthis episode before uh, I'm
literally going to hit stop andjust go immediately into the
next episode, which will comeout a few days later than this
one Um, at the time we'rereleasing it.
But the last I'd share with youis how stinking lucky are we to
be alive and to be leaders ofthis organization or in this
(29:33):
industry.
At this time, we are sofortunate that there's so much
movement, that we've got so manytools in our toolbox to be able
to lead people through change.
And the fact that you'relistening to things, you're
digging in trying to improveyour ability to lead others,
means you're listening to things.
(29:54):
You're digging in, trying toimprove your ability to lead
others, means you're going tohave, you're going to be a step
ahead, because all those otherleaders you're driving by or
walking by, they're not thinkingabout this and they're going to
get left in the dust.
We'll talk more in the nextepisode of the lead in 30
podcast.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Share this episode with a colleague, your team or a
friend.
Tap on the share button andtext the link.
Thanks for listening to theLead in 30 podcast with Russ
Hill You're listening to.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Lead in 30.
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