The Life of Sister Dantzel White Nelson | An Interview with Marjorie Nelson Lowder

This is a rebroadcast. The episode originally ran in February 2024. Marjorie Nelson Lowder discusses the remarkable life and enduring influence of her mother, Dantzel White Nelson. Born and raised in Salt Lake City, Utah, Marjorie grew up as the 9th of 10 children of President Russell M. Nelson and Sister Dantzel White Nelson, surrounded by music, books, art, faith and lots of love. She loves to spend time creating, being in nature and gathering with her family and friends. She is an artist, vocalist, and the author/illustrator of a book based on a favorite lullaby her mother used to sing, Pudding on the Moon. This conversation honors Dantzel's legacy as a deeply-faithful Latter-day Saint, wife, and mother, emphasizing the principles and traditions she established that created a foundation of unity and spiritual strength for her family. Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community Links Pudding on the Moon Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Highlights In this episode, Kurt interviews Marjorie, the youngest daughter of President Russell M. Nelson, to honor her late mother, Dantzel White Nelson. The conversation explores Dantzel's life, her influence on the family, and the legacy she left behind, particularly through a children's book Marjorie authored inspired by a lullaby her mother used to sing. 00:02:55 - Honoring Dantzel White Nelson Discussion on the life and legacy of President Nelson's first wife. 00:04:28 - Marjorie's Book: Putting on the Moon Introduction to Marjorie's children's book inspired by her mother. 00:05:41 - Marjorie's Early Memories Marjorie shares her early memories of her mother and family traditions. 00:08:11 - Dantzel's Background Details about Dantzel White Nelson's upbringing and education. 00:09:50 - Courtship of Dantzel and Russell Nelson The romantic story of how Dantzel and Russell Nelson met and fell in love. 00:10:36 - Family Life and Traditions Insights into the family dynamics and traditions created by Dantzel. 00:12:32 - Family Olympics and Celebrations Description of unique family events and celebrations organized by Dantzel. 00:14:19 - Creating Special Memories Marjorie's reflections on how her mother made family gatherings memorable. 00:16:26 - Navigating a Large Family Challenges and dynamics of growing up in a family with many daughters. 00:19:00 - Father's Medical Career Insights into the life of being the daughter of a surgeon and its impact on family life. 00:22:26 - Church Callings and Choir Discussion of Dantzel's involvement in church callings and her time with the Tabernacle Choir. 00:25:23 - Singing Legacy Marjorie's connection to her mother's musical legacy and family singing traditions. 00:30:11 - Becoming an Apostle Marjorie's experience learning about her father's call to be an apostle. 00:32:04 - Adjusting to New Roles How Dantzel adapted to her new role as the wife of an apostle. 00:33:31 - Mother-Daughter Relationship Reflections on Marjorie's relationship with her mother as a young adult. 00:35:05 - Dantzel's Calm Demeanor Stories highlighting Dantzel's patience and temperament as a mother. 00:39:10 - Coping with Loss Marjorie's thoughts on her mother's sudden passing and the support received. 00:41:44 - Legacy and Remembrance The importance of sharing stories and memories of Dantzel with others. The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy,

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
Hey. If you think leading saints is just
a podcast, well, that's a big mistake. We
are so much more than a podcast. We've
established online a leading saints community.
That's right. If you go to leadingsaints.org/zion,
you'll be pushed towards a community online where
the discussion is really happening. Sure. You're gonna
listen to this episode. You'll get some great
tips and ideas and hear a thought provoking

(00:27):
discussion, but the conversation doesn't end there. We,
go over to the Leading Saints community and
talk further there. You can make comments. You
can ask questions, and we'll probably do some
follow-up live streams with maybe the same guest,
but a lot is going on at the
Leading Saints community. So check out the show
notes for the link, leadingsaints.org/zion,
and join the Leading Saints community.

(00:59):
I would be rude if I didn't take
the time to explain to the newer listeners
what Leading Saints is. Leading Saints is an
organization that started as a hobby blog in
2010
and then really caught some traction in 2014
when the podcast started. We talk about all
things leadership in the context of The Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. We
aren't owned by the church, but we have

(01:20):
a great relationship with them and always aim
to be faith promoting even though we talk
about the tough topics. My name is Kurt
Frankem. I'm generally the voice you hear as
the host of the podcast. I've tried to
get other hosts, but people demand my smooth
tone, and I really enjoy it. Check out
leadingsaints.org
to really get into the weeds of what
Leading Saints is and learn all about our

(01:41):
mission to help Latter day Saints be better
prepared to lead. The following episode is a
throwback episode, one that was published previously and
was extremely popular. To see the details of
when this was originally published, see the show
notes. Enjoy this throwback episode.

(02:02):
Well, this is a little different but a
fun episode where I chat with Marjorie Nelson
Louder, who's become a close friend. Her and
her husband, Brad Louder, phenomenal
people. Brad is actually a future guest of
the Leading Saints podcast whether he likes it
or not. I'm getting him in here. We're
gonna talk about some other fun stuff. But
Marjorie is actually the youngest daughter of president

(02:24):
Nelson, and her mother was Dansel White Nelson.
Now we had opportunity to hang out. We,
are cruise buddies as we call it. We've,
spoken on different Latter day Saint cruises and
gotten to know each other, their stories, and
hearing you just about the the Nelson family
is inspiring. Obviously, we love President Nelson,
his faith, his vision, his direction as a

(02:44):
leader of our church and a living prophet.
And as we were talking, the idea came
up that, you know, it would be interesting
to spend an episode on his first wife,
Dansel,
who was a deeply you'll notice by the
end of this, you will know without a
doubt how such a deeply faithful
saint she was. As many of you know,

(03:04):
her death and passing away came suddenly to
President Nelson. He told about the story of
her losing her life suddenly and and breaking
his heart, obviously losing his his, eternal companion
and mortality. So I sat down with Marjorie,
and we just explored the life of Dan
Salt Nelson,
who obviously
engaged with the gospel and our beloved prophet
in in such unique ways,

(03:25):
as a partner going through life, raising kids,
being the wife of a of a surgeon,
how they balance things. And, we just wanna
honor her. And many times in our leadership
tradition,
the wives of apostles or prophets sometimes fade
into the background.
And we want to highlight those women who
had such a profound influence on those leaders
and how they lead. And so here's our

(03:47):
attempt to do that. I hope you enjoy
this, and we so much
appreciate the Nelson family and sharing
their father, grandfather
with us as a church, as we look
to him as our prophet. No doubt the
expense that is on a family
as they share their their father with the
world. And so I'm so grateful for Marjorie

(04:07):
taking this time as we can focus on
the other half of president Nelson, his first
wife, Dansel White Nelson.
And another way that Marjorie has honored her
mother is written a book, a children's book
focused on a sweet lullaby that, her mother
would often sing to her and and the
other children. And so we'll talk about that
book as well. So here's my interview with

(04:28):
Marjorie Nelson Louder.
Today, I have the opportunity to sit down
with Marjorie Nelson Louder. How are you, Marjorie?
I'm great. Thank you. Awesome. Thanks for having
me. Yeah. Now we are we're cruise buddies,
right?
Yes. We've been on more than one cruise

(04:49):
together with our spouses and our, what we
call our cruise family. Cause, we both have
the opportunity to be speakers on
some past cruises and maybe some future cruises,
but you have another set of cruises coming
up as well. So how do you feel
about that? Yes. It's fun. I love meeting
the people and it's a great, great experience
for sure to do with my sweet husband.

(05:11):
Yes. So now your maiden name is Nelson,
and that's a very well known name in
our faith tradition because you are the youngest
daughter of President Nelson? Yes. Nice. And and
that's nine daughters. Mhmm. And then your little
brother just below you. Yeah. The caboose. Our
baby brother. Nice. Russ, who's taller
than all of us. Nice. Were your parents

(05:31):
really, like,
excited to get finally get the boy or
Yes. Yes. Nice. That's awesome. So you've written
a book called Putting on the Moon that
is a children's book and it is inspired
by your mother. And we were chatting on
the cruise. We thought it would be so
fun to take maybe an episode on Leading
Saints and just honor your mom, Dansel White
Nelson. Right? And

(05:53):
learn more about her because sometimes, you know,
how long ago did she pass away?
She passed away in 02/2005.
Oh, wow. And so a lot of people
don't know about the these stalwart wives behind
the scenes at times, but really there's a
partnership happening there. So in the book, maybe
explain the connection with your mother in the
book that you wrote. Yes. That's based on

(06:14):
a
lullaby that my mother used to sing to
us at night.
One
tradition that I loved was she would sing
to us at night. She had a beautiful
singing voice
and
she had a whole repertoire that we loved,
but this was one of our favorites and
was putting on the moon. And so, I
always

(06:35):
I'm an artist and I always wanted to
illustrate a children's book. And so I thought
for several years that that that song would
be a fun one to do in a
book. Now, is this a, like a song
that she wrote or is it just been
just was in the family forever? I don't
think so. But, and my dad couldn't remember

(06:55):
where she got it from. I asked her
my cousins on her side, none of their
parents sing it. So either
she made it up or
it was maybe
a song that she learned in her vocal
lessons,
in her vocal coaching. Oh, wow. A lot
of times she had some of the other
songs that we know came from like Chinese

(07:18):
Yeah. Songs. Yeah. Wow. So was she like,
did she was she professionally trained in vocal
performance or what was that background?
Yes, she had training and
she was
a beautiful
soprano singer
and she had a full ride scholarship to
Juilliard. Oh, really? But that she didn't end

(07:38):
up taking because she ended up marrying my
dad. Wow. Kathryn And deciding that
having a family and
a mother was her full time ambition. Like,
that's what she wanted to do. She was
also a school teacher, so
she taught school for,
well, some of it was in when she
was in Salt Lake. So, I don't know

(07:58):
how many kids she had, so. Yeah. That
was before I was born. Yeah. That's not
important. No, I'm just teasing. So, maybe just
give us a little bit of early background
as far as where she was born and
raised and what her growing up years were
like. She was born and raised in Perry,
Utah,
and
right up by Brigham City, just north of
Salt Lake. And

(08:20):
then,
she went to the University of Utah and
she was in a musical where she met
my dad and they fell in love and
Yeah. And the rest is history. I mean,
it's That's all she wrote. So, I mean,
is there a story for like, was your
father in the musical or like how did
that, what was the interaction like? He had
a friend or fellow in his, he was

(08:42):
studying pre med, you know, and he was
in Madison.
And,
he had someone trying to talk him into
he had done like in high school, they
had done musicals and plays. He has a
great voice and perfect pitch and so he's
a good candidate and he was, you know,
handsome.
So, his buddy was trying to talk him

(09:03):
into it and he said, Just come by
and see what you think about, you know,
they're having an early rehearsal. They're just getting
things going. But there are still a few
piece, you know, people that they need to
cast. And so, he came and at that
time, my mom was on the stage
practicing her part or whatever and he said,
who's that?
And they said, that's Stansell White. She's

(09:26):
doing the female lead and he said, Okay,
I'll sign up.
Nice.
So, probably one of the most important decisions
of his life. Right? Right. Wow, that's awesome.
And anything that they've any stories they tell
about their courtship or anything like that? I
think I remember
something about,
I think he proposed in the pea patch

(09:47):
in her garden up in Perry. Such a
romantic. I know. Right?
It is very romantic, I think. Yeah. And
yeah,
they had great friends
up at the U and had a great
experience dating.
Yeah. And then she knew sort of this
life of, this medical career that she was

(10:07):
signing up for that time, and that took
them all over as he was going through
his education. Right? Right.
Yeah. Back to
Boston and Minnesota and
let's see where else. They Washington.
Yeah. And and then it led to a
busy life as the wife of a doctor
and all that. So and did they start
having kids pretty soon after they got married?

(10:29):
Or A handful of years Yeah. Later. They
were in,
Minnesota
when my oldest sister was born. Wow. And
growing up, maybe just jumping to when you
came on the scene and your early memories
of your mom, you know, you talk about
the the bedtime singing and anything else as
far as what the the characteristics that that
as you look back with hindsight, like, that

(10:49):
that stand out about your your mother?
Well, my mother had the talent of making
events and holidays and time together really special.
And I think it was
really important to her and to my father
that when,
you know, to create those good memories
and she was a master at it and

(11:12):
creating wonderful traditions that made us all wanna
be there
and be together and
it just really strengthened those bonds of
family ties and we all just loved being
together and
still love just being together with my family.
Yeah. It's the best. And that's you find
that that's what you try and do as

(11:33):
a as a mother and grandmother as well?
Like, just Yeah. Just gather? Gathering, you know,
try to make something that's like a little
recurring special thing that's,
special to your time together. Yeah. We got
together once the family started getting bigger
and we couldn't go to everybody's

(11:54):
birthday, you know, to their house on their
birthday because we would have been
having birthday cake every other night.
So, they got the idea to have a
monthly birthday party. And so, then we would
gather
monthly and make it a really special time
and we'd have a cake with all the
names on it and sing to those people

(12:16):
and share gifts or whatever
and
just do that every month. And the July
4 was really special and she'd make the
Olympics.
Oh, really? Yeah. So, she'd have different events
and so she Like when you were when
the Olympics were happening or like a family
Olympics? No, a family Olympics.
Yeah. And her family place and,

(12:37):
you know, different events like, oh, here's the
hula hoop
contest and or like a relay race or
a three legged race or we'd start out
with a parade. We'd all decorate up our
bikes and the kids still do all decorate
up their bikes and then she'd put up,
you know, on John Philip Sousa and we'd
ride around

(12:58):
the little track there to have a little
parade
for the July 4.
And then she'd split us into teams and
we'd compete in the different
things and she would just have medals for
everybody and, you know, treats for participating or
prizes if you were the fastest one or
did the longest hula hoop or whatever. And

(13:20):
then like a Reese's peanut butter cup would
be like those little ones that are in
the gold wrapper.
That's the she had that hot glued onto
some yarn around your neck. So, that was
the gold medal or like a peppermint patty
with the silver
in it.
So. Julianne Yeah. Very creative and resourceful. Eliana

(13:41):
Right, right. And we'd usually do a craft
and that kind of thing and it was
just always so fun. And and those traditions
just have carried on and and makes it
special because
we can tell our kids and grandkids now
about, oh, how, you know, grandmother did this
and
she just loved it when we would do
this part or what. Yeah. So it sounds

(14:03):
like, I mean, she's just a mother that
would, I mean, like you said, create these,
like, these memories, but like an experience for
the family that we're not just gonna gather,
but they were gonna do something like Olympics
or like just the energy was, something that
kept her. I mean, she was engaged with
with that, right? Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Or
or like a family dinner, like a Christmas

(14:23):
at Christmas time, she would have, you know,
a few families over at a time and
she liked to create like themes.
So, everything would be gingerbread, like her little
name cards would be have little gingerbread
men on them and. Wow. Yeah. I know.
It's just, just fun themes like that. Yeah.
Yeah. She was just so creative and. Yeah.

(14:44):
Did she, you know, you would talk about
her vocal performance background, but is, you know,
you're an artist. Does any of that come
for your mother then? Or? Yeah. I think
she had some innate talent. We,
in fact, the
year before she passed, we had signed up
for a watercolor class together. Oh, wow. And
we were getting all into it and for
one reason or another, we couldn't do it

(15:05):
right then. But
yeah, she had some really natural talent and
her mother, we have some paintings that her
mother did and so. Oh, wow. So it's
generational thing. I mean, that's cool. That's great.
She was a great appreciator of art. She
always taught us to see the beauty in
everything, whether it was nature or

(15:26):
art or music. Both my parents loved
beautiful things,
music.
Mhmm. Musicals, we were raised on singing them
from the musicals and Oh, yeah. Sure.
Being in plays and things like that. That's
awesome. Any early memories, stories as far as
their, your parents' interactions,
you know, raising a family, especially a family

(15:49):
of 10 kids, right? I mean, that's,
and, and you were, so when you were
born, your oldest sibling was, I mean, what's
the age difference there? So there were only
ever nine of us at home at once
because,
my brother was born after my oldest sister
was married, but, but we had all nine
girls there at once.
And there's a lot of estrogen in the

(16:10):
house.
So maybe explain that dynamic of just not
only a lot of kids, but a lot
of girls, right? A lot of people in
the bathroom getting ready at once, I would
imagine. Right? What anything else that you describe
that and how she worked or, you know,
fit into all that
or shepherd all that? Yeah. Yeah.
I don't know. A lot of times I
just thought, how did you keep track of

(16:32):
that many people and, you know, in that
many different stages of life because they would
be from college kids
to young babies. And I remember when
they remember when the prophet came out with
that we should do family home evenings and
so, my parents
were always I mean, they
taught us to

(16:53):
listen to the prophet and that we, you
know, obey and try to follow what the
prophet says and
they follow they led by example and we,
you know, started having family home evening and
some of the college girls,
you know, wouldn't get there until the end
or whatever, but they would know we'd be
doing that and
then we'd be having family prayer, you know.

(17:15):
So at a certain time, if you weren't
there, you would know that you were being
prayed for, you know, or you'd know that
your family was
kneeling around the parents' bed. And
I have a lot of great memories of,
you know, nailing around my parents' bed
for prayer and Yeah.
Love that. Yeah, I bet. And I would

(17:36):
imagine, you know, the daughter of a surgeon,
I mean, is there's some odd hours at
times, right? Or coming and going or middle
of the night calls. I mean, is that
a good way to explain it? Or how
would you explain it? Joan Jones Yeah, I
remember that.
Yeah, he would he would have long days,
you know, at the hospital and and he
just loved, I know he missed that time,

(17:57):
like snuggling the babies and putting them down
to bed and, you know, reading with us.
If he was home in time, he, you
know, he would read to us or, you
know, give us all baths
and tuck us in and but if he
got home and the baby was
sleeping,
you know, he would tiptoe in and
do his little test where he'd lift the

(18:19):
baby's
wrist up just a little bit and just
drop it. And if the baby like held
it up or
startled, then he would tiptoe back out of
the room very quietly.
And if,
if the hand just dropped, then he knew
he could pick that baby up and snuggle
her.
Oh, that's good. And,

(18:40):
wouldn't risk waking the baby. Yeah. That's awesome.
And I've always wondered, it's like, I mean,
being the, having a father who's a doctor.
I mean, we spend, it seems like every
few months or at the hospital or an
Instacare or whatever, but was there a lot
of just, you know, bring me some tape
and, some pliers and I gotta, you know,
was there that happening in your home or
how did that work? Yeah. We have several

(19:02):
examples of when he would, he had his
doctor bag in the car, in the trunk
always. And,
so there were times he had to stitch
some people up.
I remember that. But his first
response was to put it to bed. Like,
he he could tell if it was something
serious, obviously,
but
he would tell us to put it to

(19:23):
bed
and
Walk it off in other words. See how
it is in the morning. Yeah. Yeah.
Anything else as far as with your mom,
the memories of just like the, the growing
up years?
Because I would imagine since you're, you know,
I'm the youngest of my family. So, you
know, my older siblings give me a bad
time that how I had it easy or,
you know, it's a different experience, isn't it?

(19:44):
Yeah. So, I mean, was it as you
were age aging through your teenage years, did
you, you know, you weren't at a, in
a home of, of all these kids, it
was now just a handful of kids, right?
So it was maybe a little more It
was mostly, yeah.
My, me and my brother,
usually when I got to that age when
I was in high school. And yeah, we'd
come in after a date.

(20:06):
They would make sure that we would check-in,
right? And
so, I would tiptoe around to my mom's
side of the bed and
let her know that I was home. Yeah.
Try to not wake daddy.
Because he probably had to operate in the
morning. Yeah. Yeah. People's lives on the line.
Right. Right. Yeah. So, sometimes I didn't think

(20:27):
it would matter, like if that she would
notice, but if I didn't check-in, she'd wake
up, you know, in an hour or so
and come down and
check that we got home. So that mom
radar is going on. Yeah. I bet you
experienced that later on in life, right? Yeah.
Yeah.

(20:55):
Ballet
or whatever we were enrolled in or driving
us to where we needed to be. And
I remember she did Cub Scouts. She's a
Cub Scout leader for my brother.
And so that was that was always fun
and then I would help her out, you
know, like if we were gonna do a
craft or something, then I would help her

(21:16):
with whatever activity they were doing and so
she was she was great that way. She
had this magic
of making it feel like at least to
me, I don't know if my sisters would
agree in their experience, but for me, I
looked up to my sisters so much and
my mom somehow made it magical to in

(21:36):
fall
time before we would go school shopping,
we'd shop in each other's closets.
Right? So, I would see what hand me
downs there were and I just thought it
was like the neatest thing if I got-

Oh, nice. Dolores Hahn (21:49):
to finally wear
what my cool sisters
were wearing, you know.
And so, somehow she made that a magical
thing and something that we looked forward to.
Oh, interesting. Because some kids, I mean, hand
me downs can be a negative thing, right?
But if you frame it right. I know.
It's like, I don't know how she, I
don't know how she framed it, but it,

(22:09):
it worked. And,
but I, it helps, you know, to have
awesome
older sisters.
You mentioned your mother being in scouting as
a as a den mother. I don't know
if they called it that back then, but
Oh, yeah. A den mother. Any specific callings
that she had in the church that come
to mind or Yeah. I don't remember a
lot of callings in the ward, but she

(22:30):
had
she sang with the Tabernacle Choir for twenty
years.
Twenty years? Yeah. And so,
yeah, my dad was a big supporter of
when she did that and he would get
us ready or my older sisters, he would
help my older sisters get us ready
for
church and, you know, because he was a

(22:51):
stake president
when I was
young.
So,
is that the time when she was in
the Tabernacle Choir? Okay. Yeah. And so
anyway, she sang in the Tabernacle Choir and
he just loved that. And we would sit
and watch the broadcast
and
look for mom.
Wow. So twenty years doing that. Is that

(23:13):
I'm sure the rules have changed or how
they handle that. What she just I was
everybody gets twenty years that she was done?
Or what what the master's done? Well, actually,
her it is twenty years or a certain
age. Okay. And both of those happened in
the same year. However, so that So she
had a time and Yeah. Wow. That's great.
Yeah. That's awesome. She had perfect timing on
that. Yeah. Awesome.

(23:34):
I mean, you've had your own experience singing
in choirs
and that, again, that's sort of a tie
to your to your mother. Right? Yes. I've
enjoyed singing
my whole life, and
I sing in community choir and then the
Utah Chamber artists.
Also sing soprano. So that's kind of a
fun
connection with her and- Yeah. And your sisters,

(23:55):
do they sing? I've had a couple of
sisters who have sung in the Tabernacle Choir.
Oh, really? And a few of us, have
sung in the Utah Chamber artists. So- Oh,
nice.
Yeah. Or other community choirs and word choir.
We love we love to sing and I
love singing
together. That's another thing my my parents
really did for us and made music really

(24:17):
special for us and singing together,
especially at Christmas time, it's one of
the favorite things Yeah. That I love to
do. And I have really sweet memories of
singing together even
with
my two sisters who have passed away.
Some of my favorite memories were, you know,
we had a singing session.

(24:39):
I guess it was,
like, maybe five months before my sister Emily
passed away where we actually recorded
Oh, wow. Singing together because
we, you know, she was in a fight
for her life and it was a time
when she could sing and
so
we just have loved singing. I love singing
with my family and if we can get

(25:01):
the brother to sing with us, that's like
the whole thing that yeah. We love it
when Russ can sing with us. He doesn't
identify as a singer maybe or
even though he may be carrying out or
He he can sing well. Yeah. He doesn't
sing often. I see. With us anyway. Yeah.
Maybe we should invite him more.
But his wife has a beautiful voice and

(25:22):
she sings with us. Oh, perfect. Well, that
that works out. That's awesome.
So I'm I'm curious just at home, like,
you know, you you hear stories of your
father who operated on president Kimball.
Do you remember, was that the thing that
he like come home and say, I, Hey,
guess what kids, I I'm operating on the
profit or, obviously that maybe there's certain, you
know, you can't share medical stuff, the HIPAA

(25:43):
rules. Right. But I mean, do you remember
that being a thing or?
I think I do remember
it in the news. I remember more
when we got to meet president and sister
Kimball.
When he was general president of the Sunday
school,
we got to go to a Sunday school
general
board Christmas party

(26:05):
and, we actually drove to the Kimball's home
and picked him up and got to drive
him downtown.
So my parents and I don't know why
I was in the car. I mean, probably
my brother and I were there. Yeah. But,
I mean, that was pretty cool. Were you
even a teenager yet at that point? Yes,
probably. Oh, okay. And so you were in
the car just going to mom and dad

(26:26):
and there's the prophet, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
That was pretty special. Interesting.
How about just going into,
well, let me ask this question first is
I'm just thinking of, you know, obviously we
wanna honor your mother
and obviously, I mean, she was incredible and,
and you have so many fond memories and,
you know, but in this Instagram age we
live in where

(26:47):
it's hard not to
compare yourself, you know, especially as a mother
to other mothers, they seem to have it
all figured out. They did it all right.
Yeah. I mean, how would your mom respond
or how how would you respond as far
as if there's women listening feeling like, you
know, I just,
I can't do it like the Nelsons, right?
Like, obviously, I'm sure she had weaknesses and
things like that, but how would you respond?

(27:07):
Join the club. It's hard to live up
to my mom. Right.
But
we've
not missed out on
trials and
hard things and everyone's journey looks different.
And
I think that one thing
that she did do well was just
to know that we were loved and the

(27:29):
grandchildren
were loved and
no matter what
they were doing or
dealing with or
doing or not doing,
you know, that they were loved and that
they
were loved by the family
and that they were children of God and
until we try to pass that on to

(27:49):
our kids and
man,
you know, my parenting certainly
didn't look the same as hers and
I just think she would say
she knew all of her imperfections
and that no one's perfect. And
I have,
you know, great memories of it probably because
I was like

(28:09):
the little sister and
had all the stars in the eyes for
everybody. You know, I just love my family
and
but- And she's really figured out mothering at
that point, right? Yes. With all the other
siblings.
Yes. Yeah. But yeah, even when, you know,
even when I was a mother and I
would be having
troubles or worries and I would ask her,

(28:31):
you know, what her thoughts were, you know,
she never was judgmental or
I just feel like she would
say, you know, everyone has their strengths and
everybody
has their weaknesses and we're all just learning
and- Yeah. .And that that's part of the
journey.
And of course, it's not gonna look the

(28:51):
same and
we were far from perfect.
I set up a lot of the fun,
happy memories, but, you know, there's hard things
too when, you know, having
she wasn't alive
when I got divorced, but she was alive
when my oldest sister got divorced
and, you know, hard times,

(29:14):
you know, come and not
everything goes easy. And, you know, they had
my sister
pass away from
cancer
when she was just quite young. She was
39, my sister. And
my mom had just come through cancer treatment.
She had non Hodgkin's lymphoma
and was undergoing chemo at the same time

(29:36):
as my sister. And I know that was
really hard on her that she survived.
Shortcomings.
Sure. And one of my favorite stories that
your father told when he was called as

(29:56):
an apostle was that,
when your sisters went into labor when they
found out he was called as apostle, right?
That was my sister, Emily. Oh, okay. Yeah.
Nice. And, but what's your story? What do
you remember finding out that your father had
been called as an apostle?
Kathryn Rubino Well, I happened to be with
them
down at the Tabernacle and my brother and
I

(30:17):
drove down there with him. My mom was
had gone down earlier for choir.
So we were there in the tabernacle. So
your mom was in the tabernacle choir. Okay.
Yeah. Interesting.
Yeah. We drove down there
with my dad and,
And you were a teenager at this point?
Or? Okay. Yeah. I think I was
18.

(30:38):
So we
were sitting, he was a regional representative at
the time. Which is similar to like an
area authority, right? Area 70.
Yeah. Serving down in the BYU
area.
And
so,
we sat there with him
under the balcony. There were, they were all
sitting together and then, and they just called

(30:59):
his name, like they just read his name
in order, you know? Like they don't say,
Hey, and we're going to announce
two new. Him and then Dallin Oaks. Right?
Right. The new apostles know it was just,
they read through the line and Russell and
Nelson and Dallin H Oaks. So at this
point you had no idea. You're just like,
I'll go into conference
with dad and mom, right?
They didn't give you a heads up or

(31:20):
anything,
No. Wow. My dad's very obedient.
I don't think you
had permission to tell his children.
They could tell my mom, but not the
kids. Wow. And that's when your sister went
into labor because she didn't know either. Right?
Right. None of us knew. Kinda shell shocked
there. Yep.
So then was your dad sitting with you
then? Yeah. And then he went up to

(31:40):
the the stand and there he was. Mhmm.
Rest of your life has changed the rest
of his life at least. Right? Right. Wow.
Wow. And then what do you remember about
your, your mother, like learning that or adjusting
to life now that she's
thrust into this really heavy administrative
life of a traveling husband as an apostle
and, and doing all the apostle things. What

(32:01):
do you remember about your how your mom
adjusted to that? Yeah. I think that, you
know, she still had the two of us
at home. I was a senior in high
school and and my brother was
six and a half years younger than me.
So
sometimes
she would travel with them quite a bit
actually
when they would go when you'd go internationally
or

(32:22):
over a longer period of time.
She would go and so I know
that was an adjustment for her to how
to start speaking and Hilton Oh, yeah. Brenda
You know, preparing talks and I mean, she
is a good
teacher in Relief Society or wherever she was,
but
you know, that was kind of new to

(32:43):
always have, you know, talks to give. Yeah.
Is that something that she sort of fretted
over or was nervous about or she just
sort of leaned in into? I think she
just kind of leaned in and did it.
She wasn't much of a complainer
or. Yeah. We wouldn't know externally.
I'm much worse at hiding that when I'm

(33:03):
freaking out about something.
My mom is pretty calm demeanor and
but, yeah, she I think that was new
for her, but she just
loved,
learning about
different cultures and
meeting people
And, you know, visiting with saints all over

(33:24):
the world. Mhmm. How would you describe your
relationship with her as a as a young
adult or now as an adult?
Oh, she was just great. I just always
loved talking to my mom and
I mean, I don't know how many calls
she had from her children every day,
how much time she had left for anything
else, but,

(33:45):
I loved whenever I could get a chance
to talk to her and, you know, pick
her brain on this or that or how
to,
you know, what was her opinion on,
you know, like how do you cook this
or how do
you fix that, mend this, you know, type
of thing. She's an excellent seamstress.
And so,
I always loved getting advice from her and

(34:08):
I often have to really draw it out
of her. She was not like
overbearing
with
my parents were very much hands off once
we were
married and,
you know, building our own life. They were
they just expressed great confidence in us being
able to, oh, I know you'll do. I

(34:29):
know you'll do it right or I know
you'll do it well
because, you know, we tried to get their
opinion on something
and it's
like they were not
like dropping it all the time, like micromanaging
our lives. Yeah, they got you to this
point, you can handle the rest. They're like,
you're intelligent and you're, you know, you can
do this and you've got this. And I

(34:51):
think a lot of just
their
confidence in us gave us a lot of
confidence.
Oh, well maybe I can do it if
they believe in me. Yeah, that's cool. Just
with her temperament in general,
what stories come to mind? Kyla Oh, she
was just so
calm and
even keeled. It was hard to get her
riled up

(35:11):
about
mad at anything, but and she was just
so patient
and she just understood we were
children and
little humans and not little adults that were
trying to vex her, you know?
She just was really
patient and
she was a really good seamstress when

(35:33):
my sister was getting married and my mom
was
creating,
she was sewing all of the bridesmaid dresses
and
for every wedding,
for all of our weddings. Jonathan Amarilio And
all the sisters were the bridesmaids, so she
had at least the eight dresses to sew,
right?
Yeah. And I remember for this one,

(35:55):
these dresses, they were so pretty. Like, okay,
youngest girl again.
Pretty dresses.
But they had several panels
that got sewn together. So, it was a
long piece
that went from the top to the bottom
of the dress and then it was sewn,
you know, with seams down.
And
I think she had probably

(36:16):
seven of the eight
bridesmaids dresses
done
and we had gone out somewhere and then
we came home
and we came downstairs and my little brother
had taken a pair of scissors. He was
just little, probably like five or something
And taken scissors and just cut up several

(36:37):
of the panels, like right in the middle
of the panel. Oh my goodness.
And
we all just froze
and my mom just said, oh, look, he
was trying to help.
Oh my god. He's been seeing me, you
know, cutting the fabric, and
I'll tell you what, that would not have
been my reaction for my kids. Right. Yeah.

(37:00):
So Wow.
Rest assured. Did she fix the dresses or
is it like a fashion statement?
Yeah. I'm sure she fixed it. I'm sure
she probably had to go get more fabric
or whatever to to repair it. But,
yeah, she just was
flappable.
That kind of stuff.
She just understood that, like, she could just

(37:22):
kind of relate how
children feel. Like she just was really good
that way.
Very patient. That's awesome.
So, I mean, your mother was alive around
twenty years
of the time your father was an apostle.
Any other story or thought
or about her life during that time? I
just think she enjoyed

(37:42):
their time
traveling and
they would bring us home
dolls from
the different places that they
visited
or like a doll, they brought home a
doll
like to display or to show us to
kind of show us the different
cultures and things that they were learning and

(38:05):
seeing and
then she started putting it together on a
Christmas tree every Christmas.
One of the like the tree
back in the family room would be one
with all of our little ornaments that we
had made and our pictures and all that
stuff.
And then in the front room, we started
having a tree

(38:25):
that had that she decorated with
all these dolls from around the world and
it made it really special. And
I remember when
maybe it was after she passed away,
we were trying to figure out how we
would distribute these dolls,
you know, how that was going to happen
and we had all the granddaughters

(38:46):
choose a doll. Oh, wow. From the, you
know, collection. And so,
that was a really special way to
kind of tie the generations
together that way too. I'm sure they'll keep
passing those down.
Yeah. Yeah. Wow, that's great. Awesome. You know,
obviously from, I remember your father telling the
story of your mother passing in general conference,
and it was very sudden.

(39:07):
What do you remember just, you know, I'm
just thinking of other families out there who
lose a loved one or a parent suddenly,
like, what do you remember as far as
what pulled you through that? How you process
that more than that? I mean, what comes
to mind is when you think of her
passing? Yeah, that was,
oh, that was a hard thing. That was
a really
hard time in my life. Because again, she

(39:29):
was such a big,
just the heart of our home
and that was, yeah, it was very sudden.
So, you you don't get that time for
closure and Yeah.
But
one thing that was always really comforting was
that
we
always told each other we love each other.
Like,
she knew that we loved her and we

(39:50):
knew that she loved us. And so
that wasn't
just an unspoken like, oh, I wonder how
she felt about me. So that was helpful.
But just
feeling
the literal
comforter
and the prayers of people
buoying us up and lifting us up through

(40:10):
that time that
was so hard. And
even though, you know,
the plan
of salvation
and that you're going to see each other
again,
that
is right to mourn.
You know,
God told us that,
that we live together and love so much

(40:31):
that we mourn and weep for those
who die and
it's that's really natural.
But I just remember feeling
so much love coming in from other people
and their appreciation
and their
hearing people's
stories
of their experience with my mom. And even

(40:52):
to this day, anybody who
knew her, you know, anybody who says, Oh,
I know your mother and we did this
and this and I just love, you know,
hearing
other people's
experience and that other people remember
her, you know? So, I think a lot
of that is
helpful when
you're going through those that lost time is

(41:12):
to connect with people's stories.
Yeah. You know? Yeah, I think that's a
powerful principle of what an honor it is
to, you know, sometimes it's hard when somebody
lose them, especially so suddenly, what do I
say? Do I, you know, what if I
say the wrong thing? But to just share
those moments of how they impacted
your life, you know, that as an individual
and that will mean a lot for, for

(41:34):
the family. Yeah. They hear that. Because you
learn how they interacted with other people and
how, you know, what they did or their
qualities that were special to other people. Yeah.
That's powerful.
Great. Well, let's I guess as far as
wrapping up the the book that you put
together to, you know, really is to honor
your mother's putting on the moon, and if

(41:54):
people wanna check it out or get it,
is there a certain place you would send
them? Or? Well, there it's available at
a lot of the Deseret books,
but also
on my website,
marjorielouder.com.
And, you know, if you want me to
sign in or whatever Yeah. Order it there
and I can sign up for you. Awesome.

(42:14):
Perfect. Now the the cool thing about the
book that definitely people should check out is
on the the very back or on the
last page. Right? There is a QR code
and maybe explain
how that works or what what it is
or or why you have a QR code
in the back. Yeah. Well, why have a
QR code?
That stemmed from earlier on when I was
going to do
the first time around when I was going

(42:36):
to try to illustrate this book
and try to make it come, I was
going to put a DVD, no, what did
they used to be called? CDs. Oh, CDs?
Back in the day. Yeah. Julian Way back
when the music CD
of the song,
right, I was gonna put it in a
sleeve in the back of the book. And

(42:56):
so then when I decided to do a
board book and by the time I actually
created it,
then QR codes were a thing and we
can scan a QR code and you can
hear my mom actually singing

the song. That's awesome. Julianne Holt Lunstad (43:11):
thanks
to my sister Brenda who one year for
Christmas
had my mom sing a bunch of her
like the repertoire
and also,
a bunch of primary songs
and recorded it for us and gave it
to us as a gift for Christmas. And
now that's just priceless. And so it's such

(43:32):
a treasure. And and that's another note too
to
if you have those special kind of traditions
and
things that you share together
to record them or
to to save them and what a meaningful
gift that was for us. And that that
just keeps giving
for the generations.
Yeah. I think we mentioned earlier, you you
illustrated and these are all painted, right? All

(43:54):
the illustrations that you did. So you didn't
only yeah. So, I mean, what was that
experience like?
It was fun. It was really fun
and took me a long time. Yeah. And
most of the students slow. Yeah. Well I'm
a slow painter,
but it was really fun, very joyful to
do it as well. That's awesome. A lot
of fun. Well, what a wonderful
way to honor your mother, Dansel White Nelson.

(44:17):
Anything else we miss? Story concept? We do
pretty good. Thanks for a chance to chat
about it.
Yeah. Do you wanna sing it? Or are
you not comfortable with that right now? Or
what do you think? Sure. You know, So
you'll, you'll sing the just probably sounding just
like your mother then. Right. And we'll end
with that. So I call it pudding on
the moon because you'll get it. It's rice
pudding. Okay.

(44:39):
Not like pudding on the Ritz.
You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay.
There was an old woman who lived in
the moon.
She baked a rice pudding but cut it
too soon.
Because it was not done, she gave it
a throw.
It came to our planet and we call
it snow.

(45:00):
When the little boy saw what his mother
had done,
he made such a frown that it clouded
the sun.
He lost his dear pudding,
he cried all in vain.
His tears fell in torrents and we call
it rain.
When the man in the moon who had
been off to town

(45:21):
saw his boy crying, caused him to frown.
He gave him some candy
and told him to dine.
Now everyone was happy and we call it
sunshine.

(45:43):
And that concludes this throwback episode of the
Leading Saints podcast.
The end. That's it for this Leading Saints
episode. I encourage you to check out some
of the most popular episodes of the podcast
that we list at the bottom of the
show notes. If you haven't listened to all
of those, do so now.

(46:08):
It came as a result of the position
of leadership which was imposed upon us
by the God of heaven who brought forth
a restoration
of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And when the declaration
was made concerning the own and only true
and living church upon the face of the
earth,

(46:28):
we were immediately put in a position of
loneliness.
The loneliness of leadership
from which we cannot shrink nor run away,
and to which we must face up with
boldness and courage
and ability.