February 28, 2025 • 25 mins
[Editor's Note: Please checkout the full article on MGMA.com]
In this special bonus episode of the MGMA Insights podcast, host Colleen Luckett speaks with healthcare leaders Kem Tolliver, FACMPE, CPC, CMOM, Shawntea "Taya" Gordon, MBA, FACMPE about the formation of MGMA's Black Healthcare Leaders Resource Group. They discuss the emotional experience of the group's first gathering at the MGMA Leaders Conference, the importance of representation, and the ongoing impact of this supportive community. They have managed the group along with co-founder Otis C. Fagan, FACMPE.
Key Takeaways:
- The Formation of the Black Healthcare Leaders Resource Group:
Taya shared how she and Otis helped launch the group, initially unsure of the response they would receive. "The response was just astounding," she said. "We ran out of chairs." The turnout exceeded expectations and demonstrated the demand for a space like this. - The Power of Representation:
Taya described the feeling of walking into the group's first meeting as being "like going home to a party." She noted that the sense of comfort and familiarity was a stark contrast to the typical experience at conferences. - Shared Experiences and Support:
Kem explained the significance of connecting with others who understand the challenges of being underrepresented in the healthcare industry. "We were able to just kind of let our hair down immediately," she said. The group provided a unique space for candid conversations and professional support. - MGMA's Role in Supporting the Group:
Both guests expressed appreciation for MGMA's recognition of the need for this resource group. Kem highlighted the group's mission to continue fostering connections and offering mentorship to healthcare leaders who might otherwise feel isolated.
Join the Conversation: Stay connected with the Black Healthcare Leaders Resource Group through MGMA and continue exploring ways to foster inclusivity and professional growth.
Read the Article: MGMA.com
Subscribe: Follow MGMA Insights on your favorite podcast platform.
Feedback: Have a story or question to share? Email us at podcasts@mgma.com.
This episode is brought to you by Zoll Data Systems, software and data solutions for healthcare financial professionals. Zoll AR Boost is the comprehensive automated RCM optimization suite that automatically finds, corrects and verifies patient and payer information to capture more revenue, reduce administrative burden, and improve the patient financial experience. The number one Black Book-rated insurance discovery tool can discover active, billable coverage for more than 40 percent of claims. Visit https://www.zolldata.com/healthcare-financial-data/arboost to learn about the complete Solution suite.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Daniel Williams (00:52):
Hi, everyone. I'm Daniel Williams, senior
editor at MGMA and host of theMGMA Podcast Network. Today, we
have a special treat for you.MGMA editor and writer, Colleen
Luckett, sits down with dynamichealth care leaders, Kim
Tolliver and Tayah Gordon, todiscuss the importance of
(01:13):
representation in health careleadership. The conversation
highlights the creation andimpact of MGMA's Black
Healthcare Leaders ResourceGroup.
It's a dedicated space formentorship, networking, and
advocacy. So tune in to learnhow these leaders are driving
change, fostering support, andshaping the future of medical
(01:35):
practice management. Let's go totheir conversation now.
Collen Luckett (01:39):
Alright. So number one, as I said, you've
been key to helping launch theBlack Healthcare Leaders
Resource Group at AMGMA. Can youtalk about what that experience
was like at the first leadersconference, and what it's been
like continuing the connectionsand conversations with that
group since then? Or have youhad a chance to do that?
Kem Tolliver (01:57):
Oh, yeah. Oh, gosh. So maybe, Tayah, you can
kinda talk about how you andOtis kinda got everything kicked
off. And
Taya Gordon (02:06):
Sure. Yeah. It was it was super interesting. We
were, first of all, veryhonored, to be included in this
and asked to lead that group andand sort of given free reign to
structure what we needed tocreate a space where people felt
seen and included and welcome,which was really, really
beautiful. And, I was sointrigued because when it first
(02:26):
started, we were just kind oflike, hey.
We're here. If you wanna meetwith us, we'd love to meet with
you. And the response was justastounding, especially at that
first meeting because Otis and Iwere kind of like, well, you
know, we'll we'll reach out tothese folks. We'll see if we can
connect and make some reallysolid connections with people.
And Kim was like, no.
I'm finding everybody in theentire MGMA conference, and I'm
(02:49):
dragging them here. And she did.I mean, she was running through
the building, like,
Kem Tolliver (02:53):
hey. You've gotta
Taya Gordon (02:54):
join us. This is amazing. It was such a powerful
and engaging first meeting.
Kem Tolliver (03:00):
Awesome.
Taya Gordon (03:00):
We ran out of chairs and and I remember
Collen Luckett (03:03):
that was in Nashville. Right? Yeah. That was
a freaking I I saw that. Thatwas a
Taya Gordon (03:08):
write down who wanted to be part of the group.
And, I would be lying if I saidit wasn't incredibly emotional,
I think, for all of us. And tosee the group continue to grow
the next year, it was just even,I think, more emotional, but in
just such a beautiful way.
Collen Luckett (03:23):
Can you expand on that? Like, yeah. What does
that mean for you? Beautiful and
Taya Gordon (03:28):
So yeah. Yeah. I think well, and I will I'll
leave some space for Kim too.But I think for me, you know,
typically when we walk into thehealth care conference, you
often feel seen in theconference as a practice
administrator or as whateveryour job title is Mhmm. Or by
the people that you've metbefore or by for whatever need
that you have.
(03:49):
Maybe you're there to seek outspecific types of vendors. It's
very different when you walkinto a room and everybody that
is in that room with you, theylook like you. They look like
your family members. Yeah. Itfelt like like going home to a
party and and hanging out withpeople, and it just it made the
space feel not just professionaland, like, it was a space for
(04:10):
growth, but it was suddenly muchmore comfortable.
And, that was it was almostoverwhelming, I feel. I don't
know about you, Kim.
Kem Tolliver (04:19):
Yeah. You know, I I definitely agree with you,
Tayah. It it almost felt like wewere in, like, a cousin's, like,
kick back, sit down on thecouch, and just, like, share
what, you know, what's beenhappening in your world. And
your world is very similar to myworld. So it it really
(04:40):
definitely, it it was a it wasdefinitely a beautiful, time
together.
And then when we also look atthe way that we interacted with
each other, it just felt veryorganic. There wasn't anything
that that felt too formal. Andwe were able to just kinda let
(05:01):
our hair down immediately. And,you know, being being in a a
space where, as Tayah said, youknow, everyone looks like you,
in health care, for for us, thatthat's that's not easy to find.
And I I think all of us kind ofpaused for a moment and said,
(05:22):
oh, okay.
We're all here. But then also, Ithink there was a lot of
reflection about, howappreciative we were for of MGMA
to identify the need forresources. Resources that you
can connect with at a deeperlevel. And that's, I think, what
(05:46):
we were able to accomplish isthat deeper level connection.
When when you know, Tayah and Ihave been participating in MGMA
and other conferences, butespecially MGMA conferences for
years, whether it'sparticipating as just an
attendee or as speakers, or asfacilitators and panelists or
(06:08):
helping with developingeducational ideas and topics and
content.
But to have that opportunity toto to to look at people who we
know are going through some ofthe similar experiences that
we've gone through in ourcareers.
Collen Luckett (06:27):
Right.
Kem Tolliver (06:28):
And give and be able to give back to them. So
one of the the the hugecomponents of why Tayah and I
volunteer so much time with MGMAis because we are so, engaged in
returning the favors, givingback to the health care
community specifically. And thisresource group allows us to do
(06:53):
that at a in a deeper in adeeper way.
Collen Luckett (06:56):
Great. Beautiful. Now I can see.
Beautiful and emotional. So andI was just thinking as you were
speaking, what what kind oftrend I mean, if you can
remember from that firstconference, what kind of so
you're there and you're withyour, your community and, you
you said you had similarexperiences.
(07:16):
What what were some of thosesimilar experiences that kinda
came up there? Or I
Taya Gordon (07:23):
mean There were so many of them.
Collen Luckett (07:25):
I think Yeah.
Taya Gordon (07:26):
Yeah. I think, more so than the specific scenarios,
I'll give you more somegeneralizations.
Collen Luckett (07:32):
Yeah.
Kem Tolliver (07:32):
I
Taya Gordon (07:33):
think there was there was something incredible
about how quickly people werecomfortable being vulnerable in
that setting. And so where Kevinand I have been teaching for a
long time, we've been mentorsfor a long time, and we'll say,
like, is there anything I canhelp you with? Are you
challenged with anythingpersonally or professionally?
And people often like, no. No.
No. Or I might seek out mycertification. And, you know, in
(07:54):
this space, when we got intothat room together and we're
like, is there anything that youguys need help with? And, I
mean, people were right upfront. Like, I've got a boss
that doesn't wanna see mesucceed, and I'm struggling at
work.
And I'm having an issue with acoworker. And, I mean, it all
came out. And it was it was soincredible, like, how quickly
they were comfortable beingvulnerable with us, and then how
many other people in the groupwere like, oh, I've been through
(08:16):
that. I can help you. Let metell you about this.
This is what I did. Or, it itwas just amazing to see. We kind
of had the opportunity to wedidn't really have to do a whole
lot that first session. We kindagot to stand back and observe
them take care of each other,which was really amazing.
Collen Luckett (08:32):
That's great.
Taya Gordon (08:33):
And
Kem Tolliver (08:34):
so so thinking about the the deeper you know, I
I I know that you asked thequestion and and Tayah and I
kinda laugh because, you know,these are the challenges that
that, you know, each individualresource group has collectively.
Vary. Right? And, you know, oneof those challenges that I would
(08:54):
say the the the black healthcare leaders resource group, not
not generally, but one of thosechallenges that that cropped up
to the surface was impostersyndrome.
Collen Luckett (09:07):
Yeah. Okay.
Kem Tolliver (09:09):
And working through that together, talking
about how we how we each handlethat, while maintaining, you
know, an ambition for continualgrowth. And, and also propelling
each other, you know, motivatingeach other through our shared
(09:32):
experiences, through ouraccomplishments, and through,
you know, some of the, you know,the the hits and and misses that
that we've experienced in our inour journeys.
Collen Luckett (09:43):
Right. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. That's say no
more.
I yeah. I'm sure you could go.And I don't wanna get into your
space either. Like, I don'twanna, you know, intrude. Yeah.
Okay. So I'll just move on tonumber two. So, I think we may
have covered some of it. So thisso you you, talked about being
mentors. So this is about that.
(10:05):
So as black leaders in healthcare, can you share what
experiences you've had infinding mentors to assist you?
So not as mentors, but yourmentors, to assist you in your
career journeys.
Taya Gordon (10:17):
Oh, man. I you know, I'm a huge fan of always
having mentors, continuousmentors. I believe that, having
them in sort of different areasof your life is beneficial. So I
pretty much at all times have atleast three of them because, you
know, I'm in this constant stateof growth and learning, and I I
wanna hear from people who are,you know, smarter, wiser, more
(10:39):
experienced than I am. And I'vebeen blessed with amazing
mentors.
I've I've had, like, Lori Bedke,who I know has been a keynote
for from GMA for several times,doctor Dazar Webby, who is works
at the state department in SouthDakota. He's been amazing just
for professional growth and and,you know, encouraging me to
continue schooling or tocontinue writing books and
(11:00):
things like that. And even Kimhas mentored me on a on a
personal and professional level.We mentor each other sometimes,
I think.
Kem Tolliver (11:06):
Yeah.
Taya Gordon (11:07):
And and reminding each other to, you know, grant
space and grace in our own livesto also be human beings while we
are professionals. And so Ithink there's there's probably a
ton of times where we're evenbeing mentored or mentoring
others and and not even checkingthat box off like it is
mentoring that's happening.Because we're we kinda stay in
(11:27):
that space where we're trying tolearn so much from others. But I
think for formal mentors,probably Laurie and doctor Reby
have been just tremendous to me.
Kem Tolliver (11:37):
Yeah. And and I'll say on on on my end, Deidra
Spears Johnson, she is a pioneerin, sexual health, and HIV
prevention. She is, she is aphenomenal powerhouse of a
woman. I definitely, rely on herexpertise to help kind of ground
(12:02):
me, in, in, in all of the, the,the many initiatives that I try
to undertake, she kind of sheshe kind of allows me to kind of
think outside the box, but thenshe also kind of helps pull, you
know, pull a strategy out of me.And and then similarly to Tay to
Tayah, you know, I think havinghaving relationships with with
(12:26):
multiple mentors, I think, isimportant because you get
different perspectives on thesame or on the same journey.
So, like, I I I am the journeyto my mentors. Right? So I'm
looking at it from from,Deidre's perspective, and then
I'm looking it from, doctor, DonCarroll, who is a, emergency
(12:50):
medicine physician here inMaryland. They both give me
different perspectives on thesame journey. And then I do have
again, as Tayah said, we kind ofwe kind of mentor each other.
You know, I I certainly rely onTayah, you know, to to, to to
help me see some blind spotsbecause I think we all have
(13:12):
them, and and it's really greatto have that additional support.
I also have a, Larry Kibler whois, I he he's a neighbor, but he
is a, you know, an entrepreneur.And he's done a lot of work, not
only nationally, butinternationally. And that has
(13:33):
always been an area of interestfor me. So, with with his, with
his mentorship, he has kind ofhelped me grow into that
international space.
So I think having a few mentorsgiving you different
perspectives is is key. And it'sbeen really helpful to Tayah and
my success.
Collen Luckett (13:54):
Right. That's a nice neighbor to have.
Taya Gordon (13:58):
I'm I'm
Collen Luckett (13:58):
just jealous in general. I do not have any kind
of mentor. My, like, my careerhas been really fractured. So
it's like
Taya Gordon (14:05):
Oh, we've gotta find you some mentors.
Collen Luckett (14:07):
Oh. Yes. We do. Yeah.
Taya Gordon (14:09):
That's on our to do list now.
Collen Luckett (14:11):
Awesome. No. No. No. No.
No. You do not need anythingelse. But but thank you. I
appreciate it. Alright.
So, number three was beyond sobeyond people you've had
personal connections within yourcareers, are there any other
individuals you've admired orbeen inspired by when you
started in health care? So I'mkind of like I'm kind of dancing
(14:32):
around, like, this is BlackHistory Month. You know, was
there any, and I wanted to askyou that specifically after the
interview. It's like, were werethere any kind of, like, heroes?
And maybe we shouldn't haveheroes.
But, you know, yeah, people whoinspired you in health care,
that kind of thing.
Kem Tolliver (14:47):
Oh, yeah. I think we both do.
Taya Gordon (14:49):
Go ahead, Kim.
Kem Tolliver (14:50):
Yeah. So my health care hero is doctor Hector
Collison. He was a cardiologist,and, he unfortunately passed
away in a plane crash with hisyoung son. Oh, okay. But he was
an amazing human being.
(15:10):
He along with my dad and and myparents, because I would say,
like, my immediate family,eighty percent of us are in
health care.
Collen Luckett (15:20):
Oh, wow.
Taya Gordon (15:22):
So That is true. Like, you were
Kem Tolliver (15:24):
Both of my
Taya Gordon (15:25):
And and half of you have worked at the same
hospital. Exactly. Nice.
Kem Tolliver (15:32):
But but that that hero, Hector Collison, amazing
physician, he really pushed me,to to further my career, further
my education, obtaincertifications. He gave me, I
was I started off as hisreceptionist, and, he he saw an
(15:55):
interest and wanted to mentorme. And and, you know, he he
gave me ideas of of pathways toimprove, you know, my
opportunities to to to to growin health care that I would not
have ever thought of. So Idefinitely give him a lot of
credit for, me beingcomfortable, walking into to to
(16:18):
opportunities and seeing myselfas being completely capable of
doing anything that I set mymind to in health care. Great.
Taya Gordon (16:31):
I love it. I think there's so many, it's hard
because there's so many people.I think that personally and and
professionally have helped shapeus. And Kim and I even I mean,
even when we were we were tryingto write, like, thank yous and
acknowledgments for our book,and we kept being told, like,
there's a limit to how manypeople you can list, and we're
(16:53):
like, but we take inspirationfrom so many people. I will say
that one one journey that I havealways found really inspiring
was Regina Benjamin.
And, she was a physician. Shewas in the military for quite
some time, but she lived in, Ibelieve it was Louisiana.
Basically, she recognized aneed, for rural health care. And
(17:16):
so she was like, let's get to itand just, you know, kind of
boots to the ground was like,we're gonna put up some some
rural health clinics, and we'regonna take care of these people
because there's a job here thatneeds doing. And she did it, and
she did it well.
And even recognizing that, youknow, maybe that was gonna be
really difficult. Maybe it wasgonna be, really costly. She
might run into some opposition,and she just, I mean, absolutely
(17:39):
knocked it out of the park andand did everything she needed to
do to get it taken care of. Ibelieve she won, the Nelson
Mandela award too. You wouldhave to fact check that because,
but I just find that journey soinspiring.
Just, you know, here's a womanwho said there's a job that
needs doing, and I'm just gonnatackle it. And and doing such
tremendous good from thecommunity because of it is
Collen Luckett (18:01):
is just
Taya Gordon (18:02):
kind of phenomenal. Yeah. Amazing.
Kem Tolliver (18:04):
You know what I think is also interesting about
those health care heroes is howthey shaped our perception of
what our contributions will beto health care. Yes. Right? So a
long time ago, I thought aboutgoing to medical school based on
the relationship that I had withdoctor Collison and the
(18:25):
relationship that he had withhis patients. His patients
adored him.
They would sit for hours andwait for this man while he was
in emergency surgery Oh. Youknow, saving a patient's life. I
mean, just he was a pillar ofthe community. So I think, you
know, that inspiration allowedTayah and I to to see ourselves
(18:45):
as as, do gooders in health careand, be able to to give our own
individual contributions back tohealth care.
Taya Gordon (18:55):
I think it also makes it harder not to jump the
hurdle. Right? Because anytimewe've been faced with a
challenge or a barrier orsomething, we're like, oh, man.
Can we do this? And then yousort of look at all these other
inspiring people, and you'relike, okay.
We kinda gotta do this.
Collen Luckett (19:09):
We don't Yeah.
Taya Gordon (19:10):
It so it makes it harder not to jump that hurdle.
And I think because of that, itpropels all of us forward.
Collen Luckett (19:16):
Right. Well, I'm so sorry to hear about doctor
Collison. You said that's Yeah.Sad. What a loss.
Kem Tolliver (19:22):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. The the entire, DC, Maryland,
and Virginia community mournedhis loss. Like, it was a it was
very newsworthy. He was a he,you know, there he had office
hours back in the day when, youknow, an office closed when it
closed.
He would just keep the officeopen. He just was a a again,
(19:46):
just a selfless human being. Oh.Yeah.
Taya Gordon (19:49):
I often wonder is that.
Collen Luckett (19:51):
Yeah. Why do we lose people like that when
Taya Gordon (19:55):
I know. Yes.
Kem Tolliver (19:57):
I know.
Taya Gordon (19:57):
I know.
Collen Luckett (19:58):
Ugh. It's not fair. Ugh. Thank you for sharing
that. Thanks.
Yeah. Alright. And let's see.Number four. Okay.
So, many practice and healthsystem leaders talk about the
difficulty of generationaldifferences in the workforce. So
we're talking about Gen z versusBoomer, so all that. At the same
time, there are lots ofopportunities to learn for, of
(20:19):
course, from the challenges andsuccesses of past generations.
Have has any of that been atopic of discussion among your
resource group, members or withyou all personally?
Taya Gordon (20:32):
I think that's such a great question because so many
of us and I'm not gonna speakfor everybody in the group. I
can speak for myself and some ofthe others I've spoken with, but
so many of us were raised torespect your elders, period.
Collen Luckett (20:43):
Uh-huh.
Taya Gordon (20:44):
They are a powerhouse of knowledge, and you
respect that. You absorb as muchas you possibly can before
they're not here to kind of pourthat into you. And that's always
been something that's at theheart of everything I do. I know
chem feels very much the sameway. But then when you look at
sort of the younger generation,those are the ones that are
(21:04):
teaching us work life balance.
We did not know that that was athing and that it was important,
and, we were all workingourselves in and I I don't wanna
say all of us, but so many of usare working ourselves into early
graves with stress and highblood pressure, whatever, simply
because we're not givingourselves any space and grace to
take care of ourselves. And so Ithink there's necessity to learn
(21:28):
from our elders. I was very muchraised in that family, very
matriarchal family. Mygrandmother was the oldest of
11, and I know all my greataunts and uncles and all my
cousins, and we're all still,like, very close. Even though I
don't live near any of themanymore, if I call them, they
pick up always.
You know, we're we're all stillvery close. But I learned so
much from both sides of thatfence. I think that there's
(21:52):
there's something veryinformative about being in the
middle. But I was on a call, andit was just yesterday, with a
colleague of mine, and she wasmentioning how everybody that
was in the generation older thanher and her family was now gone,
and she realized that shift. Andthat now she is the older
generation, and she is theelder, and and how she was
(22:14):
viewing that.
And so I'm actually sort ofintrigued to see what happens
when I'm not in the middle ofthis shift. Right? Like,
Kem Tolliver (22:21):
I've I've gotten past I
Taya Gordon (22:22):
don't wanna hear what other people have to tell
me. Right? I'm, like, listeningto everything the elders have to
say. I'm listening to everythingthe younger generation has to
say. So I'm I'm nervous aboutwhat happens when I don't have
that advice on the other side.
Collen Luckett (22:35):
You become that person.
Kem Tolliver (22:37):
Yeah. We are the new we are the new adults.
Collen Luckett (22:40):
Yes. That's so weird to us. I hear you.
Kem Tolliver (22:43):
That happens. Yeah. You know, so I'll I'll
speak, about this topic in mycompany. They're so so the way
that that we're kinda structuredis we rely on, multigenerational
expertise. So we have arelationship with Johns Hopkins,
(23:05):
School of Public Health for,student interns.
So they come in and they do arotation with us, and we get to
learn so many really coolthings. I can't tell you how
much I've learned from Nick andJack and Yeah. You know, all of
our all of our student interns.Not only, technology because as
(23:29):
Tayah knows, I am, you know, Iam tech tech You love
Taya Gordon (23:36):
technology, and it hates you.
Kem Tolliver (23:37):
Hates you.
Collen Luckett (23:38):
I don't know why.
Kem Tolliver (23:43):
So so we have that, that opportunity to learn
from to learn from, you the theyounger generation. And so for
for my generation, Gen X, we wealso, I guess, you know, we're
kind of in the middle. Right?Right now, millennials and Gen
Xs. And, you know, the the teammembers that that that are in
(24:07):
that space, we're able to soakup and absorb information from
that, you know, the the theyounger generation, but we're
also able to guide them.
And I love seeing how my Gen Xteam members and millennial team
members are interacting withthat younger generation. We
recently had one of our studentschange her major to, become a
(24:32):
master in health careadministration based on the work
that she's been doing with someof our team members. So, I I
mean, I think that's just it'sso powerful. And then having
boomers so for me, again, asTayah said, you know, we're
raised with certain level of ofrespect that we have. I am
soaking up all the knowledgethat I possibly can from Steve
(24:54):
and from Denise and from Monicabecause, oh my gosh, they bring
so much, they bring so muchwisdom to the team.
So so we're all able tocollectively learn from each
other, and, I couldn't have itany other way. We have to have
that multigenerational, learningopportunity, and being exposed
(25:18):
to new ideas, old ideas, andand, you know, those those ways
of of thinking that that aregonna collaborate and pull,
align all of that together.
Hi, everyone. I'm Daniel Williams, senior
editor at MGMA and host of theMGMA Podcast Network. Today, we
have a special treat for you.MGMA editor and writer, Colleen
Luckett, sits down with dynamichealth care leaders, Kim
Tolliver and Tayah Gordon, todiscuss the importance of
(01:13):
representation in health careleadership. The conversation
highlights the creation andimpact of MGMA's Black
Healthcare Leaders ResourceGroup.
It's a dedicated space formentorship, networking, and
advocacy. So tune in to learnhow these leaders are driving
change, fostering support, andshaping the future of medical
(01:35):
practice management. Let's go totheir conversation now.
Collen Luckett (01:39):
Alright. So number one, as I said, you've
been key to helping launch theBlack Healthcare Leaders
Resource Group at AMGMA. Can youtalk about what that experience
was like at the first leadersconference, and what it's been
like continuing the connectionsand conversations with that
group since then? Or have youhad a chance to do that?
Kem Tolliver (01:57):
Oh, yeah. Oh, gosh. So maybe, Tayah, you can
kinda talk about how you andOtis kinda got everything kicked
off. And
Taya Gordon (02:06):
Sure. Yeah. It was it was super interesting. We
were, first of all, veryhonored, to be included in this
and asked to lead that group andand sort of given free reign to
structure what we needed tocreate a space where people felt
seen and included and welcome,which was really, really
beautiful. And, I was sointrigued because when it first
(02:26):
started, we were just kind oflike, hey.
We're here. If you wanna meetwith us, we'd love to meet with
you. And the response was justastounding, especially at that
first meeting because Otis and Iwere kind of like, well, you
know, we'll we'll reach out tothese folks. We'll see if we can
connect and make some reallysolid connections with people.
And Kim was like, no.
I'm finding everybody in theentire MGMA conference, and I'm
(02:49):
dragging them here. And she did.I mean, she was running through
the building, like,
Kem Tolliver (02:53):
hey. You've gotta
Taya Gordon (02:54):
join us. This is amazing. It was such a powerful
and engaging first meeting.
Kem Tolliver (03:00):
Awesome.
Taya Gordon (03:00):
We ran out of chairs and and I remember
Collen Luckett (03:03):
that was in Nashville. Right? Yeah. That was
a freaking I I saw that. Thatwas a
Taya Gordon (03:08):
write down who wanted to be part of the group.
And, I would be lying if I saidit wasn't incredibly emotional,
I think, for all of us. And tosee the group continue to grow
the next year, it was just even,I think, more emotional, but in
just such a beautiful way.
Collen Luckett (03:23):
Can you expand on that? Like, yeah. What does
that mean for you? Beautiful and
Taya Gordon (03:28):
So yeah. Yeah. I think well, and I will I'll
leave some space for Kim too.But I think for me, you know,
typically when we walk into thehealth care conference, you
often feel seen in theconference as a practice
administrator or as whateveryour job title is Mhmm. Or by
the people that you've metbefore or by for whatever need
that you have.
(03:49):
Maybe you're there to seek outspecific types of vendors. It's
very different when you walkinto a room and everybody that
is in that room with you, theylook like you. They look like
your family members. Yeah. Itfelt like like going home to a
party and and hanging out withpeople, and it just it made the
space feel not just professionaland, like, it was a space for
(04:10):
growth, but it was suddenly muchmore comfortable.
And, that was it was almostoverwhelming, I feel. I don't
know about you, Kim.
Kem Tolliver (04:19):
Yeah. You know, I I definitely agree with you,
Tayah. It it almost felt like wewere in, like, a cousin's, like,
kick back, sit down on thecouch, and just, like, share
what, you know, what's beenhappening in your world. And
your world is very similar to myworld. So it it really
(04:40):
definitely, it it was a it wasdefinitely a beautiful, time
together.
And then when we also look atthe way that we interacted with
each other, it just felt veryorganic. There wasn't anything
that that felt too formal. Andwe were able to just kinda let
(05:01):
our hair down immediately. And,you know, being being in a a
space where, as Tayah said, youknow, everyone looks like you,
in health care, for for us, thatthat's that's not easy to find.
And I I think all of us kind ofpaused for a moment and said,
(05:22):
oh, okay.
We're all here. But then also, Ithink there was a lot of
reflection about, howappreciative we were for of MGMA
to identify the need forresources. Resources that you
can connect with at a deeperlevel. And that's, I think, what
(05:46):
we were able to accomplish isthat deeper level connection.
When when you know, Tayah and Ihave been participating in MGMA
and other conferences, butespecially MGMA conferences for
years, whether it'sparticipating as just an
attendee or as speakers, or asfacilitators and panelists or
(06:08):
helping with developingeducational ideas and topics and
content.
But to have that opportunity toto to to look at people who we
know are going through some ofthe similar experiences that
we've gone through in ourcareers.
Collen Luckett (06:27):
Right.
Kem Tolliver (06:28):
And give and be able to give back to them. So
one of the the the hugecomponents of why Tayah and I
volunteer so much time with MGMAis because we are so, engaged in
returning the favors, givingback to the health care
community specifically. And thisresource group allows us to do
(06:53):
that at a in a deeper in adeeper way.
Collen Luckett (06:56):
Great. Beautiful. Now I can see.
Beautiful and emotional. So andI was just thinking as you were
speaking, what what kind oftrend I mean, if you can
remember from that firstconference, what kind of so
you're there and you're withyour, your community and, you
you said you had similarexperiences.
(07:16):
What what were some of thosesimilar experiences that kinda
came up there? Or I
Taya Gordon (07:23):
mean There were so many of them.
Collen Luckett (07:25):
I think Yeah.
Taya Gordon (07:26):
Yeah. I think, more so than the specific scenarios,
I'll give you more somegeneralizations.
Collen Luckett (07:32):
Yeah.
Kem Tolliver (07:32):
I
Taya Gordon (07:33):
think there was there was something incredible
about how quickly people werecomfortable being vulnerable in
that setting. And so where Kevinand I have been teaching for a
long time, we've been mentorsfor a long time, and we'll say,
like, is there anything I canhelp you with? Are you
challenged with anythingpersonally or professionally?
And people often like, no. No.
No. Or I might seek out mycertification. And, you know, in
(07:54):
this space, when we got intothat room together and we're
like, is there anything that youguys need help with? And, I
mean, people were right upfront. Like, I've got a boss
that doesn't wanna see mesucceed, and I'm struggling at
work.
And I'm having an issue with acoworker. And, I mean, it all
came out. And it was it was soincredible, like, how quickly
they were comfortable beingvulnerable with us, and then how
many other people in the groupwere like, oh, I've been through
(08:16):
that. I can help you. Let metell you about this.
This is what I did. Or, it itwas just amazing to see. We kind
of had the opportunity to wedidn't really have to do a whole
lot that first session. We kindagot to stand back and observe
them take care of each other,which was really amazing.
Collen Luckett (08:32):
That's great.
Taya Gordon (08:33):
And
Kem Tolliver (08:34):
so so thinking about the the deeper you know, I
I I know that you asked thequestion and and Tayah and I
kinda laugh because, you know,these are the challenges that
that, you know, each individualresource group has collectively.
Vary. Right? And, you know, oneof those challenges that I would
(08:54):
say the the the black healthcare leaders resource group, not
not generally, but one of thosechallenges that that cropped up
to the surface was impostersyndrome.
Collen Luckett (09:07):
Yeah. Okay.
Kem Tolliver (09:09):
And working through that together, talking
about how we how we each handlethat, while maintaining, you
know, an ambition for continualgrowth. And, and also propelling
each other, you know, motivatingeach other through our shared
(09:32):
experiences, through ouraccomplishments, and through,
you know, some of the, you know,the the hits and and misses that
that we've experienced in our inour journeys.
Collen Luckett (09:43):
Right. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. That's say no
more.
I yeah. I'm sure you could go.And I don't wanna get into your
space either. Like, I don'twanna, you know, intrude. Yeah.
Okay. So I'll just move on tonumber two. So, I think we may
have covered some of it. So thisso you you, talked about being
mentors. So this is about that.
(10:05):
So as black leaders in healthcare, can you share what
experiences you've had infinding mentors to assist you?
So not as mentors, but yourmentors, to assist you in your
career journeys.
Taya Gordon (10:17):
Oh, man. I you know, I'm a huge fan of always
having mentors, continuousmentors. I believe that, having
them in sort of different areasof your life is beneficial. So I
pretty much at all times have atleast three of them because, you
know, I'm in this constant stateof growth and learning, and I I
wanna hear from people who are,you know, smarter, wiser, more
(10:39):
experienced than I am. And I'vebeen blessed with amazing
mentors.
I've I've had, like, Lori Bedke,who I know has been a keynote
for from GMA for several times,doctor Dazar Webby, who is works
at the state department in SouthDakota. He's been amazing just
for professional growth and and,you know, encouraging me to
continue schooling or tocontinue writing books and
(11:00):
things like that. And even Kimhas mentored me on a on a
personal and professional level.We mentor each other sometimes,
I think.
Kem Tolliver (11:06):
Yeah.
Taya Gordon (11:07):
And and reminding each other to, you know, grant
space and grace in our own livesto also be human beings while we
are professionals. And so Ithink there's there's probably a
ton of times where we're evenbeing mentored or mentoring
others and and not even checkingthat box off like it is
mentoring that's happening.Because we're we kinda stay in
(11:27):
that space where we're trying tolearn so much from others. But I
think for formal mentors,probably Laurie and doctor Reby
have been just tremendous to me.
Kem Tolliver (11:37):
Yeah. And and I'll say on on on my end, Deidra
Spears Johnson, she is a pioneerin, sexual health, and HIV
prevention. She is, she is aphenomenal powerhouse of a
woman. I definitely, rely on herexpertise to help kind of ground
(12:02):
me, in, in, in all of the, the,the many initiatives that I try
to undertake, she kind of sheshe kind of allows me to kind of
think outside the box, but thenshe also kind of helps pull, you
know, pull a strategy out of me.And and then similarly to Tay to
Tayah, you know, I think havinghaving relationships with with
(12:26):
multiple mentors, I think, isimportant because you get
different perspectives on thesame or on the same journey.
So, like, I I I am the journeyto my mentors. Right? So I'm
looking at it from from,Deidre's perspective, and then
I'm looking it from, doctor, DonCarroll, who is a, emergency
(12:50):
medicine physician here inMaryland. They both give me
different perspectives on thesame journey. And then I do have
again, as Tayah said, we kind ofwe kind of mentor each other.
You know, I I certainly rely onTayah, you know, to to, to to
help me see some blind spotsbecause I think we all have
(13:12):
them, and and it's really greatto have that additional support.
I also have a, Larry Kibler whois, I he he's a neighbor, but he
is a, you know, an entrepreneur.And he's done a lot of work, not
only nationally, butinternationally. And that has
(13:33):
always been an area of interestfor me. So, with with his, with
his mentorship, he has kind ofhelped me grow into that
international space.
So I think having a few mentorsgiving you different
perspectives is is key. And it'sbeen really helpful to Tayah and
my success.
Collen Luckett (13:54):
Right. That's a nice neighbor to have.
Taya Gordon (13:58):
I'm I'm
Collen Luckett (13:58):
just jealous in general. I do not have any kind
of mentor. My, like, my careerhas been really fractured. So
it's like
Taya Gordon (14:05):
Oh, we've gotta find you some mentors.
Collen Luckett (14:07):
Oh. Yes. We do. Yeah.
Taya Gordon (14:09):
That's on our to do list now.
Collen Luckett (14:11):
Awesome. No. No. No. No.
No. You do not need anythingelse. But but thank you. I
appreciate it. Alright.
So, number three was beyond sobeyond people you've had
personal connections within yourcareers, are there any other
individuals you've admired orbeen inspired by when you
started in health care? So I'mkind of like I'm kind of dancing
(14:32):
around, like, this is BlackHistory Month. You know, was
there any, and I wanted to askyou that specifically after the
interview. It's like, were werethere any kind of, like, heroes?
And maybe we shouldn't haveheroes.
But, you know, yeah, people whoinspired you in health care,
that kind of thing.
Kem Tolliver (14:47):
Oh, yeah. I think we both do.
Taya Gordon (14:49):
Go ahead, Kim.
Kem Tolliver (14:50):
Yeah. So my health care hero is doctor Hector
Collison. He was a cardiologist,and, he unfortunately passed
away in a plane crash with hisyoung son. Oh, okay. But he was
an amazing human being.
(15:10):
He along with my dad and and myparents, because I would say,
like, my immediate family,eighty percent of us are in
health care.
Collen Luckett (15:20):
Oh, wow.
Taya Gordon (15:22):
So That is true. Like, you were
Kem Tolliver (15:24):
Both of my
Taya Gordon (15:25):
And and half of you have worked at the same
hospital. Exactly. Nice.
Kem Tolliver (15:32):
But but that that hero, Hector Collison, amazing
physician, he really pushed me,to to further my career, further
my education, obtaincertifications. He gave me, I
was I started off as hisreceptionist, and, he he saw an
(15:55):
interest and wanted to mentorme. And and, you know, he he
gave me ideas of of pathways toimprove, you know, my
opportunities to to to to growin health care that I would not
have ever thought of. So Idefinitely give him a lot of
credit for, me beingcomfortable, walking into to to
(16:18):
opportunities and seeing myselfas being completely capable of
doing anything that I set mymind to in health care. Great.
Taya Gordon (16:31):
I love it. I think there's so many, it's hard
because there's so many people.I think that personally and and
professionally have helped shapeus. And Kim and I even I mean,
even when we were we were tryingto write, like, thank yous and
acknowledgments for our book,and we kept being told, like,
there's a limit to how manypeople you can list, and we're
(16:53):
like, but we take inspirationfrom so many people. I will say
that one one journey that I havealways found really inspiring
was Regina Benjamin.
And, she was a physician. Shewas in the military for quite
some time, but she lived in, Ibelieve it was Louisiana.
Basically, she recognized aneed, for rural health care. And
(17:16):
so she was like, let's get to itand just, you know, kind of
boots to the ground was like,we're gonna put up some some
rural health clinics, and we'regonna take care of these people
because there's a job here thatneeds doing. And she did it, and
she did it well.
And even recognizing that, youknow, maybe that was gonna be
really difficult. Maybe it wasgonna be, really costly. She
might run into some opposition,and she just, I mean, absolutely
(17:39):
knocked it out of the park andand did everything she needed to
do to get it taken care of. Ibelieve she won, the Nelson
Mandela award too. You wouldhave to fact check that because,
but I just find that journey soinspiring.
Just, you know, here's a womanwho said there's a job that
needs doing, and I'm just gonnatackle it. And and doing such
tremendous good from thecommunity because of it is
Collen Luckett (18:01):
is just
Taya Gordon (18:02):
kind of phenomenal. Yeah. Amazing.
Kem Tolliver (18:04):
You know what I think is also interesting about
those health care heroes is howthey shaped our perception of
what our contributions will beto health care. Yes. Right? So a
long time ago, I thought aboutgoing to medical school based on
the relationship that I had withdoctor Collison and the
(18:25):
relationship that he had withhis patients. His patients
adored him.
They would sit for hours andwait for this man while he was
in emergency surgery Oh. Youknow, saving a patient's life. I
mean, just he was a pillar ofthe community. So I think, you
know, that inspiration allowedTayah and I to to see ourselves
(18:45):
as as, do gooders in health careand, be able to to give our own
individual contributions back tohealth care.
Taya Gordon (18:55):
I think it also makes it harder not to jump the
hurdle. Right? Because anytimewe've been faced with a
challenge or a barrier orsomething, we're like, oh, man.
Can we do this? And then yousort of look at all these other
inspiring people, and you'relike, okay.
We kinda gotta do this.
Collen Luckett (19:09):
We don't Yeah.
Taya Gordon (19:10):
It so it makes it harder not to jump that hurdle.
And I think because of that, itpropels all of us forward.
Collen Luckett (19:16):
Right. Well, I'm so sorry to hear about doctor
Collison. You said that's Yeah.Sad. What a loss.
Kem Tolliver (19:22):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. The the entire, DC, Maryland,
and Virginia community mournedhis loss. Like, it was a it was
very newsworthy. He was a he,you know, there he had office
hours back in the day when, youknow, an office closed when it
closed.
He would just keep the officeopen. He just was a a again,
(19:46):
just a selfless human being. Oh.Yeah.
Taya Gordon (19:49):
I often wonder is that.
Collen Luckett (19:51):
Yeah. Why do we lose people like that when
Taya Gordon (19:55):
I know. Yes.
Kem Tolliver (19:57):
I know.
Taya Gordon (19:57):
I know.
Collen Luckett (19:58):
Ugh. It's not fair. Ugh. Thank you for sharing
that. Thanks.
Yeah. Alright. And let's see.Number four. Okay.
So, many practice and healthsystem leaders talk about the
difficulty of generationaldifferences in the workforce. So
we're talking about Gen z versusBoomer, so all that. At the same
time, there are lots ofopportunities to learn for, of
(20:19):
course, from the challenges andsuccesses of past generations.
Have has any of that been atopic of discussion among your
resource group, members or withyou all personally?
Taya Gordon (20:32):
I think that's such a great question because so many
of us and I'm not gonna speakfor everybody in the group. I
can speak for myself and some ofthe others I've spoken with, but
so many of us were raised torespect your elders, period.
Collen Luckett (20:43):
Uh-huh.
Taya Gordon (20:44):
They are a powerhouse of knowledge, and you
respect that. You absorb as muchas you possibly can before
they're not here to kind of pourthat into you. And that's always
been something that's at theheart of everything I do. I know
chem feels very much the sameway. But then when you look at
sort of the younger generation,those are the ones that are
(21:04):
teaching us work life balance.
We did not know that that was athing and that it was important,
and, we were all workingourselves in and I I don't wanna
say all of us, but so many of usare working ourselves into early
graves with stress and highblood pressure, whatever, simply
because we're not givingourselves any space and grace to
take care of ourselves. And so Ithink there's necessity to learn
(21:28):
from our elders. I was very muchraised in that family, very
matriarchal family. Mygrandmother was the oldest of
11, and I know all my greataunts and uncles and all my
cousins, and we're all still,like, very close. Even though I
don't live near any of themanymore, if I call them, they
pick up always.
You know, we're we're all stillvery close. But I learned so
much from both sides of thatfence. I think that there's
(21:52):
there's something veryinformative about being in the
middle. But I was on a call, andit was just yesterday, with a
colleague of mine, and she wasmentioning how everybody that
was in the generation older thanher and her family was now gone,
and she realized that shift. Andthat now she is the older
generation, and she is theelder, and and how she was
(22:14):
viewing that.
And so I'm actually sort ofintrigued to see what happens
when I'm not in the middle ofthis shift. Right? Like,
Kem Tolliver (22:21):
I've I've gotten past I
Taya Gordon (22:22):
don't wanna hear what other people have to tell
me. Right? I'm, like, listeningto everything the elders have to
say. I'm listening to everythingthe younger generation has to
say. So I'm I'm nervous aboutwhat happens when I don't have
that advice on the other side.
Collen Luckett (22:35):
You become that person.
Kem Tolliver (22:37):
Yeah. We are the new we are the new adults.
Collen Luckett (22:40):
Yes. That's so weird to us. I hear you.
Kem Tolliver (22:43):
That happens. Yeah. You know, so I'll I'll
speak, about this topic in mycompany. They're so so the way
that that we're kinda structuredis we rely on, multigenerational
expertise. So we have arelationship with Johns Hopkins,
(23:05):
School of Public Health for,student interns.
So they come in and they do arotation with us, and we get to
learn so many really coolthings. I can't tell you how
much I've learned from Nick andJack and Yeah. You know, all of
our all of our student interns.Not only, technology because as
(23:29):
Tayah knows, I am, you know, Iam tech tech You love
Taya Gordon (23:36):
technology, and it hates you.
Kem Tolliver (23:37):
Hates you.
Collen Luckett (23:38):
I don't know why.
Kem Tolliver (23:43):
So so we have that, that opportunity to learn
from to learn from, you the theyounger generation. And so for
for my generation, Gen X, we wealso, I guess, you know, we're
kind of in the middle. Right?Right now, millennials and Gen
Xs. And, you know, the the teammembers that that that are in
(24:07):
that space, we're able to soakup and absorb information from
that, you know, the the theyounger generation, but we're
also able to guide them.
And I love seeing how my Gen Xteam members and millennial team
members are interacting withthat younger generation. We
recently had one of our studentschange her major to, become a
(24:32):
master in health careadministration based on the work
that she's been doing with someof our team members. So, I I
mean, I think that's just it'sso powerful. And then having
boomers so for me, again, asTayah said, you know, we're
raised with certain level of ofrespect that we have. I am
soaking up all the knowledgethat I possibly can from Steve
(24:54):
and from Denise and from Monicabecause, oh my gosh, they bring
so much, they bring so muchwisdom to the team.
So so we're all able tocollectively learn from each
other, and, I couldn't have itany other way. We have to have
that multigenerational, learningopportunity, and being exposed
(25:18):
to new ideas, old ideas, andand, you know, those those ways
of of thinking that that aregonna collaborate and pull,
align all of that together.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.