July 20, 2026 • 54 mins
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What happens when our prayers become so filtered and "spiritual" that we lose the raw honesty of what we actually desire?
In this episode, Jaime and Alana take a 180-degree and head straight to Broadway. They dive into the concept of the musical theater "I want" song, using Tevye's famous track "If I Were a Rich Man" from Fiddler on the Roof as a surprisingly profound template for prayer. They discuss the danger of censoring our conversations with God, the freedom of bringing our most "frivolous" desires to Him, and how peeling back the layers of wanting money or status often reveals a pure, God-given need for security, respect, or peace.
Alana highlights how teaching middle schoolers about Disney character motivations led her to realize that every superficial desire has a deeper "prayer behind the prayer." Meanwhile, Jaime gets remarkably candid about a recent camping trip, unpacking her own guilt over wanting to look good in a swimsuit and tracing it down to a beautiful, core desire to remain healthy, strong, and capable of caring for her family.
Along the way, they swap practical wisdom on stripping away the "judgy Christian hat" that shames women for wanting a financial cushion, beautiful spaces, or basic human respect. From the reality of a mother's innate drive to provide, to Tevye's ultimate wish for simply having the time to sit and pray, they offer a refreshing perspective on approaching God exactly as you are—without pretending to be someone you aren't.
Whether you are stressing over your bank account, feeling guilty for caring about your appearance, or simply longing for a more conversational, authentic relationship with the Lord, we hope this episode encourages you to stop editing your prayers, uncover the true desires of your heart, and confidently bring your uncensored self to the Father.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Life Audio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hello and welcome to the Praying Christian Women podcast. I
am Milana here with Jamie. How are you doing?
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Doing great? How are you good?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I am very excited. We are taking a short break
from Witches and doing a complete one hundred and eighty
degree turn. We're going to Broadway, which everybody knows if
you've listened for a little bit at least. I always
will go back to Broadway eventually. So let me tell
(00:35):
you the story behind why I wanted to cover this
topic slash song to day. So I was subbing for
middle school English for the last week of school and
it was an unexpected departure from their normal teacher, so
I didn't have sub plans, so I just kind of
(00:55):
had to come up with my own something or other.
So one day we talked about character motivation and we
talked about I want songs. Is that a phrase you're
familiar with in like musical theater or Disney lingo?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
No, I have never heard of that.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
It was a really fun lesson to do with the kids.
So basically, an I want song, especially if you think
about Disney movies, but almost every musical has what it's
called an I want song, and this is where the
character sings their motivation and usually comes toward the beginning,
and it tells you like their driving desire. So really
common ones like in The Lion King we have I
(01:33):
just can't wait to be King, or Moana has her
really beautiful song how Far I'll go about, how she
longs for the ocean entangled. She's got the song when
will my Life Begin? Because she just wants something to
happen in her life. Belle sings, I want so much
more than this provincial life. So every Disney movie and
just about every musical that has singing in it, the
(01:56):
main character gets what's called an I Want song. And
what we were doing in class is we were going
through different I Want songs first to just identify what
is driving this character. But what I realized as we
were going through it is that every single I Want song,
you can go deeper and deeper, and basically what we're
(02:17):
talking about is what you and I have talked about before,
and it's like the prayer behind the prayer behind the prayer,
and so love it. You might say, Okay, so just
off the cuff, tell me a Disney movie that has singing,
and I'll see if I can can do it on
the fly.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Okay, the princess and the frog, I haven't seen that one. Okay,
my drawing up link Disney Cinderella. Cinderella.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Okay, she's the one I think she sings one day
my Prince will come? Right?
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Does that sound r? That sounds really?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
It's one of the og basically all of the I
Want songs in early Disney all the princess is one
of their prints. So what she wants is her prince
to come. And so on the one hand, you can say, okay,
she won romance and true love, but then what you
have to ask is what is the deeper motivation? And
then what you're trying to get to is the universal
(03:09):
motivation that will ring true for every single human who
has ever lived, or at least like ninety eight percent
of humans who have ever lived. So not everybody wants
to marry a prince. So we could make it more
universal by saying, oh, she wants to marry her true love. Well,
not everybody is motivated by love and romance, right, Either
you're too young to care, or maybe you've moved beyond it,
(03:31):
or you've been burned by love. So then you ask, well,
what is an even deeper, driving universal motivation.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
It goes beyond romance.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Maybe it's just to be loved and understood, or maybe
like Cinderella specifically, it's this universal fantasy of being rescued
from a life of dullness, you know. And so what
we realize listening to these I Went songs is like
you can kind of list three or maybe at the
most full or five like universal motivations, and every song
(04:04):
is going to take you back to one of those.
And so what I loved is none of the kids,
like all the middle school kids were too young to
have ever watched Fiddler on the Roof, which is the
I Want song we're going to be talking about, stay another.
Like when you're talking about super famous I Want songs,
you go to Fiddler if I were a rich man
because it's just fun. I know some pop star redid it,
(04:26):
but I don't know who. Have you heard that version
or do you know what I'm talking about? It's been
redone in a bajillion different ways. Apparently I was watching
a cute documentary about Fiddler. Apparently Fiddler on the Roof
is super popular in Japan, Like this is a musical
that truly does have universal appeal and it's I want
(04:46):
song from Its main character is if I were a
rich man. And on the surface, he's just singing about
how he wants to be rich, and it doesn't sound
like much and it's kind of a silly song. So
on the surface you think of, oh, this is just
like a fun, little goofy song about somebody who wants
more money than he has. But what I'm gonna do
is I'm going to walk you through it, going kind
(05:08):
of like what we did with the middle schoolers, going
deeper and deeper and deeper, and also talk about how
this song can be a really powerful prayer template. And
I'm not at all being like facetious or ironic. I
feel like analyzing this song not to be overly dramatic,
is like the culmination of just about everything that you
(05:30):
and I have ever talked about in praying Christian. That's
how excited I got about it.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
This is exciting, this is good. So tell me.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
About your knowledge and experience with the musical.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Fitnler on the roof, So I know I saw it
live somewhere I don't know, when I was pretty young,
and it was one of the first like musicals I
remember seeing it's the Is it the one with Matchmaker? Yes? Okay,
so I remember the Matchmaker scene with the girl with
the best and it's Matchmaker and Matchmaker make me a
(06:02):
met And I remember him literally sitting on the roof
ay and character singing, ah, you know, And I remember
him singing if I were a wealthy man, if I
were a rich man, I remember it being like the
feeling I got when I saw I mean, I just
remember it was a really good thing. But if I
had to recall the actual like plot from beginning to end,
(06:25):
I wouldn't be able to tell you. So I know
pieces of it, and I know it's uh, is this
the little Girl? You know?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Oh my gosh, that song is so sad and beautiful. Yeah,
there's there's some really really good songs in there for
anybody who needs the warning and the reminder. Act two
is so sad like it's a feel good. Act one
is so feel good, and then it just goes so
downhill like it does not have the regular happy musical
(06:54):
beats past the first two thirds of Act one, but
really really important, the very basic premise is Tevia is
a Russian Jew and I'm gonna guess the early nineteen hundreds,
because there's still czars, so it must be early nineteen hundreds.
And he's got three daughters who are all getting close
(07:15):
to marriage age, and each of them chooses a husband,
and each of their husband choices gets progressively farther from
the tradition. So the first daughter, she just chooses a
poor tailor, and it's revolutionary because they chose each other
and didn't go through the matchmaker. The second one chooses
(07:39):
a like Bolshevik revolutionist and you know, an outsider from Ukraine,
so that's an even bigger deal. And then the last
one marries someone who's not even Jewish and ends up
like devastatingly getting disowned by her like the whole Like
I said, Act two, so sad, Act one ends on
a pogrom like it's it's really really not the happy
(08:02):
musical that you would think it is. If all you
knew is the song if I were a rich man
or a tradition at the beginning, Do you remember that one?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yes, So that's the basic.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Premise, and it's this man in his traditional ways coming
or trying to come to terms with the fact that
his daughters are all becoming progressively more removed from that.
Like if I were going to write a modern day
Fiddler on the Roof for an Evangelical Christian family, it
would be the first child like lives with their fiance
(08:35):
before they're married, and the parents have to deal with that,
and then the second child marries like somebody from a
pretty different denomination, right, like going from I don't want
any denominations.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
But you know what I mean, like Protestant, Catholic or
you know something like that, Yeah, within Protestanty, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Exactly, but like denominations that don't play well but still
fall under the cris believe in Jesus, right, and then
the last one, like Mary's an atheist and like disowns
the church. Like that's the progression that Tevia is going
through as he's watching his daughters at this specific point
in history. Right in the middle of actbun we get
(09:19):
this beautifully happy if I were a rich man song,
which again on the surface, sounds like a funny man
singing about wanting to be wealthy. But we're going to
take it and go like deeper and deeper and deeper
into it and see how this is actually the most
profound template for prayer that I have ever found outside
(09:41):
the Book of Psalms or outside the Lord's.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Prayer or anything in the New Testament.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
So it starts off with the very basic if I
were a rich man all day long, night, bitty bitty
bomb like. Basically, the scene is he's feeding all his
chicken and cows, and he's working really hard, and he's
just kind of singing to himself about being a rich friend.
But here's the other thing I love about Teba, the
(10:08):
main character. He is always talking to God in the
most conversational style that I have ever heard anybody.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Speak to the Lord.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
And yes, I know that Tebbe is not a real person,
but I from now on he's He's real in my heart,
so bear with me. He just talks to God. And
so he starts off the song and says, Dear God,
you made many many poor people. I realize, of course,
that it's no shame to be poor, but it's no
great honor either, So what would have been so terrible
(10:39):
if I had a small fortune? And throughout the entire
show we see him just having these kinds of conversations
with God. Something pops into his mind and he says
it to the Lord, and so a I just like
that aspect about Teba, about being more conversational in prayer
than most of us feel the free them to be.
(11:01):
But I want to go specifically into if I were
a Richmond, because most of us would have lots of
gut checks and qualms and icky feelings about our very
first prayer of the day being God, I really want
to have more money, and I am probably going to
(11:21):
say rightly so like that truly shouldn't be the driving
factor for any of us. Like there is enough in
the Book of Proverbs alone to lead us to understand
that money is not the most important thing in the world,
and the love of money can lead to all kinds
(11:43):
of terrible things. I love my grandma's quote about money.
I think I told you that she said it to
me just in the past couple of years. She says,
money isn't everything, but sometimes it sure can help. And
she was talking about it in the context of having
long term disability insurance because she wasn't sure if eventually
she was going to need it, but she knew that
(12:04):
if she did need it, that she would probably be
taken care of it. So it's like, you know, I know,
money isn't everything, but it can help sometimes. Yeah, so
is it a sin to pray for more money?
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Let's start there, my knee jerk reaction, having not thought
through all of the theological and you know whatever, I
would say No. Number one, if you're thinking it and
(12:39):
prayer is a conversation, I don't see why you wouldn't
say it in the presence of God. If you're thinking
to yourself, and you know Jesus says give us this
day our daily bread, which can translate to if you
don't have money for your daily bread, then why would
you not pray that God would provide that, even if
(13:00):
it's just a want and not a need. If it's
I sure could use a cushion so that I'm not
so anxious all the time and so I feel like
I could be more present for my family or whatever.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Well you mean like a financial cushion. I was fixturing
you wanted to buy yourself a little throw pillow so
that you didn't feel so anxious.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Filled with money. Yeah, what kind of throw pillow is this?
And where do I get one? Okay, this will be
another one of our praying Christian women trademarked and patented. Yes,
the pillow that anti anxiety pillow. No a cushion like
to a cushion of money, like more financial cushion, financial cushion,
(13:44):
just like not paycheck to paycheck that we have you know,
read whatever. So I still see no problem with bringing
that to God. And I think if you know, in
James it says you ask and you do not receive
because you ask with impure motive, with selfish motives that
you can spend, you know, frivolously. So I don't see
(14:05):
why we shouldn't at least bring our desires to God,
if for no other reason than to put it under
the authority of truth and say, God, this is how
I'm feeling, this is what I want, and maybe to
even just be like, if this isn't serving me well,
to be focused on this, then help change my heart.
(14:26):
I feel like there can be different motives at the
core of asking for more money, and so you have
to look at that too, like are you asking for
more money so that you can be more generous or
help someone or help your family to achieve something that
is important to them or to you. And then on
(14:46):
the other hand, you could be manipulative in your prayers
about money and say, you know, like oh well, Dave
Ramsey says that I'm going to, you know, get money.
Like his whole stick is you get so you can get.
And I think that's great. But I could see myself
convincing myself that it's fine to amass lots of resources
(15:10):
and just so I can give and then end up giving,
you know, maybe a lot, but still saving and getting.
And I think it's where you where do you put
your security? Is your security coming from that money? Or
you know, you could look at give us this day
or daily bread as give us just what we need
right now, so that we don't get too dependent on
(15:30):
money for security, and we remember from whom our help comes.
So I basically just threw a bunch of spaghetti at
the wall, and you guys can decide.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
We'd love to all of your spaghetti. It was delicious, yeall.
So when Tavia says, even at the beginning, I realize
it's no shame to be poor, but it's no great
honor either, it reminds you of what Paul says. He says,
I have learned the secret of being content in any
in every situation, whether well fed or hungry. So it's
no great sin to be poor. It's no great shame
(16:01):
to be poor, it's no great sin to be rich.
It's no great shame to be rich. It is what
it is. And so hey, I love Tavia's reminder that
like money is money, Like it doesn't have to be
more loaded than that, right, But we attach.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Oh, I'm like, what did I pun? Yes, but we
attach so much to it.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
And I think something of that is because we get
mixed messages in the Christian community. We get messages of
you can only have a certain amount of money because
it says give us to stay our daily bread. It
doesn't say give us a stay our retirement bread. But
we also get we are generous so that God will
be generous to us. And then we also get it's
more virtuous to be poor because Jesus was poor. Like,
(16:45):
we get a lot of mixed messages, and then all
of that gets tied up in the American dream and
in you know, like there is so much corporateness that
is part of Western churches today and you can't wead
that out. Just it is, you know, in the same
way to like you go to church and you breathe
oxygen because oxygen is in the Air's like you go
(17:06):
to church and you breathe corporate capitalistic ideas, because that's
the society that at least you and I are in,
and a lot of our listeners are in.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Like, so it is, it's just there.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
And so I think that's one of the takeaways we
get from Tevia, Like he's praying about money because money
is on his mind and that's literally all that it
has to be. So I loved what you said, is like,
is it wrong for money to be the primary thing
you want in life? It probably is, but it's probably
just as bad, and it's definitely no better to have
(17:43):
money be your primary motivation and then go to God
and pretend like it's not. And So what is so
refreshing and beautiful about Tavia in the entire musical, but
especially in the song, is like there's no pretense, right,
he wants money, and so he's not ashamed to come
to God and say I want money. And let's be
(18:04):
honest here, Like Tavia is not wrong to want more
than he has, Like it is he is a poor
dairy farmer with a crippled horse and can't make his
deliveries and he's got five daughters to feed and find
dowries for like he does not He literally does not
have as much as he needs to have.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
What he needs.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Right, I know that was redundant, and I kind of
did that deliberately. And here's something I think, especially for
women and moms, we have such an innate drive to
make sure that our families are provided for. Yeah, like
that is a core need of ours to make sure
that our families feel safe and secure. But we're also
(18:48):
told from a lot of areas that it's wrong to
pray for material things or it's wrong to put your
trust in material things. And yes, it is wrong to
trust in your riches over God, but it's not wrong
to once to know that your family's not going to
be hungry next week. It's not wrong to want to
(19:09):
know that you can afford to get your child's shoes
for the school year. And so I want to talk
specifically to the mom or the grandma or whoever's listening,
who who is so caught up in that fear that
you are shaming yourself for not having what you need
(19:29):
and then feeling bad that you're praying about not having
the things that you need. As women, we need to
know that our loved ones are taken care of. That
doesn't mean that we need every single thing in the world.
But if your child needs shoes for school and you
do not know where money for their shoes for school
is going to come from, it is not wrong for
(19:50):
you to feel that in the core of your good
If you look in the fridge and you are concerned
because you just don't have enough nutritious stuff to give
yourself an your family, you are not being sinful for
worrying about that. Or if you're looking at your bank
account and you don't know how things are going to
get taken care of, it is not wrong for you
to recognize that you are in hard financial times and
(20:14):
this is a hard economy, and so I hope that
this is sinking in. Like as women, this is not
something to be ashamed of. This is something to celebrate
because we were designed to make sure that our loved
ones are provided for and so when that's not happening,
we are going to feel that unease. And what I
(20:35):
love about Tedbia going back to if I were a
rich man, he has no shame coming to God saying God,
I want a small fortune. Okay, he's starting with where
he is.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I'm not going to say that.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Everyone, now drop to your knees and pray these magic words,
and God's going to give you a small fortune, or
you know, let's go ahead and make it a big fortune.
We're not after that. What we're after is be one
hundred percent honest and transparent with God with exactly where
you are. And if that means you say, God, I'm
terrified that we're not gonna be housed next year, you
(21:09):
start there. If it's God, I'm really sad that I
couldn't go on this luxury vacation that I go on
every year, but I'm also feeling guilty for feeling bad
about it.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
You start there.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
If it's I'm really, really really really really want to
get this promotion because I've worked super hard for it
and I really want this addition to my paycheck.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
You start there.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
But none of us are going to end where we
start in our prayer, and I think that's another message.
So let's go to VERSU. He starts with, I want
to be a rich man. I don't want to work
hard all day long.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
I'm in a bitty bitty bomb.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Okay, that's his surface, that's just he's starting with exactly
where he is. He says, I'd build a big, tall
house with rooms by the dozen, right in the middle
of the town, a fine tin roof with real wooden floors.
Below there would be one long staircase just going up
and one even longer coming down. More leading nowhere just
for show. Okay, on the surface, we see a man
(22:05):
with very frivolous wants and desires. And so now I'm
going to have you do what I did with the
middle schoolers, not to be condescending to you, but just
because it was a really cool exercise. How far can
you take this? Because not all of us want a
house with one staircase going up and one going down
and one just for show. So how how many steps
(22:27):
can we get until we hit on a universal desire
that ninety percent or more of us are going to
relate to.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
So I think he wants to be able to have
nice things, And to me, the just for show makes
me think that he wants to have something he can
take pride in and something that he can just be
proud of.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yeah, and sometimes there is a reason for beauty. It
took me a long time to realize, but that's what
having houseplants has taught me, Because I grew up so
stoic that anything that didn't have a very precise function
was a waste of time and money and energy. And
so I literally got into houseplants when I learned that
(23:17):
they cleaned the air. That gave me permission to have
them because they were serving a purpose. Now I've learned
to appreciate them because they are beautiful additions to my
space and learning to be okay with that. It's kind
of like does our sanctuary and I'm guilty of this.
We have this little spot in our church's sanctuary where
(23:39):
we can hang like a little banner, and there were
some people in the church who take a lot of
joy out of changing that banner from season to season,
or having it matched the fake flowers on the centerpiece
or things like that. Have I in the past rolled
my eyes a little bit about it?
Speaker 1 (23:57):
M hm.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Do I, at least on a lodge level, recognize that
there is a place for something to be beautiful just
because it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Absolutely? Yeah. Look at Solomon's Temple and the care and
the you know, the the artisans, everything that went into
that to just make it beautiful for the glory of God,
just for beauty's sake, and I'm that way. I was
always very much like, I'll put time into a vegetable garden,
(24:26):
but I don't want flowers, Like why would I want flowers?
And you know, over the years, I've started to understand more.
I'm kind of that way about fashion. I don't personally
have many fashionable clothes or any but I can appreciate
the artistic expression of fashion on a cerebral level where
(24:48):
I can see, you know what, that's somebody's expression of
beauty and why not like that's okay? And I used
to be a little stoic about that, like a T
shirt and gene like, mom, why do I have to
even like brush my hair? And now my daughter, who
I've got a hound to brush her hair, I'm like
totally getting it back, but it's hilarious. Same with hair
(25:11):
styles and extensive makeup, Like I don't do either of
that really, and you know, but I can totally appreciate
the value in beautiful things.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
So yes, this was driven home to me when we
did our Proverbs thirty one study. That was honestly, I
think my biggest or one of my biggest takeaways. We
did a whole mini series on how does the proverb
thirty one woman pray. And I realized how much baggage
I carry about things that are seen as frivolous, you know,
(25:43):
and how how silly it is to like who cares
if someone chooses to put lipstick on before church or not?
Like that's that's her and God. And yeah, some people
are doing it for right reasons. Some people are doing
it from habits. Some people are abstaining for por like
who cares? It's like it's like what color socks am
I going to wear? It literally does not have to
(26:05):
have any bearing on your life, but if it does,
then whatever you do, do it for the glory of good.
And I think that again, as women, just like we
were designed to protect our homes, were designed to bring
a sense of peace and common beauty to our homes.
And some of us do that in one way, some
of us do it in another way. And I think
(26:26):
a lot of women, especially in the church, get shamed
for wanting to have a beautiful space. I remember being
part of a church that had just built its first building,
and in a way they did it well, but in
a way they also poo pooed it, like they had
a decorating committee and they recognized, like they say that
(26:49):
we want you ladies to make our church beautiful.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
But there was also a little.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Bit of kind of like jostling and teasing and like
you do the pretty you do the pretty work, and
we'll get the roof on, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (27:06):
There was a little bit of that.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Too, And why can't we have both? Like Teva wants
a big tall house with a real tin roof, fanty
ones a frivolous staircase for no reason whatsoever. But here's
what I'm also saying about Tevia. He still is being
a little frivolous here. But we can go and we
can ask ourselves. Okay, but what does he really really want?
(27:28):
Because I think sometimes with prayer, we don't even know
the prayer behind the prayer till we start pray. And
Teva is just scratching the surface still. But could you
read the next part about the yard with chicks and turkeys.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yeah, which rings hits home for you right with your knee. Chickens.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
We just got some meat birds.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
It's been really fun.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
We haven't had chickens in like five to eight years.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
It's a long time into it. I'd fill my yard
with chicks and turkeys and geese and ducks for the
town to see in here squawking just as as they can,
and each loud of the ghee be it gao, be
it ge ga.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
He makes really weird noises.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Okay, I'm not going to do that for you guys.
Not doing it would land like a trumpet on the ear,
as if to say, here lives a wealthy man. Ah.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
All right, So let's dissect this one. So he wants
lots of animals, he wants his farm to be full.
We have, on the one hand, the food security and
living in Alaska, living in rural Alaska, living around people
who have always lived a subsistence lifestyle. I understand what
(28:41):
food security means more than I ever did, back when
you just drove yourself to a store and got your groceries.
Food security is just knowing that if you don't get
to town for three weeks for this side or the
other reason, you're still going to have enough to eat.
And so on the one hand, there's the only more
(29:01):
universal desire is probably for water and I guess oxygen
than food, you know. So he's hitting on that, But
he's also hitting on another motivation that most of us
would shy away from admitting to ourselves, or to each other,
or to God. He says he wants all of the
(29:22):
squawkings to land like a trumpet on the ear, as
if to say, here lives a wealthy man. He does
want the sign of wealth. So in our culture, for
a lot of people, that's the car, or that's the
fancy per So those are the first thing that come
to my mind. Can you think of any others?
Speaker 1 (29:40):
I think the cars and purses are the biggest ones.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
It used to be watches, and I think in certain
circles of I but you know, we all get our
we all get our time from our phones.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, watches, you know, gadgets, Yeah, the newest smartphone, although
everyone kind of has sort of the same phones. Like
I don't feel like, I mean know, there's a spectrum,
but yeah, I think yeah probably and maybe just like
I know in our neighborhood, a lot of people are
meticulous about their yards. And that doesn't mean you're wealthy,
(30:13):
but it's like it's another pride thing. Yeah, it's taking
care a sign of wealth, but it's like it's like
a pride thing. And I see that with the you know,
one more staircase leading nowhere just for show, and you know,
those ideas of just wanting it to be more than
just comfort for his family, but wanting other people to know.
So that to me says I want to be respected, Like, yes,
(30:36):
I want, And as we see later it's not necessarily
like respected for how hard Well maybe it is. He's
later on he talks about, you know, not having to work,
but like maybe he wants people to say all of
his hard work and maybe he wants to know even
for himself, like all of this hard work has gone
for something. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Yeah, And that's why we've said for like, there needs
to be a word for pride, and there needs to
be a word for pride, and one of them needs
to be the thing that we're very quick to run
away from, and the other should be something that we
can either accept and embrace or at the very least
be ambivalent about.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Like I'm proud of my children.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
I'm not worried that God's going to smite me for
being proud of my kids, and I hope you aren't either.
So there are certain scenarios where we understand that pride
is supposed to be good, you know, like if you
have a three year old who's just learned how to
do something, you know, tricky. Maybe they've just learned how
to write the first letter of their name or something like.
(31:36):
You're supposed to feel proud of them, and you're supposed
to help them to feel proud of themselves. But then
somehow it gets so complicated, just like money, it gets
so into well, don't pride is a sin? Well, yes,
there is a pride that is a sin, and then
there is a pride that is actually a really good
thing to have in yourself, you know, like taking pride
in your lawn. That could be a sin, That could
(31:58):
be a really wise way to steward what God has
given you. And it all comes down to what's in
your heart. But yeah, so I think here we have
to have. He definitely is is not too stoic sainthood
on our litmus test of how pure are his motivations,
But he is so honest and he's touching a little.
(32:20):
I think he's getting deeper at the very surface. He
just didn't want to have to work as hard as
he does. The next level is he wants to be
respected by people. And I think we can call that
a universal desire that.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
At its core is not wrong. It is not wrong
to wants to be respected.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Now, it's wrong to want to be like worshiped or
envied or things like that, but it's not wrong to
want your dignity as a human being to be acknowledged
in the same way that you acknowledge the dignity.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Of other human beings.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Right, there's just sort of a universal human respect that
I believe is innate that if we are not receiving it,
we do feel a lac and tevia. Being in a
Jewish community where there is persecution and being one of
the poorest members of that community, he isn't getting and
(33:16):
he's a very henpecked husband. He's not getting the respect
that universally a human deserves. His first way of knowing
how to express that is saying, I want a great, big,
long staircase going up right, just like you know the
middle aged man their first I need the sports car. Okay,
(33:39):
but what's deeper than that, and then what's deeper than that?
And then what's deeper than that is I want the
respect that I am owed just because of the fact
that I am a human being who is creating in
God's image, and you can't fault somebody for knowing that
because I am a human being and because I'm a
child of God, I deserve the baseline level.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Of respect that every human deserves.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Then we go down to he talks about his wife.
He says, I see my wife, my goldie, looking like
a rich man's wife with a proper double chin. And
I love this.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
I love that line.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
That is so funny. Supervising meals to her heart's delight.
I see you're putting on airs and strutting like a peacock.
Oh what a happy mood she's in, screaming at the
servants day and night. Okay, so if you want to
put on your super super judgy Christian hat, tell me
everything that's wrong with Tevy's motivations from this. From this verse,
(34:49):
he is.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Praying for excess and gluttony to the point that she's
you know, has more weight than she needs, which to
him symbolize is prosperity, and supervising meals putting on airs. Again,
the word pride comes to mind. Strutting like a peacock,
and then you know, being happy herself and yet screaming
(35:14):
at the servants and making them feel small.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Not very christ like that part especially. I don't like
that last light. Yeah, but we can if we want
to be very gracious towards Tevia. I mean, hey, we're
starting with you know what, Teva, you are where you are,
so go ahead and tell God where you are. And
I don't censor it. So that's good enough. But other
than the screaming at the servants, which we don't want
(35:40):
to get behind, I think there is a sense kind
of like what we talked about with mothers wanting to
know that your family's taken care of. There is a
sense of just wanting to know that your loved ones
are provided for. And so if we want to go
to his deeper motivation and maybe try to hit on
the universal motivations, it's I don't want my loved ones
(36:01):
to worry, you know, Like I don't know how well
you remember Goldie the musical, but she's a nag and
she's a worry wart and she's always hounding him and
he loves her to death and it's actually like it's
really really beautiful and sweet and cute, and he wants
her to be happy. And in his mind, what's going
(36:23):
to make Goldie happy is being fat and having a
lot of servants to yell at. Now, is that truly
what's gonna make Goldie happy? No, but that is just
his most uncensored first knee jerk reaction to this universal
motivation of I want the woman that I love more
(36:43):
than anything in the world to be happy. So again,
just like all the other verses, we are getting the
uncensored tuba. And then we can just shave a sight,
a tiny, tiny bit and hit the layer that has
no sinfulness, no sense elfishness to whatsoever. And that is
just this universal God given desire to see your loved
(37:07):
ones happily provided for. Like even John in one of
his epistles, he says, I have no greater joy than
that my children are walking in the truth. Like, what
is going to make you and me more happy as
we get older. It's just knowing that our kids are
are fine and well, Like if I know that. Okay,
(37:28):
So here's another thing. I was asking myself, you know
how we were talking about I want songs.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
I was going through my entire Broadway repertoire, and I
was being like, out of all these beautiful because they're
usually very belty, they're usually like Dawn from the gut.
I was trying to see what is my life's I
want song? And what I realized was it's the song
I might get teary like, it's a song that Goldie
sings to her daughter's or Sabbath prayer. She just wants
(37:57):
them happy, Yeah, and she just wants them to be
well taken care of, and she just wants them to
be Okay, that is an like, that's not a selfish
desire to have for your loved ones.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
No, okay, let's go to the next verse.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Can you read it about the most important men in town?
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yes? Before we do that, can I say one more
thing about this last part. I feel like Tevia is
like he probably sees her hard work and this idea
of her yelling at servants. I picture him picturing her
yelling at him, and he still loves her. He knows
that she loves him. He's just her way, and so
I feel like maybe it's like her yelling at the
(38:40):
servants and kind of just her personality. But she has
servants to yell to, so she can rest, she can
look beautiful, she can feel good about herself. She can
you know, take a load off and just enjoy life.
For a little bit. I think that's kind of the
core of that desire there, instead of it being you know,
exactly whipping the servants. But anyway, okay, so we are next.
(39:03):
The most important men in town would come to fawn
on me. They would ask me to advise them, like
a solemnon the wise, if you please, rebteva, pardon me
rebteva posing problems that would cross a rabbi's eyes.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
So we're getting even deeper to the respect. He's gone
from provision to respect. And I'm sure if we were
sociologists we could even like transpose these onto that like
mass love, hierarchy or whatever it's called. You know what
I mean, Like, once your basic needs for food and
(39:38):
water and shelter are taken care of, you want that respect,
You want that belonging. Now, yes, if I want to
put on my really really judgie Christian hat, I'm going
to look at him and wag my finger at him
for not knowing that he is loved by God no
(39:58):
matter what other people think of him. But when I
put on my gracious hat and Teba, you're in every
man hat, I say, yeah, we all want respect. And
then you think about his history being a Jew in
a region that gets regular programs, being one of the
(40:19):
poorest in your town, having a wife who nags you incessantly,
and you can see this craving for respect is not selfish.
And I think this is the first verse where I
don't even think we have to scratch off a layer
to get to the pure, nonsinful, uncensored Teba motivation. Some
(40:44):
people might disagree a little bit. Some people are going
to say, well, you should be so secure in who
you are in Christ that you don't need the esteem
of others. But honestly, I think that could be a
little prideful. It's almost like I don't need what every
single human actually does need, which is community. Like if
you don't like the word respect, if that feels too
close to pride, just community and belonging. Please don't be
(41:07):
so arrogant to think that you don't need that.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Yeah, And I mean you could maybe it's a stretch,
but you could take it a layer deeper and say,
maybe he wants to contribute in a way that goes
beyond just his provision. Like I wan't agree. Wise, I
want to be able to advise people and make a
difference on a community level. And not just you know,
(41:30):
pluging a way to just put food on the table. Exactly.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
He has the heart of a scholar living the life
of a really hard working farmer who never gets a
day off. And that takes us to the very last verse,
which is where we get his complete uncensored like, this
is the true Tavia. If I were rich, I'd have
the time that I lack to sit in the synagogue
and pray and maybe have a seat by the eastern wall.
(41:56):
I discuss holy books with the learned men several hours
every day, and that would be the sweetest thing of all.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Wow, that is cool.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
And so what I love is most of us would
force ourselves to start our prayer with that pure motivation.
We would say, God, please give me money so I
can be generous. We wouldn't start with I really want
money so my wife can be fat and so I
can have a frivolous staircase. But Teeda starts exactly where
(42:29):
he is, and with each verse he peels back a
layer and becomes reveals more of his actual motivation until
you get to something that is so pure and so beautiful.
That's the real Like this is the prayer behind the
prayer he wants money so that he has time to
(42:50):
pray and study the Bible, and he says that would
be the sweetest gift of all. But to get to
that part of his prayer, he started with wanting to
not have to work hard, And he started with wanting
a wife who's free to yell at his servants, and
to have a bunch of chickens who are so loud
that they're squawking, so that the whole town knows that
he's rich, you know, And so I love the progression.
(43:14):
It shows how if you start censored, you're never going
to get.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
As real with the Lord as Tevo Gott.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
If you start with, Dear God, please help me to
have more money so that I can be more generous,
there's nowhere to go from there. If you start with God,
I am so stressed out about money right now. I
just need two weeks where I don't have to worry
about bills. I just need, like I need a job
where I know that if my kid got sick, I
could take a few days off and not have to
(43:45):
not be able to make my utilities. Like, you start
where you are, and then you can get to like
the true center. But if you try to censor right
from the beginning, You're never going to get there.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
And also you miss out on true relationship. It's kind
of like the difference between pouring your heart out to
your best friend over coffee and standing at a Miss
America pageant saying your deepest desire is for world peace.
You know, like you're losing a lot of relationship. So
(44:18):
what stands out to you from this the most? The
last segment that's really sometimes I think, like when I'm
not even necessarily financially, but like in a place where
i feel like I'm so tied up with practicalities or
(44:39):
so worried about a certain thing that I'm not able to,
I don't have the energy to pray. I don't have
that space. I think about that sometimes when I'm not
in those situations and I do have that time in
that space, I feel very privileged because I think there
are some people who don't have the time and space
(45:02):
to pray right now, and to not that you can't
pray on the fly and incorporate it into parts but meditation.
He's talking about sitting in the synagogue and praying. He's
talking about sitting by the Eastern wall. Is that the
whaling wall or I guess the Eastern So that's what
(45:24):
I was wondering. I don't know, but basically the two
to sit in God's presence and just even to contemplate.
I mean, I just I think a lot of times
about how philosophy feels like it's dying because people are
so busy with doing and just even the time, you know,
(45:46):
to sit and think and be and listen. So that's
that's that. I didn't read ahead. So that took me
by surprise. Yeah, I was taking section at time, and yeah,
so that really took me by surprise. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Yeah, So I would say some of the takeaways be
as candid with God, Like, be painfully candid with God,
and He already knows where you're at anyway, So don't
try to put on a better face. Don't be the
person on the first day trying to be ten times
more impressive than you are, Like, be genuinely who you
are because God already knows. And then trust that the
(46:26):
more you pray through an issue, the more you're going. Like,
don't be afraid of praying superficially, because God can take
what starts as a superficial prayer and reveal some of
the deepest desires of your heart. So I would say
even listener homework aside from everyone going out and watching
at least the first act I've fen lare on the roof. Yeah,
(46:48):
this would be like, take a desire you have, even like,
tell me if you want to. I'll tell you the assignment.
Then you tell me if you want to do it
on the air. Candidly, take a desire that you feel
is almost frivolous, like maybe something you'd be a teeny
tiny bit embarrassed to admit to, you know, the person
werrying that Judgie Christian hat. And then ask yourself, what's
(47:10):
my desire behind that desire or my prayer behind the prayer,
and see if you can strip it away to something
that is just as genuine and beautiful as at last
verse if I were a rich man.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
Okay, I'll be very candid. Yes, we went camping this
weekend with some friends and everyone was wearing bathing suits
and I was wearing a bathing suit and I had
like a cover thing that was pretty modest that covered
is you know more, And I was thinking, I don't
like I just didn't feel comfortable in a bathing suit
(47:44):
because I've put on extra pounds and I am so yeah,
So my thought was I want to look good in
a bathing suit?
Speaker 2 (47:54):
And did you feel guilty for having that thought? Like
did you shame yourself for thinking that? Kind of because
I a lot of women would sure, because.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
The first thing that comes to mind is, well, who's
it for? You know? Is it for you know, you
try and impress other people or you know? But and
also because you know, I'm not morbidly obese or anything,
but everything is shifted and I just and the core
I would say, like number one, some of it is superficial.
(48:25):
Some of it is just being superficial, but very superficial.
Let's start there. Superficial. I want to look good because
I want to. I guess I want when other people
look at me, I want them to think that I'm healthy,
that I'm not healthy, care of yourself, making care of myself,
thank you, because healthy isn't the word that that I
(48:47):
take care of myself. And maybe I equate being in
shape with people perceiving that I'm motivated or like.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Oh it's that idea of product activity productive. Yes, yeah, yeah,
that is somehow like morally superior.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Yeah yeah, and then you know, a layer below that is, yes,
I want to be healthy. I know what it feels
like to be in the habit of working out, to
be in you know, to basically be in a place
where I feel strong and where I look strong, and
I miss that. I look back a little bit and think, yeah,
(49:29):
I want to look strong. I want to feel strong
because I had more energy, because I was able to
do more things without getting out of breath or without
you know, needing help to do it. So and then
and then there is the health thing too, That's that's
part of it. But I will say, you know, I
definitely do I look at fitness now differently. I know
(49:51):
I'm not going to be a supermodel in a bathing
suit anymore. But I want to be healthy and I
want my brain to be healthy, and I want my
muscles to be strong. I want my bones not to
atrophy from osteoporosis. I want, you know, I want to
live long and be useful and productive and active and
be able to have fun. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
And also what I'm hearing from you, especially knowing your
family history, as I'm hearing you not wanting to be
somebody that's going to be difficult on your family. Right,
if you want to be able to take care of yourself,
you don't want to decay and have to burden your
husband or your kids or your best friend. Slash co hosts,
(50:34):
come and take care of you, right, Seriously, I'll volunteer
to do if you ever need it. But yeah, but
if you look at it in that sense, there's no
shame in that whatsoever. Yeah, that's a beautiful thing. I
want my body to last so that I can keep
serving the people I love for as long as I'm alive.
(50:55):
I'll put an amen to that without having to add
any qualifications to it. And if you hadn't allowed yourself
to start with I want to feel better in a
bathing suit, or even I want to look better in
a bathing suit, you would have ever gotten to that.
And it's very probable that there's even deeper levels that
haven't popped out of that yet that you're gonna find
(51:18):
even more so. So, Yeah, that's an exercise that I
recommend everybody try, specifically for those desires that feel frivolous
or something that you're embarrassed to admit, or that you
think God is going to be mad at you for
wanting and just remember our beautiful friend Teva. I will
(51:40):
close with my one of my I have so many
beautiful Filler on the Roof memories. It's actually the DVD
because this was back in DVDs. Not only that, I
had the Fiddler on the Roof vinyl record when I
was a kid, and it was one of the only
records that I would go downstairs because that's where our
record player was and I would put it on, but
(52:03):
we had the DVD. I don't think it was weird,
just I think it was DVD. And I woke up
with contractions for baby number two, and this was our
baby where the labor got really prolonged and difficult, but
we didn't know it at the time. I didn't want
to wake up my husband because I didn't know if
it was the real thing yet. So I sat up
watching Fiddler on the Roof just counting contractions. It is
(52:29):
a beautiful, beautiful show means a lot to be But
aside from those, another favorite memory of mine is we
got to take my niece to see a live stage
version of it when she was probably like just six
or seven, early elementary age. And there's a scene at
s Daughter number two who's falling in love with the
revolutionary that she's.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
Not supposed to fall in love with.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
And they do this like cute little jig dance, and
then they have the moment where their like their faces
are pretty close and they're staring into each other's eyes
and it's like, you know, they're about to kiss before
they get interrupted. So they're standing here pause their faces,
you know, like two inches away from each other, and
it's you know, there's probably at least a couple hundred
(53:10):
people in the audience. It was a decent size theater.
My niece loud enough for everybody, even the actors to hear, says,
uh oh. She could follow enough with the story to
understand that those two weren't supposed to they weren't supposed
to be together.
Speaker 1 (53:25):
That is so cute. At least you knew she was
paying attention. I know, very cute. So please go watch Fiddler.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
Don't bother with the second act of It's Too Sad
for You, or at least put on the soundtrack. I
hope I will not apologize if people get if I
were a rich fan in your head for the rest
of the day. It is fun and catchy, but so
much more profound than you think of when you hear
it just on its surface.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
I love that. We'd like to take just a quick
second to thank the team at life Audio for their
partnership with on the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio
dot com, you will find dozens of other faith centered
podcasts in their network. They've got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting,
and so much more. That's life audio dot com.
Life Audio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hello and welcome to the Praying Christian Women podcast. I
am Milana here with Jamie. How are you doing?
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Doing great? How are you good?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I am very excited. We are taking a short break
from Witches and doing a complete one hundred and eighty
degree turn. We're going to Broadway, which everybody knows if
you've listened for a little bit at least. I always
will go back to Broadway eventually. So let me tell
(00:35):
you the story behind why I wanted to cover this
topic slash song to day. So I was subbing for
middle school English for the last week of school and
it was an unexpected departure from their normal teacher, so
I didn't have sub plans, so I just kind of
(00:55):
had to come up with my own something or other.
So one day we talked about character motivation and we
talked about I want songs. Is that a phrase you're
familiar with in like musical theater or Disney lingo?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
No, I have never heard of that.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
It was a really fun lesson to do with the kids.
So basically, an I want song, especially if you think
about Disney movies, but almost every musical has what it's
called an I want song, and this is where the
character sings their motivation and usually comes toward the beginning,
and it tells you like their driving desire. So really
common ones like in The Lion King we have I
(01:33):
just can't wait to be King, or Moana has her
really beautiful song how Far I'll go about, how she
longs for the ocean entangled. She's got the song when
will my Life Begin? Because she just wants something to
happen in her life. Belle sings, I want so much
more than this provincial life. So every Disney movie and
just about every musical that has singing in it, the
(01:56):
main character gets what's called an I Want song. And
what we were doing in class is we were going
through different I Want songs first to just identify what
is driving this character. But what I realized as we
were going through it is that every single I Want song,
you can go deeper and deeper, and basically what we're
(02:17):
talking about is what you and I have talked about before,
and it's like the prayer behind the prayer behind the prayer,
and so love it. You might say, Okay, so just
off the cuff, tell me a Disney movie that has singing,
and I'll see if I can can do it on
the fly.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Okay, the princess and the frog, I haven't seen that one. Okay,
my drawing up link Disney Cinderella. Cinderella.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Okay, she's the one I think she sings one day
my Prince will come? Right?
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Does that sound r? That sounds really?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
It's one of the og basically all of the I
Want songs in early Disney all the princess is one
of their prints. So what she wants is her prince
to come. And so on the one hand, you can say, okay,
she won romance and true love, but then what you
have to ask is what is the deeper motivation? And
then what you're trying to get to is the universal
(03:09):
motivation that will ring true for every single human who
has ever lived, or at least like ninety eight percent
of humans who have ever lived. So not everybody wants
to marry a prince. So we could make it more
universal by saying, oh, she wants to marry her true love. Well,
not everybody is motivated by love and romance, right, Either
you're too young to care, or maybe you've moved beyond it,
(03:31):
or you've been burned by love. So then you ask, well,
what is an even deeper, driving universal motivation.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
It goes beyond romance.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Maybe it's just to be loved and understood, or maybe
like Cinderella specifically, it's this universal fantasy of being rescued
from a life of dullness, you know. And so what
we realize listening to these I Went songs is like
you can kind of list three or maybe at the
most full or five like universal motivations, and every song
(04:04):
is going to take you back to one of those.
And so what I loved is none of the kids,
like all the middle school kids were too young to
have ever watched Fiddler on the Roof, which is the
I Want song we're going to be talking about, stay another.
Like when you're talking about super famous I Want songs,
you go to Fiddler if I were a rich man
because it's just fun. I know some pop star redid it,
(04:26):
but I don't know who. Have you heard that version
or do you know what I'm talking about? It's been
redone in a bajillion different ways. Apparently I was watching
a cute documentary about Fiddler. Apparently Fiddler on the Roof
is super popular in Japan, Like this is a musical
that truly does have universal appeal and it's I want
(04:46):
song from Its main character is if I were a
rich man. And on the surface, he's just singing about
how he wants to be rich, and it doesn't sound
like much and it's kind of a silly song. So
on the surface you think of, oh, this is just
like a fun, little goofy song about somebody who wants
more money than he has. But what I'm gonna do
is I'm going to walk you through it, going kind
(05:08):
of like what we did with the middle schoolers, going
deeper and deeper and deeper, and also talk about how
this song can be a really powerful prayer template. And
I'm not at all being like facetious or ironic. I
feel like analyzing this song not to be overly dramatic,
is like the culmination of just about everything that you
(05:30):
and I have ever talked about in praying Christian. That's
how excited I got about it.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
This is exciting, this is good. So tell me.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
About your knowledge and experience with the musical.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Fitnler on the roof, So I know I saw it
live somewhere I don't know, when I was pretty young,
and it was one of the first like musicals I
remember seeing it's the Is it the one with Matchmaker? Yes? Okay,
so I remember the Matchmaker scene with the girl with
the best and it's Matchmaker and Matchmaker make me a
(06:02):
met And I remember him literally sitting on the roof
ay and character singing, ah, you know, And I remember
him singing if I were a wealthy man, if I
were a rich man, I remember it being like the
feeling I got when I saw I mean, I just
remember it was a really good thing. But if I
had to recall the actual like plot from beginning to end,
(06:25):
I wouldn't be able to tell you. So I know
pieces of it, and I know it's uh, is this
the little Girl? You know?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Oh my gosh, that song is so sad and beautiful. Yeah,
there's there's some really really good songs in there for
anybody who needs the warning and the reminder. Act two
is so sad like it's a feel good. Act one
is so feel good, and then it just goes so
downhill like it does not have the regular happy musical
(06:54):
beats past the first two thirds of Act one, but
really really important, the very basic premise is Tevia is
a Russian Jew and I'm gonna guess the early nineteen hundreds,
because there's still czars, so it must be early nineteen hundreds.
And he's got three daughters who are all getting close
(07:15):
to marriage age, and each of them chooses a husband,
and each of their husband choices gets progressively farther from
the tradition. So the first daughter, she just chooses a
poor tailor, and it's revolutionary because they chose each other
and didn't go through the matchmaker. The second one chooses
(07:39):
a like Bolshevik revolutionist and you know, an outsider from Ukraine,
so that's an even bigger deal. And then the last
one marries someone who's not even Jewish and ends up
like devastatingly getting disowned by her like the whole Like
I said, Act two, so sad, Act one ends on
a pogrom like it's it's really really not the happy
(08:02):
musical that you would think it is. If all you
knew is the song if I were a rich man
or a tradition at the beginning, Do you remember that one?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yes, So that's the basic.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Premise, and it's this man in his traditional ways coming
or trying to come to terms with the fact that
his daughters are all becoming progressively more removed from that.
Like if I were going to write a modern day
Fiddler on the Roof for an Evangelical Christian family, it
would be the first child like lives with their fiance
(08:35):
before they're married, and the parents have to deal with that,
and then the second child marries like somebody from a
pretty different denomination, right, like going from I don't want
any denominations.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
But you know what I mean, like Protestant, Catholic or
you know something like that, Yeah, within Protestanty, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Exactly, but like denominations that don't play well but still
fall under the cris believe in Jesus, right, and then
the last one, like Mary's an atheist and like disowns
the church. Like that's the progression that Tevia is going
through as he's watching his daughters at this specific point
in history. Right in the middle of actbun we get
(09:19):
this beautifully happy if I were a rich man song,
which again on the surface, sounds like a funny man
singing about wanting to be wealthy. But we're going to
take it and go like deeper and deeper and deeper
into it and see how this is actually the most
profound template for prayer that I have ever found outside
(09:41):
the Book of Psalms or outside the Lord's.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Prayer or anything in the New Testament.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
So it starts off with the very basic if I
were a rich man all day long, night, bitty bitty
bomb like. Basically, the scene is he's feeding all his
chicken and cows, and he's working really hard, and he's
just kind of singing to himself about being a rich friend.
But here's the other thing I love about Teba, the
(10:08):
main character. He is always talking to God in the
most conversational style that I have ever heard anybody.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Speak to the Lord.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
And yes, I know that Tebbe is not a real person,
but I from now on he's He's real in my heart,
so bear with me. He just talks to God. And
so he starts off the song and says, Dear God,
you made many many poor people. I realize, of course,
that it's no shame to be poor, but it's no
great honor either, So what would have been so terrible
(10:39):
if I had a small fortune? And throughout the entire
show we see him just having these kinds of conversations
with God. Something pops into his mind and he says
it to the Lord, and so a I just like
that aspect about Teba, about being more conversational in prayer
than most of us feel the free them to be.
(11:01):
But I want to go specifically into if I were
a Richmond, because most of us would have lots of
gut checks and qualms and icky feelings about our very
first prayer of the day being God, I really want
to have more money, and I am probably going to
(11:21):
say rightly so like that truly shouldn't be the driving
factor for any of us. Like there is enough in
the Book of Proverbs alone to lead us to understand
that money is not the most important thing in the world,
and the love of money can lead to all kinds
(11:43):
of terrible things. I love my grandma's quote about money.
I think I told you that she said it to
me just in the past couple of years. She says,
money isn't everything, but sometimes it sure can help. And
she was talking about it in the context of having
long term disability insurance because she wasn't sure if eventually
she was going to need it, but she knew that
(12:04):
if she did need it, that she would probably be
taken care of it. So it's like, you know, I know,
money isn't everything, but it can help sometimes. Yeah, so
is it a sin to pray for more money?
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Let's start there, my knee jerk reaction, having not thought
through all of the theological and you know whatever, I
would say No. Number one, if you're thinking it and
(12:39):
prayer is a conversation, I don't see why you wouldn't
say it in the presence of God. If you're thinking
to yourself, and you know Jesus says give us this
day our daily bread, which can translate to if you
don't have money for your daily bread, then why would
you not pray that God would provide that, even if
(13:00):
it's just a want and not a need. If it's
I sure could use a cushion so that I'm not
so anxious all the time and so I feel like
I could be more present for my family or whatever.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Well you mean like a financial cushion. I was fixturing
you wanted to buy yourself a little throw pillow so
that you didn't feel so anxious.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Filled with money. Yeah, what kind of throw pillow is this?
And where do I get one? Okay, this will be
another one of our praying Christian women trademarked and patented. Yes,
the pillow that anti anxiety pillow. No a cushion like
to a cushion of money, like more financial cushion, financial cushion,
(13:44):
just like not paycheck to paycheck that we have you know,
read whatever. So I still see no problem with bringing
that to God. And I think if you know, in
James it says you ask and you do not receive
because you ask with impure motive, with selfish motives that
you can spend, you know, frivolously. So I don't see
(14:05):
why we shouldn't at least bring our desires to God,
if for no other reason than to put it under
the authority of truth and say, God, this is how
I'm feeling, this is what I want, and maybe to
even just be like, if this isn't serving me well,
to be focused on this, then help change my heart.
(14:26):
I feel like there can be different motives at the
core of asking for more money, and so you have
to look at that too, like are you asking for
more money so that you can be more generous or
help someone or help your family to achieve something that
is important to them or to you. And then on
(14:46):
the other hand, you could be manipulative in your prayers
about money and say, you know, like oh well, Dave
Ramsey says that I'm going to, you know, get money.
Like his whole stick is you get so you can get.
And I think that's great. But I could see myself
convincing myself that it's fine to amass lots of resources
(15:10):
and just so I can give and then end up giving,
you know, maybe a lot, but still saving and getting.
And I think it's where you where do you put
your security? Is your security coming from that money? Or
you know, you could look at give us this day
or daily bread as give us just what we need
right now, so that we don't get too dependent on
(15:30):
money for security, and we remember from whom our help comes.
So I basically just threw a bunch of spaghetti at
the wall, and you guys can decide.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
We'd love to all of your spaghetti. It was delicious, yeall.
So when Tavia says, even at the beginning, I realize
it's no shame to be poor, but it's no great
honor either, it reminds you of what Paul says. He says,
I have learned the secret of being content in any
in every situation, whether well fed or hungry. So it's
no great sin to be poor. It's no great shame
(16:01):
to be poor, it's no great sin to be rich.
It's no great shame to be rich. It is what
it is. And so hey, I love Tavia's reminder that
like money is money, Like it doesn't have to be
more loaded than that, right, But we attach.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Oh, I'm like, what did I pun? Yes, but we
attach so much to it.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
And I think something of that is because we get
mixed messages in the Christian community. We get messages of
you can only have a certain amount of money because
it says give us to stay our daily bread. It
doesn't say give us a stay our retirement bread. But
we also get we are generous so that God will
be generous to us. And then we also get it's
more virtuous to be poor because Jesus was poor. Like,
(16:45):
we get a lot of mixed messages, and then all
of that gets tied up in the American dream and
in you know, like there is so much corporateness that
is part of Western churches today and you can't wead
that out. Just it is, you know, in the same
way to like you go to church and you breathe
oxygen because oxygen is in the Air's like you go
(17:06):
to church and you breathe corporate capitalistic ideas, because that's
the society that at least you and I are in,
and a lot of our listeners are in.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Like, so it is, it's just there.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
And so I think that's one of the takeaways we
get from Tevia, Like he's praying about money because money
is on his mind and that's literally all that it
has to be. So I loved what you said, is like,
is it wrong for money to be the primary thing
you want in life? It probably is, but it's probably
just as bad, and it's definitely no better to have
(17:43):
money be your primary motivation and then go to God
and pretend like it's not. And So what is so
refreshing and beautiful about Tavia in the entire musical, but
especially in the song, is like there's no pretense, right,
he wants money, and so he's not ashamed to come
to God and say I want money. And let's be
(18:04):
honest here, Like Tavia is not wrong to want more
than he has, Like it is he is a poor
dairy farmer with a crippled horse and can't make his
deliveries and he's got five daughters to feed and find
dowries for like he does not He literally does not
have as much as he needs to have.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
What he needs.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Right, I know that was redundant, and I kind of
did that deliberately. And here's something I think, especially for
women and moms, we have such an innate drive to
make sure that our families are provided for. Yeah, like
that is a core need of ours to make sure
that our families feel safe and secure. But we're also
(18:48):
told from a lot of areas that it's wrong to
pray for material things or it's wrong to put your
trust in material things. And yes, it is wrong to
trust in your riches over God, but it's not wrong
to once to know that your family's not going to
be hungry next week. It's not wrong to want to
(19:09):
know that you can afford to get your child's shoes
for the school year. And so I want to talk
specifically to the mom or the grandma or whoever's listening,
who who is so caught up in that fear that
you are shaming yourself for not having what you need
(19:29):
and then feeling bad that you're praying about not having
the things that you need. As women, we need to
know that our loved ones are taken care of. That
doesn't mean that we need every single thing in the world.
But if your child needs shoes for school and you
do not know where money for their shoes for school
is going to come from, it is not wrong for
(19:50):
you to feel that in the core of your good
If you look in the fridge and you are concerned
because you just don't have enough nutritious stuff to give
yourself an your family, you are not being sinful for
worrying about that. Or if you're looking at your bank
account and you don't know how things are going to
get taken care of, it is not wrong for you
to recognize that you are in hard financial times and
(20:14):
this is a hard economy, and so I hope that
this is sinking in. Like as women, this is not
something to be ashamed of. This is something to celebrate
because we were designed to make sure that our loved
ones are provided for and so when that's not happening,
we are going to feel that unease. And what I
(20:35):
love about Tedbia going back to if I were a
rich man, he has no shame coming to God saying God,
I want a small fortune. Okay, he's starting with where
he is.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I'm not going to say that.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Everyone, now drop to your knees and pray these magic words,
and God's going to give you a small fortune, or
you know, let's go ahead and make it a big fortune.
We're not after that. What we're after is be one
hundred percent honest and transparent with God with exactly where
you are. And if that means you say, God, I'm
terrified that we're not gonna be housed next year, you
(21:09):
start there. If it's God, I'm really sad that I
couldn't go on this luxury vacation that I go on
every year, but I'm also feeling guilty for feeling bad
about it.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
You start there.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
If it's I'm really, really really really really want to
get this promotion because I've worked super hard for it
and I really want this addition to my paycheck.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
You start there.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
But none of us are going to end where we
start in our prayer, and I think that's another message.
So let's go to VERSU. He starts with, I want
to be a rich man. I don't want to work
hard all day long.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
I'm in a bitty bitty bomb.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Okay, that's his surface, that's just he's starting with exactly
where he is. He says, I'd build a big, tall
house with rooms by the dozen, right in the middle
of the town, a fine tin roof with real wooden floors.
Below there would be one long staircase just going up
and one even longer coming down. More leading nowhere just
for show. Okay, on the surface, we see a man
(22:05):
with very frivolous wants and desires. And so now I'm
going to have you do what I did with the
middle schoolers, not to be condescending to you, but just
because it was a really cool exercise. How far can
you take this? Because not all of us want a
house with one staircase going up and one going down
and one just for show. So how how many steps
(22:27):
can we get until we hit on a universal desire
that ninety percent or more of us are going to
relate to.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
So I think he wants to be able to have
nice things, And to me, the just for show makes
me think that he wants to have something he can
take pride in and something that he can just be
proud of.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yeah, and sometimes there is a reason for beauty. It
took me a long time to realize, but that's what
having houseplants has taught me, Because I grew up so
stoic that anything that didn't have a very precise function
was a waste of time and money and energy. And
so I literally got into houseplants when I learned that
(23:17):
they cleaned the air. That gave me permission to have
them because they were serving a purpose. Now I've learned
to appreciate them because they are beautiful additions to my
space and learning to be okay with that. It's kind
of like does our sanctuary and I'm guilty of this.
We have this little spot in our church's sanctuary where
(23:39):
we can hang like a little banner, and there were
some people in the church who take a lot of
joy out of changing that banner from season to season,
or having it matched the fake flowers on the centerpiece
or things like that. Have I in the past rolled
my eyes a little bit about it?
Speaker 1 (23:57):
M hm.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Do I, at least on a lodge level, recognize that
there is a place for something to be beautiful just
because it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Absolutely? Yeah. Look at Solomon's Temple and the care and
the you know, the the artisans, everything that went into
that to just make it beautiful for the glory of God,
just for beauty's sake, and I'm that way. I was
always very much like, I'll put time into a vegetable garden,
(24:26):
but I don't want flowers, Like why would I want flowers?
And you know, over the years, I've started to understand more.
I'm kind of that way about fashion. I don't personally
have many fashionable clothes or any but I can appreciate
the artistic expression of fashion on a cerebral level where
(24:48):
I can see, you know what, that's somebody's expression of
beauty and why not like that's okay? And I used
to be a little stoic about that, like a T
shirt and gene like, mom, why do I have to
even like brush my hair? And now my daughter, who
I've got a hound to brush her hair, I'm like
totally getting it back, but it's hilarious. Same with hair
(25:11):
styles and extensive makeup, Like I don't do either of
that really, and you know, but I can totally appreciate
the value in beautiful things.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
So yes, this was driven home to me when we
did our Proverbs thirty one study. That was honestly, I
think my biggest or one of my biggest takeaways. We
did a whole mini series on how does the proverb
thirty one woman pray. And I realized how much baggage
I carry about things that are seen as frivolous, you know,
(25:43):
and how how silly it is to like who cares
if someone chooses to put lipstick on before church or not?
Like that's that's her and God. And yeah, some people
are doing it for right reasons. Some people are doing
it from habits. Some people are abstaining for por like
who cares? It's like it's like what color socks am
I going to wear? It literally does not have to
(26:05):
have any bearing on your life, but if it does,
then whatever you do, do it for the glory of good.
And I think that again, as women, just like we
were designed to protect our homes, were designed to bring
a sense of peace and common beauty to our homes.
And some of us do that in one way, some
of us do it in another way. And I think
(26:26):
a lot of women, especially in the church, get shamed
for wanting to have a beautiful space. I remember being
part of a church that had just built its first building,
and in a way they did it well, but in
a way they also poo pooed it, like they had
a decorating committee and they recognized, like they say that
(26:49):
we want you ladies to make our church beautiful.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
But there was also a little.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Bit of kind of like jostling and teasing and like
you do the pretty you do the pretty work, and
we'll get the roof on, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (27:06):
There was a little bit of that.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Too, And why can't we have both? Like Teva wants
a big tall house with a real tin roof, fanty
ones a frivolous staircase for no reason whatsoever. But here's
what I'm also saying about Tevia. He still is being
a little frivolous here. But we can go and we
can ask ourselves. Okay, but what does he really really want?
(27:28):
Because I think sometimes with prayer, we don't even know
the prayer behind the prayer till we start pray. And
Teva is just scratching the surface still. But could you
read the next part about the yard with chicks and turkeys.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yeah, which rings hits home for you right with your knee. Chickens.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
We just got some meat birds.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
It's been really fun.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
We haven't had chickens in like five to eight years.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
It's a long time into it. I'd fill my yard
with chicks and turkeys and geese and ducks for the
town to see in here squawking just as as they can,
and each loud of the ghee be it gao, be
it ge ga.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
He makes really weird noises.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Okay, I'm not going to do that for you guys.
Not doing it would land like a trumpet on the ear,
as if to say, here lives a wealthy man. Ah.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
All right, So let's dissect this one. So he wants
lots of animals, he wants his farm to be full.
We have, on the one hand, the food security and
living in Alaska, living in rural Alaska, living around people
who have always lived a subsistence lifestyle. I understand what
(28:41):
food security means more than I ever did, back when
you just drove yourself to a store and got your groceries.
Food security is just knowing that if you don't get
to town for three weeks for this side or the
other reason, you're still going to have enough to eat.
And so on the one hand, there's the only more
(29:01):
universal desire is probably for water and I guess oxygen
than food, you know. So he's hitting on that, But
he's also hitting on another motivation that most of us
would shy away from admitting to ourselves, or to each other,
or to God. He says he wants all of the
(29:22):
squawkings to land like a trumpet on the ear, as
if to say, here lives a wealthy man. He does
want the sign of wealth. So in our culture, for
a lot of people, that's the car, or that's the
fancy per So those are the first thing that come
to my mind. Can you think of any others?
Speaker 1 (29:40):
I think the cars and purses are the biggest ones.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
It used to be watches, and I think in certain
circles of I but you know, we all get our
we all get our time from our phones.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, watches, you know, gadgets, Yeah, the newest smartphone, although
everyone kind of has sort of the same phones. Like
I don't feel like, I mean know, there's a spectrum,
but yeah, I think yeah probably and maybe just like
I know in our neighborhood, a lot of people are
meticulous about their yards. And that doesn't mean you're wealthy,
(30:13):
but it's like it's another pride thing. Yeah, it's taking
care a sign of wealth, but it's like it's like
a pride thing. And I see that with the you know,
one more staircase leading nowhere just for show, and you know,
those ideas of just wanting it to be more than
just comfort for his family, but wanting other people to know.
So that to me says I want to be respected, Like, yes,
(30:36):
I want, And as we see later it's not necessarily
like respected for how hard Well maybe it is. He's
later on he talks about, you know, not having to work,
but like maybe he wants people to say all of
his hard work and maybe he wants to know even
for himself, like all of this hard work has gone
for something. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Yeah, And that's why we've said for like, there needs
to be a word for pride, and there needs to
be a word for pride, and one of them needs
to be the thing that we're very quick to run
away from, and the other should be something that we
can either accept and embrace or at the very least
be ambivalent about.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Like I'm proud of my children.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
I'm not worried that God's going to smite me for
being proud of my kids, and I hope you aren't either.
So there are certain scenarios where we understand that pride
is supposed to be good, you know, like if you
have a three year old who's just learned how to
do something, you know, tricky. Maybe they've just learned how
to write the first letter of their name or something like.
(31:36):
You're supposed to feel proud of them, and you're supposed
to help them to feel proud of themselves. But then
somehow it gets so complicated, just like money, it gets
so into well, don't pride is a sin? Well, yes,
there is a pride that is a sin, and then
there is a pride that is actually a really good
thing to have in yourself, you know, like taking pride
in your lawn. That could be a sin, That could
(31:58):
be a really wise way to steward what God has
given you. And it all comes down to what's in
your heart. But yeah, so I think here we have
to have. He definitely is is not too stoic sainthood
on our litmus test of how pure are his motivations,
But he is so honest and he's touching a little.
(32:20):
I think he's getting deeper at the very surface. He
just didn't want to have to work as hard as
he does. The next level is he wants to be
respected by people. And I think we can call that
a universal desire that.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
At its core is not wrong. It is not wrong
to wants to be respected.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Now, it's wrong to want to be like worshiped or
envied or things like that, but it's not wrong to
want your dignity as a human being to be acknowledged
in the same way that you acknowledge the dignity.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Of other human beings.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Right, there's just sort of a universal human respect that
I believe is innate that if we are not receiving it,
we do feel a lac and tevia. Being in a
Jewish community where there is persecution and being one of
the poorest members of that community, he isn't getting and
(33:16):
he's a very henpecked husband. He's not getting the respect
that universally a human deserves. His first way of knowing
how to express that is saying, I want a great, big,
long staircase going up right, just like you know the
middle aged man their first I need the sports car. Okay,
(33:39):
but what's deeper than that, and then what's deeper than that?
And then what's deeper than that is I want the
respect that I am owed just because of the fact
that I am a human being who is creating in
God's image, and you can't fault somebody for knowing that
because I am a human being and because I'm a
child of God, I deserve the baseline level.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Of respect that every human deserves.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Then we go down to he talks about his wife.
He says, I see my wife, my goldie, looking like
a rich man's wife with a proper double chin. And
I love this.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
I love that line.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
That is so funny. Supervising meals to her heart's delight.
I see you're putting on airs and strutting like a peacock.
Oh what a happy mood she's in, screaming at the
servants day and night. Okay, so if you want to
put on your super super judgy Christian hat, tell me
everything that's wrong with Tevy's motivations from this. From this verse,
(34:49):
he is.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Praying for excess and gluttony to the point that she's
you know, has more weight than she needs, which to
him symbolize is prosperity, and supervising meals putting on airs. Again,
the word pride comes to mind. Strutting like a peacock,
and then you know, being happy herself and yet screaming
(35:14):
at the servants and making them feel small.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Not very christ like that part especially. I don't like
that last light. Yeah, but we can if we want
to be very gracious towards Tevia. I mean, hey, we're
starting with you know what, Teva, you are where you are,
so go ahead and tell God where you are. And
I don't censor it. So that's good enough. But other
than the screaming at the servants, which we don't want
(35:40):
to get behind, I think there is a sense kind
of like what we talked about with mothers wanting to
know that your family's taken care of. There is a
sense of just wanting to know that your loved ones
are provided for. And so if we want to go
to his deeper motivation and maybe try to hit on
the universal motivations, it's I don't want my loved ones
(36:01):
to worry, you know, Like I don't know how well
you remember Goldie the musical, but she's a nag and
she's a worry wart and she's always hounding him and
he loves her to death and it's actually like it's
really really beautiful and sweet and cute, and he wants
her to be happy. And in his mind, what's going
(36:23):
to make Goldie happy is being fat and having a
lot of servants to yell at. Now, is that truly
what's gonna make Goldie happy? No, but that is just
his most uncensored first knee jerk reaction to this universal
motivation of I want the woman that I love more
(36:43):
than anything in the world to be happy. So again,
just like all the other verses, we are getting the
uncensored tuba. And then we can just shave a sight,
a tiny, tiny bit and hit the layer that has
no sinfulness, no sense elfishness to whatsoever. And that is
just this universal God given desire to see your loved
(37:07):
ones happily provided for. Like even John in one of
his epistles, he says, I have no greater joy than
that my children are walking in the truth. Like, what
is going to make you and me more happy as
we get older. It's just knowing that our kids are
are fine and well, Like if I know that. Okay,
(37:28):
So here's another thing. I was asking myself, you know
how we were talking about I want songs.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
I was going through my entire Broadway repertoire, and I
was being like, out of all these beautiful because they're
usually very belty, they're usually like Dawn from the gut.
I was trying to see what is my life's I
want song? And what I realized was it's the song
I might get teary like, it's a song that Goldie
sings to her daughter's or Sabbath prayer. She just wants
(37:57):
them happy, Yeah, and she just wants them to be
well taken care of, and she just wants them to
be Okay, that is an like, that's not a selfish
desire to have for your loved ones.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
No, okay, let's go to the next verse.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Can you read it about the most important men in town?
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yes? Before we do that, can I say one more
thing about this last part. I feel like Tevia is
like he probably sees her hard work and this idea
of her yelling at servants. I picture him picturing her
yelling at him, and he still loves her. He knows
that she loves him. He's just her way, and so
I feel like maybe it's like her yelling at the
(38:40):
servants and kind of just her personality. But she has
servants to yell to, so she can rest, she can
look beautiful, she can feel good about herself. She can
you know, take a load off and just enjoy life.
For a little bit. I think that's kind of the
core of that desire there, instead of it being you know,
exactly whipping the servants. But anyway, okay, so we are next.
(39:03):
The most important men in town would come to fawn
on me. They would ask me to advise them, like
a solemnon the wise, if you please, rebteva, pardon me
rebteva posing problems that would cross a rabbi's eyes.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
So we're getting even deeper to the respect. He's gone
from provision to respect. And I'm sure if we were
sociologists we could even like transpose these onto that like
mass love, hierarchy or whatever it's called. You know what
I mean, Like, once your basic needs for food and
(39:38):
water and shelter are taken care of, you want that respect,
You want that belonging. Now, yes, if I want to
put on my really really judgie Christian hat, I'm going
to look at him and wag my finger at him
for not knowing that he is loved by God no
(39:58):
matter what other people think of him. But when I
put on my gracious hat and Teba, you're in every
man hat, I say, yeah, we all want respect. And
then you think about his history being a Jew in
a region that gets regular programs, being one of the
(40:19):
poorest in your town, having a wife who nags you incessantly,
and you can see this craving for respect is not selfish.
And I think this is the first verse where I
don't even think we have to scratch off a layer
to get to the pure, nonsinful, uncensored Teba motivation. Some
(40:44):
people might disagree a little bit. Some people are going
to say, well, you should be so secure in who
you are in Christ that you don't need the esteem
of others. But honestly, I think that could be a
little prideful. It's almost like I don't need what every
single human actually does need, which is community. Like if
you don't like the word respect, if that feels too
close to pride, just community and belonging. Please don't be
(41:07):
so arrogant to think that you don't need that.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Yeah, And I mean you could maybe it's a stretch,
but you could take it a layer deeper and say,
maybe he wants to contribute in a way that goes
beyond just his provision. Like I wan't agree. Wise, I
want to be able to advise people and make a
difference on a community level. And not just you know,
(41:30):
pluging a way to just put food on the table. Exactly.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
He has the heart of a scholar living the life
of a really hard working farmer who never gets a
day off. And that takes us to the very last verse,
which is where we get his complete uncensored like, this
is the true Tavia. If I were rich, I'd have
the time that I lack to sit in the synagogue
and pray and maybe have a seat by the eastern wall.
(41:56):
I discuss holy books with the learned men several hours
every day, and that would be the sweetest thing of all.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Wow, that is cool.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
And so what I love is most of us would
force ourselves to start our prayer with that pure motivation.
We would say, God, please give me money so I
can be generous. We wouldn't start with I really want
money so my wife can be fat and so I
can have a frivolous staircase. But Teeda starts exactly where
(42:29):
he is, and with each verse he peels back a
layer and becomes reveals more of his actual motivation until
you get to something that is so pure and so beautiful.
That's the real Like this is the prayer behind the
prayer he wants money so that he has time to
(42:50):
pray and study the Bible, and he says that would
be the sweetest gift of all. But to get to
that part of his prayer, he started with wanting to
not have to work hard, And he started with wanting
a wife who's free to yell at his servants, and
to have a bunch of chickens who are so loud
that they're squawking, so that the whole town knows that
he's rich, you know, And so I love the progression.
(43:14):
It shows how if you start censored, you're never going
to get.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
As real with the Lord as Tevo Gott.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
If you start with, Dear God, please help me to
have more money so that I can be more generous,
there's nowhere to go from there. If you start with God,
I am so stressed out about money right now. I
just need two weeks where I don't have to worry
about bills. I just need, like I need a job
where I know that if my kid got sick, I
could take a few days off and not have to
(43:45):
not be able to make my utilities. Like, you start
where you are, and then you can get to like
the true center. But if you try to censor right
from the beginning, You're never going to get there.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
And also you miss out on true relationship. It's kind
of like the difference between pouring your heart out to
your best friend over coffee and standing at a Miss
America pageant saying your deepest desire is for world peace.
You know, like you're losing a lot of relationship. So
(44:18):
what stands out to you from this the most? The
last segment that's really sometimes I think, like when I'm
not even necessarily financially, but like in a place where
i feel like I'm so tied up with practicalities or
(44:39):
so worried about a certain thing that I'm not able to,
I don't have the energy to pray. I don't have
that space. I think about that sometimes when I'm not
in those situations and I do have that time in
that space, I feel very privileged because I think there
are some people who don't have the time and space
(45:02):
to pray right now, and to not that you can't
pray on the fly and incorporate it into parts but meditation.
He's talking about sitting in the synagogue and praying. He's
talking about sitting by the Eastern wall. Is that the
whaling wall or I guess the Eastern So that's what
(45:24):
I was wondering. I don't know, but basically the two
to sit in God's presence and just even to contemplate.
I mean, I just I think a lot of times
about how philosophy feels like it's dying because people are
so busy with doing and just even the time, you know,
(45:46):
to sit and think and be and listen. So that's
that's that. I didn't read ahead. So that took me
by surprise. Yeah, I was taking section at time, and yeah,
so that really took me by surprise. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Yeah, So I would say some of the takeaways be
as candid with God, Like, be painfully candid with God,
and He already knows where you're at anyway, So don't
try to put on a better face. Don't be the
person on the first day trying to be ten times
more impressive than you are, Like, be genuinely who you
are because God already knows. And then trust that the
(46:26):
more you pray through an issue, the more you're going. Like,
don't be afraid of praying superficially, because God can take
what starts as a superficial prayer and reveal some of
the deepest desires of your heart. So I would say
even listener homework aside from everyone going out and watching
at least the first act I've fen lare on the roof. Yeah,
(46:48):
this would be like, take a desire you have, even like,
tell me if you want to. I'll tell you the assignment.
Then you tell me if you want to do it
on the air. Candidly, take a desire that you feel
is almost frivolous, like maybe something you'd be a teeny
tiny bit embarrassed to admit to, you know, the person
werrying that Judgie Christian hat. And then ask yourself, what's
(47:10):
my desire behind that desire or my prayer behind the prayer,
and see if you can strip it away to something
that is just as genuine and beautiful as at last
verse if I were a rich man.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
Okay, I'll be very candid. Yes, we went camping this
weekend with some friends and everyone was wearing bathing suits
and I was wearing a bathing suit and I had
like a cover thing that was pretty modest that covered
is you know more, And I was thinking, I don't
like I just didn't feel comfortable in a bathing suit
(47:44):
because I've put on extra pounds and I am so yeah,
So my thought was I want to look good in
a bathing suit?
Speaker 2 (47:54):
And did you feel guilty for having that thought? Like
did you shame yourself for thinking that? Kind of because
I a lot of women would sure, because.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
The first thing that comes to mind is, well, who's
it for? You know? Is it for you know, you
try and impress other people or you know? But and
also because you know, I'm not morbidly obese or anything,
but everything is shifted and I just and the core
I would say, like number one, some of it is superficial.
(48:25):
Some of it is just being superficial, but very superficial.
Let's start there. Superficial. I want to look good because
I want to. I guess I want when other people
look at me, I want them to think that I'm healthy,
that I'm not healthy, care of yourself, making care of myself,
thank you, because healthy isn't the word that that I
(48:47):
take care of myself. And maybe I equate being in
shape with people perceiving that I'm motivated or like.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Oh it's that idea of product activity productive. Yes, yeah, yeah,
that is somehow like morally superior.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Yeah yeah, and then you know, a layer below that is, yes,
I want to be healthy. I know what it feels
like to be in the habit of working out, to
be in you know, to basically be in a place
where I feel strong and where I look strong, and
I miss that. I look back a little bit and think, yeah,
(49:29):
I want to look strong. I want to feel strong
because I had more energy, because I was able to
do more things without getting out of breath or without
you know, needing help to do it. So and then
and then there is the health thing too, That's that's
part of it. But I will say, you know, I
definitely do I look at fitness now differently. I know
(49:51):
I'm not going to be a supermodel in a bathing
suit anymore. But I want to be healthy and I
want my brain to be healthy, and I want my
muscles to be strong. I want my bones not to
atrophy from osteoporosis. I want, you know, I want to
live long and be useful and productive and active and
be able to have fun. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
And also what I'm hearing from you, especially knowing your
family history, as I'm hearing you not wanting to be
somebody that's going to be difficult on your family. Right,
if you want to be able to take care of yourself,
you don't want to decay and have to burden your
husband or your kids or your best friend. Slash co hosts,
(50:34):
come and take care of you, right, Seriously, I'll volunteer
to do if you ever need it. But yeah, but
if you look at it in that sense, there's no
shame in that whatsoever. Yeah, that's a beautiful thing. I
want my body to last so that I can keep
serving the people I love for as long as I'm alive.
(50:55):
I'll put an amen to that without having to add
any qualifications to it. And if you hadn't allowed yourself
to start with I want to feel better in a
bathing suit, or even I want to look better in
a bathing suit, you would have ever gotten to that.
And it's very probable that there's even deeper levels that
haven't popped out of that yet that you're gonna find
(51:18):
even more so. So, Yeah, that's an exercise that I
recommend everybody try, specifically for those desires that feel frivolous
or something that you're embarrassed to admit, or that you
think God is going to be mad at you for
wanting and just remember our beautiful friend Teva. I will
(51:40):
close with my one of my I have so many
beautiful Filler on the Roof memories. It's actually the DVD
because this was back in DVDs. Not only that, I
had the Fiddler on the Roof vinyl record when I
was a kid, and it was one of the only
records that I would go downstairs because that's where our
record player was and I would put it on, but
(52:03):
we had the DVD. I don't think it was weird,
just I think it was DVD. And I woke up
with contractions for baby number two, and this was our
baby where the labor got really prolonged and difficult, but
we didn't know it at the time. I didn't want
to wake up my husband because I didn't know if
it was the real thing yet. So I sat up
watching Fiddler on the Roof just counting contractions. It is
(52:29):
a beautiful, beautiful show means a lot to be But
aside from those, another favorite memory of mine is we
got to take my niece to see a live stage
version of it when she was probably like just six
or seven, early elementary age. And there's a scene at
s Daughter number two who's falling in love with the
revolutionary that she's.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
Not supposed to fall in love with.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
And they do this like cute little jig dance, and
then they have the moment where their like their faces
are pretty close and they're staring into each other's eyes
and it's like, you know, they're about to kiss before
they get interrupted. So they're standing here pause their faces,
you know, like two inches away from each other, and
it's you know, there's probably at least a couple hundred
(53:10):
people in the audience. It was a decent size theater.
My niece loud enough for everybody, even the actors to hear, says,
uh oh. She could follow enough with the story to
understand that those two weren't supposed to they weren't supposed
to be together.
Speaker 1 (53:25):
That is so cute. At least you knew she was
paying attention. I know, very cute. So please go watch Fiddler.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
Don't bother with the second act of It's Too Sad
for You, or at least put on the soundtrack. I
hope I will not apologize if people get if I
were a rich fan in your head for the rest
of the day. It is fun and catchy, but so
much more profound than you think of when you hear
it just on its surface.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
I love that. We'd like to take just a quick
second to thank the team at life Audio for their
partnership with on the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio
dot com, you will find dozens of other faith centered
podcasts in their network. They've got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting,
and so much more. That's life audio dot com.
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