June 10, 2026 • 13 mins
This is a SPECIAL EDITIO of On the Ledge - you Ontario politics podcast. It's a "feed drop" from Newstalk 1010's Moore in the Morning.
The politics of trade, tariffs and public space all collide in this week's roundtable .
John Moore stickhandled ROUND ONE, featuring former Ontario PC leader Tim Hudak, Nexus Strategy Group CEO Marion Nader, and Story Studio Network’s Dave Trafford for a wide-ranging discussion on reports that the White House intervened to cancel meetings Premier Doug Ford had planned during his latest trip to Washington.
What does it tell us about the state of Canada-U.S. relations? Is it a negotiating tactic tied to CUSMA talks, or a signal that trade discussions are entering a more difficult phase? Dave doesn't think the "snub" was hostile at all. It suggests there may be some opportunities brewing behind closed doors.
The panel also examines Ford’s pledge to keep American alcohol off LCBO shelves until a trade deal is reached. Has Ontario’s boycott already changed consumer behaviour? And could Ontario wineries, breweries and local producers emerge as long-term winners regardless of how the trade dispute ends?
If you want smart, informed analysis of the issues shaping Ontario politics and public policy, this episode delivers plenty to think about.
You can watch OR listen to this episode on our YouTube Channel (Be sure to subscribe!)
Follow Dave on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn and X
And you can leave us a voice comment here!
For more information go to Dave's website.
The politics of trade, tariffs and public space all collide in this week's roundtable .
John Moore stickhandled ROUND ONE, featuring former Ontario PC leader Tim Hudak, Nexus Strategy Group CEO Marion Nader, and Story Studio Network’s Dave Trafford for a wide-ranging discussion on reports that the White House intervened to cancel meetings Premier Doug Ford had planned during his latest trip to Washington.
What does it tell us about the state of Canada-U.S. relations? Is it a negotiating tactic tied to CUSMA talks, or a signal that trade discussions are entering a more difficult phase? Dave doesn't think the "snub" was hostile at all. It suggests there may be some opportunities brewing behind closed doors.
The panel also examines Ford’s pledge to keep American alcohol off LCBO shelves until a trade deal is reached. Has Ontario’s boycott already changed consumer behaviour? And could Ontario wineries, breweries and local producers emerge as long-term winners regardless of how the trade dispute ends?
If you want smart, informed analysis of the issues shaping Ontario politics and public policy, this episode delivers plenty to think about.
You can watch OR listen to this episode on our YouTube Channel (Be sure to subscribe!)
Follow Dave on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn and X
And you can leave us a voice comment here!
For more information go to Dave's website.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Round one. On Round one, Tim Mudak is here, former
leader of Ontario's Conservatives. He's now at Council Public Affairs.
Dave Trafford is chief executive producer at Story Studio Network.
Marion Nader is a former NDP insider and now CEO
Nexus Strategy Group. Let me start, and I don't know
(00:23):
if it's particularly debatable, but it's disappointing news that apparently
the White House used some muscle to call off some
pretty important meetings that doug Ford had planned in Washington.
Dave Trafford, I'll start with you, and you know, this
certainly suggests a level of potentially hostility in the White House,
(00:44):
and you have to wonder why don't they want doug
Ford talking to business people.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I don't know that it is hostility, to be honest
with you, when you take everything into accountant And if
we get to the Gordya how Bridge, I think this
is part of that story because the Chamber of Commerce,
you know, is run and led by Ross Pero Junior,
and for the most part the Chamber would have been
in the hip pocket of the Republican Party since Donald
(01:09):
Trump came along. They are kind of the outliers they're
they're the guys who you know, are doing a lot
of complaining about what might be going on. So it
would have been a good thing, for sure for the
Premier to sit down and meet with the Chamber. But
it seems like an odd combination of influence to have
the White House all of a sudden be able to
somehow pressure a group that doesn't really align with his
(01:32):
perspective on tariffs and trade and all those sorts of
things because they're free traders, right. So I think this
is there's there's something else going on here under the surface.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
And then again you look at the Gordy House story.
I think that there's something moving here in terms of
where the talks are going. And I give the Premier
all the credit in the world. He is down there,
he's doing what he should be doing. He's not going
on Wolf Blitzer cheering for Democrats. So let's put that
in the you know, the table. But I think for
(02:01):
the most part, this is a measured effort by the Premier,
and I think the the Chamber of Commerce canceling is
a curious thing. I don't think it's hostile tim hoodak.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
It does kind of make glaringly obvious that the American
business community is mostly not on board with Donald Trump's
tariff agenda.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Well, that's that's true, and we've known that from the beginning.
Trafford had great comments there. So let me let me
go a big picture. There has been no leader in
Canada more impactful and on the right track than Premier
doug Ford. And he's here with his Economic Development Minister
Vic Fidelli. He was part of my team doing a
great job. They really get what you need to do,
(02:44):
and that's to convince Americans that, you know, getting back
to an open trading relationship is best not for Canadians,
but for Americans. I had the honor of going down
with Premier forward to Minister Fidelli when they were there
twenty twenty five. Is part of business delegation saw them,
you know, in hand to hand combat, so to speak
with an American officials. I'll tell you one story, John
that when US senator hosted a reception for us and
(03:06):
he made the joke that you know, we don't want
you Canadians to become the fifty first date. He all
voted for Trudeau and he really emphasized Trudeau. He said, oh,
maybe we'll take Albert and Saskatchewan, so I really appreciate
the premiers. And let's not forget he was just down
in Texas just about a week or so ago. He
met with the chair of the Chamber of Commerce, made
those business connections on his flight schedule South Carolina, Utah
(03:29):
coming up. By getting American allies on board, that is
good for both of us as far as fort to
North America. Doug Ford's leading the way.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
And Marie Ann, what do you tease out of the
fact that apparently it was the White House that kiboshed
some of doug Ford's meetings.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Well, I mean it's very clear. I mean, obviously this
is not a scheduling shoe. They were sending a message
and it tells you everything that we need to know
about the Kuzma negotiations and what's at the table. So
I mean they're starting to turn up the heat. This
is all about, you know, leverage and power, and they
don't care if it's going to be with you know,
the Prime Minister and the negotiating team or the premiere
(04:06):
of you know, one of the largest province in the country.
So that's what it is. It's leverage, its power and
these are going to be some really nasty negotiations, and
you know, good for him for trying, but at the
end of the day, there's no love loss there between
you know, Premiere Ford and the administration.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Meanwhile, Doug Ford in Washington, as we said, said yesterday
that as soon as Canada and the US have a
trade deal, US booze will come back, but not before.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
Well, I just want to get this deal done, and
I'm going to assure you once that deal is done,
I'm going to be sitting down and bringing all the
booze back on the shelves in Ontario and everyone's going
to be kumbaya. It's going to be deciation.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Would you consider putting boos back on the shelves before
the USMCA.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
No, No, I just want to get this deal done
and then we'll put that booze back on the shelves
and we welcome everyone. Maybe we'll have a little drink
at Kentucky Bourbon or something in Ontario.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Okay, Well, Tim Mudac will come to you since you've
been jonesing for bourbon. But also your former provincial riding
was wine Country.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
True true, Yeah, sweet sweet bourbon. The cause of the
solution to all of my problems.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
Job will.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Have last night point on Tim, you've got three holes
in your collection here, what's going on?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
So so look, it's it's.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
A right move. He cannot put the booze back in
the shelves until this is fixed. This is a very
standout visible thing and it has had an impact on
the American side that there is a price to be
paid on both sides of the border when things break down. However,
you make an excellent point, like I always thought that
the LCBO, because it is owned by the taxpayer, shouldn't
be strictly about how much money can you bring in?
(05:47):
But is there an economic development angle as well? And
so no doubt right now, whether it's a craft wineries,
whether it's a craft beer, whether it's the you know,
the big beer's international, they'll be lobbying to try to
maintain some of those shelves based game. My guess is it
ends up somewhere in the middle at the end of
the day that that's a good thing. I'll still get
the access to my bourbon sure, But I do think
the LCBO has a public role as long as the
(06:08):
government owns it, the taxpayers own it, it should also
has a factor. How can you support local economic development?
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Marian I suspect that a lot of the changed behavior
as a result of this boycott is going to remain
in place. You know, I think of my friends the
Speck Brothers and Henry of Pelham, and they say that
taking American product off of the shelves has been this
incredible boon for.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Them, absolutely one hundred percent, and it was the right
thing to do, and you know we shouldn't put it
back on the on the shelf, and it does give
other industries an opportunity. But like again going back to
my point, the American slapped these tariffs on us, called
the premiers, canceled the premiers meeting, called him some guy
in Ontario, you know, like he did do the right
(06:55):
thing here and it did have, you know, make waves,
you know down south. I feel like it's starting to
lose a little bit of the leverage. So you know,
I'm glad that it's going to help local industries here.
But right now, you know, workers and families aren't talking
about you know, Kumbaya moments or Kentucky bourbon.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, Dave Trafford, I don't know if you're a bourbon guy.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Are you no. But once in a while, I mean
I realized, though Hudak is going to show up on
the footnotes and any deal it's going to say he
was a key economic driver of the bourbon sales Ontario.
Here's the thing that occurs to me though, And the
premieer was, you know, very specific, we're not going to
put it back on the shelf unless until there is
(07:40):
a deal. So what does that mean? A sixteen year
extension of the current deal at this rate? And I
thought Brian Lilly's analysis prior to the Premier's trip south
this week was really good on this. And and you know,
Brian was pointing out the Americans are not likely to
cancel with six months notice, nor do they seem inclined
to go with the sixteen years. So we may be
(08:01):
in this year by year by year by year, nitpicking
all the way along. This sort of status quo is
where we are right now, where we will not have
a deal, And that in and of itself is interesting
just because of the way we're going to have to
cope with this. But to your point, John, around our habits,
you know, and we get in the habit of buying,
(08:23):
you know, a Canadian or a product, et cetera, at
the expense of the Americans. Even if they put it on,
would the would the market come back? I mean, you know,
and that's our legitimate question if this lingers on.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yeah, I'm not finding it. I know, Tim, it's like
length for you not being able to get to Bourbon.
But I'm not missing American wine.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
You know. This has been a boon, There's no doubt
about it, I think of I mean, I was proud
to represent one of the writings of the most Ontario
wineries anywhere in Canada, and this did give a chance
for greater exposure and people said, this is a really
good product, right, and this creates job zone in the
wineries with spinoffs and agriculture of spinoffs and tourism. And
I do hope there is a permanent shift. Look that
(09:07):
I dealt with this. I was a ministry sponsor with
the LCBO. I'd have the pressure from the foreign alcohol
producers that would threaten lawsuits. They didn't have proper access
to the shelves, and I just always felt there's a ballots. Yep,
we need to have good choice at the LCBO on
the shelves. American, Italian French what have you. But at
the same time, I do think there's an economic driver
(09:27):
and I hope that we do see a permanent shift
to open up, particularly for our craft wineries and breweries
in Ontario.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Community activists in the Gay Village are pushing back because
the city is proposing effectively closing Barbara Hall Park, which
is right next to the five nineteen community Center on
Church Street, closing it by the night hours. Dave Trafford,
let me come to you first on this one. I
kind of appreciate both sides in this debate because that
(09:54):
park is a magnet for trouble, but it's also a
community gathering place.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
It seems to me it's more confused by the counselor's
motion to actually close it and do repair. It conflates
the two things, and I think that's what sticks in
the craw of the number of people in the community,
because you know, at some point, can we fix it? Yes?
Is it unsafe?
Speaker 5 (10:13):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
So both things are true. But at the same time,
is this the best step to take and ban people overnight?
You know? Is there another way to do this? And
I think him throwing up his hands and saying, well,
I'm not going to have any more to say, because
I'm always the bad guy. We need leadership on those
sorts of things. So if there's a security problem in
an important, you know, public space in downtown Toronto, let's
(10:34):
deal with the security issue and let's deal with the maintenance.
So you can do two things at the same time
here without I think restricting accessibility as much as they
want to. I mean, I have a you know, crazy idea,
but you know, maybe you just have a police officer's
stroll through there, got three hour or so in the
middle of the night or wherever there's a problem and
(10:54):
clean it up. But the statistics around the number of
needles that are picked up, the problems that they have
with with you know, drug abuse, et cetera in that
park overnight, there's a problem that we're not dealing with
there that that seems to be the issue that we're
kind of all stick handling around.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, and Marion, it becomes sort of a case study,
I think in what's been going wrong for a lot
of recreational space and park space in the city of Toronto,
which is that you can't recreate there anymore because of
all the troublesome stuff that's going on.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
And that's the things I was a commissioner at the
City of Brempton and that was actually under my preview
and that's the thing. You have to balance, you know,
these two legitimate concerns residential safety as well as you know,
the responsibility to act and you know to help. You know,
closing a park is not going to stop you know,
the problem. So you need to also invest in you know,
(11:48):
mental health supports and housing and deal with with public safety.
And that's a governing choice. So right now it seems
they've got an optics problem as well as a legitimate problem.
So it's the counselor's motion, you know, to send it
back to staff to come up with solutions as great,
but the problem is there's still a concern that needs
(12:10):
to be addressed well.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
And Tim Hoodak, you'll get last word on this one.
I mean, technically, if I understand the city code, all
parks are closed at night. But the difference here is
that they want to actually put in a fans.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Yeah. Look, I'm thrilled to be on the penals. Mary
and Nader Mari and I work together at Queen's Park
and for a new Democrat, she surprisingly write a lot
of the time, John Morris, so I am with her.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
That's why you're my favorite conservative.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
It might not be a long list, but I'd rather
default like you said, John, and security keeping the park open,
then go the other way.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Thank you all. We're at a racetrack, but I appreciate
your insight this morning. Tim Hudak, Marion Nader, and Dave
Trafford coming up after the News, we'll talk about an
extraordinarily ambitious development project for the City of Toronto. Is
going to talk about how fake cases are being generated
in the court system by AI. Gavinie will offer us
(13:08):
some insight on that one.
Round one. On Round one, Tim Mudak is here, former
leader of Ontario's Conservatives. He's now at Council Public Affairs.
Dave Trafford is chief executive producer at Story Studio Network.
Marion Nader is a former NDP insider and now CEO
Nexus Strategy Group. Let me start, and I don't know
(00:23):
if it's particularly debatable, but it's disappointing news that apparently
the White House used some muscle to call off some
pretty important meetings that doug Ford had planned in Washington.
Dave Trafford, I'll start with you, and you know, this
certainly suggests a level of potentially hostility in the White House,
(00:44):
and you have to wonder why don't they want doug
Ford talking to business people.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I don't know that it is hostility, to be honest
with you, when you take everything into accountant And if
we get to the Gordya how Bridge, I think this
is part of that story because the Chamber of Commerce,
you know, is run and led by Ross Pero Junior,
and for the most part the Chamber would have been
in the hip pocket of the Republican Party since Donald
(01:09):
Trump came along. They are kind of the outliers they're
they're the guys who you know, are doing a lot
of complaining about what might be going on. So it
would have been a good thing, for sure for the
Premier to sit down and meet with the Chamber. But
it seems like an odd combination of influence to have
the White House all of a sudden be able to
somehow pressure a group that doesn't really align with his
(01:32):
perspective on tariffs and trade and all those sorts of
things because they're free traders, right. So I think this
is there's there's something else going on here under the surface.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
And then again you look at the Gordy House story.
I think that there's something moving here in terms of
where the talks are going. And I give the Premier
all the credit in the world. He is down there,
he's doing what he should be doing. He's not going
on Wolf Blitzer cheering for Democrats. So let's put that
in the you know, the table. But I think for
(02:01):
the most part, this is a measured effort by the Premier,
and I think the the Chamber of Commerce canceling is
a curious thing. I don't think it's hostile tim hoodak.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
It does kind of make glaringly obvious that the American
business community is mostly not on board with Donald Trump's
tariff agenda.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Well, that's that's true, and we've known that from the beginning.
Trafford had great comments there. So let me let me
go a big picture. There has been no leader in
Canada more impactful and on the right track than Premier
doug Ford. And he's here with his Economic Development Minister
Vic Fidelli. He was part of my team doing a
great job. They really get what you need to do,
(02:44):
and that's to convince Americans that, you know, getting back
to an open trading relationship is best not for Canadians,
but for Americans. I had the honor of going down
with Premier forward to Minister Fidelli when they were there
twenty twenty five. Is part of business delegation saw them,
you know, in hand to hand combat, so to speak
with an American officials. I'll tell you one story, John
that when US senator hosted a reception for us and
(03:06):
he made the joke that you know, we don't want
you Canadians to become the fifty first date. He all
voted for Trudeau and he really emphasized Trudeau. He said, oh,
maybe we'll take Albert and Saskatchewan, so I really appreciate
the premiers. And let's not forget he was just down
in Texas just about a week or so ago. He
met with the chair of the Chamber of Commerce, made
those business connections on his flight schedule South Carolina, Utah
(03:29):
coming up. By getting American allies on board, that is
good for both of us as far as fort to
North America. Doug Ford's leading the way.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
And Marie Ann, what do you tease out of the
fact that apparently it was the White House that kiboshed
some of doug Ford's meetings.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Well, I mean it's very clear. I mean, obviously this
is not a scheduling shoe. They were sending a message
and it tells you everything that we need to know
about the Kuzma negotiations and what's at the table. So
I mean they're starting to turn up the heat. This
is all about, you know, leverage and power, and they
don't care if it's going to be with you know,
the Prime Minister and the negotiating team or the premiere
(04:06):
of you know, one of the largest province in the country.
So that's what it is. It's leverage, its power and
these are going to be some really nasty negotiations, and
you know, good for him for trying, but at the
end of the day, there's no love loss there between
you know, Premiere Ford and the administration.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Meanwhile, Doug Ford in Washington, as we said, said yesterday
that as soon as Canada and the US have a
trade deal, US booze will come back, but not before.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
Well, I just want to get this deal done, and
I'm going to assure you once that deal is done,
I'm going to be sitting down and bringing all the
booze back on the shelves in Ontario and everyone's going
to be kumbaya. It's going to be deciation.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Would you consider putting boos back on the shelves before
the USMCA.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
No, No, I just want to get this deal done
and then we'll put that booze back on the shelves
and we welcome everyone. Maybe we'll have a little drink
at Kentucky Bourbon or something in Ontario.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Okay, Well, Tim Mudac will come to you since you've
been jonesing for bourbon. But also your former provincial riding
was wine Country.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
True true, Yeah, sweet sweet bourbon. The cause of the
solution to all of my problems.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
Job will.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Have last night point on Tim, you've got three holes
in your collection here, what's going on?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
So so look, it's it's.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
A right move. He cannot put the booze back in
the shelves until this is fixed. This is a very
standout visible thing and it has had an impact on
the American side that there is a price to be
paid on both sides of the border when things break down. However,
you make an excellent point, like I always thought that
the LCBO, because it is owned by the taxpayer, shouldn't
be strictly about how much money can you bring in?
(05:47):
But is there an economic development angle as well? And
so no doubt right now, whether it's a craft wineries,
whether it's a craft beer, whether it's the you know,
the big beer's international, they'll be lobbying to try to
maintain some of those shelves based game. My guess is it
ends up somewhere in the middle at the end of
the day that that's a good thing. I'll still get
the access to my bourbon sure, But I do think
the LCBO has a public role as long as the
(06:08):
government owns it, the taxpayers own it, it should also
has a factor. How can you support local economic development?
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Marian I suspect that a lot of the changed behavior
as a result of this boycott is going to remain
in place. You know, I think of my friends the
Speck Brothers and Henry of Pelham, and they say that
taking American product off of the shelves has been this
incredible boon for.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Them, absolutely one hundred percent, and it was the right
thing to do, and you know we shouldn't put it
back on the on the shelf, and it does give
other industries an opportunity. But like again going back to
my point, the American slapped these tariffs on us, called
the premiers, canceled the premiers meeting, called him some guy
in Ontario, you know, like he did do the right
(06:55):
thing here and it did have, you know, make waves,
you know down south. I feel like it's starting to
lose a little bit of the leverage. So you know,
I'm glad that it's going to help local industries here.
But right now, you know, workers and families aren't talking
about you know, Kumbaya moments or Kentucky bourbon.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, Dave Trafford, I don't know if you're a bourbon guy.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Are you no. But once in a while, I mean
I realized, though Hudak is going to show up on
the footnotes and any deal it's going to say he
was a key economic driver of the bourbon sales Ontario.
Here's the thing that occurs to me though, And the
premieer was, you know, very specific, we're not going to
put it back on the shelf unless until there is
(07:40):
a deal. So what does that mean? A sixteen year
extension of the current deal at this rate? And I
thought Brian Lilly's analysis prior to the Premier's trip south
this week was really good on this. And and you know,
Brian was pointing out the Americans are not likely to
cancel with six months notice, nor do they seem inclined
to go with the sixteen years. So we may be
(08:01):
in this year by year by year by year, nitpicking
all the way along. This sort of status quo is
where we are right now, where we will not have
a deal, And that in and of itself is interesting
just because of the way we're going to have to
cope with this. But to your point, John, around our habits,
you know, and we get in the habit of buying,
(08:23):
you know, a Canadian or a product, et cetera, at
the expense of the Americans. Even if they put it on,
would the would the market come back? I mean, you know,
and that's our legitimate question if this lingers on.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yeah, I'm not finding it. I know, Tim, it's like
length for you not being able to get to Bourbon.
But I'm not missing American wine.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
You know. This has been a boon, There's no doubt
about it, I think of I mean, I was proud
to represent one of the writings of the most Ontario
wineries anywhere in Canada, and this did give a chance
for greater exposure and people said, this is a really
good product, right, and this creates job zone in the
wineries with spinoffs and agriculture of spinoffs and tourism. And
I do hope there is a permanent shift. Look that
(09:07):
I dealt with this. I was a ministry sponsor with
the LCBO. I'd have the pressure from the foreign alcohol
producers that would threaten lawsuits. They didn't have proper access
to the shelves, and I just always felt there's a ballots. Yep,
we need to have good choice at the LCBO on
the shelves. American, Italian French what have you. But at
the same time, I do think there's an economic driver
(09:27):
and I hope that we do see a permanent shift
to open up, particularly for our craft wineries and breweries
in Ontario.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Community activists in the Gay Village are pushing back because
the city is proposing effectively closing Barbara Hall Park, which
is right next to the five nineteen community Center on
Church Street, closing it by the night hours. Dave Trafford,
let me come to you first on this one. I
kind of appreciate both sides in this debate because that
(09:54):
park is a magnet for trouble, but it's also a
community gathering place.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
It seems to me it's more confused by the counselor's
motion to actually close it and do repair. It conflates
the two things, and I think that's what sticks in
the craw of the number of people in the community,
because you know, at some point, can we fix it? Yes?
Is it unsafe?
Speaker 5 (10:13):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
So both things are true. But at the same time,
is this the best step to take and ban people overnight?
You know? Is there another way to do this? And
I think him throwing up his hands and saying, well,
I'm not going to have any more to say, because
I'm always the bad guy. We need leadership on those
sorts of things. So if there's a security problem in
an important, you know, public space in downtown Toronto, let's
(10:34):
deal with the security issue and let's deal with the maintenance.
So you can do two things at the same time
here without I think restricting accessibility as much as they
want to. I mean, I have a you know, crazy idea,
but you know, maybe you just have a police officer's
stroll through there, got three hour or so in the
middle of the night or wherever there's a problem and
(10:54):
clean it up. But the statistics around the number of
needles that are picked up, the problems that they have
with with you know, drug abuse, et cetera in that
park overnight, there's a problem that we're not dealing with
there that that seems to be the issue that we're
kind of all stick handling around.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, and Marion, it becomes sort of a case study,
I think in what's been going wrong for a lot
of recreational space and park space in the city of Toronto,
which is that you can't recreate there anymore because of
all the troublesome stuff that's going on.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
And that's the things I was a commissioner at the
City of Brempton and that was actually under my preview
and that's the thing. You have to balance, you know,
these two legitimate concerns residential safety as well as you know,
the responsibility to act and you know to help. You know,
closing a park is not going to stop you know,
the problem. So you need to also invest in you know,
(11:48):
mental health supports and housing and deal with with public safety.
And that's a governing choice. So right now it seems
they've got an optics problem as well as a legitimate problem.
So it's the counselor's motion, you know, to send it
back to staff to come up with solutions as great,
but the problem is there's still a concern that needs
(12:10):
to be addressed well.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
And Tim Hoodak, you'll get last word on this one.
I mean, technically, if I understand the city code, all
parks are closed at night. But the difference here is
that they want to actually put in a fans.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Yeah. Look, I'm thrilled to be on the penals. Mary
and Nader Mari and I work together at Queen's Park
and for a new Democrat, she surprisingly write a lot
of the time, John Morris, so I am with her.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
That's why you're my favorite conservative.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
It might not be a long list, but I'd rather
default like you said, John, and security keeping the park open,
then go the other way.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Thank you all. We're at a racetrack, but I appreciate
your insight this morning. Tim Hudak, Marion Nader, and Dave
Trafford coming up after the News, we'll talk about an
extraordinarily ambitious development project for the City of Toronto. Is
going to talk about how fake cases are being generated
in the court system by AI. Gavinie will offer us
(13:08):
some insight on that one.
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