August 27, 2026 • 34 mins
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Have you ever wondered if that "gut feeling" is your intuition speaking, or if it's actually the Holy Spirit?
This week, Alana and Jaime dive into an honest and thought-provoking conversation on how to tell the difference between human intuition and Holy Spirit discernment—and why confusing the two can actually be dangerous.
In this episode, Alana and Jaime tackle the all-too-common Christian habit of "over-spiritualizing" our personal choices. They unpack the spiritual danger of using the phrase "God told me" to justify our own desires, make excuses for being flaky, or shut down disagreements. They explain why making God the "fall guy" for our decisions or personality quirks can border on taking His name in vain, and why it's okay to just want things without putting a divine stamp on them!
Jaime also shares the personal story of her family's move to Alaska, revealing how she used scripture to seek confirmation when she wasn't sure if the decision was driven by a personal desire or a divine calling. Together, they explore the beautiful truth that intuition is a God-given gift designed to protect and guide us, and why honoring your gut instincts (like sensing an unsafe situation) doesn't have to conflict with your faith.
Come listen and you’ll walk away with a fresh perspective on the incredible freedom we have in Christ, a reminder of God's joyful and loving character, and practical wisdom on how to seek clarity when you aren't sure whose voice you're hearing.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Life Audio.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hello, welcome to the Praying Christian Woman podcast. I am
Alana here with Jamie. How's it going?
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Going great. How about you?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I'm good. Happy back-to-school season to all the parents out
there and people getting kids or grandkids or neighbor kids
or foster kids or whoever you're getting off to school.
Happy back-to-school season to all the teachers and school workers
and How's the school year started for your family?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
It's been good. It's been a lot of moving parts,
but the kids are excited about their schools and their classes.
So I'm excited for the school year. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Well, and how about one more special blessing to families
who have kids start in college or away from home
for the first time too, or new empty nesters or
partial empty nesters, whatever season you're in. And happy fall,
I guess, or spring if you're in the lower hemisphere.
(01:04):
And I'm really excited for today's topic. It is a
question that I have been mulling over and finally feel
like I'm at the point where like, I don't know
if you're this way. I need time to like stew
over certain questions before I would be able to like
talk through them. And so like if I said, hey, Jamie,
(01:26):
give me your thoughts about this and you've never thought
about it before. It might be a little hard, but.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I don't know. I don't like getting caught off guard.
And also, I have an input CliftonStrength, so I like
to research and kind of make sure that my opinion
is based on something solid. We're kind of jumping into
this one, so I apologize in advance if I say
anything off the cuff and people are like, that is
(01:51):
not biblically accurate.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Well, and that's funny because Your input, I think, works
in the same way that my intellection does. So Jamie
and I are using CliftonStrengths languages. It's sort of like
a personality test, but a little more in-depth and tailored
more toward, like, I think it was designed for business people.
But for me, the intellection side is I need to
(02:15):
think about something before... Being able to really discuss.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, like ruminate on it and kind of let it
rattle around in your mind a little bit.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So while you're doing the research, I'm just doing the pacing.
I love that. And then we put our two brains together.
So I've had plenty of time to intellect on this.
You have had zero time to input on this. So
the question though is, A, how do we know if
it is our intuition speaking to us or the Holy Spirit?
(02:49):
And what I want to focus on even more importantly
is B, the dangers of assigning Holy Spirit discernment with
all capital letters to what is the gift of discernment.
Because if we had a Venn diagram, there would be
some things that would be just intuition, some things that
(03:10):
would be just Holy Spirit discernment, and some things in
the middle. And I think that to live wise lives...
We need to know where the promptings and desires and
thoughts are coming from and which we can pinpoint. We're
never going to get 100% correct, and that's okay, too.
(03:32):
That's part of humility, in my opinion. But I am
very excited to talk through this. Do you have a
verse of the day for us?
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I do. This is John 10, verse 27, and I'm
going to read it from the New American Standard Bible.
because I'm using the lexicon and I just want to
comment on a few of the actual translations from Strong's,
just of the Greek that it comes from. So it's,
my sheep hear my voice and I know them and
they follow me. And I would read this and think,
(04:02):
my sheep hear my voice. You know, sheep are what
Christians are referred to, followers of Christ. They follow the
shepherd who is Jesus. So those of us who are Christians,
who are believers, we hear his voice. and He knows us,
and we follow Him. And so I think what we're
talking about today is recognizing His voice. And this, when
(04:23):
I looked at the lexicon, is not exactly that. The word,
it's to hear or listen, and that means listen to Him.
It doesn't necessarily mean discern. And so we're still a
little stuck, even with this verse, because yes, I want
to listen to Jesus. And we know in scripture, those
(04:45):
are his words. We know that for sure in the Bible.
But what we're talking about is a little bit different
from that. And so maybe I should have chosen a
different verse, but it's too late.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
No, I think that what you just verbally went through
is the question we're talking about. How do we know
that difference between recognizing, hearing, listening? So I want to
start with some definitions like we often do. I also
want to start with some extremes because I think if
we can picture the extremes, that helps us to hone
(05:20):
in on what we're really talking about. So when I
talk about over-spiritualizing our intuition, the extreme version of that,
and I bet we have all either encountered people like
this in real life or like in our caricatured imagination. it's, oh, Jamie,
(05:45):
I really feel like God is not pleased when you
wear red.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Like, it's very clear that God doesn't care that you
happen to be wearing a bright red shirt today, which
looks lovely on you, by the way.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
And it's very clear that I.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Am forcing my opinion on you through God's voice, which
is so heretical. It is so dangerous. I'm going to
go so far as to call this an example of
using the Lord's name in vain. When I take my
(06:24):
opinion and I tell you that God is saying it,
then I have just, as I see it, used the
Lord's name in vain. I have invoked God for me.
extremely selfish purposes. So that was the real extreme. But
(06:44):
it can get trickier. It can get into, well, where
does God want us to go on a mission trip? Oh,
God must really want us to go to Hawaii. And
I say that kind of as a joke, but Hawaii
could use missionaries just like everywhere else in the world.
But how do I know if my call to Hawaii
(07:05):
is Is my body lacking vitamin D because I live
in Alaska? You know, but if I say God's calling
me to Hawaii, A, I sound really, really special because
I can hear God. B, nobody can argue with that.
It's like, oh, oh, don't take it up with me.
Take it up with God, you know, and who's going
(07:28):
to go against God? And then it also brings sin
into it. It means that if I don't go to Hawaii,
I am sinning against the Lord. So those are examples
of how we might use personal opinion and put that
under the label of Holy Spirit discernment. And then I
(07:51):
think we do it with our intuition. And I want
to say this. It's not bad to have opinions. It's
not bad. to hope that at some point God tells
Jamie's family to move and become our next-door neighbors. Like,
it's not bad to have desires. What is bad is
when I come to you and say, God has told
me that you need to uproot your family and come
(08:14):
be our next-door neighbors. Because you can't argue with that.
And then somebody's sinning. If you don't do it, you're sinning.
And It can be very coercive. So some churches and
high control groups will use it, but it can come
across in even the most well-intentioned well-meaning. I'm going to
(08:36):
give you a caricature that again, I feel like a
lot of people have encountered or can imagine of a
person who is so flaky, but it's all God's fault.
And so I was like, oh, Sorry I made you
wait for an hour. God and I were having a conversation. Okay.
(08:58):
What do you say to that? You can't say anything
to that.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
No. I have a friend who knew someone that was
like that. And she kind of told me about it
in a like almost attitude of admiration for this person.
She said, this person is never on time. They are
always late for stuff. but they just are always following God.
(09:23):
And so it's like, oh, exactly. I think the example
that was given to me was, I was late because
the Lord told me to stop and have a conversation
with this person. And so therefore I was late for
our prearranged meeting. And just like anything, I think there's
absolutely a time for that. I think there are times
when you get interrupted and I will find myself just
(09:45):
being like, you know what? This is what I was
meant to be doing right now and not doing this
other thing. But just like everything, it could be corrupted.
It could be manipulated because I'm not going to place
judgment on that. person that was doing that because I
don't know them. But it could be a sense of
self-importance of, I'm always about the Lord's work. So you
(10:10):
little people don't have any bearing on my schedule because
I'm doing the Lord's work. And you might be part
of that and you might not, or you might be
part of that later than you wanted to, because that
appointment is overridden by my special hearing from God. That
attitude can become part of it. Or it could also,
without being quite as like haughty, it could become an
(10:33):
excuse for Like your mindset could be flipped and you
could just be like, oh, I'm it's OK that I'm
not on time ever. The Lord meant for me to
oversleep because I was maybe having a dream that, you know,
I think there are two pitfalls like that. But I
do think that it would be bad to be afraid
of those God changes in direction. But in the name
(10:56):
of keeping a schedule, because you could be so bound
to your schedule that you miss God's work. people's time
is also important and you should be considerate and you
should be. So I don't know, like everything, I'm wishy-washy
and in the middle.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
So I feel like there are certain things that aren't
good or bad. They aren't God or Satan. They're just
your personality. There are some personalities that are flighty. There
are some personalities that have a hard time being on time.
It can be a little annoying to people that they're inconveniencing,
and that could be where it ends. But the problem
(11:46):
is when it turns into something that is so spiritual.
So here's what it would look like if I over-spiritualized
my creative intuition. Let's say you're my publisher. And I'm
writing a book and I have signed a contract. I
(12:06):
have given you my word that I am going to
write this book for you. And you've already given me
some money for it. Okay. And then I come to you.
I say, Jamie, you are such a great sister in
the Lord. I totally know you're going to understand this.
God has called me to another project. So I am
going to be focused on that. And I will have
to come back. I have to lay this down on
(12:29):
the altar. this commitment that I made to you. Now, again,
I want to be careful in the same way you
were careful. There might truly be a time where God
calls somebody to do something like that. But if that
becomes my personality, I am going to step out on
what I see as a not flimsy limb and say,
(12:50):
it's not God, it's your personality, and you are making
God the fall guy for it. And that's really dangerous
because what are you going to do now? If you
cut my contract, which you might have the right to
do because I didn't deliver, then I could sit here
and be like, oh, she didn't see God. She was
(13:12):
so earthly minded. So yes, there are times where big H,
big S, big D, Holy Spirit discernment come and we
need to change our plans and people might be inconvenienced
and we might feel awkward, and it might be really hard,
but we just know that we've got to do it.
(13:33):
There might also be times where you can't make a
commitment and you've got to take that. I've got to say, Jamie,
I am struggling so much right now. I am having
such a hard time focusing. I am not going to
be able to meet this deadline. Can we talk about
extensions or can we talk about ways that maybe we
(13:57):
can both get back on track. Or maybe it's a
life-altering event. It's, I have gotten this terrible diagnosis and
I need to step away from this. That is so
different than saying, I've gotten a diagnosis and God has
told me to step away from this. The end result
might be the same. It might be the wise choice
for me to step away from it. But as soon
(14:19):
as I say, and God has told me to, I
have assumed so much And I have thrust so much
on you because what if you come to me and say, actually,
God told me that we were supposed to submit this
on time.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Then what do we do?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Then we're just two budding rams and nobody's going to give.
And we're both doing it in the name of the Lord. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
No, I think that's a nuance that's important to hold
on to because I think sometimes we think it's bad
to want things just for wanting them. Like you're talking
about the Hawaii thing. Like, You know, you said it's
not bad to, it wouldn't be bad to want to
go to Hawaii. But I think sometimes we put a
(15:01):
God stamp on it to make it seem like righteousness
in case the haters are going to hate and say, oh,
why is she using resources to go to Hawaii when
she can stay at home or whatever? So, yeah. And
I think that can be dangerous. I actually found in
my really quick looking, I found a similar passage to
(15:22):
our verse of the day. that clarifies a little bit more.
So can I share that? I think it's John 10
verses three to five. So I'll just read them first.
And again, I'm going to do the NASB and then
go to a couple of these things. But it says,
to him, the doorkeeper opens and the sheep hear his
voice and he calls his own sheep by name and
leads them out. When he puts forth all his own,
(15:44):
he goes ahead of them and the sheep follow him
because they know his voice. A stranger they simply will
not follow, but will flee from him because they do
not know the voice of strangers. So this is a
little bit different because it's saying that they will follow,
like we as Christians are going to follow Jesus because
(16:05):
we know, which means we have seen or perceived, hence
to know his voice or his sound. Like that's basically
saying we'll know his voice because we don't know the
voice of a stranger. And Again, it's more of an
allegory because, of course, we hear the voice of Satan sometimes, probably,
(16:26):
or whispers of the enemy in some way, shape, or form.
We've heard it, but I think this is kind of
saying that if, as Christians, I think, and I'm going
to extrapolate, I don't know if I'm theologically accurate or not,
so take this with a grain of salt because I'm
not a theologian, but If we spend time with Jesus,
if we spend time in God's word and we come
(16:47):
to know the character of what sounds like him, then
we are not necessarily going to follow a voice that
is contrary to that because that is not what is
familiar to us in terms of what we have come
to know as what Jesus would say. Coming from scripture,
(17:08):
coming from experience of you know, what is the fruit
of the spirit? James 3, 17 is another one. Like,
but the wisdom above is pure, peaceable, gentle, open to reason,
full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. And
so if those things are not coming out of what
we're hearing, then those are outside of the voice of Jesus.
(17:33):
I think it still leaves a lot unsaid though. And
I think it still leaves a lot because like you said,
moving to Hawaii, I mean, that could come from Jesus,
but it doesn't necessarily have to come from Jesus. So
could staying at home.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
And if it doesn't come from Jesus, that doesn't make
it wrong either. I would say this is going to
be my biggest takeaway, like the mic drop moment of
what I'm trying to say is sometimes God will tell
you to do something and you should do it. Sometimes
your intuition will tell you to do something and you
(18:08):
should do it. The only thing you shouldn't do is
attribute that to God.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yes, there you go.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Maybe there is something in your heart that is being
drawn to Hawaii and you can't explain it. And you
do have the means to go there.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
God bless you. And so you do.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
God did not call you to go to Hawaii, but
your intuition knew that you needed something there. You needed
the fresh air. You needed the rejuvenation. You needed the ocean.
Something there, your body needed. And that's what I have
learned to strip intuition down to. It's your body finding
nonverbal ways to communicate with you what it needs, or
(18:51):
your subconscious finding nonverbal ways to communicate with you. Your
intuition is not like a terrible, corrupt thing to be
afraid of.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Your intuition.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
is really, really, really smart. It's not as smart as God,
but it is really smart. And so I think we've
been taught as Christians to, okay, listen to God in
the Bible, listen to God in the Holy Spirit, listen
to God through your pastor and teachers and Bible teachers,
and everything else must be wrong. And that leaves out
(19:26):
this entire, okay, A, we've got common sense. I don't
need to read in the Bible or to have the
Holy Spirit tell me, that I shouldn't go outside at
10 below without proper winter gear, right? That's just me
using my brain. I don't stop and pray and ask
God if it's in his will that I wear a
coat because I believe that God has given me the
(19:51):
gift of common sense. And so I wear a coat
when it's 10 below. In the same way, God has
given us in two differing volumes an intuition that will
speak to us, but it is still so different than
the Holy Spirit. So for example, I think one thing
(20:11):
that a woman's intuition was designed to do is to
tell you when you are in an unsafe situation or
with an unsafe person. We have not had the gift
of being extremely muscular and dominant. And so God has
given us the extra gift of being able to read
(20:34):
people well and to know to differing degrees of accuracy
and never to 100% accuracy if we are with somebody
who is unsafe. Here is the extremely tragic version of
how bad it is when a well-meaning Christian believes that
intuition and Holy Spirit are exactly the same thing. In
(20:58):
this scenario, the woman is walking down the road and
just has a bad feeling. Because her intuition that was
given to her by God is telling her that something
is dangerous. But this woman, A, has not been told
to trust her intuition. And B, she has been told
that the only extrasensory information that she gets is the
(21:22):
Holy Spirit. So she interprets it as God told me
to leave and I didn't. And then let's make it
terribly tragic that she gets mugged. The woman with the
wrong understanding of the distinction between the Holy Spirit and
her intuition can very easily say, God told me to
(21:46):
leave and I didn't, so I was punished. Or even,
God told me to leave and I didn't, so God
punished me. And that is so, so wrong. You did
not sin against God by ignoring your intuition. You, I
will submit, were sinned against by the world that forced
(22:07):
you to ignore your intuition. And God was up here,
like morality was not a part of it, right? It wasn't,
am I sinning or am I not? It's, am I
trusting my intuition or am I not? That's why it
almost sounds like I'm advocating for a less spiritually pure
(22:28):
way of looking at ourselves. But I hope people see
Like the danger of enmeshing your intuition in God and A,
how prideful that can be, but also how devastating that is.
If then when you ignore your intuition and something bad happens,
then you take it as God punishing you because you've sinned.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
That's tragic.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
It is.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
So my husband and I, we're celebrating our 27th anniversary
this year in a few days. And we went to
dinner last week to celebrate. And we kind of went
through during the dinner, we kind of went through the
eras of our last, of our 27 years and kind
of just kind of like the whole dinner, we're just
kind of going through these different eras and talking about
(23:22):
them and what we got out of them, what were
the good things, the bad things, the in-between. And it
reminded me of just before moving to Alaska. We had
lived in Arizona. And at the time, we were really
happy there. Like we were very plugged into our church.
Looking back, I would say it was the place where
(23:43):
at least my husband had the best friends of almost
anywhere we've lived other than maybe like our college friends
back in Virginia. Because for men, it's kind of difficult,
I think, to make friends. I would say he had
the most friends, not necessarily, you know, that he didn't
have good friends other places. But anyway, I was involved
(24:04):
in children's ministry. He was involved in doing sound for
the church. We were part of this like church that
was mobile. So every Sunday we had to get there early,
set up everything. I mean, I was involved with music.
It was just, it was the most involved. I'd say
that we have been at a church in terms of
time spent serving and being with people in the church.
(24:26):
So Anyway, everything seemed like it was good. And then
he was given this opportunity to go to Alaska. The
first time, we said no. It didn't seem like the
right timing. But then that opportunity came up again. And
we started wondering, is this God giving us this opportunity?
My husband felt very strongly that he was supposed to
(24:48):
be going. And.
But not necessarily like, oh, God is calling me here.
It was just he really wanted a change of scenery
at that point and thought it was the right thing
to do. So we're just kind of doing this discernment
process and, you know, knowing that we're going to do
it imperfectly because we're not going to hear from God 100%.
(25:08):
But I just remember asking God, is he wanting to
do this for the wrong reasons? And I came to
the passage in, it was about Samson and how.
I hope I don't get it wrong because I haven't
reviewed it recently.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I remember this story.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Yeah, like he had this idea that he wanted to
go after this Philistine woman. He was forbidden to marry
a Philistine woman. And I think he basically was... Drawn
to her. And I don't know. Anyway, whatever the case.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
His parents were worried.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
His parents were worried. That's right.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Like the narrator was like, and they didn't know that
this was part of God's plan.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
That's right. And so.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
They didn't know. And it's like, who are we to
think that God won't even use? And I think this
was in the Bible. Like, who are you to think
that God won't even use just the regular, like carnal
desires of a person, their wishes, their wants? to bring
about his plan. And so I just remember reading that
and thinking, okay, like, all right. So even if, which
(26:14):
I'm not saying that it was not a God ordained thing,
but even if he's not seeking God about this, God's like,
who's to say I'm not going to move your family
where you're supposed to be one way or another. And
so that gave me this idea of, okay, maybe. And
then I just went to God directly and I just thought,
please give me confirmation. And so I just remember reading
(26:35):
about the transfiguration and Jesus takes a couple of the
disciples up and Moses and Elijah are there and everyone's
so happy. They're like, wow, let's just make a tent
and stay here because it feels good to be here.
And Jesus was like, nope, you got to go back.
You've got work to do somewhere else. Even though this
is a great place and a holy place and things
(26:55):
are really good here, I have other things for you
right now. And I read that and not everybody would
read it and come away with the same thing, but
I really felt the Holy Spirit just nudging me like,
this is for you. to understand that you're in a
good place, but I got other things. So go down
the mountain and keep going. There's more for you somewhere else.
(27:16):
And we ended up in Alaska. This podcast would never happen.
Our friendship would not have happened because you lived in Alaska.
And any number of things wouldn't have happened. So all
of that to say that I feel like a very
safe thing to do when you think you might be
hearing from God, but you're not sure, is just keep
asking him for wisdom. And again, another scripture is James 1.5.
(27:39):
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God,
it shall be given to him. And it might be
that if you're not sure of yourself, but you're sure
of God, you might need to ask a few times.
But I just truly believe if we just keep asking
and pursuing and being open to God's showing us through scripture,
through sermons, through people, through circumstances, I really believe that
(28:00):
we will eventually receive be able to discern like, is
it really God or is it not? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
And then I just want to add the reminder that
sometimes it's not going to be God, but it's still
going to be a nudging that makes sense for you
to listen to.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Yeah. Yeah. Good point.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
As Christians and as women, we really have had a
disservice thrust upon us to not learn how to trust
and honor and listen to our intuition. We're We're taught
to suppress it. We're taught that, well, since the heart
is deceitful above all things, then anything that I might
(28:38):
think or want must necessarily be my sin nature. And,
you know, there's so much that God has put inside
us by design that doesn't have to be as complicated
or as afraid of being tarnished by sin as we
make it. Like, sometimes we're hungry and that's a sign
(29:02):
that we should eat.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
So we do.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
And sometimes we're hungry and we're in the middle of
something and there's no food. So we don't like you
haven't sinned one way or the other, but the hunger
is still in most cases, right? Like, you know, relationships
with food can get enmeshed in, in things of the flesh.
But if you're not in a situation like that, like
(29:25):
hunger is just hunger. It doesn't have to be oh God,
should I eat this piece of pizza or not? Like
I really need, because I want to do it. But
if I want to do it, then it must not
be good for me. And I don't want to make
you mad. Like we have so much freedom in Christ.
I think that if I wanted to just like become
(29:48):
grandmother to the world and like impart grandmotherly advice to
the world, it would be like, things are okay. Like
God is not as mad about every small choice you
make as you might be afraid he is. Like it
would be, imagine how sad it would be to like,
you take your kid into this beautiful playroom, like just
(30:10):
the playroom of their dreams. And they come to you
with every, like, mommy, is it okay if I play
with this one now? Or will that make you mad? Like, mommy,
are you sad if I play with this toy? Like,
could I be done playing with this toy now? Or
does that hurt your feelings? That would be so sad
for a mom. And I feel like sometimes that's how
we treat God with the gifts he's given us.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah. So there's a book, there's a popular book out
by John Burke and it's called Imagine Heaven. And he
has a podcast too. And I would say, absolutely take
it with a grain of salt because he's a very
biblically based person. He interviews people who have had near
death experiences who are Christians. Some of them are not, but, um,
(30:52):
But he talks to them about their experiences. And his
goal as a pastor and as a Christian is not
to take everything. It's to find out everything, find common threads,
find out if they're biblical, and just talk about it.
And the idea is to equip believers with the not
to take someone's testimony about their alleged, whether it's true
(31:13):
or false, near-death experience as gospel, but to allow us
to take these stories and be able to imagine heaven
more fully and more biblically. So anyway, my point is,
one of the things that in his interviews that keeps
coming up, and whether it's true or not, I believe
(31:35):
it's biblical, is that their experience with God and with
Jesus in their experiences tend to be that they are
so full of joy and laughter and they're whimsical. They're loving,
but fun. And I'm not saying that there's not, there
(31:56):
aren't wrathful, judgmental aspects to God. And I'm not saying
that these experiences mean that's truly who God is, because
I'm not going to, you know, that's extra biblical. But
in the Bible, if you really do read it, and
I mean, there's just so much love. There's so much,
when you hear about the parables that Jesus uses to
(32:17):
describe God, like the prodigal son, you know, I mean,
he's joyful. He's loving. And I just feel like we
get so hung up on the God with the ruler
wrapping your knuckles when you've done something wrong that as Christians,
we forget some of the whimsicality and the joy and
the laughter that's, you know, reflected in us. What are
(32:38):
the things that we love about humanity? And we're made
in his image and we love to laugh. We love joy.
Those are things that fulfilling to us. So I don't know.
I just know that a wrong understanding of God has
been my pitfall, my downfall in a lot of my
problems as a Christian. And I just feel like the
(32:58):
more I look to who God is, it just helps
me to live my life, to enhance my prayer life,
enhance my relationship with God more when I understand more
who He is. I don't know. Maybe we'll cut that
whole thing out.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
No, that made a lot of sense. Yeah. Well, I
don't have a formal blessing ready, but I do hope
and pray that everybody listening learns to trust the gift
of intuition that God has given you and that you
are able to hear the voice of God when he
is trying to communicate with you. And my prayer is
(33:38):
that may we all have even greater ability to discern
which is which and Just as a reminder to drive
it home, that doesn't mean your intuition shouldn't be listened to.
It just shouldn't be attributed to the Lord. Amen.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
We'd like to take just a quick second to thank
the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us
on the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio.com, you will
find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network. They've
got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and so much more.
That's lifeaudio.com.
Life Audio.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hello, welcome to the Praying Christian Woman podcast. I am
Alana here with Jamie. How's it going?
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Going great. How about you?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I'm good. Happy back-to-school season to all the parents out
there and people getting kids or grandkids or neighbor kids
or foster kids or whoever you're getting off to school.
Happy back-to-school season to all the teachers and school workers
and How's the school year started for your family?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
It's been good. It's been a lot of moving parts,
but the kids are excited about their schools and their classes.
So I'm excited for the school year. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Well, and how about one more special blessing to families
who have kids start in college or away from home
for the first time too, or new empty nesters or
partial empty nesters, whatever season you're in. And happy fall,
I guess, or spring if you're in the lower hemisphere.
(01:04):
And I'm really excited for today's topic. It is a
question that I have been mulling over and finally feel
like I'm at the point where like, I don't know
if you're this way. I need time to like stew
over certain questions before I would be able to like
talk through them. And so like if I said, hey, Jamie,
(01:26):
give me your thoughts about this and you've never thought
about it before. It might be a little hard, but.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I don't know. I don't like getting caught off guard.
And also, I have an input CliftonStrength, so I like
to research and kind of make sure that my opinion
is based on something solid. We're kind of jumping into
this one, so I apologize in advance if I say
anything off the cuff and people are like, that is
(01:51):
not biblically accurate.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Well, and that's funny because Your input, I think, works
in the same way that my intellection does. So Jamie
and I are using CliftonStrengths languages. It's sort of like
a personality test, but a little more in-depth and tailored
more toward, like, I think it was designed for business people.
But for me, the intellection side is I need to
(02:15):
think about something before... Being able to really discuss.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, like ruminate on it and kind of let it
rattle around in your mind a little bit.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So while you're doing the research, I'm just doing the pacing.
I love that. And then we put our two brains together.
So I've had plenty of time to intellect on this.
You have had zero time to input on this. So
the question though is, A, how do we know if
it is our intuition speaking to us or the Holy Spirit?
(02:49):
And what I want to focus on even more importantly
is B, the dangers of assigning Holy Spirit discernment with
all capital letters to what is the gift of discernment.
Because if we had a Venn diagram, there would be
some things that would be just intuition, some things that
(03:10):
would be just Holy Spirit discernment, and some things in
the middle. And I think that to live wise lives...
We need to know where the promptings and desires and
thoughts are coming from and which we can pinpoint. We're
never going to get 100% correct, and that's okay, too.
(03:32):
That's part of humility, in my opinion. But I am
very excited to talk through this. Do you have a
verse of the day for us?
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I do. This is John 10, verse 27, and I'm
going to read it from the New American Standard Bible.
because I'm using the lexicon and I just want to
comment on a few of the actual translations from Strong's,
just of the Greek that it comes from. So it's,
my sheep hear my voice and I know them and
they follow me. And I would read this and think,
(04:02):
my sheep hear my voice. You know, sheep are what
Christians are referred to, followers of Christ. They follow the
shepherd who is Jesus. So those of us who are Christians,
who are believers, we hear his voice. and He knows us,
and we follow Him. And so I think what we're
talking about today is recognizing His voice. And this, when
(04:23):
I looked at the lexicon, is not exactly that. The word,
it's to hear or listen, and that means listen to Him.
It doesn't necessarily mean discern. And so we're still a
little stuck, even with this verse, because yes, I want
to listen to Jesus. And we know in scripture, those
(04:45):
are his words. We know that for sure in the Bible.
But what we're talking about is a little bit different
from that. And so maybe I should have chosen a
different verse, but it's too late.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
No, I think that what you just verbally went through
is the question we're talking about. How do we know
that difference between recognizing, hearing, listening? So I want to
start with some definitions like we often do. I also
want to start with some extremes because I think if
we can picture the extremes, that helps us to hone
(05:20):
in on what we're really talking about. So when I
talk about over-spiritualizing our intuition, the extreme version of that,
and I bet we have all either encountered people like
this in real life or like in our caricatured imagination. it's, oh, Jamie,
(05:45):
I really feel like God is not pleased when you
wear red.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Like, it's very clear that God doesn't care that you
happen to be wearing a bright red shirt today, which
looks lovely on you, by the way.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
And it's very clear that I.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Am forcing my opinion on you through God's voice, which
is so heretical. It is so dangerous. I'm going to
go so far as to call this an example of
using the Lord's name in vain. When I take my
(06:24):
opinion and I tell you that God is saying it,
then I have just, as I see it, used the
Lord's name in vain. I have invoked God for me.
extremely selfish purposes. So that was the real extreme. But
(06:44):
it can get trickier. It can get into, well, where
does God want us to go on a mission trip? Oh,
God must really want us to go to Hawaii. And
I say that kind of as a joke, but Hawaii
could use missionaries just like everywhere else in the world.
But how do I know if my call to Hawaii
(07:05):
is Is my body lacking vitamin D because I live
in Alaska? You know, but if I say God's calling
me to Hawaii, A, I sound really, really special because
I can hear God. B, nobody can argue with that.
It's like, oh, oh, don't take it up with me.
Take it up with God, you know, and who's going
(07:28):
to go against God? And then it also brings sin
into it. It means that if I don't go to Hawaii,
I am sinning against the Lord. So those are examples
of how we might use personal opinion and put that
under the label of Holy Spirit discernment. And then I
(07:51):
think we do it with our intuition. And I want
to say this. It's not bad to have opinions. It's
not bad. to hope that at some point God tells
Jamie's family to move and become our next-door neighbors. Like,
it's not bad to have desires. What is bad is
when I come to you and say, God has told
me that you need to uproot your family and come
(08:14):
be our next-door neighbors. Because you can't argue with that.
And then somebody's sinning. If you don't do it, you're sinning.
And It can be very coercive. So some churches and
high control groups will use it, but it can come
across in even the most well-intentioned well-meaning. I'm going to
(08:36):
give you a caricature that again, I feel like a
lot of people have encountered or can imagine of a
person who is so flaky, but it's all God's fault.
And so I was like, oh, Sorry I made you
wait for an hour. God and I were having a conversation. Okay.
(08:58):
What do you say to that? You can't say anything
to that.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
No. I have a friend who knew someone that was
like that. And she kind of told me about it
in a like almost attitude of admiration for this person.
She said, this person is never on time. They are
always late for stuff. but they just are always following God.
(09:23):
And so it's like, oh, exactly. I think the example
that was given to me was, I was late because
the Lord told me to stop and have a conversation
with this person. And so therefore I was late for
our prearranged meeting. And just like anything, I think there's
absolutely a time for that. I think there are times
when you get interrupted and I will find myself just
(09:45):
being like, you know what? This is what I was
meant to be doing right now and not doing this
other thing. But just like everything, it could be corrupted.
It could be manipulated because I'm not going to place
judgment on that. person that was doing that because I
don't know them. But it could be a sense of
self-importance of, I'm always about the Lord's work. So you
(10:10):
little people don't have any bearing on my schedule because
I'm doing the Lord's work. And you might be part
of that and you might not, or you might be
part of that later than you wanted to, because that
appointment is overridden by my special hearing from God. That
attitude can become part of it. Or it could also,
without being quite as like haughty, it could become an
(10:33):
excuse for Like your mindset could be flipped and you
could just be like, oh, I'm it's OK that I'm
not on time ever. The Lord meant for me to
oversleep because I was maybe having a dream that, you know,
I think there are two pitfalls like that. But I
do think that it would be bad to be afraid
of those God changes in direction. But in the name
(10:56):
of keeping a schedule, because you could be so bound
to your schedule that you miss God's work. people's time
is also important and you should be considerate and you
should be. So I don't know, like everything, I'm wishy-washy
and in the middle.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
So I feel like there are certain things that aren't
good or bad. They aren't God or Satan. They're just
your personality. There are some personalities that are flighty. There
are some personalities that have a hard time being on time.
It can be a little annoying to people that they're inconveniencing,
and that could be where it ends. But the problem
(11:46):
is when it turns into something that is so spiritual.
So here's what it would look like if I over-spiritualized
my creative intuition. Let's say you're my publisher. And I'm
writing a book and I have signed a contract. I
(12:06):
have given you my word that I am going to
write this book for you. And you've already given me
some money for it. Okay. And then I come to you.
I say, Jamie, you are such a great sister in
the Lord. I totally know you're going to understand this.
God has called me to another project. So I am
going to be focused on that. And I will have
to come back. I have to lay this down on
(12:29):
the altar. this commitment that I made to you. Now, again,
I want to be careful in the same way you
were careful. There might truly be a time where God
calls somebody to do something like that. But if that
becomes my personality, I am going to step out on
what I see as a not flimsy limb and say,
(12:50):
it's not God, it's your personality, and you are making
God the fall guy for it. And that's really dangerous
because what are you going to do now? If you
cut my contract, which you might have the right to
do because I didn't deliver, then I could sit here
and be like, oh, she didn't see God. She was
(13:12):
so earthly minded. So yes, there are times where big H,
big S, big D, Holy Spirit discernment come and we
need to change our plans and people might be inconvenienced
and we might feel awkward, and it might be really hard,
but we just know that we've got to do it.
(13:33):
There might also be times where you can't make a
commitment and you've got to take that. I've got to say, Jamie,
I am struggling so much right now. I am having
such a hard time focusing. I am not going to
be able to meet this deadline. Can we talk about
extensions or can we talk about ways that maybe we
(13:57):
can both get back on track. Or maybe it's a
life-altering event. It's, I have gotten this terrible diagnosis and
I need to step away from this. That is so
different than saying, I've gotten a diagnosis and God has
told me to step away from this. The end result
might be the same. It might be the wise choice
for me to step away from it. But as soon
(14:19):
as I say, and God has told me to, I
have assumed so much And I have thrust so much
on you because what if you come to me and say, actually,
God told me that we were supposed to submit this
on time.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Then what do we do?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Then we're just two budding rams and nobody's going to give.
And we're both doing it in the name of the Lord. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
No, I think that's a nuance that's important to hold
on to because I think sometimes we think it's bad
to want things just for wanting them. Like you're talking
about the Hawaii thing. Like, You know, you said it's
not bad to, it wouldn't be bad to want to
go to Hawaii. But I think sometimes we put a
(15:01):
God stamp on it to make it seem like righteousness
in case the haters are going to hate and say, oh,
why is she using resources to go to Hawaii when
she can stay at home or whatever? So, yeah. And
I think that can be dangerous. I actually found in
my really quick looking, I found a similar passage to
(15:22):
our verse of the day. that clarifies a little bit more.
So can I share that? I think it's John 10
verses three to five. So I'll just read them first.
And again, I'm going to do the NASB and then
go to a couple of these things. But it says,
to him, the doorkeeper opens and the sheep hear his
voice and he calls his own sheep by name and
leads them out. When he puts forth all his own,
(15:44):
he goes ahead of them and the sheep follow him
because they know his voice. A stranger they simply will
not follow, but will flee from him because they do
not know the voice of strangers. So this is a
little bit different because it's saying that they will follow,
like we as Christians are going to follow Jesus because
(16:05):
we know, which means we have seen or perceived, hence
to know his voice or his sound. Like that's basically
saying we'll know his voice because we don't know the
voice of a stranger. And Again, it's more of an
allegory because, of course, we hear the voice of Satan sometimes, probably,
(16:26):
or whispers of the enemy in some way, shape, or form.
We've heard it, but I think this is kind of
saying that if, as Christians, I think, and I'm going
to extrapolate, I don't know if I'm theologically accurate or not,
so take this with a grain of salt because I'm
not a theologian, but If we spend time with Jesus,
if we spend time in God's word and we come
(16:47):
to know the character of what sounds like him, then
we are not necessarily going to follow a voice that
is contrary to that because that is not what is
familiar to us in terms of what we have come
to know as what Jesus would say. Coming from scripture,
(17:08):
coming from experience of you know, what is the fruit
of the spirit? James 3, 17 is another one. Like,
but the wisdom above is pure, peaceable, gentle, open to reason,
full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. And
so if those things are not coming out of what
we're hearing, then those are outside of the voice of Jesus.
(17:33):
I think it still leaves a lot unsaid though. And
I think it still leaves a lot because like you said,
moving to Hawaii, I mean, that could come from Jesus,
but it doesn't necessarily have to come from Jesus. So
could staying at home.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
And if it doesn't come from Jesus, that doesn't make
it wrong either. I would say this is going to
be my biggest takeaway, like the mic drop moment of
what I'm trying to say is sometimes God will tell
you to do something and you should do it. Sometimes
your intuition will tell you to do something and you
(18:08):
should do it. The only thing you shouldn't do is
attribute that to God.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yes, there you go.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Maybe there is something in your heart that is being
drawn to Hawaii and you can't explain it. And you
do have the means to go there.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
God bless you. And so you do.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
God did not call you to go to Hawaii, but
your intuition knew that you needed something there. You needed
the fresh air. You needed the rejuvenation. You needed the ocean.
Something there, your body needed. And that's what I have
learned to strip intuition down to. It's your body finding
nonverbal ways to communicate with you what it needs, or
(18:51):
your subconscious finding nonverbal ways to communicate with you. Your
intuition is not like a terrible, corrupt thing to be
afraid of.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Your intuition.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
is really, really, really smart. It's not as smart as God,
but it is really smart. And so I think we've
been taught as Christians to, okay, listen to God in
the Bible, listen to God in the Holy Spirit, listen
to God through your pastor and teachers and Bible teachers,
and everything else must be wrong. And that leaves out
(19:26):
this entire, okay, A, we've got common sense. I don't
need to read in the Bible or to have the
Holy Spirit tell me, that I shouldn't go outside at
10 below without proper winter gear, right? That's just me
using my brain. I don't stop and pray and ask
God if it's in his will that I wear a
coat because I believe that God has given me the
(19:51):
gift of common sense. And so I wear a coat
when it's 10 below. In the same way, God has
given us in two differing volumes an intuition that will
speak to us, but it is still so different than
the Holy Spirit. So for example, I think one thing
(20:11):
that a woman's intuition was designed to do is to
tell you when you are in an unsafe situation or
with an unsafe person. We have not had the gift
of being extremely muscular and dominant. And so God has
given us the extra gift of being able to read
(20:34):
people well and to know to differing degrees of accuracy
and never to 100% accuracy if we are with somebody
who is unsafe. Here is the extremely tragic version of
how bad it is when a well-meaning Christian believes that
intuition and Holy Spirit are exactly the same thing. In
(20:58):
this scenario, the woman is walking down the road and
just has a bad feeling. Because her intuition that was
given to her by God is telling her that something
is dangerous. But this woman, A, has not been told
to trust her intuition. And B, she has been told
that the only extrasensory information that she gets is the
(21:22):
Holy Spirit. So she interprets it as God told me
to leave and I didn't. And then let's make it
terribly tragic that she gets mugged. The woman with the
wrong understanding of the distinction between the Holy Spirit and
her intuition can very easily say, God told me to
(21:46):
leave and I didn't, so I was punished. Or even,
God told me to leave and I didn't, so God
punished me. And that is so, so wrong. You did
not sin against God by ignoring your intuition. You, I
will submit, were sinned against by the world that forced
(22:07):
you to ignore your intuition. And God was up here,
like morality was not a part of it, right? It wasn't,
am I sinning or am I not? It's, am I
trusting my intuition or am I not? That's why it
almost sounds like I'm advocating for a less spiritually pure
(22:28):
way of looking at ourselves. But I hope people see
Like the danger of enmeshing your intuition in God and A,
how prideful that can be, but also how devastating that is.
If then when you ignore your intuition and something bad happens,
then you take it as God punishing you because you've sinned.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
That's tragic.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
It is.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
So my husband and I, we're celebrating our 27th anniversary
this year in a few days. And we went to
dinner last week to celebrate. And we kind of went
through during the dinner, we kind of went through the
eras of our last, of our 27 years and kind
of just kind of like the whole dinner, we're just
kind of going through these different eras and talking about
(23:22):
them and what we got out of them, what were
the good things, the bad things, the in-between. And it
reminded me of just before moving to Alaska. We had
lived in Arizona. And at the time, we were really
happy there. Like we were very plugged into our church.
Looking back, I would say it was the place where
(23:43):
at least my husband had the best friends of almost
anywhere we've lived other than maybe like our college friends
back in Virginia. Because for men, it's kind of difficult,
I think, to make friends. I would say he had
the most friends, not necessarily, you know, that he didn't
have good friends other places. But anyway, I was involved
(24:04):
in children's ministry. He was involved in doing sound for
the church. We were part of this like church that
was mobile. So every Sunday we had to get there early,
set up everything. I mean, I was involved with music.
It was just, it was the most involved. I'd say
that we have been at a church in terms of
time spent serving and being with people in the church.
(24:26):
So Anyway, everything seemed like it was good. And then
he was given this opportunity to go to Alaska. The
first time, we said no. It didn't seem like the
right timing. But then that opportunity came up again. And
we started wondering, is this God giving us this opportunity?
My husband felt very strongly that he was supposed to
(24:48):
be going. And.
But not necessarily like, oh, God is calling me here.
It was just he really wanted a change of scenery
at that point and thought it was the right thing
to do. So we're just kind of doing this discernment
process and, you know, knowing that we're going to do
it imperfectly because we're not going to hear from God 100%.
(25:08):
But I just remember asking God, is he wanting to
do this for the wrong reasons? And I came to
the passage in, it was about Samson and how.
I hope I don't get it wrong because I haven't
reviewed it recently.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I remember this story.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Yeah, like he had this idea that he wanted to
go after this Philistine woman. He was forbidden to marry
a Philistine woman. And I think he basically was... Drawn
to her. And I don't know. Anyway, whatever the case.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
His parents were worried.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
His parents were worried. That's right.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Like the narrator was like, and they didn't know that
this was part of God's plan.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
That's right. And so.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
They didn't know. And it's like, who are we to
think that God won't even use? And I think this
was in the Bible. Like, who are you to think
that God won't even use just the regular, like carnal
desires of a person, their wishes, their wants? to bring
about his plan. And so I just remember reading that
and thinking, okay, like, all right. So even if, which
(26:14):
I'm not saying that it was not a God ordained thing,
but even if he's not seeking God about this, God's like,
who's to say I'm not going to move your family
where you're supposed to be one way or another. And
so that gave me this idea of, okay, maybe. And
then I just went to God directly and I just thought,
please give me confirmation. And so I just remember reading
(26:35):
about the transfiguration and Jesus takes a couple of the
disciples up and Moses and Elijah are there and everyone's
so happy. They're like, wow, let's just make a tent
and stay here because it feels good to be here.
And Jesus was like, nope, you got to go back.
You've got work to do somewhere else. Even though this
is a great place and a holy place and things
(26:55):
are really good here, I have other things for you
right now. And I read that and not everybody would
read it and come away with the same thing, but
I really felt the Holy Spirit just nudging me like,
this is for you. to understand that you're in a
good place, but I got other things. So go down
the mountain and keep going. There's more for you somewhere else.
(27:16):
And we ended up in Alaska. This podcast would never happen.
Our friendship would not have happened because you lived in Alaska.
And any number of things wouldn't have happened. So all
of that to say that I feel like a very
safe thing to do when you think you might be
hearing from God, but you're not sure, is just keep
asking him for wisdom. And again, another scripture is James 1.5.
(27:39):
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God,
it shall be given to him. And it might be
that if you're not sure of yourself, but you're sure
of God, you might need to ask a few times.
But I just truly believe if we just keep asking
and pursuing and being open to God's showing us through scripture,
through sermons, through people, through circumstances, I really believe that
(28:00):
we will eventually receive be able to discern like, is
it really God or is it not? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
And then I just want to add the reminder that
sometimes it's not going to be God, but it's still
going to be a nudging that makes sense for you
to listen to.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Yeah. Yeah. Good point.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
As Christians and as women, we really have had a
disservice thrust upon us to not learn how to trust
and honor and listen to our intuition. We're We're taught
to suppress it. We're taught that, well, since the heart
is deceitful above all things, then anything that I might
(28:38):
think or want must necessarily be my sin nature. And,
you know, there's so much that God has put inside
us by design that doesn't have to be as complicated
or as afraid of being tarnished by sin as we
make it. Like, sometimes we're hungry and that's a sign
(29:02):
that we should eat.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
So we do.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
And sometimes we're hungry and we're in the middle of
something and there's no food. So we don't like you
haven't sinned one way or the other, but the hunger
is still in most cases, right? Like, you know, relationships
with food can get enmeshed in, in things of the flesh.
But if you're not in a situation like that, like
(29:25):
hunger is just hunger. It doesn't have to be oh God,
should I eat this piece of pizza or not? Like
I really need, because I want to do it. But
if I want to do it, then it must not
be good for me. And I don't want to make
you mad. Like we have so much freedom in Christ.
I think that if I wanted to just like become
(29:48):
grandmother to the world and like impart grandmotherly advice to
the world, it would be like, things are okay. Like
God is not as mad about every small choice you
make as you might be afraid he is. Like it
would be, imagine how sad it would be to like,
you take your kid into this beautiful playroom, like just
(30:10):
the playroom of their dreams. And they come to you
with every, like, mommy, is it okay if I play
with this one now? Or will that make you mad? Like, mommy,
are you sad if I play with this toy? Like,
could I be done playing with this toy now? Or
does that hurt your feelings? That would be so sad
for a mom. And I feel like sometimes that's how
we treat God with the gifts he's given us.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah. So there's a book, there's a popular book out
by John Burke and it's called Imagine Heaven. And he
has a podcast too. And I would say, absolutely take
it with a grain of salt because he's a very
biblically based person. He interviews people who have had near
death experiences who are Christians. Some of them are not, but, um,
(30:52):
But he talks to them about their experiences. And his
goal as a pastor and as a Christian is not
to take everything. It's to find out everything, find common threads,
find out if they're biblical, and just talk about it.
And the idea is to equip believers with the not
to take someone's testimony about their alleged, whether it's true
(31:13):
or false, near-death experience as gospel, but to allow us
to take these stories and be able to imagine heaven
more fully and more biblically. So anyway, my point is,
one of the things that in his interviews that keeps
coming up, and whether it's true or not, I believe
(31:35):
it's biblical, is that their experience with God and with
Jesus in their experiences tend to be that they are
so full of joy and laughter and they're whimsical. They're loving,
but fun. And I'm not saying that there's not, there
(31:56):
aren't wrathful, judgmental aspects to God. And I'm not saying
that these experiences mean that's truly who God is, because
I'm not going to, you know, that's extra biblical. But
in the Bible, if you really do read it, and
I mean, there's just so much love. There's so much,
when you hear about the parables that Jesus uses to
(32:17):
describe God, like the prodigal son, you know, I mean,
he's joyful. He's loving. And I just feel like we
get so hung up on the God with the ruler
wrapping your knuckles when you've done something wrong that as Christians,
we forget some of the whimsicality and the joy and
the laughter that's, you know, reflected in us. What are
(32:38):
the things that we love about humanity? And we're made
in his image and we love to laugh. We love joy.
Those are things that fulfilling to us. So I don't know.
I just know that a wrong understanding of God has
been my pitfall, my downfall in a lot of my
problems as a Christian. And I just feel like the
(32:58):
more I look to who God is, it just helps
me to live my life, to enhance my prayer life,
enhance my relationship with God more when I understand more
who He is. I don't know. Maybe we'll cut that
whole thing out.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
No, that made a lot of sense. Yeah. Well, I
don't have a formal blessing ready, but I do hope
and pray that everybody listening learns to trust the gift
of intuition that God has given you and that you
are able to hear the voice of God when he
is trying to communicate with you. And my prayer is
(33:38):
that may we all have even greater ability to discern
which is which and Just as a reminder to drive
it home, that doesn't mean your intuition shouldn't be listened to.
It just shouldn't be attributed to the Lord. Amen.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
We'd like to take just a quick second to thank
the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us
on the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio.com, you will
find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network. They've
got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and so much more.
That's lifeaudio.com.
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