August 31, 2026 • 39 mins
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Have you ever wondered if it’s possible to worship God using a secular song, or if only Christian music can be used for prayer?
This week, Alana and Jaime pay a heartfelt tribute to the late, great Dolly Parton, diving into a thought-provoking conversation on how to find the Holy Spirit in unexpected places—and how everyday music can become a powerful template for worship.
In this episode, Alana and Jaime tackle the artificial divide between "sacred" and "secular" media that many Christians grew up with. They unpack the idea that if a song isn't promoting sin, it has the potential to draw us closer to the Lord, because we are called to do everything for His glory. They explain why taking pleasure in the beautiful, ordinary aspects of the human experience honors God's design for creativity, and why songs about family, unity, and love are deeply biblical.
Jaime reflects on the spiritual themes in Dolly's "Coat of Many Colors" and shares a touching story about a crocheted prayer shawl given to her stepmom, highlighting how we can infuse our everyday actions with love and prayer. Alana then walks step-by-step through her personal method of using a physical Bible concordance to turn the lyrics of Dolly's "Light of a Clear Blue Morning" into an interactive, spiritually enriching journey through Scripture.
You’ll walk away with a fresh appreciation for Dolly's beautiful legacy, a reminder of the incredible freedom we have to find God in all things, and practical wisdom on how to make everything—even a catchy tune—a springboard for prayer.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Life Audio. Hello, welcome to the Praying Christian Woman podcast.
I am Alana here with Jeannie. How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm good. How about you?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I am good slash heartbroken.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Yes, I was going to say, okay, yeah, good, but
not good.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yes, we are giving Miss Dolly Parton the Queen of
Country tribute in today's episode. And no, it's just not
going to be Jamie and me talking about how much
we love her, although there will, I'm sure, be.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Some of that.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
There is going to be a question, and that is,
can you take secular music and make it worshipful or
make it a template for prayer? But the heart of
it truly is we are both pretty sad at Dolly's
death and really admired her as an individual person. So
(00:58):
do you have a favorite Dolly story or something about
her that you just loved and adored?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
There are two things. So actually the first thing is
her imagination library. So she, for those that don't know
what that is, basically she grew up impoverished and they
didn't have access to a lot of things and including books.
And so she used some of her money to To
(01:25):
do this imagination library. So I didn't know what it
was until we had our first kid in 2006. And
in the hospital we were at, we got this thing.
And it's like, yeah, everybody gets the opportunity to enroll
in the imagination library, which they will send one book
a month, I believe.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
It was.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
From the time that baby is born until kindergarten, when
you get the kindergarten imagination library book. And it was... Basically,
the idea is that even for people, for kids whose
families are not going to take them to a library
or who can't afford access to books or whose families
(02:02):
would not think to get them books, they get books.
And it's to increase literacy. But it's not like you
have to meet a certain income level. It's for everyone
that signs up for it. It's incredible. And all of
our kids benefited from those books. We would have taken
them to the library and bought books, but all of those,
they're great books. So some of our favorite ones have
(02:22):
come from that collection, which is wonderful.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Do you have one in mind that you remember specifically
coming from them? I wish I did.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I haven't gone through them in a while to know
which ones, but yeah, I know that there were several
that are in our collection.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Wow. We did it too. It was always so exciting
to get those books in the mail. I remember when
we were asked if we wanted to sign up. I
think we were at the public library when they asked
us if we wanted to sign up. And I was like,
what's the catch? It was just so absurd to me
that there wasn't anything you had to do other than
be a child under the age of five. And reading
(03:02):
to my kids was the most special thing that I did.
with my children when they were young.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
So to have somebody who saw how important literature for
kids is and how beautiful picture books can be, I
wish it was more normalized for like just adults to
sit and read picture books to each other. I would
totally call you up on the phone and read you
a frog and toad book over Zoom or something, you know,
(03:34):
because they're beautiful and they're, They're sweet. And yeah, I
think really that's one of the things that made me
fall in love with Dolly was her imagination library.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Did I steal yours or do you have another one?
Speaker 1 (03:49):
What I have loved is since her passing, my entire
YouTube is literally nothing but Dolly tributes and Dolly songs.
And I don't listen to country music. So it's not
like this is my jam. What I am so struck by,
and I've known this about Dolly, but what really strikes
(04:11):
me is like two videos, one after another. One was
a Christian band paying a tribute to Dolly Parton. And
one was the Gay Men's Chorus of Los Angeles singing
a tribute to Dolly Parton. And this is not me
taking any stance on any controversial issue. This is me
saying it is beautiful to have one individual sing who
(04:32):
could unify and be respected and loved by so many
diverse people.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah. I think I shared it with you. There was
a meme that came through and it's like, basically, the
last human just beloved by everyone in the world has
just passed away because she bridged gaps. And She was just,
you know, the epitome of love and kindness and generosity
(05:00):
really is what it boiled down to. I saw a
post about Eminem posted a tribute to her, Marshall Mathers.
And she had written him a letter, like an email
saying congratulations for being inducted into the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame or whatever. And but just, you know.
She reached out to everyone. She didn't stay in her lane.
(05:23):
There was no lane.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
She had no lane.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
And that's Christ-like.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
My very favorite Dolly Parton song is not one of
the ones we're going to be talking about because we
are talking specifically about secular songs. But have you seen
her live version of He Is Alive?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
No, I have not.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
It is amazing. It's the song, you might recognize it.
It's a song sung usually on Easter from Peter's perspective.
And she has a version with it. And there's a
whole gospel choir behind her for the end. It's so powerful.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Oh, that's neat.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
So yeah, like my kids know her as the, he's
a live singer. That's their introduction. So I haven't failed
as a parent. I'm going to take that as my win.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Thank goodness. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
They don't know any Dolly Parton original songs, but they
know her, He's Alive. So that is your homework and
any listener homework is to go and listen to that.
So powerful.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I definitely will. I know the song you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, yeah. It's a powerful song no matter what. All right.
So today's episode, what we want to do is, first
of all, posit the question, can you worship God with
a secular song? And I want to be really careful.
Most people are going to assume, can you take a
love song and sing it to God? And this is
(06:50):
extremely beyond that. Like that's maybe like half of a
percent of what I'm talking about. I'm really asking the
question of, can a song that was not written to
be sung in church and not written by Christians and
not written to be sacred, be a worshipful experience or
a template for prayer or something that draws you to
(07:11):
the Lord?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Yeah, I actually had a conversation by messenger with a
former pastor who I don't live near anymore. But we
were just having the conversation about the song One Day
by Modest Yahoo, who at one point was a Hasidic Jew.
I don't believe he adheres to that faith anymore. Not
(07:35):
a Christian, not a Christian song. It is, for those
that don't know, it's basically a song about, you know,
one day there won't be war. What is it? There'll
be no more war. I can't even think of the,
and our children will play one day. So he did
this one rendition. There was a conductor who conducted One
(08:01):
Day by Modest Yahoo, and he had representatives of Palestinian
descent and Jewish descent. coming together, I think in Tel Aviv.
And they, you might've seen it. They basically trained them
over the course of a day to do these different parts.
And it was beautiful. Then at one point they're singing
(08:21):
in their own languages. It's like Arabic. And anyway, it was,
it was beautiful. And I, you know, it, when I
experienced that performance and, it wasn't just like chills. It
felt like the Holy Spirit feeling. And I just was
like kind of wrestling with, okay, how do, like, what
(08:44):
do I name this? Is there the Holy Spirit? Can
the Holy Spirit be present and active in something that's secular?
Because I know it's not Christian, but it talks about unity.
It's involving God's people. It's involving all people, you know?
And And I don't know. So I don't know how
to really put that into words, but we had kind
(09:06):
of a conversation about it and, you know, the difference
between the Holy Spirit and just positivity. The long and
the short of it is, I believe, I hope it
doesn't get taken in the wrong way, but when I
experience that song or sing that song, I experience the
Holy Spirit in a worshipful experience because it's a prayer
(09:28):
from me to God for peace and for justice. And it's,
so my short answer is yes.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, I would say so too. I think that if
we wanted to add qualifiers, we definitely could. But my
thought is, if it's not a sin to listen to
secular music, just blank, you know, I'm sure that everybody
can point to some songs that they're not going to
listen to for religious conviction. But in general, if we're
(10:10):
not going to make it a rule that every song
you listen to must be written by a Christian and
sung to God, then to me, it almost must follow
that it could be worshipful because we're supposed to make
everything worshipful. We are supposed to do everything for the
glory of God. So if it's not a sin, then
(10:32):
shouldn't it by definition be something that draws us closer
to the Lord? And let's also go ahead and add
that music itself, let's strip spirituality out of it. Some
music has transcendental power to it.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And that doesn't mean that if it's not of God,
it's of the devil. Sometimes it's just that God gave
us brains and bodies that respond to music in that way. So...
I think that there's definitely, you know, there's spiritual music.
There's probably what we could call neutral music. It's just
the music that you like to have on in the background.
(11:14):
And it's kind of passive. It's innocuous. It's not drawing
you closer to God or pulling you away from God.
Most people, like, do you have songs that you would
refuse to listen to for religious reasons and conviction?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
There are a couple. There are a couple that I
Don't like. I don't even know if I want to
go into it, but I kind of do.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
You don't have to. All right.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I kind of do.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I saw your eyes light up. Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I don't know how to. So, okay. I'm not going
to give the name just because I don't want to.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
But there is a song and the lyrics mention someone
who is known to be involved in the occult. And
It has an awesome guitar solo. I'm just going to
say it because it's Dear Mr. Crowley, okay?
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I've never heard of it.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
About Alistair Crowley, who was involved in the occult. And
apparently the song itself, I honestly, I have not analyzed
the lyrics, but apparently I have been told that it
is not condoning what he has done. But the fact
that it mentions his name, I don't like it being played.
(12:29):
I don't like it. And I've set that boundary. So
let's just say that. Even though it has a wicked
guitar solo, I do not like it.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Oh, I see what you did there. But I also
don't want my son playing it and have told him that.
So that is one line that I have drawn. I
think I'm way over what most people in terms of
what I'll let my kids listen to. Like I'm way more,
I know that there are many people who set lines
(12:59):
and boundaries a lot more, you know, like, oh, this band,
this whatever. And I haven't gone to those lengths, but
that is one of just a handful that I think
are sacrilegious. And I don't like being played for the content.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Well, there's something about music that lowers all of your
prefrontal defenses and so it is easier to be persuaded
by music it touches your emotions and your subconscious more
than just a lecture would there are some songs and
(13:38):
for me i distinguish it as just entirely personal conviction
some of it's personal conviction, but a big chunk of
it is just personal preference. Even like there were some
songs that I would say, I am not convicted that
it's a sin for me to listen to, but they
give me the heebie-jeebies, you know? One of them, You're
(13:58):
Gonna Laugh, but it's in Phantom of the Opera. And
it's like this very seductive sounding song. It's past the
point of no return. And most of the time I
skip it because I don't like it in my head
and it's kind of creepy and it leaves me feeling
kind of oppressed. I don't think the song's demonic. I
don't think it's wrong. If my son got to play
(14:19):
the phantom, I wouldn't forbid him from singing it. You know,
there's none of that to me. I just, it is
a personal preference that has a tiny bit of spiritual
heebie-jeebie element, but I would never go so far as
to say it's like sinful or something. So, you know,
if we can, agree that there are a lot of
(14:40):
songs that are neutral. They're not written for God. And
let's even say lyrically, right? Because an argument can be
made that any song that has lyrics that promote something
sinful could be sinful to some people to listen to.
That would be a stricter interpretation than what I ascribe to,
(15:01):
but I totally get why some people would say that.
So let's just even take all of those songs out
of the equation. if it's not talking about or condoning sin,
and it's also not like a praise song to Jesus,
and it's just in that neutral ground, it's, in my opinion,
not a sin issue whatsoever. So therefore, it could also
(15:25):
become a platform for prayer or a platform for worship.
And the human experience is Like we're meant to worship God,
but we're meant to do other things too. We're meant
to love others. We're meant to love our kids. So
I grew up listening to a ton of contemporary Christian
music in the 90s. I was there when there was
(15:47):
like a day, and I don't know if you were there.
There was a day that contemporary Christian music switched from,
we are a Christian band singing clean songs for Christian
listeners to music. We are worship bands singing songs to Jesus.
Do you remember that very big schism when it happened?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
I've never taken note of it like that, but I
can see what you're saying. We went from like big house, big,
big house where we can play football, you know, like
all the fun, just kind of like, let's just sing.
And then now it's worship bands like, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
And at the time, I loved it. I still like,
I love that we have really, in my opinion, we
have good contemporary music. And that came out of that.
But what it also did is it subtly reinforced in
us that there is a divide between what can be
music that honors God and everything else. Like Butterfly Kisses
(16:56):
was all over the Christian radio stations. And now... If
someone came out with the butterfly kisses, it would almost
be like, oh, we can't play this on a contemporary
Christian station because it's not just about God. It's about
a father who loves his daughter. And my question is like,
how is that also not part of the Christian experience?
(17:16):
You know what I mean? Yeah. But it can reinforce
this idea that if it's not sung to God, then
it's not real Christian music.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
So.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Let's take the Dolly Parton. What we did to give
all of you listening an example of what we're talking
about is we each chose a Dolly Parton song, and
we're going to go through some of the lyrics and, yeah,
ask ourselves, would I worship to this? Could I pray
to this? Could I make it a template for prayer?
So what did you choose for us?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
So I chose Coat of Many Colors. And like I
mentioned before, Dolly grew up in poverty, and she's talked
about this being one of her favorite songs because it's autobiographical.
And it's called Coat of Many Colors, and it's about
her mom using this box of just rags, basically, to
(18:13):
sew together a coat for her, and she kind of
parallels it. It's not Biblical at all, because she does
talk about her mom talking about a story from the Bible,
but in itself, it's autobiographical. So maybe I'm cheating a
little because it mentions the Bible.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
I don't think so. I think this is exactly what
I mean. Kind of like with Butterfly Kisses. Right. The
idea of a mother taking care of her daughter, clothing
her daughter.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
That's straight out of Proverbs 31.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
The idea of a mother making something beautiful, even if
she doesn't have a lot of resources, there is nothing
that in my mind we could say, oh, that's so,
so vain. Why are we listening to this secular song?
And so I would say like, and I'm going to
guess the majority of our listeners, I'm This could be
(19:02):
a neutral song, right? It's not a sin to listen
to this song. I want to take it one step further, though,
and say, well, can it actually bring us closer to
God to listen to this song? And I don't know
this song, so I'm kind of excited.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Yeah. Do you want me to read just the first
few verses? Or do you want me to read all
of them?
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Or maybe just spot check and stop when you get
to things that you want to draw out.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Okay. Yeah. So verse one. Back through the years I go,
wandering once again, back to the seasons of my youth,
I recall a box of rags that someone gave us
and how my mama put the rags to use. There
were rags of many colors and every piece was small
and I didn't have a coat and it was way
down in the fall. Mama sewed the rags together, sewing
(19:44):
every piece with love. She made my coat of many
colors that I was so proud of. And again, like
you said, I mean, I just see this as here's
a girl. She doesn't have really a whole lot to
be proud of. She doesn't have a whole lot to
call her own. And her mom takes basically something, this
box of rags that other people might just discard or
(20:05):
consider nothing. And she takes uses her, you know, ingenuity
or skills to sew it together into an actual coat,
a patchwork coat, basically.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
And I think there's a beautiful metaphor about what God
does in our lives. He can take all these broken
parts and these ugly pieces and things that we're ashamed
of or things that other people would overlook and turn
it into something colorful and beautiful.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah. It also makes me think of like prayer shawls.
Like when my stepmom was going through treatments for lymphoma,
I ordered her, because I'm not skilled enough, because I
would love to be able to do this, but I
ordered her on Etsy. There was a woman who said
that she made prayer shawls for people going through chemotherapy
(20:58):
because you need something to kind of allow your arm
to be or your port to be free wherever your port,
I don't know. I think she had one in her chest.
But to also be able to drape it over to
keep you warm because the rooms tended to be kind
of cold. And she said that she's a Christian and
when she crochets these shawls, she prays with each stitch.
(21:21):
She prays for healing, for peace and all these different things.
And then she sends it kind of boxed up with this,
you know, hey, I prayed through this. Anyway, it talks
about she sewed the rags together, sewing every piece with love.
And she doesn't say that she prayed through sewing it,
but that's kind of, you know, something we can take
(21:41):
away as well is just kind of to be able
to do that with the things that we do for
our kids.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Yeah, to clothe in love. I think about this a
lot with food, like a meal infused with your love.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Oh, yeah. We've talked about that. Your process of when
you make the soup, kind of like infusing that with that.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Now, I guarantee you that some people listening heard your
story about Etsy and are saying to themselves, sister, you
got scammed. And I want to know your response to that.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I mean, realistically, I'm not buying like magic beans thinking
they're going to grow into a beanstalk in my stepmom's backyard,
you know, like. I'm glad that she did that. But
for me, it's the gesture to my stepmom of this
was made for you with love and prayer. But I'm praying,
(22:36):
you know, by proxy. I'm imparting my prayers onto that shawl.
And it's not magical. I don't think that giving her
a shawl that's been prayed over is any more effective
than me just, you know, buying one at Walmart and
shipping it to her. But for me, it was the
gesture to let her know that this is my intent
(22:57):
and this is what I'm doing for you is I'm
praying for you with every stitch in that quilt. And
I think that's, you know, whether that woman just said
that or not. I mean, it was in my budget.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah. How are we going to know? And yeah, I
wanted to bring that up because I knew that that
was going to be in some people's mind.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
But I'm glad you did because, yeah, because that is
an important thing. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
There are scammers out there who are going to say, like,
this is my magical, miraculous handkerchief that I prayed over,
and it's going to heal all of your ailments. Right.
And this shawl wasn't promising healing. No.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
It was basically— It was a gesture.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
A gesture of comfort and love. In my opinion, they're
very separate from a magic hanky that, you know, cures
your sickness miraculously. But— I'm going to put on my
hoity-toity Christian glasses too for this last line. I want
your opinion. It says, she made my coat of many
(23:55):
colors that I was so proud of. Hoity-toity Christian's going
to look at that and say, well, Dolly, why are
you putting on airs when you're so young? Why are
you proud of your coat? What do you say to that?
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I think God designed us to be proud. And we've
talked about it before that there's this really damaging theology
that pride is a bad word. And, you know, God
took pride in creation. He said, this is very good.
And he made us creative beings to be able to
(24:39):
create and to reflect his image in our creativity. And
we can be proud of that. It's different from being
materialistic and, and pride can become a sin. Obviously the
Bible says pride comes before the fall. Um, you know,
it can become sinful, but for her to be this
little girl who had nothing and then she had this
(25:02):
beautiful coat, she was probably proud of her mom for
being able to make it. She was probably proud to
be able to have something like that. And, um, I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
And it's something a lot of people would have been
ashamed of. They would have been ashamed to wear rags. Right.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Like a pieced together.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Yeah. So I really feel, and I know I've said
it before, like we need two different words for pride.
I think if we separated pride, we get rid of
the word pride and we either call it pleasure or arrogance.
I feel like that does exactly what we want it
to do and makes the distinction. I take pleasure in
(25:41):
my kids. I take pleasure in my writing. I take
pleasure in making a yummy pot of soup. I'm not
arrogant about those things. And Dolly is taking pleasure in this.
And it's beautiful. And I feel like if we remember
her kind of Appalachian roots, I think it adds depth
(26:02):
to it as well, right? Where even culturally, there's pride there.
There's pride that would allow or forbid someone from accepting charity,
but it wouldn't forbid them from wearing a coat their
mom made out of rags. And that's beautiful. And I
see the picture of the mom doing the exercept too.
(26:24):
It wasn't, let's try to hide the fact that these
are rags. Let me try to get the pieces that
are this close in color together as we can, or
something like that. It was, do you know what? This
is who we are. This is what we have. Let's
make it as beautiful as we can.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah. And let me finish. Let me read a couple
more verses because it finishes out the story very nicely
with what you said. So with patches on my britches
and holes in both my shoes, in my coat of
many colors, I hurried off to school just to find
the others laughing and making fun of me. In my
coat of many colors, my mama made for me. And oh,
I couldn't understand it for I felt I was rich.
(27:03):
And I told them of the love my mama sewed
in every stitch. And I told him all the story
Mama told me while she sewed and how my coat
of many colors was worth more than all their clothes.
But they didn't understand it.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
You're killing me. I know.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
I know. I'm sorry. I'm going to do the last verse,
bringing it home. But they didn't understand it. And I
tried to make them see that one is only poor
only if they choose to be. Now I know we
had no money, but I was rich as I could
be in my coat of many colors my Mama made
for me.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
I know. I'm tearing up.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
It killed me.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Okay. So, if we were going to... I'm going to
give you two options where you want to go from here.
If we want to turn this song and these lyrics
into a template for prayer or a template for worship,
which are you most leaning towards? And where would you go?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I mean, I'm just... I feel like Dolly brings it
home to worship.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Prayer, yeah, you could totally pray, but it's almost like
a praise. I mean, just for this little girl to
get that you're only as rich as your perspective.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah. One is only poor only if they choose to be.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yeah. And so, you know, I just kind of feel
like it's really a song of like reflecting praise back
to God for providing grace.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
When I am confronted with the question of what is
appropriate for a Christian to sing about, I always go
back to Psalms because there is, I might be over
speaking because I haven't thought through this as a thought exercise,
(28:52):
but I bet if I wanted to take some license,
you could throw at me any song that's ever been
written that has lyrics and And I could find you
a psalm that at least has similarities to it.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Even Mr. Crowley is asking questions about why he does
what he does and trying to pick apart what makes
him who he is. And the psalms do that too,
you know? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
You know, there are psalms, why do the wicked prosper? Right.
There are psalms, why do I want to take my
enemy's baby and bash its head against the rock? I
know that's grotesque. That is literally there in the psalms.
There's songs about human love and emotion and community and friendship.
(29:40):
And so that's why I am mistrustful of the philosophy
that says that in order to please God, it must
be sung to God. Because the Psalms themselves, yeah, a
lot of them are sung to God. A lot of
them are history retellings, which is kind of what I
see in The Code of Many Colors. It's a reminder
(30:03):
of where you were. There's a lot of psalms that
are straight up retelling of the story of Exodus. It's people,
this is where we were, and this is where we
came from. So stories about your family in song or
stories about the pleasure that a parent takes in their
child or a child takes in their parent, right? They're
(30:26):
all in Psalms, so they can all show up in
Christian music or in any music that we choose to
listen to.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
That's my opinion.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah. Well, I want to go somewhere slightly different. I
want to walk people through what I do when I
really want to meditate on a song through the Bible.
And so I will sometimes do this with like a
(30:52):
song that I'm going to be leading in church. And
I want it to be more meaningful than just, I've
said these lyrics dozens of times, so I know the song.
And I'm going to show you how to do it
even with a secular song. So I'm going to do
Light of a Clear Blue Morning. I've got this old NIV.
(31:13):
Some of you have heard my rants about how they
changed the NIV and it has very little to do
with like the actual new translation or the philosophy behind
the new translation. And everything to do with, I memorized
some of these passages a certain way, and I'm not
changing it up.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
And you can almost not find that version anymore.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
This was literally the last one. Because after we had
that conversation is when I'm like, you know what? I'm
just buying this. This was the last one on Amazon.
So sorry if you're looking for it. eBay still has some.
But the other thing I like about this specific Bible,
I believe it's the Zondervan Study Bible. And it's got...
very thorough cross references. So I'm going to show you
(31:57):
what I do with concordance and cross references when I
really want to meditate to the words to a song.
So the first line of the song says, it's been
a long dark night. And I'm going to pause right there.
And I'm going to go to my concordance and look
up either dark or night. And yes, I know that
there are digital concordances or even Google concordances. that would
(32:21):
do this way faster. And I have just decided that
there is something about slowing down and turning the pages
that helps it sink in for me. So this is
what I like to do. So I'm just going to
look up dark and I'm doing all of this on
the fly. So you're going to have to put up
with me while I flip pages. And then my Bible
(32:42):
has maybe like half a dozen verses that have the
word dark in it. And I'm going to go to
Romans 2.12, a light for those who are in the dark.
So I'm going to look up Romans 2.12. Sometimes Scott
and I call this Bible bingo. And I forget how
we got to bingo with it. But it's basically like,
(33:04):
you know, the game Six Degrees to Kevin Bacon.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
It's like this on really long car trips before like
audiobooks and everything. I used to have this Bible and
we would start with a random verse and see how
long we could cross-reference until we got to John 3.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
And that was just good.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
All right. So 2.12 says, if you are convinced that
you are a guide for the blind, a light for
those who are in the dark. And then I'm going
to go to my cross-reference for Romans 2. This one's
Romans 2.19. I think I started with a different verse.
But then basically it leads me to all kinds of
other verses. So I'm just popping back and forth. The
verses that I go to often have the same theme
(33:45):
because of kind of the keyword that I started with.
And I basically just go until I feel like I've
exhausted that thread. And then I go to the very
next line of the song and it says, I've been
waiting for the morning. So then I'm going to do
the exact same thing. I won't do it live for you,
but I'm going to go to my concordance and look
up morning. I'm going to find a verse listed in
(34:09):
the concordance that catches my eye. And no, I don't
feel like it's the Holy Spirit leading me to a
specific verse. I don't feel like there's a Holy Spirit
magic happening here. I feel like this is just a
fun way for me to interact with Scripture. I mean,
it is a little bit like a word hunt or
a scavenger hunt, you know? And then it also is
(34:32):
a way— I know that my brain works well when it
can make a lot of different connections.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yes, mine too.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
If I'm watching a Broadway musical and I think I
recognize somebody, I love going and being like, did I
see you in this? Oh, that's where I saw you from.
And making those connections helps me. It doesn't just scratch
an intellectual itch is what I'm saying. It truly helps
me feel like I am now oriented in this. And
so when I make these connections with my cross references,
(35:03):
maybe after this, I'll end up with having read three
to five different verses about the morning or the sun
or the light. And maybe one of them is really,
really going to speak to me. So I'm going to
cross-reference that one. And the next thing I know, I'm
going to be, you know, in psalms talking and my
next verse is going to have nothing to do with
(35:23):
this original Dolly song. And I'm going to be doing
psalms about protection. But I'm just kind of letting each,
it's like word association. I'm letting each verse take me
to another verse that takes me to another verse. And
it is really like, free association. And it's getting me interacting.
(35:44):
And I don't mean that figuratively, like I'm literally interacting
because that's why I like flipping the pages. I'm real
tactile that way. Interacting with scripture. I am literally like
walking my fingers through the pages of scripture and walking
my eyes through the pages of scripture. So I'm orienting
myself in this entire beautiful gift of a book that
God has given us. And so, yeah, I would just
(36:09):
really go line by line. And yeah, there's going to
be some lines where I'm going to be like, yeah,
I got nothing there. So maybe everything's going to be
all right that's been all wrong. Maybe I'm going to say, yeah,
that lyric doesn't do anything for me. So I'm just
going to go to the next one. And no, I
am not looking for God to mysteriously speak mysteries of
(36:30):
the universe to me through a Dolly Parton song. I'm
literally just using it as my base for finding out
more about God and spending more time with him in
his word. It's similar. This is another car trip game
my husband and I used to do. One of us
would start with a song and then the next person
(36:51):
would have to come up with another song that shared
a lyric with that song and we'd see how long
we could keep the chain going. And so it's like this,
how many Bible verses can I find that are inspiring
and uplifting just based off of this one song? I'll
tell you, it's a lot. And it was probably the
It's less than two years ago that Dolly Parton released
(37:13):
a new version of this song with a lot of singers.
And it's beautiful. And it's got this gospel choir. I
remember sending it to you. I listened to the whole thing.
And then I immediately texted it to you. And then
I immediately listened to it again because I knew that
that would mean that you and I were listening to
about the same part. And it got to the gospel choir.
And I'm like, she's going to love this part.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
It's really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
So please accept that as some listener homework as well
if you want some. So yeah, Dolly Parton, Light a
Clear Blue Morning. And yeah, let's just go ahead and
close with a reminder that if it's not sin, it
can be worshipped too. And that God is delighted when
we take every aspect of the human experience, even a
(37:59):
coat that your mom made out of rags, or a
song about a coat that your mom made out of rags,
or a television jingle, right? For people who want to
go way overboard, take a television jingle that you haven't
thought of in decades and see how that can lead
you to worship or to pray. That's the one other
aspect we hadn't talked as much about is what can
(38:23):
each line of a song or each phrase of a
song guide you to pray for? So think about a
jingle and be like, okay, what can I pray for
from this? Not because God infused a message subliminally for
you when that television jingle was invented, but because why not?
Everything can be a springboard for prayer.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
That needs to be a t-shirt. It's like gratitude.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
It's a little long for a t-shirt.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Anyone can cook. Well, everything can be a springboard for prayer.
That'll be our next t-shirt.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Perfect.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
All right.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Well, thanks everyone for listening. And I'll just close with
a God thank you for Dolly Parton and her light
and her music and We wish her family and her
loved ones joy and comfort. We wish her legacy to
be such a blessing to everyone. And I hope that
everyone listening is blessed and encouraged by whatever you put
(39:17):
on your playlist today. Amen.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
We'd like to take just a quick second to thank
the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us
on the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio.org, you will
find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network. They've
got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and so much more.
That's lifeaudio.com.
Life Audio. Hello, welcome to the Praying Christian Woman podcast.
I am Alana here with Jeannie. How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm good. How about you?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I am good slash heartbroken.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Yes, I was going to say, okay, yeah, good, but
not good.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yes, we are giving Miss Dolly Parton the Queen of
Country tribute in today's episode. And no, it's just not
going to be Jamie and me talking about how much
we love her, although there will, I'm sure, be.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Some of that.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
There is going to be a question, and that is,
can you take secular music and make it worshipful or
make it a template for prayer? But the heart of
it truly is we are both pretty sad at Dolly's
death and really admired her as an individual person. So
(00:58):
do you have a favorite Dolly story or something about
her that you just loved and adored?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
There are two things. So actually the first thing is
her imagination library. So she, for those that don't know
what that is, basically she grew up impoverished and they
didn't have access to a lot of things and including books.
And so she used some of her money to To
(01:25):
do this imagination library. So I didn't know what it
was until we had our first kid in 2006. And
in the hospital we were at, we got this thing.
And it's like, yeah, everybody gets the opportunity to enroll
in the imagination library, which they will send one book
a month, I believe.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
It was.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
From the time that baby is born until kindergarten, when
you get the kindergarten imagination library book. And it was... Basically,
the idea is that even for people, for kids whose
families are not going to take them to a library
or who can't afford access to books or whose families
(02:02):
would not think to get them books, they get books.
And it's to increase literacy. But it's not like you
have to meet a certain income level. It's for everyone
that signs up for it. It's incredible. And all of
our kids benefited from those books. We would have taken
them to the library and bought books, but all of those,
they're great books. So some of our favorite ones have
(02:22):
come from that collection, which is wonderful.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Do you have one in mind that you remember specifically
coming from them? I wish I did.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I haven't gone through them in a while to know
which ones, but yeah, I know that there were several
that are in our collection.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Wow. We did it too. It was always so exciting
to get those books in the mail. I remember when
we were asked if we wanted to sign up. I
think we were at the public library when they asked
us if we wanted to sign up. And I was like,
what's the catch? It was just so absurd to me
that there wasn't anything you had to do other than
be a child under the age of five. And reading
(03:02):
to my kids was the most special thing that I did.
with my children when they were young.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
So to have somebody who saw how important literature for
kids is and how beautiful picture books can be, I
wish it was more normalized for like just adults to
sit and read picture books to each other. I would
totally call you up on the phone and read you
a frog and toad book over Zoom or something, you know,
(03:34):
because they're beautiful and they're, They're sweet. And yeah, I
think really that's one of the things that made me
fall in love with Dolly was her imagination library.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Did I steal yours or do you have another one?
Speaker 1 (03:49):
What I have loved is since her passing, my entire
YouTube is literally nothing but Dolly tributes and Dolly songs.
And I don't listen to country music. So it's not
like this is my jam. What I am so struck by,
and I've known this about Dolly, but what really strikes
(04:11):
me is like two videos, one after another. One was
a Christian band paying a tribute to Dolly Parton. And
one was the Gay Men's Chorus of Los Angeles singing
a tribute to Dolly Parton. And this is not me
taking any stance on any controversial issue. This is me
saying it is beautiful to have one individual sing who
(04:32):
could unify and be respected and loved by so many
diverse people.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah. I think I shared it with you. There was
a meme that came through and it's like, basically, the
last human just beloved by everyone in the world has
just passed away because she bridged gaps. And She was just,
you know, the epitome of love and kindness and generosity
(05:00):
really is what it boiled down to. I saw a
post about Eminem posted a tribute to her, Marshall Mathers.
And she had written him a letter, like an email
saying congratulations for being inducted into the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame or whatever. And but just, you know.
She reached out to everyone. She didn't stay in her lane.
(05:23):
There was no lane.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
She had no lane.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
And that's Christ-like.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
My very favorite Dolly Parton song is not one of
the ones we're going to be talking about because we
are talking specifically about secular songs. But have you seen
her live version of He Is Alive?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
No, I have not.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
It is amazing. It's the song, you might recognize it.
It's a song sung usually on Easter from Peter's perspective.
And she has a version with it. And there's a
whole gospel choir behind her for the end. It's so powerful.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Oh, that's neat.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
So yeah, like my kids know her as the, he's
a live singer. That's their introduction. So I haven't failed
as a parent. I'm going to take that as my win.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Thank goodness. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
They don't know any Dolly Parton original songs, but they
know her, He's Alive. So that is your homework and
any listener homework is to go and listen to that.
So powerful.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I definitely will. I know the song you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, yeah. It's a powerful song no matter what. All right.
So today's episode, what we want to do is, first
of all, posit the question, can you worship God with
a secular song? And I want to be really careful.
Most people are going to assume, can you take a
love song and sing it to God? And this is
(06:50):
extremely beyond that. Like that's maybe like half of a
percent of what I'm talking about. I'm really asking the
question of, can a song that was not written to
be sung in church and not written by Christians and
not written to be sacred, be a worshipful experience or
a template for prayer or something that draws you to
(07:11):
the Lord?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Yeah, I actually had a conversation by messenger with a
former pastor who I don't live near anymore. But we
were just having the conversation about the song One Day
by Modest Yahoo, who at one point was a Hasidic Jew.
I don't believe he adheres to that faith anymore. Not
(07:35):
a Christian, not a Christian song. It is, for those
that don't know, it's basically a song about, you know,
one day there won't be war. What is it? There'll
be no more war. I can't even think of the,
and our children will play one day. So he did
this one rendition. There was a conductor who conducted One
(08:01):
Day by Modest Yahoo, and he had representatives of Palestinian
descent and Jewish descent. coming together, I think in Tel Aviv.
And they, you might've seen it. They basically trained them
over the course of a day to do these different parts.
And it was beautiful. Then at one point they're singing
(08:21):
in their own languages. It's like Arabic. And anyway, it was,
it was beautiful. And I, you know, it, when I
experienced that performance and, it wasn't just like chills. It
felt like the Holy Spirit feeling. And I just was
like kind of wrestling with, okay, how do, like, what
(08:44):
do I name this? Is there the Holy Spirit? Can
the Holy Spirit be present and active in something that's secular?
Because I know it's not Christian, but it talks about unity.
It's involving God's people. It's involving all people, you know?
And And I don't know. So I don't know how
to really put that into words, but we had kind
(09:06):
of a conversation about it and, you know, the difference
between the Holy Spirit and just positivity. The long and
the short of it is, I believe, I hope it
doesn't get taken in the wrong way, but when I
experience that song or sing that song, I experience the
Holy Spirit in a worshipful experience because it's a prayer
(09:28):
from me to God for peace and for justice. And it's,
so my short answer is yes.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, I would say so too. I think that if
we wanted to add qualifiers, we definitely could. But my
thought is, if it's not a sin to listen to
secular music, just blank, you know, I'm sure that everybody
can point to some songs that they're not going to
listen to for religious conviction. But in general, if we're
(10:10):
not going to make it a rule that every song
you listen to must be written by a Christian and
sung to God, then to me, it almost must follow
that it could be worshipful because we're supposed to make
everything worshipful. We are supposed to do everything for the
glory of God. So if it's not a sin, then
(10:32):
shouldn't it by definition be something that draws us closer
to the Lord? And let's also go ahead and add
that music itself, let's strip spirituality out of it. Some
music has transcendental power to it.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And that doesn't mean that if it's not of God,
it's of the devil. Sometimes it's just that God gave
us brains and bodies that respond to music in that way. So...
I think that there's definitely, you know, there's spiritual music.
There's probably what we could call neutral music. It's just
the music that you like to have on in the background.
(11:14):
And it's kind of passive. It's innocuous. It's not drawing
you closer to God or pulling you away from God.
Most people, like, do you have songs that you would
refuse to listen to for religious reasons and conviction?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
There are a couple. There are a couple that I
Don't like. I don't even know if I want to
go into it, but I kind of do.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
You don't have to. All right.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I kind of do.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I saw your eyes light up. Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I don't know how to. So, okay. I'm not going
to give the name just because I don't want to.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
But there is a song and the lyrics mention someone
who is known to be involved in the occult. And
It has an awesome guitar solo. I'm just going to
say it because it's Dear Mr. Crowley, okay?
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I've never heard of it.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
About Alistair Crowley, who was involved in the occult. And
apparently the song itself, I honestly, I have not analyzed
the lyrics, but apparently I have been told that it
is not condoning what he has done. But the fact
that it mentions his name, I don't like it being played.
(12:29):
I don't like it. And I've set that boundary. So
let's just say that. Even though it has a wicked
guitar solo, I do not like it.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Oh, I see what you did there. But I also
don't want my son playing it and have told him that.
So that is one line that I have drawn. I
think I'm way over what most people in terms of
what I'll let my kids listen to. Like I'm way more,
I know that there are many people who set lines
(12:59):
and boundaries a lot more, you know, like, oh, this band,
this whatever. And I haven't gone to those lengths, but
that is one of just a handful that I think
are sacrilegious. And I don't like being played for the content.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Well, there's something about music that lowers all of your
prefrontal defenses and so it is easier to be persuaded
by music it touches your emotions and your subconscious more
than just a lecture would there are some songs and
(13:38):
for me i distinguish it as just entirely personal conviction
some of it's personal conviction, but a big chunk of
it is just personal preference. Even like there were some
songs that I would say, I am not convicted that
it's a sin for me to listen to, but they
give me the heebie-jeebies, you know? One of them, You're
(13:58):
Gonna Laugh, but it's in Phantom of the Opera. And
it's like this very seductive sounding song. It's past the
point of no return. And most of the time I
skip it because I don't like it in my head
and it's kind of creepy and it leaves me feeling
kind of oppressed. I don't think the song's demonic. I
don't think it's wrong. If my son got to play
(14:19):
the phantom, I wouldn't forbid him from singing it. You know,
there's none of that to me. I just, it is
a personal preference that has a tiny bit of spiritual
heebie-jeebie element, but I would never go so far as
to say it's like sinful or something. So, you know,
if we can, agree that there are a lot of
(14:40):
songs that are neutral. They're not written for God. And
let's even say lyrically, right? Because an argument can be
made that any song that has lyrics that promote something
sinful could be sinful to some people to listen to.
That would be a stricter interpretation than what I ascribe to,
(15:01):
but I totally get why some people would say that.
So let's just even take all of those songs out
of the equation. if it's not talking about or condoning sin,
and it's also not like a praise song to Jesus,
and it's just in that neutral ground, it's, in my opinion,
not a sin issue whatsoever. So therefore, it could also
(15:25):
become a platform for prayer or a platform for worship.
And the human experience is Like we're meant to worship God,
but we're meant to do other things too. We're meant
to love others. We're meant to love our kids. So
I grew up listening to a ton of contemporary Christian
music in the 90s. I was there when there was
(15:47):
like a day, and I don't know if you were there.
There was a day that contemporary Christian music switched from,
we are a Christian band singing clean songs for Christian
listeners to music. We are worship bands singing songs to Jesus.
Do you remember that very big schism when it happened?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
I've never taken note of it like that, but I
can see what you're saying. We went from like big house, big,
big house where we can play football, you know, like
all the fun, just kind of like, let's just sing.
And then now it's worship bands like, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
And at the time, I loved it. I still like,
I love that we have really, in my opinion, we
have good contemporary music. And that came out of that.
But what it also did is it subtly reinforced in
us that there is a divide between what can be
music that honors God and everything else. Like Butterfly Kisses
(16:56):
was all over the Christian radio stations. And now... If
someone came out with the butterfly kisses, it would almost
be like, oh, we can't play this on a contemporary
Christian station because it's not just about God. It's about
a father who loves his daughter. And my question is like,
how is that also not part of the Christian experience?
(17:16):
You know what I mean? Yeah. But it can reinforce
this idea that if it's not sung to God, then
it's not real Christian music.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
So.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Let's take the Dolly Parton. What we did to give
all of you listening an example of what we're talking
about is we each chose a Dolly Parton song, and
we're going to go through some of the lyrics and, yeah,
ask ourselves, would I worship to this? Could I pray
to this? Could I make it a template for prayer?
So what did you choose for us?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
So I chose Coat of Many Colors. And like I
mentioned before, Dolly grew up in poverty, and she's talked
about this being one of her favorite songs because it's autobiographical.
And it's called Coat of Many Colors, and it's about
her mom using this box of just rags, basically, to
(18:13):
sew together a coat for her, and she kind of
parallels it. It's not Biblical at all, because she does
talk about her mom talking about a story from the Bible,
but in itself, it's autobiographical. So maybe I'm cheating a
little because it mentions the Bible.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
I don't think so. I think this is exactly what
I mean. Kind of like with Butterfly Kisses. Right. The
idea of a mother taking care of her daughter, clothing
her daughter.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
That's straight out of Proverbs 31.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
The idea of a mother making something beautiful, even if
she doesn't have a lot of resources, there is nothing
that in my mind we could say, oh, that's so,
so vain. Why are we listening to this secular song?
And so I would say like, and I'm going to
guess the majority of our listeners, I'm This could be
(19:02):
a neutral song, right? It's not a sin to listen
to this song. I want to take it one step further, though,
and say, well, can it actually bring us closer to
God to listen to this song? And I don't know
this song, so I'm kind of excited.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Yeah. Do you want me to read just the first
few verses? Or do you want me to read all
of them?
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Or maybe just spot check and stop when you get
to things that you want to draw out.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Okay. Yeah. So verse one. Back through the years I go,
wandering once again, back to the seasons of my youth,
I recall a box of rags that someone gave us
and how my mama put the rags to use. There
were rags of many colors and every piece was small
and I didn't have a coat and it was way
down in the fall. Mama sewed the rags together, sewing
(19:44):
every piece with love. She made my coat of many
colors that I was so proud of. And again, like
you said, I mean, I just see this as here's
a girl. She doesn't have really a whole lot to
be proud of. She doesn't have a whole lot to
call her own. And her mom takes basically something, this
box of rags that other people might just discard or
(20:05):
consider nothing. And she takes uses her, you know, ingenuity
or skills to sew it together into an actual coat,
a patchwork coat, basically.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
And I think there's a beautiful metaphor about what God
does in our lives. He can take all these broken
parts and these ugly pieces and things that we're ashamed
of or things that other people would overlook and turn
it into something colorful and beautiful.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah. It also makes me think of like prayer shawls.
Like when my stepmom was going through treatments for lymphoma,
I ordered her, because I'm not skilled enough, because I
would love to be able to do this, but I
ordered her on Etsy. There was a woman who said
that she made prayer shawls for people going through chemotherapy
(20:58):
because you need something to kind of allow your arm
to be or your port to be free wherever your port,
I don't know. I think she had one in her chest.
But to also be able to drape it over to
keep you warm because the rooms tended to be kind
of cold. And she said that she's a Christian and
when she crochets these shawls, she prays with each stitch.
(21:21):
She prays for healing, for peace and all these different things.
And then she sends it kind of boxed up with this,
you know, hey, I prayed through this. Anyway, it talks
about she sewed the rags together, sewing every piece with love.
And she doesn't say that she prayed through sewing it,
but that's kind of, you know, something we can take
(21:41):
away as well is just kind of to be able
to do that with the things that we do for
our kids.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Yeah, to clothe in love. I think about this a
lot with food, like a meal infused with your love.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Oh, yeah. We've talked about that. Your process of when
you make the soup, kind of like infusing that with that.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Now, I guarantee you that some people listening heard your
story about Etsy and are saying to themselves, sister, you
got scammed. And I want to know your response to that.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I mean, realistically, I'm not buying like magic beans thinking
they're going to grow into a beanstalk in my stepmom's backyard,
you know, like. I'm glad that she did that. But
for me, it's the gesture to my stepmom of this
was made for you with love and prayer. But I'm praying,
(22:36):
you know, by proxy. I'm imparting my prayers onto that shawl.
And it's not magical. I don't think that giving her
a shawl that's been prayed over is any more effective
than me just, you know, buying one at Walmart and
shipping it to her. But for me, it was the
gesture to let her know that this is my intent
(22:57):
and this is what I'm doing for you is I'm
praying for you with every stitch in that quilt. And
I think that's, you know, whether that woman just said
that or not. I mean, it was in my budget.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah. How are we going to know? And yeah, I
wanted to bring that up because I knew that that
was going to be in some people's mind.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
But I'm glad you did because, yeah, because that is
an important thing. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
There are scammers out there who are going to say, like,
this is my magical, miraculous handkerchief that I prayed over,
and it's going to heal all of your ailments. Right.
And this shawl wasn't promising healing. No.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
It was basically— It was a gesture.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
A gesture of comfort and love. In my opinion, they're
very separate from a magic hanky that, you know, cures
your sickness miraculously. But— I'm going to put on my
hoity-toity Christian glasses too for this last line. I want
your opinion. It says, she made my coat of many
(23:55):
colors that I was so proud of. Hoity-toity Christian's going
to look at that and say, well, Dolly, why are
you putting on airs when you're so young? Why are
you proud of your coat? What do you say to that?
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I think God designed us to be proud. And we've
talked about it before that there's this really damaging theology
that pride is a bad word. And, you know, God
took pride in creation. He said, this is very good.
And he made us creative beings to be able to
(24:39):
create and to reflect his image in our creativity. And
we can be proud of that. It's different from being
materialistic and, and pride can become a sin. Obviously the
Bible says pride comes before the fall. Um, you know,
it can become sinful, but for her to be this
little girl who had nothing and then she had this
(25:02):
beautiful coat, she was probably proud of her mom for
being able to make it. She was probably proud to
be able to have something like that. And, um, I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
And it's something a lot of people would have been
ashamed of. They would have been ashamed to wear rags. Right.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Like a pieced together.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Yeah. So I really feel, and I know I've said
it before, like we need two different words for pride.
I think if we separated pride, we get rid of
the word pride and we either call it pleasure or arrogance.
I feel like that does exactly what we want it
to do and makes the distinction. I take pleasure in
(25:41):
my kids. I take pleasure in my writing. I take
pleasure in making a yummy pot of soup. I'm not
arrogant about those things. And Dolly is taking pleasure in this.
And it's beautiful. And I feel like if we remember
her kind of Appalachian roots, I think it adds depth
(26:02):
to it as well, right? Where even culturally, there's pride there.
There's pride that would allow or forbid someone from accepting charity,
but it wouldn't forbid them from wearing a coat their
mom made out of rags. And that's beautiful. And I
see the picture of the mom doing the exercept too.
(26:24):
It wasn't, let's try to hide the fact that these
are rags. Let me try to get the pieces that
are this close in color together as we can, or
something like that. It was, do you know what? This
is who we are. This is what we have. Let's
make it as beautiful as we can.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah. And let me finish. Let me read a couple
more verses because it finishes out the story very nicely
with what you said. So with patches on my britches
and holes in both my shoes, in my coat of
many colors, I hurried off to school just to find
the others laughing and making fun of me. In my
coat of many colors, my mama made for me. And oh,
I couldn't understand it for I felt I was rich.
(27:03):
And I told them of the love my mama sewed
in every stitch. And I told him all the story
Mama told me while she sewed and how my coat
of many colors was worth more than all their clothes.
But they didn't understand it.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
You're killing me. I know.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
I know. I'm sorry. I'm going to do the last verse,
bringing it home. But they didn't understand it. And I
tried to make them see that one is only poor
only if they choose to be. Now I know we
had no money, but I was rich as I could
be in my coat of many colors my Mama made
for me.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
I know. I'm tearing up.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
It killed me.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Okay. So, if we were going to... I'm going to
give you two options where you want to go from here.
If we want to turn this song and these lyrics
into a template for prayer or a template for worship,
which are you most leaning towards? And where would you go?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I mean, I'm just... I feel like Dolly brings it
home to worship.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Prayer, yeah, you could totally pray, but it's almost like
a praise. I mean, just for this little girl to
get that you're only as rich as your perspective.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah. One is only poor only if they choose to be.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yeah. And so, you know, I just kind of feel
like it's really a song of like reflecting praise back
to God for providing grace.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
When I am confronted with the question of what is
appropriate for a Christian to sing about, I always go
back to Psalms because there is, I might be over
speaking because I haven't thought through this as a thought exercise,
(28:52):
but I bet if I wanted to take some license,
you could throw at me any song that's ever been
written that has lyrics and And I could find you
a psalm that at least has similarities to it.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Even Mr. Crowley is asking questions about why he does
what he does and trying to pick apart what makes
him who he is. And the psalms do that too,
you know? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
You know, there are psalms, why do the wicked prosper? Right.
There are psalms, why do I want to take my
enemy's baby and bash its head against the rock? I
know that's grotesque. That is literally there in the psalms.
There's songs about human love and emotion and community and friendship.
(29:40):
And so that's why I am mistrustful of the philosophy
that says that in order to please God, it must
be sung to God. Because the Psalms themselves, yeah, a
lot of them are sung to God. A lot of
them are history retellings, which is kind of what I
see in The Code of Many Colors. It's a reminder
(30:03):
of where you were. There's a lot of psalms that
are straight up retelling of the story of Exodus. It's people,
this is where we were, and this is where we
came from. So stories about your family in song or
stories about the pleasure that a parent takes in their
child or a child takes in their parent, right? They're
(30:26):
all in Psalms, so they can all show up in
Christian music or in any music that we choose to
listen to.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
That's my opinion.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah. Well, I want to go somewhere slightly different. I
want to walk people through what I do when I
really want to meditate on a song through the Bible.
And so I will sometimes do this with like a
(30:52):
song that I'm going to be leading in church. And
I want it to be more meaningful than just, I've
said these lyrics dozens of times, so I know the song.
And I'm going to show you how to do it
even with a secular song. So I'm going to do
Light of a Clear Blue Morning. I've got this old NIV.
(31:13):
Some of you have heard my rants about how they
changed the NIV and it has very little to do
with like the actual new translation or the philosophy behind
the new translation. And everything to do with, I memorized
some of these passages a certain way, and I'm not
changing it up.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
And you can almost not find that version anymore.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
This was literally the last one. Because after we had
that conversation is when I'm like, you know what? I'm
just buying this. This was the last one on Amazon.
So sorry if you're looking for it. eBay still has some.
But the other thing I like about this specific Bible,
I believe it's the Zondervan Study Bible. And it's got...
very thorough cross references. So I'm going to show you
(31:57):
what I do with concordance and cross references when I
really want to meditate to the words to a song.
So the first line of the song says, it's been
a long dark night. And I'm going to pause right there.
And I'm going to go to my concordance and look
up either dark or night. And yes, I know that
there are digital concordances or even Google concordances. that would
(32:21):
do this way faster. And I have just decided that
there is something about slowing down and turning the pages
that helps it sink in for me. So this is
what I like to do. So I'm just going to
look up dark and I'm doing all of this on
the fly. So you're going to have to put up
with me while I flip pages. And then my Bible
(32:42):
has maybe like half a dozen verses that have the
word dark in it. And I'm going to go to
Romans 2.12, a light for those who are in the dark.
So I'm going to look up Romans 2.12. Sometimes Scott
and I call this Bible bingo. And I forget how
we got to bingo with it. But it's basically like,
(33:04):
you know, the game Six Degrees to Kevin Bacon.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
It's like this on really long car trips before like
audiobooks and everything. I used to have this Bible and
we would start with a random verse and see how
long we could cross-reference until we got to John 3.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
And that was just good.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
All right. So 2.12 says, if you are convinced that
you are a guide for the blind, a light for
those who are in the dark. And then I'm going
to go to my cross-reference for Romans 2. This one's
Romans 2.19. I think I started with a different verse.
But then basically it leads me to all kinds of
other verses. So I'm just popping back and forth. The
verses that I go to often have the same theme
(33:45):
because of kind of the keyword that I started with.
And I basically just go until I feel like I've
exhausted that thread. And then I go to the very
next line of the song and it says, I've been
waiting for the morning. So then I'm going to do
the exact same thing. I won't do it live for you,
but I'm going to go to my concordance and look
up morning. I'm going to find a verse listed in
(34:09):
the concordance that catches my eye. And no, I don't
feel like it's the Holy Spirit leading me to a
specific verse. I don't feel like there's a Holy Spirit
magic happening here. I feel like this is just a
fun way for me to interact with Scripture. I mean,
it is a little bit like a word hunt or
a scavenger hunt, you know? And then it also is
(34:32):
a way— I know that my brain works well when it
can make a lot of different connections.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yes, mine too.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
If I'm watching a Broadway musical and I think I
recognize somebody, I love going and being like, did I
see you in this? Oh, that's where I saw you from.
And making those connections helps me. It doesn't just scratch
an intellectual itch is what I'm saying. It truly helps
me feel like I am now oriented in this. And
so when I make these connections with my cross references,
(35:03):
maybe after this, I'll end up with having read three
to five different verses about the morning or the sun
or the light. And maybe one of them is really,
really going to speak to me. So I'm going to
cross-reference that one. And the next thing I know, I'm
going to be, you know, in psalms talking and my
next verse is going to have nothing to do with
(35:23):
this original Dolly song. And I'm going to be doing
psalms about protection. But I'm just kind of letting each,
it's like word association. I'm letting each verse take me
to another verse that takes me to another verse. And
it is really like, free association. And it's getting me interacting.
(35:44):
And I don't mean that figuratively, like I'm literally interacting
because that's why I like flipping the pages. I'm real
tactile that way. Interacting with scripture. I am literally like
walking my fingers through the pages of scripture and walking
my eyes through the pages of scripture. So I'm orienting
myself in this entire beautiful gift of a book that
God has given us. And so, yeah, I would just
(36:09):
really go line by line. And yeah, there's going to
be some lines where I'm going to be like, yeah,
I got nothing there. So maybe everything's going to be
all right that's been all wrong. Maybe I'm going to say, yeah,
that lyric doesn't do anything for me. So I'm just
going to go to the next one. And no, I
am not looking for God to mysteriously speak mysteries of
(36:30):
the universe to me through a Dolly Parton song. I'm
literally just using it as my base for finding out
more about God and spending more time with him in
his word. It's similar. This is another car trip game
my husband and I used to do. One of us
would start with a song and then the next person
(36:51):
would have to come up with another song that shared
a lyric with that song and we'd see how long
we could keep the chain going. And so it's like this,
how many Bible verses can I find that are inspiring
and uplifting just based off of this one song? I'll
tell you, it's a lot. And it was probably the
It's less than two years ago that Dolly Parton released
(37:13):
a new version of this song with a lot of singers.
And it's beautiful. And it's got this gospel choir. I
remember sending it to you. I listened to the whole thing.
And then I immediately texted it to you. And then
I immediately listened to it again because I knew that
that would mean that you and I were listening to
about the same part. And it got to the gospel choir.
And I'm like, she's going to love this part.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
It's really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
So please accept that as some listener homework as well
if you want some. So yeah, Dolly Parton, Light a
Clear Blue Morning. And yeah, let's just go ahead and
close with a reminder that if it's not sin, it
can be worshipped too. And that God is delighted when
we take every aspect of the human experience, even a
(37:59):
coat that your mom made out of rags, or a
song about a coat that your mom made out of rags,
or a television jingle, right? For people who want to
go way overboard, take a television jingle that you haven't
thought of in decades and see how that can lead
you to worship or to pray. That's the one other
aspect we hadn't talked as much about is what can
(38:23):
each line of a song or each phrase of a
song guide you to pray for? So think about a
jingle and be like, okay, what can I pray for
from this? Not because God infused a message subliminally for
you when that television jingle was invented, but because why not?
Everything can be a springboard for prayer.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
That needs to be a t-shirt. It's like gratitude.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
It's a little long for a t-shirt.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Anyone can cook. Well, everything can be a springboard for prayer.
That'll be our next t-shirt.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Perfect.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
All right.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Well, thanks everyone for listening. And I'll just close with
a God thank you for Dolly Parton and her light
and her music and We wish her family and her
loved ones joy and comfort. We wish her legacy to
be such a blessing to everyone. And I hope that
everyone listening is blessed and encouraged by whatever you put
(39:17):
on your playlist today. Amen.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
We'd like to take just a quick second to thank
the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us
on the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio.org, you will
find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network. They've
got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and so much more.
That's lifeaudio.com.
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